How would YOU rank things differently? Shout out to HiFiGo for sponsoring Wave Guide. Check out their sales: - hifigo.com/collections/sales?rfsn=8539789.379f98
Crazy thought, and I know you've mentioned it before, but volume. It's tough not to put that at S tier? I think that is the first thing I question now when trying new gear or software (on a good day). After an initial, "Wait, am I loving the music or the gear? Because this sounds stellar...", then I say to myself, "Yes, this sounds great...but does it sound "better" just because it's louder?" Could you imagine how different the hobby/market would be if everyone's rig/rigs were volume matched to the individual? I think your ranking would be mostly obvious...
Understanding our perception and recognising that sometimes there may not really be a noticeable change when when we think we hear something different @@_chiaki_nanami_
My video: ua-cam.com/video/-WbVsly1X0w/v-deo.html There's a huge difference for R2R dac (sounds 3D and clear) versus a delta-sigma chip (sounds clear) so it should be higher on your ranking (row B). I have Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 and Denafrips Ares II 12th. Amps should be higher on your list (row c) if they have a high damping factor (around 1000) and using a thick 9 AWG speaker wire will hear tight kick drums. I have NAD C298 and PS Audio S300. I disagree with Unit Variation which should be at the bottom row F. I have never heard a difference. Missing on your comparison: - Loudspeaker: Top Row S. Big difference between many kinds of cone speakers, AMT tweeter, planar tweeter. - subwoofers (sealed, ported, active, bass radiators): row A. - RCA versus XLR for long distance over 25' is row A. Pause the music and put your ears up to the speaker to hear hiss and noise. - preamplifier: good versus great will be heard on row B. - Isoacoustics antivibration feet for speakers: row C - bi-amping using very good speakers and amps: row C. - DDC (I use Denafrips Iris 12th): row B. - Long network cable (75' and 30') connected by a coupler: row S. I would get pauses using a cheap coupler. - power cables (I use iFi Supanova active noise cancelling). row B. - cables interconnects. row D. - speaker cables. row C. - Network cable: Cheap copper clad aluminum CCA versus 100% copper: I would get pauses using a cheap copper clad aluminum. Row S. - Row S: clear my ears of wax monthly with this Amazon water squirter: amzn.to/44kweMo - Row S: room with 4 doors and acoustics treatment or with carpet/curtains/furniture. - streamers: Row C.
Audiophile acoustic rugs are game changers.. Night and day difference. Audiophile powerplants, clean current form a renewable energy source is key. Nuclear power messes with PRAT.
I can't believe no one is disagreeing with the dac/amp take. I have never done this for standalone dacs, but for dac/amps I can confidently pick what I am listening to, in a blind test. As an obvious example, listening to an Apple dongle (and this is not the blind test I am talking about) with an hd600 it's a night and day difference, even compared to a small mobile dac/amp like an E1DA or Questyle m15i.
Before hearing any explanation to taint what I would write, I wrote this before watching. As a musician, electrical engineer, and relative newbie in the Hi-Fi game, I'd rank like so S: Music Production. Having worked in this as a hobby, a good/bad mix can utterly destroy enjoyment of a song. Even "good" mixes can sound good or bad to some people. I cannot listen to any Taylor Swift for example because of how far forward she is in the mix and how I find her voice grating. (EDIT: This is also only talking about mixes and not going down the rabbit hole you can when you start going into mic placement on drums/speaker cabs/etc., There is so much producer discretion that can affect the recording) The amount of variance here is vast. S: Headphones. This is the last part of your signal chain and the "filter" your clean analog signal hits before it hits your ears (with exception of the air between the driver and your ear, but that's nitpicking). Even with EQ, finding a good headphone with a good curve out of the box, charactristics for sound stage, drivability for your hardware, comfort, etc. is crucial. S: 128 to 320kbps: I can easily ABX this. It is very apparent in most genres of music when you go from a 128 to 320kbps MP3 S: Bluetooth to Wired: Big for a reason that is not really sound quality, but latency. That is all. I will die on that hill even though it really isn't about sound. A: Amps. This is more of a relative rating. When trying to get into the hobby, many people just plug a 3.5mm into their PC and leave it at that. However, higher power amps REALLY makes the vastness of options within hi-fi headphone community possible with the existence of low sensitivity or high imepedance headphones (or both if you're Susvara or Tungsten). As such, relative to what people typically come from with their PC's audio jack, relatively speaking, an Amp is very important. From high quality amp to high quality amp? Solid State to Tube? I would be torn between C and D. A: EQ. As an amateur producer/musician, EQ is one of the most important tools in any mix, to help tame/bump frequencies that are lacking in a headphone (i.e. add more Subbass to the 6xx, or tuning out the 8kHz peak in any of Beyer's stuff). I would argue it's not as important as getting a solid pair of cans right off the bat so EQ'ing is minimal, but it still is a very important tool to shape sound to the users liking (or towards the Harman Curve like a normie). B: Unit variation. This is assuming something extreme like Headphone Show's FiiO FT1 Pro, where they had a unit with an unbalanced channel. Defects between units make unit variation a bit more important, but when there are no defects, this is more like a D, almost an F to me. Most changes between drivers/units should be inaudible, unless you're buying some cheaper headphones where the build quality can affect the sound like in the undermentioned case. C: Pad-wear/Swaps: More a comfort thing. If you have an HD 600 or any similar headphone where the pads legitimately implode within a few months, then sure, the space between the driver and your ear does change (but those headphones also have very rolled off bass, which is the main frequency band that distance changes due to the wave passing your ears by, so you don't really hear it as much). This is tough, since a Dekoni or ZMF pad with high density foam will not wear nearly as bad as a trash set. Call it a wash, it's kinda important. D: DACs: D for DAC. Also, most DACs do the thing. So long you get one with a noise floor that isn't trash, it does the thing. If I had to ABX a D10 to a Ferrum Wandla, I probably would struggle to tell you the difference. The only thing keeping this out of F is the fact that I can get some cool DACs that bake items like EQ into them (e.g. RME ADI-2) which give them some level of functionality beyond just converting bits to wubs. D: 320kbps to Lossless: Do a true ABX test. I'll wait. MAYBE you hear some hiss in cymbals with some of the most analytical listening to point you one way or the other, but then you really aren't enjoying the music you bought all this gear for and more trying to justify its existence in your house. Only reason this is in D is perhaps there are some that are able to hear many things between the two in a true ABX test without trying. For them, I'll throw a bone. F: Cables. If a manufacturer of headphones is not providing a cable with low resistance/capacitance/inductance and decent connectors out of the box, somethings wrong. In fact, looking at the frequencyh response chart in The Headphone Show's "Cables DO Matter" video, the people making these huge twisted cables for show, I notice a touch of high-end roll off. They literally added some level of inductance to their cable, made a poor highpass filter in the media to TRANSFER audio - not filter it - and rolled off some of the treble of the mix. Nawh man, not for me. If your cable is EQ'ing/filtering your mix, you're crazy. F: Burn-In. :^) F: Hi-Res Audio: I didn't know you hated storage space/bandwidth so much to store/stream files with no perceptible gain over Lossless. The rest I have no comment on, or haven't personally used.
Thanks for sharing. You must go on about the music production. It's hard to believe a well established band with funds doesn't always come away with a well recored uncompressed album. Is the producer/engineer looking at the final product to sound good enough on a cheap car speaker ?
In the debate between high quality mp3 vs lossless, I agree that the difference in sound quality is minimal. But I think buying lossless makes more sense because it can be converted to other (future) formats without quality loss. Can’t say the same about mp3.
@@SuperReview I'm interested in hearing more about your personal music tastes and habits! For instance, I've been listening to your recommendation of Mutations by Nilüfer Yanya and it's pretty neat. Also, your tutorial video on roadie wraps were really helpful as a quality of life kind of thing.
Honestly feel like almost everything is spot on. The only thing I'd make a small argument for is DACs and Amps. I would put DACs in C (I can hear a noticeable difference in R2R vs DS DACs) and Amps in B. Tube amps absolutely can make a substantial difference in sound, I might even put specifically tube amps higher in A. Tube rolling can change that tube sound quite a bit.
I would probably agree in principle but a DAC on its own doesn’t matter in the long run. I think you only hear DAC differences based on how an amp plays back the converted digital signals. However, amps can certainly be moved up to C tier because there are differences between solid state and tubes. And when combined with D/A conversion, the characteristics of those amps will remain intact. I’m sure some won’t agree but that’s just my take.
@@Camride I have heard dac differences, but we are talking an O2 dac, to an old dacmagic dac, and from a dacmagic to the dac in the fiio k9 pro headphone amp. So in my experience once you reach a certain baseline dacs probably don't matter unless you want to colour the signal. The same with amps above a certain level it is about colouration of the sound or more power/voltage/current to match a certain hard to drive headphone. But At this point many headphone amps come out with multiple watt per channel power. That is more than enough...
I was going to say the same. I can, in blind tests, tell the difference between my DACs with the ESS vs CS vs R2R that I own fairly consistently. I can't tell the difference between solid state amps most times. I do find I can tell the difference between my tube amps but how much that is the hiss vs the warmth I'm not sure. I do
@@housepianistOf course. You cannot hear electricity signal. You only can hear accoustic signal 😂😂😂. You do not understand how to make comparison. If you want compare two DAC, you must use all other except the DAC is SAME. The SPL (Sound Pressure Level) also must same.
I eq everything. once you know how to dial it in, it becomes a game changer. just a quick example: i eq'ed my $6 sleeping iems (kbear dumpling) to match my prefered tuning and it now sounds just about perfect.
I would go as far as putting 128->320 in A or even S tier. I can still remember the time i downloaded an album (Which came free when you buy the CDs) from Amazon (which was supposedly 320kbps mp3 but turned out to be in the realm of 200ish) and it was just CRUSHED to death. Guitars and drums kind of melted together and it was so bad listening to it. I would have ripped it myself but thought that it would save me some time and i just wanted to get going and listen to it on the go. Later when i got the CD i ripped 320 myself and it was night and day. Seperation and clarity was just insanely better. I haven't been lazy ever since and ripped all my CDs myself xD And a small take from me regarding the whole Bluetooth wired thing: I have been using a Fiio BTR3K (LDAC) with all my IEMs and i didn't hear any difference BUT i have had bad experiences when i used EQ (Wavelet) and my Fiio because Bass suffered heavily for some reason whenever i EQ'd. Maybe its just wavelet acting up but when i use EQ nowadays i go wired because of that reason.
@Dark-dx1kv My buffersize is at 4096 (Which is default i suppose?) but i havent fiddled with the dev settings so maybe i try that :D @SuperReview I have EQ'd the Zero Reds to the Deuce to kind of get a feel before buying the deuce and thats when i heard the issues. There are definitely Negative gains in the Treble and mids but huge gains in the bass (duh) so maybe its just the buffer size but i will give that a try later if i feel like it. There is no reason for me anymore because i got the deuce (and they are my favs by far)
Higher buffer size = higher latency You want to keep buffer size as low as possible without hearing any clicks or other artifacts Upvote 29 Downvote Reply reply u/oratory1990 avatar oratory1990 MOD • 6mo ago acoustic engineer Profile Badge for the Achievement Top 1% Commenter Top 1% Commenter This is it. Buffer size is how much „time“ you give the processor to finish the calculations. More powerful processors can do it in a shorter time and hence can work with lower buffer sizes. It only affects latency. Larger buffer size than necessary has zero beneficial effects
I would like to see enviroment as a factor too. In loud homes maybe close to the street with lots of vehicle traffic, or just being outside the external sounds seems to be affecting my enjoyement and the experience of the music in considerable way maybe a- to b tier importance IMO
„Placebo“ - A Tier - while f.e. most probably can’t hear the differences between 320kbits mp3 & flac, I definitely feel better listening to flac - knowing it is flac makes the music sound better to me if that makes any sense
EQ is where it's at. I have USB Audio Pro with Tone Boosters' which gives me 10 bands of PEQ, and it makes it possible to voice my IEM's pretty any way I like. I actually think pads and tips made huge differences. The re-tip of the Dusk to Azla Sedna Lights, and my EA 500 LM's to Devinus Velvets dramatically enhanced the seal for those IEM's and with it the bass extension and impact. Likewise, the swap to Dekoni sheepskin pads on my Hd 800's and LCD X's, changed both of phones dramatically for the better. As for stuff like Dacs and cables, no difference unless the cable is microphonic, then big difference. For power get enough and just about everything out there is transparent. And don't worry about Hi Res. Just do Flac and enjoy.
Hey Mark.. I kinda disagree with the Bluetooth vs Wired argument. I think Bluetooth causes a noticeable degradation in quality and I would put that atleast in B tier. One easy way you can test it out is buy a Bluetooth adapter from KZ or Trn or Fiio. That way you can test out the same iem both wired and Bluetooth. The BT version definitely sounds choked, has more noise floor .
You might not be wrong about those products (I haven't tested them, but I believe you), but I would add that using products like those, you're also changing the DAC/amp stage, and there's probably also some low-level CPU / microcontroller. Here's my understanding: AAC and LDAC bitrates exceed the bitrates at which I can hear a difference between lossy compression (MP3) and lossless. Which suggests (1) any loss in audible sound quality over those codecs is likely due to the stages in between, and (2) increasing Bluetooth bandwidth to lossless-capable won't on its own improve sound quality.
@@SuperReviewYeah , if you strictly boil it down to a matter of codecs, I don't think Ldac improves the sound quality over Aac by a noticeable degree.. But those adapters are definitely doing something that's worsening the audio quality. There's often a constant zzzz sound (noise floor) that's audible on paying close attention. When that mixes up with the music , the incisive nature of the iem takes a hit. The upper treble takes a hit. Making the iem sound narrower. Overall giving it a congested feel. How big is the change? Not much. Maybe a solid 5%. But it's definitely there
AAC can measurably alter the frequency response in quite a significant way depending on the device you have. Sometimes attenuating everything past 13khz. They also have significantly different noise filters depending on the content selected. LDAC, however, tries to keep distortion shape filters as linear as it can pushing everything outside the audible band. 990kb the noise floor is at -116dB which is identical to 16bit dithered CD quilty. My android phone will defult to LDAC 660, which is around -100db dynamic range, but pushing the shape filter into the audible band with -74db at 15hkz. I still can't notice the difference between 990 and 660, but it isn't equal to CD quilty like 990 is. You can use apps on the android store to force the phone to stay at a certain codac. Alternatively, you use developer mode.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez Agreed. Similar findings here. I'm a musician who has had a home recording studio for over 14 years (drums/percussion & saxophone). A few years ago I decided to use a relatively inexpensive pair of Kali Audio IN-8 2nd Wave active studio monitors in my master bedroom as a casual listening setup and for occasionally listening to my rough mixes in a different environment. I combined the Kali studio monitors with an iFi ZEN Blue v2 Bluetooth receiver which supports most of the modern BT codecs including LDAC. I keep a Samsung Galaxy TAB S7+ tablet on the nightstand next to the bed for general web browsing, email, content consumption, and music listening, etc. I have a 512GB microSD card inserted in the tablet that is loaded with FLAC files rip'd from my CD and Vinyl LP collection as well as some of my own recordings. I can also use various streaming services via the tablet. When enabling the Developer Options in the settings of this Android-based tablet, I can connect to the iFi ZEN Blue v2 Bluetooth Receiver and almost instantly switch between SBC/AAC/APT-X/LDAC and the variable bitrates as well. IME, there is a Clearly NOTICEABLE Difference in Clarity, Soundstage/Imaging Focus & Expansiveness, and in some cases the Noise Floor when switching between ALL of the other Codecs and LDAC @ 990/900kbps, with the latter being superior (sometimes by a large margin). This will obviously be dependent on the quality of the original music that is being played in regards to its recording, mixing, and mastering quality. YMMV
Honestly after A/B testing most of these things, I came to realize that I cannot hear any difference in sound under A tier. Maybe except for the ear tips. But compared to EQ/headphones/production/impedance, other differences are minuscule at best.
Mark, thank you for your honesty as always. I know I’ll be coming back to this video every time I feel the urge to upgrade, just to remind myself where my investment truly makes a difference. This aligns so much with what I’ve learned through my own experience. Couldn’t agree more about music production being at the top of the hierarchy. I listen to music from around the world, and some albums from India are especially dear to me. There’s a UA-cam channel called The Mastering Project, run by a renowned, award-winning sound engineer, where he legally remasters some of these tracks. Some of them are from the ’80s and ’90s, but his mastering work is so good that I actually ditch Apple Music Lossless just to listen to his versions on UA-cam. I’ve been through my fair share of DACs, amps, and cables, but I’ve ultimately downsized to a simple FiiO dongle DAC, Truthear Hexa, S12, and HD560S. And honestly, I couldn’t be happier. It’s refreshing to see creators like you cutting through the noise and keeping the focus on what really matters and that is helping people invest in the right things to truly enjoy the music they love. Keep doing what you do!
I agree with EQ. I'm new to audiophile headphones world, and I just recently bought a HD650. I quite like the stock sound but I wish there's a bit more sub-bass and quite dislike the Sennheiser 'veiled' midrange. After eq (oratory1990), the HD650 is in a whole new level and might be the only open back headphone I need. I understand 'purist' would advice newcomers to avoid eq at all cost, but as someone who live at a place where there's no way to test/listen to headphones/IEMs/DAC-Amps, I can only rely on online reviews, and EQ is the only way to remedy anything that is lacking (or too much of) in the headphone/earphones that I just bought, instead of having tu buy multiple audio gears gadgets just to get the 'perfect' sound for me.
If you do not understand about frequency response, it is better to not use EQ. EQ can be very good tool in right people but also can make it worse for wrong person.
Saying amps & dacs don't make a significant difference in the sound is absolute waffle... to put it in the same ranking tier as cables is absurd. If you're talking about cheap dongle dacs, sure - but using something more significant like a Chord Mojo 2 or a tube amp - the difference they can make is enormous. I don't think this is even subjective. This is really bad information, period.
Then it should be pretty easy to make a video of a blind A-B test demonstrating how big the difference is! So far I have no takers, you could be the first.
@SuperReview it would be no problem at all for me to take the test blindfolded. It's very easy for you to say this, because you know full well that it's practically a very difficult thing to do. If I made a video, you could say it was rigged.
I'm not sure about DACs and how much improvement there is between them, because I've always just used the internal DAC of my cd players, but amps all sound different, and in many cases can be as different as the color green is to the color orange. Don't expect Harry Pearson or J.Gordon Holt level, discerning skills on here. At least anytime soon. Our host seems to be technically astute, but needs someone to point out to him and make him understand the finer points of sound quality; many of them involving timbre and spatiality. And the refreshing absence (on the better equipment) of unnatural artifacts in tbe sound such as edge, grain, colorations, lack of transient speed, thinness (lack of body and palpability), glare, electronic signature, and other things that interfere with the "natural" re-creation of sound.
@@sidesup8286 mine have all been combination dac/amps, except for my tube amp, so I'm not sure about DACs either, but I'm not writing it off until I've heard them separately. I have four set up on my WiiM Ultra & they are all very different; Cayin HA-1A MK2, Chord Mojo 2, Topping DX9 & a Sony DMP-Z1. I have a Questyle M15 Dongle for my phone, which sounded a hell of a lot better than the iBasso DCO3 Pro before it, but I just got a FiiO BTR17 as I wanted an ultra portable BT device. I don't believe in cables or headphone/IEM burn in... it astounds me that someone who is doing such a project as this is just blanket dismissing any possibility for their to any difference whatsoever. His comeback 'no takers so far' is meant to reinforce his opinion & that we are 'scared' to take such a test, but the truth is... and he knows it full well... that from a practical standpoint it is extraordinarily difficult to do. Weak.
I think dacs and amps should probable be at least a step higher, if only because most people are using just whatever is built into their pc, and stepping from that to any dedicated dac/amp makes a noticeable difference. Maybe once you get past that point the difference is a "you really have to be paying attention to notice" thing, but that first step can be a pretty big one.
I agree with that, I think a lot of laptops and PCs have sneakily bad audio output, which is why I often recommend a $9 Apple dongle to anyone getting started. It's a cheap way to eliminate possible problems.
I would argue eartips make just as big, if not maybe a slightly bigger difference than pad swaps because iems having good isolation from the outside and sticking nicely in your ear will affect the sound a lot, especially bass, but the other frequencies too
You might want to try to ABX first. Also, when we talk about 128kbps, we need to specify the codec and settings here. Old mp3's encoded with god knows what at 128 CBR and a modern codec (AAC, Opus) encoded at 128-192 VBR, properly ReplayGain'ed and then put to blind test will surprise you a lot.
@@TERN666 That's fair, my point of reference is still the difference I heard with mp3s like 15-20 years ago, so it's possible modern codecs have really eliminated a lot of the degradation. I just know that when spotify is on low quality it sounds bad, but when it's on high quality it's almost indistinguishable from my flac library.
@ Yeah, mp3 codecs 20 years ago were really bad. As to Spotify, they use Vorbis afaik. But it's nearly impossible to compare it as multiple factors are in play here: 1. You don't know what mastering they have and the mastering you have in lossless could be different, thus the difference. 2. You need to have two files level-matched as a 0.1 dB loudness difference will screw up the test. Instead, take your lossless file, convert it to aac, opus, vorbis with smth like foobar, scan both files with ReplayGain to match their levels, use ABX plugin to perform the blind test. You''ll be surprised at how low you can go with bitrate before you start noticing the difference (128 kbps VBR? Maybe even lower on a vast majority of music) Cheers
Thanks a lot for trying to keep this crazy hobby somewhat grounded 👌 I enjoy your based and logical approach. Would love to see a video on basic/advanced EQ, to get more people into EQ'ing.
My comment really regarding EQ for anybody who thinks it is a bad idea and should never be used one you are completely wrong. EQ is used when recording the actual music, it is also used when mastering for different music formats so even at the point when you first get your album regardless of what format you listen to it on EQ as already played a massive part in how that music sounds so to say that you should never use EQ because it’s tampering with the sound and not how the artist intended it. That’s a load of rubbish and people that think that should take a long step back and think long and hard about what they are trying to accomplish in the hobby because you’re meant to be enjoying the sound of your music and use everything to hand to make music sound better to your independent taste
I do enjoy a nice tier chart. I might have bumped up 128kbps as I have tested that in music files as its very noticeably worse, even 256 and above sounds much better
Can be for sure. I think in my framing of this, having a decent seal is a baseline requirement for a tip, and the difference I'm ranking is starting from there.
If there was a box for 192 kbps Opus -> Lossless, I would put it solidly in F tier. Opus may technically be a lossy codec, but I have never been able to pass a blind test between 192 Opus and FLAC. As far as I can tell it's completely audibly transparent.
Thanks for creating this list, Mark! It's super helpful for people (beginner or experienced) to get a clear perspective on things in the hobby. Thanks also for aligning the boxes perfectly to the tier-list grid, thereby avoiding certain viewers' OCDs getting triggered... 😬
Thank you & HiFiGo. Biggest takeaway. "If you know what your doing with EQ" This could be a series of videos Where the different horns of a band lies on your squiglink where the piano sits on that graph etc. etc. Just a thought. I know this is Not your thing. But very educational. Thanks.
Im glad i started up my audio journey now with all the new tech. My focus shifted in the few short months. Seems a great headset or iem that can EQ like s beast is more important than a standard stock tuning, at least to me anyway. 😂
Imo dac amp should be in B tier purely because background noise level is soooo important for me. A lot of dac amps I tried are unusable for me just because the background noise on them through my iem is just too unbearable. This is a problem with many high end dac amps as well.
Definitely go over the AAC vs LDAC. Archimago did a deep dive and found AAC on newer apple devices was actually better than LDAC. I use iFi go pods on an iPhone with a bunch of IEMs and even go back and forth between that and desktop with a V550 and there is effectively no difference that I can tell. Solid tier list. Echoes my experience. Unit variation for IEMs seems to vary by branded or unbranded drivers. Or moondrop - they seem to vary massively with their unbranded drivers.
Yeah, if you start with AAC files like on Apple Music and stream Bluetooth from an Apple Device over AAC, my understanding is that there's zero transcoding, so you're just Bluetooth-ing the file exactly. No loss. Some devices seem bad at AAC encoding though, I'm not sure why.
Absolutely love your latest set of videos. Pads in particular surprised me how big of a difference they make. I picked up a ZMF Caldera recently and was mildly disappointed cause they sounded kind of hollow to me out of the box. I pad swapped them with a suede pad and now it's like one of my favorite headphones. A TRUE night and day difference in comparison to the nothing sandwich different amps and dacs give at the same output impedance.
This does remind me of a funny experience i remember, audio guys back in 2012 n ol started taking about flac format, and we used to get WAV coz we ripped those from the music CDs. So my then audiophile friends told me they could show me the difference, i okayed the challenge n brought them my WAV files and then 320 kbps mp3 files which i renamed flac and made them listen. They all chose the Flac files to be more resolving, whereas all i did was copy the 1141 or something kbps wav, convert it to mp3 (thats what my software could do) and rename them to flac. Those guys still dunno that 🙂↔️
Another informative banger, especially for a newbie (like myself). I’ve been stressing on gear upgrades, and this video really helped out and put things into perspective.
Thank you for this. I was always into hi-res audio before family life got in the way. After watching your videos, this week I decided to get myself a DAP, so I picked up a Hiby R4 and a pair of KD EDX Pro's IEMs (which I'm impressed with for the price). Once again, I agree with your way of thinking. I found Ear Tips really made a big difference, much more than I ever thought they would. Thank you once again for a great video! Now I'm off to enjoy my FLAC and 320kbps music (actually, I just love music).
@SuperReview Although I like you listen to music I know and love, I discovered the new Mary Chapin Carpenter album which is beautiful and sounds lovely. I have quite a variety of music that I like, quite eclectic really. Back to your chart, and honestly, I've been trying my Sony hi-end Bluetooth headphones, playing with EQs etc, but honestly, your biggest tip is the ear-bud tips... The difference they can make really surprised me. And yes, I can hear the difference between 128 Vs 320 MP3s, but I can't tell the difference between 320 and FLAC. Maybe it's because I'm just over 50 (and yes, you should point out, age does make a difference!)
I agree totally. However, I might move amps to C tier as there are audible differences between them based on their topographies. And amp can be “tuned” to produce more of a particular frequency. DACs, as a separate entity, don’t make a difference. We can’t hear ones and zeroes but the conversion to analog is what’s an amp is playing back and any differences in sound comes from those characteristics, not from DACs. Just my thoughts. 🙂
I enjoy my CA Andromeda 2020 (i know, i know...), so amps would land in B tier for me, because I find the background hiss on even an apple dongle quite bothersome. So in terms of sound enjoyment, just upgrading to a dongledac that doesnt have this issue was meaningful to me :) I never did any testing with bitrate or LDAC stuff, since I don't really care that much, but I find the other things mentioned to be ranked fair and reasonable. (also i'm addicted to trying new eartips haha)
Yeah, background hiss is an element I should've pointed out in this. When we ran through this exercise on my Discord server, we talked about that being just about the only audible difference on DACs and amps.
So, Mark, exactly when did this deafness kick in? I prescribe an exquisitely hand-carved wooden headphone with a high end cable...🙃 A couple of serious points: - Diminishing returns should be acknowledged - $300 IEM over $30 much higher tier than $1000>$300, and so on. - There people in the field with super ears, where anything D and above affects them like an Anor an S. But there are exponentially more poseurs who pretend to be and couldn't A/B anything under your C tier. - Many manufacturers would be put out of business if the market follwed this faithfully. Fun video - keep up the good work!!
I'd put amps/dacs in B, tbh the first time I went from a cheap speaker amp to a moderately priced one I was in awe and then it happened the second time when I got a moderately priced headphone dac/amp. Now I do not think its going to happen again if I buy more expensive gear because of diminishing returns but it did happen for me.
Hi ! I think you should have add speaker-amp synergy because it is one of the reason some people swap amp and speakers so many times. Some speakers have impedance-phase anomalies that gives a hard time for some types of amps, so they need an iron fist to give their best. Thanks !
With EQ this is why im getting tanchjim origin that has smooth frequency with beautiful vocals with high quality dd with low distortion then eq it with meta tuning or any hype sound signature i like it boosted its sub bass 20 to 30 db to feel the sauce (emersion rumble) or at your comfort bass range cuz this also has defined bass (quick & well controlled) with its advanced tech impedance (does control peak & distortion of high treble frequency) & endgame dd quality👌✨️
I don't like headphones or earbuds because I want to listen to music in the space I'm in, not have it awkwardly pumped directly into my ears through some wearable device on my head. "Music production quality" is indeed the most important thing. But if you're talking about digital files or CDs, the next most noticeable elements are the amp and the DAC. I've A/B tested many pieces of equipment (amps, DACs, speakers) using "audio-showroom"-type switches. The differences are immediately audible. It's not a question of "sufficiency" -- it's that different models use different electronics that have different sound characteristics. That's why there are so many amps and DACs on the market. Each has its own sonic "personality."
I have a friend who is againts EQ at all cost, and stated himself as a "purist", like yeah bro, keep burning your money and complain about not having money 😂
Its impressive how bluetooth evolved so much this decade. I still have my fiio btr1 and compared to my fiio btr5 or shangling up5 its night and day with ldac on.
Agree with most takes but amps should be moved up to be or A tier, my old Fiio E10 sounds way spicier on thee treble than my Fiio k11 r2r and those sound fairly different than a tube amp. Much bigger difference than 320 to flac/lossless imho.
Very educational, I think it will help a lot of people. Though I disagree with you about DACs and Amps, they make a difference in sound to some extent that I can perceive. Tier C and B respectively. Thanks
Mostly agreed but personally I'd move Amps up to C or maybe even B, specifically because tube amps exist and these do sound way different on a high impedance headphone.
An Apple dongle isn't a bottleneck for any headphone or IEM except when it comes to power output as in a better headphone or IEM will make a bigger difference then the same money spent on anything else. Imo that puts it succinctly to those who haven't had the change to compare amps and DACs. Makes me sad to see people getting their first setups having more money in amps and DACs.
Ya, I just got a pristine iPhone SE 64gb (2016 Model) for $30 since my apple dongles I use on the go always break so fast lol. Has Cirius Logic chips and a headphone jack, so no need to keep rebuying $10 dongles. Then when I'm at home, I use the Onix Alpha XI1 with my PC.
@hartyewh1 Ok so an apple dongle isn't a bottleneck, but that doesn't mean that dongles can't change sound quality. I have an ibasso dc elite (400$) and I have to say it improves iems to the point where I might as well say it sounds like a different iem. I mean, the detail is so apparent and the separation is really great. Everything is super clean and layered within the soundstage. Which also makes dynamics so apparent at all frequencies. I feel like it sounds cleaner and more dynamic than my desktop gear. So yes, compared to an apple dongle you can absolutely get better dacs/amps, like I find it funny how people will pay an extra 400$ or ever thousands for an iem but won't pay the price to make all their collection sound better. On the other extreme, others will pay thousands to get a bit more soundstage depth with help of a good measuring clean tube amp or whatever... But if they already don't need any headphones and need that last bit of improvement, in their mind their only option is to upgrade dacs/amps, which I think is reasonable.
@hartyewh1 And the second I wanted to say is that you could reply to me "ok, but paying so much to improve sound quality a little bit is not worth it", which is true, however would we be in the hobby if we didn't care about improving sound quality? I don't think so, in that case I don't think we would be watching this video (or channel).
@@SuperReviewI would say: EQ because of Personal reasons and because it pushes your speakers into an area they are not engineered for. It's mostly damage control but it won't save bad or wrong speakers or headphones. Output impedance (Only on newer headphones because they are more efficient). The output impedance on headphone amps rely on a part of the device that doesn't interact with the signal itself. I would push Dacs and (pre)amps up because I own multiple (pre)amps for different reasons (headphone amp/ guitar amp/ phono preamp/ mic preamp). They are the first step (after the dac) that interacts with the audio signal and shape the basic sound characteristics and quality the rest of the chain has to work with. A tube preamp has interchangeable tubes with different sounds that can vary quite extreme depending on the code of the tube and also between the companies that make them. Preamps and Final output interact quite drastically. In transistor amps the sound quality relies on how fast the transistors and diodes can shift and how they are matched (tolerance). Also: Different diode types have different sound characteristics. The balance and quality of the parts is what makes high end gear so expensive.
Well eq helps mostly tho ear phones and headphones doesn't really need much amp but with big speakers or higher volume its really helps controls its frequency to prevent distortions on higher volumes this why amps has decent chip helps it delivers cleaner safe frequencies not sure 3.5 is enough to controll frequency safer but im looking forward for amp the has frequency capacity limiter kinda products in the future👌✨️
@caixeftxseventh340 You can do this also with a loudness circuit in the preamp. Eq won't fix a small soundstage or lack of details. You can't turn a bass heavy headphone or speaker into one with detailed highs or vice versa. The best form of Eq in my opinion is an actual hearing aid.
For me I feel like the Bluetooth ---> Wired depends on a few things. Take for example Audible. I have listened to my Audible books on the Audible App with different wireless Bluetooth devices and, for me, so far my favorite are the Amazon Echo Earbuds. I have a lot of different wireless IEMs but those sound the best but when I go from those to a high end wired IEM, I don't really hear much difference at all BUT for music, if I go from my Echo's to my wired IEMs I can definitely hear a big difference. That being said, Audible is a basic app. There's no EQ, MSEB etc. to play with. It's kind of like a one-size fits all for sound. Listening to audiobooks and songs through PowerAmp though I can hear a difference between my Echo's and a wired IEM because through PowerAmp I can adjust the EQ, MSEB and so on to fit the device I'm using but again there's a big difference for me between Bluetooth and wired IEMs in PowerAmp. I definitely prefer wired IEMs. Not to mention the fact that anytime you are listening to audio through a Bluetooth device, the default compression is SBC which means lowest quality and higher latency than any other compression type. So, in this case, even the best Bluetooth IEM on the market will sound just the same as a pair of $50 Bluetooth IEMs and the audio you are listening too is just not going to sound any better unless you switch over to a wired IEM or use a Bluetooth IEM that supports AAC and so on like the Amazon Echo Buds do.
Actually default is usually "best compatible", sometimes excluding LDAC (tends to have stability issues). So if both devices support SBC, ACC and aptX, for example, aptX will be used. But also SBC is not as bad as you might think. As long as connection is good and there are no intentional bitrate limitations it is comparable to AAC (and better than AAC on android), basic aptX and 330Kb LDAC. The most "fair" way to compare BT vs wired, as well as different BT codecs, is by taking something like FiiO BTR15 and using the same IEMs/headphones in all modes with the same source, software etc. And my opinion is - in most cases blind test will show similar results to 320Kb MP3 vs FLAC...
Idk man, when you listen to music on youtube music at high, I'm pretty sure it's 256kbps AAC and it sounds just as good as the highest 320kbps ogg vorbis sound from spotify on the same equipment. I guess C tier makes sense since you can have files that are poorly encoded when they get compressed to a lossy format, like you're going from a lossy file to a smaller lossy file, and you can have well encoded files when they get compressed, like you're going from a lossless file to a lossy file
Another educational video I love it. I wish there were similar videos when I first got into the hobby not too long ago. I would appreciate a video on impedance and decibel sensitivity and all that techie stuff that I have no idea how to read all I know impedance low good maybe I'm wrong about that too
That video is awesome. Thank you! I am really thinking about buying some bluetooth headphones like the B&W PX8. But I just don't know. You should do a tier list for those kind of headphones.
@@SuperReview Thanks for your answer. I will. I am trying my ie 600 with the 3.5mm unbalanced cable right now. Don`t know, if there is any difference. I am listening via the Apple dongle and an iPhone. Still not sure, If I need my Aune M1p anymore....
I'd argue to put DACs to C atleast. I went from a cheap no name 16bit 24hz dongle to a Fiio BTR3k and the difference was massive to me. It makes a difference depending on what are you comparing.
Burn in is definitely a B. If you ever owned a brand new Sennheiser HD559. The soundstage and imaging is inside your head when you playback binaural sound. After 100 hours of playback every thing opens up. AMPs is the same it depends what type of headphones you are trying to drive. Very expensive headphones tend to have a bigger response to different Amps.
I kind of see your point and agree wit the general ideas you had but I really don't agree with the terminology necessarily. for example the difference going from bluetooth to wired I would say has been great for me majorly. I'd agree it's not the bluetooth and encoding limitations itself but even with the same sound signature (using eq) between high quality tws and iems is a lot. I'm not sure exactly what the reason is but I'd say it's a combination of power, chamber and chip components limitations in tws compared to iems. I experienced a great improvement going from a high end tws like galaxy buds 2 pro to a 20 bucks iem which was unexpected and I'm not the only one who's had this experience.
Yeah I tried to narrow the Bluetooth point to the technology of Bluetooth signal transmission specifically, mostly because I see people getting excited about new lossless Bluetooth codecs and I think it won't make a difference.
I'd have a 320 to flac on a depends on the song basis. Most songs have no difference, but some live albums have notable differences, that's the recordings that matter the most to me in flac. It oscillates from D to B for me.
You rate 320 over FLAC (makes sense, especially trading storage space) but call BT codec irrellevant? LDAC is much more significant than AAC and crap codecs over a quality BT reciever than LDAC is to wired. A DAC makes much more of a difference at each respective playing tier up to 4 figures. The 5 figure dacs limited to 192/24 are pure snake oil for luxury buyers. Pads and eartips for UIEM's are certainly leagues more important than cables (copper is not warm/silver is not cold and detailed 😂)
Awesome episode and informative, though definitely subjective with some objective analysis. :) Thanks. Who am I? ... My drivers: 1. IEM = Ikko OH10 2. Wired: Sennheiser HD600 & HD58X 3. Wired Gaming: Sennheiser Game One 4: Wireless: Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 4 & Sennheiser Momentum TW 4 5. Wirleless Gaming: Razer Blackshark V2 Pro 2023 Edition (they are not bad! for the price of USD120 I got) 6. My jewel: Sennheiser HE 60 DAC, AV, wires, streamers, etc .... secondary. Thinking of getting Sennheiser HD490 Pro. P.S. You don't need to overpay to enjoy the sounds of this world!
Ngl but you do hear some differences between 320 and lossless... Like a few extra notes or slight whispers, extra background details... But then i also do feel like the clarity is better like switching form 720p to 1080p on a 1080p monitor, maybe im biased
You need to stop "feeling" and instead perform a PROPER abx test. The results will blow you way. PS And don't compare audio with video resolution, these comparisons are invalid. The video resolution could be bumped up to infinity as we can always come closer to the screen and see individual pixels or use bigger panels and "justify" 8k, 12k and so on. With audio there's a limit to what you can phisically hear - frequency and amplitude wise. You can't zoom in.
The thing is that you put some myths like burn in in one line with things that make actual difference like different audio formats but it's hard to hear by ear, however the difference is there and measurable. And there are things that should not make a difference like cables, dacs and amps and if they do they are bad and should not be used (unless you like the distortion they introduce which is the case with tube ams i. e.). And of course audio production is paramount, if it's a bad record no amount of gear will remedy that. You could technically make your own re master though but that usually goes beyond the scope of average audiophile.
There are basically three tiers of difference: 1. Differences you can hear, and you can measure. 2. Differences you can't hear, but you can measure. 3. Differences you can hear, but you can't measure. Burn-in fits into Category 3. Hi-Res audio fits into Category 2. Music production / mastering into Category 1.
@SuperReview If you can't measure something it means that either science isn't there yet, or it does not exist. I think that science is pretty advanced nowadays.
Instead of burning an IEM, find a good music maker and try to support him because he will make the biggest difference For me, the biggest difference is the music producer, the extent of his experience, and the quality of his work. I have noticed that you can even listen to two works, both with the same accuracy and download times. The difference between them will be like night and day even though it is an IEM. It is such a difference that it can make the elements sound bad or good.An example of the thing I noticed most is the bass. Some of them make it amazing, and some make it seem like a distortion in the sound and not even bass
Can you make a video compare the sound signature of each streaming platforms, I mean yeah it should be the same (within the same quality) but I'm wondering is there a "true" different ?
@dinhbao3102 Each streaming service has their own unique mastering guidelines and requirements before the files are approved for uploading to their servers. Some are more similar than different, but there can still be various differences in regards to the Average & Peak Levels (measured in LUFS), How OR If they apply either Track and/or Album Normalization, and If they apply Limiting. So, based on those variables alone, the same album or tracks have the potential to sound different when being played on each different streaming service. Refer to iZOTOPE's article titled, "How to master for streaming platforms: normalization, LUFS, and loudness".
re cables: i would just recommend a quick A/B on any new cable you get, and not expect anything; but I have 1 cable that measure well for resistance/continuity (usually all i check for, and no A/B'ing in the past) but this 1 cable absolutely ruins bass quality and blunts treble in an odd way, never heard anything like it. all my other cables that are quite cheap that i like to use (comfort/aesthetics) are just fine as i had assumed before when i was only checking that they manufactured properly and leaving it at that. saw a video about capacitance being a potential problem, i hope to measure capacitance on my cables if i ever get around to getting a capable multimeter and see what my bad cable shows compared to a few cables I use that have no detectable issues.
I would rather not use eq but I believe everyone should use it to find their preferences. I would use eq if there were better smartphone apps for it especially for iOS.
How would YOU rank things differently?
Shout out to HiFiGo for sponsoring Wave Guide. Check out their sales:
- hifigo.com/collections/sales?rfsn=8539789.379f98
"Listening with our own ears"
S RANK
Crazy thought, and I know you've mentioned it before, but volume. It's tough not to put that at S tier? I think that is the first thing I question now when trying new gear or software (on a good day). After an initial, "Wait, am I loving the music or the gear? Because this sounds stellar...", then I say to myself, "Yes, this sounds great...but does it sound "better" just because it's louder?" Could you imagine how different the hobby/market would be if everyone's rig/rigs were volume matched to the individual? I think your ranking would be mostly obvious...
Understanding our perception and recognising that sometimes there may not really be a noticeable change when when we think we hear something different @@_chiaki_nanami_
My video: ua-cam.com/video/-WbVsly1X0w/v-deo.html
There's a huge difference for R2R dac (sounds 3D and clear) versus a delta-sigma chip (sounds clear) so it should be higher on your ranking (row B). I have Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 and Denafrips Ares II 12th.
Amps should be higher on your list (row c) if they have a high damping factor (around 1000) and using a thick 9 AWG speaker wire will hear tight kick drums. I have NAD C298 and PS Audio S300.
I disagree with Unit Variation which should be at the bottom row F. I have never heard a difference.
Missing on your comparison:
- Loudspeaker: Top Row S. Big difference between many kinds of cone speakers, AMT tweeter, planar tweeter.
- subwoofers (sealed, ported, active, bass radiators): row A.
- RCA versus XLR for long distance over 25' is row A. Pause the music and put your ears up to the speaker to hear hiss and noise.
- preamplifier: good versus great will be heard on row B.
- Isoacoustics antivibration feet for speakers: row C
- bi-amping using very good speakers and amps: row C.
- DDC (I use Denafrips Iris 12th): row B.
- Long network cable (75' and 30') connected by a coupler: row S. I would get pauses using a cheap coupler.
- power cables (I use iFi Supanova active noise cancelling). row B.
- cables interconnects. row D.
- speaker cables. row C.
- Network cable: Cheap copper clad aluminum CCA versus 100% copper: I would get pauses using a cheap copper clad aluminum. Row S.
- Row S: clear my ears of wax monthly with this Amazon water squirter: amzn.to/44kweMo
- Row S: room with 4 doors and acoustics treatment or with carpet/curtains/furniture.
- streamers: Row C.
Audiophile rocks > Audiophile stickers > Audiophile doorstops >> Cables > Absolute Polarity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frequency Response, purely in terms of sonic difference 😎
Hi-Res Audio sticker +4 DEF
@@listener-reviews how about Audio Grounding Boxes?
YOU FORGOT THE PURPLE FUSES!
Audiophile acoustic rugs are game changers.. Night and day difference. Audiophile powerplants, clean current form a renewable energy source is key. Nuclear power messes with PRAT.
@@ptpoul I'm a fan of that warm sound you get from hydropower energy
I can't believe no one is disagreeing with the dac/amp take. I have never done this for standalone dacs, but for dac/amps I can confidently pick what I am listening to, in a blind test. As an obvious example, listening to an Apple dongle (and this is not the blind test I am talking about) with an hd600 it's a night and day difference, even compared to a small mobile dac/amp like an E1DA or Questyle m15i.
Before hearing any explanation to taint what I would write, I wrote this before watching. As a musician, electrical engineer, and relative newbie in the Hi-Fi game, I'd rank like so
S: Music Production. Having worked in this as a hobby, a good/bad mix can utterly destroy enjoyment of a song. Even "good" mixes can sound good or bad to some people. I cannot listen to any Taylor Swift for example because of how far forward she is in the mix and how I find her voice grating. (EDIT: This is also only talking about mixes and not going down the rabbit hole you can when you start going into mic placement on drums/speaker cabs/etc., There is so much producer discretion that can affect the recording) The amount of variance here is vast.
S: Headphones. This is the last part of your signal chain and the "filter" your clean analog signal hits before it hits your ears (with exception of the air between the driver and your ear, but that's nitpicking). Even with EQ, finding a good headphone with a good curve out of the box, charactristics for sound stage, drivability for your hardware, comfort, etc. is crucial.
S: 128 to 320kbps: I can easily ABX this. It is very apparent in most genres of music when you go from a 128 to 320kbps MP3
S: Bluetooth to Wired: Big for a reason that is not really sound quality, but latency. That is all. I will die on that hill even though it really isn't about sound.
A: Amps. This is more of a relative rating. When trying to get into the hobby, many people just plug a 3.5mm into their PC and leave it at that. However, higher power amps REALLY makes the vastness of options within hi-fi headphone community possible with the existence of low sensitivity or high imepedance headphones (or both if you're Susvara or Tungsten). As such, relative to what people typically come from with their PC's audio jack, relatively speaking, an Amp is very important. From high quality amp to high quality amp? Solid State to Tube? I would be torn between C and D.
A: EQ. As an amateur producer/musician, EQ is one of the most important tools in any mix, to help tame/bump frequencies that are lacking in a headphone (i.e. add more Subbass to the 6xx, or tuning out the 8kHz peak in any of Beyer's stuff). I would argue it's not as important as getting a solid pair of cans right off the bat so EQ'ing is minimal, but it still is a very important tool to shape sound to the users liking (or towards the Harman Curve like a normie).
B: Unit variation. This is assuming something extreme like Headphone Show's FiiO FT1 Pro, where they had a unit with an unbalanced channel. Defects between units make unit variation a bit more important, but when there are no defects, this is more like a D, almost an F to me. Most changes between drivers/units should be inaudible, unless you're buying some cheaper headphones where the build quality can affect the sound like in the undermentioned case.
C: Pad-wear/Swaps: More a comfort thing. If you have an HD 600 or any similar headphone where the pads legitimately implode within a few months, then sure, the space between the driver and your ear does change (but those headphones also have very rolled off bass, which is the main frequency band that distance changes due to the wave passing your ears by, so you don't really hear it as much). This is tough, since a Dekoni or ZMF pad with high density foam will not wear nearly as bad as a trash set. Call it a wash, it's kinda important.
D: DACs: D for DAC. Also, most DACs do the thing. So long you get one with a noise floor that isn't trash, it does the thing. If I had to ABX a D10 to a Ferrum Wandla, I probably would struggle to tell you the difference. The only thing keeping this out of F is the fact that I can get some cool DACs that bake items like EQ into them (e.g. RME ADI-2) which give them some level of functionality beyond just converting bits to wubs.
D: 320kbps to Lossless: Do a true ABX test. I'll wait. MAYBE you hear some hiss in cymbals with some of the most analytical listening to point you one way or the other, but then you really aren't enjoying the music you bought all this gear for and more trying to justify its existence in your house. Only reason this is in D is perhaps there are some that are able to hear many things between the two in a true ABX test without trying. For them, I'll throw a bone.
F: Cables. If a manufacturer of headphones is not providing a cable with low resistance/capacitance/inductance and decent connectors out of the box, somethings wrong. In fact, looking at the frequencyh response chart in The Headphone Show's "Cables DO Matter" video, the people making these huge twisted cables for show, I notice a touch of high-end roll off. They literally added some level of inductance to their cable, made a poor highpass filter in the media to TRANSFER audio - not filter it - and rolled off some of the treble of the mix. Nawh man, not for me. If your cable is EQ'ing/filtering your mix, you're crazy.
F: Burn-In. :^)
F: Hi-Res Audio: I didn't know you hated storage space/bandwidth so much to store/stream files with no perceptible gain over Lossless.
The rest I have no comment on, or haven't personally used.
im not reading all that (i already did)
Thanks for sharing.
You must go on about the music production.
It's hard to believe a well established band with funds doesn't always come away with a well recored uncompressed album.
Is the producer/engineer looking at the final product to sound good enough on a cheap car speaker ?
@GrantsPerspective
CRIKEY, mate! Massive WALL OF TEXT.
One word: Paragraphs!
This video will likely save people hundreds or thousands of dollars. Nicely done.
Or they'll just divert DAC funds to ear tips 🤌
You forgot that packaging included waifu immediately S tier /s
I would need to add an S++ tier.
In the debate between high quality mp3 vs lossless, I agree that the difference in sound quality is minimal. But I think buying lossless makes more sense because it can be converted to other (future) formats without quality loss. Can’t say the same about mp3.
your latest videos are stellar. thanks for covering these topics!
Any suggestions for new topics?
@@SuperReview the new Thieaudio thing with 19 drivers would be a good time talk about whether more drivers make a difference
@@SuperReview How to scam the audio community: Make contradictory videos praising high end, and then bashing it. The guide to clicks!
@@SuperReview I'm interested in hearing more about your personal music tastes and habits! For instance, I've been listening to your recommendation of Mutations by Nilüfer Yanya and it's pretty neat. Also, your tutorial video on roadie wraps were really helpful as a quality of life kind of thing.
Honestly feel like almost everything is spot on. The only thing I'd make a small argument for is DACs and Amps. I would put DACs in C (I can hear a noticeable difference in R2R vs DS DACs) and Amps in B. Tube amps absolutely can make a substantial difference in sound, I might even put specifically tube amps higher in A. Tube rolling can change that tube sound quite a bit.
I would probably agree in principle but a DAC on its own doesn’t matter in the long run. I think you only hear DAC differences based on how an amp plays back the converted digital signals.
However, amps can certainly be moved up to C tier because there are differences between solid state and tubes. And when combined with D/A conversion, the characteristics of those amps will remain intact. I’m sure some won’t agree but that’s just my take.
Despite only making a small difference, being on the same rating as cables is something I wholly disagree.
@@Camride I have heard dac differences, but we are talking an O2 dac, to an old dacmagic dac, and from a dacmagic to the dac in the fiio k9 pro headphone amp. So in my experience once you reach a certain baseline dacs probably don't matter unless you want to colour the signal.
The same with amps above a certain level it is about colouration of the sound or more power/voltage/current to match a certain hard to drive headphone. But At this point many headphone amps come out with multiple watt per channel power. That is more than enough...
I was going to say the same. I can, in blind tests, tell the difference between my DACs with the ESS vs CS vs R2R that I own fairly consistently. I can't tell the difference between solid state amps most times. I do find I can tell the difference between my tube amps but how much that is the hiss vs the warmth I'm not sure. I do
@@housepianistOf course. You cannot hear electricity signal. You only can hear accoustic signal 😂😂😂. You do not understand how to make comparison. If you want compare two DAC, you must use all other except the DAC is SAME. The SPL (Sound Pressure Level) also must same.
„How sleepy you are“ - S+ tier
Thought I was the only one lol
@@hyper_92 definitely not - sometimes in the evening I found literally every headphone and IEM I regularly love sounded like absolute garbage 😂😂
I eq everything. once you know how to dial it in, it becomes a game changer. just a quick example: i eq'ed my $6 sleeping iems (kbear dumpling) to match my prefered tuning and it now sounds just about perfect.
Brave, bold and beautiful!
LOL
I would go as far as putting 128->320 in A or even S tier.
I can still remember the time i downloaded an album (Which came free when you buy the CDs) from Amazon (which was supposedly 320kbps mp3 but turned out to be in the realm of 200ish) and it was just CRUSHED to death. Guitars and drums kind of melted together and it was so bad listening to it. I would have ripped it myself but thought that it would save me some time and i just wanted to get going and listen to it on the go.
Later when i got the CD i ripped 320 myself and it was night and day. Seperation and clarity was just insanely better.
I haven't been lazy ever since and ripped all my CDs myself xD
And a small take from me regarding the whole Bluetooth wired thing: I have been using a Fiio BTR3K (LDAC) with all my IEMs and i didn't hear any difference BUT i have had bad experiences when i used EQ (Wavelet) and my Fiio because Bass suffered heavily for some reason whenever i EQ'd.
Maybe its just wavelet acting up but when i use EQ nowadays i go wired because of that reason.
Interesting that Wavelet maybe caused issues with the Bluetooth transcode. Do you apply a negative gain with Wavelet?
Wavelet set buffer size to 1024 and also ldac to high quality mode from developer settings?(My setup rn is 7hz timeless+ btr3k +eq)
@Dark-dx1kv My buffersize is at 4096 (Which is default i suppose?) but i havent fiddled with the dev settings so maybe i try that :D
@SuperReview I have EQ'd the Zero Reds to the Deuce to kind of get a feel before buying the deuce and thats when i heard the issues. There are definitely Negative gains in the Treble and mids but huge gains in the bass (duh) so maybe its just the buffer size but i will give that a try later if i feel like it. There is no reason for me anymore because i got the deuce (and they are my favs by far)
@@basti329 set at 1024 its better also our cpus are more than fast enough
Higher buffer size = higher latency
You want to keep buffer size as low as possible without hearing any clicks or other artifacts
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oratory1990
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This is it.
Buffer size is how much „time“ you give the processor to finish the calculations. More powerful processors can do it in a shorter time and hence can work with lower buffer sizes.
It only affects latency. Larger buffer size than necessary has zero beneficial effects
I would like to see enviroment as a factor too. In loud homes maybe close to the street with lots of vehicle traffic, or just being outside the external sounds seems to be affecting my enjoyement and the experience of the music in considerable way maybe a- to b tier importance IMO
„Placebo“ - A Tier - while f.e. most probably can’t hear the differences between 320kbits mp3 & flac, I definitely feel better listening to flac - knowing it is flac makes the music sound better to me if that makes any sense
EQ is where it's at. I have USB Audio Pro with Tone Boosters' which gives me 10 bands of PEQ, and it makes it possible to voice my IEM's pretty any way I like. I actually think pads and tips made huge differences. The re-tip of the Dusk to Azla Sedna Lights, and my EA 500 LM's to Devinus Velvets dramatically enhanced the seal for those IEM's and with it the bass extension and impact. Likewise, the swap to Dekoni sheepskin pads on my Hd 800's and LCD X's, changed both of phones dramatically for the better.
As for stuff like Dacs and cables, no difference unless the cable is microphonic, then big difference.
For power get enough and just about everything out there is transparent. And don't worry about Hi Res. Just do Flac and enjoy.
Excellent vid - I fully agree with this ranking!
Greetings! Still waiting your review of Arya Unveiled...
The transformation will be fully complete when The Headphones Show and Super* Review turn into music review channels with EQ tutorials.
@SuperReview literally what we're working on
But the guys on head-fi disagree!! Placebo is real 😄
@ Of course they do. I wonder how many have doing any blind testing.
Hey Mark.. I kinda disagree with the Bluetooth vs Wired argument.
I think Bluetooth causes a noticeable degradation in quality and I would put that atleast in B tier.
One easy way you can test it out is buy a Bluetooth adapter from KZ or Trn or Fiio.
That way you can test out the same iem both wired and Bluetooth.
The BT version definitely sounds choked, has more noise floor .
You might not be wrong about those products (I haven't tested them, but I believe you), but I would add that using products like those, you're also changing the DAC/amp stage, and there's probably also some low-level CPU / microcontroller. Here's my understanding:
AAC and LDAC bitrates exceed the bitrates at which I can hear a difference between lossy compression (MP3) and lossless. Which suggests (1) any loss in audible sound quality over those codecs is likely due to the stages in between, and (2) increasing Bluetooth bandwidth to lossless-capable won't on its own improve sound quality.
@@SuperReviewYeah , if you strictly boil it down to a matter of codecs, I don't think Ldac improves the sound quality over Aac by a noticeable degree..
But those adapters are definitely doing something that's worsening the audio quality.
There's often a constant zzzz sound (noise floor) that's audible on paying close attention. When that mixes up with the music , the incisive nature of the iem takes a hit.
The upper treble takes a hit. Making the iem sound narrower.
Overall giving it a congested feel.
How big is the change?
Not much. Maybe a solid 5%.
But it's definitely there
AAC can measurably alter the frequency response in quite a significant way depending on the device you have. Sometimes attenuating everything past 13khz. They also have significantly different noise filters depending on the content selected. LDAC, however, tries to keep distortion shape filters as linear as it can pushing everything outside the audible band. 990kb the noise floor is at -116dB which is identical to 16bit dithered CD quilty. My android phone will defult to LDAC 660, which is around -100db dynamic range, but pushing the shape filter into the audible band with -74db at 15hkz. I still can't notice the difference between 990 and 660, but it isn't equal to CD quilty like 990 is. You can use apps on the android store to force the phone to stay at a certain codac. Alternatively, you use developer mode.
@@En_Joshi-Godrez
Agreed. Similar findings here.
I'm a musician who has had a home recording studio for over 14 years (drums/percussion & saxophone).
A few years ago I decided to use a relatively inexpensive pair of Kali Audio IN-8 2nd Wave active studio monitors in my master bedroom as a casual listening setup and for occasionally listening to my rough mixes in a different environment.
I combined the Kali studio monitors with an iFi ZEN Blue v2 Bluetooth receiver which supports most of the modern BT codecs including LDAC.
I keep a Samsung Galaxy TAB S7+ tablet on the nightstand next to the bed for general web browsing, email, content consumption, and music listening, etc.
I have a 512GB microSD card inserted in the tablet that is loaded with FLAC files rip'd from my CD and Vinyl LP collection as well as some of my own recordings. I can also use various streaming services via the tablet.
When enabling the Developer Options in the settings of this Android-based tablet, I can connect to the iFi ZEN Blue v2 Bluetooth Receiver and almost instantly switch between SBC/AAC/APT-X/LDAC and the variable bitrates as well.
IME, there is a Clearly NOTICEABLE Difference in Clarity, Soundstage/Imaging Focus & Expansiveness, and in some cases the Noise Floor when switching between ALL of the other Codecs and LDAC @ 990/900kbps, with the latter being superior (sometimes by a large margin).
This will obviously be dependent on the quality of the original music that is being played in regards to its recording, mixing, and mastering quality.
YMMV
Honestly after A/B testing most of these things, I came to realize that I cannot hear any difference in sound under A tier. Maybe except for the ear tips. But compared to EQ/headphones/production/impedance, other differences are minuscule at best.
The perils of A-B testing.
Listening is a skill.
Do I need skill to enjoy music or to nitpick it? Because the latter isn't worth thousands of dollars for most.
@ Make a video demonstrating your listening skill or keep your self-congratulating delusions to yourself.
honestly while eq-ing, i can only hear differences if go above 6 db🤦🏻
Mark, thank you for your honesty as always. I know I’ll be coming back to this video every time I feel the urge to upgrade, just to remind myself where my investment truly makes a difference. This aligns so much with what I’ve learned through my own experience.
Couldn’t agree more about music production being at the top of the hierarchy. I listen to music from around the world, and some albums from India are especially dear to me. There’s a UA-cam channel called The Mastering Project, run by a renowned, award-winning sound engineer, where he legally remasters some of these tracks. Some of them are from the ’80s and ’90s, but his mastering work is so good that I actually ditch Apple Music Lossless just to listen to his versions on UA-cam.
I’ve been through my fair share of DACs, amps, and cables, but I’ve ultimately downsized to a simple FiiO dongle DAC, Truthear Hexa, S12, and HD560S. And honestly, I couldn’t be happier.
It’s refreshing to see creators like you cutting through the noise and keeping the focus on what really matters and that is helping people invest in the right things to truly enjoy the music they love. Keep doing what you do!
Got a link to those remasters? I'm curious to see how far you can improve a track without access to the OG source tapes.
@@SuperReview Posted two comments with the links. Not sure what happened, but they have disappeared 😕
I agree with EQ. I'm new to audiophile headphones world, and I just recently bought a HD650. I quite like the stock sound but I wish there's a bit more sub-bass and quite dislike the Sennheiser 'veiled' midrange. After eq (oratory1990), the HD650 is in a whole new level and might be the only open back headphone I need.
I understand 'purist' would advice newcomers to avoid eq at all cost, but as someone who live at a place where there's no way to test/listen to headphones/IEMs/DAC-Amps, I can only rely on online reviews, and EQ is the only way to remedy anything that is lacking (or too much of) in the headphone/earphones that I just bought, instead of having tu buy multiple audio gears gadgets just to get the 'perfect' sound for me.
If you do not understand about frequency response, it is better to not use EQ. EQ can be very good tool in right people but also can make it worse for wrong person.
@@bimotok757 We don't need to understand about frequency response, just use your ears and listen to what you like.
Great content, thanks. Have watched enough of your videos, so I’m not surprised with this list 🎉
As an engineer I really enjoyed the systematic way you broke down this topic. Great video, thanks for putting this out!
Hires stickers matter the most.
+1
Saying amps & dacs don't make a significant difference in the sound is absolute waffle... to put it in the same ranking tier as cables is absurd.
If you're talking about cheap dongle dacs, sure - but using something more significant like a Chord Mojo 2 or a tube amp - the difference they can make is enormous.
I don't think this is even subjective.
This is really bad information, period.
Then it should be pretty easy to make a video of a blind A-B test demonstrating how big the difference is! So far I have no takers, you could be the first.
@SuperReview it would be no problem at all for me to take the test blindfolded.
It's very easy for you to say this, because you know full well that it's practically a very difficult thing to do. If I made a video, you could say it was rigged.
I'm not sure about DACs and how much improvement there is between them, because I've always just used the internal DAC of my cd players, but amps all sound different, and in many cases can be as different as the color green is to the color orange. Don't expect Harry Pearson or J.Gordon Holt level, discerning skills on here. At least anytime soon. Our host seems to be technically astute, but needs someone to point out to him and make him understand the finer points of sound quality; many of them involving timbre and spatiality. And the refreshing absence (on the better equipment) of unnatural artifacts in tbe sound such as edge, grain, colorations, lack of transient speed, thinness (lack of body and palpability), glare, electronic signature, and other things that interfere with the "natural" re-creation of sound.
@@sidesup8286 mine have all been combination dac/amps, except for my tube amp, so I'm not sure about DACs either, but I'm not writing it off until I've heard them separately. I have four set up on my WiiM Ultra & they are all very different; Cayin HA-1A MK2, Chord Mojo 2, Topping DX9 & a Sony DMP-Z1. I have a Questyle M15 Dongle for my phone, which sounded a hell of a lot better than the iBasso DCO3 Pro before it, but I just got a FiiO BTR17 as I wanted an ultra portable BT device.
I don't believe in cables or headphone/IEM burn in... it astounds me that someone who is doing such a project as this is just blanket dismissing any possibility for their to any difference whatsoever. His comeback 'no takers so far' is meant to reinforce his opinion & that we are 'scared' to take such a test, but the truth is... and he knows it full well... that from a practical standpoint it is extraordinarily difficult to do. Weak.
I think dacs and amps should probable be at least a step higher, if only because most people are using just whatever is built into their pc, and stepping from that to any dedicated dac/amp makes a noticeable difference. Maybe once you get past that point the difference is a "you really have to be paying attention to notice" thing, but that first step can be a pretty big one.
I agree with that, I think a lot of laptops and PCs have sneakily bad audio output, which is why I often recommend a $9 Apple dongle to anyone getting started. It's a cheap way to eliminate possible problems.
Once I learned how to use PEQ, undid a bunch of assumptions I had about this stuff. It teaches you so much.
Good point, not only is EQ really powerful in terms of sound enjoyment, it's educational.
I would argue eartips make just as big, if not maybe a slightly bigger difference than pad swaps because iems having good isolation from the outside and sticking nicely in your ear will affect the sound a lot, especially bass, but the other frequencies too
I might move 128k to 320k up to A or S, but otherwise this list is incredibly based. Good job!
You might want to try to ABX first. Also, when we talk about 128kbps, we need to specify the codec and settings here. Old mp3's encoded with god knows what at 128 CBR and a modern codec (AAC, Opus) encoded at 128-192 VBR, properly ReplayGain'ed and then put to blind test will surprise you a lot.
@@TERN666 That's fair, my point of reference is still the difference I heard with mp3s like 15-20 years ago, so it's possible modern codecs have really eliminated a lot of the degradation. I just know that when spotify is on low quality it sounds bad, but when it's on high quality it's almost indistinguishable from my flac library.
@ Yeah, mp3 codecs 20 years ago were really bad.
As to Spotify, they use Vorbis afaik. But it's nearly impossible to compare it as multiple factors are in play here:
1. You don't know what mastering they have and the mastering you have in lossless could be different, thus the difference.
2. You need to have two files level-matched as a 0.1 dB loudness difference will screw up the test.
Instead, take your lossless file, convert it to aac, opus, vorbis with smth like foobar, scan both files with ReplayGain to match their levels, use ABX plugin to perform the blind test. You''ll be surprised at how low you can go with bitrate before you start noticing the difference (128 kbps VBR? Maybe even lower on a vast majority of music)
Cheers
Thanks a lot for trying to keep this crazy hobby somewhat grounded 👌
I enjoy your based and logical approach.
Would love to see a video on basic/advanced EQ, to get more people into EQ'ing.
I love your approach to audio 👌
🤙
Just layin' my cards out on the table.
Dac/amp vs my laptops headphone jack is a big difference. Its even a much bigger difference with certain IEMs, you need a dac/amp for sure.
Some laptops / PCs definitely have crummy DAC/amps.
I think you have made a solid assessment of priorities in the chain.
My comment really regarding EQ for anybody who thinks it is a bad idea and should never be used one you are completely wrong. EQ is used when recording the actual music, it is also used when mastering for different music formats so even at the point when you first get your album regardless of what format you listen to it on EQ as already played a massive part in how that music sounds so to say that you should never use EQ because it’s tampering with the sound and not how the artist intended it. That’s a load of rubbish and people that think that should take a long step back and think long and hard about what they are trying to accomplish in the hobby because you’re meant to be enjoying the sound of your music and use everything to hand to make music sound better to your independent taste
I do enjoy a nice tier chart. I might have bumped up 128kbps as I have tested that in music files as its very noticeably worse, even 256 and above sounds much better
IMO B-tier and above is worth spending time on.
I think you underrated ear tips a little bit. The difference between an ear tip that doesn't seal well and one that does is huge!
Can be for sure. I think in my framing of this, having a decent seal is a baseline requirement for a tip, and the difference I'm ranking is starting from there.
@SuperReview yeah makes sense
If there was a box for 192 kbps Opus -> Lossless, I would put it solidly in F tier. Opus may technically be a lossy codec, but I have never been able to pass a blind test between 192 Opus and FLAC. As far as I can tell it's completely audibly transparent.
As a black metal listener. I can vouch for music production
Thanks for creating this list, Mark! It's super helpful for people (beginner or experienced) to get a clear perspective on things in the hobby.
Thanks also for aligning the boxes perfectly to the tier-list grid, thereby avoiding certain viewers' OCDs getting triggered... 😬
Thank you & HiFiGo.
Biggest takeaway.
"If you know what your doing with EQ"
This could be a series of videos
Where the different horns of a band lies on your squiglink
where the piano sits on that graph etc. etc.
Just a thought.
I know this is Not your thing.
But very educational.
Thanks.
I'll definitely do something on EQ.
Im glad i started up my audio journey now with all the new tech.
My focus shifted in the few short months. Seems a great headset or iem that can EQ like s beast is more important than a standard stock tuning, at least to me anyway. 😂
What are you using to EQ?
Im using the PeQ function on the Hiby R4 i just got. Im using my supermix 4 and trying to match it to Jays uploaded line graphs
Imo dac amp should be in B tier purely because background noise level is soooo important for me. A lot of dac amps I tried are unusable for me just because the background noise on them through my iem is just too unbearable. This is a problem with many high end dac amps as well.
Yeah noise floor is honestly a significant aspect with IEMs. Fortunately that's a cheap solve.
I think tips are s or at least a tier. Tips can make a pair of iems go from being trash to sounding like a treasure you thought was trash.
Definitely go over the AAC vs LDAC. Archimago did a deep dive and found AAC on newer apple devices was actually better than LDAC. I use iFi go pods on an iPhone with a bunch of IEMs and even go back and forth between that and desktop with a V550 and there is effectively no difference that I can tell.
Solid tier list. Echoes my experience. Unit variation for IEMs seems to vary by branded or unbranded drivers. Or moondrop - they seem to vary massively with their unbranded drivers.
Yeah, if you start with AAC files like on Apple Music and stream Bluetooth from an Apple Device over AAC, my understanding is that there's zero transcoding, so you're just Bluetooth-ing the file exactly. No loss. Some devices seem bad at AAC encoding though, I'm not sure why.
Absolutely love your latest set of videos.
Pads in particular surprised me how big of a difference they make. I picked up a ZMF Caldera recently and was mildly disappointed cause they sounded kind of hollow to me out of the box. I pad swapped them with a suede pad and now it's like one of my favorite headphones. A TRUE night and day difference in comparison to the nothing sandwich different amps and dacs give at the same output impedance.
Pad swapping is lots of fun, ZMF has a nice selection of pads too!
I would love if you did a video explaining audiophile terms and how they might show up on frequency response, etc.
Good suggestion.
This does remind me of a funny experience i remember, audio guys back in 2012 n ol started taking about flac format, and we used to get WAV coz we ripped those from the music CDs.
So my then audiophile friends told me they could show me the difference, i okayed the challenge n brought them my WAV files and then 320 kbps mp3 files which i renamed flac and made them listen.
They all chose the Flac files to be more resolving, whereas all i did was copy the 1141 or something kbps wav, convert it to mp3 (thats what my software could do) and rename them to flac. Those guys still dunno that 🙂↔️
Also pls review the 28 driver kz, I think it will be perfect in the next iteration when they will fit cent ful of drivers in it
Are my ears big enough?
Very much interesting videos on the channel now a days🎉🎉. I just love it,the uniqueness of the content is great 👍
Another informative banger, especially for a newbie (like myself). I’ve been stressing on gear upgrades, and this video really helped out and put things into perspective.
Thank you for this. I was always into hi-res audio before family life got in the way. After watching your videos, this week I decided to get myself a DAP, so I picked up a Hiby R4 and a pair of KD EDX Pro's IEMs (which I'm impressed with for the price).
Once again, I agree with your way of thinking. I found Ear Tips really made a big difference, much more than I ever thought they would.
Thank you once again for a great video! Now I'm off to enjoy my FLAC and 320kbps music (actually, I just love music).
Any new music discoveries you're into at the moment?
@SuperReview Although I like you listen to music I know and love, I discovered the new Mary Chapin Carpenter album which is beautiful and sounds lovely. I have quite a variety of music that I like, quite eclectic really.
Back to your chart, and honestly, I've been trying my Sony hi-end Bluetooth headphones, playing with EQs etc, but honestly, your biggest tip is the ear-bud tips... The difference they can make really surprised me.
And yes, I can hear the difference between 128 Vs 320 MP3s, but I can't tell the difference between 320 and FLAC.
Maybe it's because I'm just over 50 (and yes, you should point out, age does make a difference!)
Excellent video! Thank you! Love your work and attitude.
🤙
I agree totally. However, I might move amps to C tier as there are audible differences between them based on their topographies. And amp can be “tuned” to produce more of a particular frequency. DACs, as a separate entity, don’t make a difference. We can’t hear ones and zeroes but the conversion to analog is what’s an amp is playing back and any differences in sound comes from those characteristics, not from DACs.
Just my thoughts. 🙂
I enjoy my CA Andromeda 2020 (i know, i know...), so amps would land in B tier for me, because I find the background hiss on even an apple dongle quite bothersome. So in terms of sound enjoyment, just upgrading to a dongledac that doesnt have this issue was meaningful to me :)
I never did any testing with bitrate or LDAC stuff, since I don't really care that much, but I find the other things mentioned to be ranked fair and reasonable.
(also i'm addicted to trying new eartips haha)
Yeah, background hiss is an element I should've pointed out in this. When we ran through this exercise on my Discord server, we talked about that being just about the only audible difference on DACs and amps.
Any favorite ear tips?
@@SuperReview Moondrop Spring, Audiosense S400, Eletech baroque. (Honorable mentions: Spinfit Omni, Softears Ultraclear, Divinus velvet)
Incredibly insightful and helpful! Thank you kind sir.
Thought provoking is I think what its going for
This is great stuff here!
So, Mark, exactly when did this deafness kick in? I prescribe an exquisitely hand-carved wooden headphone with a high end cable...🙃
A couple of serious points:
- Diminishing returns should be acknowledged - $300 IEM over $30 much higher tier than $1000>$300, and so on.
- There people in the field with super ears, where anything D and above affects them like an Anor an S. But there are exponentially more poseurs who pretend to be and couldn't A/B anything under your C tier.
- Many manufacturers would be put out of business if the market follwed this faithfully.
Fun video - keep up the good work!!
I would love to see the super ears people do a blind A-B test!
I'd put amps/dacs in B, tbh the first time I went from a cheap speaker amp to a moderately priced one I was in awe and then it happened the second time when I got a moderately priced headphone dac/amp. Now I do not think its going to happen again if I buy more expensive gear because of diminishing returns but it did happen for me.
Hi ! I think you should have add speaker-amp synergy because it is one of the reason some people swap amp and speakers so many times. Some speakers have impedance-phase anomalies that gives a hard time for some types of amps, so they need an iron fist to give their best. Thanks !
With EQ this is why im getting tanchjim origin that has smooth frequency with beautiful vocals with high quality dd with low distortion then eq it with meta tuning or any hype sound signature i like it boosted its sub bass 20 to 30 db to feel the sauce (emersion rumble) or at your comfort bass range cuz this also has defined bass (quick & well controlled) with its advanced tech impedance (does control peak & distortion of high treble frequency) & endgame dd quality👌✨️
Can you explain how it controls peaks in the treble?
@@mrhenu its a built-in chip or frequency resistor/impedance to control distortion peaks/sharp sound
@@caixeftxseventh340 ok, interesting. I'll have to take a look at this pair
I don't like headphones or earbuds because I want to listen to music in the space I'm in, not have it awkwardly pumped directly into my ears through some wearable device on my head. "Music production quality" is indeed the most important thing. But if you're talking about digital files or CDs, the next most noticeable elements are the amp and the DAC. I've A/B tested many pieces of equipment (amps, DACs, speakers) using "audio-showroom"-type switches. The differences are immediately audible. It's not a question of "sufficiency" -- it's that different models use different electronics that have different sound characteristics. That's why there are so many amps and DACs on the market. Each has its own sonic "personality."
I have a friend who is againts EQ at all cost, and stated himself as a "purist", like yeah bro, keep burning your money and complain about not having money 😂
This was great. More content like this please.
Its impressive how bluetooth evolved so much this decade. I still have my fiio btr1 and compared to my fiio btr5 or shangling up5 its night and day with ldac on.
Just know your chain is going to be limited by its shortest link.
Agree with most takes but amps should be moved up to be or A tier, my old Fiio E10 sounds way spicier on thee treble than my Fiio k11 r2r and those sound fairly different than a tube amp.
Much bigger difference than 320 to flac/lossless imho.
Another video on a unique topic. Loved it. I'd put cables on D too.
🤙 I should've put this on Tiermaker so people could make their own remixes.
Great video
Honorable as always, well done Mark.
🤙
I agree with you on almost all except with DACs, I think they are in C-tier, at least for me.
Very educational, I think it will help a lot of people. Though I disagree with you about DACs and Amps, they make a difference in sound to some extent that I can perceive. Tier C and B respectively. Thanks
Great video Mark. There needs to be a tier called S+ for EQ though :)
I'm gonna be a hater and hold out on S+ tier for EQ.
Pad swaps change the acoustics of the "room" that the headphone drivers are playing in.
hi, is it ok if you review to Tangzu Yu Xuan Ji, Im going to buy it but not sure is it good or bad
thank you
Thanks Mark, love your videos and appreciate your opinion for us Music lovers :)
🤙
Mostly agreed but personally I'd move Amps up to C or maybe even B, specifically because tube amps exist and these do sound way different on a high impedance headphone.
I /kind of/ accounted for tube amps by separating output impedance as its own category, which can have a very definite change.
An Apple dongle isn't a bottleneck for any headphone or IEM except when it comes to power output as in a better headphone or IEM will make a bigger difference then the same money spent on anything else. Imo that puts it succinctly to those who haven't had the change to compare amps and DACs. Makes me sad to see people getting their first setups having more money in amps and DACs.
Agreed.
@@hartyewh1 I think often when people say they hear a difference in amps, it's just because they're listening louder
Ya, I just got a pristine iPhone SE 64gb (2016 Model) for $30 since my apple dongles I use on the go always break so fast lol. Has Cirius Logic chips and a headphone jack, so no need to keep rebuying $10 dongles. Then when I'm at home, I use the Onix Alpha XI1 with my PC.
@hartyewh1 Ok so an apple dongle isn't a bottleneck, but that doesn't mean that dongles can't change sound quality. I have an ibasso dc elite (400$) and I have to say it improves iems to the point where I might as well say it sounds like a different iem. I mean, the detail is so apparent and the separation is really great. Everything is super clean and layered within the soundstage. Which also makes dynamics so apparent at all frequencies. I feel like it sounds cleaner and more dynamic than my desktop gear. So yes, compared to an apple dongle you can absolutely get better dacs/amps, like I find it funny how people will pay an extra 400$ or ever thousands for an iem but won't pay the price to make all their collection sound better. On the other extreme, others will pay thousands to get a bit more soundstage depth with help of a good measuring clean tube amp or whatever... But if they already don't need any headphones and need that last bit of improvement, in their mind their only option is to upgrade dacs/amps, which I think is reasonable.
@hartyewh1 And the second I wanted to say is that you could reply to me "ok, but paying so much to improve sound quality a little bit is not worth it", which is true, however would we be in the hobby if we didn't care about improving sound quality? I don't think so, in that case I don't think we would be watching this video (or channel).
1. Speakers
2. Preamp
3. Source (File+ recording/mix)
Dacs and amps in d tier is wyld tho
What above them do you think makes a lesser difference?
@@SuperReviewI would say:
EQ because of Personal reasons and because it pushes your speakers into an area they are not engineered for. It's mostly damage control but it won't save bad or wrong speakers or headphones.
Output impedance (Only on newer headphones because they are more efficient). The output impedance on headphone amps rely on a part of the device that doesn't interact with the signal itself.
I would push Dacs and (pre)amps up because I own multiple (pre)amps for different reasons (headphone amp/ guitar amp/ phono preamp/ mic preamp). They are the first step (after the dac) that interacts with the audio signal and shape the basic sound characteristics and quality the rest of the chain has to work with.
A tube preamp has interchangeable tubes with different sounds that can vary quite extreme depending on the code of the tube and also between the companies that make them. Preamps and Final output interact quite drastically.
In transistor amps the sound quality relies on how fast the transistors and diodes can shift and how they are matched (tolerance).
Also: Different diode types have different sound characteristics. The balance and quality of the parts is what makes high end gear so expensive.
Well eq helps mostly tho ear phones and headphones doesn't really need much amp but with big speakers or higher volume its really helps controls its frequency to prevent distortions on higher volumes this why amps has decent chip helps it delivers cleaner safe frequencies not sure 3.5 is enough to controll frequency safer but im looking forward for amp the has frequency capacity limiter kinda products in the future👌✨️
@caixeftxseventh340 You can do this also with a loudness circuit in the preamp. Eq won't fix a small soundstage or lack of details. You can't turn a bass heavy headphone or speaker into one with detailed highs or vice versa. The best form of Eq in my opinion is an actual hearing aid.
2:03 you can choose the releases according to the type of masters. Pay the price accordingly
For me I feel like the Bluetooth ---> Wired depends on a few things. Take for example Audible. I have listened to my Audible books on the Audible App with different wireless Bluetooth devices and, for me, so far my favorite are the Amazon Echo Earbuds. I have a lot of different wireless IEMs but those sound the best but when I go from those to a high end wired IEM, I don't really hear much difference at all BUT for music, if I go from my Echo's to my wired IEMs I can definitely hear a big difference. That being said, Audible is a basic app. There's no EQ, MSEB etc. to play with. It's kind of like a one-size fits all for sound.
Listening to audiobooks and songs through PowerAmp though I can hear a difference between my Echo's and a wired IEM because through PowerAmp I can adjust the EQ, MSEB and so on to fit the device I'm using but again there's a big difference for me between Bluetooth and wired IEMs in PowerAmp. I definitely prefer wired IEMs.
Not to mention the fact that anytime you are listening to audio through a Bluetooth device, the default compression is SBC which means lowest quality and higher latency than any other compression type. So, in this case, even the best Bluetooth IEM on the market will sound just the same as a pair of $50 Bluetooth IEMs and the audio you are listening too is just not going to sound any better unless you switch over to a wired IEM or use a Bluetooth IEM that supports AAC and so on like the Amazon Echo Buds do.
Actually default is usually "best compatible", sometimes excluding LDAC (tends to have stability issues). So if both devices support SBC, ACC and aptX, for example, aptX will be used. But also SBC is not as bad as you might think. As long as connection is good and there are no intentional bitrate limitations it is comparable to AAC (and better than AAC on android), basic aptX and 330Kb LDAC.
The most "fair" way to compare BT vs wired, as well as different BT codecs, is by taking something like FiiO BTR15 and using the same IEMs/headphones in all modes with the same source, software etc. And my opinion is - in most cases blind test will show similar results to 320Kb MP3 vs FLAC...
Idk man, when you listen to music on youtube music at high, I'm pretty sure it's 256kbps AAC and it sounds just as good as the highest 320kbps ogg vorbis sound from spotify on the same equipment. I guess C tier makes sense since you can have files that are poorly encoded when they get compressed to a lossy format, like you're going from a lossy file to a smaller lossy file, and you can have well encoded files when they get compressed, like you're going from a lossless file to a lossy file
Another educational video I love it. I wish there were similar videos when I first got into the hobby not too long ago.
I would appreciate a video on impedance and decibel sensitivity and all that techie stuff that I have no idea how to read all I know impedance low good maybe I'm wrong about that too
That video is awesome. Thank you! I am really thinking about buying some bluetooth headphones like the B&W PX8. But I just don't know.
You should do a tier list for those kind of headphones.
FWIW I have not heard a B&W Bluetooth headphone that I liked. Maybe check out Resolve's recent video: ua-cam.com/video/zRh1Rczlz6k/v-deo.html
@@SuperReview Thanks for your answer. I will. I am trying my ie 600 with the 3.5mm unbalanced cable right now. Don`t know, if there is any difference. I am listening via the Apple dongle and an iPhone. Still not sure, If I need my Aune M1p anymore....
Teach me to eq so I can become s tier in my own life
That'll be a big one. But coming.
@@SuperReview ok cool. Please focus on finances, family, community, health and burritos as things to adjust
I'd argue to put DACs to C atleast. I went from a cheap no name 16bit 24hz dongle to a Fiio BTR3k and the difference was massive to me. It makes a difference depending on what are you comparing.
Mastering of the source and the speakers should be all that is impacting the sound. Everything else better be transparent.
I agree. Some people want their source gear to add flavor, which I don't really get.
Burn in is definitely a B. If you ever owned a brand new Sennheiser HD559. The soundstage and imaging is inside your head when you playback binaural sound. After 100 hours of playback every thing opens up.
AMPs is the same it depends what type of headphones you are trying to drive. Very expensive headphones tend to have a bigger response to different Amps.
I kind of see your point and agree wit the general ideas you had but I really don't agree with the terminology necessarily. for example the difference going from bluetooth to wired I would say has been great for me majorly. I'd agree it's not the bluetooth and encoding limitations itself but even with the same sound signature (using eq) between high quality tws and iems is a lot. I'm not sure exactly what the reason is but I'd say it's a combination of power, chamber and chip components limitations in tws compared to iems. I experienced a great improvement going from a high end tws like galaxy buds 2 pro to a 20 bucks iem which was unexpected and I'm not the only one who's had this experience.
Yeah I tried to narrow the Bluetooth point to the technology of Bluetooth signal transmission specifically, mostly because I see people getting excited about new lossless Bluetooth codecs and I think it won't make a difference.
THX!
I'd have a 320 to flac on a depends on the song basis. Most songs have no difference, but some live albums have notable differences, that's the recordings that matter the most to me in flac. It oscillates from D to B for me.
Oh this a fun one
You rate 320 over FLAC (makes sense, especially trading storage space) but call BT codec irrellevant? LDAC is much more significant than AAC and crap codecs over a quality BT reciever than LDAC is to wired.
A DAC makes much more of a difference at each respective playing tier up to 4 figures. The 5 figure dacs limited to 192/24 are pure snake oil for luxury buyers.
Pads and eartips for UIEM's are certainly leagues more important than cables (copper is not warm/silver is not cold and detailed 😂)
Awesome episode and informative, though definitely subjective with some objective analysis. :)
Thanks.
Who am I? ... My drivers:
1. IEM = Ikko OH10
2. Wired: Sennheiser HD600 & HD58X
3. Wired Gaming: Sennheiser Game One
4: Wireless: Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 4 & Sennheiser Momentum TW 4
5. Wirleless Gaming: Razer Blackshark V2 Pro 2023 Edition (they are not bad! for the price of USD120 I got)
6. My jewel: Sennheiser HE 60
DAC, AV, wires, streamers, etc .... secondary. Thinking of getting Sennheiser HD490 Pro.
P.S. You don't need to overpay to enjoy the sounds of this world!
Ngl but you do hear some differences between 320 and lossless... Like a few extra notes or slight whispers, extra background details... But then i also do feel like the clarity is better like switching form 720p to 1080p on a 1080p monitor, maybe im biased
You need to stop "feeling" and instead perform a PROPER abx test. The results will blow you way.
PS And don't compare audio with video resolution, these comparisons are invalid. The video resolution could be bumped up to infinity as we can always come closer to the screen and see individual pixels or use bigger panels and "justify" 8k, 12k and so on.
With audio there's a limit to what you can phisically hear - frequency and amplitude wise. You can't zoom in.
Mind sharing what software was used for the tier list?
Figma Figjam
@@SuperReview Thank you so much.
What about quantum audiophile stickers?
In the interest of full honesty and transparency, I've never tried.
...But I have a pretty good guess :P
@SuperReview 😁
@@ankramuttaudio quantum? Straight to S tier!
The thing is that you put some myths like burn in in one line with things that make actual difference like different audio formats but it's hard to hear by ear, however the difference is there and measurable.
And there are things that should not make a difference like cables, dacs and amps and if they do they are bad and should not be used (unless you like the distortion they introduce which is the case with tube ams i. e.).
And of course audio production is paramount, if it's a bad record no amount of gear will remedy that. You could technically make your own re master though but that usually goes beyond the scope of average audiophile.
There are basically three tiers of difference:
1. Differences you can hear, and you can measure.
2. Differences you can't hear, but you can measure.
3. Differences you can hear, but you can't measure.
Burn-in fits into Category 3. Hi-Res audio fits into Category 2. Music production / mastering into Category 1.
@SuperReview If you can't measure something it means that either science isn't there yet, or it does not exist. I think that science is pretty advanced nowadays.
Instead of burning an IEM, find a good music maker and try to support him because he will make the biggest difference
For me, the biggest difference is the music producer, the extent of his experience, and the quality of his work. I have noticed that you can even listen to two works, both with the same accuracy and download times. The difference between them will be like night and day even though it is an IEM. It is such a difference that it can make the elements sound bad or good.An example of the thing I noticed most is the bass. Some of them make it amazing, and some make it seem like a distortion in the sound and not even bass
Can you make a video compare the sound signature of each streaming platforms, I mean yeah it should be the same (within the same quality) but I'm wondering is there a "true" different ?
@dinhbao3102
Each streaming service has their own unique mastering guidelines and requirements before the files are approved for uploading to their servers.
Some are more similar than different, but there can still be various differences in regards to the Average & Peak Levels (measured in LUFS), How OR If they apply either Track and/or Album Normalization, and If they apply Limiting.
So, based on those variables alone, the same album or tracks have the potential to sound different when being played on each different streaming service.
Refer to iZOTOPE's article titled, "How to master for streaming platforms: normalization, LUFS, and loudness".
re cables: i would just recommend a quick A/B on any new cable you get, and not expect anything; but I have 1 cable that measure well for resistance/continuity (usually all i check for, and no A/B'ing in the past) but this 1 cable absolutely ruins bass quality and blunts treble in an odd way, never heard anything like it.
all my other cables that are quite cheap that i like to use (comfort/aesthetics) are just fine as i had assumed before when i was only checking that they manufactured properly and leaving it at that.
saw a video about capacitance being a potential problem, i hope to measure capacitance on my cables if i ever get around to getting a capable multimeter and see what my bad cable shows compared to a few cables I use that have no detectable issues.
I would rather not use eq but I believe everyone should use it to find their preferences. I would use eq if there were better smartphone apps for it especially for iOS.