Back home in Hawaii, my grandma taught me to shred the coconut husks up then use the skin of the coconut as the planter. We would use a bit of compost mixed with the husks and use those to plant seeds in the skin because they hold water well. The skin will already have cracks in them so the water drains well. And when the seedlings are ready to transplant, the skin of the coconut has broken down enough to bury the skin with the husk and compost as a whole in the garden. It's a one time use but at least the coconut will be one with nature again. :) OH and it works very well.
That's a great idea! As I was listening to all this I was thinking, how did people start seedlings in the years before either peat or coir were available?
@@laurabehenna7950 I was raised on a 1940's farm and never started from seedlings in the garden. I assume seedlings started with affordable lights and heaters.
@@evilroyslade2491 I start my seedlings in an unheated greenhouse. They come up when the conditions are right for them. That's how nature does it, so that's how I do it now.
I think it was good for you to use your local coconuts for a very good use, in your area........here where I live in GA. the coconut is very expensive to plant in.........I just bought 3 cubic feet of peat moss for 11.00 last weekend in Home Depot..........I was thinking about ordering some of the coconut coir soon but it is 25.00 for a little block and I have to put off planting and I feel it is not worth it.........I searched and searched for the right answer, and here I found it from Gardner Scott.......
Hello Scott, I'm a coir and coir pith products manufacturer based in Sri Lanka. many of the arguments you make are true. However I have to comment on few points you make about Sri Lanka, 1. Working conditions - coir pith is extracted from the coconut husk when its wet. so dust is not an issue at this point. dust can be an issue while its been dried and processed. Workers wear necessary protection like dust masks and working gloves. Most of the production facilities use dust extractors as well. Sri Lanka has strict employee protection laws and worker welfare is a statutory requirement. All companies must contribute to an employee provident fund (pension fund). We take care of our people. 2. Sri Lanka is a tropical country. temperature between 25C - 35C (77F - 95F) is not how for us ! 3. Calcium Nitrate is the only chemical that is used for buffering. However companies must obtain a licence from the Coconut Development Authority and Central Environment Authority to use it. and to get the license a company MUST have treatment plants. therefore untreated harmful chemicals are not released to the environment as you say. (This is for Sri Lanka) 4. Smaller companies just wash the coir pith to reduce salinity. the used water is released to coconut plantations, coconuts thrive in salty conditions so that is also not harmful to the environment. 5. As for the use of water, Sri Lanka is blessed with plenty of water, there are 103 rivers in this tiny island the size if Florida state. in fact, there was so much rain during the past few months, flooding is an issue now. Sri Lanka is a beautiful and very diverse country with friendly and welcoming people. Its not an under developed, malnourished wasteland. Sri Lanka's education system is one of the best in the world with a literacy rate of nearly 100%. among the highest in the developing world. We have a rich culture and heritage with a written history of more than 2500 years. Literally. I can only speak for Sri Lanka !
Thank you kind sir! We use coir in hydroponics, and then spread the nutrient rich used coir to mulch our outdoor plants, as Australia gets to over 40C in summer. It also helps water to reach through the hydrophobic sandy soil here. Coir (pronounced : coy-er ) is far more pleasant to work with. And I agree about the wonderful people of Sri Lanka! (Tom's wife)
Thanks for your helpful information. It sounds like a dream world, interested to visit Sri lanka when travelling is permitted after the pandemic. Will continue to use coir for my home garden. Thanks.
Afternoon . I don't understand what is meant by..."used for buffering." So is the Calcium Nitrate absorbed in the coir as an added nutrient for the benefit of the end user?
One of the absolute best presentations I’ve ever heard. As a past instructor, I hear a perfect presentation of fact and opportunity to learn all factors related to this subject! Thanks much. I will be a better gardener for it.
not sure about the part where he is scaring us with "chemicals" used in processing coir. what he is talking is just sea water - yes, it is salty, but if you soak coir in freshwater at home the salt will be washed off, no biggy. no need to scare your audience with scary "chemicals"
I have watched dozens of your videos and I love them. This one was one of the most thoughtful and I really appreciate the honest information. Thanks Gardener Scott!
I've used both, and personally I prefer coir, mainly for the way it wicks water and maintains aerated structure. Peat will often channel if not wetted properly. But the issues you raise here are important . Thank you. As an interesting (and maybe unpleasant) side note, peat can harbor many fungal organisms, including one called sporotrichosis. I was infected by sporotrichosis through a cut on my hand while handling peat. It entered my lymphatic system and produced lesions up my arm to the shoulder. By the time it was diagnosed, I need two years (no exaggerating) of antifungal treatment orally to completely eradicate it. It's not a common problem but does occur, especially in peat from certain parts of the world. I guess the takeaway is always wear gloves!
Thank you, Gardener Scott! I largely compost everything I can, but this is a very well-reasoned video for those times when you need something off the shelf
This was a fascinating revelation! You mentioned briefly once that compost might be better than either, and when you make your own, it’s pretty sustainable. I think I’ll strive to minimize my use of either, and amend my garden with leaf mould, homemade compost, and other homemade amendments. Love all your posts, Gardener Scott!! Thank you!!
Oh dear lord. I worked as a heavy equipment mechanic at a peat harvesting operation for years. Yes, they strip off the top couple of feet, not because it's a living layer, but because everything below that is too wet. There are MILLIONS of square kilometers of peat bog in Canada alone, and the peat harvesting industry hasn't touched even a fraction of one percent of it. I have ZERO doubt that the coconut industry are the one's responsible for slagging the peat industry in the first place. They never mention that they clear huge amounts of forest in order to put in coconut plantations. They also ignore the extra energy it takes to refine coco coir and the extra fuel it takes to ship it to you. It does NOT take millions of years for a peat bog to regenerate. The place I worked at has been in the area for about 60 years, and you can't even tell that anything was done in the areas they harvested back when they started up. It's unbelievable how much nonsense there is floating around about the peat moss industry. When in doubt, follow the money, and I'd bet my lunch the nonsense was started by the coconut industry in order to get the guilt ridden to buy their product. Use whatever you want. I'd recommend going with what's cheaper, and forget about the environmental guilt trip.
I find this such an interesting issue! I use peat based starter mixes and potting soils. One thing that I think is important to mention is that after a peat bog in Canada 🇨🇦 has been harvested for 20 or 30 years they reseed it with living material from another bog and within another couple of years it becomes a healthy, self sustaining peat bog again! They are very careful about how many years a bog can be harvested because the bogs are incredibly important for water management in the local environment. The fact that more is growing than is being used was a great point! Klaus
bkrbkrl It takes a couple of years for the living layer to reestablish itself and for water management to no longer be necessary, I didn’t say any about compression.
Wow! I didn’t know all this🤦🏽♀️ I sure learned something, I switched from peat to Coir now I gotta seriously rethink this issue! Please allow me to say you’re a great teacher! I too completed the Master Gardeners class, and I’ve learned more RESEARCH (state to state,zone 6 zone) YOU were correct you NEVER STOP LEARNING. So I THANK YOU! For encouraging me to think, rethink some of my methods and choices. This winter I will do much more RESEARCH. Thank you so much. Stay well
Environmental impact of any product matters a lot to me and it's a movement that's growing. Gardener Scott taught me some stuff here especially about Canada's well-managed sustainability of peat. Thank you for the information in this episode and for citing your sources, well done sir.
Thanks Scott, very nice explanation. Composted leaves, woodchips, biochar and animal manure mixed with clay, sand and soil does the job very well. So nothing has to be imported and you can recycle all the stuff from your garden, neighborhood or commune
I learned something new today, about coir having more potassium, and sequestering calcium. Good to know, for those of us growing tomatoes, etc. Appreciate all the info, both in the original video, and here below, in the comments.
Coco is amazing for rooting though because of it's natural K content and structure (very fine fibres). Good quality coco (properly washed and buffered) has almost zero Calcium uptake problems. You can easily improve it by adding Gypsum or Dolomite for Ca/Mg heavy plants.
I sincerely appreciated the objectivity as well. Issues regarding sustainability, ethics, global impacts are very nuanced and complex. Information is often perverted by people with an agenda. I also appreciate that you brought geography into the equation. I live in Canada, so peat is a very logical choice - unlike coconuts which don’t successfully grow in our climate. Thank you for respecting your viewers personal values with your balanced and unbiased review.
Thank you for your response. As someone who is interested in making very conscientious consumer choices I an happy to know that Sri Lanka is a country that protects its environment and it’s employees. This is what we all need to support when choosing to purchase items. Sustainability. I will happily purchase items produced in your country. 🙏
Gardener Scott, Thank you for the very balanced presentation of arguments for and against both. I come from Sri Lanka, as a child, I used to see mountains of coir dust (we call this short fibres coir dust to distinguish it from the long fibres that are used in ropes, mats, brushes and many other products. ) Long before it became a fashionable peat substitute the stuff used to be processed for the long fibres so whether we use it as a peat substitute or not it will continue to be processed and the arguments about the chemicals water and labour conditions will not change. It truly is a byproduct that does not cause any more environmental damage as it will continue to be produced. So your arguments against it based on the use of water chemicals and slave labour really do not stand scrutiny. I agree with you the compression packaging and transport across the globe does add to its carbon footprint. As for peat, we in the UK get ours from the republic of Ireland and I am not aware of the details to be certain if the harvesting process is sustainable or not. I am an enthusiastic gardener and I do use both coir and peat in my gardening. As you said in your youtube presentation I use peat if the plants I am propagating or growing like the acid soil conditions, Rhododendrons, Camellias, Blueberry as you mentioned, do better in peat, however for most plants that do not need ericaceous growing substrate I use coir. In fact, orchids particularly do better in the coir so long as the nutrients are supplied separately. As you said availability and the price also matter, I just cannot get the coconut coir dust in the quantities similar to the bags of Irish moss peat (usually 100L bags) that are available in the UK. I agree with your conclusion that the case is not black and white as most enthusiasts of either product would argue. Thanks for the discussion that I enjoyed.
Decided to start gardening & worm farming...which has lead to massive time gathering information. Thank you for taking time to give in-depth Information! Much appreciated from TN
I think it all boils down to which part of the world you are gardening. I grew up in the Philippines. After we have removed the coconut meat (for copra), the coconut husks are piled up to dry. When it’s dried, the shells are removed to use as fuel for the dryer (for copra) and some as charcoal (the best!), some are cleaned and converted to laddles, spoons, cups, bowls, buttons, everything that your creative mind can create. The outer fiber of the husk are gathered to make some of the strongest ropes we use in the farm, some (we use a lot), we use as planters. Yes, those fine particles are sometimes gathered (as peat) for the garden, but we pay more attention to the fibers. We harvest coconut every 3 months for copra (and the husks do pile up), so we have a pit for the “extra husks” and all the farm refuse to go. Believe me, the soil coming out from there is the best garden mix we ever have! We hardly have peat bogs in our land, so gathering peat for our garden is out of the question. As for the argument of processing, sustainability and environmental friendliness, in my part of the world, coconut coir is hands down the best choice. Since living in NYC for the last 40 years, I have become acquainted to the use of peat for my choice potted plants.
Glad for the info on the differences. Here in Trinidad coconut coir is relatively cheaper because coconuts are grown here and is readily available so I use coir. 😊
Wonderful discussion! Thank you so much. You mentioned compost being ideal option and would love to hear more about it. I’ve been worm composting for 15 years and love the results I get in my small garden. I have clay soil which I keep infusing with composting towers so that I can improve soil quality and for aeration. I’ve never used peat or core and have not missed them.
I love the way Scott speaks. So clear! I love that he states the facts and doesn't tell you to do one or the other. I would like sources in the description but I know from searching the web that he didn't say anything false.
I live in Canada and have always used peat moss(even when I moved to North Carolina I bought peat moss, I have since moved back to Canada) but after listening to many gardeners promoting coco coir I was going to start using it; not after listening to your information. Thanks for sharing, I will stick to local product.
What ever is available on Clearance at the end of the season is my choice. I bought a pallet of potting mix at my local Walmart last year for $1 a bag! My garden was very appreciative.
if price is the only criteria the destructive choices will usally be the cheapest. if you destroy something for short term gains the product can be often very cheap. Like plundering eco systems in a few decades that needed thousands of years to develop. Like is the case with peat moss. It is of course cheap, because the damage in the countries where it is harvested is usually not factored in (those bogs are also often important for the hydrology, and if enough of the peat moss is removed that sponge is sorely missed).
The reason plundering of the bogs is prohibited in rich countries (think Germany for instance, Austria, likely also France, .....) is that the destruction of ecosystems IN the country is not tolerated. The "solution" is then either to import it from other countries where local oligarchs have more influence on politics or the population is so busy with surviving that they can't spare a thought on the long term effects of plundering the bogs. usually those countries are extra corrupt and that shows in the extraction of all natural resources incl. peat. Countries that have a lot of peat may be more generous with allowing extraction (Canada and Sweden, although the Swedes normally look better after their environment).
When you consider the occasional break throughs in bio mimicry - we cannot afford to lose eco systems, we do not know what we lose when we destroy those niches for short term (minimal) gains. _Are you really THAT poor that you could not buy a soil amendment that would be SUSTAINABLE or find a workaround to using peat ?_ The niches that are destroyed within a few decades have a very unique and specialized plant and animal life - we cannot afford to lose that just because there is no flashing price tag on it for the costs of destruction. We could just not care what is going on in Canada, or the Baltic states and the negative effects on their hydrology (that will hit them sooner or later - not the gardeners in search of the cheapest price and not the people that made money from extraction - the price will be to pay by the locals that used to benfit from the eco system as long as it was intact. It is worse than the regional damage - mankind might miss out on that one plant, or that one fungi, or bacteria that only grows there. (bacteria that have special properties, molecules that are medicine, or inspire the development of new materials or medical drugs, or paints or coatings, fibre etc.).
This year I used a product called Sea Soil. It is made from composted fish, and ground bark. Here in British Columbia - - Canada. Both are in good supply. From the forest industry, and the fishing industry. Composted for two years. Used it to fill my planters, and amend my soil. Everything is growing fantastic!!! And it's made right here on Vancouver Island!!
Composted fish = plundering the oceans. The Great White Sharks might be already in trouble. Some Orcas recently "hunted" a yacht off Gibraltar. (probably checking out if that is another whale or large shark).
Fish is used as soil amendment, let that sink in ! I can easily belive that the fishers take that out of the ocean, the question is if that t is good. - Those fish would be the source of food for other fish. O.K. maybe they use the waste when they process fish (but even then it would be better to return the nutrients to the ocean.
@@xyzsame4081 the fish compost is made with the waste products from fish processing, and is composted with waste products from the forest industry. Taking two materials which we have a lot of here in B.C. which would end up in the land fill, and turning them into a valuable commodity, creating jobs as a side benefit in a region that is short of jobs.
@@xyzsame4081 >>We eat fish, God gave us fish.......I live close to a fish market and restaurant......and to me, if I was smart I would ask for their "waste" to grow food in my garden.....God gave us the fish to use.....Jesus ate fish and gathered up the scraps ........In no way are we to stop eating fish so that they could remain in the ocean to feed other fish............wow, ......Animals were made for man........ not man for the animals...wow
I will continue to take my maple tree leaves into my garden as fall mulch. After winter I till it in. My father would ask the neighbors if he could take their downed maple leaves Would heap on an large old tarp and drag it home. They were happy to get rid of the leaves and Dad’s garden produced enough to share. Make your own mulch/fall protection cover. Dad thought maple leafs broke down well in NW winter climate. Worked for us.
perfect!! another reason leaves, maple over most others is king in organic gardening. It increases humus, and the best of all reason it outperforms either peat or the super high salt levels of coir, is the sugar content!!! if you test your veggies you will find they have a much higher brix rating using the leaves! although testing isnt necessary as they are juicier and much more flavorful!! tomatoes 4 life!! god bless and keep using them leaves....
I'm on Maui, any chance you found someone who cleans it up and sells it here local? My main use for Coir is to hold a bit of moisture for starters in aeroponic verticle towers so the minerals are covered, and the soil is not a factor. I have been trying to find a supplier but the only thing close was a non-responsive FB group and DaKine (online) which was actually in Washington. If you happen to know anyone, feel free to message me on IG @a.rae.under.the.stars
@@krane15 If all you’re doing is removing salt and sand from the husks, then “chemicals” aren’t necessary, but it’s still a huge waste of Fresh water to soak them and dilute the salt. Also, if the tree grows in the interior of the island/isn’t allowed to make contact with the beaches and ocean water, I think they’d be fine to use without much processing. A lot of the commercially harvested coir comes from huge piles of husks that were previously left to rot for months along the shores of the plantations they were grown in, giving them way too much time to absorb sea water during monsoon/hurricane season. If they were my own trees, I’d even experiment with composting them. It would help to breakup and soften the more course fibers and would be less back-breaking labor than trying to soak, dry and chop/grind the raw fibers for their usual applications. And the water added during composting could serve to dilute or extract trace amounts of salt.
@@Chemeleon15 The claim that the peat production in CANADA is sustainable and that they harvest much less than grows back is made by the 20 companies that dominate the industry, and are of course organized to protect their interests. They are big fish (local politics) and also provide jobs in rural areas, and the damage is not as visible as let's say an oil spill. So we can safely assume that they get away with a lot if they want to, and if the area after "restauration" will not look like a mess, the locals will be content (never mind what a biologist would say because of course they can impossibly restore a system that developed over thousands of years.
I'm a Colorado girl living zone 6. I loved your discussion on the pros and cons of peat vs. Coconut. The carbon release to environment doesn't really "hold water" pun intended. Unless we are burning the peat and Canadian processing plants use respirators for workers. There isn't really a significant amount of carbon released to the air. The peat is still peat, just dried then rehydrated at a later date. And North America benefits.
Penny, I suspect the carbon release from peat moss he spoke of is from when it decomposes. If left in the bog, the carbon is held under the living moss, in the ground. If put in your garden, it's decomposing and releasing a lot of that carbon into the atmosphere because it's not sealed off under a thick layer of living moss.
Thank you for this very educational and informative helpful video. I'm just learning (at 73 years old) about Coconut Coir and peat not only in use for my potted plants and my first garden in 20 years but also my vermicomposting with worms. I thought the video speed was just fine because video speed is never a one size fits all. I find if I'm not interested in what's being said, I just fast-forward. Thank you and I'm on to the next!
I used coco coir (mixed with potting soil) in potted outside topiary plants, lilac plants specifically. After 4 years they are thriving and doing very well.
Technically there’s a third side to a coin if you think about it he raised some good points but there may be some more information out there that is not being shown to see the full picture none of us know everything there are uses for both I’m sure and as he saidBoth are potentially sustainable and have the downsides
I'm glad you raised the issue of processing of coir, I wasn't aware of the chemical and water use. Personally I'd rather not use either, I'd prefer to use local materials to create a cycle in my own backyard, such as mulching fallen branches and composting. There are other options besides going to a store. I feel like in most cases if you're taking fertility and materials from an ecosystem it is inevitably going to do it harm.
Really great source of information on the two products, especially cause sustainability was my biggest issue. What gets me the most is the fact that Coir takes so much /fresh/ water to make it usable, and water is already such a limited resource, and that the processing and shipping of it, and the deforestation to make more coconut farms, also contributes to the carbon issues. Thank you for making such a thorough video on the pros and cons of both; I didn't know that peat was actually growing faster than we can use it.
fresh water is NOT a scarce resource in the tropics. On a global scale peat moss extraction destroys eco systems. Coconuts _can_ be grown in a sustainable manner. (and put to good use, everything of the plant). As part of a plantation (not a monoculture) they can also fix the soil, and provide income for local farmers. Never mind that they are also pioneer plants that will grow in sand and tolerate salt.
I have found a mixture of 1/3 peat, 1/3 coir, and 1/3 perlite to be my favorite all around mix. You get the benefits from both the peat and the coco and end up with the right ph.
If you're not potting plant material and are instead planting in the ground, then you need to use some original ground from the site where you're planting your plant material, whatever that is.
PERLITE is a type of volcanic silicate glass. It's mostly air so it's used for drainage. Be aware it can affect the body much as asbestos, causing a permanent incurable lung disease called silicosis. If used without a dust mask, you are likely to gasp for a looking time before secondary pneumonia kills you. For drainage, I use the MUCH LARGER, heavier chunks of volcanic lava foam aka pumice. You can get a bag of 1/2 cu. ft. for a few bucks at any big hardware store or garden center. I live in an urban forest (primarily maples) and already raked up about 600 gal. of dry leaves which we are grinding. I'm planning to compost some of that in a cold frame to bring in for seed starting in early April. (4/28 is l s.f. here.) We have at least 2 kinds of earthworms in my 15 raised beds each of which get 2-6" of ground leaves every fall. But my hubby won't let me raise them indoors. I use peat for my blue berry beds and sometimes to make potting mix. I'm wondering if I should use half-finished leaf mold plus commercial, heat treated worm castings as a seed starter mix? Worm castings are somewhat alkaline.
OMG that's more complicated than I thought. My soil is rather heavy with clay and lime, but I think I'll keep making and using my own compost as a soil additive and fertilizer. Thanks for pointing out some new facts to me.
pelletized gypsum assists in breaking up clay...(do not put sand in clay... clay and sand = pottery ) horse manure compost is best animal compost...free to the taking at some stables ...
Compost seems to be really good to improve clay soil (and lots of mulch on top, so that the soil life can work it and soften it, you can use compost as mulch as well). Then of course daikon radish to aerate it * and chicory seems to be even better as cover / soil improvement crop resp. "green manure". you can let the radish in the soil over winter and let it rot, the earth worms will be happy. Rye is also said to be a good and robust cover crop. Never leave the soil naked and consider no-till practices - or you will constantly kill and disturb the soil life that would do the magic with you clay soil. Chicory is a perennial (2 years I think) and is rooting very deep (it breaks through bedrock according to a speaker of Cotswold Seeds, an U.K. company, that seell seeds for green manure and cover crops and holds seminars and webinars for farmers). They also say that cover crops with a LOT of different plants perform better than one plant or only a mix of two, or 4 or 6, They tested a mix of 12 and it by far outperformed all other mixes and also the single performance of the best among the varieties. That is important, because for farmers the seed costs and easy germination matter as well, and the cover crop that had the best performance as "monoculture" is not among the varities with cheap seeds (for instance clovers) But luckily they can be mixed with much cheaper seeds and the results will be even better. Plus some tolerance - if the conditions are not good for one plant, there are still 11 others to step up. Nature likes variety. Chicory is also a fancy vegetable that is protected in year 2 from the sun, so it will stay white and what not - well if you grow it as green manure and because the deep and extensive roots will do wonders for your clay soil, you you can spare yourself the trouble. Not sure if it is good to eat if it is not groomed to be white, I think it is less bitter then (but bitter would be healthy. I seem to remember that chicory is related to endive salad). U.S. farmers have Daikon radishes sown by planes ! to counteract the compaction of the earth with the large machines, and they do not grow them for food. the varities may not be quite as tasty as the ones grown as vegetable. The purpose is soil improvement and they are composted on site l (eaten by the earth worms). But normal varieties will do - it is a question of seed cost and optimitzed specialized performance for the farmers with large fields and machine use, but a middle of the road seed will do well for a hobby gardener. I would use gypsum only sparingly - if at all. If the soil has been already somewhat developed it does not need the gyspsum (if you plant a tree for instance you could add a little bit into a larger than usual plant hole). and it can cost you some fertility and the effect is not lasting. Compost also improves the structure of clay soil and that IS lasting.
I know this is a really old video but I love the way you put things. The only thing that's missing is the nutritional value of each but amazing video and yes I did learn a whole new side of the debate. I've always been a 50/50 ish man myself in this video only helps confirm that I will remain a 50/50 ish kind of man.
Thank you Gardner’s Scott. You gave us a lot to think about and as is the case in most situations, the answers are not just black-and-white. It’s so easy to vilify one side of an argument, without thoroughly investigating the minutia of the details on both sides. I live right next to an organic farm and we have a lot of organic compost that makes its way into my garden. I do also use peat in my garden. I think I feel that if Canada is doing as good, a job of harvesting, Peat, sustainably, as you mention… I’m OK with using it.
I stopped using both several years ago because of the very issues you mention. Coconut coir is the worst for growing plant. Stunted for sure but that stuff takes years to break down in the soil. I'm still finding pockets of it in the garden. Now I stick to making my own compost and using old hay as a mulch. I have had no problems since. I really like your teaching method.
It is retaining carbon in your soil and amending the crumb structure.... Doesn't matter if the fibres are visible years later.... The Coco is not toxic and gradually releases K.
Right. It’s not intended as a sole media. It is intended as an additive. As with peat moss. If the plants were stunted, most likely amendments were not done, and cal mag supplement was not given. Coco coir needs calcium and magnesium regularly unlike soil
@@getlost3094 Coco is what the Dutch use in Greenhouse Tomato cultivation (and most fast growing annual species including floriculture).... Tomatoes are notoriously hungry for Ca & Mg.... Coco works perfectly. Only grower errors stunt plants.
í use coir, as y make it my self... I live at the carribean and peat is not a good option... I believe that local is always the best choice, and since your local is not coconut makes sense to get the Canadian peat
Am at my in laws. Collecting some of their unused coconut coirs and planning to shred them somehow. I see the argument for peat as well. In all go local :)
Yeah, I think he's thinking less like an environmentalist and more like if he was pushing more farming that doesnt go well with environment/geography and how the earth is changing right now. I trust coir, I only new about it first as a safe substate for my baby gecko's tank. It has live plants the substrate is bioactive. I also know coconut to be good in fungus regulation. And there's a lot of pollution out there that will change the mycological landscape of Earth. A good way we can tell if the Earth is sick from pollution and getting a fever is by seeing how our soils/Earth's substrate is doing, bioactively speaking.
Some seed needs different things to start germinating, so there’s a use for both, for example succulents might prefer the coco coir, as it dries out way faster than peat or even compost.
This was very enlightening. I really like Gardener Scott and I feel like he's a great "college professor" and I honestly think the lumber business around the world is worse than peat harvest. Another thing that Gardener Scott didn't mention however is how much forest still remains in Canada. In Canada, there's over 347 million hectares of forest (1335913.46856 sq. miles). That's about 40% of Canada. And they've deforested less than 1% of it since 1990. That's a LOT of trees! So naturally, I also agree with Gardener Scott.
Peat base mixes with coir as an amendment is a great product for a commercial greenhouse. Coir doesn't collapse on itself so you'll get less "shrinkage" in the pot so the mix doesn't pull away from the walls allowing water & fertilizer to bypass the mix and end up on the floor.
Thank you for your perspectives on this issue. I have heard arguments pro and con on both products, but my own experience has been that my plants generally do much better in peat-based mixes, and often not well at all in coir-based mixes, particularly if I use coir directly from the brick. I have long suspected it was from a lack of nutrients and possibly some growth-inhibitory factor, and your information seems to confirm my suspicion, at least as far as nutrition. I am relieved to find that the sustainability issue is not as straightforward as I have been led to believe, and feel less guilty about using peat, which seems to work better for me.
Excellent video and enlightening. Ive been trying to use both but only buy coir when its at clearance prices because like you said its quiet expenseve and lets face today most people grow their own veggies to get better food at a lower price.
I really enjoyed this one. When I took up gardening last year I noticed that gardening people were avoiding any discussion or promotion of peat moss. I was purchasing compost with manure and was told it was fine for growing this way, was never told to mix it with peat. I learned eventually that I needed to add 1/3 to 1/5 peat to the dairy doo compost. The mix as is was too rich for many vegetables and not aerated enough. All of the youtube gardeners I was watching completely avoided the peat moss topic as well. I just pondered and wondered what the big deal was, and assumed there was a sustainability issue with peat. Now I realize that global warming was part of the discussion. Thank you for speaking so clearly on this divisive topic as well as all the other topics you speak about. I question the veracity of global warming arguments in general, but it's nice to be informed about both peat and coir!
@@carolburnett8372 I make my own compost. I save kitchen scraps, coffee filters and paper towels. I put them in plastic trash cans with holes drilled. I add plant waste, leaves, shredded brown bags and ripped cardboard. In 6-9 months I have beautiful black gold. No need to purchase potting soil or compost. I do add peat moss as it’s too dense for some veggies & needs some aeration.
@@Waterlily480 Thanks, I like the idea of the huge black bag with holes......this way I can quit throwing this mess all over my garden to trash it up as I view it out my kitchen window........also I might put it close to the back door so I won't put off the trips to the garden....and the idea of dry peat moss put in between dumpings makes it not seem as gross, thank you
@@carolburnett8372 I hadn’t thought of adding the peat to the garbage. Usually I add it to the finished compost when I am potting my plants. It needs to be well watered and mixed to absorb the water or it may not be effective.
@@Waterlily480 -- I am listening on uTube to Gardner Scott, and he talks about a mulch bag and getting an anaerobic or aerobic, I am not sure how to get each one. I purchased a huge trashcan that opens up with a foot petal and recluses automatically. I bought thick industrial bags to line it with........I guess this way it will not really get oxygen.....wonder if this will work?? Ideas ??
This was a very useful video. I had thought that coconut coir was the less harmful option, but if all of this information is true, I now believe that I want to minimize or eliminate both peat moss and coco coir from my use entirely and try to just get by without them.
Well, there's also local ecosystems. Adding mass amounts of foreign materials to our local (as in North American) soils, changes the overall health of our ecosystems. Keeping it as local as possible is usually the most eco sustainable for native plants and wildlife. Any northern areas are better using peat. CO2 is plant food, so that should enhance growth.. Another part is the natural good fungi, minerals and bacteria that is in peat, and not in coir. Plants need these, and they help our local northern eco systems flourish.
I"ve started using compost (mainly my own) and either vermiculite or perlite and so far so good. But I'm going to check out where vermiculite and perlite come from and how their production might be effecting the environment - physical and social. Thanks for this consideration, which extends to more than peat and coir.
THANK YOU!! Finally someone that has researched thoroughly, dared to speak the truth and shed light on the many myths and rumors that many just blindly follow!!
As per usual both informative and thorough. I am using coco mats for my micro greens but now may look into dye free egg carton DIY paper making…. Old blenders are good for that!
the cons of coir are kind of BS in my point of view. there is organic coir available, I get some locally and it is made in the USA with no slave labor and no chemicals
Great, thoughtful video, based on facts! Thank you. I am a retired Canadian, living in Malaysia, love gardening, and have access to and use both, peat and coir. I understand your points about the environmental concerns of shipping and trucking coir half around the world (not to mention the working conditions in many developing countries). The irony here is that our peat is shipped from Holland (half around the world, as it were), and coir is available from a responsible supplier a quarter mile down our road - just the opposite from your home base. Nevertheless, I subscribed to your channel, because of the broad range of practical gardening topics. Thanks! God bless! Keep up the good work.
Thank you, Peter. You are in an interesting region, truly the opposite of what I highlighted. Take advantage of the irony and make the best of your coir. :)
Your content has been very illuminating and I for one, find you very clear, concise and relaxing to listen to unlike other vloggers who can’t speak fast enough and end up getting their tongue in a pretzel!! As to peat versus core? I bought core for the first time this year based on all the hype, but have not yet used it. I’ve always used peat but in smaller than called for amounts as I find an equal mix of peat and compost to be far more successful than the mostly peat soils on the market. I make my own compost and supplement it with manure from local farmers and to a lesser degree peat for the outdoor garden. For potted and house plants, I buy a quality bagged soil with a 50/50 ratio of peat to compost. I then add my own perlite, vermiculite and other useful amendments. Thanks to your eye opening information, I will continue to use peat to a lesser degree and feed the coconut core to my hungry bin of worms!!!
Another thing that you forgot to mention about coconut coir is that it needs to be washed before being used. Many of the countries that produce coir use salt water in their processing because fresh water is not abundant in their regions but ocean water is. That means that we have to use our fresh water to wash the coir before mixing it into a potting mix or risk having too many salts in the potting mix for our plants.
I have alkaline soill that prevents my plants from absorbing iron. Peat moss has helped my soil become a little more acidic and micro nutrients arent as locked up in the soil. Iron deficiency had me accept yellow leaves regardless of adding Iron via soil or foliar. Today my entire yard is greener without adding Iron and my soil analysis have never been better. If your soil is higher ph peate can help lower it in a few months compared to years with sulfur.
Have always used peat and never really thought of coco coire till I started watching your videos. I wondered if I was using the right product. So glad you did this video. As usual, life is complicated and in the gray area, never a clear right and wrong issue. However, I can’t possibly pick up coco coire now without thinking of people suffering from the chemicals. There is no way. So, I’m sticking with peat till something better comes around.
Thank you for talking about what I knew for years. Peat has micro nutrients and coco has none. Been using peat forever and will continue to.. Thanks again!
Hi Scott. You present a good argument for using either peat or coir. I am a Canadian living in the province of Manitoba which has one of Canada's greatest peat bogs in the northern part of the province and in Canada. Being an avid gardener for many decades, I have been using peat. However, recently I decided to switch to coir due to environmental concerns re carbon dioxide release in mining peat. On the other hand, I am sure that thousands of hectares are being cleared for growing coconut plants in the poor regions of the world. Forests also absorb great amounts of carbon dioxide. For myself the buying decision comes down to costs. Presently, coir is somewhat cheaper to purchase relative to peat moss. Also coco coir appears to be more sustainable compared to Peat.
Canada has some of the strictest laws in the world regarding our resources. It is safe to say our natural resources are carefully monitored and restored. Even our oil and gas is some of the cleanest sourced in the world. But no one would know that unless they lived here. We are very proud of this.
Thank you for hitting so many points from either side, it’s a tough question, peat from Canada shows to be sustainable, the release of carbon on a massive massive scale is significant, I believe less carbon is produced from transporting coco globally, although it’s significant, I think either option will be a selfish luxury for me, I’ll stick with my compost 😁😁
Many years ago I decided to simplify my gardening practices. One of my favorite "tools" to do this is Google. Like any tool, Google's effectiveness depends on how you use it. For example, when I read, see or hear a gardening tip or advice to do a particular thing that looks intriguing, I will do a Google search on the topic. I will focus primarily on scientific pieces and credible field trials. I avoid anecdotal testimonies. But my favorite way to use Google is to search the subject prefaced with the word "myth". This approach leads me to (of course) opposing views on the topic. What I've noticed by doing searches this way is that I tend to find more "evidence-based" pieces and less anecdotal ones. In my mind, that is a good thing. It is also a method that leads one to some very useful web sites (that is, ones that survive my C.R.A.P. test - Google it). The title of this video intrigued me as I had several years ago done some research on the topic. The information you provided supported my conclusions and I was pleased to see you reference Robert Pawlis' site Garden Myths. This site, among several others, is one of my favorite sources of solid, non-anecdotal information about gardening practices. And it was one I found using my "Myth" searches. My approach to gardening (probably because I'm cheap and lazy) is to use plenty of compost and just enough water. Four or five years ago I switched to "no-till" gardening which I thought at the beginning was just another gimmick and too good to be true. I did a two-season trial by converting a couple of my raised beds to no-till and while my results with similar crops weren't spectacular, they were at least equal to if not better than my tilled beds. That was enough for me! No more digging! Anyway, this comment is already overly-long. I'd like to say that I recently discovered your website and have watched many of your videos. You have reliable information and advice and a wonderfully-clear way of presenting it. Many thanks for your efforts. I am now a subscriber. Cheers.
Thank you for a pleasantly thorough comment. I appreciate when other gardeners also take the time to find accurate and tested information, rather than rely on myths and misinformation. Welcome to the channel. I'll strive to continue presenting accurate knowledge.
@@GardenerScott Captain Ron's comment is exactly how I research all things google - keeps me in the scientific data and out of the land of myths. That's why I like your site. Where I live in Canada, we have acidic soil and moss want's to pop up even in our lawns. So much moss in the woodlands that it's like walking on carpet. In Europe, more peat bogs were destroyed by urban sprawl than gardening.
So you actually trust Google? You aren't aware their info and links are hugely biased? Hmm. I'll stick to peat until I find some consistent, unbiased info. Gardener Scott and Captain Ron are maybe the beginning on this honesty (neither really can answer this question despite a lot of research) Beyond Scott and Ron, finding honesty and non-biased info to know for sure ain't gonna happen in my lifetime, I assure you.
Interesting and informative video. One issue I saw omitted is that the shipping industry are heavy polluters and pump 1 billion metric tons of carbon into the atmosphere a year, accounting for 3% of greenhouse gases. It seems the main issue is just too many people. No matter what we do, we create environmental issues and there is no "Harmless" solution to may things. I am recently retired and just getting into gardening. I came across this video looking for info or Coir and seed starting mixes. Given all the information available, I am now less likely to use Coir. Since I live in zone 9B, I think I will do more direct sowing into my beds an try using cold frames to get plants started early to minimize my use of Peat. I have already started composting to supplement my beds yearly. Thanks for this video, I will have to check out some of your other videos.
Peat moss also known as Sphagnum peat moss is a great soil amendment. I use it for seed starting and in my raised beds. Tried coco coir once and and it killed all my vegetable starts because it contains salt. I also use a lot of garden, raised bed and potting soil. I'm a peat moss user! Hate if you must! Lol
Depends on the plant you're growing. I used to watch this education TV urban horticulturist that would recommend all your plants be grown in Sphagnum moss. In fact, his entire show revolved around it.
Interesting. I do use Coir. The reason being is I don't have to throw it away. After each use it gets washed and treated and I can reuse it as many times as I want. I don't have to worry about sustainabilty. In that way Coir is more eco friendly.
I prefer peat, but use coir. Don't know what part of the state's your in, but here in the southwestern desert, coir is less than half the cost of peat. Peat is 14 to 20 bucks for a 3 cubic foot bag. Coir is just under 6 bucks for a 2.25 cubic foot brick. Ash works great to help neutralize peat.
I love peat. It great for my blueberries and my medication. My plants love a low ph. So I added peat. I have no issues now. I just use water. I am Canadian, it’s our winters, it rejuvenates it.
Hi there could this be use for cannabis plants? I got a 4 plants ready to be transplanted soon. For medical care I need something that will work natural and not add chemicals.
I really appreciated this video. I had recently read that peat is not sustainable, and that coir was the way to go. I’m so glad to know that Canada is managing this precious resource. And, obviouslynthere are pros and cons to each. If I understand correctly, the top layers are the living Sphagnum moss. Once it dies, it breaks down and forms the peat. Peat moss is acidic, Sphagnum moss is neutral. Many years ago, I discovered quite by accident that Sphagnum is wonderful for rooting cuttings. I had moved all of my plants to terracotta to improve air to roots. I nestled the pots in Sphagnum and every week I dumped a bucket of water in. The moss soaked up the water, holding it for the plants to use when ready. The whole fibers had enough air between the fibers that I didn’t have any problems with root rot. Well, then my Mother of Thousands started dropping babies. My Baby Tears draped over the pot and touched the Sphagnum. Whenever I pruned a leaf from African violets I stuck it in the moss. Everything took root. You name it, I rooted it. I found this vastly superior to rooting in water. When you plant up a cutting that was rooted in water, there is invariably some damage done to the root hairs. The newly planted baby suffers a brief setback as it recovers. I didn’t get that when rooted in Sphagnum. I took a small clump of Sphagnum with the tiny rootball and buried it in the soil. I’ve been away from plants now, for many years, I’m just getting started again. I’m reading and binging oh UA-cam trying to catch up on current knowledge. I’m trying to fill my apartment with living green stuff. That’s the best remedy I know for winter!
Your understanding is accurate, with a slight modification. The peat is partially decomposed because the anaerobic environment slows the process so much. Thanks for sharing your experience with Sphagnum moss. it's definitely underused by gardeners.
Here in Louisiana where we have lots of marsh that contains peat. I go to a plant and they allow me to shovel up all of their loose debris ! I incorporate it in my garden and it has worked amazingly well and grows potatoes better than I’ve ever been able to without it. It keeps the soil very porous !
Back home in Hawaii, my grandma taught me to shred the coconut husks up then use the skin of the coconut as the planter. We would use a bit of compost mixed with the husks and use those to plant seeds in the skin because they hold water well. The skin will already have cracks in them so the water drains well. And when the seedlings are ready to transplant, the skin of the coconut has broken down enough to bury the skin with the husk and compost as a whole in the garden. It's a one time use but at least the coconut will be one with nature again. :) OH and it works very well.
That's a great idea! As I was listening to all this I was thinking, how did people start seedlings in the years before either peat or coir were available?
@@laurabehenna7950 I was raised on a 1940's farm and never started from seedlings in the garden. I assume seedlings started with affordable lights and heaters.
@@evilroyslade2491 I start my seedlings in an unheated greenhouse. They come up when the conditions are right for them. That's how nature does it, so that's how I do it now.
I think it was good for you to use your local coconuts for a very good use, in your area........here where I live in GA. the coconut is very expensive to plant in.........I just bought 3 cubic feet of peat moss for 11.00 last weekend in Home Depot..........I was thinking about ordering some of the coconut coir soon but it is 25.00 for a little block and I have to put off planting and I feel it is not worth it.........I searched and searched for the right answer, and here I found it from Gardner Scott.......
Wow, the 2 months I can buy a whole coconut, it costs $4.50, so that’s not very many seedlings!
Hello Scott, I'm a coir and coir pith products manufacturer based in Sri Lanka. many of the arguments you make are true. However I have to comment on few points you make about Sri Lanka,
1. Working conditions - coir pith is extracted from the coconut husk when its wet. so dust is not an issue at this point. dust can be an issue while its been dried and processed. Workers wear necessary protection like dust masks and working gloves. Most of the production facilities use dust extractors as well.
Sri Lanka has strict employee protection laws and worker welfare is a statutory requirement. All companies must contribute to an employee provident fund (pension fund). We take care of our people.
2. Sri Lanka is a tropical country. temperature between 25C - 35C (77F - 95F) is not how for us !
3. Calcium Nitrate is the only chemical that is used for buffering. However companies must obtain a licence from the Coconut Development Authority and Central Environment Authority to use it. and to get the license a company MUST have treatment plants. therefore untreated harmful chemicals are not released to the environment as you say. (This is for Sri Lanka)
4. Smaller companies just wash the coir pith to reduce salinity. the used water is released to coconut plantations, coconuts thrive in salty conditions so that is also not harmful to the environment.
5. As for the use of water, Sri Lanka is blessed with plenty of water, there are 103 rivers in this tiny island the size if Florida state. in fact, there was so much rain during the past few months, flooding is an issue now.
Sri Lanka is a beautiful and very diverse country with friendly and welcoming people. Its not an under developed, malnourished wasteland. Sri Lanka's education system is one of the best in the world with a literacy rate of nearly 100%. among the highest in the developing world.
We have a rich culture and heritage with a written history of more than 2500 years. Literally.
I can only speak for Sri Lanka !
Thank you very much for first-hand information. I appreciate you sharing it.
Thank you kind sir! We use coir in hydroponics, and then spread the nutrient rich used coir to mulch our outdoor plants, as Australia gets to over 40C in summer. It also helps water to reach through the hydrophobic sandy soil here. Coir (pronounced : coy-er ) is far more pleasant to work with. And I agree about the wonderful people of Sri Lanka! (Tom's wife)
Thanks for your helpful information. It sounds like a dream world, interested to visit Sri lanka when travelling is permitted after the pandemic. Will continue to use coir for my home garden. Thanks.
Afternoon . I don't understand what is meant by..."used for buffering." So is the Calcium Nitrate absorbed in the coir as an added nutrient for the benefit of the end user?
Way cool, thanks for sharing.
One of the absolute best presentations I’ve ever heard. As a past instructor, I hear a perfect presentation of fact and opportunity to learn all factors related to this subject! Thanks much. I will be a better gardener for it.
not sure about the part where he is scaring us with "chemicals" used in processing coir. what he is talking is just sea water - yes, it is salty, but if you soak coir in freshwater at home the salt will be washed off, no biggy. no need to scare your audience with scary
"chemicals"
Play at 1.5 speed. You'll thank me later
Im not the only one 😂
1.25 is better.
😁😂
Yeah, I upped the speed immediately as well.
Yeah I just bumped up the speed to 1.5. Holy cow could this guy talk any slower? Is this gardening for kindergarteners?
Well this debate between Gardener Scott and Gardener Scott is one of the better ones I've seen. I think I'm going to side with Gardner Scott!
LOL, me too.
too damn funny
Hahaha
Peat moss is for me been using it for years and I wont change .
Not an easy decision, but yeah.
I have watched dozens of your videos and I love them. This one was one of the most thoughtful and I really appreciate the honest information. Thanks Gardener Scott!
I've used both, and personally I prefer coir, mainly for the way it wicks water and maintains aerated structure. Peat will often channel if not wetted properly. But the issues you raise here are important . Thank you. As an interesting (and maybe unpleasant) side note, peat can harbor many fungal organisms, including one called sporotrichosis. I was infected by sporotrichosis through a cut on my hand while handling peat. It entered my lymphatic system and produced lesions up my arm to the shoulder. By the time it was diagnosed, I need two years (no exaggerating) of antifungal treatment orally to completely eradicate it. It's not a common problem but does occur, especially in peat from certain parts of the world. I guess the takeaway is always wear gloves!
Thank you, Gardener Scott! I largely compost everything I can, but this is a very well-reasoned video for those times when you need something off the shelf
This was a fascinating revelation! You mentioned briefly once that compost might be better than either, and when you make your own, it’s pretty sustainable. I think I’ll strive to minimize my use of either, and amend my garden with leaf mould, homemade compost, and other homemade amendments. Love all your posts, Gardener Scott!! Thank you!!
Oh dear lord. I worked as a heavy equipment mechanic at a peat harvesting operation for years. Yes, they strip off the top couple of feet, not because it's a living layer, but because everything below that is too wet. There are MILLIONS of square kilometers of peat bog in Canada alone, and the peat harvesting industry hasn't touched even a fraction of one percent of it. I have ZERO doubt that the coconut industry are the one's responsible for slagging the peat industry in the first place. They never mention that they clear huge amounts of forest in order to put in coconut plantations. They also ignore the extra energy it takes to refine coco coir and the extra fuel it takes to ship it to you. It does NOT take millions of years for a peat bog to regenerate. The place I worked at has been in the area for about 60 years, and you can't even tell that anything was done in the areas they harvested back when they started up. It's unbelievable how much nonsense there is floating around about the peat moss industry. When in doubt, follow the money, and I'd bet my lunch the nonsense was started by the coconut industry in order to get the guilt ridden to buy their product. Use whatever you want. I'd recommend going with what's cheaper, and forget about the environmental guilt trip.
Thanks for the info!
Save peet!!
Currently learning about both coco and peat, thank you for posting this!
There's peat in my water filter...
It's everywhere.
I find this such an interesting issue! I use peat based starter mixes and potting soils. One thing that I think is important to mention is that after a peat bog in Canada 🇨🇦 has been harvested for 20 or 30 years they reseed it with living material from another bog and within another couple of years it becomes a healthy, self sustaining peat bog again! They are very careful about how many years a bog can be harvested because the bogs are incredibly important for water management in the local environment. The fact that more is growing than is being used was a great point!
Klaus
Thanks. Contrary to much misinformation, peat can be and is a sustainable resource.
Makes a valid point ... being self sustaining. Also very little processing and no chemicals.
I watched a really good UA-cam video about the way they start new bogs. It was fantastic!
It takes far longer than that to get a compressed peat layer underneath the top layer of moss. Where are you getting this info of "a couple years?"
bkrbkrl It takes a couple of years for the living layer to reestablish itself and for water management to no longer be necessary, I didn’t say any about compression.
Wow! I didn’t know all this🤦🏽♀️ I sure learned something, I switched from peat to Coir now I gotta seriously rethink this issue! Please allow me to say you’re a great teacher! I too completed the Master Gardeners class, and I’ve learned more RESEARCH (state to state,zone 6 zone) YOU were correct you NEVER STOP LEARNING. So I THANK YOU! For encouraging me to think, rethink some of my methods and choices. This winter I will do much more RESEARCH. Thank you so much. Stay well
Environmental impact of any product matters a lot to me and it's a movement that's growing. Gardener Scott taught me some stuff here especially about Canada's well-managed sustainability of peat. Thank you for the information in this episode and for citing your sources, well done sir.
Thanks Scott, very nice explanation. Composted leaves, woodchips, biochar and animal manure mixed with clay, sand and soil does the job very well. So nothing has to be imported and you can recycle all the stuff from your garden, neighborhood or commune
Yea many people do that in addition to using peat moss when prefered for various uses.
Hear-hear.
I learned something new today, about coir having more potassium, and sequestering calcium. Good to know, for those of us growing tomatoes, etc.
Appreciate all the info, both in the original video, and here below, in the comments.
Coco is amazing for rooting though because of it's natural K content and structure (very fine fibres).
Good quality coco (properly washed and buffered) has almost zero Calcium uptake problems. You can easily improve it by adding Gypsum or Dolomite for Ca/Mg heavy plants.
Coir is awesome for tomato. Soaked and squeezed to help remove any salt.
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 or use a weak solution of calcium nitrate at flowering.
Glad to know about the potassium and calcium content, thanks 😊
Great objective video describing pros and cons of both. Thanks for taking the time to research this!
You're welcome. Thank you.
I sincerely appreciated the objectivity as well. Issues regarding sustainability, ethics, global impacts are very nuanced and complex. Information is often perverted by people with an agenda. I also appreciate that you brought geography into the equation. I live in Canada, so peat is a very logical choice - unlike coconuts which don’t successfully grow in our climate. Thank you for respecting your viewers personal values with your balanced and unbiased review.
Thank you for your response. As someone who is interested in making very conscientious consumer choices I an happy to know that Sri Lanka is a country that protects its environment and it’s employees. This is what we all need to support when choosing to purchase items. Sustainability. I will happily purchase items produced in your country. 🙏
Gardener Scott,
Thank you for the very balanced presentation of arguments for and against both. I come from Sri Lanka, as a child, I used to see mountains of coir dust (we call this short fibres coir dust to distinguish it from the long fibres that are used in ropes, mats, brushes and many other products. ) Long before it became a fashionable peat substitute the stuff used to be processed for the long fibres so whether we use it as a peat substitute or not it will continue to be processed and the arguments about the chemicals water and labour conditions will not change. It truly is a byproduct that does not cause any more environmental damage as it will continue to be produced. So your arguments against it based on the use of water chemicals and slave labour really do not stand scrutiny. I agree with you the compression packaging and transport across the globe does add to its carbon footprint.
As for peat, we in the UK get ours from the republic of Ireland and I am not aware of the details to be certain if the harvesting process is sustainable or not. I am an enthusiastic gardener and I do use both coir and peat in my gardening. As you said in your youtube presentation I use peat if the plants I am propagating or growing like the acid soil conditions, Rhododendrons, Camellias, Blueberry as you mentioned, do better in peat, however for most plants that do not need ericaceous growing substrate I use coir. In fact, orchids particularly do better in the coir so long as the nutrients are supplied separately.
As you said availability and the price also matter, I just cannot get the coconut coir dust in the quantities similar to the bags of Irish moss peat (usually 100L bags) that are available in the UK. I agree with your conclusion that the case is not black and white as most enthusiasts of either product would argue. Thanks for the discussion that I enjoyed.
This is best, most well documented information I have seen on this subject. Good job Gardener Scott. I apppreciate your efforts.
Decided to start gardening & worm farming...which has lead to massive time gathering information. Thank you for taking time to give in-depth Information! Much appreciated from TN
A big benefit of coco is that it's impossible to overwater it. Yet it still holds moisture for a long time.
Nothing is impossible... However peat is a pain in the ass to get it to initially absorb water.
@@wanderingspider8988
Use warm water
It doesn't hold water for a long time, infact, only for a short time. That's why I'd mix some perlite into it
Coco is hydrophilic, peat is hydrophobic. No one is best. Combination of both (+perlite/rice hulls) is the best.
Peat is superior even in the watering department. With enough perlite, peat is impossible to overwater too.
I think it all boils down to which part of the world you are gardening. I grew up in the Philippines. After we have removed the coconut meat (for copra), the coconut husks are piled up to dry. When it’s dried, the shells are removed to use as fuel for the dryer (for copra) and some as charcoal (the best!), some are cleaned and converted to laddles, spoons, cups, bowls, buttons, everything that your creative mind can create. The outer fiber of the husk are gathered to make some of the strongest ropes we use in the farm, some (we use a lot), we use as planters. Yes, those fine particles are sometimes gathered (as peat) for the garden, but we pay more attention to the fibers. We harvest coconut every 3 months for copra (and the husks do pile up), so we have a pit for the “extra husks” and all the farm refuse to go. Believe me, the soil coming out from there is the best garden mix we ever have! We hardly have peat bogs in our land, so gathering peat for our garden is out of the question. As for the argument of processing, sustainability and environmental friendliness, in my part of the world, coconut coir is hands down the best choice. Since living in NYC for the last 40 years, I have become acquainted to the use of peat for my choice potted plants.
Glad for the info on the differences. Here in Trinidad coconut coir is relatively cheaper because coconuts are grown here and is readily available so I use coir. 😊
Gardener Scott! Your demeanor is very relaxing and you present information very precisely. I’m subscribing. The world needs more like you!
Thanks so much. Welcome to the channel!
Thank you for an unbiased opinion!
Wonderful discussion! Thank you so much. You mentioned compost being ideal option and would love to hear more about it. I’ve been worm composting for 15 years and love the results I get in my small garden. I have clay soil which I keep infusing with composting towers so that I can improve soil quality and for aeration. I’ve never used peat or core and have not missed them.
You'll never get roots whiter and with more fuzziness than coco will give you, next level !! Love coco
Peat is difficult to wet when it dries out, whereas coir is easy to wet. Peat degrades rapidly after one year; coir lasts longer.
I love the way Scott speaks. So clear! I love that he states the facts and doesn't tell you to do one or the other. I would like sources in the description but I know from searching the web that he didn't say anything false.
Nice job presenting both sides while welcoming comments. If only all "hot topics" could be discussed this way. Good food for thought. Thanks.
I live in Canada and have always used peat moss(even when I moved to North Carolina I bought peat moss, I have since moved back to Canada) but after listening to many gardeners promoting coco coir I was going to start using it; not after listening to your information. Thanks for sharing, I will stick to local product.
You missed the point. Local products don't make the cut.
What ever is available on Clearance at the end of the season is my choice. I bought a pallet of potting mix at my local Walmart last year for $1 a bag! My garden was very appreciative.
if price is the only criteria the destructive choices will usally be the cheapest. if you destroy something for short term gains the product can be often very cheap. Like plundering eco systems in a few decades that needed thousands of years to develop. Like is the case with peat moss. It is of course cheap, because the damage in the countries where it is harvested is usually not factored in (those bogs are also often important for the hydrology, and if enough of the peat moss is removed that sponge is sorely missed).
The reason plundering of the bogs is prohibited in rich countries (think Germany for instance, Austria, likely also France, .....) is that the destruction of ecosystems IN the country is not tolerated. The "solution" is then either to import it from other countries where local oligarchs have more influence on politics or the population is so busy with surviving that they can't spare a thought on the long term effects of plundering the bogs. usually those countries are extra corrupt and that shows in the extraction of all natural resources incl. peat.
Countries that have a lot of peat may be more generous with allowing extraction (Canada and Sweden, although the Swedes normally look better after their environment).
When you consider the occasional break throughs in bio mimicry - we cannot afford to lose eco systems, we do not know what we lose when we destroy those niches for short term (minimal) gains. _Are you really THAT poor that you could not buy a soil amendment that would be SUSTAINABLE or find a workaround to using peat ?_
The niches that are destroyed within a few decades have a very unique and specialized plant and animal life - we cannot afford to lose that just because there is no flashing price tag on it for the costs of destruction.
We could just not care what is going on in Canada, or the Baltic states and the negative effects on their hydrology (that will hit them sooner or later - not the gardeners in search of the cheapest price and not the people that made money from extraction - the price will be to pay by the locals that used to benfit from the eco system as long as it was intact.
It is worse than the regional damage - mankind might miss out on that one plant, or that one fungi, or bacteria that only grows there. (bacteria that have special properties, molecules that are medicine, or inspire the development of new materials or medical drugs, or paints or coatings, fibre etc.).
This year I used a product called Sea Soil. It is made from composted fish, and ground bark. Here in British Columbia - - Canada. Both are in good supply. From the forest industry, and the fishing industry. Composted for two years. Used it to fill my planters, and amend my soil. Everything is growing fantastic!!! And it's made right here on Vancouver Island!!
We live across (The Lake) The Strait...can we get that here?
Composted fish = plundering the oceans. The Great White Sharks might be already in trouble. Some Orcas recently "hunted" a yacht off Gibraltar. (probably checking out if that is another whale or large shark).
Fish is used as soil amendment, let that sink in ! I can easily belive that the fishers take that out of the ocean, the question is if that t is good. - Those fish would be the source of food for other fish. O.K. maybe they use the waste when they process fish (but even then it would be better to return the nutrients to the ocean.
@@xyzsame4081 the fish compost is made with the waste products from fish processing, and is composted with waste products from the forest industry. Taking two materials which we have a lot of here in B.C. which would end up in the land fill, and turning them into a valuable commodity, creating jobs as a side benefit in a region that is short of jobs.
@@xyzsame4081 >>We eat fish, God gave us fish.......I live close to a fish market and restaurant......and to me, if I was smart I would ask for their "waste" to grow food in my garden.....God gave us the fish to use.....Jesus ate fish and gathered up the scraps ........In no way are we to stop eating fish so that they could remain in the ocean to feed other fish............wow, ......Animals were made for man........ not man for the animals...wow
Your arguments point toward peat; whichever I choose, I so appreciate how you investigated and shared the information. Refreshing.
This is kinda what I already suspected. Thanks for helping to clarify things.
I will continue to take my maple tree leaves into my garden as fall mulch. After winter I till it in. My father would ask the neighbors if he could take their downed maple leaves Would heap on an large old tarp and drag it home. They were happy to get rid of the leaves and Dad’s garden produced enough to share. Make your own mulch/fall protection cover. Dad thought maple leafs broke down well in NW winter climate. Worked for us.
perfect!! another reason leaves, maple over most others is king in organic gardening. It increases humus, and the best of all reason it outperforms either peat or the super high salt levels of coir, is the sugar content!!! if you test your veggies you will find they have a much higher brix rating using the leaves! although testing isnt necessary as they are juicier and much more flavorful!! tomatoes 4 life!! god bless and keep using them leaves....
I make same think each automn
I live in Hawaii, coconut coir is available on pretty much every street from my neighbors trees lol
I'm on Maui, any chance you found someone who cleans it up and sells it here local? My main use for Coir is to hold a bit of moisture for starters in aeroponic verticle towers so the minerals are covered, and the soil is not a factor. I have been trying to find a supplier but the only thing close was a non-responsive FB group and DaKine (online) which was actually in Washington. If you happen to know anyone, feel free to message me on IG @a.rae.under.the.stars
Too bad it doesn't work like that. Did you even listen to the video?
@@LittleLikeness i know this guy sells it on craigslist but thats in wahiawa
@@krane15
If all you’re doing is removing salt and sand from the husks, then “chemicals” aren’t necessary, but it’s still a huge waste of Fresh water to soak them and dilute the salt. Also, if the tree grows in the interior of the island/isn’t allowed to make contact with the beaches and ocean water, I think they’d be fine to use without much processing. A lot of the commercially harvested coir comes from huge piles of husks that were previously left to rot for months along the shores of the plantations they were grown in, giving them way too much time to absorb sea water during monsoon/hurricane season.
If they were my own trees, I’d even experiment with composting them. It would help to breakup and soften the more course fibers and would be less back-breaking labor than trying to soak, dry and chop/grind the raw fibers for their usual applications. And the water added during composting could serve to dilute or extract trace amounts of salt.
@@Chemeleon15 The claim that the peat production in CANADA is sustainable and that they harvest much less than grows back is made by the 20 companies that dominate the industry, and are of course organized to protect their interests. They are big fish (local politics) and also provide jobs in rural areas, and the damage is not as visible as let's say an oil spill.
So we can safely assume that they get away with a lot if they want to, and if the area after "restauration" will not look like a mess, the locals will be content (never mind what a biologist would say because of course they can impossibly restore a system that developed over thousands of years.
I'm a Colorado girl living zone 6. I loved your discussion on the pros and cons of peat vs. Coconut. The carbon release to environment doesn't really "hold water" pun intended. Unless we are burning the peat and Canadian processing plants use respirators for workers. There isn't really a significant amount of carbon released to the air. The peat is still peat, just dried then rehydrated at a later date. And North America benefits.
Penny,
I suspect the carbon release from peat moss he spoke of is from when it decomposes. If left in the bog, the carbon is held under the living moss, in the ground. If put in your garden, it's decomposing and releasing a lot of that carbon into the atmosphere because it's not sealed off under a thick layer of living moss.
Thank you for this very educational and informative helpful video. I'm just learning (at 73 years old) about Coconut Coir and peat not only in use for my potted plants and my first garden in 20 years but also my vermicomposting with worms. I thought the video speed was just fine because video speed is never a one size fits all. I find if I'm not interested in what's being said, I just fast-forward. Thank you and I'm on to the next!
When you get truthful information, it's amazing how the natrative changes.
I used coco coir (mixed with potting soil) in potted outside topiary plants, lilac plants specifically. After 4 years they are thriving and doing very well.
As with everything, there are always two sides to a coin. Thank you for showing both those sides.
Technically there’s a third side to a coin if you think about it he raised some good points but there may be some more information out there that is not being shown to see the full picture none of us know everything there are uses for both I’m sure and as he saidBoth are potentially sustainable and have the downsides
I'm glad you raised the issue of processing of coir, I wasn't aware of the chemical and water use. Personally I'd rather not use either, I'd prefer to use local materials to create a cycle in my own backyard, such as mulching fallen branches and composting. There are other options besides going to a store. I feel like in most cases if you're taking fertility and materials from an ecosystem it is inevitably going to do it harm.
I prefer peat moss. I use local materials too.
Rite on.
Thank you for your clear approach to this difficult question. Truly appreciated.
Thanks for shedding some light
Really great source of information on the two products, especially cause sustainability was my biggest issue. What gets me the most is the fact that Coir takes so much /fresh/ water to make it usable, and water is already such a limited resource, and that the processing and shipping of it, and the deforestation to make more coconut farms, also contributes to the carbon issues. Thank you for making such a thorough video on the pros and cons of both; I didn't know that peat was actually growing faster than we can use it.
fresh water is NOT a scarce resource in the tropics. On a global scale peat moss extraction destroys eco systems. Coconuts _can_ be grown in a sustainable manner. (and put to good use, everything of the plant). As part of a plantation (not a monoculture) they can also fix the soil, and provide income for local farmers. Never mind that they are also pioneer plants that will grow in sand and tolerate salt.
Coco is reusable.
I have found a mixture of 1/3 peat, 1/3 coir, and 1/3 perlite to be my favorite all around mix. You get the benefits from both the peat and the coco and end up with the right ph.
I like the sound of that recipe. Thanks.
If you're not potting plant material and are instead planting in the ground, then you need to use some original ground from the site where you're planting your plant material, whatever that is.
PERLITE is a type of volcanic silicate glass. It's mostly air so it's used for drainage.
Be aware it can affect the body much as asbestos, causing a permanent incurable lung disease called silicosis. If used without a dust mask, you are likely to gasp for a looking time before secondary pneumonia kills you.
For drainage, I use the MUCH LARGER, heavier chunks of volcanic lava foam aka pumice. You can get a bag of 1/2 cu. ft. for a few bucks at any big hardware store or garden center.
I live in an urban forest (primarily maples) and already raked up about 600 gal. of dry leaves which we are grinding. I'm planning to compost some of that in a cold frame to bring in for seed starting in early April. (4/28 is l s.f. here.) We have at least 2 kinds of earthworms in my 15 raised beds each of which get 2-6" of ground leaves every fall. But my hubby won't let me raise them indoors.
I use peat for my blue berry beds and sometimes to make potting mix. I'm wondering if I should use half-finished leaf mold plus commercial, heat treated worm castings as a seed starter mix? Worm castings are somewhat alkaline.
Coir actually doesn't add nutrition. You might want to add very finely ground eggshells to balance the pH.
This is what I do also. With charcoal and sometimes sand or pumice pebbles.
OMG that's more complicated than I thought. My soil is rather heavy with clay and lime, but I think I'll keep making and using my own compost as a soil additive and fertilizer. Thanks for pointing out some new facts to me.
pelletized gypsum assists in breaking up clay...(do not put sand in clay... clay and sand = pottery ) horse manure compost is best animal compost...free to the taking at some stables ...
Compost seems to be really good to improve clay soil (and lots of mulch on top, so that the soil life can work it and soften it, you can use compost as mulch as well). Then of course daikon radish to aerate it * and chicory seems to be even better as cover / soil improvement crop resp. "green manure".
you can let the radish in the soil over winter and let it rot, the earth worms will be happy. Rye is also said to be a good and robust cover crop.
Never leave the soil naked and consider no-till practices - or you will constantly kill and disturb the soil life that would do the magic with you clay soil.
Chicory is a perennial (2 years I think) and is rooting very deep (it breaks through bedrock according to a speaker of Cotswold Seeds, an U.K. company, that seell seeds for green manure and cover crops and holds seminars and webinars for farmers).
They also say that cover crops with a LOT of different plants perform better than one plant or only a mix of two, or 4 or 6, They tested a mix of 12 and it by far outperformed all other mixes and also the single performance of the best among the varieties.
That is important, because for farmers the seed costs and easy germination matter as well, and the cover crop that had the best performance as "monoculture" is not among the varities with cheap seeds (for instance clovers) But luckily they can be mixed with much cheaper seeds and the results will be even better. Plus some tolerance - if the conditions are not good for one plant, there are still 11 others to step up.
Nature likes variety.
Chicory is also a fancy vegetable that is protected in year 2 from the sun, so it will stay white and what not - well if you grow it as green manure and because the deep and extensive roots will do wonders for your clay soil, you you can spare yourself the trouble. Not sure if it is good to eat if it is not groomed to be white, I think it is less bitter then (but bitter would be healthy. I seem to remember that chicory is related to endive salad).
U.S. farmers have Daikon radishes sown by planes ! to counteract the compaction of the earth with the large machines, and they do not grow them for food. the varities may not be quite as tasty as the ones grown as vegetable. The purpose is soil improvement and they are composted on site l (eaten by the earth worms).
But normal varieties will do - it is a question of seed cost and optimitzed specialized performance for the farmers with large fields and machine use, but a middle of the road seed will do well for a hobby gardener.
I would use gypsum only sparingly - if at all. If the soil has been already somewhat developed it does not need the gyspsum (if you plant a tree for instance you could add a little bit into a larger than usual plant hole). and it can cost you some fertility and the effect is not lasting. Compost also improves the structure of clay soil and that IS lasting.
I know this is a really old video but I love the way you put things. The only thing that's missing is the nutritional value of each but amazing video and yes I did learn a whole new side of the debate. I've always been a 50/50 ish man myself in this video only helps confirm that I will remain a 50/50 ish kind of man.
Thank you Gardner’s Scott. You gave us a lot to think about and as is the case in most situations, the answers are not just black-and-white. It’s so easy to vilify one side of an argument, without thoroughly investigating the minutia of the details on both sides. I live right next to an organic farm and we have a lot of organic compost that makes its way into my garden. I do also use peat in my garden. I think I feel that if Canada is doing as good, a job of harvesting, Peat, sustainably, as you mention… I’m OK with using it.
I stopped using both several years ago because of the very issues you mention. Coconut coir is the worst for growing plant. Stunted for sure but that stuff takes years to break down in the soil. I'm still finding pockets of it in the garden. Now I stick to making my own compost and using old hay as a mulch. I have had no problems since. I really like your teaching method.
Thank you. Compost is the better choice, by far.
You plant in straight up compost?
It is retaining carbon in your soil and amending the crumb structure.... Doesn't matter if the fibres are visible years later.... The Coco is not toxic and gradually releases K.
Right. It’s not intended as a sole media. It is intended as an additive. As with peat moss. If the plants were stunted, most likely amendments were not done, and cal mag supplement was not given. Coco coir needs calcium and magnesium regularly unlike soil
@@getlost3094 Coco is what the Dutch use in Greenhouse Tomato cultivation (and most fast growing annual species including floriculture).... Tomatoes are notoriously hungry for Ca & Mg.... Coco works perfectly. Only grower errors stunt plants.
í use coir, as y make it my self... I live at the carribean and peat is not a good option... I believe that local is always the best choice, and since your local is not coconut makes sense to get the Canadian peat
I agree. Many others shared the same experience.
Exactly! I live in the Philippines where coir is more accessible and cheaper. Support local. 👍👍👍
Am at my in laws. Collecting some of their unused coconut coirs and planning to shred them somehow. I see the argument for peat as well. In all go local :)
Yeah, I think he's thinking less like an environmentalist and more like if he was pushing more farming that doesnt go well with environment/geography and how the earth is changing right now. I trust coir, I only new about it first as a safe substate for my baby gecko's tank. It has live plants the substrate is bioactive. I also know coconut to be good in fungus regulation. And there's a lot of pollution out there that will change the mycological landscape of Earth. A good way we can tell if the Earth is sick from pollution and getting a fever is by seeing how our soils/Earth's substrate is doing, bioactively speaking.
Same here David.
Some seed needs different things to start germinating, so there’s a use for both, for example succulents might prefer the coco coir, as it dries out way faster than peat or even compost.
I use Peat but Thank You for showing both side by side Gardener Scott 💯
This was very enlightening. I really like Gardener Scott and I feel like he's a great "college professor" and I honestly think the lumber business around the world is worse than peat harvest. Another thing that Gardener Scott didn't mention however is how much forest still remains in Canada. In Canada, there's over 347 million hectares of forest (1335913.46856 sq. miles). That's about 40% of Canada. And they've deforested less than 1% of it since 1990. That's a LOT of trees! So naturally, I also agree with Gardener Scott.
Peat base mixes with coir as an amendment is a great product for a commercial greenhouse. Coir doesn't collapse on itself so you'll get less "shrinkage" in the pot so the mix doesn't pull away from the walls allowing water & fertilizer to bypass the mix and end up on the floor.
Thank you for this wonderful information. I found this video very helpful and useful.
You're welcome.
Thank you for your perspectives on this issue. I have heard arguments pro and con on both products, but my own experience has been that my plants generally do much better in peat-based mixes, and often not well at all in coir-based mixes, particularly if I use coir directly from the brick. I have long suspected it was from a lack of nutrients and possibly some growth-inhibitory factor, and your information seems to confirm my suspicion, at least as far as nutrition. I am relieved to find that the sustainability issue is not as straightforward as I have been led to believe, and feel less guilty about using peat, which seems to work better for me.
On the farm in MN there were implantable peat fields. What a dusty mess in the wind!
Nice measured approach. Thanks
Grew up watching Dad using peat and it always worked well. Sticking with it :)
Excellent video and enlightening. Ive been trying to use both but only buy coir when its at clearance prices because like you said its quiet expenseve and lets face today most people grow their own veggies to get better food at a lower price.
I really enjoyed this one. When I took up gardening last year I noticed that gardening people were avoiding any discussion or promotion of peat moss. I was purchasing compost with manure and was told it was fine for growing this way, was never told to mix it with peat. I learned eventually that I needed to add 1/3 to 1/5 peat to the dairy doo compost. The mix as is was too rich for many vegetables and not aerated enough. All of the youtube gardeners I was watching completely avoided the peat moss topic as well. I just pondered and wondered what the big deal was, and assumed there was a sustainability issue with peat. Now I realize that global warming was part of the discussion. Thank you for speaking so clearly on this divisive topic as well as all the other topics you speak about. I question the veracity of global warming arguments in general, but it's nice to be informed about both peat and coir!
Where do you buy your strong compost...? I buy black cow brand in my part of the country and it has so many sticks in it......
@@carolburnett8372 I make my own compost. I save kitchen scraps, coffee filters and paper towels. I put them in plastic trash cans with holes drilled. I add plant waste, leaves, shredded brown bags and ripped cardboard. In 6-9 months I have beautiful black gold. No need to purchase potting soil or compost. I do add peat moss as it’s too dense for some veggies & needs some aeration.
@@Waterlily480 Thanks, I like the idea of the huge black bag with holes......this way I can quit throwing this mess all over my garden to trash it up as I view it out my kitchen window........also I might put it close to the back door so I won't put off the trips to the garden....and the idea of dry peat moss put in between dumpings makes it not seem as gross, thank you
@@carolburnett8372 I hadn’t thought of adding the peat to the garbage. Usually I add it to the finished compost when I am potting my plants. It needs to be well watered and mixed to absorb the water or it may not be effective.
@@Waterlily480 -- I am listening on uTube to Gardner Scott, and he talks about a mulch bag and getting an anaerobic or aerobic, I am not sure how to get each one. I purchased a huge trashcan that opens up with a foot petal and recluses automatically. I bought thick industrial bags to line it with........I guess this way it will not really get oxygen.....wonder if this will work?? Ideas ??
What a great, very clear explanation. Thank you!
Thank you for the detailed comparisons of peat and coir.
Love Gardener Scott. This man lowers my blood pressure
This was a very useful video. I had thought that coconut coir was the less harmful option, but if all of this information is true, I now believe that I want to minimize or eliminate both peat moss and coco coir from my use entirely and try to just get by without them.
More peat moss for me😃
Well, there's also local ecosystems. Adding mass amounts of foreign materials to our local (as in North American) soils, changes the overall health of our ecosystems. Keeping it as local as possible is usually the most eco sustainable for native plants and wildlife. Any northern areas are better using peat.
CO2 is plant food, so that should enhance growth..
Another part is the natural good fungi, minerals and bacteria that is in peat, and not in coir. Plants need these, and they help our local northern eco systems flourish.
I"ve started using compost (mainly my own) and either vermiculite or perlite and so far so good. But I'm going to check out where vermiculite and perlite come from and how their production might be effecting the environment - physical and social. Thanks for this consideration, which extends to more than peat and coir.
I learned my thoughts are easily modified by Scott. Thanks Scott!
THANK YOU!! Finally someone that has researched thoroughly, dared to speak the truth and shed light on the many myths and rumors that many just blindly follow!!
As per usual both informative and thorough. I am using coco mats for my micro greens but now may look into dye free egg carton DIY paper making…. Old blenders are good for that!
A very well reasoned discussion on the pros and cons of each.
the cons of coir are kind of BS in my point of view. there is organic coir available, I get some locally and it is made in the USA with no slave labor and no chemicals
Great, thoughtful video, based on facts! Thank you. I am a retired Canadian, living in Malaysia, love gardening, and have access to and use both, peat and coir. I understand your points about the environmental concerns of shipping and trucking coir half around the world (not to mention the working conditions in many developing countries). The irony here is that our peat is shipped from Holland (half around the world, as it were), and coir is available from a responsible supplier a quarter mile down our road - just the opposite from your home base. Nevertheless, I subscribed to your channel, because of the broad range of practical gardening topics. Thanks! God bless! Keep up the good work.
Thank you, Peter. You are in an interesting region, truly the opposite of what I highlighted. Take advantage of the irony and make the best of your coir. :)
Your content has been very illuminating and I for one, find you very clear, concise and relaxing to listen to unlike other vloggers who can’t speak fast enough and end up getting their tongue in a pretzel!!
As to peat versus core? I bought core for the first time this year based on all the hype, but have not yet used it. I’ve always used peat but in smaller than called for amounts as I find an equal mix of peat and compost to be far more successful than the mostly peat soils on the market. I make my own compost and supplement it with manure from local farmers and to a lesser degree peat for the outdoor garden. For potted and house plants, I buy a quality bagged soil with a 50/50 ratio of peat to compost. I then add my own perlite, vermiculite and other useful amendments. Thanks to your eye opening information, I will continue to use peat to a lesser degree and feed the coconut core to my hungry bin of worms!!!
Another thing that you forgot to mention about coconut coir is that it needs to be washed before being used. Many of the countries that produce coir use salt water in their processing because fresh water is not abundant in their regions but ocean water is. That means that we have to use our fresh water to wash the coir before mixing it into a potting mix or risk having too many salts in the potting mix for our plants.
I have alkaline soill that prevents my plants from absorbing iron. Peat moss has helped my soil become a little more acidic and micro nutrients arent as locked up in the soil. Iron deficiency had me accept yellow leaves regardless of adding Iron via soil or foliar. Today my entire yard is greener without adding Iron and my soil analysis have never been better.
If your soil is higher ph peate can help lower it in a few months compared to years with sulfur.
Have always used peat and never really thought of coco coire till I started watching your videos. I wondered if I was using the right product. So glad you did this video. As usual, life is complicated and in the gray area, never a clear right and wrong issue. However, I can’t possibly pick up coco coire now without thinking of people suffering from the chemicals. There is no way. So, I’m sticking with peat till something better comes around.
I so agree with you......those suffering are the ones who are needy of many things we take for granted......
I seem to be allergic to the coir rugs so maybe the soil too.
Thank you for talking about what I knew for years. Peat has micro nutrients and coco has none. Been using peat forever and will continue to.. Thanks again!
So I glad I could help.
Yes, it is best when pH is important and nutrients come from another source.
Exactly the reason i stop using as i wanted a nutrient free mix from the beginning
Many gardeners forget that a nutrient-free mix can be very useful. Thanks,.
@just watching Videos you could probably grown in shredded plastic ... rocks or most anything that has nothing in it.
Hi Scott. You present a good argument for using either peat or coir. I am a Canadian living in the province of Manitoba which has one of Canada's greatest peat bogs in the northern part of the province and in Canada. Being an avid gardener for many decades, I have been using peat. However, recently I decided to switch to coir due to environmental concerns re carbon dioxide release in mining peat. On the other hand, I am sure that thousands of hectares are being cleared for growing coconut plants in the poor regions of the world. Forests also absorb great amounts of carbon dioxide. For myself the buying decision comes down to costs. Presently, coir is somewhat cheaper to purchase relative to peat moss. Also coco coir appears to be more sustainable compared to Peat.
Mr.Scott! I enjoyed your presentation. Don't care about those criticising your speed of talking who think they do not have time. Carry on!
Loved this!! Thank you so much!
I always noticed the choir never came with bugs in the soil.
Thanks!
The best product to use is the one that gives you the results you require! I see it that simply.
I love how you note sustainability and friendliness to the environment as separate things to consider, because they absolutely are.
Canada has some of the strictest laws in the world regarding our resources. It is safe to say our natural resources are carefully monitored and restored. Even our oil and gas is some of the cleanest sourced in the world. But no one would know that unless they lived here. We are very proud of this.
Great arguments.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Thank you for hitting so many points from either side, it’s a tough question, peat from Canada shows to be sustainable, the release of carbon on a massive massive scale is significant, I believe less carbon is produced from transporting coco globally, although it’s significant, I think either option will be a selfish luxury for me, I’ll stick with my compost 😁😁
Carbon is wonderful👍. Ill stick to keep using peat moss too.
Many years ago I decided to simplify my gardening practices. One of my favorite "tools" to do this is Google. Like any tool, Google's effectiveness depends on how you use it.
For example, when I read, see or hear a gardening tip or advice to do a particular thing that looks intriguing, I will do a Google search on the topic. I will focus primarily on scientific pieces and credible field trials. I avoid anecdotal testimonies. But my favorite way to use Google is to search the subject prefaced with the word "myth". This approach leads me to (of course) opposing views on the topic.
What I've noticed by doing searches this way is that I tend to find more "evidence-based" pieces and less anecdotal ones. In my mind, that is a good thing.
It is also a method that leads one to some very useful web sites (that is, ones that survive my C.R.A.P. test - Google it).
The title of this video intrigued me as I had several years ago done some research on the topic. The information you provided supported my conclusions and I was pleased to see you reference Robert Pawlis' site Garden Myths. This site, among several others, is one of my favorite sources of solid, non-anecdotal information about gardening practices. And it was one I found using my "Myth" searches.
My approach to gardening (probably because I'm cheap and lazy) is to use plenty of compost and just enough water. Four or five years ago I switched to "no-till" gardening which I thought at the beginning was just another gimmick and too good to be true. I did a two-season trial by converting a couple of my raised beds to no-till and while my results with similar crops weren't spectacular, they were at least equal to if not better than my tilled beds. That was enough for me! No more digging!
Anyway, this comment is already overly-long. I'd like to say that I recently discovered your website and have watched many of your videos. You have reliable information and advice and a wonderfully-clear way of presenting it. Many thanks for your efforts. I am now a subscriber. Cheers.
Thank you for a pleasantly thorough comment. I appreciate when other gardeners also take the time to find accurate and tested information, rather than rely on myths and misinformation. Welcome to the channel. I'll strive to continue presenting accurate knowledge.
@@GardenerScott Captain Ron's comment is exactly how I research all things google - keeps me in the scientific data and out of the land of myths. That's why I like your site. Where I live in Canada, we have acidic soil and moss want's to pop up even in our lawns. So much moss in the woodlands that it's like walking on carpet. In Europe, more peat bogs were destroyed by urban sprawl than gardening.
So you actually trust Google? You aren't aware their info and links are hugely biased? Hmm.
I'll stick to peat until I find some consistent, unbiased info. Gardener Scott and Captain Ron are maybe the beginning on this honesty (neither really can answer this question despite a lot of research) Beyond Scott and Ron, finding honesty and non-biased info to know for sure ain't gonna happen in my lifetime, I assure you.
@@thegiftlady1 Your comment got me thinking about how biased Google actually is. So, I Googled "Is Google biased" ...
@@thegiftlady1 - I don't trust google only - I know how to research and find the facts on any subject. I keep an open mind and fact check everybody.
Thanks again, Gardener Scott! I never knew all of this. You definitely make all of this easy to understand!
Thank you.
Well done! It's like watching consumer advocate John Stossel, again, well done..........
Interesting and informative video. One issue I saw omitted is that the shipping industry are heavy polluters and pump 1 billion metric tons of carbon into the atmosphere a year, accounting for 3% of greenhouse gases. It seems the main issue is just too many people. No matter what we do, we create environmental issues and there is no "Harmless" solution to may things. I am recently retired and just getting into gardening. I came across this video looking for info or Coir and seed starting mixes. Given all the information available, I am now less likely to use Coir. Since I live in zone 9B, I think I will do more direct sowing into my beds an try using cold frames to get plants started early to minimize my use of Peat. I have already started composting to supplement my beds yearly. Thanks for this video, I will have to check out some of your other videos.
Short (not perfect) answer: Which is sourced closer to you, that is the better choice.
I believe peat is 200% better , but using your own dead leaves is 600% better . God bless!
Peat moss also known as Sphagnum peat moss is a great soil amendment. I use it for seed starting and in my raised beds. Tried coco coir once and and it killed all my vegetable starts because it contains salt. I also use a lot of garden, raised bed and potting soil. I'm a peat moss user! Hate if you must! Lol
Depends on the plant you're growing. I used to watch this education TV urban horticulturist that would recommend all your plants be grown in Sphagnum moss. In fact, his entire show revolved around it.
I'm new to gardening. I did not have an opinion either way until this video. I'm leaning towards buying more peat.
Interesting. I do use Coir. The reason being is I don't have to throw it away. After each use it gets washed and treated and I can reuse it as many times as I want. I don't have to worry about sustainabilty. In that way Coir is more eco friendly.
I personally, try very hard to used manures, shredded leaves 🍁 and all the compost I can make.
I prefer peat, but use coir. Don't know what part of the state's your in, but here in the southwestern desert, coir is less than half the cost of peat.
Peat is 14 to 20 bucks for a 3 cubic foot bag. Coir is just under 6 bucks for a 2.25 cubic foot brick.
Ash works great to help neutralize peat.
That's quite a difference in price and well worth it. I'm in Colorado, closer to Canada, so that may explain it.
We need the peat bogs, use coir @@GardenerScott
Same here in Australia. Peat is become very hard to get and costs at least double that of Coir.
I love peat. It great for my blueberries and my medication. My plants love a low ph. So I added peat. I have no issues now. I just use water. I am Canadian, it’s our winters, it rejuvenates it.
That's a great use for it.
Hi there could this be use for cannabis plants? I got a 4 plants ready to be transplanted soon. For medical care I need something that will work natural and not add chemicals.
It can be used. I haven't done it so you might want to seek out other videos that have recommendations.
Gardener Scott thanks for the great video great information 👍
@@almightyjr9086 look into Grow pot cheaply, he and a few others swear by Coco coir.
I really appreciated this video. I had recently read that peat is not sustainable, and that coir was the way to go. I’m so glad to know that Canada is managing this precious resource. And, obviouslynthere are pros and cons to each.
If I understand correctly, the top layers are the living Sphagnum moss. Once it dies, it breaks down and forms the peat. Peat moss is acidic, Sphagnum moss is neutral.
Many years ago, I discovered quite by accident that Sphagnum is wonderful for rooting cuttings. I had moved all of my plants to terracotta to improve air to roots. I nestled the pots in Sphagnum and every week I dumped a bucket of water in. The moss soaked up the water, holding it for the plants to use when ready. The whole fibers had enough air between the fibers that I didn’t have any problems with root rot.
Well, then my Mother of Thousands started dropping babies. My Baby Tears draped over the pot and touched the Sphagnum. Whenever I pruned a leaf from African violets I stuck it in the moss. Everything took root. You name it, I rooted it.
I found this vastly superior to rooting in water. When you plant up a cutting that was rooted in water, there is invariably some damage done to the root hairs. The newly planted baby suffers a brief setback as it recovers. I didn’t get that when rooted in Sphagnum. I took a small clump of Sphagnum with the tiny rootball and buried it in the soil.
I’ve been away from plants now, for many years, I’m just getting started again. I’m reading and binging oh UA-cam trying to catch up on current knowledge. I’m trying to fill my apartment with living green stuff. That’s the best remedy I know for winter!
Your understanding is accurate, with a slight modification. The peat is partially decomposed because the anaerobic environment slows the process so much. Thanks for sharing your experience with Sphagnum moss. it's definitely underused by gardeners.
Here in Louisiana where we have lots of marsh that contains peat. I go to a plant and they allow me to shovel up all of their loose debris ! I incorporate it in my garden and it has worked amazingly well and grows potatoes better than I’ve ever been able to without it. It keeps the soil very porous !