Not a REAL Blacksmith ?
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- Опубліковано 18 лют 2023
- Other people love to tell you what a real blacksmith is or isn't. You get to decide what being a blacksmith means to you, the rest is just a distraction.
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Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.t yourself.
I do blacksmithing at a historical museum where the coal forge is hooked up to a double great bellows and/ or a hand crank blower. Would any of the folks arguing coal only also argue bellows only?
Technology advances. The work gets more efficient. The basic skill of moving the metal correctly to get the desired effect is the art.
Well said
I do the same, except we have an electric fan hidden behind the forge that does most of the work with the air, we figure the old bellows only has so many puffs left in her.
Heh, volunteer at local historical park(early 1600s) and also have a double great bellows. I have actually run into the opposite when talking to folks with them saying I need to use a blower or gas etc to do real blacksmithing(more then once their only argument for it is certain tv shows).
I've used double lung great bellows that I've built myself using charcoal as my fuel source when first started out and it makes forging more hands on but can be a pain after some time. I don't know why so many smiths consider coal to be an old traditional source of fuel. Coal was considered to be toxic and people were not allowed to burn it for forging purposes in Old World Europe as the fumes are noxious so charcoal dominated.
Coal also causes steel to soak in sulfur which is terrible for steel and can make it unpredictably brittle. People used to go out of their way to buy forged steel that was forged using charcoal which does not add sulfur to steel. Gas/liquid fuels probably have a longer history when it comes to forging than coal.
At 60 years of age, I'm just starting out, and my forge consists of an old semi-truck brake drum on a tripod stand, filled with lignite coal. I can count the number of tongs I have on one hand, as well as the number of hammers and other tooling on the other. I'm currently using a cheap Chinese anvil until something better comes along. If someone was to tell me I'm not a real blacksmith, my response would be, "There was a time when you weren't either". Everyone needs to start somewhere, with the key being YOU HAVE TO START.
I'm not going to say you're not a real blacksmith, but I do recommend you switch to a smaller fire pot. The brake rotor from a Chevy 1500 was just about perfect for me, it produced plenty of heat but it used less fuel.
Very well said. I'm also 60 but I started a couple years ago. Blacksmith or not I'm having fun with it.
Whats wrong with the chinese anvil, why is it considered cheap to you.
I'm pretty confident that if you offered a blacksmith in the 1700s a propane forge and a power hammer, the increase in productivity would be welcomed. When I first started, I asked someone I really respect the coal vs propane question, and he said "The only person that should matter to is you."
Power hammers existed back then too
Be careful if you ever stumble across a time machine, a power hammer that wasn't attached to a waterwheel might get you burned at the stake.
@@blkacid No they did not. They had trip hammers that were usually water operated (like a mill). The closest thing they had to a power hammer was the water trip hammer (which required a large running water source such as a large lake or stream for your forge to be hooked up next to) or a treadle hammer which requires leg power.
I will say that those that do not use power hammers are going to be in better cardio/aerobic and even muscular shape and have better longevity then those relying in modern electric power hammers. It's very rare to see a smith that uses hand hammer only (as it was done for thousands of years) that has a big belly. I forge only by hand and hammer only and will continue to do so up until the day that I die because not only is it more rewarding, it's way better for my health.
Another point in comparison is when people had to use axes and crosscut saws prior to the invention of the chainsaw. If you look at the old photos and videos those guys were all slim and in incredible shape because swinging anything heavy whether it be axe or hammer is an excellent aerobic workout that burns a ton of calories.
@@johnbloom1109 Those people were slim because they were poor and food quality was garbage compared to modern day.
@@chrisdeville5495 Garbage compared to modern day?
Modern processed food is what is garbage and causes obesity. It's why the #1 cause of death in the USA is heart disease. Heart disease was extremely rare prior to the industrial revolution. People ate REAL foods.
They did not eat modern processed garbage like pop tarts, tastie cakes, doughnuts, pancakes, snickers, and soda because it was not available.
You should learn your history before commenting. Those slim people ate a lot of meat and starchy vegetables loaded with nutrition such as potatoes and we have historical records of what a lot of those, "poor", people ate.
The blacksmiths pre industrial revolution was all slim and fit even the older smiths. They ate real foods and their work was hard and hands on. There were no electric power hammers and processed garbage.
Completely correct! It's the process that counts. I have realized that it is your own knowledge that is important, not the tools you use.
When I'm not working in air-sea rescue or helicopter ER, I'll be found in our forge with Molly, and it's with your tuition and showing great forging techniques that I learn! Molly is an apprentice to a master blacksmith, but I'm only a hobbyist and get to my forge when it's possible. I've learnt a LOT from you, John! I am very grateful, believe me. And it's wonderful watching you, it's a real honour. I hope this Sunday is being a good day to you and your dear wife. My best regards to the both of you! Wendi 🌻
It is nice to watch a blacksmith like you that has experience and is rounded in smithing! Even though we all may do some blacksmithing we don’t have the experience!
Thank you 🙏
I’ve been accused of this sort of thing before. “Not really a blacksmith” because I use a propane forge. I usually ask them if they’d like to arm wrestle, and the topic of conversation changes.
I’m mostly hand tools for actually forging stuff out, toying with a treadle hammer, but can’t get it where I’d like/feel safe with it.
There’s a special kind of strength that comes with blacksmithing.
I’ve been around long enough to know that anyone saying something like that, is insecure and trying to make you feel as miserable as they are.
Thanks for what you do, John. I’ve learned quite a lot over all of these years you’ve been on here.
There are drawings of water wheel powered trip hammers from the 13th century. Anything to make the job easier.
I asked a guy who works at a big forge if they do any machining or other stuff. He replied, "all we do is heat it and beat it." Most concise summation ever.
Look up the Eisenhower sword made by Wilkenson sword Sheffield smith and striker using a manual drop hammer 😊
Well said John , Just last week my brother told me a real blacksmith only used a coil forge. I told him to go back to his coffee shop and make some Moore flat whites , Thats all he is good for never done a real days work in his life . ☕🤠
Tell him that a real barista grows his own coffee beans.
LoL Mr Douglas! Nails n heads and the striking of the proper blows! Coal is not readily available throughout most of the west of the Mississippi states anymore. But hey.... people will be people! Most don't use their God given intelligence past feeding their pie hole n well the other ends business! 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏼♂️
Thank you sir. While I was inspired by a certain TV show to try bladesmithing . It was you and your videos that inspired me to try more than that . I do not consider myself a blacksmith or bladesmith I do get out to my shop and forge every chance I get to work on something. If it be handles for redoing my kitchen , a blade , or just a leaf it's become a very consuming passion. Thank you
My name is Balde Abdoul Salam.
I live at the west-south of Guinea (Forecariah).
When I see your videos,I was very impressed(amize for me). And I become conscience about the long slepness that I was all the time.
So It will be a chanse for me to be with you there in your ransh of forge for doing my best.
John, you are what you are! Im not a blacksmith but had my first introduction to the craft when I was an apprentice shipwright in the early 80s . It was something that intrigued me all my life until almost a decade ago when I had the time to explore it! Bought my first anvil about 35 years ago at a garage sale because I knew one day I would need it! Been smithing now at least 4 years, built a powerhammer and a treadle hammer but not yet a press! Love the craft, always working towards different methods and results,and products that have modern uses!
Great video, John, especially that little gem about the steel not caring how it got red hot.
One thing, though, about power hammers: if you count water power, then power hammers go way back to the medieval trip hammer.
As always, thanks for being such an important and ENCOURAGING part of the blacksmith community!! Although most smithy content creators are usually very welcoming, it’s nice to watch a video that is devoted just to lifting others up. Thanks John, you’re an awesome person!! ❤️
Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work my friend. Forge On. Fab On. Weld On. Keep Making. God Bless.
I had a kid tell me after a show once that I wasn't a good smith because I have never been on Forged in Fire. I told him that if he used FiF as a gauge for how good a smith is, then he would miss out on a lot of good smiths.
I'm about to be 67 this summer. I started collecting blacksmith tools about 30 years ago. Started buying books, videos (VHF...LOL)...Etc about the same time. I started making ground out knives and learning about chasing the colors for tempering. It wasn't until just before I retired in 2013 that I was able to set up a little blacksmith shop in a horse stall in our 2 stall barn. I started selling things like S-hooks, pigtail meat turners and some cabinet hardware. Point is I didn't consider myself a "real blacksmith" until my sweet little wife snatched a knot in my butt about it. Up until then I had been telling people who ask, that I was a hobby blacksmith. She pointed out that I had been selling things, I had things I forged in a movie, I had helped people who had been doing blacksmithing longer than me with things they didn't know how to do. So...I dropped the hobby part!... Something similar happened at a art gallery I had been selling some bird feeders and hand built furniture in. The owner was doing an after hours get-together for her artist. She ask if I would be able to come. I told her I thought it was just for artist. She said yes, I told her I wasn't an artist I'm just handy. My oldest daughter who really is a working and making really good money artist. She settled it by telling me that her and Jenny, the owner, knew more about art than I did! They told me I'm a Folk artist... I suppose an old man can be a lot of things... LOL... love your videos and I have learned a lot from you. I sure wish we had UA-cam in the old days! Lord only knows what I might be by now
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us younger fellows! It’s invaluable!
no true Scotsman fallacy John, I'd never let someone else define my position, only I get to define my position.
Completely agree they even had a type of power hammer in the 1500 powered by a water wheel
One of my favorite paintings is "The Forge" by Goya. It hangs in the Frick in NYC. Most people would not be able to afford our standard life. It would be luxuries for us hoi palloi. Thank goodness the machines make it possible for blacksmiths to function.
Even with all the modern tools, black smithing is hard work.
Using Vintage tools only means less production.
I'm happy to see you make this video... I saw that one video where that guy was being derogatory to us navies and hobby smiths... I've been a hobby smith for 2 decades.. I'm not very good at it but its because I don't get to spend much time in the shop.. Since I broke my back and neck few yrs ago I don't get to do much of anything now... But I still consider myself a hobby blacksmith...👍👍👍
yes!. I don't really like using a MIG welder for finished projects but sometimes I do. I'm sure it doesn't bother my customers anyway. If that is not what a "real" blacksmith would do then i guess that makes me a metal fabricator on that piece :)
Well said, John.
For many years I was the hammer operator for several different companies, made everything from turbine blade, to engine components. in 2000 I started down the path of smithing although I'm a hobbyist I have always been fascinated by forming and shaping hot metal.
Thanks John. I sat up a little straighter in my seat as I watched.
Glad you enjoyed it
I've heard arguments that using a power hammer isn't the way blacksmithing should be done. My argument back to that would be, "who invented the power hammer?......probably a blacksmith". Who adapted a crank blower to a coal fire forge? Probably a blacksmith that was tired of pulling on an overhead bellow. Who adapted an electric motor to replace the hand cranked blower? Probably a blacksmith who figured he could produce more product and earn enough to upgrade his shop to afford a power hammer. Blacksmiths are innovators and no one era defines them.
Absolutely!
Lately, some idiot did "four hours of research" on the internet and claimed to have solved the mystery of the cause of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore. As a retired Coast Guard Marine Inspector and Investigator, I replied that I MIGHT listen to him after he graduated from a Marine Academy, and sailed as a professional Mariner for at least 10 years, and had worked his way up to Master or Chief Engineer, and until that time, to shut up and go away.
The same is true of people that watch a handful of videos and think they know all there is to know about Blacksmithing!
Very well said! One can go much deeper into this subject and break it down to individual definition which would cause most layman’s minds to explode. Hahaha. As I heard George Dixon say once, never in the history of the craft has any smith said we are tradition and shall advance no further!
Thank you for your hard work in producing these wonderful videos, Mr. John.
When I was making my first few knives my friends were determined that I needed to fold it 1000 times. I explained that is making steel and now days the steel is already made.
So true.👍👍 Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
Thanks for watching
And so as why I watch you.
Thank you.
I've never had anyone question whether I was a "real" blacksmith, happily. Often people think I must shoe horses, but they are quick to understand there's a lot more to the craft. I consider myself a real blacksmith, it's how I make my living now. That might be a more apt criterion.
Well said! Thanks for this video!
I’ve had the “you’re not a real blacksmith conversation “ with a few people. They all had 2 common points their argument was based on. I don’t shoe horses and I have electric power tools. Lol whatever you wanna think, none of them wanted to finish the demo I was doing lol
They were ignorant in that shoeing horses was typically a farriers job which is not a blacksmith. The power tools argument makes sense. Most power tools cause people to rush and encourage bad habits at the anvil because you can just grind stuff with a power tool due to a lack of hand forging ability.
Right. Trolls will troll. I'm a novice blacksmith. I use coal/charcoal, and just got my first propane forge this past Christmas. Gonna put it together when the weather stay above 40 degree.
But none of that means I'm not a blacksmith. I'm right around 3 years in(can't remember when I started lol) but I have maybe 300 finished projects, that look good, and I'm quite proud of. Now 100 of are leaves, and another 100 are scroll pendants, but those projects helped me so much n in the long run. I have pretty good hammer control, I know how to a taper, upset, scroll, punch, cut and more! I've made nearly all the tools I use besides powered stuff, a couple pairs of tongs I got in the beginning, my hammer, and the anvil haha. Anyone reading this who wants to start, listen to John, and listen to this, just jump on in and do it! You most likely won't regret it! The skills will develop, speed/efficiency will come and use your imagination. I started making the typical leaf from square stock, but now I prefer making em out of flat stock. And just tapering the stem. 🍻
Your positivity is so endearing. I love your channel. Never stop.
A good friend once said: traditional blacksmithing is using the acetylene torch like our ancestors would have done if they had one. Blacksmiths always have been the most innovative. So why not using new methods if they make live and work easier?
In the modern age, the blacksmith competes with mass production. He must optimize his workflow if he is to offer his wares at a price the consumer will stomach. Working over coal with a hammer and anvil and filing everything is great for that rustic feeling, but gas/induction heat, power hammers, and belt grinders are almost required today for a one-man commercial venture.
Besides, I don't think ancient smiths scoffed at metal hammers and anvils while they pounded away with stones.
AMEN !!! Great job John. You are definitely a BLACKSMITH and a Great One to say the least. Stay safe and keep up the great work. Fred.
Power hammers go back to before the Romans I believe. 500 bce or so. The first instance of a Trip hammer, or a hammer that was powered by a water wheel, is around 1200 from the sources I could find. So power hammers have been around thousands of years.
Nicely Said John!!
Hydraulic presses are older than the little giant hammers. There is an account in a paper from 1878 by Dimitri Tchernoff noting that Joseph Whitworth had built and was using a 10,000 ton press to compress steel ingots while they solidified. Presses were adopted for forging prior to 1900.
Thanks, great piece of information
Amen to that brother I couldn't have said it better myself
Well said ! Thanks for summarizing that thought process. "Experts" who make such declarations are seldom truly an expert. We all know "ex" means "former" and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure. Therefore, an expert is " a former drip under pressure."
Well put John!
Not to forget hydraulically operated trip hammers from Greco Roman and Medieval history..
Preach on...Great points!
Truer words never spoken.
Apparently there are a couple of morons out there who have never heated steel to forging temps and think they can define "Blacksmith". Not only are you an excellent Blacksmith, you are an excellent teacher. That is rare. I know gifted craftsmen who can not teach. I've met teachers who know the subjects but can not effectively pass on the knowledge.
Thanks
I'm just a hobbyist. I don't make products for sale, or much of anything at all since I injured my wrists. I want to call myself a blacksmith, but I'm an amateur at best. Indeed, I quite agree that it's not the tools that make the smith. It's the skills and the products of those skills that make the blacksmith.
I have a question for you. I have a broken mainspring on one of my flintlocks. Now, I could order some spring steel from Dixie or elsewhere, but I was wondering how spring steel was made years ago. I was wondering if It could be made from mild steel. Any input is welcome. Thanks.
Steel making back in the day was very time consuming and imperfect. You could make it starting with mild steel by repeatedly carborizing the surface and welding back on itself. This was often down in long soaking heats with the iron and carbon in a sealed container.
Well said, ty
Great video 🤓👍
Well said,thanks
I believe water wheel powered power hammers have been used by Blacksmiths for over a thousand years. Good video.
Amen!!!!
I always tell people that a power hammer doesn’t make an unskilled smith any good, and it doesn’t make a skilled smith any worse. It merely amplifies the speed with which a smith can achieve what he is already capable of.
100% agree but as one I can say I prefer Cole forge becuse that I what I know best and work most with and I use a propane gas forge for the first time last year during the summer I heats lik normal but just other stuff to thing about so it just inexperiens
I wonder… in your opinion is there a steel that may respond better to a coal or cleaner gas burner forge? Maybe it changes the chemical composition or develops more scale, or something along those lines?
Well said thanks
4 years learning experience but I'm not a True BlackSmith but I'm part time hobbyists. Out of respect to those who are Masters.
About the only disagreement with your teaching SIR THANKS
Power hammers are around in the middle ages! They were water powered.
I was told once that I`m not a "real" blacksmith because I don`t do horse shoes, another time because I didn`t make knifes and a third time, because I wasn`t selling my work at that time.
Wild, isn`t it.^^
Thats a trip hammer not a power hammer. Power hammer requires electricity.
That's like arguing that a thumb is not a finger. It's equal parts wrong and pedantic.
@@Glaswalker1001 No it's not. Learn up on your history and how water powered mills worked in historical Europe.. A trip hammer that operates on water is night and day different compared to an electric power hammer.
If anything its more related to the old mills of Europe that used trip hammers to crush things up. They all operate on the principle of relying on the movement and power of flowing water to move a heavy weight up while allowing gravity to bring the weight (hammer) back down.
If anything the old trip hammers were more related to a man swinging a very heavy sledge hammer at a slow consistant pace letting gravity do the work.
@@johnbloom1109 You know what? I won't argue with you, as there is no convincing people on the internet anyway.
Good for you John! Let the haters hate. I really have to laugh at those who say, "you're not a real .................". hahahahaha
Good word.
What about the different in blacksmith and bladesmith? I only ask because I usually refrain from calling myself a black limited because I normally just forge blades
this was wonderful
I'll admit, I'm a bit of a purist in one aspect. I don't consider products made entirely with a power hammer "hand forged". But I typically keep that to myself and don't judge people for using them. Maybe it's the romantic in me, but after 17 years at the anvil, there's just something about the look of a hand hammered piece. That's just my preference and opinion though, using a power hammer doesn't take away from the fact that the person using one is a blacksmith.
Well spoken, coming from a Blacksmith! Lol💪🏼🙏🏻❤️🤣
At the end of the day, it's about being creative and enjoying yourself
I had a guy tell me that I couldn't be a blacksmith cause I was working on concrete and not gravel
Good morning 🌅
Good morning
The Vikings had power hammers too
If you work ferric metals with hammer and anvil (And vice, and all sorts of other useful things), in a manner that requires actual skill beyond putting things into place, they I'd say you're a blacksmith. Other metals are different smiths (Silversmith, Goldsmith, Coppersmith... Can't actually think of any other "Smith" words that are of a metal, probably bronze)
I would not introduce myself as a real blacksmith for different reasons. It's "just" my hobby and I almost learned everything I know about blacksmithing from youtube (from you especially) and barely touched a book neither had classes, also I knew a blacksmith when I was younger and he also told me a few things. There are people who did a 3.5 year apprenticeship to become blacksmith and/or have a couple of years of experience , not knowing who you talk to could end up making a fool of yourself and I understand why a real blacksmith would be pissed at me if I considered myself as a real blacksmith.
A hobbyist or a beginner that forges hot iron is still a blacksmith in my book.
@@BlackBearForgeII That is very kind of you John! Thank you for your time of making these videos, they help me alot to get better at blacksmithing!
The people I run into get their idea of what a Blacksmith is from Forged in Fire.🙄
Man your videos are great.
I appreciate that!
I'm confident I'm a, very amateur, blacksmith; because I make stuff with metal and fire.
Give this man a cigar
yes, very good.
Not sure how many people have told me their Grandfather was a blacksmith, but a REAL blacksmith 'cause he shoed horses . . . And am I misremembering, but was not part of Little Giant's advertizing at one time that they are cheaper than an aprentice, 'cause they don't need to be fed when not in use and never get tired?
Good morning
Morning
The double chamber bellows and the water wheel driven helve (power hammer) date back to the 1400s
And I am not a blacksmith because I don’t shoe horses! (Dangerous at both ends and crafty in the middle.)
A REAL(Traditional, in a lot of opinions) Blacksmith was the source of innovation, especially, when it came to tools. He was all about creating things to make his job easier. An 1800's Blacksmith might scratch his head, because of the trouble we go through to make things, today. Not just the things we don't actually need or are not needed for, but some people's insistence on doing what they do the hard way, refusing to use a wall full of tools because that not how they used to do it. He'd undoubtedly be the first to tell them it was because they didn't have those tools available. Gatekeeping in Blacksmithing is egotistical and pretentious.
I just watched the transition away from the coal vid. Tools don’t make a craftsman.
I cringe every time I see them elves reforge Strider’s sword in LoTR.
DaVinci started making power hammers many many moons ago and I guarantee if they'd had an electric welder in the 1500 they would have used it 😂.
Thank you Mr John
Blessings Sir
Crawford out 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏼♂️
They were not electric power and more than likely, only a small minority of the smiths had access to the large helve hammers since they usually required ones smithy be next to a running river or lake.
@@johnbloom1109 TRUE. However the point still remains valid.
Had the smiths in any century prior to this had access to the tools we use now powered by electric doodads they would have happily USED them over the period correct tools they had. There comes a time when man advanced from throwing stones n beating prey w clubs. Therefore to say one isn't a blacksmith because he uses propane Forge or a hydraulic press or an electric or electric over air power hammer is just hullabalaux. Nether do we gather hay with syths nor grind corn n wheat on an ox wheel nor hunt prey for the daily meat.
That's all I was saying. Definitely not that davinchi hammers were electric in his correct period. 🙏🏻🔥⚒️🧙🏼♂️
@@dragonstonegemironworkscra4740 They would have used it sure but they didn't because it didn't exist hence why we have traditional blacksmithing.
argument
My opinion is that anyone can forge stuff with a power hammer. The really good smiths mostly rely on good technique using hand hammer only. There's almost nothing one can't forge using nothing but a hand hammer.
I personally don't like modern blacksmithing nor much of modern anything. Before you know it all forging will probably be done by CNC machines and people will say, "oh well if people had them in the old days they would have used them too" and people will argue that CNC blacksmithing takes just as much skill as hand forged.
Give it a decade or two and blacksmithing will mostly be dominated by people using CNC.
@@johnbloom1109 understand your points
What HE said....
Any sentence that starts with "Real XYZs" is already nonsense. Hearing that junk come out of someone's mouth (or keyboard) is a huge red flag for me.
People just like to gate keep people
The *ABANA* should be held to account as well. They FINALLY put together a "comprehensive" program for people to follow, after untold years, all thanks to the efforts of Mark Aspery. With shows like "Forged in Fire" and "Master at Arms" popularizing bladesmithing, albeit a small segment of the craft, one should very much ask , "Where has ABANA been all these years?" Why is there not a national curriculum and understanding of what constitutes a blacksmith? It's been abundantly clear to me that many of the decision makers have an unfortunate tendency to not understand modern technology and will quickly dismiss UA-cam smiths or any other social media users. Granted, some Social Media persons are clearly incompetent, but others are world class smiths in their own right. Social Media IS the way of communicating ideas and education, with UA-cam essentially being the library of choice for many. To the point made, be honest with your abilities and call yourself what you can fairly say is accurate. Thanks! AAR "Dabbler in Blacksmithing"
From now on I call you a forgesmith instead of a blacksmith. Congratulations.
You are not a real blacksmith 🤓🤓🤓
Never had a hammer in his hand before
A black man named smith blacksmithing