Route 12 should go down La trobe, I think the govt are waiting for the big tram redraw once the metro tunnel opens, to say the works are because of the tunnel not because it was always possible.
Realigning route 12 to La Trobe St does not consider the frequency of service to North Richmond which would effectively be halved for practical purposes. Waiting time during the day in Collins St is 4 mins to North Richmond, this would become 8 mins if route 12 ran down La Trobe St. The reason for the 4 min service is heavy loading. Before the mid-1980s there used to be a 6 min service to Deepdene, this was reduced to 8 mins for budget reasons. Route 12, which used to run to West Preston, was sent to North Richmond to plug up the gap in service on that busy section. I would suggest an alternative plan would be to restore the City Circle to its original route along Spencer St. The City Circle was only diverted to Docklands for political reasons to try and bring some life to an area that was a planning disaster. It would be more useful going past the railway station rather than the Q shaped route to an area nobody wants to go to and which is already served by other routes. Also, the siding in Albert Rd which is today, as you say, used for Grand Prix was actually installed for footy trams when the South Melbourne footy team had Lakeside oval as their home ground before they nicked off to Sydney. The siding at Albert Park Beach was put in for the same reason. Some other historic fun facts: before 1953 both tram routes at Park and Clarendon Sts turned the corner, the Fitzroy St line ran via Swanston St to East Coburg and the South Melb Beach line ran via Collins St to East and West Preston. And the terminus at Fizroy St used to be in Beaconsfield Pde. One block before the present terminus trams turned down Mary St and then into Beaconsfield Pde. There was a double track connection there and some summer Sunday services would continue through to Luna Park. The line used to be run by South Melbourne Depot in Kingsway before it was relocated to the present day Southbank Depot.
The south part of Route 12 was also the route the tramcar restaurant used. I think on occasion it may have used the curve to join 96 down to acland st but not when i was on it.
Travelling from South Melbourne to St Kilda on the 12 is such a calming experience. Depending on tram 109 spacing, travelling on the 12 from Victoria Gardens to the city can be a nightmare. How many years has it been running? Still people seem puzzled at being turfed off the tram at Victoria Gardens, expecting it to continue on.
Having travelled on the route in the process of filming, I agree that the trip from South Melbourne to St Kilda is indeed very calming. As for how long the route has been running, the current Route 12 has been running since 2014.
I preferred the old 112 myself! It was a handy northsidesouthside option that didn't require changing in the city. Another weird route is the 16. A good route should be one where you could potentially have a reason to travel the entire length of it, or a big portion of it at least, but nobody would EVER want to go from Kew to Melbourne Uni via St Kilda - the 16 just doesn't make sense.
I completely agree with all of that! As a St Kilda local I used to get the 112 if I went out to Brunswick St or places like that, it was really handy. There are a lot of reasons people would travel from the inner-south to the inner-north & vice versa since both are nightlife hotspots. The 96 does this well linking St Kilda & South Melbourne to Carlton, Carlton North & Brunswick East; and the 112 was a very complimentary route in linking St Kilda & South Melbourne to Fitzroy, Northcote & Preston. Considering the Route 78 pretty much already links St Kilda to North Richmond (despite the signage saying "Balaclava" the southern terminus is in fact in St Kilda), it seems a bit redundant have a second route travel from St Kilda to North Richmond but just via a much less efficient route. My suggestion would have been to retain the 112, and perhaps just extend the 78's northern terminus to Victoria Gardens. As for the 16, that is definitely a strange route. It does have some use, because people may need to travel from St Kilda or Balaclava up to suburbs like Malvern, Hawthorn & Kew. I actually used to get the 16 to commute from St Kilda to Hawthorn when I worked in Hawthorn. However, I can't actually imagine that anybody would ever need to travel from the city to Kew via St Kilda like you say. As at least a small improvement, the 16 & 3 could swap their routes through St Kilda: - The 3 could be the one that detours via the beach; - The 16 could be the one that continues straight through the middle of St Kilda on St Kilda Road That provides 2 benefits: 1. The much longer route (the 16) is taking the shortest route through St Kilda; 2. It would add low floor trams to the stretch of St Kilda Road between the Junction & Carlisle St, which is entirely accessible stops but is currently only serviced by non-accessible trams from Glen Huntly Depot. The larger B-Class trams on the Route 3 would also add capacity to the St Kilda Beach area, without having to take a service off the St Kilda Road stretch for the weekend like the 3A used to do. While the beach area is more of a destination, St Kilda Road services a lot more St Kilda residents so I never liked the idea of the 3A on weekends. Simply swapping the 3 & 16 around would address issues of both capacity to St Kilda Beach and accessibility on St Kilda Road while keeping 2 routes running along St Kilda Road 7 days a week (the 67 & 16).
That makes a lot of sense - might be worth suggesting that to PTV! I've written to them before and they do forward feedback to the right people to investigate (though whether they act on it is another matter)@@JesusManera
Good point about the 16, having a route that basically does one massive u-turn around the suburbs is quite odd, and the fact that it also crosses other tram routes which take a more direct route into the city makes it useless if you want to go to the city from Kew. However, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't travel huge portions of Route 16 to get to places, and it is quite useful for people travelling down Glenferrie Road.
@@tekkies-transport the u-turn shape makes a unique occurrence on hawthorn road with route 64. The citybound directions for routes 16 and 64 are in opposite directions
96's MSAC Stop is just 125 metres from 12's Mills St Stop at Canterbury Rd, but only be for to/from Danks St/Park St, & are 4 other easy options going from CBD to St Kilda Beach. Taking Route 12 off Collins would increase passenger congestion a lot. Need the 4 routes along there. You'd have to increase frequency in the other 3 routes services, so wouldn't reduce tram congestion. Also just increasing tram frequency in other 3 routes along Collins St may not be enough to cater for passengers numbers. The #48 was re-routed (in 2014?) to along Collins St to provide additional services there. To provide a continuous tram journey along Spencer St I'd consider putting the #48 back to Flinders St turning north into Spencer St. Like it once used to. Putting the #48 to Flinders would also provide more trams to footy & events in Jolimont. Or I'd consider putting current Route 70/Central Pier trams to turn into Spencer St instead, & increase frequency of Route 75/Waterfront City trams. Other thing i'd consider is a Shuttle Service (akin to the #30 Shuttle) running long Latrobe St to/from Marvel Stadium, along Spencer St and Flinders St, along Exhibition St Extension (named to Batman Ave several years ago); With services terminating at Melbourne Park (Rod Laver Arena, etc area) where Special Events trams/services now terminate. To have a permanent services for to Events, since there are many with 5 venues there, would be good.
There are less complexities at intersections (St Vincent's south-bound left turn is always congested, and the southern cross station south/east turn delays the signal) plus the other routes could all carry more capacity easily.
@@ultrajaywalker hi my comments were only in respect to his suggestions he said in the video, with him saying to take the #12 off Collins St, & what I would consider, if so. As I wouldn't take the #12 off Collins St, nor (unlikely*) put the #48 back to Flinders St & along all of Spencer St to Latrobe St, a lot of what i said I wouldn't do anyway, if I was doing tram network re-routes/overhaul. Except for Marvel Stadium/Victoria Harbour Shuttles to Melbourne Park being created (& that doesn't relate to what he said nor my comments re if #12 was taken off Collins St Your comment has "less complexities at intersections"; did you mean other complexities as you go on to describe issues at SCS stop, & St Vincent Plaza, or would be less complex to do re-routes at those 2 places? Changing routes where there's already turn tracks (& are re all my comment/suggestions) are no more complex. As I don't get trams in morning peak hour - but I do evening peak - through St Vincent's Plaza, I never seen more than 2 trams at, or 1 at, & 1 coming into that stop. Left turns from Victoria Pde into Gisborne Macarthur St are only delayed due to being 3 intersections being controlled/sequenced in the road traffic lights sequences. There's no delays caused by the trams, As soon as a CBD bound tram has loaded at south stop, it moves ahead from it, & waits at the traffic light. Only issue is if tram is waiting at west-bound roadway of Victoria Pde, to cross it, & 109, 12, 11 comes in to the Platform. Tram has to wait till next cycle, to be able to go through. (Trams get 2 "goes" there in one full cycle of the traffic lights, by the way. I've stood at the stop & watched the tram/track light and traffic lights). As for turn from Collins St, into Spencer St to go south (& only 2 routes trams), putting the 12 via Latrobe St-Spencer St wouldn't make any difference re time for it, or 109 to get through the intersection. Barely, at least. The #11 got it's own Outbound Platform at St Vincents, so more trams could come in there at same time, & so as #11 would block the other routes and vice versa. May not be room for it but a separate outbound platform & splitting from the other tracks (like at St Vincents) is something I'd consider
@@CityBeatEntertainme5 I meant removing turns at those intersections to reduce signal cycle length and reduce overall complexity at those intersections (for all traffic, tram/private vehicle/pedestrian). As a user of morning peak city-bound route 11 services, almost every day without fail the trams leaving Brunswick St always get stuck and wait at least one entire cycle to get into St Vincents. I have waited in trams that have waited three entire signal cycles, and those are not short cycles let me tell you. You are right, the trams can wait at the turn signal but the stop still doesn't fit another full low-floor (or if it does the morning drivers are not doing it and I'm not sure why) BUT there is a much greater length of time that trams can through run straight through Victoria Pde so it would almost eliminate that issue. 11s heading in the opposite direction have a whole other dedicated turning track and these run fine in my experience. "A tram turning, waiting at the westbound road lanes to go into Gisborne St does not block the #30 from going through" - as far as I'm aware all low-floor trams block the through-running trams if turning due to their length. Concerning SCS, that turn signal does add a massive wait and wastes a lot of precious time in the morning peak when you add it up, and having 12s run straight with ped and vehicle traffic would do wonders.
@aoipe I don't think there's any C-Classes (C1 or C2) at all, but unless you know tram number(s) of the C2's you won't spot since livery is same as C1s (& Ds & Es). As you know they're called C2s here, you may know Bumblebee Orange livery was changed a decade ago. After being bought outright in 2012-13, after being leased for use Melbourne as were surplus to the demand in Mulhouse, then. Apparently. Numbers for the C2s are: C2 5103, C2 5106, C2 5111, C2 5113, C2 5123. (just have number, not the C2, on them, just put that if you'd like to google any). As the 5 Bumblebees were excess to Mullhouse's needs at the time, Do you need some trams back, now? You're welcome to have some D-Class ones lol. Yeh, D's were built in a country next to France, but is only 5km from Mullhouse, & is close enough lol to sending them back 🙃. I & some friends reckoned Bumblebees looked great, & are good ones to travel on.
@@CBM_Walks As the finances for our extension was canceled back then we don’t need them back. I will always recognize them because of their custom made head with the inclined side-windows. Btw, the next country to Mulhouse is 18km away- Germany - and 35 to Switzerland. Have you noticed that every Bumblebee had a different design (color)? Here the numbers have been the same, just in the 2000 instead of your 5100.
Bonjour! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I did actually manage to film a C2 Class tram, as they do run down Spencer Street. I was pretty lucky to get footage of one, as they are only 5 of them here in Melbourne, and they only run on Route 96.
My idea is to merge route 30 with route 78 and renumber it as route 38. It would provide accessible trams to Church Street/Chapel Street passengers. The addition of 2 left turning tracks at St. Kilda would allow for the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street.
@clawscrab how in any way, from at end of the 12 would "2 left turning tracks at St. Kilda allow for the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street" ?? 🙃. I guess you actually meant outbound right/west turn tracks, into Fitzroy St. (There's is a single left turn service (non passenger) track at end of Park St/#12) Also by "the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street" did you mean terminate at Acland St terminus? Or to Carlise St/Acland St junction, and then continue along Carlise St?
Route 12 is sure interesting and unique. I wonder which way would be quicker to get from the 12 terminus to where the 12 crosses the 96. Also during the pandemic, route 12 actually deviate on latrobe street as a measure to stop the spread. Also thank you for the channel mention!
Route 96 would probably be faster as it runs down the light rail. Also, I am aware that Route 12 diverted via La Trobe Street during the pandemic (and still does during major events), I purely forgot to mention it.
@beasts4life-99 Route 96 seems faster, but also depends on where you start. From Stop 124 Clarendon St/Casino-Convention Centre, on weekend it is same travel time (according to PTV journey planner/timetable), to Park/Fitzroy Sts. Only difference in Total Journey time is Walking the few hundred metres from one route's tram stop, to the other's. Since Batman stop & Crown/Clarendon St stop are the only stops (i'm fairly sure) that share the 12 & 96. If coming from Southern Cross Station, only difference (in time) is the walk to the 12 stop on Collins St, since stop was moved 200 metres back from Spencer St. During weekdays peak hour, the 12 is 4 minutes longer from Stop 124 or Batman
I can take either 12 or 96 to the city. I find that if both routes reach Fitzroy St/Park St at the same time, the fastest one is always the one I didn't get
@@tekkies-transportWeekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124.Weekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124. Well, that was interesting, to check PTV re Tram travel times. Weekends, same time from the 2 Spencer/Clarendon St stops they share (Crown & Batman Park). As that's the only stops they share (?), only difference in total journey time was walking from one route's stop to the other route's stop. Weekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124. I had always thought the 96 was quicker from SCS, but if I was at Collins St Stop #1, I wouldn't save any time (in total travel time), by walking to the 96's Spencer St/Collins St stop. However, I Still Would walk to the 96 & get that, as that passenger crush load, from the stops near SCS to the Crown Stop can be awful, often. Tho, perhaps is bit less crush on the 12 outbound. Certainly isn't any less crush inbound tho from Crown To SCS. Couple times it was so bad, I've started getting off Southbank Junction aka Port Junction or off at Crown, & walk to Southern Cross Station. I will stay on if going further into CBD. On a 30C day like today, I would perhaps get the 96 since it's always E-Class & have good conditioning. Route 12s/109s (where share tracks) D-class & A's aren't the best trams to be on, on hot day (why do some D's I get on, aircon isn't working well. At least with D's design with the single seats, can grap one and won't get anyone sweaty next to me, or should that be no one has to sit next to me lol). Perhaps some of you Melbourne transport youtubers could do a challenge, to see who gets from a stop in city, to Fitzroy St/Park St Kilda. Only fair place to start would be North-East corner of Collins St/Spencer St, but it'd be more interesting from Spring St at equal point between the two. But normal pace walking only, as running to stop/tram (or train) doesn't prove or disprove anything re travel times on PT.
@@andrew7955 Hi & lol, As I was looking at just outbound trams (re my comments), I quickly glanced at inbound journey times, & believe it or not travel times into the CBD - to same 2, only shared stops on Clarendon /Spencer St aren't same as outbound. Also St Kilda/96 trams inbound always have to wait & give way to all 109 trams. I believe it's about a minute's "clearance", so if a 109 is approaching, but still back (& not seen) from Southbank Junction, 96 has to wait. ALL trams must stop at the Split going either way, but inbound 109s pause is quick
It's definitely an A-Class, the easiest way to tell is where the route number is on the destination sign. The Z-Class has a separate frame/panel for the route number that sticks up higher above the destination sign (similar to the old W-Class in that regard), whereas the A-Class has the destination and route number all on the same panel like the B-Class. Another difference is the A-Class doesn't have a rear door whereasthe Z3 class does.
Route 12 should go down La trobe, I think the govt are waiting for the big tram redraw once the metro tunnel opens, to say the works are because of the tunnel not because it was always possible.
Realigning route 12 to La Trobe St does not consider the frequency of service to North Richmond which would effectively be halved for practical purposes. Waiting time during the day in Collins St is 4 mins to North Richmond, this would become 8 mins if route 12 ran down La Trobe St. The reason for the 4 min service is heavy loading. Before the mid-1980s there used to be a 6 min service to Deepdene, this was reduced to 8 mins for budget reasons. Route 12, which used to run to West Preston, was sent to North Richmond to plug up the gap in service on that busy section. I would suggest an alternative plan would be to restore the City Circle to its original route along Spencer St. The City Circle was only diverted to Docklands for political reasons to try and bring some life to an area that was a planning disaster. It would be more useful going past the railway station rather than the Q shaped route to an area nobody wants to go to and which is already served by other routes.
Also, the siding in Albert Rd which is today, as you say, used for Grand Prix was actually installed for footy trams when the South Melbourne footy team had Lakeside oval as their home ground before they nicked off to Sydney. The siding at Albert Park Beach was put in for the same reason. Some other historic fun facts: before 1953 both tram routes at Park and Clarendon Sts turned the corner, the Fitzroy St line ran via Swanston St to East Coburg and the South Melb Beach line ran via Collins St to East and West Preston. And the terminus at Fizroy St used to be in Beaconsfield Pde. One block before the present terminus trams turned down Mary St and then into Beaconsfield Pde. There was a double track connection there and some summer Sunday services would continue through to Luna Park. The line used to be run by South Melbourne Depot in Kingsway before it was relocated to the present day Southbank Depot.
The south part of Route 12 was also the route the tramcar restaurant used. I think on occasion it may have used the curve to join 96 down to acland st but not when i was on it.
Great work. Really interesting video. Looks like a lot of work put into the filming and the script/voiceover.
Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Damn tekkie, this really blew up
I know. When I left for Canberra it was almost at 100 views. Now it's at 6.5k! Definitely a shock to say the least...
Great and understandable graphics, a nice selection of angles for your clips
Travelling from South Melbourne to St Kilda on the 12 is such a calming experience. Depending on tram 109 spacing, travelling on the 12 from Victoria Gardens to the city can be a nightmare. How many years has it been running? Still people seem puzzled at being turfed off the tram at Victoria Gardens, expecting it to continue on.
Having travelled on the route in the process of filming, I agree that the trip from South Melbourne to St Kilda is indeed very calming. As for how long the route has been running, the current Route 12 has been running since 2014.
really interesting video! as someone who lives on the route 12 tram line this was super cool to learn about!!
I preferred the old 112 myself! It was a handy northsidesouthside option that didn't require changing in the city.
Another weird route is the 16. A good route should be one where you could potentially have a reason to travel the entire length of it, or a big portion of it at least, but nobody would EVER want to go from Kew to Melbourne Uni via St Kilda - the 16 just doesn't make sense.
I completely agree with all of that! As a St Kilda local I used to get the 112 if I went out to Brunswick St or places like that, it was really handy. There are a lot of reasons people would travel from the inner-south to the inner-north & vice versa since both are nightlife hotspots. The 96 does this well linking St Kilda & South Melbourne to Carlton, Carlton North & Brunswick East; and the 112 was a very complimentary route in linking St Kilda & South Melbourne to Fitzroy, Northcote & Preston.
Considering the Route 78 pretty much already links St Kilda to North Richmond (despite the signage saying "Balaclava" the southern terminus is in fact in St Kilda), it seems a bit redundant have a second route travel from St Kilda to North Richmond but just via a much less efficient route.
My suggestion would have been to retain the 112, and perhaps just extend the 78's northern terminus to Victoria Gardens.
As for the 16, that is definitely a strange route. It does have some use, because people may need to travel from St Kilda or Balaclava up to suburbs like Malvern, Hawthorn & Kew. I actually used to get the 16 to commute from St Kilda to Hawthorn when I worked in Hawthorn.
However, I can't actually imagine that anybody would ever need to travel from the city to Kew via St Kilda like you say. As at least a small improvement, the 16 & 3 could swap their routes through St Kilda:
- The 3 could be the one that detours via the beach;
- The 16 could be the one that continues straight through the middle of St Kilda on St Kilda Road
That provides 2 benefits:
1. The much longer route (the 16) is taking the shortest route through St Kilda;
2. It would add low floor trams to the stretch of St Kilda Road between the Junction & Carlisle St, which is entirely accessible stops but is currently only serviced by non-accessible trams from Glen Huntly Depot.
The larger B-Class trams on the Route 3 would also add capacity to the St Kilda Beach area, without having to take a service off the St Kilda Road stretch for the weekend like the 3A used to do. While the beach area is more of a destination, St Kilda Road services a lot more St Kilda residents so I never liked the idea of the 3A on weekends.
Simply swapping the 3 & 16 around would address issues of both capacity to St Kilda Beach and accessibility on St Kilda Road while keeping 2 routes running along St Kilda Road 7 days a week (the 67 & 16).
That makes a lot of sense - might be worth suggesting that to PTV! I've written to them before and they do forward feedback to the right people to investigate (though whether they act on it is another matter)@@JesusManera
@@prodigalretrodGood suggestion!
Good point about the 16, having a route that basically does one massive u-turn around the suburbs is quite odd, and the fact that it also crosses other tram routes which take a more direct route into the city makes it useless if you want to go to the city from Kew. However, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't travel huge portions of Route 16 to get to places, and it is quite useful for people travelling down Glenferrie Road.
@@tekkies-transport the u-turn shape makes a unique occurrence on hawthorn road with route 64. The citybound directions for routes 16 and 64 are in opposite directions
Really great video! Definitely deserving of more views, this covers the route really well.
Thank you Qazzy. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
96's MSAC Stop is just 125 metres from 12's Mills St Stop at Canterbury Rd, but only be for to/from Danks St/Park St, & are 4 other easy options going from CBD to St Kilda Beach.
Taking Route 12 off Collins would increase passenger congestion a lot. Need the 4 routes along there. You'd have to increase frequency in the other 3 routes services, so wouldn't reduce tram congestion. Also just increasing tram frequency in other 3 routes along Collins St may not be enough to cater for passengers numbers.
The #48 was re-routed (in 2014?) to along Collins St to provide additional services there.
To provide a continuous tram journey along Spencer St I'd consider putting the #48 back to Flinders St turning north into Spencer St. Like it once used to. Putting the #48 to Flinders would also provide more trams to footy & events in Jolimont.
Or I'd consider putting current Route 70/Central Pier trams to turn into Spencer St instead, & increase frequency of Route 75/Waterfront City trams.
Other thing i'd consider is a Shuttle Service (akin to the #30 Shuttle) running long Latrobe St to/from Marvel Stadium, along Spencer St and Flinders St, along Exhibition St Extension (named to Batman Ave several years ago); With services terminating at Melbourne Park (Rod Laver Arena, etc area) where Special Events trams/services now terminate. To have a permanent services for to Events, since there are many with 5 venues there, would be good.
There are less complexities at intersections (St Vincent's south-bound left turn is always congested, and the southern cross station south/east turn delays the signal) plus the other routes could all carry more capacity easily.
@@ultrajaywalker hi my comments were only in respect to his suggestions he said in the video, with him saying to take the #12 off Collins St, & what I would consider, if so.
As I wouldn't take the #12 off Collins St, nor (unlikely*) put the #48 back to Flinders St & along all of Spencer St to Latrobe St,
a lot of what i said I wouldn't do anyway, if I was doing tram network re-routes/overhaul.
Except for Marvel Stadium/Victoria Harbour Shuttles to Melbourne Park being created (& that doesn't relate to what he said nor my comments re if #12 was taken off Collins St
Your comment has "less complexities at intersections"; did you mean other complexities as you go on to describe issues at SCS stop, & St Vincent Plaza, or would be less complex to do re-routes at those 2 places?
Changing routes where there's already turn tracks (& are re all my comment/suggestions) are no more complex.
As I don't get trams in morning peak hour - but I do evening peak - through St Vincent's Plaza, I never seen more than 2 trams at, or 1 at, & 1 coming into that stop.
Left turns from Victoria Pde into Gisborne Macarthur St are only delayed due to being 3 intersections being controlled/sequenced in the road traffic lights sequences.
There's no delays caused by the trams, As soon as a CBD bound tram has loaded at south stop, it moves ahead from it, & waits at the traffic light. Only issue is if tram is waiting at west-bound roadway of Victoria Pde, to cross it, & 109, 12, 11 comes in to the Platform. Tram has to wait till next cycle, to be able to go through.
(Trams get 2 "goes" there in one full cycle of the traffic lights, by the way. I've stood at the stop & watched the tram/track light and traffic lights).
As for turn from Collins St, into Spencer St to go south (& only 2 routes trams), putting the 12 via Latrobe St-Spencer St wouldn't make any difference re time for it, or 109 to get through the intersection. Barely, at least.
The #11 got it's own Outbound Platform at St Vincents, so more trams could come in there at same time, & so as #11 would block the other routes and vice versa.
May not be room for it but a separate outbound platform & splitting from the other tracks (like at St Vincents) is something I'd consider
@@CityBeatEntertainme5 I meant removing turns at those intersections to reduce signal cycle length and reduce overall complexity at those intersections (for all traffic, tram/private vehicle/pedestrian).
As a user of morning peak city-bound route 11 services, almost every day without fail the trams leaving Brunswick St always get stuck and wait at least one entire cycle to get into St Vincents. I have waited in trams that have waited three entire signal cycles, and those are not short cycles let me tell you. You are right, the trams can wait at the turn signal but the stop still doesn't fit another full low-floor (or if it does the morning drivers are not doing it and I'm not sure why) BUT there is a much greater length of time that trams can through run straight through Victoria Pde so it would almost eliminate that issue. 11s heading in the opposite direction have a whole other dedicated turning track and these run fine in my experience.
"A tram turning, waiting at the westbound road lanes to go into Gisborne St does not block the #30 from going through" - as far as I'm aware all low-floor trams block the through-running trams if turning due to their length.
Concerning SCS, that turn signal does add a massive wait and wastes a lot of precious time in the morning peak when you add it up, and having 12s run straight with ped and vehicle traffic would do wonders.
I don't live in Melbourne but this is still a interesting video
this is awesome stuff dude
I send you a “Hello” from Mulhouse/France , the original home of the “Bumblebee” C2 series…
Too bad I haven’t seen one in this well done video.🙂
@aoipe I don't think there's any C-Classes (C1 or C2) at all, but unless you know tram number(s) of the C2's you won't spot since livery is same as C1s (& Ds & Es).
As you know they're called C2s here, you may know Bumblebee Orange livery was changed a decade ago. After being bought outright in 2012-13, after being leased for use Melbourne as were surplus to the demand in Mulhouse, then. Apparently.
Numbers for the C2s are: C2 5103, C2 5106, C2 5111, C2 5113, C2 5123.
(just have number, not the C2, on them, just put that if you'd like to google any).
As the 5 Bumblebees were excess to Mullhouse's needs at the time, Do you need some trams back, now? You're welcome to have some D-Class ones lol.
Yeh, D's were built in a country next to France, but is only 5km from Mullhouse, & is close enough lol to sending them back 🙃.
I & some friends reckoned Bumblebees looked great, & are good ones to travel on.
@@CBM_Walks
As the finances for our extension was canceled back then we don’t need them back. I will always recognize them because of their custom made head with the inclined side-windows.
Btw, the next country to Mulhouse is 18km away- Germany - and 35 to Switzerland.
Have you noticed that every Bumblebee had a different design (color)?
Here the numbers have been the same,
just in the 2000 instead of your 5100.
Bonjour! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I did actually manage to film a C2 Class tram, as they do run down Spencer Street. I was pretty lucky to get footage of one, as they are only 5 of them here in Melbourne, and they only run on Route 96.
My idea is to merge route 30 with route 78 and renumber it as route 38. It would provide accessible trams to Church Street/Chapel Street passengers.
The addition of 2 left turning tracks at St. Kilda would allow for the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street.
@clawscrab how in any way, from at end of the 12 would "2 left turning tracks at St. Kilda allow for the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street" ?? 🙃.
I guess you actually meant outbound right/west turn tracks, into Fitzroy St.
(There's is a single left turn service (non passenger) track at end of Park St/#12)
Also by "the 12 to follow route 96 to Acland Street" did you mean terminate at Acland St terminus? Or to Carlise St/Acland St junction, and then continue along Carlise St?
Also, I’ve literally just discovered you and I find you very informative and exactly like qazzy transport, so I subscribed 👍
Awesome, thank you!
@@tekkies-transport no problem 😉
Great expliner video. Would love to see more tram route or train line explainers if possible please.
Don't worry, I have another one in the works...
@@tekkies-transport Awesome, can't wait.
ive ben squashed like a sardene during evening peak on that tram route all the way to albert park canterbury road/Mills street
The tramcar restaurant used the southern part of route 12 to its terminus as part of its tour
love it!!
Route 30 is pretty odd as well
And only one stop outside the free fair zone
Users of route 12 don't want to go to the wasteland of Latrobe Street.
1:54 i saw a tram terminate their when i was going back to the city
Agree lol
Route 12 is sure interesting and unique. I wonder which way would be quicker to get from the 12 terminus to where the 12 crosses the 96. Also during the pandemic, route 12 actually deviate on latrobe street as a measure to stop the spread. Also thank you for the channel mention!
Route 96 would probably be faster as it runs down the light rail. Also, I am aware that Route 12 diverted via La Trobe Street during the pandemic (and still does during major events), I purely forgot to mention it.
@beasts4life-99 Route 96 seems faster, but also depends on where you start.
From Stop 124 Clarendon St/Casino-Convention Centre, on weekend it is same travel time (according to PTV journey planner/timetable), to Park/Fitzroy Sts.
Only difference in Total Journey time is Walking the few hundred metres from one route's tram stop, to the other's. Since Batman stop & Crown/Clarendon St stop are the only stops (i'm fairly sure) that share the 12 & 96.
If coming from Southern Cross Station, only difference (in time) is the walk to the 12 stop on Collins St, since stop was moved 200 metres back from Spencer St.
During weekdays peak hour, the 12 is 4 minutes longer from Stop 124 or Batman
I can take either 12 or 96 to the city. I find that if both routes reach Fitzroy St/Park St at the same time, the fastest one is always the one I didn't get
@@tekkies-transportWeekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124.Weekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124. Well, that was interesting, to check PTV re Tram travel times. Weekends, same time from the 2 Spencer/Clarendon St stops they share (Crown & Batman Park). As that's the only stops they share (?), only difference in total journey time was walking from one route's stop to the other route's stop.
Weekdays Peak Hour the #12 is 4 minutes longer, from Stop 124.
I had always thought the 96 was quicker from SCS, but if I was at Collins St Stop #1, I wouldn't save any time (in total travel time), by walking to the 96's Spencer St/Collins St stop.
However, I Still Would walk to the 96 & get that, as that passenger crush load, from the stops near SCS to the Crown Stop can be awful, often.
Tho, perhaps is bit less crush on the 12 outbound. Certainly isn't any less crush inbound tho from Crown To SCS. Couple times it was so bad, I've started getting off Southbank Junction aka Port Junction or off at Crown, & walk to Southern Cross Station. I will stay on if going further into CBD.
On a 30C day like today, I would perhaps get the 96 since it's always E-Class & have good conditioning. Route 12s/109s (where share tracks) D-class & A's aren't the best trams to be on, on hot day (why do some D's I get on, aircon isn't working well. At least with D's design with the single seats, can grap one and won't get anyone sweaty next to me, or should that be no one has to sit next to me lol).
Perhaps some of you Melbourne transport youtubers could do a challenge, to see who gets from a stop in city, to Fitzroy St/Park St Kilda.
Only fair place to start would be North-East corner of Collins St/Spencer St, but it'd be more interesting from Spring St at equal point between the two.
But normal pace walking only, as running to stop/tram (or train) doesn't prove or disprove anything re travel times on PT.
@@andrew7955 Hi & lol, As I was looking at just outbound trams (re my comments), I quickly glanced at inbound journey times, & believe it or not travel times into the CBD - to same 2, only shared stops on Clarendon /Spencer St aren't same as outbound. Also St Kilda/96 trams inbound always have to wait & give way to all 109 trams.
I believe it's about a minute's "clearance", so if a 109 is approaching, but still back (& not seen) from Southbank Junction, 96 has to wait. ALL trams must stop at the Split going either way, but inbound 109s pause is quick
0:51 false, that is the Z-class tram
It's definitely an A-Class, the easiest way to tell is where the route number is on the destination sign. The Z-Class has a separate frame/panel for the route number that sticks up higher above the destination sign (similar to the old W-Class in that regard), whereas the A-Class has the destination and route number all on the same panel like the B-Class.
Another difference is the A-Class doesn't have a rear door whereasthe Z3 class does.
@@JesusManera no I’m talking about the size
@@JesusManera I’m not getting mixed up. I know the difference between an A class and a Z class
@@TurquoisechannelshortsYTthe capacity of a class trams is smaller than the z class trams
Get rid of Route 30 and use the E-Class trams on a new Route 12 via Spencer and Latrobe Streets.
That would be ideal…