Small brain: "META is life" Big brain: "META gives you an idea of what's good but it's not a requirement" Giga brain: "META is horseshit, just use what classes you like and are familiar with" Galaxy brain: "Get world first with classes known as the worst by meta standards multiple times in a row"
What really gets me is the crap i hear some people say to new players when they are trying to learn a job, just a couple of days ago somebody was asking about tips to play Glad/PLD and one of the response was "PLD is trash, get it to 60 then switch to Gunbreaker and never look back." It's no wonder i see sprouts wondering if they should ditch their jobs for "Meta" ones when they sometimes get "Advice" like that.
Hahahahaha, thats so good, whoever gave that tip to that sprout must be a master of his class. I wonder if he's one of those Gunbreakers who always try's to fight for the aggro in those funny little random raids, to just loose to my pally every single time even without using provoke :3 Paladin is awesome, ESPECiALLY for Sprouts. Nonthereless, each class can and will be awesome.. alsong as u like playin it and have FUN with it. Tellin someone to play one class to a specific lvl and then switch to another just to forget about it defeats the whole point of the game
I always hated the 'meta' in any game. I like playing what I find fun. I perform better on it than any other character/class/job/whatever if it's fun. If I play something just to 'fill the meta' then I perform generally worse. Or if the class/character/whatever is braindead, then I'm just bored, which sometimes affects my performance too.
It just depends on what you find fun. A more "casual" player (for lack of a better term) finds fun in the gameplay itself while a more competitive player finds dominating the competition to be fun. So a competitive player is more likely to push the meta, while the casual player just plays what they want most of the time.
Also depends on the game. When I used to play World of Warships Hurricane clan wars (top of the ladder) if you took certain ships you would just lose no matter how good at the game you were. The meta wasn’t static but it was very ossified because Lesta can’t balance. There was a point where destroyers almost disappeared as a class and the only Battleship you saw was the Russian top tier one. In FF14 the balance is butter, meaning different classes can all contribute.
Had this problem on Week 1 of 5.2 savage. I cleared E5S on SCH on my first day and on the next day I was looking for people on PF to prog further on E6S. I didn't know this but the lead locked out SAM and MCH. Someone joined in as DRG and switched to SAM. The leader had a fit and they swapped back to DRG. There were issues in the fight and the dps said they aren't used to DRG and would rather play SAM and it started an argument between the entire party against the lead+his friend about how SAM doesn't bring anything for the party. Needless to say I left to clear that week with other parties and avoided that player for the entirety of the tier. I got my E8S clear some weeks in and this guy was still on PF for weeks looking for people to help him clear.
@@WeskAlber That kinda how the game balancing work in my opinion. Dps class is on a scale of Utility vs DPS. SAM doesn't have utility per say but they bring more damage than others and as such profit more of other class ''utility''. The whole point of SAM and BLM IMO, when it comes to party balance is that they do enough damage so you can't just ignore that not having them is a DPS loss/Speed loss, but at the same time utility is important enough so you can't just take 3 or 4 SAM/BLM and call it a day. A class ''spot'' in the meta really just depend on your team composition. SAM can easily be top tier DPS as long as there a DNC or BRD to support them, and SAM can drop in tier if it lacks other classes to support it. In all cases, as long as you have 2 tanks, 2 healer, 1-2 ''support'' oriented dps and 2-3 ''damage'' oriented dps you can be #1 in 90% of the raids fights.
@@magikazam8430 The issue is very simple: Yes, SAM has no raid utility, it just does massive amounts of damage. But what is raid utility in the context of melee classes? Unless I am very mistaken, no melee class has any "utility" that applies to the entire raid that is NOT a damage boost. Trick Attack, DRG's buffs, all of those are pure damage buffs right? So how can people talk about 'Oh no this brings no utility' when any other melee you could bring is the same, and you have to weigh up personal vs raid dps anyway (where SAM, if I am not entirely mistaken, is still very much top tier despite not increasing other DPS' damage)? The biggest utility any dps brings to the raid is RDM/SMN raises, and I guess ranged classes' mitigation tools, but I've rarely heard people call MCH or BRD meta outside of specific fights like Wesk mentions in this video?
I play jobs in this like characters in fighting games. They might not be the "best" but you're more likely to learn and do well with something that clicks with you and you enjoy than struggling with anything else.
If you like a job, you'll get good at it. I started out as a Warrior and quickly got overwhelmed, even switching to dps for a while. And I wasn't a good tank either, only partially because I was just starting out. I didn't update my gear often enough, I didn't use cool downs, and when mechanics started happening, I got flustered and wanted to help and wouldn't stay put with the boss. And then I unlocked Dark Knight. I loved the story of the quests so much that to bypass my tankxiety I leveled it to 50 just through levemetes and fates. And then when I finished the level 50 quest, I wanted *so badly* to get more of the story, but I knew at that point if I kept doing the same stuff, I would level it too slowly and I would get impatient. So I started taking it into roulettes, and what do you know! The more I played, the better I got! I enjoyed it so much I *wanted* to get better at it, and not because it felt like an obligation to other players so that I would be less of an inconvenience. I still hesitate to call myself a *good* tank, instead I tell people that I am simply *a* tank. I'm equipped with the best gear I can get my hands on, I know when to use my cooldowns and how to space them out, and I've gotten much better at keeping the boss still and pointed away from the party. I don't know, I just figure if a goober like me can get the hang of it, anyone can play any job they feel like playing if they want it badly enough.
I guessed "They probably just liked to play Dark Knight" and I'm pretty happy I was right. Two years later, this video still holds pretty well true. "The best" choice is often hyperfocused, even when even the "worst" choice within a class role is still entirely viable and can clear any of the game's content perfectly fine. If someone can play a class well, they can take it anywhere. FFXIV isn't like a fighting game where some character matchups involve one side being at a distinct disadvantage.
Thank you for this. I wish the community would get behind this idea. My last static was ruined by this mindset, all the fun was sucked out of it and it turned into a constant refrain of "but the meta, but the meta..." I got so tired of it. It's a game, fun should be what matters. Maybe chasing the meta is fun for some, but it's keeping a lot of players out of raiding.
We finally started practicing for UwU recently and honestly seeing this was a really reassuring. We're running it with jobs that we enjoy and we hope to get a clear eventually. Love your vids and looking forward to more!
Like DRG and SMN and I doubt I'll ever stop playing either of them, unless they remove bahamut from SMN but I'm pretty sure that'll never happen. (I just really love dragons)
I really like spears so I chose Lancer/Dragoon as my main simple as that. I've never really cared about meta and when I had doubts about Dragoon you taught me otherwise. Thanks for that and for this passionate video!
I'm personally not that interested in spears, to me they look lame. But I saw someone practising on a training dummy and thought all the cool explosions and colour changes and different motions they were doing was really cool, so I wanted to try it out.
Basically: meta doesn't matter a whole lot and the gao between classes is easily filled by player skill and experience with their favoured class, play what you want and have fun with and you'll do just fine.
Hey man, thanks for posting this. I haven’t played since 2.2 and it’s refreshing to know that I won’t have to meet someone by a training dummy just to get into a raid group.
Other healers find whm boring, but I personally find the OP heals and lilies loads of fun. Theres more to the WHM utlility than Stone and Aereo, which is what other healers complain about. Those two spells.
I decided I'd main Samurai long before I could afford to play the game, at a point where discussing Samurai generally got me the answer that it was kind of trash. While it was nice to learn that Samurai was a beast now, a good ways into the game, I'd already fallen in love with the job for its aesthetic and the sheer delight of how it plays. And hell, in GW2 I learned Raiding on a Reaper, a Spec laughed out of any PuG, because I loved the spec and was good enough at it to squeeze sufficient DPS. In a good game, if you love something then chances are you're good enough at it to do high tier content with it. I wish more people understood that.
Oh boy, I remember when r/Guildwars2 had a meltdown after some Reaper Main popped up after every single balance patch for a while and threw out a DPS check video, proving his check was better than the "bESt dPs clASS" at the time.
I main Necromancer on GW2, and I remember the days when Reapers could be both dps and tanks with a goddamn broken toughness build combined with death magic, soul reaping, and reaper trait lines. Was it meta? Nope. Did people on LFG ask for it? Hell no, Chrono Tank was already the favorite child. But did I have fun playing as a Tank with dozens of minions taking damage for me? You bet on it.
Sadly proves my point at the end where i sadly say "they will never be convinced." Happy to have gotten a lot of agreement, including one from TEA's Top 1 5.3 DNC but man... how do you still refuse to listen with all the proof ever?
@@WeskAlber people hate being proven wrong, that stubbornness is amplified when the thing being challenged is the basis of their view in life (from something as big as religion, to something as small as their mindset when consuming entertainment). This is even made worse if they are, or see themselves as, figures of authority in their field.
@@EvilDickism Yeah you aren’t missing much anymore unfortunately 😅 It’s just a money hole now. Micro transactions everywhere 😕 Hopefully things get better for it in the future :)
aww..My poor redmage didnt even make the list..let alone a mention LOL I love my redmage almost as much as I love your channel! great video man! keep up the great work keeping us informed and educated!
I did mention RDM like ONCE but in general, yeah. RDM is Progression meta only. Once a group clears a fight for the first time, they can swap out the RDM for something stronger. But again... Speed Meta is so tight that you can do basically any comp and be competitive
It isn't the class/job, its the player. Play what you love, have fun, win. Having fun is the ultimate win. Love your channel and guides. TY for your work.
Thanks for this! As a Savage raider that has started with Eden I had my fair share of "Meta" statics. I main DNC and heard a lot about how I do too less damage and should work on it more without even thinking about what the problem could be. That almost ruined the class for me until the leader of my new static explained it to me, how the rotation works, what to do when if possible... Looking back I was forced to meta-play when I had no idea at all what I even was doing. Now that I have learned to love the DNC I have more fun than ever! The best gear and food can give you firepower and stats but if you don't know how to handle those and loose your fun while doing so it has no use to have them whatsoever. Have fun playing a class! That's the best way of learning and loving it.
I love this video, even more in the context of the pretty lack-luster buff they just gave SCH in 5.4. Thanks for re-focusing me on the point of this game; the quote from the DRK in the world-first UCoB clear resonated with me, "because it's fun". Also, I'm always blown away by how well-balanced this game is. The differences between viability of jobs (at basically every level of play) is so small, which is refreshing coming from other games where that is absolutely not the case.
Good breakdown! I really appreciate the effort people have gone through to debunk the myth that has been around since Heavensward raiding that people should only play "Meta" classes and anything else is garbage. I remember Stormblood MCH...I enjoyed Stormblood MCH...but good god was it worse than BRD...still cleared pretty much everything with it. Same with Stormblood RDM.
As the dnc in the TEA rank 1 speed group, I'd like to give a shoutout to the rank 1 speed team from 5.2 since they are WAY faster than we are. That can really only be accomplished with their specific comp and played extremely well. But yeah TL;DR play whatever you want
Oh wow yeah... I didn't realize FFlogs started doing that. Last time I genuinely dug into rankings before this video... they didn't separate patches individually, only by tier because of ilvl increases. I feel bad about that now even if it doesn't change that much imo.. Grats on being a solid team but also I think you further prove my point even if that comp is so much more godly.... they were 40 seconds ahead of 2nd. That's not just comp there. If it was purely comp alone, any of you speedrunners could get similar times with just merely using their comp. That big a difference in speed is pure domination that SKILL gets you. Applying the comp of a team THAT far ahead of even 2nd place is just silly and still remains my point. But thank you for your comment as someone much more qualified to talk by pure skill evaluations
@@WeskAlber I'd be really curious to see if someone can emulate their time with a comp running the same roles. We were about 3% off a dps check that we might have been able to do with a melee over our brd but that's all guesswork.
Yeah I wanna know if you can push that kinda stuff with any other comps. But even with the same comp that seems like such a stretch to replicate. That's just so brutal
Late comment but you know, for the algorithm - I love your take on this topic and argument style, especially respect for pointing out new data that maybe contradicts the point you make to an extent, but not really if you understand that META changing makes META meaningless. This concept applies to many games, for example I play Lance in Monster Hunter, which is maybe the least liked weapon but I perform way better than most people because I love the job and practice and master it. Same with FFXIV, I out dps people all the time with Dancer because I know the fight, am comfortable with the moveset and keep high uptime. Skill comes from practice, and practice is easy when you love what you play
I'm a player who has interest in trying Ultimate but has absolutely no patience to deal with jerks. And so far I haven't had any luck finding non-jerks to try Ultimate with. Heck, many times I ended up having to do even Savage with jerks, due to "luck of the draw" in PF. :/
In WoW I was an altaholic and by the end of Cataclysm I had at least one max level character of every class. Currently in FFXIV I have 10 80 jobs on my main (and everything else except BLU is 71 or higher) - I really enjoy the versatility. I really haven't ever studied the meta.
To be fair, there are definitely games/patch cycles where the meta really does matter, and it can be hard to let go of that mentality for some people, for a multitude of different reasons. But yes, this video is spot on and well said =)
I'm glad to see this, it makes me happy. I'm no push over in the game but i have had times that people didnt want me as a class i was playing or putting all the weight on my shoulders do to the fact i was suppose to be TOP tier. Anyways, im glad to see im not alone on this subject.
For the longest time I've thought Meta meant something that you're good at or good with. I had no idea people were blaming job itself even after producer himself told people otherwise.
Nope, meta has specific meanings depending on the context. In context of 14, it's always power... and power means nothing without the skill to wield it
Truly fascinating, and well put together, the information here is well compiled and gives and neat view into the raid scene of FFXIV of which l have since long retired from due to work and family. It's only ever been about fun for me, if any one group had a problem with a class l was playing in a raid, l would personally leave and not waste my time with them. The game is not so terribly balanced that any job is a negative presence in any content, its down to personal bias and how other players 1) believe it and 2) how others players let those biases dictate their static or raid preferences. If a consensus is that a job is a minis to your goal, progression or speed, then you can't beat collective stupidity and it's best you try elsewhere. Eden's Promise may draw me in again, but something generally comes up to stop any prog time beyond Normal. l look forward to watching and hearing about the new tier. Again, a very nice video.
My main issue, the part where I kinda sound angry, is people were banning these jobs in PARTY FINDER. You know, the system with 0 vetting and doesn't guarantee you any good players because you aren't Trialing them for a static? Like, if a leader is forcing a specific comp, that's fine as long as they're honest about that from the outset. It's still dumb because unless the players they recruit are good to begin with the comp won't matter. But that's their right as raid lead when advertising for a static that they have to play with for the next months/years/whatever time. A PARTY FINDER for casual content that they'll never see any of the members of again? Ah yes, let's block the people that will carry my loser ass because they're better than me.... from CASUAL CONTENT like ok i guess?
@@WeskAlber Yeah ok, it'll be ok no problem lol SE sought of perpetuated this though with the implementation of Job exclusion in the PF did'nt they? It's the detriment of the player organising the PF raids if they choose to engage meta biases. Move on and find what is generally more open minded people I suppose.
@@Elessar2417 The PF filters are more for having a decent comp on itself. "We already have a BLM, we don't want 2 BLMs so we can generate LB, so restrict the other slots to not allow BLM."
i did not explain it formally but "progression meta" is the optimal strats to clear the fight for the first time. Speed meta is best strats for fast clears
To elaborate a bit more, Progression Meta is basically about how safe you can be, which is why RDM (and to a lesser extent SMN) are so strong in it - raises on characters that aren't healers, and in RDM's case specifically that can be instantly casted much more often than healers could, for example. You're likely not going to make a world record speed-clear if you need to raise often enough for that to matter, so utility like this takes a backseat to pure damage if you just need the fight to be over as quickly as humanly possible after having learned all the mechanics inside and out.
It takes more skill to break molds and existing compositions. Truly the best probably have the most open mind. When having a "handicap", the outplay is even sweeter. (Saying as a reformed elitist jerk turned filthy casual)
Breaking the mold here is almost all singular seconds which basically just comes down to crits lol. But yeah, the top players don't need to conform and yet people ignore that they don't. This isn't the age of HW where it was just THAT broken. Hating people for playing a specific job is just stupid no matter how you look at it. Especially when it's always the filthiest casuals doing it
Coming from speed running, something with this much variation and player choice is nowhere near optimized enough for any one particular class to just be the best.
I've been a RDM main since Stormblood came out. I played other jobs to fill the gaps between patches as was required from previous statics (DRK and NIN during SB, MCH during E5S-E7S), but every time I could I went back to RDM. It wasn't because it's good during prog. It was because I've loved the idea of a mage knight since I was a kid. Now that I've been able to go back to RDM since we progged E8S, not only am I having more fun than with the previous fights, I'm also performing better. People really just need to learn a very simple lesson: Play what you enjoy and makes you happy and you'll play much better than if you play a job just because it's meta.
I chose LNC/DRG as my starter job, just finished Heavensward and started Dragonsong picking up DNC, DRK, MCH and GNB along the way, I just play whatever job I feel comfortable with and know I'll have fun with. If I'm playing a dungeon I don't have to dance around the boss to avoid AoE attacks I'll play Dragoon, if I need to move around so much I can't get my full rotation off, I'll play Dancer because I can get a rotation off while on the move and at range
As a Monk main, I know I'll never beat out a Samurai in terms of pure damage, but dps is still and the raid wide utility just outweights the 5-10%(or so I haven't done the math) damage difference. I like the class, i like the challenge it brings, and lord knows if i ever do Ultimates its going to be on Monk. I just hope they don't mess too much with it.
I played monk since the start of heavensward, until the start of Shadowbringers. ShB completely ruined monk for me. I find it almost unrecognisable to what it used to be. Hopefully 5.4 brings the job back a good spot.
I only recently played Monk, and before 5.4 I didn't like it all that much mostly because of the Greased Lightning mechanic. After 5.4 however, I dare say it's become my favorite Melee class, even over Samurai and Ninja, purely because of how fast it consistently plays and it's mechanics.
wonderful video. my friends just started raiding last tier and they do nothing but dogpile on some jobs as if they're a hindrance to a party, so thanks for this lol
In a vacuum, with all things being equal meta wins out, but even the top 0.10% of players aren't robots and having even the most minor deviations in play can lead to sweeping differences in clear times/composition effectiveness etc. Then there are also tons of different nuanced strats for different comps on different fights. This is why, even though there actually is a meta, it doesn't really matter at all, and the only people who obsess over it are players stuck in PF 99% of the time, because they think they'll finally the clear with the "right setup".
I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for the last 8 years on and off and that game has shown me why metas develop. The short answer is, if you don't extensively hold someone's hand then they will never learn how to DPS. So any encounter that relies on people being good at DPS basically creates a huge wall between normal MMO players and serious MMO raiders. It's also why the worst players are usually pigeon-holed into playing healers in a lot of MMOs. (The better the DPS is at their job, the easier the healer's job becomes.)
@@WeskAlber FF14 solves the problem of “bring the player not the class(job)” by making most DPS/healers/tanks interchangeable. My point was though that historically raiding in MMOs is something that casual groups have an extremely difficult time clearing.If I were to quantify skill levels a casual player normally doesn’t even have 1/10th the skill level of a serious raider (and this is mostly in regards to DPS). Metas are usually developed by high skill raiders to speed clear raids, but are pressed by the community as basically recipes for increasing the simple probability that a group will be able to clear a raid at all. In other words, usually in MMOs, and maybe this mentality carries over to FF14, people don’t trust other people to know what they are doing so they require that they copy the pros.
@@xxJing gw2 player (quit). i like meta because it has a standard to drive towards. i often find meta folks to be 10x better than non metas. pugs run selfish builds, with little to no utility, and hardly dodge relying on healing. blind meta are usually worse but going as a support cancels it out. when i went pure dmg warrior i got laughed at for going down ( no help at all), i had to stop playing how i wanted to play and range so i wouldn't be dead weight. unsurprisingly they hit a wall while i went way beyond what stopped them (I went with more team players). when they found out i went to higher levels than them they thought i was just being carried but somehow we went in together and noticed how smooth it went. the frequent invites were annoying when you become a guaranteed good slot. I still prefer guardian for pugs and smoother runs, but hooo boy so many people want a good guardian. players really need to learn to be more adaptive. you should still play what you find fun but realize you might also need to change up a little for the mission. I never played ff14 but it sounds quite balanced where its more how you want to do it + player skill vs this is just needed.
@@zeosummers3984 To summarize how ff14 works, each class has a single role and there are no specs. A samurai does melee DPS and only melee DPS and he does it one way. Also whether you play a samurai, a ninja, a dragoon, or a monk matters very little. They all do roughly the same dps and have roughly the same capabilities. They do have a different play experience though. In ff14 the meta probably only differs in seconds as to how fast you can clear an encounter. However, my point of this post was basically just to show where the meta mindset stems from which is that metas are created by high level raiders to maximize raiding efficiency. And in most MMOs, the average player just doing whatever they want is so prone to failure that the raiding community basically adopts the high level meta as a requirement in hopes that it will increase the chance of raids being cleared. In FF14 in particular it doesn’t matter. While you still can maximize efficiency, the game basically holds your hand into playing effectively to the point where being Meta or just having a set of random high level gear doesn’t really matter much unless you are going for speed clears / raid sales. I have noticed that it does suffer from some players still not being able to DPS effectively though, which is usually the biggest reason for failure in other MMOS such as GW2.
Fun. It’s the reason I play the game. Any game. For the record, I too think Dark Knight is Fun! Share the love for the dark tank. As for UCoB and other such nightmarish bosses. Never tried them before. After all this time I might actually be brave enough to try. In short, a job is what you make of it. Thank you for the interesting video. Stay safe. ❤️
I've never been one too upset over meta, despite being a WAR main and wanting it to be higher on the list dps-wise. I had no problem getting a party with 4 black mages thru E8s. What I do have issues with is scrubs going into end game content with no clue, unmelded gear, no food etc.
Another reason why I'd wager dragoons are so popular is that... Well... Dragoons are just badass. Which means many people will gravitate to playing them. What other game lets you turn into a spiky, lance-wielding ballistic missile, harnessing the power of ancient wyrms?
In terms of a meta, how a job looks isn't even factored. Game as a whole sure. But when we're talkin the best jobs for killing stuff, numbers are coming first.
@@WeskAlber well, yes. But what I mean is that there will simply be more people who play dragoon because of that, which means that there's a larger pool for the hardcore ones to come from
Bruh...I liked all of them, with tanks. I started with pld, definitely most defensive of the 4 for ME. Gnb is flashy, it is good, must be the most balanced with offense and defense. Drk got a lot of ogcd, which i like as well. But war's burst though. War is the last tank i'm leveling up now and i like it.
So it kind of seems like the game is so balanced that your knowledge of your job and how much you've practiced playing the game is more important than the job you're playing
Just today someone new in my FF14 group said he love how DNC play but damage is low so he is not hoping for endgame content... I have to educate him about raid DPS, utility and tell him all team composition is viable.
Dude, on the OF I would argue to hell and back for Stormblood DRK being a good tank. I argued against the masses that claimed the job was in a poor, even unacceptable state. Nevermind that DRK was actually capable of DPS to be on par with (and even surpass) PLD, or that it had superior mitigation than WAR, all anybody looked at was the lack of an AoE mitigation option and lack of a way to beat knockbacks (nevermind well timed plunges existed.) Sadly, the masses won in the end, because DRK was stripped of it's unique, fast paced, high-apm style of sustained damage in exchange for becoming a literal WAR clone. I 100% agree the meta has little to do with success, but sometimes loud voices win over reason.
i chose machinist and stuck with it after trying every job to level cap. its what i enjoy playing the most...sadly even the group im in would rather have a dancer like most groups...but im not goign to change what i enjoy just because someone else wants me too....if you dont take me as a MCH then i will find a different group end of story.
I main Drg and Drk an it never slowed me down. Some partys would lock out my class, but a good drk will surpass a mediocre war. War was just so boring an easy. The prejudice is gone now in shadowbringers. I even cleared Tea with 2 physical ranged. Given we had alot of 1% enrages we still got 17 clears an even a decent kill time due to high cleave dmg in the first two phases. You mentioned Drg is #1 melee in tea, it's because of the two target phases. - Crystal Cryo of Midgardsomr
I completely agree, meta is a cancer. I'm a WoW Refugee, and I played survival hunter, which is hated on WAY more than any jobs here lol. And I played it in all high end content and was was always near top or top in my groups
And thus why I don't want an in game way to check other players damage rates. Meta doesn't matter but the meta crowd are the only times I disliked players in this game. People always bring up damage numbers at new players where I always tell them, find what is fun for you. The people that tend to craft the metas are nice they know their jobs inside and out but those that blindly look up the meta then check the numbers and expect everything to work that way are so toxic. Nothing worse then seeing a new player get confused ask for help and at best get kicked at worse get a verbal er text beat down. As a MCH main since late Heavensward pre Stormblood my job has gotten me into hot water by number crunchers. (Which I only just learned my job was locked in in HW cause of your vid but do recall people telling me bard of mch back then) Been kicked from many a duty finder and gotten right back on the finder to try again but I've come close to quitting a few times, had it not been for my friends and the amazing story that keeps me going. Today's meta is tomorrow's don't or you could just relax and play the game at your pace. No need to get all your weekly stuff done on Tuesday. I know lots of people like the crunch but just as many if not more don't even want wall to wall pulls in duties. I mean I do but I feel so bad when someone feels forced to do so I rarely. Now to share this vid with friends.
Report them if they're bullying people with damage numbers. ACT is technically against the rules however they turn a blind eye towards it for the most part, however if someone uses a third party program not allowed in the game to bully other players? Yeah, don't think they're gonna stand for that.
I've seen a Monk clear E8S. Meta means nothing to a good player. I switched from Warrior main to Dark Knight main because I liked how it flowed with my playstyle. Also it's hilariously edgy. It's great! My character Lemmy Kilmeister is usually rocking it.
Monks and Shamans get corn-holed every xpac now. Full of promise in the beta, completely binned upon release. Hope you enjoy playing Resto Shaman for 3 xpacs in a row. 2h Frost DK getting nerfed almost as soon as they were announced was the last straw for me. At least WW Monk is good in PvP, too bad modern Blizz has been treating PvPers like a fart in the room for years now. I'm done ranting. Sorry, fam.
What a great fuckin game. Meta screwed over so much of WoW, I love how Yoshi P is somehow killing meta, or at least smashing it with a nerf bat. How amazing that skill can basically 100% trump the "best numbers."
this discussion makes me realize how pointless it is me worrying about scholar being outclassed by sage when i dont even run savage, even if this was posted in shadowbringers
I got forced into DRK in HW because PLD was considered "trash". Switched back in SB and performed farrrrr better. People need to just play what they're comfortable with. 90% of these players aren't touching Ultimates anyway.
People need to realize meta is literally just a popularity contest. Maybe it's because the job is the best, or maybe people are just playing it because they find it fun. Or maybe they simply *don't* find the other jobs fun, or don't like their mechanics. I know I personally don't play WAR or DRK because I don't like their invulns. I don't play BLM cause I don't like being a turret. I don't play SMN because I don't like the rotation. I don't play DNC simply because I don't like the aesthetic. None of that has anything to do with whether or not they're meta. It's just my personal feelings. But stuff like that influences the meta.
I believe that the game is balanced enough that any content can be cleared by any job. It's more down to player skill and there really isn't a meta like in other mmo's. That being said, DNC is totally meta. :)
Fortunately, Final Fantasy 14 is an incredibly balanced game with some excellent choices being made by the devs, housing excluded. I think it says more about the person than the state of the game when someone refuses to play with specific classes because "meta"
Kinda what one of my points was. Like, if you need to ban specific jobs to make yourself feel good... well let's just say you're not gonna be very happy ever
@@TheBadassTonberry oh god you're right. The fact that we have crafting classes for housing items, the limited availability for only the most dedicated, and mechanics to ensure the player loses their house for not committing.
I know im late to the party, but what about duplicate jobs ? I've heard that having the same job twice makes your LB gains worse. But is it big enough to really matter ?
Duplicate jobs are almost always bad but I believe there was one fight this expac that a double comp was reasonable. Not needing a meta comp doesn't mean you should avoid having SOME thought put into your comp though. Do 1 of a job only.
Going to bookmark this... So many times I see people shouting that others shouldn't pick bard because it isn't meta. Hopefully this will help them see what is actually going on
My partner stumbled her way into savage and did just fine, all because she picked a job she loved and got good at it. Static happened to need a tank to fill a slot one day on E5S, so she stepped up on her warrior and cleared it on her first night. Not even a carry, she got a green parse. So yeah, just find a job you love and stick with it.
Small brain: "META is life"
Big brain: "META gives you an idea of what's good but it's not a requirement"
Giga brain: "META is horseshit, just use what classes you like and are familiar with"
Galaxy brain: "Get world first with classes known as the worst by meta standards multiple times in a row"
in most cases world first dictates meta
@@forthegod And yet, DRK has multiple world firsts, but is always considered not meta...
@@LS-mb4my in "most" cases not in all
because smallest game update or change in group setup or theirs gear can reverse everything
What really gets me is the crap i hear some people say to new players when they are trying to learn a job, just a couple of days ago somebody was asking about tips to play Glad/PLD and one of the response was "PLD is trash, get it to 60 then switch to Gunbreaker and never look back." It's no wonder i see sprouts wondering if they should ditch their jobs for "Meta" ones when they sometimes get "Advice" like that.
Hahahahaha, thats so good, whoever gave that tip to that sprout must be a master of his class.
I wonder if he's one of those Gunbreakers who always try's to fight for the aggro in those funny little random raids, to just loose to my pally every single time even without using provoke :3
Paladin is awesome, ESPECiALLY for Sprouts.
Nonthereless, each class can and will be awesome.. alsong as u like playin it and have FUN with it.
Tellin someone to play one class to a specific lvl and then switch to another just to forget about it defeats the whole point of the game
>PLD is Trash
Is that guy stupid? Paladin is great, i personally prefer Dark Knight but still PLD is not trash at all.
As a GNB main I wanna slap that guy. GNB and PLD are basically synonymous. Same with WAR and DRK. Just fucking play what you want jfc.
LMAO Paladin has the best defense, offensive, and utility. Clearly that guy had no idea what he was talking about.
@@mrobscene2912 Well....Clearly you don't if you actually believe what you wrote. PLD is good, but it's not that good.
Literally every new player should find your channel. Forget the guide on the hotbar lets put your channel on the hotbar.
I approve this comment
Nearly every question I see someone new, like me, ask, I think oh, there's a wesk Alber video for that.
Yis
I'm almost 3 months in. Just now shambled into ShB
Been listening to WeskAlber while i work (amongst others) over the last 2 ish
I've had bards out dps everyone in raids. Knowing the fight and executing your rotation is more important than any meta in ff14.
Moral of the story, everything can be cleared with any job as long as everyone knows their shit.. really good video though!
Agreed, I think this is one of the biggest draws of the game.
Yoshida said the same thing already in SB if I remember correctly.
true moral every encounter has its own meta
Not just every encounter, every balance patch.
I always hated the 'meta' in any game. I like playing what I find fun. I perform better on it than any other character/class/job/whatever if it's fun. If I play something just to 'fill the meta' then I perform generally worse. Or if the class/character/whatever is braindead, then I'm just bored, which sometimes affects my performance too.
It just depends on what you find fun. A more "casual" player (for lack of a better term) finds fun in the gameplay itself while a more competitive player finds dominating the competition to be fun. So a competitive player is more likely to push the meta, while the casual player just plays what they want most of the time.
Also depends on the game. When I used to play World of Warships Hurricane clan wars (top of the ladder) if you took certain ships you would just lose no matter how good at the game you were. The meta wasn’t static but it was very ossified because Lesta can’t balance. There was a point where destroyers almost disappeared as a class and the only Battleship you saw was the Russian top tier one.
In FF14 the balance is butter, meaning different classes can all contribute.
the real meta was the friends we made along the way
They were no longer little sprouts, they were little raiders :(
Had this problem on Week 1 of 5.2 savage. I cleared E5S on SCH on my first day and on the next day I was looking for people on PF to prog further on E6S. I didn't know this but the lead locked out SAM and MCH. Someone joined in as DRG and switched to SAM. The leader had a fit and they swapped back to DRG. There were issues in the fight and the dps said they aren't used to DRG and would rather play SAM and it started an argument between the entire party against the lead+his friend about how SAM doesn't bring anything for the party.
Needless to say I left to clear that week with other parties and avoided that player for the entirety of the tier. I got my E8S clear some weeks in and this guy was still on PF for weeks looking for people to help him clear.
Ironic that SAM is like, the most meta meta can get this tier lol. "Doesn't offer anything" except being better than any other job, period
That's funny they said sam doesn't bring anything to the party. Just a massive amount of DPS but that's nothing to the party lmao.
@@WeskAlber That kinda how the game balancing work in my opinion. Dps class is on a scale of Utility vs DPS. SAM doesn't have utility per say but they bring more damage than others and as such profit more of other class ''utility''. The whole point of SAM and BLM IMO, when it comes to party balance is that they do enough damage so you can't just ignore that not having them is a DPS loss/Speed loss, but at the same time utility is important enough so you can't just take 3 or 4 SAM/BLM and call it a day. A class ''spot'' in the meta really just depend on your team composition. SAM can easily be top tier DPS as long as there a DNC or BRD to support them, and SAM can drop in tier if it lacks other classes to support it. In all cases, as long as you have 2 tanks, 2 healer, 1-2 ''support'' oriented dps and 2-3 ''damage'' oriented dps you can be #1 in 90% of the raids fights.
@@magikazam8430 The issue is very simple: Yes, SAM has no raid utility, it just does massive amounts of damage.
But what is raid utility in the context of melee classes? Unless I am very mistaken, no melee class has any "utility" that applies to the entire raid that is NOT a damage boost. Trick Attack, DRG's buffs, all of those are pure damage buffs right?
So how can people talk about 'Oh no this brings no utility' when any other melee you could bring is the same, and you have to weigh up personal vs raid dps anyway (where SAM, if I am not entirely mistaken, is still very much top tier despite not increasing other DPS' damage)? The biggest utility any dps brings to the raid is RDM/SMN raises, and I guess ranged classes' mitigation tools, but I've rarely heard people call MCH or BRD meta outside of specific fights like Wesk mentions in this video?
I play jobs in this like characters in fighting games. They might not be the "best" but you're more likely to learn and do well with something that clicks with you and you enjoy than struggling with anything else.
If you like a job, you'll get good at it. I started out as a Warrior and quickly got overwhelmed, even switching to dps for a while. And I wasn't a good tank either, only partially because I was just starting out. I didn't update my gear often enough, I didn't use cool downs, and when mechanics started happening, I got flustered and wanted to help and wouldn't stay put with the boss.
And then I unlocked Dark Knight.
I loved the story of the quests so much that to bypass my tankxiety I leveled it to 50 just through levemetes and fates. And then when I finished the level 50 quest, I wanted *so badly* to get more of the story, but I knew at that point if I kept doing the same stuff, I would level it too slowly and I would get impatient. So I started taking it into roulettes, and what do you know! The more I played, the better I got! I enjoyed it so much I *wanted* to get better at it, and not because it felt like an obligation to other players so that I would be less of an inconvenience. I still hesitate to call myself a *good* tank, instead I tell people that I am simply *a* tank. I'm equipped with the best gear I can get my hands on, I know when to use my cooldowns and how to space them out, and I've gotten much better at keeping the boss still and pointed away from the party.
I don't know, I just figure if a goober like me can get the hang of it, anyone can play any job they feel like playing if they want it badly enough.
I guessed "They probably just liked to play Dark Knight" and I'm pretty happy I was right.
Two years later, this video still holds pretty well true. "The best" choice is often hyperfocused, even when even the "worst" choice within a class role is still entirely viable and can clear any of the game's content perfectly fine. If someone can play a class well, they can take it anywhere.
FFXIV isn't like a fighting game where some character matchups involve one side being at a distinct disadvantage.
In short "Play the class you enjoy, learn the mechanics, and you can climb mountains."
iirc the world first for e8s had a bard in it, and bard isn't doing so well in the """"meta""""
Eden Savages 4, 8, and 12 ALL had a Bard in the world first clears.
Thank you for this. I wish the community would get behind this idea. My last static was ruined by this mindset, all the fun was sucked out of it and it turned into a constant refrain of "but the meta, but the meta..." I got so tired of it. It's a game, fun should be what matters. Maybe chasing the meta is fun for some, but it's keeping a lot of players out of raiding.
We finally started practicing for UwU recently and honestly seeing this was a really reassuring. We're running it with jobs that we enjoy and we hope to get a clear eventually. Love your vids and looking forward to more!
Thanks for the video! I started over (Just got to hw and wanted to start all over again) and will pick a class I enjoy!
Like DRG and SMN and I doubt I'll ever stop playing either of them, unless they remove bahamut from SMN but I'm pretty sure that'll never happen. (I just really love dragons)
I really like spears so I chose Lancer/Dragoon as my main simple as that. I've never really cared about meta and when I had doubts about Dragoon you taught me otherwise. Thanks for that and for this passionate video!
I'm personally not that interested in spears, to me they look lame. But I saw someone practising on a training dummy and thought all the cool explosions and colour changes and different motions they were doing was really cool, so I wanted to try it out.
Basically: meta doesn't matter a whole lot and the gao between classes is easily filled by player skill and experience with their favoured class, play what you want and have fun with and you'll do just fine.
Great video. The one feeling I’ve had while playing is that there’s no true meta, play the job you love and your job will love you back.
Every new player I meet I guide them to your channel! Still the most helpful videos I’ve seen!
Hey man, thanks for posting this. I haven’t played since 2.2 and it’s refreshing to know that I won’t have to meet someone by a training dummy just to get into a raid group.
I mean depending on the group I wouldn't go that far. A group that's trying to be great is going to expect high numbers from you, no matter what job
Other healers find whm boring, but I personally find the OP heals and lilies loads of fun. Theres more to the WHM utlility than Stone and Aereo, which is what other healers complain about. Those two spells.
Ah yes. I remember the days where my static would meme at me to go monk and not play samurai... good times
I decided I'd main Samurai long before I could afford to play the game, at a point where discussing Samurai generally got me the answer that it was kind of trash. While it was nice to learn that Samurai was a beast now, a good ways into the game, I'd already fallen in love with the job for its aesthetic and the sheer delight of how it plays. And hell, in GW2 I learned Raiding on a Reaper, a Spec laughed out of any PuG, because I loved the spec and was good enough at it to squeeze sufficient DPS.
In a good game, if you love something then chances are you're good enough at it to do high tier content with it. I wish more people understood that.
Oh boy, I remember when r/Guildwars2 had a meltdown after some Reaper Main popped up after every single balance patch for a while and threw out a DPS check video, proving his check was better than the "bESt dPs clASS" at the time.
I main Necromancer on GW2, and I remember the days when Reapers could be both dps and tanks with a goddamn broken toughness build combined with death magic, soul reaping, and reaper trait lines. Was it meta? Nope. Did people on LFG ask for it? Hell no, Chrono Tank was already the favorite child. But did I have fun playing as a Tank with dozens of minions taking damage for me? You bet on it.
Reading these comments makes me glad that I play on Asian servers. Neither I or my friends got any of these people harping on and on about the meta.
Sadly proves my point at the end where i sadly say "they will never be convinced."
Happy to have gotten a lot of agreement, including one from TEA's Top 1 5.3 DNC but man... how do you still refuse to listen with all the proof ever?
@@WeskAlber people hate being proven wrong, that stubbornness is amplified when the thing being challenged is the basis of their view in life (from something as big as religion, to something as small as their mindset when consuming entertainment). This is even made worse if they are, or see themselves as, figures of authority in their field.
Hands down the best ffxiv video I've ever seen. Period. I highly enjoyed this video. Thanks!
Thank you for your videos Wesk! I recently changed MMOs from DC Universe Online and found your videos, It’s really helping figuring things out! 🙂
I am an old hand at dcuo.
Though I left years ago I still have very fond memories
But I could watch its degradation
@@EvilDickism Yeah you aren’t missing much anymore unfortunately 😅 It’s just a money hole now. Micro transactions everywhere 😕 Hopefully things get better for it in the future :)
aww..My poor redmage didnt even make the list..let alone a mention LOL I love my redmage almost as much as I love your channel! great video man! keep up the great work keeping us informed and educated!
I did mention RDM like ONCE but in general, yeah. RDM is Progression meta only. Once a group clears a fight for the first time, they can swap out the RDM for something stronger. But again... Speed Meta is so tight that you can do basically any comp and be competitive
"This is brilliant (WAR), but I like this (DRK)."
It isn't the class/job, its the player. Play what you love, have fun, win. Having fun is the ultimate win. Love your channel and guides. TY for your work.
This is one of the biggest things I adore about this game. Any content can be cleared with any class combo.
Thanks for this! As a Savage raider that has started with Eden I had my fair share of "Meta" statics.
I main DNC and heard a lot about how I do too less damage and should work on it more without even thinking about what the problem could be.
That almost ruined the class for me until the leader of my new static explained it to me, how the rotation works, what to do when if possible...
Looking back I was forced to meta-play when I had no idea at all what I even was doing.
Now that I have learned to love the DNC I have more fun than ever!
The best gear and food can give you firepower and stats but if you don't know how to handle those and loose your fun while doing so it has no use to have them whatsoever.
Have fun playing a class!
That's the best way of learning and loving it.
thats it. im maining blue mage and noone can stop me
haha, story time with Wesk!
love it!
I love this video, even more in the context of the pretty lack-luster buff they just gave SCH in 5.4. Thanks for re-focusing me on the point of this game; the quote from the DRK in the world-first UCoB clear resonated with me, "because it's fun".
Also, I'm always blown away by how well-balanced this game is. The differences between viability of jobs (at basically every level of play) is so small, which is refreshing coming from other games where that is absolutely not the case.
Good breakdown! I really appreciate the effort people have gone through to debunk the myth that has been around since Heavensward raiding that people should only play "Meta" classes and anything else is garbage. I remember Stormblood MCH...I enjoyed Stormblood MCH...but good god was it worse than BRD...still cleared pretty much everything with it. Same with Stormblood RDM.
As the dnc in the TEA rank 1 speed group, I'd like to give a shoutout to the rank 1 speed team from 5.2 since they are WAY faster than we are. That can really only be accomplished with their specific comp and played extremely well. But yeah TL;DR play whatever you want
Oh wow yeah... I didn't realize FFlogs started doing that. Last time I genuinely dug into rankings before this video... they didn't separate patches individually, only by tier because of ilvl increases. I feel bad about that now even if it doesn't change that much imo..
Grats on being a solid team but also I think you further prove my point even if that comp is so much more godly.... they were 40 seconds ahead of 2nd. That's not just comp there. If it was purely comp alone, any of you speedrunners could get similar times with just merely using their comp. That big a difference in speed is pure domination that SKILL gets you.
Applying the comp of a team THAT far ahead of even 2nd place is just silly and still remains my point. But thank you for your comment as someone much more qualified to talk by pure skill evaluations
@@WeskAlber I'd be really curious to see if someone can emulate their time with a comp running the same roles.
We were about 3% off a dps check that we might have been able to do with a melee over our brd but that's all guesswork.
Yeah I wanna know if you can push that kinda stuff with any other comps. But even with the same comp that seems like such a stretch to replicate. That's just so brutal
Late comment but you know, for the algorithm - I love your take on this topic and argument style, especially respect for pointing out new data that maybe contradicts the point you make to an extent, but not really if you understand that META changing makes META meaningless. This concept applies to many games, for example I play Lance in Monster Hunter, which is maybe the least liked weapon but I perform way better than most people because I love the job and practice and master it. Same with FFXIV, I out dps people all the time with Dancer because I know the fight, am comfortable with the moveset and keep high uptime. Skill comes from practice, and practice is easy when you love what you play
I'm a player who has interest in trying Ultimate but has absolutely no patience to deal with jerks. And so far I haven't had any luck finding non-jerks to try Ultimate with.
Heck, many times I ended up having to do even Savage with jerks, due to "luck of the draw" in PF. :/
I would like to play my BLM in peace without thinking of all these bs meta and whatnot
Indeed. Just make big boom with Fire IV. Obtain Dopamine. Repeat until everything has died.
In WoW I was an altaholic and by the end of Cataclysm I had at least one max level character of every class. Currently in FFXIV I have 10 80 jobs on my main (and everything else except BLU is 71 or higher) - I really enjoy the versatility.
I really haven't ever studied the meta.
To be fair, there are definitely games/patch cycles where the meta really does matter, and it can be hard to let go of that mentality for some people, for a multitude of different reasons. But yes, this video is spot on and well said =)
I'm glad to see this, it makes me happy. I'm no push over in the game but i have had times that people didnt want me as a class i was playing or putting all the weight on my shoulders do to the fact i was suppose to be TOP tier. Anyways, im glad to see im not alone on this subject.
For the longest time I've thought Meta meant something that you're good at or good with. I had no idea people were blaming job itself even after producer himself told people otherwise.
Nope, meta has specific meanings depending on the context. In context of 14, it's always power... and power means nothing without the skill to wield it
Truly fascinating, and well put together, the information here is well compiled and gives and neat view into the raid scene of FFXIV of which l have since long retired from due to work and family. It's only ever been about fun for me, if any one group had a problem with a class l was playing in a raid, l would personally leave and not waste my time with them. The game is not so terribly balanced that any job is a negative presence in any content, its down to personal bias and how other players 1) believe it and 2) how others players let those biases dictate their static or raid preferences. If a consensus is that a job is a minis to your goal, progression or speed, then you can't beat collective stupidity and it's best you try elsewhere.
Eden's Promise may draw me in again, but something generally comes up to stop any prog time beyond Normal. l look forward to watching and hearing about the new tier.
Again, a very nice video.
My main issue, the part where I kinda sound angry, is people were banning these jobs in PARTY FINDER.
You know, the system with 0 vetting and doesn't guarantee you any good players because you aren't Trialing them for a static?
Like, if a leader is forcing a specific comp, that's fine as long as they're honest about that from the outset. It's still dumb because unless the players they recruit are good to begin with the comp won't matter. But that's their right as raid lead when advertising for a static that they have to play with for the next months/years/whatever time. A PARTY FINDER for casual content that they'll never see any of the members of again? Ah yes, let's block the people that will carry my loser ass because they're better than me.... from CASUAL CONTENT
like ok i guess?
@@WeskAlber Yeah ok, it'll be ok no problem lol SE sought of perpetuated this though with the implementation of Job exclusion in the PF did'nt they? It's the detriment of the player organising the PF raids if they choose to engage meta biases. Move on and find what is generally more open minded people I suppose.
@@Elessar2417 The PF filters are more for having a decent comp on itself. "We already have a BLM, we don't want 2 BLMs so we can generate LB, so restrict the other slots to not allow BLM."
i love your guides, you helped me grasp the summoner 2 minute rotation
I may have missed it in the video, but what's the difference between "progression meta" and "speed meta"
i did not explain it formally but "progression meta" is the optimal strats to clear the fight for the first time.
Speed meta is best strats for fast clears
To elaborate a bit more, Progression Meta is basically about how safe you can be, which is why RDM (and to a lesser extent SMN) are so strong in it - raises on characters that aren't healers, and in RDM's case specifically that can be instantly casted much more often than healers could, for example.
You're likely not going to make a world record speed-clear if you need to raise often enough for that to matter, so utility like this takes a backseat to pure damage if you just need the fight to be over as quickly as humanly possible after having learned all the mechanics inside and out.
It takes more skill to break molds and existing compositions. Truly the best probably have the most open mind. When having a "handicap", the outplay is even sweeter. (Saying as a reformed elitist jerk turned filthy casual)
Breaking the mold here is almost all singular seconds which basically just comes down to crits lol. But yeah, the top players don't need to conform and yet people ignore that they don't. This isn't the age of HW where it was just THAT broken.
Hating people for playing a specific job is just stupid no matter how you look at it. Especially when it's always the filthiest casuals doing it
One single thing to note; you should've used 5.2 patch speedrun comps as 5.2 was FAR more competitive than 5.3
Yeah I should have. I didn't realize the rankings were separated. Not that it would have changed my conclusions just the data.
Coming from speed running, something with this much variation and player choice is nowhere near optimized enough for any one particular class to just be the best.
I've been a RDM main since Stormblood came out.
I played other jobs to fill the gaps between patches as was required from previous statics (DRK and NIN during SB, MCH during E5S-E7S), but every time I could I went back to RDM.
It wasn't because it's good during prog. It was because I've loved the idea of a mage knight since I was a kid.
Now that I've been able to go back to RDM since we progged E8S, not only am I having more fun than with the previous fights, I'm also performing better.
People really just need to learn a very simple lesson: Play what you enjoy and makes you happy and you'll play much better than if you play a job just because it's meta.
I chose LNC/DRG as my starter job, just finished Heavensward and started Dragonsong picking up DNC, DRK, MCH and GNB along the way, I just play whatever job I feel comfortable with and know I'll have fun with. If I'm playing a dungeon I don't have to dance around the boss to avoid AoE attacks I'll play Dragoon, if I need to move around so much I can't get my full rotation off, I'll play Dancer because I can get a rotation off while on the move and at range
As a Monk main, I know I'll never beat out a Samurai in terms of pure damage, but dps is still and the raid wide utility just outweights the 5-10%(or so I haven't done the math) damage difference. I like the class, i like the challenge it brings, and lord knows if i ever do Ultimates its going to be on Monk. I just hope they don't mess too much with it.
I played monk since the start of heavensward, until the start of Shadowbringers. ShB completely ruined monk for me. I find it almost unrecognisable to what it used to be. Hopefully 5.4 brings the job back a good spot.
I only recently played Monk, and before 5.4 I didn't like it all that much mostly because of the Greased Lightning mechanic. After 5.4 however, I dare say it's become my favorite Melee class, even over Samurai and Ninja, purely because of how fast it consistently plays and it's mechanics.
As a Greek guy myself I had to stopby for your Greek μέτα
I was trying to find the most "pretentious" font I could find.
Greek was the best option even if Greeks typically had a point
wonderful video. my friends just started raiding last tier and they do nothing but dogpile on some jobs as if they're a hindrance to a party, so thanks for this lol
Just shows skill/what you enjoy will out perform the meta every time.
I've never did care about "meta" . I only care about completing content, trying again, fun, make friends.
*smacks table* Thank you!
BLUE MAGE GOES BRRRRRR
In a vacuum, with all things being equal meta wins out, but even the top 0.10% of players aren't robots and having even the most minor deviations in play can lead to sweeping differences in clear times/composition effectiveness etc. Then there are also tons of different nuanced strats for different comps on different fights. This is why, even though there actually is a meta, it doesn't really matter at all, and the only people who obsess over it are players stuck in PF 99% of the time, because they think they'll finally the clear with the "right setup".
Meta is learning the actual fight instead of worrying about what classes are being played
I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for the last 8 years on and off and that game has shown me why metas develop. The short answer is, if you don't extensively hold someone's hand then they will never learn how to DPS. So any encounter that relies on people being good at DPS basically creates a huge wall between normal MMO players and serious MMO raiders.
It's also why the worst players are usually pigeon-holed into playing healers in a lot of MMOs. (The better the DPS is at their job, the easier the healer's job becomes.)
The thing is, here, a good DPS is a good DPS regardless of the job. A good DPS is going to make things easier, period
@@WeskAlber FF14 solves the problem of “bring the player not the class(job)” by making most DPS/healers/tanks interchangeable.
My point was though that historically raiding in MMOs is something that casual groups have an extremely difficult time clearing.If I were to quantify skill levels a casual player normally doesn’t even have 1/10th the skill level of a serious raider (and this is mostly in regards to DPS). Metas are usually developed by high skill raiders to speed clear raids, but are pressed by the community as basically recipes for increasing the simple probability that a group will be able to clear a raid at all.
In other words, usually in MMOs, and maybe this mentality carries over to FF14, people don’t trust other people to know what they are doing so they require that they copy the pros.
@@xxJing gw2 player (quit). i like meta because it has a standard to drive towards. i often find meta folks to be 10x better than non metas. pugs run selfish builds, with little to no utility, and hardly dodge relying on healing. blind meta are usually worse but going as a support cancels it out. when i went pure dmg warrior i got laughed at for going down ( no help at all), i had to stop playing how i wanted to play and range so i wouldn't be dead weight. unsurprisingly they hit a wall while i went way beyond what stopped them (I went with more team players). when they found out i went to higher levels than them they thought i was just being carried but somehow we went in together and noticed how smooth it went. the frequent invites were annoying when you become a guaranteed good slot. I still prefer guardian for pugs and smoother runs, but hooo boy so many people want a good guardian.
players really need to learn to be more adaptive. you should still play what you find fun but realize you might also need to change up a little for the mission. I never played ff14 but it sounds quite balanced where its more how you want to do it + player skill vs this is just needed.
@@zeosummers3984 To summarize how ff14 works, each class has a single role and there are no specs. A samurai does melee DPS and only melee DPS and he does it one way. Also whether you play a samurai, a ninja, a dragoon, or a monk matters very little. They all do roughly the same dps and have roughly the same capabilities. They do have a different play experience though.
In ff14 the meta probably only differs in seconds as to how fast you can clear an encounter. However, my point of this post was basically just to show where the meta mindset stems from which is that metas are created by high level raiders to maximize raiding efficiency. And in most MMOs, the average player just doing whatever they want is so prone to failure that the raiding community basically adopts the high level meta as a requirement in hopes that it will increase the chance of raids being cleared.
In FF14 in particular it doesn’t matter. While you still can maximize efficiency, the game basically holds your hand into playing effectively to the point where being Meta or just having a set of random high level gear doesn’t really matter much unless you are going for speed clears / raid sales. I have noticed that it does suffer from some players still not being able to DPS effectively though, which is usually the biggest reason for failure in other MMOS such as GW2.
This video was more satisfying than dropping a fat Dragonfire Dive on a supercluster of mobs.
Square isn't Blizzard. They actually know how to balance classes. Play what you like in FFXIV, and you'll do well.
Fun. It’s the reason I play the game. Any game. For the record, I too think Dark Knight is Fun! Share the love for the dark tank. As for UCoB and other such nightmarish bosses. Never tried them before. After all this time I might actually be brave enough to try. In short, a job is what you make of it. Thank you for the interesting video. Stay safe. ❤️
I've never been one too upset over meta, despite being a WAR main and wanting it to be higher on the list dps-wise. I had no problem getting a party with 4 black mages thru E8s. What I do have issues with is scrubs going into end game content with no clue, unmelded gear, no food etc.
Another reason why I'd wager dragoons are so popular is that... Well... Dragoons are just badass. Which means many people will gravitate to playing them. What other game lets you turn into a spiky, lance-wielding ballistic missile, harnessing the power of ancient wyrms?
In terms of a meta, how a job looks isn't even factored. Game as a whole sure. But when we're talkin the best jobs for killing stuff, numbers are coming first.
@@WeskAlber well, yes. But what I mean is that there will simply be more people who play dragoon because of that, which means that there's a larger pool for the hardcore ones to come from
"Fun!" The audacity!
Great video man
Bruh...I liked all of them, with tanks. I started with pld, definitely most defensive of the 4 for ME. Gnb is flashy, it is good, must be the most balanced with offense and defense. Drk got a lot of ogcd, which i like as well. But war's burst though. War is the last tank i'm leveling up now and i like it.
So it kind of seems like the game is so balanced that your knowledge of your job and how much you've practiced playing the game is more important than the job you're playing
Basically!
Just today someone new in my FF14 group said he love how DNC play but damage is low so he is not hoping for endgame content... I have to educate him about raid DPS, utility and tell him all team composition is viable.
Dude, on the OF I would argue to hell and back for Stormblood DRK being a good tank. I argued against the masses that claimed the job was in a poor, even unacceptable state. Nevermind that DRK was actually capable of DPS to be on par with (and even surpass) PLD, or that it had superior mitigation than WAR, all anybody looked at was the lack of an AoE mitigation option and lack of a way to beat knockbacks (nevermind well timed plunges existed.)
Sadly, the masses won in the end, because DRK was stripped of it's unique, fast paced, high-apm style of sustained damage in exchange for becoming a literal WAR clone. I 100% agree the meta has little to do with success, but sometimes loud voices win over reason.
i chose machinist and stuck with it after trying every job to level cap. its what i enjoy playing the most...sadly even the
group im in would rather have a dancer like most groups...but im not goign to change what i enjoy just because someone else wants me too....if you dont take me as a MCH then i will find a different group end of story.
Yea I don’t judge people’s job choices for their power, I do find it difficult to like MCH mains for personal reasons tho
Fun is OP.
Nerf fun.
I main Drg and Drk an it never slowed me down. Some partys would lock out my class, but a good drk will surpass a mediocre war. War was just so boring an easy. The prejudice is gone now in shadowbringers. I even cleared Tea with 2 physical ranged. Given we had alot of 1% enrages we still got 17 clears an even a decent kill time due to high cleave dmg in the first two phases. You mentioned Drg is #1 melee in tea, it's because of the two target phases. - Crystal Cryo of Midgardsomr
Meta is for the kind of person who thinks their DPS meter is more important than actually enjoying the game.
I completely agree, meta is a cancer. I'm a WoW Refugee, and I played survival hunter, which is hated on WAY more than any jobs here lol. And I played it in all high end content and was was always near top or top in my groups
And thus why I don't want an in game way to check other players damage rates. Meta doesn't matter but the meta crowd are the only times I disliked players in this game. People always bring up damage numbers at new players where I always tell them, find what is fun for you. The people that tend to craft the metas are nice they know their jobs inside and out but those that blindly look up the meta then check the numbers and expect everything to work that way are so toxic. Nothing worse then seeing a new player get confused ask for help and at best get kicked at worse get a verbal er text beat down. As a MCH main since late Heavensward pre Stormblood my job has gotten me into hot water by number crunchers. (Which I only just learned my job was locked in in HW cause of your vid but do recall people telling me bard of mch back then) Been kicked from many a duty finder and gotten right back on the finder to try again but I've come close to quitting a few times, had it not been for my friends and the amazing story that keeps me going. Today's meta is tomorrow's don't or you could just relax and play the game at your pace. No need to get all your weekly stuff done on Tuesday. I know lots of people like the crunch but just as many if not more don't even want wall to wall pulls in duties. I mean I do but I feel so bad when someone feels forced to do so I rarely. Now to share this vid with friends.
Report them if they're bullying people with damage numbers. ACT is technically against the rules however they turn a blind eye towards it for the most part, however if someone uses a third party program not allowed in the game to bully other players? Yeah, don't think they're gonna stand for that.
@@TheArrivalCyberse I always try to report when I see it. Glad to see someone agrees with me on that.
I've seen a Monk clear E8S. Meta means nothing to a good player. I switched from Warrior main to Dark Knight main because I liked how it flowed with my playstyle. Also it's hilariously edgy. It's great! My character Lemmy Kilmeister is usually rocking it.
Wasn't a MNK the like, first streamer to clear E8S? Golden Tot even I think it was
@@WeskAlber I think it was!
Can't stand meta-zombies. Fun first! Tysm for pointing this out
As an ex WoW player....the balance in FFXIV is so darn refreshing.
Monks and Shamans get corn-holed every xpac now. Full of promise in the beta, completely binned upon release. Hope you enjoy playing Resto Shaman for 3 xpacs in a row. 2h Frost DK getting nerfed almost as soon as they were announced was the last straw for me. At least WW Monk is good in PvP, too bad modern Blizz has been treating PvPers like a fart in the room for years now.
I'm done ranting. Sorry, fam.
I love your vids
TLDR: Play the job you want.
What a great fuckin game. Meta screwed over so much of WoW, I love how Yoshi P is somehow killing meta, or at least smashing it with a nerf bat. How amazing that skill can basically 100% trump the "best numbers."
this discussion makes me realize how pointless it is me worrying about scholar being outclassed by sage when i dont even run savage, even if this was posted in shadowbringers
I got forced into DRK in HW because PLD was considered "trash". Switched back in SB and performed farrrrr better. People need to just play what they're comfortable with. 90% of these players aren't touching Ultimates anyway.
DNC is weakest dps but man do i love that class. Also, love samurai so theres that
Personal DPS yeah. But dance partner a god and you become a demi-god
@@WeskAlber oh I know. That is, if your dance partner is already good at dps. I play dancer when I'm lazy. Easy class to clear stuff with
How do I get my screen to look like that too? Like with your ability setups and all
Gotta play with it a lot in HUD Layout. I do have a video about my HUD but i don't explain how to make it exactly like this
People need to realize meta is literally just a popularity contest. Maybe it's because the job is the best, or maybe people are just playing it because they find it fun. Or maybe they simply *don't* find the other jobs fun, or don't like their mechanics. I know I personally don't play WAR or DRK because I don't like their invulns. I don't play BLM cause I don't like being a turret. I don't play SMN because I don't like the rotation. I don't play DNC simply because I don't like the aesthetic. None of that has anything to do with whether or not they're meta. It's just my personal feelings. But stuff like that influences the meta.
ninja dead... lol jk. Great video and you're on point about everything! I do say this, be biased about your job have some pride in it, it's okay.
I believe that the game is balanced enough that any content can be cleared by any job. It's more down to player skill and there really isn't a meta like in other mmo's. That being said, DNC is totally meta. :)
I think 10 sec and anything below is just down to crit and direct hit rates . Feel free to contradict me on it .
10 seconds, probably too wide. 5 I'd say is the PURE point of no return
@@WeskAlber probably . 5 who knows lol ..you can play exactly the same and just have bad rolls on crit and dht
@@Shivajaiswal9 Which is why all of these options are "meta" basically lol
@@WeskAlber true hahaha .
Fortunately, Final Fantasy 14 is an incredibly balanced game with some excellent choices being made by the devs, housing excluded. I think it says more about the person than the state of the game when someone refuses to play with specific classes because "meta"
Kinda what one of my points was. Like, if you need to ban specific jobs to make yourself feel good... well let's just say you're not gonna be very happy ever
Housing is the true endgame.
@@TheBadassTonberry oh god you're right. The fact that we have crafting classes for housing items, the limited availability for only the most dedicated, and mechanics to ensure the player loses their house for not committing.
this shit started in HW with War
I know im late to the party, but what about duplicate jobs ? I've heard that having the same job twice makes your LB gains worse. But is it big enough to really matter ?
Duplicate jobs are almost always bad but I believe there was one fight this expac that a double comp was reasonable. Not needing a meta comp doesn't mean you should avoid having SOME thought put into your comp though. Do 1 of a job only.
Going to bookmark this... So many times I see people shouting that others shouldn't pick bard because it isn't meta. Hopefully this will help them see what is actually going on
Many who care about meta don't even play at a high enough level where the meta matters anyway. Just have fun.
watching all this when im not even playing high-end content yet xD
My partner stumbled her way into savage and did just fine, all because she picked a job she loved and got good at it. Static happened to need a tank to fill a slot one day on E5S, so she stepped up on her warrior and cleared it on her first night. Not even a carry, she got a green parse. So yeah, just find a job you love and stick with it.