In 1965, I was a student pilot at a FBO at El Monte Airport, about 12 miles east of Los Angeles. At that time, the favorite destination for our first solo cross country flights was Orange County Airport, many miles to the south. These days, it's called John Wayne Airport, but back then it was just Orange County. The famous Talmantz Aviation museum was there, and it was fun to fly down, tour the museum, and then fly back. We did that more than once. The navigation wasn't hard, but one of the students, a girl, could fly OK, but couldn't navigate worth a darn. Her first solo cross country flight down to Orange County didn't go well. When she got there, she called the tower and asked for permission to land. They didn't see her. Rock your wings, they said. She did. They still didn't see her but, since nobody else was around, they said OK, just land. At that time, one of my instructors was flying a Cessna 150 high up over Mount Wilson, so he could hear this conversation. He tried to get through to her, but his signal didn't reach that far. Anyway, she put her Cessna 150 down, and the last thing anyone heard was, "Oh, my God! Jeeps!" Welcome, friends and neighbors to El Toro Naval Air Station, home to US Marines, big heavy airplanes, lots and lots of aluminum overcast, and people with guns. Still, they were gentle about it. They quietly brought her into their flight office, showed her a map, and said, "you wanted to to THERE, but you are HERE," and good stuff like that. Then they made sure she was OK and had plenty of fuel, and allowed her to take off. They could have arrested her and dismantled the airplane. That was in 1965. I hate to think what they would do today.
@@diegoponpongs9095 You're probably thinking of Puddingstone Dam, which was several miles off to the northeast of El Monte, somewhere around Arcadia or Monrovia. We used it as our practice area, stalls, etc. El monte (at least back then) had a right handed pattern - take off usually to the south, turn right, cross wind, downwind turn right, and land. To the immediate west of El Monte Airport was a concrete wash, which was very large and wide, and usually filled with debris and crud. It almost paralleled the runway. If your engine quit on takeoff, you'd probably end up in the wash. Turning back would get you killed. These are very old memories - hope this helps!
Almost happened to me once in Florida. I was cleared Final for 04 at KVRB, but I was lining up on a 8 mile final for 10L at KFPR. It took me a few moments to realize that KVRB was to my left and I quickly changed course. The woman at the Tower was nice enough to check if I had the correct runway in sight as well. KVRB is extremely busy and I was distracted by circling for about 10 minutes while jets came in. Everyone just take your time and double check!
I had that happen. Was about 9 hours into my private license (School also did my Solo shortly after this) and was up on a ferry flight with an instructor and being this was training through commercial and instructor levels they put me in the soup with an instructor as had to take a plane over to a near by airport for some checks. So we got up in the air and she got our IFR clearance and off we went on our way to the other airport. We broke out of the clouds and shortly after bingo right on target for the end of the runway....Or so we thought! As we touched down to land we started to look around for the FBO and we were both scratching our heads as everything looked like it was being built. We taxied up to a building that had some guys around it and got out and asked and turned out the airport we landed at was a new airport in the middle of being built (Thank God the runway was complete at least!!) and they explained we were about 3-4 miles off as the one we were shooting for was a couple miles further west. Turns out we had not been notified of this new one and the chart we had while in date apparently did not yet have this one on the chart so when we broke out we just assumed it was the right airport. We all including the School director had a good laugh at it later and made sure that the school knew of this new airport for future reference HA HA
Ok, I agree that pilot can land on wrong RW when it is parallel to another one. But I dont't understand how to confuse the RW with a different heading 🤔😲
It is easier when you flew to that one airport and it always had runway operating in one direction and then wind changes and it is opposite of what you are used to, or when you approach that familiar field from opposite direction and do not check the compass as you should. I mean the human mind, especially when you are bit tired after long flight and distracted with so many things just tries to save energy and assumes things without verifying them.
Lol parallel runways are easy, you got two of then in front of you, one on the left and one on the right so how can you confuse it if your not tired or worked all day
I was with a friend on a flight when he was hauling freight and were landing in SLC and we're cleared for 17 which me being a local I know where that runway is in reference to 16L and 16R. If I didn't correct him he would've lined up for 16R. Night is one of the most difficult times to identify runways while 10 miles out.
I was with my dad once, holding for an airplane on final. I noticed the plane had no gear and pointed this out to him. He keyed the radio and said, "Aircraft on final, go around, check gear down." He said "Gear down" as the plane crossed in front of us and was starting to flair. He came withing just a few feet of the runway before he started to climb again. If his gear had been down I think the wheels would have touched down! My dad and I both thought for sure he was going to belly in but he made it. Is there ever a point where it is too late to go around? I mean before you cash, of course. Obviously you can't go around with a wrecked engine and bent prop.
I've seen another GA flying video: There's an airport in Florida (Orlando, I think) where there is a freeway very near the runway. Tower usually has to help night-flying pilots avoid the freeway and land on the correct runway! The freeway is far wider than the runway, too!
I was stationed at Blytheville AFB in '74 when a guy landed on the base runway and found out when Security Police surrounded his airplane he was at the wrong airport. He thought he was landing at Memphis. The Wing Commander and Base Commander were pissed having to get out of bed at three in the morning. After putting him and his passenger on the ground with M-16 toting SP's and a complete search of his airplane and about two hours of sitting in getting questioned, the Wing Commander decided to just let the FAA know about it and released him.
A very recent and well reported runway error happened at San Francisco Intl. back in July late at night. Air Canada 759 lined up on the parallel taxiway to 28R. Taxiway C was occupied by at least four airliners waiting in sequence to depart. The crew of the Air Canada Airbus made a go around with literally just seconds to spare and avoided crashing into the line of waiting jets.
Controllers and pilots speak unclearly and way too fast, I can almost never hear what's being said. So it's no surprise to me that a lot of these incidents seem to be communication related.
@Sarutoshi and Atjays, Į was thinking the samething but Į blamed my self not having good enough english. I m not a native. I am glad to see you had the same problem . So it s not me :-) :-)
Here in Tampa, I remember a Delta flight landing at McDill AFB. That's hard because TPA has two parallel runways at 360 deg, while McDill has one runway at 40 degrees. A few years ago a C-17 returning from Afghanistan landed at Peter O Knight field on the 3500' runway mostly used by Cessna's. I had to go watch it take off, it was a day long project including divers in the water and blocking off some roads. When they finally left, they lifted off with 200' to spare! No problem! That's understandable. I'm sure the crew was tired and the runways are both in a line, just 4 miles apart.
I had an interesting experience at KIXD a few weeks ago. I was IFR in VMC approaching from the south, winds were calm. On check in with approach, the controller said plan runway 18. Then 10 minutes later as I was handed off to tower by a different controller, she said expect runway 36. Checking in with tower I was instructed to enter left downwind runway 18. Approaching the pattern I noticed a plane depart runway 36 so I called the tower to verify I was in the right place which they confirmed and cleared me to land on runway 18. Clearing runway 18 the tower controller asked which runway approach said to expect so I told him the story and he understood the confusion. I always load an approach if one is available and time permits or else set my GPS to OBS mode and OBS to runway heading which worked good in this situation. I just had to keep spinning the OBS each time I got a new runway assignment :-)
Balls!!! You're never too low to go around. When I'm giving someone a BFR, on some landing when they are just seconds from touching down, I say, "There's an animal on the runway, go around without touching!" In an instant I know if they are flying the airplane or just going along for the ride.
Once the instructor made me do go around just after the touch down. And I can say it is definitely possible, the airplane is still 90% flying at that point and it takes only short distance to lift up again and avoid potential obstacles...
I'm no pilot, but that cannot possibly be true. Another very professional channel forwarded official explanations after a crash investigation, and one of the reasons for the crash was that the pilot tried to go around too late, at only 6 meters from the ground, and that the aircraft was specified to need at least 15 meters for that.
@@syntaxerror8955 If he doesn't have enough room to go around without touching, he could just do a touch and go, would accomplish the same thing without a nasty bump from a failed go around. It highly depends on the type of aircraft though.
About 15 years ago, a plane was carrying the Arkansas Razorback basketball team back to Fayetteville, AR. and landed at the Springdale, AR. municipal airport and ended up running off the end of the runway and got stuck.
Usually if there are no parallel runways, I tell the GPS to go direct to the airport that I'm landing at and then dial the OBS to essentially make me a nice purple highway down to the runway. If there are parallel runways, I push the OBS a few degrees to the right or to the left to visually remind me of what runway I'm supposed to be approaching.
A few years ago a light aircraft landed on a long road going through Leominster’s (UK) industrial estate. It hit road bumps and ended in the top most branches of a small near-by tree where it hung suspended for a few days before being removed. The local airport at Shobdon was some five or six miles away. I don’t know what happened to the pilot - I hope they were ok - but it all looked a bit comical while it lasted.
No when you at the final stages of final approach your speed is at dangerously low levels and your nose is tilted upwards, at that point it is near impossible let alone completely unsafe to abort landing as if you tried to do so you would likely stall and plummet to the ground Also touch and go is dangerous what with surrounding traffic and, in the case of busy airports, demanding time slots
kppil Yes, you are. But the AIM and ATC handbook both indicate “Sidestep" is technically a term which applies to instrument approaches. This was a visual. Sidestep might have been a better choice of words anyway (less confusing), but "circle" applies. "Circle" really just means "maneuver".
A "sidestep" is a published approach with sidestep minimums. You "circle" using circling minimums even if it is to a parallel runway if there is no published sidestep procedure.
Anytime I get "that feeling I go around; another reason I pefere to overly A/P before entering the pattern. I got the wrong runway for t/off at SFO one time because of hurried event.so not sure,stop n look to be sure...
Part of the problem is that aviation navigation and communication is vastly outdated. There's only minimal data connection between planes and ground stations and a lot of critical information is only communicated verbally. On top the radio system is still analog and therefor doesn't allow you to call a plane or controller directly but instead needs a pilot to dial into the right frequency and than monitor all the communication besides flying the aircraft. Guiding is also still very limited. Even if you perform a CAT III landing guidance is only provided in a straight line to the runway, because that's the way ILS works. Sure, there's also MLS, but who uses that? At least this part get's solved in the future when GBAS expands and finally get's it's CAT III rating. When you look at a different mode of transport, railways, aviation could learn a lot from that. Sure, rail traffic has it's own problems and part's were it's outdated and should improve, but communication is way better, or eat least it can be. Modern systems are based on digital radio communication that can transmit both, data and speech. It's more like mobile networks for your phones, and it's even based on the same technology. Thi allows the traffic controllers to directly send digital informations to the trains without the risk of misunderstanding. Sure, for air traffic the system had to be different, after all you can't just stopp a plane mid air, but it could digitally transmit the assigned runway and approach path to the navigational system of the plane. By using GNS and satellite communication this could apply to the whole flight minimizing the risk of collisions and improving the capacity of highly occupied sections of airspace. On top speech quality could be much better, reducing the risk of misunderstandings even further and the ability to directly call a plane would reduce the amount of information a pilot has to filter during final approach and therefor reducing stress. This would especially benefit smaller aircraft flown by only one pilot since one person has to do it all alone instead of having one or even two colleagues to share the workload. I don't think such a system will be implemented in the near future, probably not even in a distant future, but at least GBAS could drastically reduce the dependence on VFR. IT's way cheaper for airports and aircraft and one ground station can serve a whole airport. No more different approach system on different runways. The system will especially benefit airports with complex approach paths, for example due to obstacles like mountains.
Congratulations! You're making excellent videos! So... How do a ILS Approach really works? And what about the RNAV system? How do it get the high accuracy to do a precise approach?
When i was doing my ppl. My instructor tought me how use the the ILS ans RNAV because it'll reduce the risk of approaching a wrong runway . By the time i went to have my IR i only took 8 hours on instructions time to understand IR the rest it was having fun around .
Civvy question: "He felt he was too low to go around" - is that an actual thing? I thought that go around was essentially always available - well of course unless fuel exhausted, control impaired, etc.; but ... "too low" ?! (The only thing I can imagine is being pitch down, such that throttling up would just increase the ground impact? Even then, wouldn't that be one hell of a down pitch to feel that way about it? And one that couldn't be flared out of? Another thought, might he be already at or in stall, so that pitch up is not [immediately] available? Thus he couldn't throttle up, and couldn't pitch up, until touched down.) And would there be any benefit to a touch and go if you realized this at the top of the runway? Would that be the correct procedure?
yea i would never reload an approach for a simple side step to a parallel. but if i got discontinued for the approach and reset, or went missed for whatever reason and sent published missed instead of vectors back to final, then i would for SA. that close to threshold, eyes should stay outside with quick inst scan.
im not a pilot but these videos make me think i could fly lol i do enjoy your videos but dont see how you keep so calm any more video of the big jets ???
How can this "may not have heard" (and such) even be possible if the proper protocol with "roger that" (and suich) are used? In other contexts, I'm amazed not proper noise filters aren't applied. (I have seen other videos where the talk is drenched in white noise.) Seems like there are still a lot of fairly basic things that can be fixed and enforced more rigorously in the airline industry.
It is disturbingly easy, on my third solo flight I was approaching the airport I have been to like 5 times before but I always approached it from the opposite direction, this time, I was approaching it from the opposite direction and well somehow I focused on bunch of other things and when I could not see the traffic on final it got me worried and luckily I have realized I am in the wrong location in time and I pay close attention to which runway I am landing on, but I can definitely understand that some pilot just relies on old habits in new situation and completely misses the fact he is aligned for the wrong runway.
I had a close call once, cleared to take off I was almost at v1 when an aircraft with a faulty radio came in to land on the incorrect cross runway, ignoring the no radio guidance, windsock and the wind T - it was too close for comfort
Two questions; 1) Are you *ever* "too low to go around"? (I'm thinking touch-and-go), and 2) "Prior to the numbers circle West". Did that mean you should turn right (onto kind of a left base) and then turn a further 270 deg right before landing on 1-7 right?
I thought the same thing. It's nutty-air-nomics. Makes no sense. Burn more fuel, waste more time. Plus, no such thing imo as too low to go around if you're staring at a hazard in your wind screen.
On my first solo cross country to Palm Springs (KPSP), I used Bing Maps for an aerial view of the runways because it's common to confuse the taxi way for the runway. Then on my commercial three point 300nm back from Grand Canyon to my home airport of Montgomery, I lined up for Miramar because I was super tired. The controller asked me when I was turning base and saved my ass.
It's easy. Say you've just flown 12-18 hours and you're tired, perhaps returning from a 90-day TDY, happy to get home to Mama. We did just that a couple of times in Savannah in the 1950.s.
@Zero_Code_Name_Reaper Yup, sure was. And shortly after that he crashed that plane on the golf course shortly after takeoff. Granted that was engine failure and not pilot error, it still makes ya wonder. He crashed his helicopter too if I'm not mistaken?
If planes have transponders why doesn't the control tower automatically link an aircraft's transponder to a runway ILS data stream via computer automation? It would be as easy as adding another Indicator light to the runway approach lights. Three Green you're on the right runway, 3 red go around.
What I do not get is the thought of pilot being to low for a go around. I always thought that you would rather do a touch and go than rolling on the wrong runway not knowing if you cross another planes path. I am no pilot though, only someone who occasionally plays Flight Simulator, could any pilot explain that? Also, should a pilot not memorize the runway heading he is supposed to land beside putting it into the heading indicator as said?
Well for starters at the last stages of final approach you're speed is dangerously low and your nose ia titled upwards, at that point it's too late for a go around and the landing must be executed On your second point about touch and go this would be difficult at busy airports as all planes have to fill a time slot and a go around could waste about half an hour however I don't see any reason why not if there is a time and less forward traffic
When I was Multi Engine Pilot Training in the 80's we had a Pilot land on a disused airfield at Beaulieu Hampshire by mistake ! Luckily he missed all the potholes and his Licence suspended for 6 months subject to a satisfactory Navigation GFT !
The wrong runway is understandable, but how about landing on the taxi ways like Harrison Ford did? I see that statistic pop up from time to time and it's not just GA pilots, but commercial jet pilots do as well. What's going on there?
First, thanks for the valuable and fascinating video. Now tell me there's not a serious, serious issue when planes are not hearing the control tower. If it's crosstalk, or any other reason you can name, now tell me that's not something that is actively being eliminated through digital solutions.
Please watch the video ad a write a summary about how you could accidentally land on the wrong runway. Question can be used as guidance. Possible answers, answer may vary. • Where did the incident take place? • What was the confusion? • What happened between pilot and ATC? • How does instrument help for landing? • What is the suggestion? Please help me 🙏
What Jarno Roeder said + if you are really close to stall speed throttling back up might still take you down and you might just bounce/pogo, which can cause serious damage to the aircraft and could be very dangerous (if you tip for example).
@Jarno Roeder I think you're confusing go-around as a procedure (i.e. VFR, climb to pattern alt. and get back in the traffic pattern) with go-around as a maneuver, (i.e. balked landing, full-power, climb and clean). A plane landing IFR will execute the maneuver (below MAP/DH), and will then follow the missed approach procedure.
Video Production related question: How do you get such stable footage? Is the camera mounted on a gible, is the aircraft that free from vibration, or is it done in post with stabilisation effects? Thanks,
No gimbals, they're mounted in the spots that we've found have the least vibration. We still get it in certain phases of flight, but we try to edit those parts out. Thanks for the question!
I am an ex-airline and executive pilot. Landing on the wrong runway as an airline pilot is failed CRM in the cockpit, period. Landing in wrong runway in GA is also being distracted. With today's tech, still landing on wrong runways means a complete lack of attention by the pilots. The question however is how did it get to that? Fatigue ? Crap and bad work environment? If one wants to get to the real cause of the problem, you could find out the actual problems but again, always easiest and cheapest to blame the pilots because sure, the mistake was theirs, but that is just the top of the pyramid, the lower levels will never be addressed. That much for today's flight safety.
There are a couple of red flags on the story of the pilot who landed on the wrong runway at Buchanan Field. First, he failed to communicate properly, missing not one but two important communications from the tower, which necessitated the controller rerouting another aircraft to avoid a potential collision. Second, when told to go around, he refused, claiming he was “too low to go around”, which in any functional aircraft is never true, thus putting himself and the vehicles on the ground and the second aircraft at risk. Would he have done the same thing if the runway had been closed due to construction, and possibly crashed his plane or killed construction workers? I must mention, even as others have before me, that go arounds are practiced at all phases of landing. I have had a bounced landing where I had to go around and try it again. The rule is, when in doubt, go around! There is no such thing as too low to go around!
No matter how you slice it, this is inexcusable every time. Same thing goes for landing on a taxiway. The more "TAA" GA airplanes get, the more pilot skills go out the window.
Why can't they just color-code the runways with lights? "You're landing on green" or red or blue or whatever. It would be perfect for landing 2 to even 5 airplanes at the same time. Idk... I just think this kind of error can be handled much better by simple technology. Isn't it mind blowing that we now have self driving cars but not something as simple as color-coded runways?
The colour of a runway is irrelevant for ILS though isn't it? It'd be better to improve the digital technology and move towards more autonomy I reckon, pilots should be there as a precaution, computers should be landing aircraft in this day and age
@AcolyteOF Fire ILS (Instrument Landing System) is used by pilots to land on the runway if they don’t have Visual contact of the runway. For example, Foggy weather where you can only see up to like let’s say 200 meters. Now you wouldn’t see the lights on the runway. So pilots use ILS to land. Yes now some planes able to land with ILS autopilot, SOME not all but most pilots hand fly it to land. ILS is important and we need the technology to land the plane. Besides most chances to be in a plane crash is take off and landing and you don’t want to be in a crashing landing plane because of heavy fog.
@@acolyteoffire4077 You dont know much about aviation do you? Straight-up auto land has been around for decades, and is used in circumstances where the human CANT land the plane. Auto land lands better than pilots in virtually every instance.
i was landing at Blackpool and told to position behind a private jet which had been cleared to land....I told the Tower i didn't have visual....Then we heard "Oh Gosh Blackpool iv'e made a dreadful mistake" as he was surrounded by Military Verhicles at Warton Airfield.....Oh How We Laarfed .................
![All about runway markings [atc for you]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k_CrrAfEQHE/mqdefault.jpg)
![All about runway markings [atc for you]](/img/tr.png)
Id like to take this opportunity to thank the controller at KSAN for stopping me from landing at a military airbase that one time.
You're my hero.
You've missed out the the M16 greeting lol
WestAirAviation no this is a big mistake you have missed a great view of 4 f18’s flying with ya i have enjoyed it once or twice
@@shotofcrypto Thanks! Noonish on Jan 14th 2014.
I'm pretty sure you would be talking to a fighter jet, not an ATC.
In 1965, I was a student pilot at a FBO at El Monte Airport, about 12 miles east of Los Angeles. At that time, the favorite destination for our first solo cross country flights was Orange County Airport, many miles to the south. These days, it's called John Wayne Airport, but back then it was just Orange County. The famous Talmantz Aviation museum was there, and it was fun to fly down, tour the museum, and then fly back. We did that more than once. The navigation wasn't hard, but one of the students, a girl, could fly OK, but couldn't navigate worth a darn. Her first solo cross country flight down to Orange County didn't go well. When she got there, she called the tower and asked for permission to land. They didn't see her. Rock your wings, they said. She did. They still didn't see her but, since nobody else was around, they said OK, just land. At that time, one of my instructors was flying a Cessna 150 high up over Mount Wilson, so he could hear this conversation. He tried to get through to her, but his signal didn't reach that far. Anyway, she put her Cessna 150 down, and the last thing anyone heard was, "Oh, my God! Jeeps!" Welcome, friends and neighbors to El Toro Naval Air Station, home to US Marines, big heavy airplanes, lots and lots of aluminum overcast, and people with guns. Still, they were gentle about it. They quietly brought her into their flight office, showed her a map, and said, "you wanted to to THERE, but you are HERE," and good stuff like that. Then they made sure she was OK and had plenty of fuel, and allowed her to take off. They could have arrested her and dismantled the airplane. That was in 1965. I hate to think what they would do today.
El monte airport is next to a damm right
Ok
@@diegoponpongs9095 You're probably thinking of Puddingstone Dam, which was several miles off to the northeast of El Monte, somewhere around Arcadia or Monrovia. We used it as our practice area, stalls, etc. El monte (at least back then) had a right handed pattern - take off usually to the south, turn right, cross wind, downwind turn right, and land. To the immediate west of El Monte Airport was a concrete wash, which was very large and wide, and usually filled with debris and crud. It almost paralleled the runway. If your engine quit on takeoff, you'd probably end up in the wash. Turning back would get you killed. These are very old memories - hope this helps!
I’m sorry you had to type for so long
@@cantiibrazil Is reading hard for you?
Almost happened to me once in Florida. I was cleared Final for 04 at KVRB, but I was lining up on a 8 mile final for 10L at KFPR. It took me a few moments to realize that KVRB was to my left and I quickly changed course. The woman at the Tower was nice enough to check if I had the correct runway in sight as well. KVRB is extremely busy and I was distracted by circling for about 10 minutes while jets came in. Everyone just take your time and double check!
I had that happen. Was about 9 hours into my private license (School also did my Solo shortly after this) and was up on a ferry flight with an instructor and being this was training through commercial and instructor levels they put me in the soup with an instructor as had to take a plane over to a near by airport for some checks.
So we got up in the air and she got our IFR clearance and off we went on our way to the other airport. We broke out of the clouds and shortly after bingo right on target for the end of the runway....Or so we thought! As we touched down to land we started to look around for the FBO and we were both scratching our heads as everything looked like it was being built. We taxied up to a building that had some guys around it and got out and asked and turned out the airport we landed at was a new airport in the middle of being built (Thank God the runway was complete at least!!) and they explained we were about 3-4 miles off as the one we were shooting for was a couple miles further west. Turns out we had not been notified of this new one and the chart we had while in date apparently did not yet have this one on the chart so when we broke out we just assumed it was the right airport.
We all including the School director had a good laugh at it later and made sure that the school knew of this new airport for future reference HA HA
My hats off to pilots. It takes courage to fly in the first place and most people who know nothing of aviation take that for granted.
Southampton UK. EGHI. Runway 20/02 always a little tricky to get right in your mind!!
Ok, I agree that pilot can land on wrong RW when it is parallel to another one. But I dont't understand how to confuse the RW with a different heading 🤔😲
It is easier when you flew to that one airport and it always had runway operating in one direction and then wind changes and it is opposite of what you are used to, or when you approach that familiar field from opposite direction and do not check the compass as you should. I mean the human mind, especially when you are bit tired after long flight and distracted with so many things just tries to save energy and assumes things without verifying them.
Lol parallel runways are easy, you got two of then in front of you, one on the left and one on the right so how can you confuse it if your not tired or worked all day
I was with a friend on a flight when he was hauling freight and were landing in SLC and we're cleared for 17 which me being a local I know where that runway is in reference to 16L and 16R. If I didn't correct him he would've lined up for 16R. Night is one of the most difficult times to identify runways while 10 miles out.
I was with my dad once, holding for an airplane on final. I noticed the plane had no gear and pointed this out to him. He keyed the radio and said, "Aircraft on final, go around, check gear down." He said "Gear down" as the plane crossed in front of us and was starting to flair. He came withing just a few feet of the runway before he started to climb again. If his gear had been down I think the wheels would have touched down! My dad and I both thought for sure he was going to belly in but he made it.
Is there ever a point where it is too late to go around? I mean before you cash, of course. Obviously you can't go around with a wrecked engine and bent prop.
I've seen another GA flying video: There's an airport in Florida (Orlando, I think) where there is a freeway very near the runway. Tower usually has to help night-flying pilots avoid the freeway and land on the correct runway! The freeway is far wider than the runway, too!
I was stationed at Blytheville AFB in '74 when a guy landed on the base runway and found out when Security Police surrounded his airplane he was at the wrong airport. He thought he was landing at Memphis. The Wing Commander and Base Commander were pissed having to get out of bed at three in the morning. After putting him and his passenger on the ground with M-16 toting SP's and a complete search of his airplane and about two hours of sitting in getting questioned, the Wing Commander decided to just let the FAA know about it and released him.
A very recent and well reported runway error happened at San Francisco Intl. back in July late at night. Air Canada 759 lined up on the parallel taxiway to 28R. Taxiway C was occupied by at least four airliners waiting in sequence to depart. The crew of the Air Canada Airbus made a go around with literally just seconds to spare and avoided crashing into the line of waiting jets.
Wow, I never heard of this particular incident. Thanks for the report.
I feel that at some point ATC directing aircraft at some point needs to shift from simple radio speech communication to data communication
Controllers and pilots speak unclearly and way too fast, I can almost never hear what's being said. So it's no surprise to me that a lot of these incidents seem to be communication related.
It's like learning a foreign language. When listening to someone speak it fast you're just picking out the important parts.
@Sarutoshi and Atjays, Į was thinking the samething but Į blamed my self not having good enough english. I m not a native. I am glad to see you had the same problem . So it s not me :-) :-)
Here in Tampa, I remember a Delta flight landing at McDill AFB. That's hard because TPA has two parallel runways at 360 deg, while McDill has one runway at 40 degrees.
A few years ago a C-17 returning from Afghanistan landed at Peter O Knight field on the 3500' runway mostly used by Cessna's. I had to go watch it take off, it was a day long project including divers in the water and blocking off some roads. When they finally left, they lifted off with 200' to spare! No problem! That's understandable. I'm sure the crew was tired and the runways are both in a line, just 4 miles apart.
I had an interesting experience at KIXD a few weeks ago. I was IFR in VMC approaching from the south, winds were calm. On check in with approach, the controller said plan runway 18. Then 10 minutes later as I was handed off to tower by a different controller, she said expect runway 36. Checking in with tower I was instructed to enter left downwind runway 18. Approaching the pattern I noticed a plane depart runway 36 so I called the tower to verify I was in the right place which they confirmed and cleared me to land on runway 18. Clearing runway 18 the tower controller asked which runway approach said to expect so I told him the story and he understood the confusion. I always load an approach if one is available and time permits or else set my GPS to OBS mode and OBS to runway heading which worked good in this situation. I just had to keep spinning the OBS each time I got a new runway assignment :-)
Winds calm=We will figure it out for you when you're on base to final. lol. Consistency actually matters. Damn ATC! Come on guys. Be consistent!
@@dryan8377 Once I was practising touch & goes and the tower decided to change the direction of runways that was fun.
Balls!!! You're never too low to go around. When I'm giving someone a BFR, on some landing when they are just seconds from touching down, I say, "There's an animal on the runway, go around without touching!" In an instant I know if they are flying the airplane or just going along for the ride.
Once the instructor made me do go around just after the touch down. And I can say it is definitely possible, the airplane is still 90% flying at that point and it takes only short distance to lift up again and avoid potential obstacles...
I'm no pilot, but that cannot possibly be true. Another very professional channel forwarded official explanations after a crash investigation, and one of the reasons for the crash was that the pilot tried to go around too late, at only 6 meters from the ground, and that the aircraft was specified to need at least 15 meters for that.
@@syntaxerror8955 If he doesn't have enough room to go around without touching, he could just do a touch and go, would accomplish the same thing without a nasty bump from a failed go around. It highly depends on the type of aircraft though.
I sometimes have to do mental arithmetic just work out a runway reciprocal, if I don't have a compass rose in front of me.
I departed on the wrong runway at KGGG with expedited take off instructions and unfamiliar with airport. Easier to do than you'd think.
About 15 years ago, a plane was carrying the Arkansas Razorback basketball team back to Fayetteville, AR. and landed at the Springdale, AR. municipal airport and ended up running off the end of the runway and got stuck.
Usually if there are no parallel runways, I tell the GPS to go direct to the airport that I'm landing at and then dial the OBS to essentially make me a nice purple highway down to the runway. If there are parallel runways, I push the OBS a few degrees to the right or to the left to visually remind me of what runway I'm supposed to be approaching.
I would love to see more videos from you guys at Boldmethod. Very entertaining and informative!
A few years ago a light aircraft landed on a long road going through Leominster’s (UK) industrial estate. It hit road bumps and ended in the top most branches of a small near-by tree where it hung suspended for a few days before being removed. The local airport at Shobdon was some five or six miles away.
I don’t know what happened to the pilot - I hope they were ok - but it all looked a bit comical while it lasted.
Always tune in an instrument approach, even during a visual. Great technique to use
You can't be "too" low to go around!! My instructor said at any point you can go around, even in you have already touched down.
No when you at the final stages of final approach your speed is at dangerously low levels and your nose is tilted upwards, at that point it is near impossible let alone completely unsafe to abort landing as if you tried to do so you would likely stall and plummet to the ground
Also touch and go is dangerous what with surrounding traffic and, in the case of busy airports, demanding time slots
What does circle west prior to the numbers mean? Aren't you just sidestepping?
kppil Yes, you are. But the AIM and ATC handbook both indicate “Sidestep" is technically a term which applies to instrument approaches. This was a visual. Sidestep might have been a better choice of words anyway (less confusing), but "circle" applies. "Circle" really just means "maneuver".
A "sidestep" is a published approach with sidestep minimums. You "circle" using circling minimums even if it is to a parallel runway if there is no published sidestep procedure.
Anytime I get "that feeling I go around; another reason I pefere to overly A/P before entering the pattern. I got the wrong runway for t/off at SFO one time because of hurried event.so not sure,stop n look to be sure...
Awesome!! Keep ‘em coming!
Part of the problem is that aviation navigation and communication is vastly outdated. There's only minimal data connection between planes and ground stations and a lot of critical information is only communicated verbally. On top the radio system is still analog and therefor doesn't allow you to call a plane or controller directly but instead needs a pilot to dial into the right frequency and than monitor all the communication besides flying the aircraft.
Guiding is also still very limited. Even if you perform a CAT III landing guidance is only provided in a straight line to the runway, because that's the way ILS works. Sure, there's also MLS, but who uses that? At least this part get's solved in the future when GBAS expands and finally get's it's CAT III rating.
When you look at a different mode of transport, railways, aviation could learn a lot from that. Sure, rail traffic has it's own problems and part's were it's outdated and should improve, but communication is way better, or eat least it can be. Modern systems are based on digital radio communication that can transmit both, data and speech. It's more like mobile networks for your phones, and it's even based on the same technology. Thi allows the traffic controllers to directly send digital informations to the trains without the risk of misunderstanding. Sure, for air traffic the system had to be different, after all you can't just stopp a plane mid air, but it could digitally transmit the assigned runway and approach path to the navigational system of the plane. By using GNS and satellite communication this could apply to the whole flight minimizing the risk of collisions and improving the capacity of highly occupied sections of airspace.
On top speech quality could be much better, reducing the risk of misunderstandings even further and the ability to directly call a plane would reduce the amount of information a pilot has to filter during final approach and therefor reducing stress. This would especially benefit smaller aircraft flown by only one pilot since one person has to do it all alone instead of having one or even two colleagues to share the workload.
I don't think such a system will be implemented in the near future, probably not even in a distant future, but at least GBAS could drastically reduce the dependence on VFR. IT's way cheaper for airports and aircraft and one ground station can serve a whole airport. No more different approach system on different runways. The system will especially benefit airports with complex approach paths, for example due to obstacles like mountains.
Congratulations! You're making excellent videos!
So... How do a ILS Approach really works? And what about the RNAV system? How do it get the high accuracy to do a precise approach?
When i was doing my ppl. My instructor tought me how use the the ILS ans RNAV because it'll reduce the risk of approaching a wrong runway . By the time i went to have my IR i only took 8 hours on instructions time to understand IR the rest it was having fun around .
Hey! My training airport! (KCCR)
My home airport aswell!
Robert Sogomonian say no to kilo.
Looks awesome men great rwy
@devin john height maybe yeh, but I dunno about your weight (don't mean to be rude). Still go and check tho you never know
I got my ticket there in 2004 when I lived in Pittsburg.
Civvy question: "He felt he was too low to go around" - is that an actual thing? I thought that go around was essentially always available - well of course unless fuel exhausted, control impaired, etc.; but ... "too low" ?! (The only thing I can imagine is being pitch down, such that throttling up would just increase the ground impact? Even then, wouldn't that be one hell of a down pitch to feel that way about it? And one that couldn't be flared out of? Another thought, might he be already at or in stall, so that pitch up is not [immediately] available? Thus he couldn't throttle up, and couldn't pitch up, until touched down.)
And would there be any benefit to a touch and go if you realized this at the top of the runway? Would that be the correct procedure?
yea i would never reload an approach for a simple side step to a parallel. but if i got discontinued for the approach and reset, or went missed for whatever reason and sent published missed instead of vectors back to final, then i would for SA. that close to threshold, eyes should stay outside with quick inst scan.
im not a pilot but these videos make me think i could fly lol
i do enjoy your videos but dont see how you keep so calm
any more video of the big jets ???
How did you get that sweet overlay of flightdata on the video?
I didn't realize KCOS (team pete field) allowed personal aircraft? As we dont have an aero club
How can this "may not have heard" (and such) even be possible if the proper protocol with "roger that" (and suich) are used? In other contexts, I'm amazed not proper noise filters aren't applied. (I have seen other videos where the talk is drenched in white noise.) Seems like there are still a lot of fairly basic things that can be fixed and enforced more rigorously in the airline industry.
It is disturbingly easy, on my third solo flight I was approaching the airport I have been to like 5 times before but I always approached it from the opposite direction, this time, I was approaching it from the opposite direction and well somehow I focused on bunch of other things and when I could not see the traffic on final it got me worried and luckily I have realized I am in the wrong location in time and I pay close attention to which runway I am landing on, but I can definitely understand that some pilot just relies on old habits in new situation and completely misses the fact he is aligned for the wrong runway.
This is why I love flying from ILS to ILS and the very odd RNAV
I had a close call once, cleared to take off I was almost at v1 when an aircraft with a faulty radio came in to land on the incorrect cross runway, ignoring the no radio guidance, windsock and the wind T - it was too close for comfort
Well great job regardless👍
Two questions; 1) Are you *ever* "too low to go around"? (I'm thinking touch-and-go), and 2) "Prior to the numbers circle West". Did that mean you should turn right (onto kind of a left base) and then turn a further 270 deg right before landing on 1-7 right?
Sorry for the duplicate question on "circle". I didn't see the 1st one until after I posted.
Agree, I was thinking "wtf is too low for a go around ? -3ft ?" !
I thought the same thing. It's nutty-air-nomics. Makes no sense. Burn more fuel, waste more time. Plus, no such thing imo as too low to go around if you're staring at a hazard in your wind screen.
On my first solo cross country to Palm Springs (KPSP), I used Bing Maps for an aerial view of the runways because it's common to confuse the taxi way for the runway. Then on my commercial three point 300nm back from Grand Canyon to my home airport of Montgomery, I lined up for Miramar because I was super tired. The controller asked me when I was turning base and saved my ass.
How low are you when you begin your circling maneuver? Does that mean over the threshold?
It's easy. Say you've just flown 12-18 hours and you're tired, perhaps returning from a 90-day TDY, happy to get home to Mama. We did just that a couple of times in Savannah in the 1950.s.
There is a Hollywood actor who lands on taxiway's.
...only if he doesn't crash first :)
@Zero_Code_Name_Reaper Yup, sure was. And shortly after that he crashed that plane on the golf course shortly after takeoff. Granted that was engine failure and not pilot error, it still makes ya wonder. He crashed his helicopter too if I'm not mistaken?
Why so high on appr on the indicator?
I'm not an expert but I think that was because he was landing with the wrong runway information loaded.
How did he filmed the intro bit that resembles MFD on a G1000? As in the first 6 ish seconds??
We use an in-house developed visual effects system. Hope you liked it!
Ah, i was hoping to use it. Thanks for answering!
Very nice video.
If planes have transponders why doesn't the control tower automatically link an aircraft's transponder to a runway ILS data stream via computer automation? It would be as easy as adding another Indicator light to the runway approach lights. Three Green you're on the right runway, 3 red go around.
Small planes like Arrows and Pipers are not equipped with ILS systems that's why most of these mishaps happen with students in small aircraft
I've never been "too low" to go around (when not having wheels on the ground) any thoughts?
0:20 You can see them coming a mile away. Enough said! LOL
Is that an actual digital HUD or has that been superimposed?
Compass heading would have indicated which runway you are lined up on.
'too low' for go around?!? I'm just confused at that statement. Unless he was already on the ground or something had happened to his engine...
What about the Delta pilot that landed on the wrong runway, at the wrong airport?
What I do not get is the thought of pilot being to low for a go around.
I always thought that you would rather do a touch and go than rolling on the wrong runway not knowing if you cross another planes path.
I am no pilot though, only someone who occasionally plays Flight Simulator, could any pilot explain that?
Also, should a pilot not memorize the runway heading he is supposed to land beside putting it into the heading indicator as said?
Well for starters at the last stages of final approach you're speed is dangerously low and your nose ia titled upwards, at that point it's too late for a go around and the landing must be executed
On your second point about touch and go this would be difficult at busy airports as all planes have to fill a time slot and a go around could waste about half an hour however I don't see any reason why not if there is a time and less forward traffic
When I was Multi Engine Pilot Training in the 80's we had a Pilot land on a disused airfield at Beaulieu Hampshire by mistake ! Luckily he missed all the potholes and his Licence suspended for 6 months subject to a satisfactory Navigation GFT !
I'm not even a pilot, why am I watching this?
How do you know which runway is which
ThanosV2.0 Numbers? Compass? ILS or any instrument approach?
Two videos in a week? Is this Christmas?
Ho ho ho! Hope you liked them both - we have more on the way!
how can you be to low to go around?
Yay! My home field!
Anyone else notice Swayne Martin?
How did Tower not see him when on the chart 1L is right in front of Tower.
The wrong runway is understandable, but how about landing on the taxi ways like Harrison Ford did? I see that statistic pop up from time to time and it's not just GA pilots, but commercial jet pilots do as well. What's going on there?
"You can always go around"
First, thanks for the valuable and fascinating video.
Now tell me there's not a serious, serious issue when planes are not hearing the control tower. If it's crosstalk, or any other reason you can name, now tell me that's not something that is actively being eliminated through digital solutions.
Please watch the video ad a write a summary about how you could accidentally land on the wrong runway. Question can be used as guidance. Possible answers, answer may vary.
• Where did the incident take place?
• What was the confusion?
• What happened between pilot and ATC?
• How does instrument help for landing?
• What is the suggestion?
Please help me 🙏
Happened to me on my first night flight with my instructor, lined up for 36 instead of 31 but then tower cleared us to land on 36 instead 😅
How are you too LOW to go around?!
What Jarno Roeder said + if you are really close to stall speed throttling back up might still take you down and you might just bounce/pogo, which can cause serious damage to the aircraft and could be very dangerous (if you tip for example).
@Jarno Roeder I think you're confusing go-around as a procedure (i.e. VFR, climb to pattern alt. and get back in the traffic pattern) with go-around as a maneuver, (i.e. balked landing, full-power, climb and clean). A plane landing IFR will execute the maneuver (below MAP/DH), and will then follow the missed approach procedure.
When you're in the hangar
Hey does anyone have a good sugar cookie recipe
Video Production related question: How do you get such stable footage? Is the camera mounted on a gible, is the aircraft that free from vibration, or is it done in post with stabilisation effects?
Thanks,
No gimbals, they're mounted in the spots that we've found have the least vibration. We still get it in certain phases of flight, but we try to edit those parts out. Thanks for the question!
Wow! Stable aircraft! Thanks for the reply and love the content!
I am an ex-airline and executive pilot. Landing on the wrong runway as an airline pilot is failed CRM in the cockpit, period. Landing in wrong runway in GA is also being distracted. With today's tech, still landing on wrong runways means a complete lack of attention by the pilots. The question however is how did it get to that? Fatigue ? Crap and bad work environment? If one wants to get to the real cause of the problem, you could find out the actual problems but again, always easiest and cheapest to blame the pilots because sure, the mistake was theirs, but that is just the top of the pyramid, the lower levels will never be addressed. That much for today's flight safety.
Curious what, exactly, "Before the numbers" means
They're referring to the runway numbers - painted on the beginning of the runway!
That’s reassuring ‘
Legit vid. Subbed
There are a couple of red flags on the story of the pilot who landed on the wrong runway at Buchanan Field. First, he failed to communicate properly, missing not one but two important communications from the tower, which necessitated the controller rerouting another aircraft to avoid a potential collision. Second, when told to go around, he refused, claiming he was “too low to go around”, which in any functional aircraft is never true, thus putting himself and the vehicles on the ground and the second aircraft at risk. Would he have done the same thing if the runway had been closed due to construction, and possibly crashed his plane or killed construction workers?
I must mention, even as others have before me, that go arounds are practiced at all phases of landing. I have had a bounced landing where I had to go around and try it again. The rule is, when in doubt, go around! There is no such thing as too low to go around!
My hometown airport. Best training airport
I’ve literally watched someone land a turbo commander on an active taxiway, I’m sure it happens a lot.
No it most certainly doesn't!
No matter how you slice it, this is inexcusable every time. Same thing goes for landing on a taxiway. The more "TAA" GA airplanes get, the more pilot skills go out the window.
Why can't they just color-code the runways with lights? "You're landing on green" or red or blue or whatever. It would be perfect for landing 2 to even 5 airplanes at the same time. Idk... I just think this kind of error can be handled much better by simple technology. Isn't it mind blowing that we now have self driving cars but not something as simple as color-coded runways?
The colour of a runway is irrelevant for ILS though isn't it? It'd be better to improve the digital technology and move towards more autonomy I reckon, pilots should be there as a precaution, computers should be landing aircraft in this day and age
@@michaelfarrell4824 disagree heavily with computers landing stuff, far too dangerous, and relies way to much on technology.
@AcolyteOF Fire ILS (Instrument Landing System) is used by pilots to land on the runway if they don’t have Visual contact of the runway. For example, Foggy weather where you can only see up to like let’s say 200 meters. Now you wouldn’t see the lights on the runway. So pilots use ILS to land. Yes now some planes able to land with ILS autopilot, SOME not all but most pilots hand fly it to land. ILS is important and we need the technology to land the plane. Besides most chances to be in a plane crash is take off and landing and you don’t want to be in a crashing landing plane because of heavy fog.
There's so much wrong with this haha. Let me guess. Not a pilot?
@@acolyteoffire4077 You dont know much about aviation do you? Straight-up auto land has been around for decades, and is used in circumstances where the human CANT land the plane. Auto land lands better than pilots in virtually every instance.
i was landing at Blackpool and told to position behind a private jet which had been cleared to land....I told the Tower i didn't have visual....Then we heard "Oh Gosh Blackpool iv'e made a dreadful mistake" as he was surrounded by Military Verhicles at Warton Airfield.....Oh How We Laarfed .................
No, I land in fields or on beaches.
Hi, the pilot should never feel confused, if you confused go around!
Who got the footage of CRP at 3:45? What type aircraft is that?
stingerjc i think 787
Can't be, 787s don't go into CRP. I'm thinking one of the Embraer regionals..
4:00 what's that thing called?
HUD, head up display
iRx Destiny thx
I'm not a pilot!
Why am I watching this?
Wow. The closed captioning on this is bad :D
Auto CC really doesn't like flight videos.
Hey, mistakes happen. How do you think the kids got here?
This guy looks like a younger BUZZ ALDRIN
What would happen if you land on a TAXIWAY?
709 ride. Might as well declare an emergency. But his radios are useless anyway.
Do like Harrison Ford and land on the taxiway!
How can you land on a taxiway instead of a runway? Ask Harrison Ford!
Heyy! KSLC
quilty!
Hey CCR is my airport! Sounds like PSA XDD
Super easy, simply put the radio off ;)
Happens when you let the airplane fly ahead of you.
Why am I watching this when I don't fly?