Training without Training my young horse
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2022
- 18 months ago I began an experiment, when I got a 3-year old horse, Nimo, an Icelandic gelding that had basic handling but NO movement training. My goal was to see how far we could go WITHOUT any attempt to shape his body parts. No in-hand, and no micro-shaping with +R. I wanted to see how much movement skill he could develop without ANY "direction" except "It's good to keep track of the person with the target."
Using a combination of movement and motivation science, Nimo exceeded everything I could imagine.
NOTE: Yes, this could all be shaped using conventional positive-reinforcement (clicker training). With the others, they learned PantherWalk with a target for the front legs, and then reinforcing any form of walking PLUS reaching. And reinforced for "fancy trot" etc.
The point here is that I didn't DO any of that with Nimo. He was "rewarded" for almost everything he did that showed purpose.
He was never asked to reach his leg to a target. He was not incrementally shaped TO reach his leg out. He was just as likely to be reinforced for NOT doing the big reach.
I can only assume that over time with the other horses, he absolutely figured out what THEY were doing. For a long time, it was clear he KNEW there was something "fancy" about the walk. You can see in the early videos that he started doing a more upright purposeful and/or more "collected" walk as HIS version of a "fancy walk." He did not understand the point was to reach forward, and he was never asked to, but toward the end of this video, you see him start to offer it on his own.
And same with the "fancy trot".
I don't know how to make this clear: Unlike my other horses, Nimo is over and over and over again doing FAR more than he needs to. Far more than doing what "earns" a treat. He has always been rewarded for EVERYTHING as long as he keeps track of the person.
He has 100% autonomy in all activities. He can leave at any time and there is always some form of food available if he walks away.
[And yes, I'm well-schooled on "calming signals" which he quite obviously displays. Context matters... if this concerns you, see my video on the superpowers of stress. And why what matters in training for higher performance and motivation is Challenge without THREAT.]
Thank-you from my hear to the Intrinzen community and my friends who helped me as I filmed this horse in the most rewarding experiences of my life: Kara and Jeff Musgrave, Kim @r_ewild on Instagram), and Hazel Arden.
Music License:
MB01IQLL6I86I61
MB01XK62IO1AMJ7
MB01TNO614DFG3I
I mostly update on my Instagram account:
/ pantherflows - Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
What a beautiful video ❤️ Thank your for filming all of it. And yay to training less.
And thank-YOU for being a source of learning and inspiration for me 🙏😍
I started crying at around 4:40... this is so beautiful!
Oh wow Kathy, this is so inspiring! And it makes me feel extremely good because Hanni 🐴 doesn't like leg targets and targets for other areas of the body, so I "only" play with the nose target or "catch the mat" in training and see what happens out of it.
I wasn't always sure if certain movements would even be possible then, but your video shows that it can be done. 💪🔥
Thanks for this inspiration! 🙏❤️
I know how all this “works”, but still I did not realize that it is possible to do so much more with so much *less*! 💁♀️
It’s easier with Nimo for sure, because he’s the only one of mine that I did not first *damage* 😢, but if They could go back in time, I would be MORE minimal and MORE playful exploring with the others. It takes trust in nature, patience, some creativity (to always be seeking novelty) and, most of all, sense of humor 😂.
Okay, I started crying somewhere in the middle and couldn't stop till the end 🥹. Kathy, that's so incredibly beautiful 🔥♥️! Thank you for documenting Nimo's story and also for sharing ♥️
Nice
Laughing, cheering, crying...thank you Kathy 🔥 ❤
It means so much to me the share this with people who “get it.” ❤️🙏
What a beautiful boy you are Nimo, inside and out . Your video and music were perfect and on 🎯!
I was in tears by the end..😇
Thank you so much for my inspiration 🦄
This video put the biggest smile on my face 🥹 I have been training your way with my horses, and I too have these reactions of pure joy when they work it out and blow me away 😍 it was a delight to watch Nimo’s journey.
Thank you for sharing your work and being so intuitively connected to the essence of horses.
Heartwarming, inspiring, breathtaking - so much ❤️
I can’t wait until you meet him 🤗
@@KathySierraVideo me too😍
Literal tears! Watching this journey all in one gois so incredibly inspiring ...maybe next time cool it with the emotional music I don't think I can handle this much amazingness for all of my senses all at once 😅
Gotta say the sound of your voice and the look on your face in that clip of Nimo’s first really big leg reach… NOTHING sums up “superhero’s sidekick” better than that 😁💪🏼😭.
I’ll never forget that feeling I had seeing you and Jeff inspire Nimo 🤗 (and that you are still the only person who ever got Elfaxi to finally decide to take a break 🥵😅).
But sorry, I can’t help myself on the cheesy/epic/emotional/over-the-too music 🤷🏼♀️
@@KathySierraVideo I love it! I wish I had the motivation to take time to edit all of my stuff together like this. Maybe someday… Maybe winter😅
@@musgraveequestrian6550 😁it is my only real hobby 🤷🏼♀️. It’s am so happy now that I made the decision from day one with Nimo to document his “training,” even if some of it was going to be crappy phone video.
I think most people (but not you ofc) will NOT realize that this is not a montage of a few examples of his training but that this IS the only “training.” 💁♀️ He went way beyond what I imagined for such a tiny amount of “teaching”, but no doubt most of his “training” was from the other horses.
I did not know just how much he would try to emulate them!! 🙀
Nimo is amazing and truly stunning!
He is soooooo much fun, and I feel very lucky to have gotten him 😍🙏
I love it
Wow. It’s amazing 🤩
He’s so much fun 😁
Brilliant!
Thank-you Paulien! 🙏💥 So happy to have your journey to follow as well 🤗
😃 Das ist wundervoll
😍wow!
Wow ❤
So inspiring !! Really love the joy we can feel through your video ! Thank you for sharing.
Can I ask who is the singer around 5 min, love this song a lot but can't find it.
Thank you so much for this amazing video
hey, nice to see the journey.
I have a question. I have a mule and I accidentally started working liberty with her because she was much more relaxed without a line, knowing she could escape at any time. that worked very well. At some point she started to pin back her ears a lot...I can't interpret her very well. From the game face to frustration and boredom, everything is in my head. I often see pin back ears in your videos too. How do you explain that? I have the feeling that my mule is motivated...she could also go into the grass and eat...but she stay with me. the face actually says something different. I asked myself maybe the pressure for the treat is too great and that's why she felt like doing it but not really feeling like it. When I watch her on the paddock, I also can't see realy the difference between her playful expression and her serious attempt to send someone away. I can read the other horses much better then her even if i know her much better. i have massive think overs becouse of that and cant find a result... would be realy thankfull for you guesses about the pint back ears. best wishes anna
😍❤️
This is what I see: Training by bullying. It is just the same as if some bullies take your bag and make you run after them to get your belongings back. Human bullies teasing a horse and the bystanders are cheering. Some started crying, but apparently did not realize why. 😢
I respect your opinion… and you’re far from the only one who feels this way. In most traditional training contexts, horses *are* bullied into behavior. Insisting a hungry horse “chase after their food” would be awful. But that’s not at all what’s happening here, though I appreciate that it can look like that to those who don’t understand the context or who are not using the same science principles.
If you want to know what our perspective is, see my video on training with “stress” (“superpowers”) as it addresses your concerns in detail, and discusses aaaaalllll the steps we take to help reduce the chances of the horse feeling “bullied.”
I do not expect to change your view on what *you* see here, just to give more context.
I’ve been working with my horses without force for a decade. I’m hopeful that we both share a passion for horses being allowed right of consent, 100% violence-free life in a species-appropriate lifestyle. My horses live out 24/7, in their little herd, with food always available, and almost entirely “trained” in Liberty with freedom to leave and go graze or eat hay at any time. It’s not easy to create situations where horses truly DO have autonomy… especially when the potential for treats to be coercive. I typically don’t use treats… mostly just hay pellets.
Again, I respect your opinion on this and I think it’s crucial that people training with food take great care that the food is not being used coercively.
@@KathySierraVideo I got emotional when I saw this. I realize, that most people are just doing what they think is best for their horses. I had watched some of your videos and liked the information very much, so this was shocking. Thank you for answering.
@@KathySierraVideo About the hay pellets as treats. Sometimes you can do without any food reward, as the marker signal will be causing already the reward reaction in the brain. Of course the chewing does add to it.
@@northof62 again, thank-you. I admit that Im surprised you found *this* one to be shocking compared to some of the others, because I don’t exactly *hide* what I do… and most of my videos DO show plenty of examples of how I *do* deliberately work on the edges of challenge. One thing I do try to say is that I don’t advocate for anyone to do what I do.
There are a zillion ways to apply the science of movement and motivation, and I’ve been doing this much longer than most… I first used a clicker with a horse in 1999. I’m also not an expert or a “professional horse trainer.” I’m a science educator.
But I’m not afraid to keep showing literally hundreds of hours of my work.
Everyone has to do what they feel is best for their horse, and I tend to have faith in people’s abilities to know their own horse.
That said, I do not think it is possible to “know” a horse that does not have autonomy. A horse trained to obey is a horse trained to hide their true feelings.
I am the MOST wrong when I underestimate the power of a horse’s long history with force.
That’s the most joyful part of working with Nimo… he’s never known a moment in his life when he was forced to submit… forced to engage… forced into anything. It’s another reason I’m so cautious about food training. It’s way too easy to mistake “desire for the reward” for “joy in playing this game.” I’m certain I’ve made this mistake, and I must take great caution to help reduce the chances.
@northof62 I think this is a matter of knowing the context. Imagine three kids playing this game where two kids throw a ball and the third needs to try and get it. If you don't know anything about the situation it could easily be both: a fun game of three friends. Or two bullies having taken away the ball from the third kid, who is desperately trying to get it back. There are ways to assess the exact nature of the situation though. For example, is the third kid free to leave. If he says stop, will the others accept? Does the third kid start the game and encourages the others to play? If you know Kathy's work, you know that she cares about autonomy and consent above all else. And I think it clearly shows in her videos that we witness cases of voluntary engagement, not bullying.