I’m personally of the camp that believes speakers are the first thing to look at when putting a system together. After all, a speaker dictates what type of amplification will optimize said speakers, then a preamp that has a happy impedance match with the amp. It would seem sensible to figure out the type of source when starting out as well though too. Digital? Analog? etc…
FINALLY! Somone in the business who says the speakers are the most important link of the audio reproduction chain. I get so tired of people saying the source is most important.
I think the most important thing in speakers is having a CEO of an audio company not dodge questions which were actually asked. So few are noticing that he clearly answered a question not asked. It's bizarre how self described audiophiles and audio enthusiasts can't listen well.
This advice is spot on. Separating the mids & highs from the low frequency driver cleans up the distortion present inside the cabinet. Deal with low frequencies separately, which is more of an issue due to room dimensions.
You are right, I build speakers with a FR driver and a woofer. I put 100 mf on the FR driver and the voice clears up like you say. Also it stops the excursions on the FR driver for less Doppler effect, with the treble wobbling out with the bass excursions. And it loads up the woofer more, making the bass more "punchy".
Paul .... you are 110% correct on this one !! This First Law of Audiophiles is :- Thou shalt regard all stages as being equal ... never say which part is most important.... every stage is important but the speaker is more important than the rest
When I first got into audio in the early 80’s, I as a young uneducated man with more money than sense, visited Radford Hifi on Gloucester Road, Bristol, England. The assistant explained the virtues of the big money going on the source equipment. He made a lot of sense to my audio uneducated and inexperienced brain. I’ve broadly stuck to those basic purchasing principals as my audio journey progressed. Fast forward to my current system. It became ultimately obvious to me, through trial and error that regardless of how good your electronics are, if your speakers aren’t capable of fully resolving the signal delivered to them, you are simply won’t get the best from your system. That is why, I would now always advocate that the big money goes on speakers. Taking guidance from your dealer regarding equipment matching and synergy. That having been said. My current speakers set me back £18000! I did drive them with an amp costing £9000 and they sounded phenomenal, until, I borrowed a friends £30000 pre-amp and 2 monoblocks by the same amplifier manufacturer driving my £18000 speakers. The difference, was ‘night and day’, mind blowing! I am very happy with the sonic reproduction I get with my £18000 speakers and £9000 amp, but, believe you me, I am saving hard to get that pre-amp dual monoblock combination. All that having been said. Modern thinking is that the big money should go on acoustically treating your room. I don’t have the luxury of a dedicated listening room. My audio system has to fight for its right to be in our family living room. It is completely acoustically untreated! Whilst I’ve no doubt that acoustic room treatment could potentially substantially improve my listening pleasure, I would prefer to spend my audio budget on upgrading components and not battling with ‘she who must be obeyed’ with installing expensive treatments, which we would probably have to leave behind if we ever moved. Where as the sound system could move with us. Alternatively, I do have the option to upgrade the current Mrs to one who is more user friendly, and more tolerant of my enthusiasm for music. Seriously though, forget about what money goes where and how much? The most import thing is your enjoyment and appreciation of the music, whatever you employ to reproduce it. May I wish you all, many many happy hours of contented and fulfilling listing. Keep up your educational and entertaining videos Paul.
That's absolutely to the point. The element which transforms electric signals to your natural senses is always the most important. Be it loudspeakers or video monitors/projectors. This is the interfce between science/engineering and a human being. If this does not match the ability of your senses (hearing, seeing - and, yes, feeling (sometimes in your tummy, somtimes - forgive me - in your skin)), all of the excellence put in parts of the chain before that last element cannot reach you!
I began with the speakers, then the amp and the source. Then new speakers, a new amp, and a new source. Then new speakers and a new source and amp. Now I'm getting settled after almost 5 years of changes and it feels nice to finally arrive and let go the chase after 'better'
@@jimshaw899 Yes, the room usually is what it is. Most often the room is given and most often there are only one or few options for where to put the speakers. Yes, some times room treatment can help. It's one thing to keep in mind when buying a house. My house was chosen also because of considering space for listening.
Joris van Veen Reasonable headphones or earbuds can blow away a US$100,000 system on reproducing details with low distortion. The tough thing is to make a natural soundstage.
That is certainly an interesting and intriguing speaker. I like the looks of it. I'm just hoping off axis response is coherent and the dispersion isn't too wide. I tend to like narrow dispersion speakers so side wall reflections are subdued and sound staging can be more localized. Amt's are a bit narrow in dispersion (which I like), but 2in domes typically spray wide. As you move around the room, how do the speakers sound? Or is there a distinctive sweet spot?
@@thunderpooch They are very good at off axis reproduction. I do think the softdome mid is a part of it, but the AMT on the EVO is pretty big, which helps dispersion. I read a review that stated, at a recent audio show (Rocky mountain I think) that the reviewer had to get into the sweet spot of every speaker at the show, But when he went into Wharfedale's room (Playing EVO 4.4's) the sound met him and followed him around. They are really wonderful speakers and one of the best buys out there. Also, the port design means you can place them close to the wall with little problem.
@@stonefree1911 ok, I'll take a look. I was under the impression that the amt was large enough that dispersion would be limited, while the 2 in dome was small enough that it would have a wide dispersion. It's bizarre, but high frequencies and mid range frequencies beam in an inverse relation to driver size.
Oh yes , aftet 50 years hifi melomany i agree totaly , i get high end results with a small cheap amp few watts with high efficient vitavox s3 , beuma amt...the ear is most sensitif from around 600 to 8000 hz....and its there that we hear the most infinite disharmonies and distortions and phase issues, great talk dear, thanks a lot
To a question not asked. The question asked is: what's important in a speaker. Phase, time alignment, diffraction, driver alignment, lobing, sound staging, imaging, clarity, distortion, frequency response, decay, dispersion, tone, materials, box shape, box size, impedance, efficiency, and the crossover should have been mentioned. But none of those were. Paul needs to do a do over.
Awesome stuff Paul!! Ribbons are the most honest, good domes can be more captivating, but here we are talking taste and entertainment rather than Hifi, so I really do agree. But just saying, the foot-tapping search people can get bored without all the good tasting distortion.
Paul is absolutely right. Speakers have by far the greatest impact on sound. And in the speakers the x-over and cabinet is the biggest culprits. Relatively cheap drivers can sound wonderful if they are set up right. Ribbon drivers has the problem of being of a completely different in nature and material then the other drivers often. And because of that they stand out. Sometimes it sounds good initially, but anything that “sticks out” in the sound of a speaker is wrong.
Emit tweeters, and cmmd woofers. There's definitely a reason why Arnie took the emit-r with him when he went to genesis. If you have an ear for music get a used pair of emit tweeters as long as you cross them at 3khz or above they're the best I've ever heard. Also the square diaphragm models can easily be rebuilt if blown.
4khz is a crazy high crossover point to a tweeter. That's just shy of the highest key on a piano. I want that last octave on a piano, maybe even the last 2, sent to the tweeter. Vocals and speech will be cleaned up. And you'll appreciate the speed and attack of the tweeter over a midrange for such frequencies.
@Jingle Nuts Most ribbons do well with a 3.5khz crossover. That's why I typically only like ribbons for line arrays. An AMT or dome can be crossed lower which is music to my ears. A tweeter crossed at 4khz pretty much just sits there and adds air and sibilance. I believe in tweeters. I think they deserve more responsibility ;)
@@thunderpooch i agree i wasn't implying that the mid-range speaker should go up to 4K i personally don't like it to crossover below 2k as it effects the upper registry of the human voice. anything over 2k is fine because the crossover is never perfect at the crossover point. But the beauty is in that midrange of 200-4k hz.
An old formula said to spend one third of your budget on the speakers, one third on the turntable and cartridge (I did say it's an old formula), and one third on the amplifier. I think spending more on the speakers, maybe up to half, is a better idea. Then, when you upgrade any other part of the system, the speakers should be good enough to reveal the difference. If you upgrade the speakers, you should Always be able to hear more detail than before. And I agree with Paul that the midrange and tweeter are more important than the woofer.
It also depends on your taste music as well. I like a lot of underground dance music so the sub bass range is absolutely important to me anyways. It can be tricky to do really low frequencies properly at home though without some planning and modifications...even getting or designing the right subwoofer is a chore of it's own whereas on a good PA soundsystem and a large space it's a lot easier to get the sub bass right without it being boomy. If you ever get a chance to experience a great DJ with a Funktion One sound system in a place with great accoustics it's a magical experience. That said if I was at a like jazz concert another genre I like and everything was tuned like a dance club it would be awful and it would feel out of places. Coltranes soprano saxophone is absolutely timeless and angelic to the ears. So it's a tough decision for me and because of my wide varying tastes in music I need a system (and I do!) that does the whole range of frequency well no compromises!
Agree completely. Your speaker will most strongly please you or displease you (for ~ the same price). *By comparison,* amps and preamps and DAC's have small differences. In my house, I have four sound systems (1 is a video setup). Of those four, one is borderline unlistenable -- and it is the most costly, in the largest room, with the most costly preamp/amp/DAC/TT/CD sources, and has a big reputation with the reviewers. And it is the tweeters I just can't get used to; and, after a year, I won't. Speakers are personal choices. Wildly different.
Just the speaker (because we know the room is key, and the source and gear are the sound...), I'm gonna go with the cabinet as A#1, if your cabinet sucks you're doomed forever. Then one must decide on the driver type and material/type of sound you want as #2 concern. If you're talking about buying a large speaker company speaker there is a distinct line with commodity parts on one side and boutique/craft/engineering marvels of science on the other, so as a consumer you should be aware of that line and it's meaning.
mid range and tweeter right, you're prefer to audiophile crowd. if you listen to hip-hop/rap, you have to get the bass right. EXOcontralto Channel. if you intend to design speaker, you have full spectrum.
1st, clarity and purity (without being fatiguing). Dispersion pattern (wide vs narrow to integrate with your room), 2nd. Off axis response, also tied for 2nd. 3rd, very clean bass down to 60 to 70 hz (the sub should really do the rest). 4th, your personal decay of note preference of the tweeter (think amt vs dome and silk vs metal, etc). 5th make sure imaging and sound stage is to your liking. If points 1st thru 2nd are correct, it most likely will be. Flat frequency response, largely forget about it. Most everyone prefers some heft between 60 hz to 120hz. An attenuated 2khz to 4khz range by a few decibels is also quite pleasant. But don't get a speaker which starts rolling off a lot starting at 8khz going all the way to 20khz. These frequencies aren't really fatiguing. They give music and movies a sense of immediacy and atmosphere. It's called air for a reason. This is a very rough guide line. And do pay attention to phase and distortion graphs and off axis coherence more so than just frequency response alone.
I don’t care what anyone says. Always always speakers first. I have a world class system with relatively little invested. Mainly because I bought world renowned speakers first and have slowly but steadily built up my sources secondly. Now through mainly the used market and a couple of new purchases I’ve put together a system that even the pickiest of listeners would more than likely appreciate upon actually hearing the system. Upgrading speakers over time has always more than less seemed silly to me once you start getting into upper level stuff. Speakers should be a lifetime investment. Unless you’re a flipper of course. I have seen people flip their way up the ranks with gear in general which can be a reasonable approach towards obtaining an endgame system if you’re on a really limited budget. Still if you have a decent amount to invest all at once my recommendation is always buy the baddest speakers you can afford and work on the rest over time
Hey paul, watched a lot of video's. I am now a proud owner of a FPGA dac. sadly it's not a Direct stream. But I found out that my Dac has somewhat 6500 logical switches. Can you explain what more logical switches will do and how much are we profiting when we double the logical switches?
4 things: 1. drivers, 2. cabinet shape/no cabinet, 3. dispersion, 4. freq range. Lets quickly compare the creme dela creme of speakers: Nola has great drivers and freq range. dispersion is 2nd to best which is omni. Bass cabinet could be better. Raidho, Borresen, VonSchweikert and Gryphon: All great but dispersion is too narrow, sweetspot also narrow. MBL, German Physiks: dispersion is omni, range is good, but the membranes are heavy... Kyron Audio: no cabinet, range is wide, drivers are top of the line, just midrange dispersion is not omni. Some may prefer ribbon tweeter vs ring radiator Magnepan, Quad, Alsyvox: except alsyvox bass extension is not as amazing comparing to others. Drivers: these are the very best. Horns: dispersion.......... Voxativ: great drivers, but narrow sweetspot. Their 9.87 system bass section is 100/100. Enter Zeta Zero Orbitals, the designer addressed all those aspects
Most important thing I find about a speaker is, that it is connected to an amplifier. If Someone gives a free set of speakers, my advise is, like a horse. Never look the champion gift horse in the mouth, or it may bite you. If you could only still ask Hal Blaine about speakers. He use to make his sound great with two sticks.
Everything is important in a speaker! If the crossover filter is not made properly, they will not help no matter how good the speakers you put in the box are! Analog crossover inside the box is in a way passive analog EQ.
The best speaker in the world in a bad sounding room (acoustically), it's going to sound bad, in an average sounding room, it's going to sound average, in a good sounding room it will sound good, and in an excellent sounding room it will sound excellent, if you have a average sounding room, spending $10,000 or even $20,000 on a front end, or anywhere else in that matter it's not going to make a difference, you still going to have an average sounding system, I think spending money on your system according on how good your room sounds is the best way to go.
While what you said is generally true many people today use DSP (digital signal processing) to help compensate for the room . A good one can make a bad room sound decent and a decent room sound good and so on. While purists will shun such devices many people employ them and are quite satisfied with the result. Also some speaker designs can do well in a bad reflective room such as the Ohm Walsh 2000's , such a room helps them deliver an exceedingly wide and deep sound stage.
@@leekumiega9268 Those "purists" gladly run their 70dB dynamic range vinyl playback through a 40dB RIAA filter and complex 24dB passive cross-over filters while they are allergic to a slight DSP EQ finetuning optimizing the audio a few dB when playing a master 192kHz 24 bit FLAC file. I call it ignorance.
If you have a bad source component you will hear it through your your speakers if they are revealing enough. In any case why would you spend say 10k on speakers and put a 200 dollar receiver in the chain for example. It's all about balance; get some decent speakers and then put some decent electronics on the front end so you can get the most from your speakers.
IMHO, whenever you change the form of energy, say mechanical to electrical or electrical to mechanical, has the largest possibility of messing up or adding distortion or adding elements not part of the original. Personally I’d say speakers most important
I don't think you've answered the 'intended' question.. I think the point of the question was about speaker parts as in physical speaker parts, not parts of the audio spectrum.
I have a Cabasse subwoofer. I use it as a turntable stand. But.. you can't have a turntable atop of a subwoofer. I know. The Cabasse subwoofer is trash. It's not connected. I don't use it. Maybe I could sell it. But not for much. And it would be a hassle.
I learned the hard way about matching speakers to your need. I found you have few options. More small speakers or using less speakers by using bigger speakers with smaller magnets covering various ranges using less power output for big sound. You need good tweeters also. I don't want to open the full can of worms people run into about stereo's and speakers, doesn't help matters. Thank you for helping guide people in a positive direct.
The room treatment is very important - but without a good system is everything nothing. The budget, has in my point of view, divided in this: 40% speakers 20% amplifier 20% (one!) source - if you want more you have to spend 20% for each more 10% cables, power 10% room treatment It's just a rough guideline that has helped me well with my system
No the chain analogy is faulty. Doesn’t matter whether your chain links are made of dental floss or steel if someone swapped your cow with a mouse. Speakers are by far the hardest thing (economically) to build well. Electronics is relatively cheap by comparison.
Yup... once you get a speaker with great ribbons it's hard to go back to standard drivers. After that every piece of equipment counts but you'll know that you've got an excellent speaker to reproduce whatever you can hand it.
I wasnt a believer in source mattering all that much until I finally got an outboard DAC, and boy that kool aid went down quick! Im surprised you didnt mention anything about speaker sensitivity being a factor, I find any loudspeaker with a min 90db sensitivity rating to be very satisfying, regardless of driver types, etc. Thats just me
For me everything is important from the speakers to sources ,cables, hi fi rack and so on if some part of the chain is weak all your system sound quality might colupsed.
I got the impression what you were saying was the individual parts of the speak that would be the drivers. A soft dome mid-range is always preferred I don't think you can get it with ribbons
The SOURCE is the weakest link in most peoples systems, almost without exception. But yeah, still the speaker is the last part delivering the sound. Most people in the world could get a standard 50-200k usd speaker sound, for only around 10-30k, if they just had full control over the SOURCE signal. Of all the thousands of setups I have heard, I only know of 1 guy that has full control over the SOURCE signal. That is why so many people are still buying crazy expensive speakers, simply to compensate for bad SOURCE signal. I have heard a crap monitor audio 10k usd speaker outperform Wilson Audio and Mcintosh speakers for around 100k - 2mil dollars. Just because there was full control over the SOURCE, where as the Wilsen and Mcintosh did not have full control over the SOURCE signal. That is how important the SOURCE signal is. Most people will though never realize this, because it is not yet a product that exists, the only thing that comes close to it is the most expensive cdp/DAC integrated from Audio Note. As soon as the SOURCE signal is close to perfect, you can then transform normal gear into gear that usually costs much more. Having heard the very best in the world. I think it is a fair guess to say that, AMPs have reached a potential of about 50-80% of what is ever going to be possible, LP gear around 90%, CD around 75%, but that our streamer that we buy in the stores, only have reached about 15% of what is possible. And I think it is going to take at least 30 years before streamers reach maybe 50% of their top potential. That is how low the streamer standard is. It is still in infant stage. And the CD, LP, DAC standard that most people listen to is only around 5%. So look forward to the future!
Compare it to a woman with a lovely voice that isn't really gifted with a high vocabulary or knowledge of things that people like to talk about, to a genius woman with a shrill voice that is engaging and knows how to make her point with subtlety and finesse. If you had to choose it would be very frustrating indeed. Especially if they were both beautiful. The one with the beautiful voice could be taught things, which is like upgrading the source. Trying to fix the voice of the genius is fundamentally more difficult than simply learning how to converse. It's "genetic" so-to-speak, baked in to the design of her voice box, larynx and nasal cavity. Those with enough money never need to decide so the industry caters to their every whim while swinging from their hairy bean bag. Meanwhile holding the review community hostage with shady agreements and free swag in exchange for glowing reviews of even mediocre products. There is no substitute for getting to know plenty of women and having many conversations with them before proposing to any one of them! Find listening rooms. Find audio clubs. The old speakers and the old receivers still have MUCH to offer in the way of quality source and sound. Of course eBay used to be a great place to find a bargain. Now it's THE World Marketplace. Still some deals out there, but BUYER BEWARE!
Well, that was weird. Is there a shrill larynx anamoly plaguing your spouse, or present in your family tree? Yikes, who knew searching for a significant other was like searching for speakers. :) Maybe just you. I can just see the classified ads of people heeding your advice. "Looking for pleasant sound female who can learn a thing or two." Bwahahahaha
While that is certainly true for some , to many others it IS about the sound. Did you ever think that these outrageous looking speakers actually sound as good as they look.
Doesnt make sense to ask Paul this question. Hes not a speaker designer. He specializes in front end equipment. Hes never created a speaker in his life.
PS audio can make excellent audiophile ACTIVE speakers because they now have the competencies to combine optimal fine tuned high quality electronics and speaker technology into even better sounding products! Beat the likes of KEF LS50W with something much better!
What do you mean , he addressed the "and why not something else" first then proceeded to talk about the most important part of a speakers sound. Maybe you should listen to the whole thing again.
I’m personally of the camp that believes speakers are the first thing to look at when putting a system together. After all, a speaker dictates what type of amplification will optimize said speakers, then a preamp that has a happy impedance match with the amp. It would seem sensible to figure out the type of source when starting out as well though too. Digital? Analog? etc…
FINALLY! Somone in the business who says the speakers are the most important link of the audio reproduction chain. I get so tired of people saying the source is most important.
I agree! The perfect source doesn't mean squat if you can't hear the reproduction!
Nice confirmation bias you got there 😜
I think the most important thing in speakers is having a CEO of an audio company not dodge questions which were actually asked.
So few are noticing that he clearly answered a question not asked. It's bizarre how self described audiophiles and audio enthusiasts can't listen well.
This advice is spot on.
Separating the mids & highs from the low frequency driver cleans up the distortion present inside the cabinet. Deal with low frequencies separately, which is more of an issue due to room dimensions.
You are right, I build speakers with a FR driver and a woofer. I put 100 mf on the FR driver and the voice clears up like you say. Also it stops the excursions on the FR driver for less Doppler effect, with the treble wobbling out with the bass excursions. And it loads up the woofer more, making the bass more "punchy".
Paul .... you are 110% correct on this one !!
This First Law of Audiophiles is :- Thou shalt regard all stages as being equal ... never say which part is most important.... every stage is important but the speaker is more important than the rest
JBL waterproof Bluetooth ear buds and jump on the back of my board and go!
When I first got into audio in the early 80’s, I as a young uneducated man with more money than sense, visited Radford Hifi on Gloucester Road, Bristol, England. The assistant explained the virtues of the big money going on the source equipment. He made a lot of sense to my audio uneducated and inexperienced brain. I’ve broadly stuck to those basic purchasing principals as my audio journey progressed.
Fast forward to my current system. It became ultimately obvious to me, through trial and error that regardless of how good your electronics are, if your speakers aren’t capable of fully resolving the signal delivered to them, you are simply won’t get the best from your system. That is why, I would now always advocate that the big money goes on speakers. Taking guidance from your dealer regarding equipment matching and synergy. That having been said. My current speakers set me back £18000! I did drive them with an amp costing £9000 and they sounded phenomenal, until, I borrowed a friends £30000 pre-amp and 2 monoblocks by the same amplifier manufacturer driving my £18000 speakers. The difference, was ‘night and day’, mind blowing! I am very happy with the sonic reproduction I get with my £18000 speakers and £9000 amp, but, believe you me, I am saving hard to get that pre-amp dual monoblock combination.
All that having been said. Modern thinking is that the big money should go on acoustically treating your room. I don’t have the luxury of a dedicated listening room. My audio system has to fight for its right to be in our family living room. It is completely acoustically untreated! Whilst I’ve no doubt that acoustic room treatment could potentially substantially improve my listening pleasure, I would prefer to spend my audio budget on upgrading components and not battling with ‘she who must be obeyed’ with installing expensive treatments, which we would probably have to leave behind if we ever moved. Where as the sound system could move with us. Alternatively, I do have the option to upgrade the current Mrs to one who is more user friendly, and more tolerant of my enthusiasm for music.
Seriously though, forget about what money goes where and how much? The most import thing is your enjoyment and appreciation of the music, whatever you employ to reproduce it.
May I wish you all, many many happy hours of contented and fulfilling listing.
Keep up your educational and entertaining videos Paul.
That's absolutely to the point. The element which transforms electric signals to your natural senses is always the most important. Be it loudspeakers or video monitors/projectors. This is the interfce between science/engineering and a human being. If this does not match the ability of your senses (hearing, seeing - and, yes, feeling (sometimes in your tummy, somtimes - forgive me - in your skin)), all of the excellence put in parts of the chain before that last element cannot reach you!
I began with the speakers, then the amp and the source. Then new speakers, a new amp, and a new source. Then new speakers and a new source and amp. Now I'm getting settled after almost 5 years of changes and it feels nice to finally arrive and let go the chase after 'better'
For me, the most important element seems to be the room!
Yes people often ignore the room because it's not a component that they can buy and unbox, which is the most exciting part for an audiophile.
And changing out a room makes PSAudio gear seem cheap.
@@jimshaw899 Yes, the room usually is what it is. Most often the room is given and most often there are only one or few options for where to put the speakers. Yes, some times room treatment can help. It's one thing to keep in mind when buying a house. My house was chosen also because of considering space for listening.
I disagree, easy fix 🎧
My rule of thumb the worst room can't sound as bad as the best headphones 😉
Joris van Veen Reasonable headphones or earbuds can blow away a US$100,000 system on reproducing details with low distortion. The tough thing is to make a natural soundstage.
Perfect answer. 👍🏻I‘m a Speakerbuilder from Switzerland .
Paul, your "upper range" description sounds just like my Wharfedale EVO 4.2's. 2" soft-dome midrange paired with a large AMT tweeter. Heavenly.
I own a pair of backes & Mueller - also with AMT - absolut heavenly. They are running from 1000Hz to 20khz
That is certainly an interesting and intriguing speaker.
I like the looks of it. I'm just hoping off axis response is coherent and the dispersion isn't too wide.
I tend to like narrow dispersion speakers so side wall reflections are subdued and sound staging can be more localized.
Amt's are a bit narrow in dispersion (which I like), but 2in domes typically spray wide.
As you move around the room, how do the speakers sound? Or is there a distinctive sweet spot?
@@thunderpooch They are very good at off axis reproduction. I do think the softdome mid is a part of it, but the AMT on the EVO is pretty big, which helps dispersion. I read a review that stated, at a recent audio show (Rocky mountain I think) that the reviewer had to get into the sweet spot of every speaker at the show, But when he went into Wharfedale's room (Playing EVO 4.4's) the sound met him and followed him around. They are really wonderful speakers and one of the best buys out there. Also, the port design means you can place them close to the wall with little problem.
@@stonefree1911 ok, I'll take a look.
I was under the impression that the amt was large enough that dispersion would be limited, while the 2 in dome was small enough that it would have a wide dispersion.
It's bizarre, but high frequencies and mid range frequencies beam in an inverse relation to driver size.
Make so much sense! Thank YOU Paul!!
Oh yes , aftet 50 years hifi melomany i agree totaly , i get high end results with a small cheap amp few watts with high efficient vitavox s3 , beuma amt...the ear is most sensitif from around 600 to 8000 hz....and its there that we hear the most infinite disharmonies and distortions and phase issues, great talk dear, thanks a lot
Well answered. First time I have heard such a simple common sense position on this topic. I did it all backwards, but it worked out in the end.
That is an honest and straight forward answer.
To a question not asked.
The question asked is: what's important in a speaker.
Phase, time alignment, diffraction, driver alignment, lobing, sound staging, imaging, clarity, distortion, frequency response, decay, dispersion, tone, materials, box shape, box size, impedance, efficiency, and the crossover should have been mentioned.
But none of those were.
Paul needs to do a do over.
Great viewpoint-rockin' the Descendents from Fort Collins in the background poster too!
Awesome stuff Paul!! Ribbons are the most honest, good domes can be more captivating, but here we are talking taste and entertainment rather than Hifi, so I really do agree. But just saying, the foot-tapping search people can get bored without all the good tasting distortion.
Midrange is God, king, ruler over all.
Paul is absolutely right. Speakers have by far the greatest impact on sound.
And in the speakers the x-over and cabinet is the biggest culprits.
Relatively cheap drivers can sound wonderful if they are set up right.
Ribbon drivers has the problem of being of a completely different in nature and material then the other drivers often. And because of that they stand out. Sometimes it sounds good initially, but anything that “sticks out” in the sound of a speaker is wrong.
Emit tweeters, and cmmd woofers. There's definitely a reason why Arnie took the emit-r with him when he went to genesis. If you have an ear for music get a used pair of emit tweeters as long as you cross them at 3khz or above they're the best I've ever heard. Also the square diaphragm models can easily be rebuilt if blown.
Very well said and I fully agree.
200-4K Hz. it's all about that midrange and crossover to the tweeter. if you can look for a well designed 3 way.
4khz is a crazy high crossover point to a tweeter.
That's just shy of the highest key on a piano. I want that last octave on a piano, maybe even the last 2, sent to the tweeter. Vocals and speech will be cleaned up. And you'll appreciate the speed and attack of the tweeter over a midrange for such frequencies.
@Jingle Nuts Most ribbons do well with a 3.5khz crossover. That's why I typically only like ribbons for line arrays.
An AMT or dome can be crossed lower which is music to my ears.
A tweeter crossed at 4khz pretty much just sits there and adds air and sibilance. I believe in tweeters. I think they deserve more responsibility ;)
@@thunderpooch i agree i wasn't implying that the mid-range speaker should go up to 4K i personally don't like it to crossover below 2k as it effects the upper registry of the human voice. anything over 2k is fine because the crossover is never perfect at the crossover point. But the beauty is in that midrange of 200-4k hz.
@@gtric1466 ah, ok, got ya :)
For me, the most important aspects of a speaker are their charisma, use of semantics, and their overall attitude about public speaking.
LOL We have a comedian here.
Crossover is also very important in my understanding
An old formula said to spend one third of your budget on the speakers,
one third on the turntable and cartridge (I did say it's an old formula),
and one third on the amplifier.
I think spending more on the speakers, maybe up to half, is a better idea.
Then, when you upgrade any other part of the system,
the speakers should be good enough to reveal the difference.
If you upgrade the speakers, you should Always be able to hear more detail than before.
And I agree with Paul that the midrange and tweeter are more important than the woofer.
A well designed crossover using good parts.
Sounds right to me.
Which cone materials are best for woofers, particularly where there is no separate mid range driver?
I find the woven fiber style woofers to be most satisfactory to me. Although I do see Hemp, yes hemp becoming a popular future cone material!
It also depends on your taste music as well. I like a lot of underground dance music so the sub bass range is absolutely important to me anyways. It can be tricky to do really low frequencies properly at home though without some planning and modifications...even getting or designing the right subwoofer is a chore of it's own whereas on a good PA soundsystem and a large space it's a lot easier to get the sub bass right without it being boomy. If you ever get a chance to experience a great DJ with a Funktion One sound system in a place with great accoustics it's a magical experience.
That said if I was at a like jazz concert another genre I like and everything was tuned like a dance club it would be awful and it would feel out of places. Coltranes soprano saxophone is absolutely timeless and angelic to the ears.
So it's a tough decision for me and because of my wide varying tastes in music I need a system (and I do!) that does the whole range of frequency well no compromises!
Yes you would like cardioid subwoofers 6 -8 order
thanks Paul! King regards from Germany!
Man I love the passion!
YUO ARE 100% PERCENT RIGHT. THANK YOU
Agree completely. Your speaker will most strongly please you or displease you (for ~ the same price). *By comparison,* amps and preamps and DAC's have small differences. In my house, I have four sound systems (1 is a video setup). Of those four, one is borderline unlistenable -- and it is the most costly, in the largest room, with the most costly preamp/amp/DAC/TT/CD sources, and has a big reputation with the reviewers. And it is the tweeters I just can't get used to; and, after a year, I won't.
Speakers are personal choices. Wildly different.
So when are the ps audio speakers coming out then????
don't say corona-virus slow it down
good speakers are the hardest to make.(compared to electronics)
no problem with quality treble I pump 500 watts per bose 901.
Are you talking about Legacy Speakers? Ribbon tweeters and mids.
A great set of speakers will make most any system no matter how cheap.
how about getting the mid-base right?
that was according Arnie Nudell
Except for those of us seniors with steeply rolled off high frequency hearing. Then bass and midrange more important.
Just the speaker (because we know the room is key, and the source and gear are the sound...), I'm gonna go with the cabinet as A#1, if your cabinet sucks you're doomed forever. Then one must decide on the driver type and material/type of sound you want as #2 concern. If you're talking about buying a large speaker company speaker there is a distinct line with commodity parts on one side and boutique/craft/engineering marvels of science on the other, so as a consumer you should be aware of that line and it's meaning.
Smart Mr. Paul
mid range and tweeter right, you're prefer to audiophile crowd. if you listen to hip-hop/rap, you have to get the bass right. EXOcontralto Channel. if you intend to design speaker, you have full spectrum.
1st, clarity and purity (without being fatiguing). Dispersion pattern (wide vs narrow to integrate with your room), 2nd. Off axis response, also tied for 2nd. 3rd, very clean bass down to 60 to 70 hz (the sub should really do the rest). 4th, your personal decay of note preference of the tweeter (think amt vs dome and silk vs metal, etc). 5th make sure imaging and sound stage is to your liking. If points 1st thru 2nd are correct, it most likely will be.
Flat frequency response, largely forget about it. Most everyone prefers some heft between 60 hz to 120hz.
An attenuated 2khz to 4khz range by a few decibels is also quite pleasant. But don't get a speaker which starts rolling off a lot starting at 8khz going all the way to 20khz. These frequencies aren't really fatiguing. They give music and movies a sense of immediacy and atmosphere. It's called air for a reason.
This is a very rough guide line. And do pay attention to phase and distortion graphs and off axis coherence more so than just frequency response alone.
And I do agree with you.
My rough guide was intended to help a general audience if they came across it.
Nice content
Good answer.
In the mid 1970's I thought it was the weed. Bad highs kill good audio!
I don’t care what anyone says. Always always speakers first. I have a world class system with relatively little invested. Mainly because I bought world renowned speakers first and have slowly but steadily built up my sources secondly. Now through mainly the used market and a couple of new purchases I’ve put together a system that even the pickiest of listeners would more than likely appreciate upon actually hearing the system. Upgrading speakers over time has always more than less seemed silly to me once you start getting into upper level stuff. Speakers should be a lifetime investment. Unless you’re a flipper of course. I have seen people flip their way up the ranks with gear in general which can be a reasonable approach towards obtaining an endgame system if you’re on a really limited budget. Still if you have a decent amount to invest all at once my recommendation is always buy the baddest speakers you can afford and work on the rest over time
Hey paul, watched a lot of video's. I am now a proud owner of a FPGA dac. sadly it's not a Direct stream. But I found out that my Dac has somewhat 6500 logical switches. Can you explain what more logical switches will do and how much are we profiting when we double the logical switches?
Most probably its 65K or million gates aka transistors
Good morning from Singapore Paul
That is what I am doing with my money into midrange and tweeter. That is why I had ls3/5a
4 things: 1. drivers, 2. cabinet shape/no cabinet, 3. dispersion, 4. freq range. Lets quickly compare the creme dela creme of speakers:
Nola has great drivers and freq range. dispersion is 2nd to best which is omni. Bass cabinet could be better.
Raidho, Borresen, VonSchweikert and Gryphon: All great but dispersion is too narrow, sweetspot also narrow.
MBL, German Physiks: dispersion is omni, range is good, but the membranes are heavy...
Kyron Audio: no cabinet, range is wide, drivers are top of the line, just midrange dispersion is not omni. Some may prefer ribbon tweeter vs ring radiator
Magnepan, Quad, Alsyvox: except alsyvox bass extension is not as amazing comparing to others. Drivers: these are the very best.
Horns: dispersion..........
Voxativ: great drivers, but narrow sweetspot. Their 9.87 system bass section is 100/100.
Enter Zeta Zero Orbitals, the designer addressed all those aspects
ETA on the guide?
I believe the fasteners are the most important parts of a speaker. If they look like they came from a bin at Home Depot, you're not spending enough.
Well said!!
Most important thing I find about a speaker is, that it is connected to an amplifier.
If Someone gives a free set of speakers, my advise is, like a horse. Never look the champion gift horse in the mouth, or it may bite you.
If you could only still ask Hal Blaine about speakers. He use to make his sound great with two sticks.
Everything is important in a speaker!
If the crossover filter is not made properly, they will not help no matter how good the speakers you put in the box are!
Analog crossover inside the box is in a way passive analog EQ.
The best speaker in the world in a bad sounding room (acoustically), it's going to sound bad, in an average sounding room, it's going to sound average, in a good sounding room it will sound good, and in an excellent sounding room it will sound excellent, if you have a average sounding room, spending $10,000 or even $20,000 on a front end, or anywhere else in that matter it's not going to make a difference, you still going to have an average sounding system, I think spending money on your system according on how good your room sounds is the best way to go.
While what you said is generally true many people today use DSP (digital signal processing) to help compensate for the room . A good one can make a bad room sound decent and a decent room sound good and so on. While purists will shun such devices many people employ them and are quite satisfied with the result. Also some speaker designs can do well in a bad reflective room such as the Ohm Walsh 2000's , such a room helps them deliver an exceedingly wide and deep sound stage.
@@leekumiega9268 Those "purists" gladly run their 70dB dynamic range vinyl playback through a 40dB RIAA filter and complex 24dB passive cross-over filters while they are allergic to a slight DSP EQ finetuning optimizing the audio a few dB when playing a master 192kHz 24 bit FLAC file. I call it ignorance.
@@ThinkingBetter Good point.
...Or just focus on the weakest link.
Speakers are the most important part of a hifi system! You will notice a bad speaker more than you notice a bad CD player or preamplifier!
If you have a bad source component you will hear it through your your speakers if they are revealing enough. In any case why would you spend say 10k on speakers and put a 200 dollar receiver in the chain for example. It's all about balance; get some decent speakers and then put some decent electronics on the front end so you can get the most from your speakers.
IMHO, whenever you change the form of energy, say mechanical to electrical or electrical to mechanical, has the largest possibility of messing up or adding distortion or adding elements not part of the original. Personally I’d say speakers most important
I don't think you've answered the 'intended' question.. I think the point of the question was about speaker parts as in physical speaker parts, not parts of the audio spectrum.
@Fat Rat Whoah! is this the first time that we agree on something? 😜
I would advise working backwards. So order of importance in my set up is:
1. Speakers
2. Power Amp
3. Integrated Amp
4. Source
Yes, maybe for digital music setups, but for vinyl setups: 1. Speakers, 2. Cartridge, 3. Turntable, 4. Phono/preamp, 5. Power amp, 6. Cables
I have a Cabasse subwoofer. I use it as a turntable stand. But.. you can't have a turntable atop of a subwoofer. I know. The Cabasse subwoofer is trash. It's not connected. I don't use it. Maybe I could sell it. But not for much. And it would be a hassle.
I learned the hard way about matching speakers to your need. I found you have few options. More small speakers or using less speakers by using bigger speakers with smaller magnets covering various ranges using less power output for big sound. You need good tweeters also. I don't want to open the full can of worms people run into about stereo's and speakers, doesn't help matters. Thank you for helping guide people in a positive direct.
making them, and shipping them :)
Probably the stuff *INSIDE* the speaker, but just a guess.
@Fat Rat everyone with a functioning brain did.
The uncritical fan boys have been exposed.
Source $500+, Speakers 1,000+ ✌
The room treatment is very important - but without a good system is everything nothing.
The budget, has in my point of view, divided in this:
40% speakers
20% amplifier
20% (one!) source - if you want more you have to spend 20% for each more
10% cables, power
10% room treatment
It's just a rough guideline that has helped me well with my system
The best answer: the weakest link in your system determines the quality.
No the chain analogy is faulty.
Doesn’t matter whether your chain links are made of dental floss or steel if someone swapped your cow with a mouse.
Speakers are by far the hardest thing (economically) to build well.
Electronics is relatively cheap by comparison.
Yup... once you get a speaker with great ribbons it's hard to go back to standard drivers. After that every piece of equipment counts but you'll know that you've got an excellent speaker to reproduce whatever you can hand it.
Cables. Of course.... I have 1000 dollar cables for a 150 dollar amp and 100 dollar speakers. Sounds wonderful.
Why not?!? It's a bit unusual.
Its price tag. I find more expensive systems sound better.
And don't forget the $20K speaker wires, too.
Do you like car audio? does your car have anything aftermarket in it?
I wasnt a believer in source mattering all that much until I finally got an outboard DAC, and boy that kool aid went down quick! Im surprised you didnt mention anything about speaker sensitivity being a factor, I find any loudspeaker with a min 90db sensitivity rating to be very satisfying, regardless of driver types, etc. Thats just me
He mentioned that they vary by plus or minus 3 db or more. At least that's what I thought he was pointing out was their sensitivity.
I asked my wife that, and she said "Nothing. They are an eyesore". I now sleep in the guest room with my 2-channel system.
For me everything is important from the speakers to sources ,cables, hi fi rack and so on if some part of the chain is weak all your system sound quality might colupsed.
DEVIALET ARE THE BEST SPEAKERS, PERIOD.
I think the op asked what material the speaker is made of, those kinda things, not what type of speaker, like mids or highs
Sherloid Bai Wel with the ribbons you don’t have many choices!
BOSE 901 all midrange speakers that do it all, want more bass add a subwoofer or two.
I got the impression what you were saying was the individual parts of the speak that would be the drivers. A soft dome mid-range is always preferred I don't think you can get it with ribbons
The SOURCE is the weakest link in most peoples systems, almost without exception. But yeah, still the speaker is the last part delivering the sound.
Most people in the world could get a standard 50-200k usd speaker sound, for only around 10-30k, if they just had full control over the SOURCE signal. Of all the thousands of setups I have heard, I only know of 1 guy that has full control over the SOURCE signal. That is why so many people are still buying crazy expensive speakers, simply to compensate for bad SOURCE signal. I have heard a crap monitor audio 10k usd speaker outperform Wilson Audio and Mcintosh speakers for around 100k - 2mil dollars. Just because there was full control over the SOURCE, where as the Wilsen and Mcintosh did not have full control over the SOURCE signal. That is how important the SOURCE signal is. Most people will though never realize this, because it is not yet a product that exists, the only thing that comes close to it is the most expensive cdp/DAC integrated from Audio Note. As soon as the SOURCE signal is close to perfect, you can then transform normal gear into gear that usually costs much more. Having heard the very best in the world. I think it is a fair guess to say that, AMPs have reached a potential of about 50-80% of what is ever going to be possible, LP gear around 90%, CD around 75%, but that our streamer that we buy in the stores, only have reached about 15% of what is possible. And I think it is going to take at least 30 years before streamers reach maybe 50% of their top potential. That is how low the streamer standard is. It is still in infant stage. And the CD, LP, DAC standard that most people listen to is only around 5%. So look forward to the future!
What is important in a speaker?
Just Speak Up!!!
@Fat Rat Yay !!!!
Its true.. midrange is crap ... that's why whole experience is crap...
Compare it to a woman with a lovely voice that isn't really gifted with a high vocabulary or knowledge of things that people like to talk about, to a genius woman with a shrill voice that is engaging and knows how to make her point with subtlety and finesse. If you had to choose it would be very frustrating indeed. Especially if they were both beautiful. The one with the beautiful voice could be taught things, which is like upgrading the source. Trying to fix the voice of the genius is fundamentally more difficult than simply learning how to converse. It's "genetic" so-to-speak, baked in to the design of her voice box, larynx and nasal cavity.
Those with enough money never need to decide so the industry caters to their every whim while swinging from their hairy bean bag. Meanwhile holding the review community hostage with shady agreements and free swag in exchange for glowing reviews of even mediocre products.
There is no substitute for getting to know plenty of women and having many conversations with them before proposing to any one of them! Find listening rooms. Find audio clubs. The old speakers and the old receivers still have MUCH to offer in the way of quality source and sound. Of course eBay used to be a great place to find a bargain. Now it's THE World Marketplace. Still some deals out there, but BUYER BEWARE!
Well, that was weird.
Is there a shrill larynx anamoly plaguing your spouse, or present in your family tree?
Yikes, who knew searching for a significant other was like searching for speakers. :) Maybe just you.
I can just see the classified ads of people heeding your advice. "Looking for pleasant sound female who can learn a thing or two." Bwahahahaha
Sauce is important to spaghetti
Your system is as good as it’s weakest link.
Paul made a good point that an inexpensive source can sound quite good these days compared to speakers , which makes them the weakest link .
Audiovector speakers 😎
Absolutely 🇩🇰👌🏻
the looooks the looooks...most audiophiles buy expensive cool big speakers for looks and show off only.
While that is certainly true for some , to many others it IS about the sound. Did you ever think that these outrageous looking speakers actually sound as good as they look.
Doesnt make sense to ask Paul this question. Hes not a speaker designer. He specializes in front end equipment. Hes never created a speaker in his life.
The only thing important when you listen to a speaker is : Don't ask yourself if it sounds good or not ! If it sounds good you'll know it immediatly !
Many speakers sound good only with certain music at a certain volume level.
PS audio can make excellent audiophile ACTIVE speakers because they now have the competencies to combine optimal fine tuned high quality electronics and speaker technology into even better sounding products! Beat the likes of KEF LS50W with something much better!
Once again Paul misunderstands or ignores the question.
What do you mean , he addressed the "and why not something else" first then proceeded to talk about the most important part of a speakers sound. Maybe you should listen to the whole thing again.
Speakers trump source because all sources aren't created equal. But a good speaker can crutch help all sources.
He didn't answer the question. A do over is required.
He did. but forgot the crossover.
@@mcplutt He answered a question he wanted to answer. But mentioning the crossover and other design considerations would have been better.