Roger Wakefield I understand your opinion and I respect it I have been a plumber almost 26 years I am very thankful to my late father in-law for teaching me the trades when I was 18 he was a contractor we didn’t sub anything out so he trained us to turn key projects I really enjoy your channel my biggest knock on the union it protects lazy tradesmen lol
Im a local 440 plumber in Indiana. I’ve been in ten years now and I can say this, what you said is fair...I do mostly maintenance, fixing plumbing systems, leaks, Heating hot water systems, steam and condensate. There is definitely a demand for skilled workers and I know many “book buyers” who in all honesty are even better than people like me who went through the apprenticeship. You can tell when there’s a job coming up and they hire people from the hall, who is going to stay after the jobs done and who is going to get sent back. I joined the union because I needed a solid training structure, I’m just one of those people. And I like the point you made about wages, in this trade whether it’s union or not we are competing with each other, and keeping a valuable plumber right now is much more valuable than getting rid of a bad one. I think the competition between union shops and non union shops drives wages up, at least for big construction like you said, right now here in Indiana a good plumber can easily bring home 6 figures a year but you’re not going to bring that home if you aren’t worth. The biggest thing I’ve learned from this trade is that no matter who you work for, you will ONLY get out of it, what you put into it.
There is some validity to your complaints, but no system is perfect. The idea is to work to make it better, not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Unions raise wages for all in their field, you would not be able to pay your nonunion guys as much if the wages weren't negotiated up by unions. Union numbers have been going up recently as well, not sure about your local area but overall there has been growth. The union benefit to the contractor is that you can man up a job with well trained, safety minded workers who will protect your bottom line and EMR.
I’m a 3rd year apprentice in a union and I show up work hard and I’ve learned so much in my short time. I’ve never had any issues whatsoever. I’ve always been respected and taken care of by all my foremen and journeymen. I love that I know I’m doing something at no cost to me that can provide for my family.
That is awesome Andrew! I still tell people that getting into the union is a great thing to do. I think the education and the benefits make it worth it!
Hi Andrew. I just applied to the steamfitters union today. Hope I get accepted. I am hungry to learn this trade and gain experience. I enjoy the math involved with it too! Hope you finish the program!
Im about to apply to join when the apprenticeship opens back up. A have a journeyman that's a roommate. I'm excited. I'm female, though, so we'll see how that goes.
@@jackfarrell4727 I had the same question at first but after seeing that you rent them, that's actually really smart. I just hope you're good to your tenants. I've had a few bad landlords tbh.
I got into the Electricians Union right out of highschool, did 5 years apprenticeship and just hit 25 years in the Union. I’ve be worked solid all these years. General Forman now running big work it’s been a great career!!
I want to own a residential plumbing company in the future but I’m barely looking into the trade, do you think it’s better to go non union since it’s more residential?
@@alexrodriguez-bd4pjbro from personal experience i would just go and join the union. Worked for 4 years in the non-union and from what Ive seen it’s a lot more fast paced for less pay and significantly less benefits. I just got into the union this week and while i did take a pay cut my journeyman and foreman have told me i don’t really know how good i have it until i’ll retire. Wanna make less go non-union, but wanna make $50+ and benefits go union well at least here in jersey, unions down south might pay less and have less work. You could always go on your own being in the union after you top out and decide to get your business/contractor’s license. Ive had some guys who had their own company tell me to just go union and work because they get old and have to be chasing work and checks which sucks but Ive also seen guys make very good money owning their own businesses but they’re not doing residential, they’re doing commercial/industrial or at the very least doing very high end custom homes
Hello. I'm curious as to why non union is better for residential. Also is most of "service" residential or commercial? Thank you in advance. @@TulanePass
@@mrharlemike28it’s not that it’s necessarily “better” for residential. It’s just that union skilled trades such as electric and plumbing tend to be on the commercial/industrial side of things. Non union tend to have a wayyy larger market share in residential
I'm a union plumber with local 75 out of Wisconsin. I didn't the bulk of my apprenticeship at a non union shop. Now, I can only speak for my personal experience but I saw more "good old boys" clubs in non union shops than I have in union shops. I think the decision weather to be union depends on each person's needs and wants. I enjoy your videos Roger. Keep up the good work.
I am a Union HVAC Technician in Louisiana. The best thing about the hall in my opinion is how helpful it is to begin your adult life and try to do something with it. I’ve been in it for 7 years and I am grateful for where the hall has given me the steps I need to take in order for me to be successful.
I've been in service for 3 years, and my favorite part is that I'll work on everything from cups and springs all the way to big commercial heater replacements. Always different every day, and I work for a good company that really cares about me and my work.
I was a union Sheetmetal worker for 4 years, During my 3rd year I was given a truck and a crew by the company and was running my own jobs making journeyman scale. A few journeyman had a problem with this and filed grievances. 2 months later I owed the union 10k or I would lose my job. I walked away, took a different path in life and I’m happy as can be. But the good old boys club has to go! I also paid the appropriate dues for my pay scale. I support unions still but I will never work for one again.
Something doesn't add up. I think you were 3rd year making journeyman wage was running crew full of other apprentices which means no journeyman. Ofcourse is kinda messed up because all companies would take advantage lay their journeymen off and hire cheap-o apprentices only. Your boss screwed you over and took advantage of you to stick it to union.
@@Holop88 Thing is, there wasn't any journeyman on the bench. I negotiated my own wage, Which is technically allowed. Required by the union is only a Minimum rate of which a 3rd-year apprentice gets paid.
I'll be a 2nd year apprentice on feb.10th and so far I'm not complaining. School SUCKS right now because of Covid19 but I'm still not complaining, yet! I've heard good and bad. But right now I'm okay with everything. Thanks for your videos I've been watching them ever since I joined. (I'm the 2nd black female plumber in my local, I'm a living legend 😎)
The bottom line for me is the money, where I’m at union wages are at $56 an hour total package, non union shops are twenty dollars less and no pensions maybe health care for the worker, as for union dues that twenty dollars an hour more makes up for the 2-3 thousand to be in the union
Granted I don’t know what local you are in and what city but $56 and hour is probably just take home. You’re total package is probably close to double that
I work hard. I’m smart. I applied with the union didn’t hear anything from them. Applied at a open shop learned from a master plumber, probably the best plumber in the metro area I live in (service plumber). Now the union leaders approach and want me to join. When asked about joining with no experience they said “you really need to know some one to get in”. The union needs to take a chance on guys. I am a successful service plumber with the house and car to prove it. I wouldn’t join the union now because it would be a pay cut. That good old boy or family member only mentality will be the end of the union.
Hell yeah, you're ahead. Keep thinking about your future and get started early like you're doing. By the time you're 25 like me you'll be loving yourself for worrying about your future and getting your foot in the door early. Unlike me, just now getting started..
I've been in the UA for 15 years. Started out right out of high school. Got in as HVACR Tech. the decision I made as a young kid coming out of high school. The pension and the benefits are great. Education is top notch. We have a different contract from the plumbers. We also do get holiday pay.
I have been a member of Local 94 insulators union since 2011. I have seen SEVERAL union folks do some pretty questionable work. Not all union folks are up to par, but some of us try to keep ourselves to the union standards. Good work can come from both union AND non union!!
Best video on this topic. Your experience you shared are the same as mine. Both the pros and cons. One big con left out that many guys experience is lay offs once the job is finished. Thank god I didn't have to experience that much myself.
I agree with almost everything you said except for what you brought up about people not being yelled at if they just do what they’re supposed to do. I was harassed CONSTANTLY at my last job because my management was jealous that I was in my early 20’s making the same money they made after 10 years of work. Being the youngest in any profession is so damn difficult. You get poked and poked and poked until you can’t handle it anymore and then when you say something you have become the entitled youth of the group.....it’s extremely stupid. And North Carolina is a right to work state so employers can do whatever they please to employees.....it’s bad for employees in this state....
I am 100% UA. I has been incredibly awesome to me. I agree with a large portion of what you're saying, and I hope someone in the UA sees this and starts incentivizing members starting their own businesses.
4th year plumbing apprentice here in Toronto. Wage is amazing, we work 36 hour work weeks, so we have every Friday off which is so amazing, gives more time to do side jobs🤑🤑
@@sarahgardner8856 I live an hour outside of Toronto and knowing someone definitely helps, but keep applying your self to Local 46 . They have intakes every now and again!
I'm out of UA Local 525 in Vegas. I'm a licensed plumber, pipefitter, hold my rigging certs. Have worked service side, commercial, new construction, remodels, refineries, nuke plants, Etc. There is great truth to what you shared in this video. There are many that have very arrogant and condescending attitudes towards organized hands, book buyers, or rats as you mentioned. I've worked alongside some amazingly skilled hands that cane from outside the union. It amazes me how threatened some become when those from outside the union join the ranks. There is no better time to come along side and embrace a new member, encouraging them with a genuine Brotherhood that is supposed to be what the Union is all about. I've seen many of the good old boys, the cliques, the stubborn that refuse to evolve and grow into new ways, tools, technologies. Too many that view the contractor as an enemy and not a partner. No contractors = no employer You nailed it in regards to the life changing benefits financially offered to the members. As well as the challenge it creates for contractors to bid jobs. Our local has two scales one for residential/service The other for commercial/new construction Finally trying to regain market share in the residential service sector. Training is absolutely top notch and critical tio making oneself a valuable asset to the contractors and your union. It is unfortunate that it is boom or bust when a Union hand. Yet a blessing with the great training, I'm able to travel to any local that is needing men to man the work. While the open shop hands seem to have many options whether booming or not. Solid arguments by you both pro and con.
They're not life changing, the health insurance sucks for what the union is. My dad had way better insurance years ago through his union than my union gives me now. It all depends where you are, here in the midwest you get fucked a lot
Union Steamfitter. The best thing is still the pension. I really appreciate the training, but like you said it can be hit or miss with the instructors.
@@jhonni7629 I can’t speak about plumbing vs pipefitting, but pipefitting and steamfitting are the same job. Steamfitting is a more antique term for it, as pipe fitters mostly worked with steam engines back in the day
I think if you're in construction union is the way to go. Service on the other hand is dominated by non-union work and that's how it should be. Service is where the money is.
I started non union and brought the skills and speed to the table. Capital Plumbing and Heating was the best. Shout out to Ron,Jack and Mark more power to Capital. Rat means we work fast and efficient.
I got into the plumbers and steamfitters union in So. Cal right out of High school in the early 80's. I graduated a 5 year apprenticeship program. I stayed a member for 13-1/2 years. I tried to stay educated and be more employable by getting as many extra cards and certificates through Journeyman classes to expand my knowledge. Plumbing, steam fitting, high purity piping systems for microchip industry, medical gas piping, orbital welding, etc. I always showed up on time, worked hard, and got things done. Having gone through all of that I still rarely worked year round. I only hade 9-1/2 years pension credits after 13-1/2 years membership. Never enough work for everybody to stay employed. Too much non union competition. I tried traveling to sister locals to stay working and never got hired on. Got the same answer at all of them, "we don't have enough work for our own let alone outside members". After several years not being able to work I had to quit and go non union. The union kept my hard earned 9-1/2 years pension credits because the rule was it took 10 years to be vested. Now years later I'm disability retired at 58 and I could really use that money. Bottom line, the unions want to own your soul.
same thing in the operating engineers graduated the apprenticeship and went to all the extra classes and the contractors told me the i didnt have enough experience would work about 5 months out of the year got vested thank god but at 48 i cant keep doing this just changed careers and wont be going back again worked mostly august sept and october then layed off till april keep getting told you need more training and you go and get the training and they tell you need more training go get your cdl and still nothing its all the same for everyone dude who makes it in the union till retirement 9 others dont unions no different from a temp agency just pays better way better you werent the only one brother
Is Union plumbing a bad idea at age 32 wife an 3 kids? Is it too risky due to lay offs to try an get in? Also here in Indiana Local 440 does anyone know union dues?
I'm a UA plumber and pipefitter. It's really the only way to earn a decent living to support a family including retirement and Healthcare. Non-union will never pay you even close, respect you the same, or teach you as much. Honestly I went non union for a few years and could barely survive. Greedy people who take advantage of their men who are just happy to be working. Just my experience
My experience is the same… I’ve never been in a union I’m gonna apply here soon. It was hell just getting the hours but i finally got my residential license so here go union service plumbing baby
I'm a non union residential new construction plumber, best part is there is ALWAYS work. There's more work than all of the plumbers can Actually produce. Just in one house alone you can do the underground, gas, vents, top soil, and potable water. So imagine if the job has 15-20 houses! 💰💰💰
After watching "Right to Work" fights, seeing what happened to GM (my grandfather retired from there. When asked what he did, "when I'm tired, I pull a piece of cardboard and take a nap), and the whole black balling thing, I'm not really interested in unions.
Member of 449 here. The residential market is a hard to use union. Your bread and butter is industrial work and maintenance contracts but it depends how your local is set up. If you're in a combination local of plumbers and pipefitters its easy to find those types of work opportunities. Pipe is pipe. If you're just a streamline local you get into jurisdiction disputes.
I can only speak for me personally, my union (local 68) has been great for me. As a service plumber, I believe I would not of had the success I have now without the apprentice program or the many additional classes they offer. Ultimately however I think it just comes down to what works for each person individually.
BlackBird I love the union. Local 68 is great. I think they actually train service. My local still doesn’t and that’s part of what killed me. I was once an instructor in the UA. I think the training program is wonderful if you have the right people running it at the local level. If not... you get what you get.... Good luck down in Houston it’s a great place to be a plumber.
In Chicago I am a non union shop for 20 years and have always believed in quality work no matter what. Recommend by many local villages . But in the city itself the inspectors are told to fail our inspections before they even leave the office . Unoin reps on my jobs tell me to not keep full time employees,never been a big fan.
As growing up in a pro labour union family (local 183) with a sister with a disability the benefits are amazing for employees but as a business owner I could see where there's some negativity towards unions
UA 290 myself. I take probably 100 hours of continuing Ed every year through my union for free. The dues are well worth it. Also, my monthly dues are 35 dollars a month plus maybe $1.50 an hour while I’m working. I total package is $97 an hour with $58 an hour on the check. I worked nonunion and the biggest difference to me in the safety practice. Saftey is what make sure I get home each night, I have desire to work o nonunion
I’ve worked union and non union as a service plumber. Being union doing service work you don’t have time to give customers a good experience. In and out because my total package was costing the company almost 100 per hour. As a service plumber non union I have time to do things how I want. Provide excellent customer service and do it right by not killing myself. So I would rather work non union because I’m not being pressured or my wage being held over my head.
It only take a second to give good customer service. I call bs on this. Yeah sure maybe you don't have time to go into details with customer, however i doubt an open shop would be ok with you spending the same amount of time.
Dre Day maybe you haven’t experienced the situation? I joined local 130 in July of 2019. Was placed with a company and was told I was moving too slow countless times. They laid me off on Halloween the same year. Was denied unemployment. In December of 2019 Christmas Eve I went to work for a non union company. It’s august 2020 and still working for the same company. Have several social media reviews and the company loves me. I still pay union dues and pay for my health insurance through the union. My point is the union only cares about how much you make for the company and how fast you do it. They talk about how everyone are brothers and sisters and how they have your back. It’s all bullshit. I haven’t received 1 phone call from the hall since I was laid off. They have to know I’m working non union and they don’t care because I’m still paying union dues.
If I complete my apprenticeship in California and receive my journeyman license, can I transfer to a different union in another state like Nevada or Texas?
I think Nevada had has reciprocity with California. However, some sates do not, I am a Plumbing Contractor in California and moved to Idaho and had to do a lot of work once there proving. I first had to reapply for the Journeyman and take all of the tests once I obtained that I had to do the same thing to become a contractor again. Process took about a year. I guess at least now because of reciprocity with states I have the whole western sea board covered.
I am a fan and have watched a lot of your videos but this one just popped up in my feed and I HAD to see what your opinions on Unions are. here are some quotes that I simply wanted to address from my perspective: "I would rather see a way that I can pay them a lower amount, and incentivize them..." I understand you said that you wanted to incentivize your employees, but the first part of that sentence is what perks the ears of union members. Lower wages and raises for doing a better job is literally how most business would say they operate today, but if you look at the numbers, companies without a union, even with "incentives" almost always pay less than a company with a union simply because there is nobody to stop the company without a union from continuing to dwindle pay and reducing the incentives. "you are liable to get blackballed or told we really don't need you around anymore you're doing too good of a job" This is one issue that I always had contention with when I was in a union, the issue isn't that they simply fire someone for doing a good job, but if the person is doing so much more than quota it can cause a huge issue with work flow and even job security. my first job was not a union job and I worked hard and busted hump every day under the promise that "There will always be more work" but the truth was that two months before the contract was due I was laid off because the contract was completely fulfilled two months early, this made the company I worked for very happy and it made the customer very happy and left me out of work for two months. While I understand this seems unfair to the company to deliberately not work as hard as I can, I thought it was unfair to lay me off for two months because I had worked so hard to get the quota met. The only difference is that the company made their money regardless of the timetable and I had to settle with the unemployment pay I was getting until I could find a new job. "There is no growth plan" "why aren't unions trying to get everyone to join?" I thought when I first joined a union. The truth is that companies will literally close down businesses to avoid a union forming and it ultimately is up to the employees if they want to form or join a union, so beyond pamphlets and advertising there is little that they can do.
I was a plumber in local 690 and hated it honestly it was to Political for me a lot of favoritism and extra BS that I did not agree with so now I work for a private company after resigning from the union and I’m happier than I ever been but being in the union and the plumber I am today which is a very good very proficient plumber so I did get some growth from being in the union that much I can say
I'm interested in entering the plumbing trade and stumbled upon your channel. Good eye contact and speaking. I am currently working as a Drain Tech and hurt my back lifting a heavy snake and got no loss pay from my employer via WCB. I'm looking towards going to find a plumber who's a journeyman/red seal certified. I hear when working under an actual plumber you don't have lift 100 lb equipment, is there anything else I should be aware of before I take the "plunge" (plumber's pun) into plumbing?
2nd year bta. I work for a small mechanical outfit. Medically retired from the military, went through the VIP and came straight into the union a couple weeks after I was discharged. Ive got my gripes about the local, but all in all, I've got it pretty good. The work ethic from the military carried over into the building trades seamlessly, and I'd recommend it to any other vet that still wants to work with their hands. The so called "Brotherhood" in the local is extremely subjective, but there's definitely some guys that'll watch your back if they see that you work hard. I love it, and I appreciate it for what it is.
I worked in a grocery store and we were union. My wages and benefits would have been substantially less (Walmart pay and benefits) if it weren't for the union. I quit working for the grocery store after we went on strike for a month and a half. We made money to be on the picket lines but way less. We had a bit of public support in the beginning. I started seeing the customers I was so nice to cross our line. When the strike was over, I quit. I couldn't bring myself to be nice to the customers who crossed. I worked for Kroger's for 9 years and earned a little pension. I then became a plumber!
Customer who crossed? LMAO I wouldnt care if the workers were striking either. I will go to the store that has the lowest prices regardless. That was YOUR fight not theirs.
The problem with my local union is i need NEED to be home every night i dont have a problem working 15 hours a day but i have 4 kids i gotta be a dad for so my local union does all their work very far away from home and i dont have time for that
I agree, I’m have been worked both. I’m non Union now. In my opinion a good majority of people in the union are stuck in the past. I have met a lot of good people in the union and non union. I think it just comes down to the persons character and doing the right thing.
I’m a commercial service plumbers helper here in nyc. It is possible for me to attend the training center/ school while not being in the union or staying in my job? I enjoy the company where I work at but I want to get as much education as possible even if it comes out of my own pocket. Is it possible?
Union 142. Biggest flaw is I didn’t have a choice on plumbing or pipe fitting. I want to be a plumber but they assigned me to the pipe fitting side. Will be like that for the first couple years…
@@XDIRTY_TAMALEX Well I'm not sure how you local operates but in my experience if you're good at your job you can do far better non union. Better pay, better benefits, and better work environment. In your case, they don't even have you doing the trade you actually want to be doing. I don't know how good your instructors are or how good the courses are but my local had a basically non existent education where we basically just had to show up and the instructor collected his check, didn't learn a single thing in my class time.
I remember a union guy who told me the union was going to upgrade their old typewriting machine. They decided not to move forward because they feared the old employee would have a hard time learning and may lose hours. So yes unions are good in keeping jobs but they prevent advancement in trades and productivity. Sometimes there needs to be a balance. Makes me wonder if the automobile companies were dragged down by the union.
I'm trying to join the UA union (3rd year non-union) apprentice... but every one says work isn't stable and I'll be sol... idk what to do about this crap and currently kinda unhappy with my current sercumstance
I'm applying to become an apprentice with my local union and they said the starting pay is 18 an hr then 36 an hr with benefits. Don't really understand the pay scale. Do I make 18 an hr or 36?
You'll get paid 18/hr on your check minus whatever percentage the union snatches up, the higher number is just an inflated rate that's meant to get you excited, doesn't mean anything and you'll never see that money.
You made some great points on how being in a union is beneficial to the worker and I wouldn't argue with that. But I would like add some perspective. Union are not beneficial for guys who are non union. Not only are they not beneficial it can sometimes be detrimental to your business. Unions and union shops hate to see non union guys succeed. We lost some very high end jobs because the unions found out and made sure we didn't get the contract just because we weren't union. Unions claim to be all about the worker but only if the worker belongs to their club. If you're not a card carrying member then screw you. That's just my personal experience. It may not be that bad down in Texas or others areas of the country but it is in mine. I prefer integrity and ethics over money and benefits.
The point of a union is to protect the worker by ensuring fair pay and benefits. Non union shops undercut their workers in order to save on labor costs, thus being able to bid lower on projects. The shop still makes the same amount of money, their workers get shafted.
@@martinezelmy88 Show up every day, and apply yourself. Ask questions when you do not understand something. If you end up working with people with negative attitudes do your best to learn what not to do from them.
Plumbing for over 30 years and worked in and out of the Union. My Union scale now is $30.48 with $42.48 total package ( including benefits). Worked for Non Union shop for 6 years $30 an hour zero benefits. While working for the Non Union shop I collected directly from the customer who was charged $89 just for me showing up and $160 an hour for my labor. At the least I made over $1,200.00 a day and have collected over $6000 in one day. Done a water service in one day with less than $100 material and $600 labor. We charged book prices on that job and I collected $6000 that afternoon. If a Non Union shop says they can't match what the Union gives to their plumbers they are nothing more than greedy. I left the Non Union shop and they're about to lose another very good plumber to the Union because of greed. I've done all the up sale on jobs. Talked owners into repipes, going tankless and more but NOTHING for me but my wages. Non Union shops are basically saying I'll use you to get rich without one single drop of sweat.
I’m a Texas master plumber and I am not in the union. I do believe in training and education. I have licensed plumbers working under me and I strive to help make them better by sharing my experience and teaching them about the mistakes I made and how to avoid them. Your videos are very informative and I believe in what you are doing.
EchoNubb Gaming you have to become an apprentice by getting hired at a plumbing company. Then it takes 4 years and 48 hours of training to get to take the journeyman test. Hold your journeyman license for 4 years and then apply for the master license test. Anywhere from 8-10 years total. I have been a plumber for 16 years now.
Hi Roger, Thanks for posting. I do like the points you gave pro and con for Unions. Unions across the board have been taking it on the chin the past few years. They can only blame themselves. Un I'm not here to pass judgement. Union membership has very nice benefits. It will help keep food on your table and a roof over your head. We are all individuals who are free to make our own choices. You want to work hard and safely be respectful to your employer and co workers way to go. Its not how much money you make its how much you save. Personal income is personal (private) you want to put your private business on the street go right ahead. I'm am thankful for what I have. Local 94 Operating Engineers Thank you for collective bargaining. Let's be respectful of all. (Plumbers crack included) Very few are born with that. :)
Michael Brennan I believe in the union. If they did some things differently they could own the trades in the US. I wish they would. I am just making points here that it’s not all peaches and cream. I made the choice to be a union contractor when I started my company. Now I make the choice not to be.
@@RogerWakefield Thank you Roger. Yes. I takes a true determination to start your own company. Most small companies cannot survive under the by-laws of what union members are entitled to. I have heard a story of a HVAC company that to close shop due to their union card holding members refused to work at a specific job location. (Wth??) I would find it VERY difficult to run my own mechanical business. I've seen good and bad on both sides of this debate. I knew I was a little short on the mechanical end so I decided to get a 4 year college degree. (BS Organizational Leadership) I could not sit behind a desk all day. I like to trouble shoot and make repairs. Here in NYC the labor unions have felt the effects of open markets. Its such a back/forth. I come from a Union family unfortunately one word of advice my Dad (RIP) told me is that the unions tend tk protect the trouble makers. Gives the rest of the union members a bad name. Be well Roger and work safe. Hello Texas!!
You, having been a Union contractor should know that none of your money goes to the “union”. All the contributions you made went to your employees as fringe benefits, it’s part of their pay. It’s something you agreed to pay when you signed the agreement. The salaried officers are paid by the members, not you. This whole rant seems to come from someone who had a personal problem with union management. I ran a local Union for many years and the accusations you make are not facts, just your perception. We represented over 80 contractors and none of them left at the end of a contract. PAC fund contributions are voluntary, any member can opt out. The Union does not “pay off” any politician, they make contributions to political parties or candidates, all of which are highly regulated and scrutinized as a matter of election law. Any organization that you belong to, like the NRA or AARP does the same thing. You are simply mistaken on many points, seems like you have an agenda. You do a disservice to your viewers by misleading them.
frank pellegrino it’s not a personal problem. It is a good business decision. The things I talked about are facts from here. I did sign the contract and did exactly what I was supposed to do. There are things that weren’t done on the other side. Look, I am a union member that started my own company and wanted to be union. I believe in the system. It just is not a good thing for a small residential service company to do here. My union doesn’t train service or residential so they could not give me hands that work. I’ve been trying to make it better for 5 years.... It just does not work. And I am being 100% honest and transparent with my viewers as I always am.
As a steamfitter and plumber which are different trades up here my local 496 we always have to repair non unions work. With all those great skills picked up from building non union maybe wouldn’t have the problems your having in Texas now. Open shops brought poor skilled fitters and plumbers doing fitting which have been breaking unions bringing down wages . Since Reagan it doesn’t matter which party there both currupt. Sold everyone out a long time ago with his trade deals. Saying you can’t compete because of wages sounds alot like saying you can’t compete with China and there labour laws. All of North America has been losing the standard of living with that thinking.
I think that the Unions were first created to protect the workers from bad bosses/owner, unsafe conditions, and get a way to talk with bosses/owners. IMO, we really need that in the world because they are meant keep the bad bosses/owners in check, stop bad laws, and help maintain a good standard. Unions also help the people at the top to know what's going on and how the workers are doing. Unions have, in general, gotten corrupt, greedy, and forgot what they are supposed to be doing but that can only really be done from the inside from the bottom up. A good, healthy, and successful business requires a symbiotic relationship between the owner/boss and the workers. The owner needs the worker just as much as the worker needs the owner.
Journeyman from open shop to the local nearly doubled my hourly rate plus the Bennie's and. Best thing short of running my own shop. The bureaucracy is a different story...
Been non union for 8 years and union 7 years. Biggest difference is non union shop will pay you competitive wage to begin with but couple years passes by and you fall behind because no scheduled raises then before u know it its 3 4 5 years passes by and you realize your buddy at union doing same work and making 25k more than you do so you uncomfortably demand a raise or threat to quit they sit down and give you a raise 4-8k raise but not nearly 25k raise because instead of gradually giving raises throughout the year like union does. Company is never financially ready to give one tremendous raise. Then in 10 years you realize you making half of what union worker makes. Also when you start making decent money watch the co workers who are content with being underpaid get better jobs than you because they make more money for the company. I also know billing for both non union and union shops there is no difference in labor rates and mark up prices. Per every billable hour union boss keeps about 25-30% and non union boss 60-65%
Joshua Ferreira I have people contact me everyday about getting into the union. Both contractors and hands. I am being 100% honest and transparent here. I like the union, it's just not for everyone. Especially smaller contractors.
As an ex-union member. I know it was the unions (mostly the SEIU) that pushed for the $15 pay scale. With many SEIU scales at $15 to $20 an hour. It wasn't long we are hear every SEIU wanting to up their contracts. Saying they don't get paid enough.
Very much agree. For a young guy starting out. The only thing i dont thing you would get going union is cross training between trades. In my 20yrs as a skilled trades person ive been able to do construction and service doing plumbing hvac and refrigeration. I do not think i would have gotten as broad of experience from a union job. On the flip side i would likely have better retirement
The growth part is obejectively the biggest issue since unions are conservative from change. I mean we need to be bigger and open up to ideas that helps everyone.
Hey I’m looking to get into the plumbing field but I really just wanna get into the trade to do my own residential thing would you recommend I join the union or go to a paid school?
Someone please tell me what it means to be "Black Balled"? He didn't go into enough detail, I think I have an idea from the context but still not sure.
Not a plumber, but we have it in the fashion industry too. Black Balled or Black Listed means they don't work with you. They don't supply you, they don't order from you, they don't link to you on websites, they don't advertise or reccomend you, etc. An epic example: Now I saw this more from suppliers and occasionally from local clubs since there isn't really a union anymore for our sort of retail [it died in the 80's]. I worked with all small family businesses supplied by bridge fashion [not couture runway or discount, but the bridge between - like Coach bags, affordable by upper middle class] that sold professional women's suits and fancy party/formal dresses. This one shop undercut on price for a certain brand. I'm talking taking a loss on the wholesale price before even including the shipping cost for the product on a bridge line and my CEO sent the print advertisement to our supplier's rep. I'm thinking this shop was hoping to get more of the customers to their boutique by luring them in with an insane deal on a small item, but we all signed the same contract and bridge brands are very wary of losing their status and becoming discount level. No advertisement for in season merchandise below a certain price is allowed. It ruined their reputation. In a week suppliers (who tend to have have "find a store" features for their prom and formal lines that are massively important these days) started to cut them off like they never existed. Some of the other shops in the area must have called up the magazine and local paper because all their ads stopped running. Even the local PTA didn't include them in their prom shopping guide the next year, and it got back to me that they "couldn't in good conscience reccomend a business with that sort of owner." I probably don't have to say they closed pretty quick.
Why are the unions not growing? They do not want to . Why would they. Producing more union members can be counter productive. It's about supply and demand. Increasing the supply of tradesmen reduces their value. Artificial scarcity is part of the union business model. Unions by their nature traffic in monopolizing labor.
I live around the block from the union hall 3 times I applied and was denied. I scored 98 on the test, have no drink, drugs, gambling or woman problems. I had been in the trade for years, and I was really impressed by the shop and wanted to make a career there "You're not what we're looking for'. On the way out, I was told to consider hiring guys from the hall ( I am licensed with my own business ) How does one respond to that ? I have a few students that are members, and sometimes I think the erasers are smarter than them. I'm still pro union, but I'm convinced run by dopes.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think about my critiques? Was I on-point or was I wrong?
I think you gave your opinion :)
Roger Wakefield I understand your opinion and I respect it I have been a plumber almost 26 years I am very thankful to my late father in-law for teaching me the trades when I was 18 he was a contractor we didn’t sub anything out so he trained us to turn key projects I really enjoy your channel my biggest knock on the union it protects lazy tradesmen lol
Roger. Im a local 230 pipefitter, welder. This union is very weak, only Steady Eddie's stay busy. No work, its sad.
Im a local 440 plumber in Indiana. I’ve been in ten years now and I can say this, what you said is fair...I do mostly maintenance, fixing plumbing systems, leaks, Heating hot water systems, steam and condensate. There is definitely a demand for skilled workers and I know many “book buyers” who in all honesty are even better than people like me who went through the apprenticeship. You can tell when there’s a job coming up and they hire people from the hall, who is going to stay after the jobs done and who is going to get sent back. I joined the union because I needed a solid training structure, I’m just one of those people. And I like the point you made about wages, in this trade whether it’s union or not we are competing with each other, and keeping a valuable plumber right now is much more valuable than getting rid of a bad one. I think the competition between union shops and non union shops drives wages up, at least for big construction like you said, right now here in Indiana a good plumber can easily bring home 6 figures a year but you’re not going to bring that home if you aren’t worth. The biggest thing I’ve learned from this trade is that no matter who you work for, you will ONLY get out of it, what you put into it.
There is some validity to your complaints, but no system is perfect. The idea is to work to make it better, not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Unions raise wages for all in their field, you would not be able to pay your nonunion guys as much if the wages weren't negotiated up by unions. Union numbers have been going up recently as well, not sure about your local area but overall there has been growth. The union benefit to the contractor is that you can man up a job with well trained, safety minded workers who will protect your bottom line and EMR.
I’m a 3rd year apprentice in a union and I show up work hard and I’ve learned so much in my short time. I’ve never had any issues whatsoever. I’ve always been respected and taken care of by all my foremen and journeymen. I love that I know I’m doing something at no cost to me that can provide for my family.
That is awesome Andrew! I still tell people that getting into the union is a great thing to do. I think the education and the benefits make it worth it!
Hi Andrew. I just applied to the steamfitters union today. Hope I get accepted. I am hungry to learn this trade and gain experience. I enjoy the math involved with it too! Hope you finish the program!
Im about to apply to join when the apprenticeship opens back up. A have a journeyman that's a roommate. I'm excited. I'm female, though, so we'll see how that goes.
@@angeldark404 there is always a need male or female. We have a couple females in our local. Good luck hope it works out and you get in!!!
Was there ranking system? If so what was your rank after interview
Union carpenter for 36 years retired with a pension health and insurance . I own 4 houses. Thank you labor unions!
I rent them
No I have had some bad ones but you learn how to pick them, been doing this for 24 years
@@jackfarrell4727 I had the same question at first but after seeing that you rent them, that's actually really smart. I just hope you're good to your tenants. I've had a few bad landlords tbh.
@@TheDonSapius I am an excellent landlord I take very good care of my places. Thank you for your question
Alexander Ayers who cares if he’s a good or bad landlord? He was able to buy 4 houses by being a union carpenter which was the point...
You should do a video on the difference between plumbers and pipefitters
I got into the Electricians Union right out of highschool, did 5 years apprenticeship and just hit 25 years in the Union. I’ve be worked solid all these years. General Forman now running big work it’s been a great career!!
I left the union. But I would go back.
Why? Pretty simple.
UNION for commercial projects.
Non-UNION for residential services.
I want to own a residential plumbing company in the future but I’m barely looking into the trade, do you think it’s better to go non union since it’s more residential?
@@alexrodriguez-bd4pj non union for residential.
@@alexrodriguez-bd4pjbro from personal experience i would just go and join the union. Worked for 4 years in the non-union and from what Ive seen it’s a lot more fast paced for less pay and significantly less benefits. I just got into the union this week and while i did take a pay cut my journeyman and foreman have told me i don’t really know how good i have it until i’ll retire. Wanna make less go non-union, but wanna make $50+ and benefits go union well at least here in jersey, unions down south might pay less and have less work. You could always go on your own being in the union after you top out and decide to get your business/contractor’s license. Ive had some guys who had their own company tell me to just go union and work because they get old and have to be chasing work and checks which sucks but Ive also seen guys make very good money owning their own businesses but they’re not doing residential, they’re doing commercial/industrial or at the very least doing very high end custom homes
Hello. I'm curious as to why non union is better for residential. Also is most of "service" residential or commercial? Thank you in advance. @@TulanePass
@@mrharlemike28it’s not that it’s necessarily “better” for residential. It’s just that union skilled trades such as electric and plumbing tend to be on the commercial/industrial side of things. Non union tend to have a wayyy larger market share in residential
I'm a union plumber with local 75 out of Wisconsin. I didn't the bulk of my apprenticeship at a non union shop. Now, I can only speak for my personal experience but I saw more "good old boys" clubs in non union shops than I have in union shops. I think the decision weather to be union depends on each person's needs and wants. I enjoy your videos Roger. Keep up the good work.
I’m 118 out of Wisconsin as well, apprentice.
Wisconsin 118 apprentice as well. Union is the way to go
How much u make
Open shop, and it’s good ol boys everywhere
@Lord Marshall Consuelo Wubba tell them you voted blue and don’t vote blue 👍🏽
I am a Union HVAC Technician in Louisiana. The best thing about the hall in my opinion is how helpful it is to begin your adult life and try to do something with it. I’ve been in it for 7 years and I am grateful for where the hall has given me the steps I need to take in order for me to be successful.
Question is today would you make more money staying in the union or leaving the union?
@@jja7038knowing Louisiana. You best stay in Union if you want to live decently lol
I've been in service for 3 years, and my favorite part is that I'll work on everything from cups and springs all the way to big commercial heater replacements. Always different every day, and I work for a good company that really cares about me and my work.
Ok mike, I’m giving you your raise LoL
I was a union Sheetmetal worker for 4 years, During my 3rd year I was given a truck and a crew by the company and was running my own jobs making journeyman scale. A few journeyman had a problem with this and filed grievances. 2 months later I owed the union 10k or I would lose my job. I walked away, took a different path in life and I’m happy as can be. But the good old boys club has to go!
I also paid the appropriate dues for my pay scale.
I support unions still but I will never work for one again.
Something doesn't add up. I think you were 3rd year making journeyman wage was running crew full of other apprentices which means no journeyman. Ofcourse is kinda messed up because all companies would take advantage lay their journeymen off and hire cheap-o apprentices only. Your boss screwed you over and took advantage of you to stick it to union.
@@Holop88 Thing is, there wasn't any journeyman on the bench. I negotiated my own wage, Which is technically allowed. Required by the union is only a Minimum rate of which a 3rd-year apprentice gets paid.
Why would you own them money?
I'll be a 2nd year apprentice on feb.10th and so far I'm not complaining. School SUCKS right now because of Covid19 but I'm still not complaining, yet! I've heard good and bad. But right now I'm okay with everything. Thanks for your videos I've been watching them ever since I joined. (I'm the 2nd black female plumber in my local, I'm a living legend 😎)
Any tips for a starting apprentice? I’ll be applying to local 469
The bottom line for me is the money, where I’m at union wages are at $56 an hour total package, non union shops are twenty dollars less and no pensions maybe health care for the worker, as for union dues that twenty dollars an hour more makes up for the 2-3 thousand to be in the union
Nonyabisnus B I don’t disagree. It is wonderful for employees. I love the training.
Granted I don’t know what local you are in and what city but $56 and hour is probably just take home. You’re total package is probably close to double that
JRIDable ours is getting close to $50 total package. Well worth the union dues.
Roger Wakefield wow in Philadelphia our journeymen are making just under $60 take home and total package is close to double
We make 39.77 on the check. Our total package is 80+
I work hard. I’m smart. I applied with the union didn’t hear anything from them. Applied at a open shop learned from a master plumber, probably the best plumber in the metro area I live in (service plumber). Now the union leaders approach and want me to join. When asked about joining with no experience they said “you really need to know some one to get in”. The union needs to take a chance on guys. I am a successful service plumber with the house and car to prove it. I wouldn’t join the union now because it would be a pay cut. That good old boy or family member only mentality will be the end of the union.
"master plumber" lol sounds like something house plumbers use to make themselves smarter
That maybe lol
Currently, I'm a high school student in a 2 year course that gives me my first year of electrical
Hell yeah, you're ahead. Keep thinking about your future and get started early like you're doing. By the time you're 25 like me you'll be loving yourself for worrying about your future and getting your foot in the door early. Unlike me, just now getting started..
I've been in the UA for 15 years. Started out right out of high school. Got in as HVACR Tech. the decision I made as a young kid coming out of high school.
The pension and the benefits are great. Education is top notch. We have a different contract from the plumbers. We also do get holiday pay.
C. Rockhill congratulations! I think the union is great for employees. I loved it!
I have been a member of Local 94 insulators union since 2011. I have seen SEVERAL union folks do some pretty questionable work. Not all union folks are up to par, but some of us try to keep ourselves to the union standards. Good work can come from both union AND non union!!
Best video on this topic. Your experience you shared are the same as mine. Both the pros and cons. One big con left out that many guys experience is lay offs once the job is finished. Thank god I didn't have to experience that much myself.
Thanks for sharing Charles King! I didn't experience it much either.
Layoffs and Travel to where the work is...
I agree with almost everything you said except for what you brought up about people not being yelled at if they just do what they’re supposed to do. I was harassed CONSTANTLY at my last job because my management was jealous that I was in my early 20’s making the same money they made after 10 years of work. Being the youngest in any profession is so damn difficult. You get poked and poked and poked until you can’t handle it anymore and then when you say something you have become the entitled youth of the group.....it’s extremely stupid. And North Carolina is a right to work state so employers can do whatever they please to employees.....it’s bad for employees in this state....
Move to a non right to work state.
I am 100% UA. I has been incredibly awesome to me. I agree with a large portion of what you're saying, and I hope someone in the UA sees this and starts incentivizing members starting their own businesses.
Union sheetmetal apprentice. Best thing as of right now is the quality of education. And they’re still finding ways to improve and grow.
For some reason i had some weird sense of respect for tin bashers, even if they make alot of noise!
4th year plumbing apprentice here in Toronto. Wage is amazing, we work 36 hour work weeks, so we have every Friday off which is so amazing, gives more time to do side jobs🤑🤑
Is it a union job? I'm in Waterloo going to conestoga college for pre apprenticeship.
Helmut Koeckritz Local 46 Union yes!
Any advice for getting into plumbing in Ontario? I'm Canadian, about an hour and a half outside of Toronto.
@@sarahgardner8856 I live an hour outside of Toronto and knowing someone definitely helps, but keep applying your self to Local 46 . They have intakes every now and again!
@@zResi would it be a good idea to do a 8-12 week pre-apprenticeship programs before trying to join?
I'm out of UA Local 525 in Vegas.
I'm a licensed plumber, pipefitter, hold my rigging certs. Have worked service side, commercial, new construction, remodels, refineries, nuke plants, Etc.
There is great truth to what you shared in this video.
There are many that have very arrogant and condescending attitudes towards organized hands, book buyers, or rats as you mentioned.
I've worked alongside some amazingly skilled hands that cane from outside the union.
It amazes me how threatened some become when those from outside the union join the ranks.
There is no better time to come along side and embrace a new member, encouraging them with a genuine Brotherhood that is supposed to be what the Union is all about.
I've seen many of the good old boys, the cliques, the stubborn that refuse to evolve and grow into new ways, tools, technologies.
Too many that view the contractor as an enemy and not a partner.
No contractors = no employer
You nailed it in regards to the life changing benefits financially offered to the members.
As well as the challenge it creates for contractors to bid jobs.
Our local has two scales one for residential/service
The other for commercial/new construction
Finally trying to regain market share in the residential service sector.
Training is absolutely top notch and critical tio making oneself a valuable asset to the contractors and your union.
It is unfortunate that it is boom or bust when a Union hand. Yet a blessing with the great training, I'm able to travel to any local that is needing men to man the work.
While the open shop hands seem to have many options whether booming or not.
Solid arguments by you both pro and con.
They're not life changing, the health insurance sucks for what the union is. My dad had way better insurance years ago through his union than my union gives me now. It all depends where you are, here in the midwest you get fucked a lot
Union Steamfitter. The best thing is still the pension. I really appreciate the training, but like you said it can be hit or miss with the instructors.
@@jhonni7629 I can’t speak about plumbing vs pipefitting, but pipefitting and steamfitting are the same job. Steamfitting is a more antique term for it, as pipe fitters mostly worked with steam engines back in the day
Damn, this is kind of a shock. Im new to your channel and probably watched 20-30 bids, but def 1000% took you fpr a union guy thru and thru
I think if you're in construction union is the way to go. Service on the other hand is dominated by non-union work and that's how it should be. Service is where the money is.
Roger you are doing a amazing job with this channel. Thank you
De Tee thank you! We are having fun and sharing knowledge...
I started non union and brought the skills and speed to the table. Capital Plumbing and Heating was the best. Shout out to Ron,Jack and Mark more power to Capital. Rat means we work fast and efficient.
started at tristate
I got into the plumbers and steamfitters union in So. Cal right out of High school in the early 80's. I graduated a 5 year apprenticeship program. I stayed a member for 13-1/2 years. I tried to stay educated and be more employable by getting as many extra cards and certificates through Journeyman classes to expand my knowledge. Plumbing, steam fitting, high purity piping systems for microchip industry, medical gas piping, orbital welding, etc. I always showed up on time, worked hard, and got things done. Having gone through all of that I still rarely worked year round. I only hade 9-1/2 years pension credits after 13-1/2 years membership. Never enough work for everybody to stay employed. Too much non union competition. I tried traveling to sister locals to stay working and never got hired on. Got the same answer at all of them, "we don't have enough work for our own let alone outside members". After several years not being able to work I had to quit and go non union. The union kept my hard earned 9-1/2 years pension credits because the rule was it took 10 years to be vested. Now years later I'm disability retired at 58 and I could really use that money. Bottom line, the unions want to own your soul.
Damn that sucks, sorry to hear that brother
same thing in the operating engineers graduated the apprenticeship and went to all the extra classes and the contractors told me the i didnt have enough experience would work about 5 months out of the year got vested thank god but at 48 i cant keep doing this just changed careers and wont be going back again worked mostly august sept and october then layed off till april keep getting told you need more training and you go and get the training and they tell you need more training go get your cdl and still nothing its all the same for everyone dude who makes it in the union till retirement 9 others dont unions no different from a temp agency just pays better way better you werent the only one brother
Is Union plumbing a bad idea at age 32 wife an 3 kids? Is it too risky due to lay offs to try an get in? Also here in Indiana Local 440 does anyone know union dues?
I'm not familiar with that Union and the price....but 32 is a great age to get into the trades...sooner rather than later!
For the culture point, I love my union for that. everyone is always open for new ideas and new technology while still being old school
I'm a UA plumber and pipefitter. It's really the only way to earn a decent living to support a family including retirement and Healthcare. Non-union will never pay you even close, respect you the same, or teach you as much. Honestly I went non union for a few years and could barely survive. Greedy people who take advantage of their men who are just happy to be working. Just my experience
My experience is the same… I’ve never been in a union I’m gonna apply here soon. It was hell just getting the hours but i finally got my residential license so here go union service plumbing baby
Thanks for insight
I'm a non union residential new construction plumber, best part is there is ALWAYS work. There's more work than all of the plumbers can Actually produce. Just in one house alone you can do the underground, gas, vents, top soil, and potable water. So imagine if the job has 15-20 houses! 💰💰💰
After watching "Right to Work" fights, seeing what happened to GM (my grandfather retired from there. When asked what he did, "when I'm tired, I pull a piece of cardboard and take a nap), and the whole black balling thing, I'm not really interested in unions.
Member of 449 here. The residential market is a hard to use union. Your bread and butter is industrial work and maintenance contracts but it depends how your local is set up. If you're in a combination local of plumbers and pipefitters its easy to find those types of work opportunities. Pipe is pipe. If you're just a streamline local you get into jurisdiction disputes.
Master plumber here ...35 years in Local 364 in SoCalif. Didn't learn a thing in my apprenticeship....What else ya wanna know?
I can only speak for me personally, my union (local 68) has been great for me. As a service plumber, I believe I would not of had the success I have now without the apprentice program or the many additional classes they offer. Ultimately however I think it just comes down to what works for each person individually.
BlackBird I love the union. Local 68 is great. I think they actually train service. My local still doesn’t and that’s part of what killed me. I was once an instructor in the UA. I think the training program is wonderful if you have the right people running it at the local level. If not... you get what you get.... Good luck down in Houston it’s a great place to be a plumber.
Just joined local 68 seems like the union has a high success rate
@@austinstarke4316 Glad to here. It goes by quickly, as hard as that is to believe at the start.
In Chicago I am a non union shop for 20 years and have always believed in quality work no matter what. Recommend by many local villages . But in the city itself the inspectors are told to fail our inspections before they even leave the office . Unoin reps on my jobs tell me to not keep full time employees,never been a big fan.
What's the beat you used when talking?
HVAC/R local 166. I've enjoyed the opportunity to work in bigger facilities than I had outside of the union.
John McMaster the biggest and best jobs I did were in the union...
all reasons I had put the open shop plumbing apprenticeship higher on my list of hopefuls to get into than the union one
As growing up in a pro labour union family (local 183) with a sister with a disability the benefits are amazing for employees but as a business owner I could see where there's some negativity towards unions
If you wanna get in the union, know someone.
I'm a long time IBEW member. Very upset with there political views! They should focus on the craft not campaign contributions. Great video sir!
UA 290 myself. I take probably 100 hours of continuing Ed every year through my union for free. The dues are well worth it. Also, my monthly dues are 35 dollars a month plus maybe $1.50 an hour while I’m working. I total package is $97 an hour with $58 an hour on the check. I worked nonunion and the biggest difference to me in the safety practice. Saftey is what make sure I get home each night, I have desire to work o nonunion
I’ve worked union and non union as a service plumber. Being union doing service work you don’t have time to give customers a good experience. In and out because my total package was costing the company almost 100 per hour. As a service plumber non union I have time to do things how I want. Provide excellent customer service and do it right by not killing myself. So I would rather work non union because I’m not being pressured or my wage being held over my head.
It only take a second to give good customer service. I call bs on this. Yeah sure maybe you don't have time to go into details with customer, however i doubt an open shop would be ok with you spending the same amount of time.
Dre Day maybe you haven’t experienced the situation? I joined local 130 in July of 2019. Was placed with a company and was told I was moving too slow countless times. They laid me off on Halloween the same year. Was denied unemployment. In December of 2019 Christmas Eve I went to work for a non union company. It’s august 2020 and still working for the same company. Have several social media reviews and the company loves me. I still pay union dues and pay for my health insurance through the union. My point is the union only cares about how much you make for the company and how fast you do it. They talk about how everyone are brothers and sisters and how they have your back. It’s all bullshit. I haven’t received 1 phone call from the hall since I was laid off. They have to know I’m working non union and they don’t care because I’m still paying union dues.
If I complete my apprenticeship in California and receive my journeyman license, can I transfer to a different union in another state like Nevada or Texas?
Miguel Barajas yes you can, if they are needing help. You will have to check with them...
I think Nevada had has reciprocity with California. However, some sates do not, I am a Plumbing Contractor in California and moved to Idaho and had to do a lot of work once there proving. I first had to reapply for the Journeyman and take all of the tests once I obtained that I had to do the same thing to become a contractor again. Process took about a year. I guess at least now because of reciprocity with states I have the whole western sea board covered.
Kevin Bergstrom thank you for the information!
I am a fan and have watched a lot of your videos but this one just popped up in my feed and I HAD to see what your opinions on Unions are.
here are some quotes that I simply wanted to address from my perspective:
"I would rather see a way that I can pay them a lower amount, and incentivize them..."
I understand you said that you wanted to incentivize your employees, but the first part of that sentence is what perks the ears of union members.
Lower wages and raises for doing a better job is literally how most business would say they operate today, but if you look at the numbers, companies without a union, even with "incentives" almost always pay less than a company with a union simply because there is nobody to stop the company without a union from continuing to dwindle pay and reducing the incentives.
"you are liable to get blackballed or told we really don't need you around anymore you're doing too good of a job"
This is one issue that I always had contention with when I was in a union, the issue isn't that they simply fire someone for doing a good job, but if the person is doing so much more than quota it can cause a huge issue with work flow and even job security. my first job was not a union job and I worked hard and busted hump every day under the promise that "There will always be more work" but the truth was that two months before the contract was due I was laid off because the contract was completely fulfilled two months early, this made the company I worked for very happy and it made the customer very happy and left me out of work for two months. While I understand this seems unfair to the company to deliberately not work as hard as I can, I thought it was unfair to lay me off for two months because I had worked so hard to get the quota met. The only difference is that the company made their money regardless of the timetable and I had to settle with the unemployment pay I was getting until I could find a new job.
"There is no growth plan"
"why aren't unions trying to get everyone to join?" I thought when I first joined a union. The truth is that companies will literally close down businesses to avoid a union forming and it ultimately is up to the employees if they want to form or join a union, so beyond pamphlets and advertising there is little that they can do.
I was a plumber in local 690 and hated it honestly it was to Political for me a lot of favoritism and extra BS that I did not agree with so now I work for a private company after resigning from the union and I’m happier than I ever been but being in the union and the plumber I am today which is a very good very proficient plumber so I did get some growth from being in the union that much I can say
The best part of being a plumber is I own the knowledge in my head and i can sell it for whatever price i want.
I'm interested in entering the plumbing trade and stumbled upon your channel. Good eye contact and speaking. I am currently working as a Drain Tech and hurt my back lifting a heavy snake and got no loss pay from my employer via WCB. I'm looking towards going to find a plumber who's a journeyman/red seal certified. I hear when working under an actual plumber you don't have lift 100 lb equipment, is there anything else I should be aware of before I take the "plunge" (plumber's pun) into plumbing?
2nd year bta. I work for a small mechanical outfit. Medically retired from the military, went through the VIP and came straight into the union a couple weeks after I was discharged.
Ive got my gripes about the local, but all in all, I've got it pretty good.
The work ethic from the military carried over into the building trades seamlessly, and I'd recommend it to any other vet that still wants to work with their hands.
The so called "Brotherhood" in the local is extremely subjective, but there's definitely some guys that'll watch your back if they see that you work hard.
I love it, and I appreciate it for what it is.
I worked in a grocery store and we were union. My wages and benefits would have been substantially less (Walmart pay and benefits) if it weren't for the union.
I quit working for the grocery store after we went on strike for a month and a half. We made money to be on the picket lines but way less. We had a bit of public support in the beginning. I started seeing the customers I was so nice to cross our line.
When the strike was over, I quit. I couldn't bring myself to be nice to the customers who crossed.
I worked for Kroger's for 9 years and earned a little pension.
I then became a plumber!
Customer who crossed? LMAO I wouldnt care if the workers were striking either. I will go to the store that has the lowest prices regardless. That was YOUR fight not theirs.
The problem with my local union is i need NEED to be home every night i dont have a problem working 15 hours a day but i have 4 kids i gotta be a dad for so my local union does all their work very far away from home and i dont have time for that
I agree, I’m have been worked both. I’m non Union now. In my opinion a good majority of people in the union are stuck in the past. I have met a lot of good people in the union and non union. I think it just comes down to the persons character and doing the right thing.
I've found most HVAC guys only do one of two things, sell you new or charge double if you just want it fixed.
Prevailing wages are not entirely "your money".
I’m a commercial service plumbers helper here in nyc. It is possible for me to attend the training center/ school while not being in the union or staying in my job? I enjoy the company where I work at but I want to get as much education as possible even if it comes out of my own pocket. Is it possible?
Eli2Fly I don't think they will let you do that. The union doesn't want to train their competition.
Union 142. Biggest flaw is I didn’t have a choice on plumbing or pipe fitting. I want to be a plumber but they assigned me to the pipe fitting side. Will be like that for the first couple years…
Get out while you still can and go non union.
@@brunomatassini9879 why should I? Give me reasons
@@XDIRTY_TAMALEX Well I'm not sure how you local operates but in my experience if you're good at your job you can do far better non union. Better pay, better benefits, and better work environment. In your case, they don't even have you doing the trade you actually want to be doing. I don't know how good your instructors are or how good the courses are but my local had a basically non existent education where we basically just had to show up and the instructor collected his check, didn't learn a single thing in my class time.
@@brunomatassini9879you left? I just went union and I know if you leave there’s a contract I signed and have to pay the union for leaving
I remember a union guy who told me the union was going to upgrade their old typewriting machine. They decided not to move forward because they feared the old employee would have a hard time learning and may lose hours.
So yes unions are good in keeping jobs but they prevent advancement in trades and productivity. Sometimes there needs to be a balance.
Makes me wonder if the automobile companies were dragged down by the union.
How do you get into the plumbers union if you’re already in the trade ?
Usually you can call up your local UA Local and talk to them. I’ve seen that happen a lot.
Could you make a vid teaching how to locate sewer lines I’ve been trying to learn at work but people keep hating on me?
i really doubt theyre "hating" on you 🤣🤣🤣
D see more hate 😂
@@jdcisneros9023 sure kid sure
Hey guy
Yes I will. Some plumbers don't know how to. Always keep learning. It will help you in the long run.
I'm trying to join the UA union (3rd year non-union) apprentice... but every one says work isn't stable and I'll be sol... idk what to do about this crap and currently kinda unhappy with my current sercumstance
I'm applying to become an apprentice with my local union and they said the starting pay is 18 an hr then 36 an hr with benefits. Don't really understand the pay scale. Do I make 18 an hr or 36?
You'll get paid 18/hr on your check minus whatever percentage the union snatches up, the higher number is just an inflated rate that's meant to get you excited, doesn't mean anything and you'll never see that money.
I’m a first year apprentice in Indiana. Non-union. Anybody know if non-union apprenticeships transfer to union?
You made some great points on how being in a union is beneficial to the worker and I wouldn't argue with that. But I would like add some perspective.
Union are not beneficial for guys who are non union. Not only are they not beneficial it can sometimes be detrimental to your business. Unions and union shops hate to see non union guys succeed. We lost some very high end jobs because the unions found out and made sure we didn't get the contract just because we weren't union. Unions claim to be all about the worker but only if the worker belongs to their club. If you're not a card carrying member then screw you. That's just my personal experience. It may not be that bad down in Texas or others areas of the country but it is in mine.
I prefer integrity and ethics over money and benefits.
The point of a union is to protect the worker by ensuring fair pay and benefits. Non union shops undercut their workers in order to save on labor costs, thus being able to bid lower on projects. The shop still makes the same amount of money, their workers get shafted.
If the unions wage was the same as the non-union wage, then the non-union wage would drop even lower.
@@dcross446 That's not true. Most times you get paid based on your productivity. You must not be good.
@@DonJosesito I've worked union and non union. That's what the unions tell you. I made more money non union.
@@JustinL614 "You must not be good" You don't know me. How ignorant to make such a statement.
Thank you for the information
4th Year Apprentice UA 469- Best thing for me is plethora of training opportunities from the apprenticeship
I will be applying for the apprenticeship, any tips?
@@martinezelmy88 Show up every day, and apply yourself. Ask questions when you do not understand something. If you end up working with people with negative attitudes do your best to learn what not to do from them.
Retired vet moving to Texas in 3 months. Love working with tools and out doors. How can I find an apprentice job with a union?
Plumbing for over 30 years and worked in and out of the Union. My Union scale now is $30.48 with $42.48 total package ( including benefits). Worked for Non Union shop for 6 years $30 an hour zero benefits. While working for the Non Union shop I collected directly from the customer who was charged $89 just for me showing up and $160 an hour for my labor. At the least I made over $1,200.00 a day and have collected over $6000 in one day. Done a water service in one day with less than $100 material and $600 labor. We charged book prices on that job and I collected $6000 that afternoon. If a Non Union shop says they can't match what the Union gives to their plumbers they are nothing more than greedy. I left the Non Union shop and they're about to lose another very good plumber to the Union because of greed. I've done all the up sale on jobs. Talked owners into repipes, going tankless and more but NOTHING for me but my wages. Non Union shops are basically saying I'll use you to get rich without one single drop of sweat.
I’m a Texas master plumber and I am not in the union. I do believe in training and education. I have licensed plumbers working under me and I strive to help make them better by sharing my experience and teaching them about the mistakes I made and how to avoid them. Your videos are very informative and I believe in what you are doing.
Thank you sir. I appreciate that. What part of Texas are you in?
Roger Wakefield I’m in the dfw. I friended you on Facebook as Michael Branham.
bigmike2000mb what path should I take to become a Master Plumber
EchoNubb Gaming you have to become an apprentice by getting hired at a plumbing company. Then it takes 4 years and 48 hours of training to get to take the journeyman test. Hold your journeyman license for 4 years and then apply for the master license test. Anywhere from 8-10 years total. I have been a plumber for 16 years now.
Hi Roger,
Thanks for posting. I do like the points you gave pro and con for Unions.
Unions across the board have been taking it on the chin the past few years. They can only blame themselves.
Un
I'm not here to pass judgement. Union membership has very nice benefits. It will help keep food on your table and a roof over your head. We are all individuals who are free to make our own choices. You want to work hard and safely be respectful to your employer and co workers way to go.
Its not how much money you make its how much you save.
Personal income is personal (private) you want to put your private business on the street go right ahead.
I'm am thankful for what I have.
Local 94 Operating Engineers
Thank you for collective bargaining. Let's be respectful of all. (Plumbers crack included) Very few are born with that. :)
Michael Brennan I believe in the union. If they did some things differently they could own the trades in the US. I wish they would. I am just making points here that it’s not all peaches and cream. I made the choice to be a union contractor when I started my company. Now I make the choice not to be.
@@RogerWakefield Thank you Roger. Yes. I takes a true determination to start your own company. Most small companies cannot survive under the by-laws of what union members are entitled to.
I have heard a story of a HVAC company that to close shop due to their union card holding members refused to work at a specific job location. (Wth??)
I would find it VERY difficult to run my own mechanical business.
I've seen good and bad on both sides of this debate.
I knew I was a little short on the mechanical end so I decided to get a 4 year college degree. (BS Organizational Leadership)
I could not sit behind a desk all day. I like to trouble shoot and make repairs.
Here in NYC the labor unions have felt the effects of open markets. Its such a back/forth. I come from a Union family unfortunately one word of advice my Dad (RIP) told me is that the unions tend tk protect the trouble makers. Gives the rest of the union members a bad name.
Be well Roger and work safe.
Hello Texas!!
You, having been a Union contractor should know that none of your money goes to the “union”. All the contributions you made went to your employees as fringe benefits, it’s part of their pay. It’s something you agreed to pay when you signed the agreement. The salaried officers are paid by the members, not you. This whole rant seems to come from someone who had a personal problem with union management. I ran a local Union for many years and the accusations you make are not facts, just your perception. We represented over 80 contractors and none of them left at the end of a contract. PAC fund contributions are voluntary, any member can opt out. The Union does not “pay off” any politician, they make contributions to political parties or candidates, all of which are highly regulated and scrutinized as a matter of election law. Any organization that you belong to, like the NRA or AARP does the same thing. You are simply mistaken on many points, seems like you have an agenda. You do a disservice to your viewers by misleading them.
frank pellegrino Your spot on!!!
Wrong. It's obvious you're not a union contractor.
JustinL614 read the post. I was the Business Manager of a local plumbers union, not a contractor.
@@JustinL614 just saying "wrong" doesnt automatically make it your way...its obvious you have zero marketable skills
frank pellegrino it’s not a personal problem. It is a good business decision. The things I talked about are facts from here. I did sign the contract and did exactly what I was supposed to do. There are things that weren’t done on the other side. Look, I am a union member that started my own company and wanted to be union. I believe in the system. It just is not a good thing for a small residential service company to do here. My union doesn’t train service or residential so they could not give me hands that work. I’ve been trying to make it better for 5 years.... It just does not work. And I am being 100% honest and transparent with my viewers as I always am.
Anyone have insign in local 211 i keep seeing "slow" "layoff" and "short jobs"
Hey Roger, journeyman service mechanic here. Which local would you recommend in TX? I’m trying to figure out which market is best for hvac service.
I'm at a point where I'm looking to apply for union in kansas (plumber and pipe fitter).. anybody know or give me couple of comments on it??
As a steamfitter and plumber which are different trades up here my local 496 we always have to repair non unions work. With all those great skills picked up from building non union maybe wouldn’t have the problems your having in Texas now. Open shops brought poor skilled fitters and plumbers doing fitting which have been breaking unions bringing down wages . Since Reagan it doesn’t matter which party there both currupt. Sold everyone out a long time ago with his trade deals. Saying you can’t compete because of wages sounds alot like saying you can’t compete with China and there labour laws. All of North America has been losing the standard of living with that thinking.
I think that the Unions were first created to protect the workers from bad bosses/owner, unsafe conditions, and get a way to talk with bosses/owners.
IMO, we really need that in the world because they are meant keep the bad bosses/owners in check, stop bad laws, and help maintain a good standard. Unions also help the people at the top to know what's going on and how the workers are doing.
Unions have, in general, gotten corrupt, greedy, and forgot what they are supposed to be doing but that can only really be done from the inside from the bottom up.
A good, healthy, and successful business requires a symbiotic relationship between the owner/boss and the workers. The owner needs the worker just as much as the worker needs the owner.
Idk where your located but it’s def a big difference in pay for union vs non union
Journeyman from open shop to the local nearly doubled my hourly rate plus the Bennie's and. Best thing short of running my own shop. The bureaucracy is a different story...
I'll gladly pay dues to have somebody helping me find work.
Been non union for 8 years and union 7 years. Biggest difference is non union shop will pay you competitive wage to begin with but couple years passes by and you fall behind because no scheduled raises then before u know it its 3 4 5 years passes by and you realize your buddy at union doing same work and making 25k more than you do so you uncomfortably demand a raise or threat to quit they sit down and give you a raise 4-8k raise but not nearly 25k raise because instead of gradually giving raises throughout the year like union does. Company is never financially ready to give one tremendous raise. Then in 10 years you realize you making half of what union worker makes. Also when you start making decent money watch the co workers who are content with being underpaid get better jobs than you because they make more money for the company. I also know billing for both non union and union shops there is no difference in labor rates and mark up prices. Per every billable hour union boss keeps about 25-30% and non union boss 60-65%
You got the the name wrong the UA is the fitters and welders union. Plumbers aren't looked at as humans in most locals.
Wow Roger you nailed this one right on brotha I couldn’t agree more
Joshua Ferreira I have people contact me everyday about getting into the union. Both contractors and hands. I am being 100% honest and transparent here. I like the union, it's just not for everyone. Especially smaller contractors.
As an ex-union member. I know it was the unions (mostly the SEIU) that pushed for the $15 pay scale. With many SEIU scales at $15 to $20 an hour. It wasn't long we are hear every SEIU wanting to up their contracts. Saying they don't get paid enough.
Union is a great deal. Got in when I was 20 and it was a great decision, not perfect but would highly recommend
Very much agree. For a young guy starting out. The only thing i dont thing you would get going union is cross training between trades. In my 20yrs as a skilled trades person ive been able to do construction and service doing plumbing hvac and refrigeration. I do not think i would have gotten as broad of experience from a union job. On the flip side i would likely have better retirement
Im making 86 dollars an hour average per job over in FL as a plumber no union... But mobed up. Never thought I would be making money like this.
Wow I live in Florida and I have never seen that.. Where are you in Fl.?
Union Journeyman Plumbers in Las Vegas make $53.25/hr
Open shop owners refuse to pay over $35.
The growth part is obejectively the biggest issue since unions are conservative from change. I mean we need to be bigger and open up to ideas that helps everyone.
Was a local union 1 of bricklayer. Now tell me what this president did for the union and the member's
In South Jersey we call people who came up in an open shop then turn Union a clear in
Hey I’m looking to get into the plumbing field but I really just wanna get into the trade to do my own residential thing would you recommend I join the union or go to a paid school?
Someone please tell me what it means to be "Black Balled"? He didn't go into enough detail, I think I have an idea from the context but still not sure.
Not a plumber, but we have it in the fashion industry too. Black Balled or Black Listed means they don't work with you. They don't supply you, they don't order from you, they don't link to you on websites, they don't advertise or reccomend you, etc.
An epic example:
Now I saw this more from suppliers and occasionally from local clubs since there isn't really a union anymore for our sort of retail [it died in the 80's]. I worked with all small family businesses supplied by bridge fashion [not couture runway or discount, but the bridge between - like Coach bags, affordable by upper middle class] that sold professional women's suits and fancy party/formal dresses. This one shop undercut on price for a certain brand. I'm talking taking a loss on the wholesale price before even including the shipping cost for the product on a bridge line and my CEO sent the print advertisement to our supplier's rep. I'm thinking this shop was hoping to get more of the customers to their boutique by luring them in with an insane deal on a small item, but we all signed the same contract and bridge brands are very wary of losing their status and becoming discount level. No advertisement for in season merchandise below a certain price is allowed. It ruined their reputation.
In a week suppliers (who tend to have have "find a store" features for their prom and formal lines that are massively important these days) started to cut them off like they never existed. Some of the other shops in the area must have called up the magazine and local paper because all their ads stopped running. Even the local PTA didn't include them in their prom shopping guide the next year, and it got back to me that they "couldn't in good conscience reccomend a business with that sort of owner."
I probably don't have to say they closed pretty quick.
Union dues are not much for earning 40%+ more than non union, pension, benefits, 4 day weeks, double pay after 36 hours, the list goes on.
Why are the unions not growing? They do not want to . Why would they. Producing more union members can be counter productive. It's about supply and demand. Increasing the supply of tradesmen reduces their value. Artificial scarcity is part of the union business model. Unions by their nature traffic in monopolizing labor.
I live around the block from the union hall 3 times I applied and was denied. I scored 98 on the test, have no drink, drugs, gambling or woman problems. I had been in the trade for years, and I was really impressed by the shop and wanted to make a career there "You're not what we're looking for'. On the way out, I was told to consider hiring guys from the hall ( I am licensed with my own business ) How does one respond to that ? I have a few students that are members, and sometimes I think the erasers are smarter than them.
I'm still pro union, but I'm convinced run by dopes.
Union, journeyman plumber. The structure is the best part of the UA in my option. The employee hand book for instance.
Dues and paying for the apprenticeship is part of your package so it doesnt effect your actual take home pay which is way more then non union
Can you do some videos on how to fix water heaters and how to fix a faucets
do any other U.A locals offer piece work or is it just local 46