A Different Way for a Common Point Bond in a Ham Radio Station With Jim Heath W6LG
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- Опубліковано 25 жов 2023
- Using a metal box that contains electrical outlets like one made by Belkin, Jim bonds his equipment to the electrical system ground. This is the way Jim bonded his equipment on Wolf Mountain for 40 years.
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Thanks for this, Jim. After 21 years I'm getting back into the hobby. I previously used the braided wire and agree that it's great. I'm going to follow your advice and try this for. my new shack. 73 Scott NF7Y
Thank you for this. Sometimes we need to see many things many people assume everyone automatically knows about. This video, and showing everything, was big help.
Many dont log in or have an accoubt but they watch.
I rarely comment but you've always been a huge help. Its so appreciated. Thank you so much.
Many do not have Elmer's or even clubs near them. It's people like you who help us. Plus, youre nice and patient, not weird, not rude, not arrogant.
A lot of integrity, knowledge, and class.
You've helped more people than you realize.
Very kind of you to write. Thanks very much. 73, Jim W6LG
@fencepost5178, do you mind if I paraphrae or quote you in the nesr future? I can relate to it.😀😁
Thank you for being an Elmer to all of us.
@Jim W6LG just a quick signal from the grave, Roland Harvey taught me a lot even after he died. I got to clear out his basement and I grew very fond of the history. W6LG this is W7EEE wishing you the best of the goodnight!
Thanks Jim for your channel. You are helping a lot of people. I love your wisdom and knowledge. We are so lucky to have you!
I like the idea of augmenting a read-made power box for this function. There's really no need to invent everything! Thanks for the tip.
There was a ham with a beautiful converted shack, i think, in garage. Well set up, vintage and new equipment. Such a nice collection over the years. I belueve the fire that started and destroyed, pretry muc, everything and so lucky the entire house did not burn down, but he shared on his website that the fire started from using plastuc, not metal, surge protectors. He shared why he will only use metal casing surge protectors/power strips. He explains why plastic ones are not as safe.
Thanks for the help and information. 73, Jim
Makes perfect sense, using a plastic housed surge protector doesn't sound very smart to begin with, that would be like a Glock pistol having a composite barrel with a steel frame..lol 😂 Sadly, America's products chain has been compromised by useless Chinese garbage that is more of a liability than something being marketed as a "Safety" feature.
Thank you for continuing to share your knowlege with us. DE KI7CDG, N7QBN and KK7FCI
Thanks, Jim.
Great advice! Thanks Jim.
Great idea, and very simple.
Thanks Jim! 👍👍👍
Thank you. Good information!
Thank you! Neat idea!
Thanks Jim, this was valuable information thanks for sharing, 73.
Great idea the use of the braid of the 213 for this!
Good advice, nicely presented. I live in Okinawa, Japan. The Japanese electrical supply system does not use a neutral bonded ground rod at the customer location (It's only grounded at the distribution transformer.) The electrical system supplies 100-0-100V 60 Hz split phase power to the customer. They do use a small ground rod connected only to the ground on 200 V appliances and any equipment located near water and a whole house GFCI breaker. So, my station has an 8 ft ground rod located outside the radio shack that I use as the common ground point. All shields on RF cables, rotor cables, and shack equipment connect to this ground. Every wire or cable that enters the shack (except the ground cable) has a lightning protector on it with the ground connected to the ground rod. I use braided bus cable and heavy stranded welding cable to do the interconnects. Lastly, I power the station with LiFePO4 batteries that are on a charger. I can also charge from solar or a generator. We live in an area that gets strong typhoons almost every year, thus the emphasis on backup power. JS6TRQ / WC8J
Thanks Jim always interesting!!
You are very welcome, 73, Jim
Great idea and work Jim. My shake is in the 2nd floor and this is ideal. '73 DE K4HJ
THANK YOU Jimmy, you've given me much to think on with this, and then get going...
Great. Be careful and have fun. 73, Jim
Great idea! Those beefy Belkin strips are great, I'm going to give this a try.
Thanks, Jim W6LG
Thanks Jim
Cold last night up there! 73, Jim
Case of power distribution box assembly is bonded to safety ground pin of wall outlet. So bolts are connected to the wall outlet ground.
Thanks Jim. Interesting advice about the common point ground rod and demonstrations of station/system grounding; and the electrical code requirements require further research on my part for my situation. Anyway, my interest is increasing due in part to your electronic briefings...fm
sure would like to see it Jim, when you get it all connected together...tks for sharing...
Thank you, Jim. Have a great week.
N0QFT
Jim I like your idea of making a common ground bond on the Belken box.
You statement of not adding an RF ground rod for the ham station is so correct, because aside not following The NEC Code for AC power distribution, there is no such thing of an RF ground over the whole ham bands. It's an issue of wavelength vs physical length needed to meet the same floating point potential. It doesn't work over decades. The only other standard to follow is that for lighting protection.
Your ham presentations on youtube are inspiring for us radio operators.
best, 73s
kb3bf, Chris
Licensed PE (Md.)
looks like a good idea!
Thanks, Jim
That's a great idea.
Thanks, Jim
Welcome back Jim and so happy back on UA-cam how is your health I had a friend he died blood cancer leukemia please take care of your health I like to see you on UA-cam videos keep do them and get well soon 😀
I like this simple solution and will do it as shown for my shack. I have gone too long with no bonded ground.
Thank you Jim for this ..i see maybe 2-3% of operators do grounding and of that 2-3% its only the radio and mostly wrong (wire that is less in diameter (and current rating) that the current drawn by the radio efficiently making a low current fuse!) as you mentioned all devices that are not double insulated (class 1 devices) should be grounded radios, vswr meters,"tuners",coax switches amps ,scopes etc etc .The braided grounding strap is the best way for sure however you can slow the effects of corrosion by using internally glued heat shrink .The added effect proper grounding can reduce rfi (back in to the mains system effecting other devices around the building or neighborhood)) and received man made noise from entering the system .Keep up the great work .
Thank you im, more useful information. I like the idea of the Belkin plug boxes.
I got my license in February 2023 and have been struggling ever since to figure out the best way to set up my 2nd floor shack. As of today (Nov 2023) I'm only using 100 watts. But I have a 1500 watt vintage linear on the way (Kenwood TL-99a) that will change the game in many ways. My big issue is the location of my shack in my house.... it's on the 2nd floor directly over my driveway (so I can't put a ground rod below the window). My antenna is a multi-band wire antenna ("Carolina Beam" by the now defunct Radio Works company). But the antenna is in the back yard and my shack in on the front of the house. And my electrical service panel is in the garage about 25 feet away and the ground in the back yard will be more like 35 or 40 feet. Note: I've been doing ok without an RF ground, but my noise floor varies from S3 to S9... so significant. I expect serious issues with RF in my shack when I'm pushing a kilowatt.
I plan to replace my service panel and install a 220 volt circuit to feed my shack and I think I will also install a dedicated 20 amp 120volt breaker for the shack as well (to help isolate office noise sources). I also plan to drive at least 3 ground rods (per NEC) so that I can ground my antenna incoming cables at the lightning protector (remember.... this spot is 35 feet from my upper level shack).
I will plan to run a large safety ground directly to the new service panel, using the new 20amp circuit.
My dilemma is how and whether to create an RF "ground". and should it go to the new ground rod in the back yard, or down to the new service panel in the garage?
and if I run 20-35 feet of braid will that just be a big antenna?
I've also read that I can create an RF ground using 1" diameter copper pipe, which has about the same surface area as a 3.14" wide flat strap.
Will that be better or the same as copper braid?
73, Bruce
I have my 40m vertical grounded to rod at the base because it’s just a giant lightning rod. plus the radials will short to ground over time as the sheathing deteriorates.
Das Gut Danke!
Great video as always Jim. My Father always used Flat braid ground straps when bonding all of his ham gear due to its large surface area over the commonly used round grounding wire.🤠👍🇺🇸
I have always seen flat copper braid used in the auto industry connecting the engine to the frame.Investigating this matter has led me into a very deep rabbit hole. Some say DC current goes through the wire yet AC rides on the surface.
Next I should measure the ohms of various materials.
I would put a star lock washer under the head of the bolt on the inside. This will help to bite into the metal and add to the electrical connection.
I love you, Grandpa
It did my heart good to see you touting braided straps for bonding. I retired after forty-two years in electrical engineering, and I was known for coming into difficult to troubleshoot intermittent system problems with pairs of Vice-Grip pliers and a reel of braided strap. I can't tell you how many times it was the needed solution for flaky, intermittent problems on out laboratory works.
we should all pay attention to what W^LG is isaying.... I was considering hammering a ground rod in the ground for a base antenna set-up, now I will refrain beacsue I am not sure if I would interpret the NEC and Jim recommends consulting the NEC.😀
I went the other way. Ground rods just outside shack, bonded to house lightning protection grid (lot more ground rods) and also bonded to water/gas/HVAC, etc). All hamshack equipment has AC supply grounds decoupled from DC grounds, and AC safety grounds now supplied by shack common point ground, rather than the AC grounds from electrical panel.
Bonded to gas? Doesn't the pipe run through the earth?
@@flyingjeff1956 yes. I want all utilities to rise and fall in voltage, together.
Jim.I had several strokes- getting around ver well cosidering m disability. Hope you are doing well. From NH, Al in Manchesterr
Hi Jim. I am kind of confused as to why this is a thing? Modern stuff is low voltage DC whilst older equipment will be earthed via the mains plug. Am I missing something? If I have terminology wrong please forgive an englishman😊
Thank you so much for this, Jim, it's very helpful indeed! You've answered exactly the question I had about ways to create a single-point ground. One potentially silly question: Is it ok if the ground straps from each device come into contact before they even get to the single-point ground? Or, should the connection between them only be made at their destination (in this case, the steel power strip)? Thanks again!
The straps will create a ground loop unless you lift the ground pin on your cords to your equipment.
Nice video Jim, as UK electrician I do not know the US electrical codes or regulations as we call them over here and I am always critical of amateurs just sticking in a earth rod for the shack without realising the implications if a rare earth fault occurs from the incoming supply, as most of the time they do not know the type of supply they may have.
Your proposed method is certainly a better solution to the voltage gradient problem.
In my shack I use an earth rod ( not in the ground but strapped horizontally to the back of the table)as a bus bar with my flying earth leads connected to this and directly to the earth connection of the socket, its probably the best I can achieve.
Understood. Almost everywhere, an extra path to ground can defeat the tripping of a breaker. Almost everywhere I have checked, all current must flow back to the breaker panel. Thanks, Jim W6LG
We certainly have a different situation in the UK (although of course the physics is the same) TNC-S is a nightmare when you consider the possibilities of faults outside the property.
Would you say (here in Australia) that I could achieve the same effect without a metal-chassis power board, by using a copper pipe, to which all the ham equipment is bonded, and then run one earth cable from that into my (plastic) power board via a 3-prong plug with only the earth wire?
@@jonathan_bass That appears to be how I am doing it, I am not sure of the electrical installations or Utility / metering connections in Australia but I know there can be differences between it and here in the UK.
This look great for electrical safety in the shack, but I still need a lightning ground for the antenna/mast. Is there any alternative besides a ground rod and then bonding it to the house ground? I live in Iowa and we have very big electrical storms in the spring and summer.
I just take a replacement plug and only hook up a wire to the ground pin only.. other end of wire goes to a breaker panel buss bar part. $3 for outlet, under $1 for wire, $8 for breaker panel buss bar so less than $15 i have screw terminals for connections to about 20 items. No its not a true to ground rod earth ground but it bonds all the gear together and give somewhat of a ground path.. this works well for 2nd floor home shack or apartment / high-rise
Okay. Thanks, Jim
Would you say (here in Australia) that I could achieve the same effect without a metal-chassis power board, by using a copper pipe, to which all the ham equipment is bonded, and then run one earth cable from that into my (plastic) power board via a 3-prong plug with only the earth wire? Is this the kind of thing you did?
Thanks for a great video. Can you please post the link to the split white conduit that you used? Thanks.
Hey Jim, thanks for the video! I have two probably basic questions that hopefully you or someone in the comments will answer. First, should the box only be used for attaching the bonding braid, or can I also plug devices into the outlets? Second, I understand not daisy-chaining the braid between components, but is it OK to connect individual braids from different components to the same screw on the box? Thanks again for all the informative videos.
Same questions also from me :)
Yes. And my "stuff" is plugged into that box and another one. 73, Jim
I did much the same for my 2nd floor shack. I did bury a 5 ft ground rod below my window and tied two more rods to it 6 ft and 10 ft away in serial fashion with #6awg copper wire for good measure. This was because my house ground is in the extreme opposite corner of the house and it is not possible for me to run a bonding wire to it directly. The three rods go to a lightning arrestor and from there to the shack via 20 ft of 1" braid that I stuffed inside some PVC flex conduit. I also mounted a grounding bus-bar just inside my window pass-through and tied it via a 2 ft length of 1/2" braid to the ground lug in the nearest outlet that feeds the radio stack. So my radios are star-grounded to the bus-bar and power grounded to the house ground and the RF ground. The only thing I can't do anything about is keep that 20 ft length of ground braid from acting like an antenna on its own, but I suppose that's a problem all 2nd floor hams face. 73 JS2OLO
Assume there is a lightning strike nearby. This strike produces currents running to it in the dirt. Two points in the dirt will therefore see a voltage difference because of the current running in the resistive dirt. Two rods in the dirt will have this voltage difference. A wire connecting the two rods will provide a path with lower resistance than the dirt. The current produced by the lightning will now see the wire between the two rods as a lower resistance path and so will run up one rod, along the wire, and out the other rod.
If you have ground rods stuck in the dirt at opposite ends of your house and connected to your house ground wire, you are now inviting the lightning current to use your house ground wiring as its preferred path.
That is why ALL ground rods MUST be connected with heavy gauge wire EXTERNALLY to the house. The house interior ground wiring web should be only connected in one place - at the breaker box - and not providing a circuit for the lightning current.
Draw your grounding situation on paper. Imagine a nearby lightning strike producing currents in the ground. Does that strike current see your house ground wiring as a better conductor than the dirt for the points between your power-panel ground and your 3 station grounds? Yep, you’ve now got lighting current running in you house.
One last thing. One of Jim’s points is that there is no such thing as (or need for) RF ground. The station ground in the shack needs only use the house ground pin. The “grounding” that you want is for all the equipment chassis to be interconnected with a low RF impedance so that all the station chassis are at the same RF potential. If the chassis are at the same RF potential, then there is no RF current flowing, and they chassis won’t act as a transmitter. The chassis RF potential relative to the dirt potential is unimportant. Your handhelds don’t connect to the dirt. Airplanes don’t connect to the dirt. Why does your station need to connect to the dirt?
@@713allen Thank you for the long post, and sorry for not seeing it until now. While I understand the need to avoid voltage differences between station grounds and house grounds, my case is a bit different from most. I'm surrounded by steel structures not the least of which is a giant all-steel supermarket that was just built to my great chagrin not 15 feet out my back door (it was a lovely rice field when we bought the house). There's an open storm drain, a kind of concrete-lined ditch, that runs between my house and the supermarket that serves as our back property line. 12 huge 25 meter long steel pilings were drilled into the dirt to support the structure making it a giant lightning sink that I'm sure will dissipate any strikes that occur on the building or in the neighborhood. And since all the houses here, including mine, have very small yards the chance of a yard strike in the midst of all that steel is very low indeed. Instead, I have other problems to worry about, the biggest of which is that nearly all my neighbors, including that big supermarket, have huge solar panel arrays on their roofs which makes my poor little station perched on a balcony in the middle of all that high tech an absolute QRM nightmare. That was the primary reason for grounding my station the way I did, so I at least wouldn't have a floating ground to worry about. I think it lowered my noise floor a little bit as I am now able to hear Australia occasionally, but not clearly enough to make a good QSO. The QRM problem has been my greatest challenge with ham radio -- any ideas to reduce it are most welcome. 73 JS2OLO
Hey thanks for the info Jim how long is the wire for that Belkin metal surge protector all i find is 15ft 73's
Great video Jim good information I need the setup my I just have my antennas well grounded to Erath grounded hope you are doing well Jim Ted Dean KD2ARD....
Great video.Made one for my radio and antenna tuner.Moved to a house with HOA restrictions.Had a dipole before.Thinking about getting a mag looop from PreciseRF.I could mount it on a tripod on put it on my covered porch.What do you think?Thanks
The box element looks like a great idea. I don't have a ground rod, my home is earthed to the foundation. How can I earth my dipole for lightning protection if I can't bond to the house? Thank you for the help.
That is a good system for a single small rig setup, as the plug for you box usually plugs into a 20 AC outlet. How would you mitigate that with a separate Ham shack building with 3 or more complete stations ? You would have to have a separate box for each station on a separate 20 amp circuit breaker. The linear would be on a 220 V separate circuit breaker. In my shack, All the coax from outside have there lightning arresters attached to a large copper ground bar running to a driven ground rod which is common with the tower base ground system. I don't know if that would be up to code. All my equipment goes single point to a copper pipe on the wall which is connected to the ten foot ground rod and lightning arrester bus bar. Is there an issue there ?
Jim, nice video. Would you pls have the links to the parts (screws, braided wire, wing nuts and washers)? Thanks in advance.
Have you done a video on Antenna grounding. I understand your grounding to one point inside the house but what about the antennas outside? I see people driving ground rods by their antenna towers or roof installs to ground the antenna / coax. I'm not sure I'd want a antenna strike to come into my homes grounding at the panel.
I have a dummy ac plug taking ground to my lightning arrester on my 213. also to drain off ant static If can , on 2nd floor apartment
If there is ever a problem with corrosion would double strapping help? (Resistors in parallel.) Then again, good maintenance should eliminate any corrosion problem
Jim
Great idea BUT the current model of this power strip made by Belkin does not have screws on the side that allow removing the side plate to drill holes and install the screw terminals.
It is now riveted. So you would have to drill the rivets out and replace them with metal screws. just wanted to let you know.
Richard
.
lol, probably because of this video 🤣🤣🤣. I’m sure billion dollar companies love the idea of novices opening up electrical boxes and modifying them.
I did similar but used a ground bar with several spots but ran a 3/4” braid down to a ground rod which attaches to the ac compressor grounding 😉 which is linked to the several other rods going back to the panel. I use a isobar ac filter which is now causing noise on Tx so next thing to diagnose, isn’t it wonderful when a piece of suppression gear causes interference 😮😊
Excellent. Thanks for the description. 73, Jim W6LG
Jim, I do hate these boxes that use ONLY the cover plate screw (into plastic only!) to secure the outlets. They sure feel flimsy when you push the plug in. Cheap design.
That's very smart! It's a true safe way to bond things together. Running to a separate ground rod would actually be dangerous and likely would cause strange issues.
how are bolts connected to ground inside power strip, or are you just relying on washer contact around bolts?
Jim, I just bought this exact model of surge suppressor and was disappointed to see rivots on the outside case instead of screws. Did you have to get rid of the rivots and replace those with screws?
I guess that's what I am about to do. :/
Very nice idea Jim. I have a 3/4" copper pipe, 6 feet long mounted to the wall behind my bench that has all my gear connect via copper straps. I run a copper strap from each piece of equipment to that GND. pipe. The pipe has a copper strap run outside the house wall (about 2 feet) to the GND rod just outside the shack. I have several GND rods around the house from this point to the utility service GND pipe, all these are interconnected with #6 stranded copper Gnd wire. My concern has always been, my 120V metal power strips utility grounds inside the power strip. That length of run back to the utility service panel is about 50 feet, a rather long way for the 120V Gnd . So, I am thinking now about running a copper braid from each power strip to the copper pipe that I use for the equipment common point Gnd. Any thoughts?
Nice video topic Jim, wondering how the higher voltage of the AMP gets fed from the 110V power strip? ;-) I personally am in favor of the Trip Lite Isobar Ultra power strips. They are exceptional in their build quality. Lastly, did you remove or scrape away paint/finish from the mount point of the grounding screws/lugs? Thx Art W1SWL
Yes Art, I should have said that about the paint. I guess it seemed obvious..but I should have said that. Okay on Trip Lite, thanks for the advice and help. 73, Jim W6LG
I think the Trip Lite isobar breaker is 12amps and the Belkin Jim showed is 15a. The Trip lite is probably a better product and costs more than 2x the Belkin.
I found it interesting but in my "shake" I only have the radio, power supply, computer and monitors. So my question is, do you bond your computer and monitors to the box or do you just use the power cord to tie it in in?
I’m confused about how to attach the braid to the screw/wingnut combo. Isn’t the braid going to mostly be outside of the surface area covered by the wing nut?
I used large flat washers. 73, Jim
There’s been so much conversation and speculation about grounding and bonding. Seems like we should pivot to measurement instead of theory. Can we not build some devices that we can put inline to our grounding and bonding straps to measure any currents ever flowing across the ground, effectively measuring potential differences?
Seems like this could measured and recorded and we could conduct experiments to prove or disprove all the theories.
At present I think there’s more speculation than hard scientific evidence supporting bonding and grounding practices/theories.
Hi Jim, I'm in an 8th floor condo here in Toronto. Grounding is a challenge and a concern so I found your video interesting. I just wanted to clarify, will this installation act as an equipment RF ground/bonding? Hope you're keeping well. Norbert
Yes, bonding and connection to grounding. 73, Jim
Im not sure about modifying UL listed items if we care about NEC. I wonder if bonding a copper bar (with the screws and wing nuts) to one of the existing screws would work to achieve the same goal.
That is a good point but I'm sure if you take the modified power strip to a UL Laboratory with a large Check it will get certified.
Very good set of advice. This solution works well and I also prefer wire braid. My bench also has a piece of copper running along the back of each shelf to make it easy to solder or clamp new or temporary equipment to the ground with a short jumper. If it stays, I will make a permanent connection to the ground plate.
If I may add to your advice: If you have a tower, it also needs to be grounded and at that point I highly recommend that you get an electrician involved, even if the code in your area does not require it. Also task the electrician with providing grounding at your building entrance for lightning arrestors, and then get the electrician’s recommendations on additional grounding for your shack. Ham radio is not a cheap hobby, particularly if it comes to destroyed equipment and your safety, so think of the cost of the electrician as insurance. The electrician will know where he can legally and safely put ground rods and how to bond them together, and if your electrician is also a ham, it is a bonus!
Hi Jim, I've built the project with the same Belkin box exactly as you describe. One question I have is whether I can I remove my MFJ Artificial Ground since it no longer serves a purpose?
Yes
Nice video, my question is: What is the max AMP rating of the electrical strip? Thanks Jim
15a. Here's the pdf details on that Belkin F9D1000-15 power strip. m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91iWqp6fWzL.pdf
I live in apartment building would that work really good
Did you drill the out rivets out on the surge protector to open it? If so how did you reconnect the cover? I’m guessing self tapping screws? I’m going to make this exact grounding system this weekend. Already have the belkin power strip. Trying to figure out exactly what I need to grab at the hardware store tomorrow. Thanks!
No rivets in the box to remove. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio The Belkin I've got does have rivets, so maybe there are different models. Guess I'll be drilling them out.
@@timbaetenI know this is 4 months old but I did end up drilling out the rivets. Worked fine
Stupid question to follow. I assume that since it’s a metal box that it is grounded to ground in the 110 outlet and the bolts are just picking up their ground from being in contact with the cover?
Yes. And it is 120 volts for many decades. 73, Jim W6LG
I know grounding is absolutely key, especially when you live in the eastern U.S. I live in Nevada. Driving a ground rod, or a dozen, has no impact. I have three radios hooked up to continuous power (two are hooked up to my power supply). The third has a built in power supply (2 HF, one UHF/VHF). I utilize the power company's grounds. There are plenty of circuit breakers inline that should trip before anything bad happens. But then, my biggest worries are earthquakes. A ground rod will not help that.
Rural Nevada or in town?
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 Reno. This is where it gets really fun. The ground rod’s absolutely suck!!! I have a call into the power company to check the neutral (they are slow and are losing a lot of power). My power is so bad that I get a 60 Hhz hum even on my iPad! My waterfall display which is my IC-7610 has an amazing 60 breakout connected through a power supply. The main antenna is a Half wave end fed 40 meter, which is completely isolated. When I take my iPad out to my POTA or even the car, the signal is crystal clear with 60 Hhz pure sin wave.
@@jamiesuejeffery Oh! If you were in the wilderness, I would use a well for ground.
Thank you Sir, this solves many problems us hams have with stations too far from or that are unaccessible to the service panel.
Can you now do a video on how this is complementary to or not, to the lightning suppression you use?
Could you show your finished product including the inside of your power bar once it is wired up and grounded. Michael VA6XMB
I cannot. It is in place and screwed down to the deck. I am very disabled and spent too much time under the desk already. I get pushed around in a wheelchair some of the time. Sorry I cannot do what you need. 73, Jim W6LG
Okay. I understand. It sounds like we are in a similar state of health. I really enjoyed your video - all of them. I was just wondering if you connected the screws to each outlet, I’ll figure it out. I have my power bar on order - it should arrive in a day or two. Please keep your videos coming I know several Hams who follow your videos and enjoy them immensely. Thanks. Michael VA6XMB 73,
I have lots of welding cable but everyone feels braid is better. I wonder why braid was never used for welding. Do you think insulated 2/0 or 4/0 welding cable is not a suitable ground for some reason?
Sounds good to me. 73, Jim
Flat braid has a larger "Surface area" over a round wire. Keep in mind RF current travels via the "Skin effect" (uses the Surface of a conductor) not the center of a conductor, and a ground wire or braid doesn't need to be insulated.
As for a braid used for welding?, a flat braid isn't practical especially over long lengths because it would be prone to kinks as opposed to a round wire conductor, especially when working on or around a shop or jobsite.😏👍
Each strand of a wire, welding or otherwise is a surface. Welding wire has many strands thus lots of surface area not just the the area you see on the outside of the braid. If you flatten a welding cable out with a hammer it will appear as though it is bigger from what you can see though it has not really gotten any bigger. Just my thoughts trying to understand the physics of all this. Thanks for your input.@@UDX4570PalmSprings-yh1mv
@@OhmSteader Totally understood but. The only portion that is physically used is the furthest most outside skin of the whole bundle, and all inner strands aren't touched whatsoever, this is one main reason why flat braid is favored over round wire because of its surface area.
Get a copper penny and roll it up like a bugger and measure its surface, then get an identical penny and put it on a ChooChoo train track and let the train run it over, then measure the surface, which would have the most surface area?
With that reasoning welding cable could just as well be a little patch of wire around a rope to make it lighter and cheaper.@@UDX4570PalmSprings-yh1mv
Are you still using the straps in the walls?
Yes, the room is lined with foil and there are wide copper strips. I was paranoid about neighbors and interference. It was likely a waste but that is what I did 4 years ago. 73, Jim
Wow - you are really hardcore! hihi.
He says, “in most cases” not a good idea to run a ground rod by your shack… my garage ham shack already has a panel and a rod just outside. Also, I hear the argument that modern gear doesn’t need any more grounding then the engineers who designed the plug. They say that you are inviting lightning into the shack. As a new ham and not an EEI am thoroughly confused at this point.
Lightning arrester should be used at the antenna if lightning is a concern. I believe he’s just talking about the interior radio equipment here and avoiding ground loops between pieces of equipment.
Clean off paint and use tooth type lock washers rather than split washers if the chassis is steel use dielectric grease in that interface. It is unclear why you don’t like ground rads other than some code interpretation I have a 6 foot rod driven through the cellar floor directly under my station which has done the job for decades 73 Mike K1 FNX
I
My read of the NEC and from expert Mike Holt is that your rod is a violation as discussed a few times in the video. 73, Jim
I’ll take my chances with a code violation over a #18 green wire ground in a cable made in china and an unknown path back to the service panel but that’s just me 73 K1FNX @@ham-radio
@@michaelpolimer2128If any other ground besides the service ground is a violation then I would figure every hams vertical in the back yard or whatever is also in violation since generally they are grounded. So during a fault situation the antenna ground would end up being a path also hence why I don't trust wall socket grounded stations because there is generally a path to a ground that route in the first place.
@michaelpolimer2128 It is all fine and good until.something happens and you discover that you have absolutely *NO* insurance coverage because of a non-compliant wiring issue. They have, do and will deny based on such stuff. That's the main reason, though as they say, most regulations are written in someone's blood.
So all your antennas are grounded thru the house service green wire safety ground and you trust some Chinese Home Depot power strip after Jim had to rebuild the MFJ DC units? Other than “the code book says so” what is the technical reason multiple correctly installed grounds are verboten?
@@patrickbuick5459
Got to be very careful doing this in the UK, really need to check which Earth system you have, sometimes its going to cause some rather funky issues that an Electrician would need to be consulted or made aware of before doing any work.
Okay, I don't understand why. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio Some houses share an earth system, doesn't make any sense, but the good thing about British Standards is there's so many of them.
Jim, what is the easiest way to ground your outdoor antenna for lightning / single point access in the building?
I am looking to put up a 2m/70cm antenna on a pole to his local repeaters.
Thank you & 73
WW1ZRD
I don't bond my RF GROUND to my ELECTRICAL GROUND. A friends house caught on fire, burned all his electrical wire in his house from a lightning strike on his antenna because his RF GROUND and his ELECTRICAL GROUND were bonded. Sure his radio station took a hit but also his house did too. If they had not been bonded there would have existed a huge RESISTOR aka GROUND, EARTH between the ELECTRICAL GROUND (GROUND ROD) and RF GROUND (GROUND ROD), but intead it had a lovely low impedence/resistance between the two which allowed all that lovely high voltage to zig zag its way through all his electrical wire and destroy his electrical system and catch his house on fire. You are never going to save a radio from a direct strike unless the antenna is disconnected. Lightning does its thing and its very random, but you can use the earth as a giant load resistor to direct that energy to dissipate it. I have run my station for almost 25 years with a seperate RF GROUND and ELECTRICAL GROUND. Two totally different beasts. RF is radio frequency and ELECTRICAL is 60hz 120vac. They are not even the same frequency or voltage. I am a licensed electrician. Code was written with electricity in mind. ELECTRICAL CODE CHANGES ALL THE TIME. Electrical code was written with respect to electricity. It was not written by RF ENGINEERS with respect to RF. I can go through a bunch of reasons why I choose to not bond two different types of ground together, all of them based on fact and evidence I have personally witnessed. People will argue with me, but code is not law, and its always constantly changing and addendums are created to represent those changes. I choose not to bond my RF GROUND to ELECTRICAL GROUND.
I can understand not wanting to use the electrical outlet's ground, but ultimately the radio's ground should go to where the utility power meter or breaker box is grounded.
The fresh water pipe if that's where they're grounded, or the ground rod(s) they're using.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 Why? Is 120vac 60hz frequency coming out of your radio? What if I run my 13.6vdc radio off of a car battery? Do I still need to connect it to the ELECTRICAL GROUND in my service panel? NO!!!! If I have my radio mobile in my car, do I run an extension cord back to my house to plug into the ground of my ELECTRICAL GROUND? NO! Do people not notice I capitalize ELECTRICAL and RF GROUND? Its because they are two different beasts, two totally different and unlike things. ELECTRICITY and RADIO FREQUENCY are not the same. They behave differently and have different frequencies. They are not the same. I can demonstrate and simulate AC voltage appearing on the case of your radio. How would you like to have 70VAC on the case of your rig? You would get a pretty good tingle from it. Do not ground the RF ground from your radio to your house electrical ground.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about from this rant. What exactly are you calling an RF ground?! (since that doesn't even exist)
If you're talking about bonding the cases to the electrical ground the way he talks about in this video, therenis no way that was responsible for a house burning down.
If the radio / power supply is plugged in, it's grounded throigh the electrical ground. This just ensures all the cases have the same potential and helps it some. If your friend had his antenna hit by lightening and the station was plugged in and connected via coax as well, then obviously that is why it happened. Would have happened whether it was grounded this way or not because it still would have ran through the radio and back to electrical ground.
There are alot of variables in the story of your friend. What grounding did he have on the antenna, how many ground rods, were they bonded back to the electrical ground? How was his station connected? Lightening arrestors? If his antenna was struck and didn't have a system of ground rods that was bonded back to the electrical ground, then obviously the lightening would have traveled the path of lease resistance through his station
I probably have 20 earth ground rods in my station inc at least one at my 8 kw Generac which I had installed by a licensed professional. Should somehow the B + in one of my PAs get shorted to the case it is connected to earth ground through 4 feet of 1” copper braid…..common sense safety over code book one size fits all verbage
Thanks Jim. I have one of those boxes I bought from HD several years ago but never thought of using it for my common ground. I will be making the mods to mine. de KF3BH
Thanks, Jim
Great vid...get in touch with me...73's NX8T JIM
Okay Jim. 73, Jim
Very interesting Jim. Thanks for the ideas and the time you take in preparing your presentations. de KZ5Y dah di dah
dit dit de W6LG