Import string for this build: BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgERSAkkEJSSCkEJRikkkkECAAAAAAQSSimUSCIBAAAA Videos like this wouldn't be possible without the great minds of Ravenholdt.net, whom host basically every major Rogue theorycrafter in the community. I highly recommend stopping by their massive rogue community discord for all the most up to date information possible, though I will do my best to put out update videos where applicable as we progress through Dragonflight Season 1 and beyond. Overall this build can do quite a lot of damage but offers a VERY different playstyle, and as I mention in this video, is HEAVILY reliant on decent procs to produce damage and feel smooth. I hope this video covers enough aspects of it to give you the confidence to try out something different to see if you like it or not. ^^ As always, have a great day, folks!
@@morgydg4640 xD I actually still use Audacity for my background noise removal/compression/EQ and junk for these videos, ironically. I was paying for the full Adobe cloud suite but really only use Premiere so I dropped down to just a Premiere license to save money because Audacity is pretty hard to beat for literally 0 dollars.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue That's amazing! I was introduced to it many moons ago ( high school ) and it's just so good for free! Quick question how do you have your sinister strike swapping to ambush when it's usable? - Button two if that helps
@@morgydg4640 Yup, pretty much the same. It's just a very easy to use bit of software that I can't really justify paying for anything at this point. As far as my sinister strike/ambush thing, it's actually just because I have my stealth bar set up the same as my regular main bar with the exception of ambush, so that trick only works during shadow dance, stealth and subterfuge. For Audacity procs I still keep a second keybind for ambush on my second bar, sadly.
Thank you kindly, Prang. I've been admittedly in a bit of a rut as of recent but will hopefully have more rogue stuff and wow videos in general with 10.0.7 ^^;
Well hopefully I hope those things were good. ^^; I'm kinda a one-trick-pony when it comes to rogue and I love talking about it when I can, despite my non-rogue videos being generally more successful. This is really my go-to class for literally 17+ years at this point, so I hope they help more people give rogue a chance.
@@systemx17 Shiv for Outlaw is really just used to remove enrage effects from enemy targets, outside of that you basically don't ever touch it, correct. ^^
For sure, always happy to help, sleeper. ^^ I always recommend folks swing by the ravenholdt rogue discord too as they keep a ton of extra info and all the newest theorycrafting information out over there, definitely stop by if you haven’t yet if you’re new to outlaw or just rogue in general!
I know you've been posting other videos but I was wondering if you could talk about the builds again since the talent tree was moved around a bit with the recent update?
Yeah, 100% feast or famine, there really is not middleground situation. Procs back to back is S-Tier feedback loop, without them it feels really rough.
Ah you're correct, I don't believe I covered it in here. There has apparently been some miscalculations with Blade Rush and when to/when not to use it, since it can proc main gauche which was previously not detected in logs, apparently. The general rule was to only use it when below 60-70 energy, and when fighting at least 7 targets, and I believe that is still the current 'best use' of the move. Or, alternatively, it does give you a pseudo-charge effect so you can opt to use it for gap-closing and utility as well.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue i think the charge aspect of it might be underrated especially with this build having less movement than rogues usually have but it definitely does feel weird to use rotationally
@@baconflaps Yeah, I usually found that gap-closing effect to be very useful in the builds where I run it, since blade rush has never exactly been a huge portion of overall DPS and has very weird optimizations. Apparently they're doing some more work on the APL for blade-rush in simcraft so even this might change rule-wise slightly. I believe if you have more than 8 targets you can just hit blade rush (with flurry active of course) regardless of the amount of energy you have, so even if it causes you to overpool it does enough damage above 8 targets to be worth hitting. It's just kinda odd how inefficient this talent can be in regards to raw DPS throughput for being an uncapped AoE move. xD
It is a WA, but is isn't a WeakAura I made personally, so I didn't include it in my Wago directory. I'll see if I can find the link to zac's CP tracker, which is the one I use, though I did a few minor tweaks to the size/coloring to fit my UI better. This is Zac's WA from Ravenholdt wago.io/cXPWgTiJ9
Them legs were made for DANCING, Lorks! Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas to you, my friend. Thanks for checking in on like 99.999% of my videos I put up.
I play this build and don't sacrifice any poisons, i use atrophic poison with master poisoner to make everything deal 3.6% less damage. What I do sacrifice is feint, gouge, and tricks...I really haven't felt I've been missing those abilities so far to be honest. The extra raid/dungeon wide damage reduction is worth it I think.
For raid I'd agree, though atrophic poison I'd argue isn't as potent as mind-numbing poison except for perhaps on tyrannical weeks depending on the boss, since atrophic is kinda odd and doesn't work on AoE damage things. I haven't done a full test on which bosses are/aren't impactfully affected by atrophic, though I know for instance in raid situations that Terros's pillars aren't reduced in pulsing damage by atrophic since they aren't technically the boss doing the damage, so I believe the slicing maelstrom attack on Melandrus would only be reduced on Melandrus himself and not the clones. This particular video focuses exclusively on dungeons though, so for raid I would say the things you're giving up are not really a big deal. Not having tricks of the trade for dungeons sounds like a death sentence to me personally since I only pug my keys and have 0 faith in any tanks I get. XD
I recently switched back to playing HO after playing Keep it rolling. I did a 15 key with another outlaw rogue and seeing how much more damage he was pulling was what made me switch back. Getting the 2 piece and the slight nerf to ER pushed HO further ahead.
Yeah there is a definite flat DPS gain for the hidden opportunity builds, though I have yet to feel a noticeable DPS gain between swapping. I have been super unlucky and haven't gotten ANY tier yet, though I believe both builds are reasonably competitive depending on what you're willing to trade off for the overall throughput gains.
That's (I believe) part of Details, I think it's the Streamer plug-in so it lets me see what I was doing during recordings in case I need to look over my footage, or for when people want to know stuff that I'm doing too. And for sure, you're very welcome, Amigo, always happy to help. ^^
More than 1 target, use blade flurry. Except on things like the boss fight in temple of jade serpent, you can't cleave those two or you'll wipe your group.
I have a couple of questions if you got some time. 1) when do you stream? 2) should I dump my current say 4 cp on a blade flurried dispatch so I can use my 3/6 stacks of opportunity? 3) do you know what buff/proc I can detect in weakauras to tell me if my next pistol shot will be cheap? Thanks for any help. Appreciate your time.
1. I stream from 12PM to 5PM Pacific time on Tuesdays and Fridays, some times I have random days where I just stream for the hell of it though. 2. If you don't have an Audacity proc active, then you just use the pistol shot even though it'll overcap you. It's better to overcap CP and use a full powered dispatch than to try and save them, apparently. I doubt the damage overall is much different but it's currently accepted as the most optimal way to play with your audacity/opportunity stacks. 3. The only way to track that is just your opportunity stacks, which you gain immediately when your sinister strikes/ambushes trigger an extra hit. I just track all my opportunity stacks all the time. 4. You could take Retractable hook if you want, but having a larger health pool is generally safer for mythic+ keys since it increases how much your crimson vial heals you for as well as the cheat-death overkill range. You could still opt for hook if you want though. You're totally welcome, always happy to help. ^^
Loving your content as always Red Rogue! So while in shadow dance, would you always activate blade flurry? And spam Ambush until you get the opportunity procs? So even when shadow dance is active, you would fire off the opportunity procs rather than ambush? Thanks!
As long is there is TWO targets, you will always exit stealth with Blade Flurry, correct. ^^ That is at least what is simming the best right now for cleave damage. You would also spam ambush until you are either full on combo points, or get 6 stacks of opportunity. Overcapping opportunity stacks is VERY bad for this dance/audacity build, so you never want to was them, as it is just a lot of free DPS as well as ways to proc your out-of-stealth ambushes. If for some reason you have 6 stacks of opportunity during dance, you will ALWAYS use them so you don't overcap. Also, you're very welcome, ToddCheTak, always happy to help. ^^ Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas to you!
So when do you dump your points with dispatch then?? You build up combo point so fast... Let's say during shadowdance. Do you just spam ambush until it's over and then use dispatch? Or do you build up max combo points dispatch and ambush?
Nope, you still use finishers when you're full, even during Shadow Dance. So the priority is- Use Between the Eyes on cooldown for Greenskin's damage procs. Keep Slice and Dice up Use Dispatch to empty combo points if the other two conditions are met. Ideally you will not need to refresh Slice and Dice or Between the Eyes while Shadow Dance is active, though, if you keep up with them before your dance is active.
@@Nocure92 hmmm okay, but if you use dispatch during dance / vanish. Would this drag your dps down then? So you just spam ambush until it´s over. Regardless of your combo points?
@@Nocure92 Unless there has been some big change in the APL optimization, you never just spam ambush and throw away that many combo points. Opportunity procs are a bit different since they can trigger more ambushes via Audacity and you also can sacrifice the combo points generated from that since it's only a single GCD being used, but yes you do want Between the Eyes and Slice and Dice and Roll the Bones active so you don't waste any GCDs during your dance window on buff refreshes, but that is a pretty standard rule of thumb with shadow dance in any spec.
@@Hoowahoowa That's what I've been doing so far. I don't really know either way. An ambush can hit as hard as a full dispatch though and you can spam it.
Yeah I'm pretty bummed with the change on Fan the Hammer, really boogers up the rotation flow and puts much more reliance on getting skull and crossbones or broadsides to make it feel the same as it does currently. =/ The Fan the Hammer nerf affects virtually all current builds of outlaw since it's a talent basically everyone takes, so I'm not sure if this will make the Keep it Rolling setup closer in value since I imagine this has more of an impact on the audacity/hidden opportunity feedback loop than the other build, but I haven't heard much on Ravenholdt yet for speculations/theorycrafting for 10.0.5 just yet.
I believe the yellow glow/slash look is specifically because trolls are really tall, so their weapons are big which makes the visual effects even more noticeable. I also use the Mage Tower appearance Fencer's Reach, which is unfortunately unobtainable for now. =/
All I did was I set up my stealth bar to be identical to my main bar, so I just stealth and move all my abilities so they match when I'm out of stealth, other than swapping sinister strike for ambush. ^^
For sure, happy to help and thank you for the kind words, Hashbrown. ^^ I plan on having a bunch more rogue stuff coming up as well as other more general topics too.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue Interesting, I have my bar's in and out of stealth the exact same besides Sinister and Ambush and I can't get mine to switch when it procs!
@@TheLastHashbrown Oh, you might have just seen me when I was in the middle of shadow dance, which causes it to glow too in the footage. I usually keep a separate keybind on my 2nd bar so I can use ambush when it procs out of stealth/subterfuge/dance windows. ^^; I think I misunderstood what you meant at first.
Hi there, question, If I am coming out of stealth and I have those few seconds of using stealth skills, do I use dispatch over spamming ambush if the points or maxed, or just use ambush for those first few seconds out of stealth even if points or capped
As far as I've seen from personal use and the simulation APLs, you will still use your finishers as needed to not just waste all the CP you generated, so if you need to put Between the Eyes or Slice and Dice up, or are full and need to empty via Dispatch if your buffs are taken care of, then you still will use it during subterfuge.
2 роки тому+2
I have ilvl 380 and no matter what i do i cant get over 25k consistent damage ... on a dummy. In raids where there is a lot of movement my dps falls soo low... i really lost hope and dont know what i am dping wrong ;(
The biggest one is Weakauras, which is what makes up about 90% of my UI. I also use Details for my damage meters, and Edit Mode Expanded to add more features to my Edit Mode in the standard UI. Outside of that, I use SexyMap for my minimap, KUINameplates, Kaliel's Tracker for my Quest UI, and OPie for a bunch of extra things like mounts, utility, target markers, and more.
I have a question, decided to play rogue this expac and been out since legion. Do I want a dagger/faster weapon for my offhand due to increase chances of procs/energy regain? Or is it better to have a like 2 item level increase slower weapon in offhand?
The big thing for a dagger offhand is to proc more instant poisons, however it is best to sim your gear in TopGear in case your dagger happens to have bad stats. It used to be that a dagger of a slightly lower level was still better than a slower weapon offhand, but with how bad haste is right now you really should just sim your options via TopGear on Raidbots.com . (As a side note, energy procs have been normalized so it doesn't matter any more if you use a fast or slow offhand, it reasults in the same overall energy gains)
@@ZeraTheRedRogue cheers, yeah I usually run top gear but it's showing in the top three with like a 2-4 points difference 😂 I just wasn't certain on the energy procs! That's cool to know though! I think I might stick to dagger and enchant as well so I can have more flexibility with playing assass which I absolutely love this expac 😊 Thanks guys! Also this video helped to simplify the more in depth parts of the spec, when I held off more and used between the eyes with five or more CP I found it was running a lot smoother! I definitely live by the 1-2% dps loss doesn't mean anything if it means you're alive in the end. I usually take evasion for when weirdness happens and you gotta rogue tank the packs so they don't reset if your tank gets slapped or someone pulls another 😂
For some reason, when I use blade flurry from stealth I don't get subterfuge, so I can't open in aoe with bf - ambush - ambush, only with ambush - bf - ambush. Idk if it's a bug, or smth on my side since I can't find anyone with that kind of a problem. What could be the reason for that?
Hm, that is very strange Kythox. The only thing I can think of is maybe do you have a racial ability bound to blade flurry or something? I used to have a similar problem where I couldn’t use adrenaline rush and stay in stealth because I had berserking the troll racial macro’d to it and berserking breaks stealth. That doesn’t quite make sense either way though as subterfuge should trigger any time you break stealth as long as you’re in combat, if you’re not in combat then it won’t so your blade flurry MUST hit something.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue tested it more, still no subterfuge after bf. I don't use macro for bf. So rn I'm abusing grapple hook bug so I grapple, it breaks stealth with subterfuge and I insta bf since grapple is an off-gcd ability. Maybe start auto-attacking into bf macro would work, will try later
Yeah I know, it's so strange that it isn't just baked in. =/ Originally in beta I think they got rid of the quad damage entirely, but brought it back with one of the early builds. The problem is you end up having to take one or more non-DPS gain talents to pick it up, like Riposte, and it isn't worth that much of an investment in this build from the looks of it.
the roll the bones logic you have is a little incorrect, mostly bc you didnt mention the loaded dice conditionals 1) no single buff is optimal technically* assuming you have loaded dice you should always reroll (*sometimes you shouldn't due to fight about to end or you need damage in a specific window and dont want to risk a reroll) 2) there are some two buffs you would reroll (with loaded dice up) that aren't just grand melee/buried treasure, any 2 buff that does not include (snc, broadside OR truebearing, which you didn't include as a good buff, is considered subpar and SHOULD be rerolled if you have loaded dice (ex: ruthless precision and buried treasure), if you dont have loaded dice you can keep any 2 buff unless ofc it is the worst 2 buff gm/bt and in that case you would reroll regardless of loaded dice or not 3) Finally, truebearing as you mentioned is not particularly valuable to the build's overall direct damage but still maintains value as one of the 3 "good" buffs to get alongside snc and broadside primarily because of its cdr on ADR which can greatly increase loaded dice uptime, and loaded dice is crucial in maintaining this roll the bones logic, it has value essentially because rolls are more impactful with this build since you cannot preserve good rolls like you could with keep it rolling
Correct, I didn't really go into loaded Dice because regardless of if you have a singular good buff, you'd re-roll if loaded dice is active. That section was more-so to cover situations where it isn't available. The re-roll logic has also been getting worked on by the sounds of it from the TCs over on Ravenholdt which is also why I recommend and try to direct people over to the main discord since I can't exactly update a video like they can update pins, and redoing entire videos because of one section changing is a bit of a fruitless effort outside of maybe just putting up small addendum videos that link back to the original one. I also talked a lot about truebearing specifically because for 99% of outlaws existence, it has been generally considered the number 1 buff to try and get via re-rolls, which has become less true in particular with this setup since we've reached the point in Audacity uptime optimization that we're willing to throw away combo points just to trigger Audacity more often. I hopefully didn't make it sounds like Truebearing was an F tier buff now or something, just that is has dropped in the hierarchy of priority from where it's been basically since Legion. Thank you for taking the time to comment though, FBI, I appreciate the input and fact-checking as I have made mistakes here and there in the past and likely could've done a better job explaining the Roll the Bones logic as well as mentioning Loaded Dice more specifically. Edit: Ironically since I was curious how impactful loaded dice really was to the Dance/HO build, swapping out for Swift Slasher only resulted in about a 580 DPS loss in dungeonslice, so under 1% from the sims of my character at least. I figured it'd be a larger loss than that. xD
so many guides out and i still struggle to dps as outlaw XD im 381 but i get shit on in m+ dungs, i think a huge problem is the fact that i have at at around 24% mastery or is my mind playing tricks on me ?
Mastery actually isn't that terrible any more since a lot of bugs were fixed with things not proccing Main Gauche, so I can't say that is why. Haste is pretty useless in AoE so that might be part of it, but low damage overall in a dungeon is hard to pinpoint without looking through logs and footage to see what you are/aren't doing.
Import string for this build: BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgERSAkkEJSSCkEJRikkkkECAAAAAAQSSimUSCIBAAAA
Videos like this wouldn't be possible without the great minds of Ravenholdt.net, whom host basically every major Rogue theorycrafter in the community. I highly recommend stopping by their massive rogue community discord for all the most up to date information possible, though I will do my best to put out update videos where applicable as we progress through Dragonflight Season 1 and beyond.
Overall this build can do quite a lot of damage but offers a VERY different playstyle, and as I mention in this video, is HEAVILY reliant on decent procs to produce damage and feel smooth. I hope this video covers enough aspects of it to give you the confidence to try out something different to see if you like it or not. ^^ As always, have a great day, folks!
The amount of people that won't get that Audacity reference, but God damn did I laugh
@@morgydg4640 xD I actually still use Audacity for my background noise removal/compression/EQ and junk for these videos, ironically. I was paying for the full Adobe cloud suite but really only use Premiere so I dropped down to just a Premiere license to save money because Audacity is pretty hard to beat for literally 0 dollars.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue That's amazing! I was introduced to it many moons ago ( high school ) and it's just so good for free! Quick question how do you have your sinister strike swapping to ambush when it's usable? - Button two if that helps
@@morgydg4640 Yup, pretty much the same. It's just a very easy to use bit of software that I can't really justify paying for anything at this point. As far as my sinister strike/ambush thing, it's actually just because I have my stealth bar set up the same as my regular main bar with the exception of ambush, so that trick only works during shadow dance, stealth and subterfuge. For Audacity procs I still keep a second keybind for ambush on my second bar, sadly.
Nice guide as always. Last time I followed you was back in BFA, so it is a nice comeback. Hoping to continue follow it. :)
Thank you kindly, Prang. I've been admittedly in a bit of a rut as of recent but will hopefully have more rogue stuff and wow videos in general with 10.0.7 ^^;
This kinda content makes me feel things for wow that I haven’t felt for a long time. Thank you so much.
Well hopefully I hope those things were good. ^^; I'm kinda a one-trick-pony when it comes to rogue and I love talking about it when I can, despite my non-rogue videos being generally more successful. This is really my go-to class for literally 17+ years at this point, so I hope they help more people give rogue a chance.
All good stuff. Your videos are examples of how good class videos can get :) We just ignoring Shiv pretty much at this stage too right?
@@systemx17 Shiv for Outlaw is really just used to remove enrage effects from enemy targets, outside of that you basically don't ever touch it, correct. ^^
Great guide! I'm new to outlaw and this confirmed I was doing things right just need to get good haha. Cheers
For sure, always happy to help, sleeper. ^^ I always recommend folks swing by the ravenholdt rogue discord too as they keep a ton of extra info and all the newest theorycrafting information out over there, definitely stop by if you haven’t yet if you’re new to outlaw or just rogue in general!
I know you've been posting other videos but I was wondering if you could talk about the builds again since the talent tree was moved around a bit with the recent update?
Definitely in the works, I've been playing around with some talent adjustments with the 10.0.5 changes. ^^
This build is fun when buffed to the teeth but it feels bad outdoors with lower energy regen and such.
Yeah, 100% feast or famine, there really is not middleground situation. Procs back to back is S-Tier feedback loop, without them it feels really rough.
i dont think it was mentioned but its in the build and you definitely use it in the video but: Blade Rush usage?
Ah you're correct, I don't believe I covered it in here. There has apparently been some miscalculations with Blade Rush and when to/when not to use it, since it can proc main gauche which was previously not detected in logs, apparently. The general rule was to only use it when below 60-70 energy, and when fighting at least 7 targets, and I believe that is still the current 'best use' of the move. Or, alternatively, it does give you a pseudo-charge effect so you can opt to use it for gap-closing and utility as well.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue i think the charge aspect of it might be underrated especially with this build having less movement than rogues usually have but it definitely does feel weird to use rotationally
@@baconflaps Yeah, I usually found that gap-closing effect to be very useful in the builds where I run it, since blade rush has never exactly been a huge portion of overall DPS and has very weird optimizations. Apparently they're doing some more work on the APL for blade-rush in simcraft so even this might change rule-wise slightly. I believe if you have more than 8 targets you can just hit blade rush (with flurry active of course) regardless of the amount of energy you have, so even if it causes you to overpool it does enough damage above 8 targets to be worth hitting. It's just kinda odd how inefficient this talent can be in regards to raw DPS throughput for being an uncapped AoE move. xD
how do you get those combo points UI under the blade furry? its not one of your weakauras
It is a WA, but is isn't a WeakAura I made personally, so I didn't include it in my Wago directory. I'll see if I can find the link to zac's CP tracker, which is the one I use, though I did a few minor tweaks to the size/coloring to fit my UI better.
This is Zac's WA from Ravenholdt
wago.io/cXPWgTiJ9
All legs on deck!
Prepare for the the dance!
Thank you :)
Them legs were made for DANCING, Lorks!
Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas to you, my friend. Thanks for checking in on like 99.999% of my videos I put up.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue Merry Christmas! :)
Thank you :)
I play this build and don't sacrifice any poisons, i use atrophic poison with master poisoner to make everything deal 3.6% less damage. What I do sacrifice is feint, gouge, and tricks...I really haven't felt I've been missing those abilities so far to be honest. The extra raid/dungeon wide damage reduction is worth it I think.
For raid I'd agree, though atrophic poison I'd argue isn't as potent as mind-numbing poison except for perhaps on tyrannical weeks depending on the boss, since atrophic is kinda odd and doesn't work on AoE damage things. I haven't done a full test on which bosses are/aren't impactfully affected by atrophic, though I know for instance in raid situations that Terros's pillars aren't reduced in pulsing damage by atrophic since they aren't technically the boss doing the damage, so I believe the slicing maelstrom attack on Melandrus would only be reduced on Melandrus himself and not the clones. This particular video focuses exclusively on dungeons though, so for raid I would say the things you're giving up are not really a big deal. Not having tricks of the trade for dungeons sounds like a death sentence to me personally since I only pug my keys and have 0 faith in any tanks I get. XD
I recently switched back to playing HO after playing Keep it rolling. I did a 15 key with another outlaw rogue and seeing how much more damage he was pulling was what made me switch back. Getting the 2 piece and the slight nerf to ER pushed HO further ahead.
Yeah there is a definite flat DPS gain for the hidden opportunity builds, though I have yet to feel a noticeable DPS gain between swapping. I have been super unlucky and haven't gotten ANY tier yet, though I believe both builds are reasonably competitive depending on what you're willing to trade off for the overall throughput gains.
Is that ability side scroller above your damage meter added for the video or is that an add on?
Also, thanks for the in-depth guide
That's (I believe) part of Details, I think it's the Streamer plug-in so it lets me see what I was doing during recordings in case I need to look over my footage, or for when people want to know stuff that I'm doing too. And for sure, you're very welcome, Amigo, always happy to help. ^^
Very Nice guide, but when u use blade fury ?
More than 1 target, use blade flurry. Except on things like the boss fight in temple of jade serpent, you can't cleave those two or you'll wipe your group.
I have a couple of questions if you got some time. 1) when do you stream? 2) should I dump my current say 4 cp on a blade flurried dispatch so I can use my 3/6 stacks of opportunity? 3) do you know what buff/proc I can detect in weakauras to tell me if my next pistol shot will be cheap? Thanks for any help. Appreciate your time.
Sorry also I like movement, is the only reason to not take the Retractable Hook over Combat Stamina to help out the healers?
1. I stream from 12PM to 5PM Pacific time on Tuesdays and Fridays, some times I have random days where I just stream for the hell of it though.
2. If you don't have an Audacity proc active, then you just use the pistol shot even though it'll overcap you. It's better to overcap CP and use a full powered dispatch than to try and save them, apparently. I doubt the damage overall is much different but it's currently accepted as the most optimal way to play with your audacity/opportunity stacks.
3. The only way to track that is just your opportunity stacks, which you gain immediately when your sinister strikes/ambushes trigger an extra hit. I just track all my opportunity stacks all the time.
4. You could take Retractable hook if you want, but having a larger health pool is generally safer for mythic+ keys since it increases how much your crimson vial heals you for as well as the cheat-death overkill range. You could still opt for hook if you want though.
You're totally welcome, always happy to help. ^^
Loving your content as always Red Rogue!
So while in shadow dance, would you always activate blade flurry? And spam Ambush until you get the opportunity procs? So even when shadow dance is active, you would fire off the opportunity procs rather than ambush?
Thanks!
As long is there is TWO targets, you will always exit stealth with Blade Flurry, correct. ^^ That is at least what is simming the best right now for cleave damage. You would also spam ambush until you are either full on combo points, or get 6 stacks of opportunity. Overcapping opportunity stacks is VERY bad for this dance/audacity build, so you never want to was them, as it is just a lot of free DPS as well as ways to proc your out-of-stealth ambushes. If for some reason you have 6 stacks of opportunity during dance, you will ALWAYS use them so you don't overcap.
Also, you're very welcome, ToddCheTak, always happy to help. ^^ Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas to you!
@The Red Rogue thanks so much! Have a great Xmas and looking forward to your next video. 😀
@@Nitewalker1979 Likewise, and thank you for stopping by! ^^ Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas!
So when do you dump your points with dispatch then?? You build up combo point so fast... Let's say during shadowdance. Do you just spam ambush until it's over and then use dispatch? Or do you build up max combo points dispatch and ambush?
Nope, you still use finishers when you're full, even during Shadow Dance. So the priority is-
Use Between the Eyes on cooldown for Greenskin's damage procs.
Keep Slice and Dice up
Use Dispatch to empty combo points if the other two conditions are met.
Ideally you will not need to refresh Slice and Dice or Between the Eyes while Shadow Dance is active, though, if you keep up with them before your dance is active.
A lot of people also say that you should only use finishers after vanish/dance is over. And have all your buffs and resources up before you do it.
@@Nocure92 hmmm okay, but if you use dispatch during dance / vanish. Would this drag your dps down then? So you just spam ambush until it´s over. Regardless of your combo points?
@@Nocure92 Unless there has been some big change in the APL optimization, you never just spam ambush and throw away that many combo points. Opportunity procs are a bit different since they can trigger more ambushes via Audacity and you also can sacrifice the combo points generated from that since it's only a single GCD being used, but yes you do want Between the Eyes and Slice and Dice and Roll the Bones active so you don't waste any GCDs during your dance window on buff refreshes, but that is a pretty standard rule of thumb with shadow dance in any spec.
@@Hoowahoowa That's what I've been doing so far. I don't really know either way. An ambush can hit as hard as a full dispatch though and you can spam it.
10.5 nerds this with one 1 combo point each awarded from the triple pistol shot :( Please Mr Red, I need an alternative. Should I swap out of outlaw?
Nerfs not nerds.. autocorrect
Yeah I'm pretty bummed with the change on Fan the Hammer, really boogers up the rotation flow and puts much more reliance on getting skull and crossbones or broadsides to make it feel the same as it does currently. =/ The Fan the Hammer nerf affects virtually all current builds of outlaw since it's a talent basically everyone takes, so I'm not sure if this will make the Keep it Rolling setup closer in value since I imagine this has more of an impact on the audacity/hidden opportunity feedback loop than the other build, but I haven't heard much on Ravenholdt yet for speculations/theorycrafting for 10.0.5 just yet.
Great stuff ty
Happy to help, Syprus, and thanks for watching. ^^
Can someone explain how i can get my weapons to have that yellow effect? It looks so good
I believe the yellow glow/slash look is specifically because trolls are really tall, so their weapons are big which makes the visual effects even more noticeable. I also use the Mage Tower appearance Fencer's Reach, which is unfortunately unobtainable for now. =/
How are you getting your Sinister Strike and Ambush to change on your top bar once Ambush out of stealth procs? I hope I asked that correctly lol
All I did was I set up my stealth bar to be identical to my main bar, so I just stealth and move all my abilities so they match when I'm out of stealth, other than swapping sinister strike for ambush. ^^
Also, really enjoying your content as I take my first deep dive into playing outlaw rogue in Mythic +! Keep up the great work!
For sure, happy to help and thank you for the kind words, Hashbrown. ^^ I plan on having a bunch more rogue stuff coming up as well as other more general topics too.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue Interesting, I have my bar's in and out of stealth the exact same besides Sinister and Ambush and I can't get mine to switch when it procs!
@@TheLastHashbrown Oh, you might have just seen me when I was in the middle of shadow dance, which causes it to glow too in the footage. I usually keep a separate keybind on my 2nd bar so I can use ambush when it procs out of stealth/subterfuge/dance windows. ^^; I think I misunderstood what you meant at first.
Hi there, question, If I am coming out of stealth and I have those few seconds of using stealth skills, do I use dispatch over spamming ambush if the points or maxed, or just use ambush for those first few seconds out of stealth even if points or capped
As far as I've seen from personal use and the simulation APLs, you will still use your finishers as needed to not just waste all the CP you generated, so if you need to put Between the Eyes or Slice and Dice up, or are full and need to empty via Dispatch if your buffs are taken care of, then you still will use it during subterfuge.
I have ilvl 380 and no matter what i do i cant get over 25k consistent damage ... on a dummy. In raids where there is a lot of movement my dps falls soo low... i really lost hope and dont know what i am dping wrong ;(
Yea I have issues with single target too
What is your addons ( for rogue perf)
The biggest one is Weakauras, which is what makes up about 90% of my UI. I also use Details for my damage meters, and Edit Mode Expanded to add more features to my Edit Mode in the standard UI. Outside of that, I use SexyMap for my minimap, KUINameplates, Kaliel's Tracker for my Quest UI, and OPie for a bunch of extra things like mounts, utility, target markers, and more.
Thanks man and you have a video for explanation or how set up the addon? im new on rogue
@@samuellegault8481 I did do a video on setting up WeakAuras a long time ago and it is geared towards beginners if you need help with it. ^^
I have a question, decided to play rogue this expac and been out since legion. Do I want a dagger/faster weapon for my offhand due to increase chances of procs/energy regain? Or is it better to have a like 2 item level increase slower weapon in offhand?
Dagger lets you apply more instant poisons, but DMG gain is low iirc
The big thing for a dagger offhand is to proc more instant poisons, however it is best to sim your gear in TopGear in case your dagger happens to have bad stats. It used to be that a dagger of a slightly lower level was still better than a slower weapon offhand, but with how bad haste is right now you really should just sim your options via TopGear on Raidbots.com . (As a side note, energy procs have been normalized so it doesn't matter any more if you use a fast or slow offhand, it reasults in the same overall energy gains)
@@ZeraTheRedRogue cheers, yeah I usually run top gear but it's showing in the top three with like a 2-4 points difference 😂 I just wasn't certain on the energy procs! That's cool to know though! I think I might stick to dagger and enchant as well so I can have more flexibility with playing assass which I absolutely love this expac 😊
Thanks guys! Also this video helped to simplify the more in depth parts of the spec, when I held off more and used between the eyes with five or more CP I found it was running a lot smoother!
I definitely live by the 1-2% dps loss doesn't mean anything if it means you're alive in the end. I usually take evasion for when weirdness happens and you gotta rogue tank the packs so they don't reset if your tank gets slapped or someone pulls another 😂
@@kythox6521 you need a dagger offhand for faster auto attacking as it procs the mastery quicker as well as the fatal flourish talent to gain energy
For some reason, when I use blade flurry from stealth I don't get subterfuge, so I can't open in aoe with bf - ambush - ambush, only with ambush - bf - ambush. Idk if it's a bug, or smth on my side since I can't find anyone with that kind of a problem. What could be the reason for that?
Hm, that is very strange Kythox. The only thing I can think of is maybe do you have a racial ability bound to blade flurry or something? I used to have a similar problem where I couldn’t use adrenaline rush and stay in stealth because I had berserking the troll racial macro’d to it and berserking breaks stealth. That doesn’t quite make sense either way though as subterfuge should trigger any time you break stealth as long as you’re in combat, if you’re not in combat then it won’t so your blade flurry MUST hit something.
@@ZeraTheRedRogue tested it more, still no subterfuge after bf. I don't use macro for bf. So rn I'm abusing grapple hook bug so I grapple, it breaks stealth with subterfuge and I insta bf since grapple is an off-gcd ability. Maybe start auto-attacking into bf macro would work, will try later
Where did this guy go??? I miss the red rouge
Tbh i feel REALLY weird between the eyes without the quad crit damage
Yeah I know, it's so strange that it isn't just baked in. =/ Originally in beta I think they got rid of the quad damage entirely, but brought it back with one of the early builds. The problem is you end up having to take one or more non-DPS gain talents to pick it up, like Riposte, and it isn't worth that much of an investment in this build from the looks of it.
the roll the bones logic you have is a little incorrect, mostly bc you didnt mention the loaded dice conditionals
1) no single buff is optimal technically* assuming you have loaded dice you should always reroll (*sometimes you shouldn't due to fight about to end or you need damage in a specific window and dont want to risk a reroll)
2) there are some two buffs you would reroll (with loaded dice up) that aren't just grand melee/buried treasure, any 2 buff that does not include (snc, broadside OR truebearing, which you didn't include as a good buff, is considered subpar and SHOULD be rerolled if you have loaded dice (ex: ruthless precision and buried treasure), if you dont have loaded dice you can keep any 2 buff unless ofc it is the worst 2 buff gm/bt and in that case you would reroll regardless of loaded dice or not
3) Finally, truebearing as you mentioned is not particularly valuable to the build's overall direct damage but still maintains value as one of the 3 "good" buffs to get alongside snc and broadside primarily because of its cdr on ADR which can greatly increase loaded dice uptime, and loaded dice is crucial in maintaining this roll the bones logic, it has value essentially because rolls are more impactful with this build since you cannot preserve good rolls like you could with keep it rolling
Correct, I didn't really go into loaded Dice because regardless of if you have a singular good buff, you'd re-roll if loaded dice is active. That section was more-so to cover situations where it isn't available. The re-roll logic has also been getting worked on by the sounds of it from the TCs over on Ravenholdt which is also why I recommend and try to direct people over to the main discord since I can't exactly update a video like they can update pins, and redoing entire videos because of one section changing is a bit of a fruitless effort outside of maybe just putting up small addendum videos that link back to the original one. I also talked a lot about truebearing specifically because for 99% of outlaws existence, it has been generally considered the number 1 buff to try and get via re-rolls, which has become less true in particular with this setup since we've reached the point in Audacity uptime optimization that we're willing to throw away combo points just to trigger Audacity more often. I hopefully didn't make it sounds like Truebearing was an F tier buff now or something, just that is has dropped in the hierarchy of priority from where it's been basically since Legion. Thank you for taking the time to comment though, FBI, I appreciate the input and fact-checking as I have made mistakes here and there in the past and likely could've done a better job explaining the Roll the Bones logic as well as mentioning Loaded Dice more specifically.
Edit: Ironically since I was curious how impactful loaded dice really was to the Dance/HO build, swapping out for Swift Slasher only resulted in about a 580 DPS loss in dungeonslice, so under 1% from the sims of my character at least. I figured it'd be a larger loss than that. xD
so many guides out and i still struggle to dps as outlaw XD im 381 but i get shit on in m+ dungs, i think a huge problem is the fact that i have at at around 24% mastery or is my mind playing tricks on me ?
Mastery actually isn't that terrible any more since a lot of bugs were fixed with things not proccing Main Gauche, so I can't say that is why. Haste is pretty useless in AoE so that might be part of it, but low damage overall in a dungeon is hard to pinpoint without looking through logs and footage to see what you are/aren't doing.