We have our equivalent to Lion Electric down here in Australia - "Janus Electric". They make self immolation trucks, and our taxes subsidise the whole debacle
Data from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board shows that there are approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold. In comparison, there are approximately 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold.
Thank you for raising awareness about this growing safety issue. There was also an electric bus fire in my town last week on Jan 9th in Grants Pass, Oregon.
I grew up in GP. Is the city so wealthy now it can spend millions on electric buses ? Did you watch the video about the electric ferry ? (MGUY from Australia or Geoff Buys Cars) What a sad hoot and waste of money. A local man bought their dependable diesel ferry for 11,000 when the council replaced it with the new electric ferry. Then after 2 years of drivers spending an additional 30 minutes driving around the long way as the electric ferry didn’t work (on a 5 minute crossing) the government bought the old diesel ferry back from the man, for 6 digits. . . He made quite a nice profit after letting the ferry sit at a dock for 2 years. All that money and resources wasted.
@@yodaiam1000I live in Huntsville where this happened, and it's being reported that the batteries were not involved in the fire. That seems hard to believe if it's an all-electric bus.
Electric engineer here, just some general thoughts. American school buses used to be quite simple machines running on Diesel. Diesel is a fuel but hard to ignite by a simple spark. So they looked to me like plain forward reasonable safe machines when I visited the USA. Batteries in general will overheat by these two events: external short-cut making them overheat or internal corrosion leading to unwanted chemical reactions causing, well internal shorts. Either way the stored energy will escape completely as a very fast chain reaction releasing heat and fire. If you short a brand-new AA-battery with a larger wire long enough it will heat up and eventually explode. Which is why its label says: Don't do it! Now here is the catch from an engineering point of view by looking at these incidents (sum-up at the bottom): In any EV, any electric short within the complex controls units and power converters to run/drive/control the electric motors might trigger a fire. Water, perhaps with chemical spray added, is not only entering the batteries it also creeps into all the (power) electronics, which therefore need proper housing to keep any water out but at the same time allow those component still an efficient cooling. Any electrics and electronics combines different metals touching each other and if (salty) water comes on top corrosion is very fast. Corroding contacts means failure of function and possibly a lot of heat at this very spot. So even if the fire burst is initially not started within the battery pack, it still can be triggered by the electric and electronic components and cables within the bus too. Most of the electric circuits are fused but it is difficult to build in an electric quick fuse within high current lines. Which is why ordinary cars do not have any fuse at the direct battery-starter circuit (during the starting progress several hundreds Amps will flow while cranking up). EVs need much much more electric power (Amps and Voltage) to run than just starting even the biggest V8 engine once in a while. In order to reduce the power loss within and the weights of the cables, EVs run on high voltage systems, which require a very high-quality insulation to avoid internal sparking and/or smouldering. They are basically made from special plastic containing so called "softening agents" - chemical components to keep the plastic from bridling or other material deterioration over time. The same applies to all these seals keeping the internals of all the electric components dry. If these cables are exposed to severe temperature differences like a Canadian winter or a desert climate their quality will suffer over time since these chemicals will escape or crack, making the insulation bridle or otherwise weak. If then any liquid, particular salty water, enters the cables or these control components it makes things very quickly very worse. We also should not forget, all these components and cables also have to withstand constant vibration, certain degree of static and dynamic bending and sometimes even dynamic internal friction. They must be light-weight and hopefully cheap on top. Nothing which cannot be handled by engineers but it must be handled and might cause unavoidable higher costs. Still most of these requests are extra strains compared to a stationary machine sitting in a nice factory hall within a cosy environment. It is a vehicle in the end supposed to operate in rain, snow, sun and night, summer and winter and bumpy roads. Anything electric for an EV drive train (battery-electronic controls-motors) is and must be a high-current and high-voltage design to safe energy and keep the weight down. This combined request - again - adds to the challenge. If then one of these non-battery components or cables fails and overheats the initial fire will get close to the aux and main battery or battery packs very quickly. All of the used materials will burn, even most of the metals. Once the fire reaches those batteries and sizzling them, the fire works will erupt much quicker than any fossil fuel because the electric chain reaction of internal destruction within large batteries is much faster compared to leaking fuel, releasing the whole stored electric energy almost with speed of light. EVs must therefore very well designed, regularly inspected by highly trained technicians and their components eventually regularly replaced since not everything can be inspected internally due to the highly integrated nature of most of these components. It is indeed a matter of extra responsibility if it comes down to a bunch of children being transported on a daily basis with such vehicles.. +Sum-up+ Even if these incidents are not directly battery related, then they are indirectly battery related, which does not make a real difference. Therefore the media hype of "non-battery-related" is meaningless. They are EV-related and this is all what matters. Peace! from Dresden / Germany
An excellent description and overview of all the components required in an EV vehicle. ICE vehicles only have two thick cables - for the starter motor, and these do not wear out that easily, and when they do, you can get it replaced fairly easily should you find the problem before a short happens. I accidentally shorted out one of our ICE vehicles at the starter a long while ago. Luckily I was able to disconnect the negative terminal on the battery before anything nasty happened. Had to pull a new negative wire though, but the damage was not that extensive. Was it an EV, the vehicle would have burnt out totally, lol.
Thank you for very thoughtful explanation. If I may add, Janus Electric in Australia found that new batteries in their concrete truck EV conversions, caught on fire because the Li-on battery cells were not balanced properly. They concluded that each cell would have to be tested and all cells closely match their specs . The articles are easily found on the internet and explain the problem. Now, I spent eight years in the battery industry and found that this also happens over time in the average battery made out individual cells, regardless of chemistry. Since we deal with a lot of abstract concepts, I explain to my friends without tech knowledge and without putting them to sleep. That Li-on battery is like a very complex ICE engine. Each cell is like cylinder all working together. You can try to balance them all, but eventually one or more can fail. The more cells, the higher probability of failure or as You pointed out other system controlling this elaborate engine can fail, resulting in catastrophic fire. Cheers from New West / Canada
@@wadimszymocha7463 It is totally clear what you describing. During the cold war I served as a T55 tank-commander in the East-German army. They used four huge standard lead-acid 12V car batteries, two pairs in parallel and these two in serious to generate 24V DC. When the tanks did not move for too long the self-discharging process was quite quick because all four individual batteries had different individual characteristics due to age and larger manufacturing tolerances. For the very same reason I never found any battery driven device which uses parallel-switched batteries as a pack, only serial-connected batteries are being applied. This in particular is important when those devices are for very long periods of time unused (in stand-by, let's say walkie-talkies for fire services). Same with modern versions of batteries. If connected in parallel but having even small difference of charging status and characteristics (inner resistance) only, the system will start to generated unwanted currents (and eventually internal local heat) between the individual cells. Internally the whole pack will kind of have a dynamic discharging phenomenon, where the single cell elements will discharge each other without ever balancing them out. This is because also the now changing internal temperatures will keep changing the individual cell characteristics (since their internal cell temperature will effect the characteristics of the cell) until everything is completely dead discharged or pops into flames earlier. It is not only bad for efficiency, it is definitely a very serious hard-core safety concern. If only one of the elements fails finally and develops more and more into an internal charge, disaster is on he way. When I restored my 1972 Ford Transit into a sleeper van, I opted for one single aux battery instead of two or more single ones. Exactly because of this problem. Good electricians and electric engineers are aware of that. But try to explain this to even interested outsiders, not to mention greenish woke doomsday politicians. Do not get me wrong, I am not in general against this technology. But it should be executed and used when feasible. But not when ideologists think they know how to save our planet. It will backfire - virtually. Peace! from Dresden / Germany
@ I most definitely do understand. you are one of those that do not understand basic probability. The total number of ICEV and BEV is irrelevant to the probability of a fire of an individual vehicle. It doesn't matter how many people play the lottery, your probability of winning remains the same.
..but it's the very serious fact and reality that kids could be hurt by these things, It is only due to sheer luck this has not happened yet. .. it's time to start seriously consider banning EVs My new neighbors have their ev parked only 8ft from the side of my garage, which is attached to my home, and this has been a constant fear/concern for me since they moved in less than one year ago.
@@warthogA10 I guarantee you have a batt in your vehicle. And in a number of devices. Currently, there is no proof that the EV system caused the fire. Until that is released, I'll continue to sleep. Of course companies that provide the buses need to have safety exit plans. But this ev hating is just outright dumb. Shit, this world has turned to shit since trump ever went into politics.
@@warthogA10 As long as the contacts are not loose of the plug they are using: you don't have much to worry about. I would be more worried about wild fire caused by burning too much fossil fuel over the past 200 years.
The Challenger disaster 1986 for those who might not know. A Viton rubber o-ring on a solid rocket booster leaked sending a rocket flame right onto the external fuel tank leading to total loss of shuttle and crew.
Did you really say -5 in Canadian? I am totally going to steal that. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 And then i realized that the C could stand for canadian. Still lol. You sir are a legend.
Our governor ( in Illinois) wanted Lion electric to bring these busses here ! ( perhaps manufacture here ). But Lion electric has big finanacial problems. ! Very glad no one was hurt in that Ontario bus fire !
Illinois has always been good at picking losers. Remember Diamond-Star and Mitsubishi in Normal? Rivian is there now and they've been laying off people plus they had a major fire, that damaged 50 vehicles, in their parking lot.
I live in Alberta, Canada, and a few years ago two of our cities decided to purchase some electric buses from a company named Proterra in the US. I am not aware of any fires, but the buses were basically junk and many of them were taken off the road in just a few years. Apparently, the supplier went bankrupt shortly after that.
It’s hard to fathom the depth of ineptitude of those who made the decision to buy so many of these without trying a few out for some time in different conditions. I can’t help but think somebody got some hefty “influence cash” to help them make up their mind to buy them. And they justified it to the woke voters by claiming some kind of virtue for doing taxpayers such a “favour.”
@@Woodburner100 I suspect a lot of the investment was the heavier floor and charging infrastructure in the new North-East bus garage. Using proven trolley bus technology would have also cost millions to restring new lines.
As a mother, this scares the heck out of me. 😢.... How can we force Canada to take these buses OFF the road? New sub, very, very important content. Liked and shared 👍📩... Make sure we all share, and let's get these death traps off our roads. 🙏🙏🙏
Hey bud, nice to bring this story to light in Canada, I never heard it on any of my local news feeds because news like this isn’t allowed to be spread about evs, but you report that it was -5c here, and that nobody want a their kids out in it, well, we see it as only -5c and kids still go out for recess until it drops below -25c in Ontario
@@yodaiam1000 News stations disable comments and outright say, "We see no evidence that it was the battery that caused it.".... how is that not evidence for you?
@@n085fs How is this biased if they turn off all comments on all their news stories? If there is no evidence of a battery fire then there is no evidence of a battery fire. Maybe the media is telling the truth rather than hiding something. I find it difficult to believe that media and government that are sponsored by large corporations (especially in the US) would be biased toward EVs. Politicians receive large campaign "donations" from the FF industry. Media is owned by conglomerate corporations with stakes in the FF industry. They want you to buy gas. They make more money.
Yeah, electrical component rusting is among the leading causes of car problems in Quebec and Ontario where they put a lot of salt on the roads during the winter. Some makes and models are especially prone to head gasket burning due to the failure of the relay that turns on the radiator fan (and the engine overheating as a result) because the contacts of the relay get rusty from salt
Is it your belief that these buses were purchased taxpayer money? If yes, what is the basis for that belief? All of the school bus companies I have seen in Ontario are privately-owned businesses that, presumably, purchase and pay for their own buses.
It’s still a fairly new technology. There’s always gonna be problems in the beginning. Electrification is the best way to go and now they even have electric fire trucks and electric garbage trucks
If the buses get replaced, it isn't a waste. Just like any vehicle, if there is a warranty issue, the company pays. It is bad advertising for Li-ion but this seems to be an issue regarding a particular brand and model.
I would suggest to report anything abnormal or dangerous if you're noticing or know of EV issues others dealt with, possibly to someone like the IAFC (International Association of Fire Chiefs). The IAFC is starting to ramp up the EV issue with all fire personnel worldwide, to hopefully get changes implemented faster. I'm in the US and the necessary changes won't go fast enough without everyone around the world making lithium ion battery safety a priority. My field is environmental, health and safety, so I know first hand how much every single sector is affected and yet no one's ready. Individual fire departments here and there are doing better at getting prepared and knowledgeable, but our federal government doesn't have the intention of doing much fast enough from a regulation side. There's been an industry push for better batteries to be developed, which they've made, but for various understandable reasons lithium ion is still being used as a primary battery option. Downstream markets (companies buying/selling anything with lithium ion), employees, consumers, etc are NOT knowledgeable or prepared. There's only 1 company I know of in the world that makes a great series of products for suppression of gases and fires from lithium ion, and another company that likewise is developing products. Insurance companies, mortgage companies, etc don't have the necessary measures in place policy wise, likewise no one is currently required to give notifications to the public, because there aren't laws established for this. It's unfortunate that people are allowed to purchase them, there's clearly a set of dangerous hazards occurring regularly nowadays, and laws aren't established for covering the health, safety and financial aspects in the ways we need. Yet....the climate agenda that both Republicans and Democrats signed onto, plus ALL countries/Nations worldwide signed onto in the mid 90's, is to push the usage of EVs which currently uses an unsafe and outrageous battery option we're trying to avoid in the future. 🤦 So, your (and others worldwide) input given to a higher org/association like IAFC might be helpful.
There was a electric bike battery that ignited on the Toronto subway this week .. look it up and watch how fast it flashed through the subway car , the charging ports were open to salt and water on the roads .
They will probably ban ebikes from buses and subway's now in Toronto like they were talking about in the summer and it won't just be for the winter months it probably will be permanently
I'm Canadian and I'm 1 of the few that has a propane powered bus picking up my kids but most others are LION ev buses in my area. Since my youngest is kindergarten, l have to physically be there for when she leaves and returns or they won't let her off. Since I am a car guy I notice things others overlook. Whenever there's snow, the whole front axle, subframe and suspension parts are covered in think dirty road slush mixed with road salt. This mix works its way into every crevice and as it refreezes, it expands and creates its way deeper. If salt and ice damages brake lines, fuel lines and electrical wires on conventional cars, then the same damage will be done on EVs but with dire consequences.
I looked up news coverage of this incident. They all say the neighborhood wasn't affected. I'm going to dispute that based on the fact that when my neighbor's kitchen caught fire, my home smelled like smoke for weeks. Probably until I got used to it. The neighbor was across the driveway we both shared, and on the far end of their home, away from the driveway. The fire department was around the corner, so they were there in a flash and the fire was extinguished completely within an hour at most. I had to close the windows all over our house as soon as I realized what was going on, which was just minutes after the fire started. Since I could exit my kitchen (back) door, and the neighbor had to escape the front door, I was outside before her. On my way out the door I hollered for my son to close our windows, and he raced through the house doing that. He had the downstairs windows closed before I found the neighbor coming up the driveway. And our place still smelled like smoke from burning modern building materials and kitchen appliances. So I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the schoolbus itself, plus the lithium battery, and whatever else was on board, stank up the homes in the neighborhood just from the air intake for their furnaces.
It was -23C here today. The daytime high. If that had happened here those kids would have 5 minutes to find shelter somewhere. Luckily the wind was pretty calm, that's -23 before windchill, eh? Around -30 after. (I was out and about for most of the day in it. Just a normal winter day here!) EV + Canada = no.
Good for reporting this !!!!!!!!!!!!!! If this EV technology is so great, why does the EV industry need SO MUCH SUPPORT FROM WE THE TAXPAYERS ?!?!?!?!?!
That's one of the things that people don't bring up about evs. I'm starting to work on these cars are dealership also sells EVS Honda prologues aka the Chevy Blazer. And I was going through some of the manuals and things like that and I came across something was rather interesting so there's a certain code or set of codes that can occur on a car that being possible internal coolant leak. So on these cars the electric vehicles the coolant reservoir tank is sealed. The minimum and maximum cool levels about a quarter inch between those marks. So if you have a certain code and there is no external coolant leaks. That means there's a possible or probable cause of coolant leaking into the battery cells themselves at that point your instructed to move the vehicle away from everything and then pressure check the battery to see if it's holding pressure and if not then contact the manufacturer for further instructions. If you're driving on the roadand you see the check engine light or warning light coming on it gives you an idea of something is wrong but let's say you drove the car long distance you parked it and you let it sit for a few days and then the thing failed while sitting which can definitely help with temperature going up and down and it leaks now you have a definite fire situation that will occur without any warning whatsoever. Kind of like mixing nitro on one side of a container and glycerin and the other and then shaking up really hard to see what happens. I myself would never own electric vehicle.
Not to mention the roads gets salted during the winter. Salty water makes it way into everything. Typically the cars would just rust out after a decade, guess we have a new fear...
@@RBzee112 EVs catch fire 5X as often as ICE, and they're what? 8% of the cars on the road? Do the maths. ICE can catch fire due to terrible neglect or accidents. The chance of driving along & sudden fires erupting is zero otherwise.
Janus cement truck converted from diesel also caught fire on ITS FIRST JOURNEY!! WE ARE NOT LEARNING. Lithium Ion batteries are a known fire risk for 30 years even before they were put into vehicles. How stupid are the powers that be??
Krap! I didn't even consider the kid'letts. Just like soup, it can be too hot or too cold. This was a current, electrifying story with a battery of good comments. I am so wired to take care of this problem! Thank you for the video. You R the "Stache-Training Whisperer"
@@JohnDoe-lw2nm Did your socialist professor teach you that? Instead of attacking the messenger, disprove the message she sent.I will gladly wait for your response. Please keep it civil
It makes sense that the cause of this fire came from a lithium battery under the hood, it totaled the whole bus. Gas vehicle fire usually don't do that, because they are usually extinguished before consuming the whole vehicle.
Not even proven that it was the hv batt. Shoot it could be the 12/14 volt battery. Might as well put down your phones too! My god, might start a fire !!!. The batt is not located in the front. The fire Dept did not have to extinguish with other material other than water. Ffs everybody needs to stop saying EVs are terrible.
@@stefk4862 Pray tell: What else under the hood of that bus could spontaneously catch fire? You say there's a 12 Volt battery in there? What for? The starter motor? 🧐 I've driven with 12 volt batteries for 40+ years, never once have any caught fire. Not one person I know had it happen. In extreme (+35 or more) heat they might catch fire, maybe, very rarely. In the cold? Never: it's physically impossible barring sabotage.
So the kids that were on this bus were breathing smoke (not engine exhaust) which is what the Canadian govt. is directly trying to avoid for the environment.
Not to mention that ev fires burn longer, emitting more toxic smoke into the atmosphere. It is my understanding that gas vehicle fires are easier to extinguish. Hence why there is special training and firefighting equipment needed just for ev fires.
The NiMH batteries should be out of patent by now. Those are about half the energy density. As are sodium-ion batteries (which may work better in cold temperature applications.)
I live near Huntsville. The report is that the batteries were not the cause of the fire, and did not ignite. Of course the cause mat still have been electrical. A previous similar bus fire was traced to the cab heater igniting.
That doesn't look very Green ta me. I blame the Governments for pushing this on manufactures, I don't put full blame on Lion Electric Bus. They're just trying to meet emission standard forced on them by Governments.
-5C for Canadian kids is nice and warm. We literally had to go out in shorts to play soccer when I was a kid at those temperatures. Even at -35C, we still had to go outside for recess. At -40C, we got to stay inside. We spent hours outside at -20C. In the spring at -10C, we were so happy that it was so warm and could unzip our jackets.
Not even proven that it was the hv batt. Shoot it could be the 12/14 volt battery. Might as well put down your phones too! My god, might start a fire !!!
You mentioned temperatures of 20F or -5C. Check out the weather for the next week. Temperatures across North Eastern Ontario are going to more like -15C to -20C. Even wolves would find it difficult to get by at those freezing temperatures. School kids? Yikes!
Also in the photos, they are NOT evacuating the children out the Rear Doors, where it would be much safer. Is there also something wrong with the rear emergency doors, and ladders (or slides) on these buses? Given only one driver, who mans the rear doors?
It's time to seriously consider banning EVs.. My new neighbors have their EV parked about 7 or 8 ft from my garage, which os attached to my home, and they leave it plugged in overnight.. This has been a constant fear/concern for me since they moved in less than one year ago.. There is absolutely no way if that thing goes up, ..that it won't spread to my home. 😡
@NoName-md5zb 🙄 What is it with people like you always using absolute ex tr memes to make your "arguments 🤔 If I made a statement that "I don't drink alcohol" Your response would be, "then you don't drink water, or milk, or juice, or soda??!" ..😐 .. just jump right to the absolute ex tr eme 🙄 🤷 If I said "lions are dangerous".. .."I hope you don't have any pets.." dur her her 🤤 Congratulations, you just added absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.
@@warthogA10 A paid shill responding. Each response back to them they get paid, but they won’t get a single cent outta me. I see them on other channels, and I refuse to answer them back. You can block their notifications BTW if they do respond.
I don’t like how it takes fire blankets , and major major resources to deal with these fires . The batteries are a whole bunch of AA batteries soldered together . These vehicles are going to fail the way the batteries are made , so many solders that can fail.
Fire blankets are useless: the battery fires are self oxygenating. They burn underwater, they'd burn in outer space! All fire departments can do is hose them down to try to cool them off (so they don't explode!) until they run their course. It takes 3x as long and 4x as much water than any ICE fire. Just for a car! I figure large EVs are even worse.
@@5Cats and who is paying that bill ? I saw in the states the fire department had a $7,000 fire blanket they used per car fire . Then towed the smoldering care down the highway to the dump where it kept smouldering . I can tell you my fire chief is also the bylaw guy , his buddy drives a Tesla and I worry for the day the car lights up in the forest and started a Los Angeles fire up in Northern Ontario. Great video , we need to get ahead of this EV disaster
@ A fire blanket of any size cannot "put out" an EV fire, period. Even submerging it in a huge tank of water (a proposed 'solution') doesn't put the fire out. If the fire gets hot enough the entire battery could explode, making things far worse. So just dragging it to the dump does at least keep it off the streets, but at any time on that trip it could blow up! So they douse it with water and try to keep it cool. You are correct: every EV fire should be counted and accounted for. Just like all other traffic matters (like DUI or dangerous cars) are.
No battery powered vehicle should be ripping around in cold wet environments. Every battery manufacture says do not use under certain temps but yet thats all we do in EVs is go against any battery rule. 😂
My EV (2011 Leaf) keeps the traction battery at a safe temperature with battery heaters, unless the SOC drops below 30%. I am supposed to be able to let my car sit for a week in cold temperatures: but I have a parasitic drain I have not tracked down yet. Limiting me to 3 days in extreme cold without shore power. Edit: you are probably referring to the e-bike catching fire on the subway video. E-bikes have much smaller batteries that lack the capacity to run a battery heater for days at a time.
"Negative five Canadian." - cute. Also note that the moisture would be mixing with the road salt to make a brine solution. So, if moisture is making its way into a battery compartment, that moisture would be a brine mixture. You would expect the front pack to be splashed upon more than the middle packs.
Regarding any water intrusion, would road salt in the water be a factor precipitating these two fires? EV fires have occurred in Florida where the vehicles are subjected to salt water flooding in coastal communities after major storms.
When the school bus breaks down and the children are evacuated on a cold day the bus catches fire so that the children don’t get cold. It’s a built in safety measure for electric buses.
This incident happened in a rural district. The federal government is funding bus operators to buy these vehicles. They've allocated billions of tax dollars to it.
What is not taken into account from what you said is the use of the bus on roads that are not always paved, adding physical shock to the body of the bus which is not always controlled by the suspension. That why the kids love sitting in the back of the bus on hilly or rough roads and getting bounced out of their seats.
It's not quite true to say there is no Lithium. Yes when they leave the factory it is in salt form BUT in extreme cold or when rapidly charged Lithium plating occurs which is the deposition of metal Lithium on the Anode. This then causes dentrites which then perforate the separating membrane and ...........
-5 Celsius is not cold for us Canadians. We dress for it. So a few students having to stand outside isn’t a problem. Battery safety in those temperatures is.
Canadian children are so wholesome and innocent... If this was in Britain the bus fire would have been started by 8-year-old kids using their cigarette lighters to get the charcoal barbecue they'd hidden behind the seats started. "Oi, George - do we have any more petrol?" Note: I'm only making a joke about this because nobody was injured. I condemned the whole EV bus idea in an earlier StacheD Training video. Beta-testing 'green' technology on children - CHILDREN - is obscene. Imagine the outcry and mockery from the West about poor safety standards if these bus fires were occurring in China.
Ev are bad la kept burning cause the battery keep the fire going so it spread imagine a whole state running on ev then no firefighters can put it out and it spread the whole state
We have our equivalent to Lion Electric down here in Australia - "Janus Electric". They make self immolation trucks, and our taxes subsidise the whole debacle
And what was the EPA fine for their electric Kenworth releasing so many toxins on the Westgate bridge?
Funniest part about it has to be Hugh Janus...
@@RavenAutoPartsCo EVs are sacrosanct, no fines for them.
Did they make the electric concrete truck which caught fire .
Hugh Janus Electric
As a Canadian I’m ashamed to be governed by idiots who jumped on the e-vehicle bandwagon
Remove these death traps from the roads immediatly.
Data from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board shows that there are approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold. In comparison, there are approximately 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold.
That’s what I am saying it was scary that we had to get if very fast it was right in front of my school
Thank you for raising awareness about this growing safety issue. There was also an electric bus fire in my town last week on Jan 9th in Grants Pass, Oregon.
I noticed that when I was looking at info for this fire. I'll dig a little deeper and see if I can get more info.
Officials said they were pulling the 3 other EV busses until the manufacturer can be investigated. We shall see. I’m also in the GP area.
I grew up in GP. Is the city so wealthy now it can spend millions on electric buses ? Did you watch the video about the electric ferry ? (MGUY from Australia or Geoff Buys Cars) What a sad hoot and waste of money. A local man bought their dependable diesel ferry for 11,000 when the council replaced it with the new electric ferry. Then after 2 years of drivers spending an additional 30 minutes driving around the long way as the electric ferry didn’t work (on a 5 minute crossing) the government bought the old diesel ferry back from the man, for 6 digits. . . He made quite a nice profit after letting the ferry sit at a dock for 2 years. All that money and resources wasted.
@@sorbabaric1 the answer to your question is no. I tried to post another comment but don’t see it 🤷🏼♀️
electric bike fire in subway!
Thanks for clarifying how the water affects the batteries. It's scary that they are pretending this is a non-issue
Their not pretending.........they are lying.
Who are they? Who is saying that a burning school bus is not an issue?
@@yodaiam1000 They are always pretending ELECTRIC buses are not a problem: always stressing that "it wasn't a li-ion battery that caught fire"...
@@yodaiam1000 well the communist dictator running our country. Who else is pushing ev shit that will never work properly here
@@yodaiam1000I live in Huntsville where this happened, and it's being reported that the batteries were not involved in the fire. That seems hard to believe if it's an all-electric bus.
Electric engineer here, just some general thoughts.
American school buses used to be quite simple machines running on Diesel. Diesel is a fuel but hard to ignite by a simple spark.
So they looked to me like plain forward reasonable safe machines when I visited the USA.
Batteries in general will overheat by these two events: external short-cut making them overheat or internal corrosion leading to unwanted chemical reactions causing, well internal shorts. Either way the stored energy will escape completely as a very fast chain reaction releasing heat and fire. If you short a brand-new AA-battery with a larger wire long enough it will heat up and eventually explode. Which is why its label says: Don't do it!
Now here is the catch from an engineering point of view by looking at these incidents (sum-up at the bottom):
In any EV, any electric short within the complex controls units and power converters to run/drive/control the electric motors might trigger a fire.
Water, perhaps with chemical spray added, is not only entering the batteries it also creeps into all the (power) electronics, which therefore need proper housing to keep any water out but at the same time allow those component still an efficient cooling.
Any electrics and electronics combines different metals touching each other and if (salty) water comes on top corrosion is very fast. Corroding contacts means failure of function and possibly a lot of heat at this very spot.
So even if the fire burst is initially not started within the battery pack, it still can be triggered by the electric and electronic components and cables within the bus too. Most of the electric circuits are fused but it is difficult to build in an electric quick fuse within high current lines.
Which is why ordinary cars do not have any fuse at the direct battery-starter circuit (during the starting progress several hundreds Amps will flow while cranking up).
EVs need much much more electric power (Amps and Voltage) to run than just starting even the biggest V8 engine once in a while.
In order to reduce the power loss within and the weights of the cables, EVs run on high voltage systems, which require a very high-quality insulation to avoid internal sparking and/or smouldering. They are basically made from special plastic containing so called "softening agents" - chemical components to keep the plastic from bridling or other material deterioration over time. The same applies to all these seals keeping the internals of all the electric components dry.
If these cables are exposed to severe temperature differences like a Canadian winter or a desert climate their quality will suffer over time since these chemicals will escape or crack, making the insulation bridle or otherwise weak. If then any liquid, particular salty water, enters the cables or these control components it makes things very quickly very worse.
We also should not forget, all these components and cables also have to withstand constant vibration, certain degree of static and dynamic bending and sometimes even dynamic internal friction. They must be light-weight and hopefully cheap on top.
Nothing which cannot be handled by engineers but it must be handled and might cause unavoidable higher costs.
Still most of these requests are extra strains compared to a stationary machine sitting in a nice factory hall within a cosy environment. It is a vehicle in the end supposed to operate in rain, snow, sun and night, summer and winter and bumpy roads.
Anything electric for an EV drive train (battery-electronic controls-motors) is and must be a high-current and high-voltage design to safe energy and keep the weight down. This combined request - again - adds to the challenge.
If then one of these non-battery components or cables fails and overheats the initial fire will get close to the aux and main battery or battery packs very quickly. All of the used materials will burn, even most of the metals.
Once the fire reaches those batteries and sizzling them, the fire works will erupt much quicker than any fossil fuel because the electric chain reaction of internal destruction within large batteries is much faster compared to leaking fuel, releasing the whole stored electric energy almost with speed of light.
EVs must therefore very well designed, regularly inspected by highly trained technicians and their components eventually regularly replaced since not everything can be inspected internally due to the highly integrated nature of most of these components.
It is indeed a matter of extra responsibility if it comes down to a bunch of children being transported on a daily basis with such vehicles..
+Sum-up+
Even if these incidents are not directly battery related, then they are indirectly battery related, which does not make a real difference. Therefore the media hype of "non-battery-related" is meaningless. They are EV-related and this is all what matters.
Peace! from Dresden / Germany
An excellent description and overview of all the components required in an EV vehicle.
ICE vehicles only have two thick cables - for the starter motor, and these do not wear out that easily, and when they do, you can get it replaced fairly easily should you find the problem before a short happens.
I accidentally shorted out one of our ICE vehicles at the starter a long while ago. Luckily I was able to disconnect the negative terminal on the battery before anything nasty happened.
Had to pull a new negative wire though, but the damage was not that extensive.
Was it an EV, the vehicle would have burnt out totally, lol.
People ARE BEING WARNED NOT TO CHARGE THEIR CELLS PHONES WHILE YOU SLEEP.
Thank you for very thoughtful explanation. If I may add, Janus Electric in Australia found that new batteries in their concrete truck EV conversions, caught on fire because the Li-on battery cells were not balanced properly. They concluded that each cell would have to be tested and all cells closely match their specs . The articles are easily found on the internet and explain the problem. Now, I spent eight years in the battery industry and found that this also happens over time in the average battery made out individual cells, regardless of chemistry. Since we deal with a lot of abstract concepts, I explain to my friends without tech knowledge and without putting them to sleep. That Li-on battery is like a very complex ICE engine. Each cell is like cylinder all working together. You can try to balance them all, but eventually one or more can fail. The more cells, the higher probability of failure or as You pointed out other system controlling this elaborate engine can fail, resulting in catastrophic fire.
Cheers from New West / Canada
@@wadimszymocha7463
It is totally clear what you describing.
During the cold war I served as a T55 tank-commander in the East-German army. They used four huge standard lead-acid 12V car batteries, two pairs in parallel and these two in serious to generate 24V DC. When the tanks did not move for too long the self-discharging process was quite quick because all four individual batteries had different individual characteristics due to age and larger manufacturing tolerances.
For the very same reason I never found any battery driven device which uses parallel-switched batteries as a pack, only serial-connected batteries are being applied. This in particular is important when those devices are for very long periods of time unused (in stand-by, let's say walkie-talkies for fire services).
Same with modern versions of batteries. If connected in parallel but having even small difference of charging status and characteristics (inner resistance) only, the system will start to generated unwanted currents (and eventually internal local heat) between the individual cells. Internally the whole pack will kind of have a dynamic discharging phenomenon, where the single cell elements will discharge each other without ever balancing them out.
This is because also the now changing internal temperatures will keep changing the individual cell characteristics (since their internal cell temperature will effect the characteristics of the cell) until everything is completely dead discharged or pops into flames earlier.
It is not only bad for efficiency, it is definitely a very serious hard-core safety concern. If only one of the elements fails finally and develops more and more into an internal charge, disaster is on he way.
When I restored my 1972 Ford Transit into a sleeper van, I opted for one single aux battery instead of two or more single ones. Exactly because of this problem. Good electricians and electric engineers are aware of that.
But try to explain this to even interested outsiders, not to mention greenish woke doomsday politicians.
Do not get me wrong, I am not in general against this technology. But it should be executed and used when feasible. But not when ideologists think they know how to save our planet. It will backfire - virtually.
Peace! from Dresden / Germany
We see EVs on fire everyday on our trucking routes across California. It's amazing how fast those thing burn
Series issues when California bans any combustion engines in the future!
Alot more series fires in high rise and multiple residential properties
Gas cars catch fire 15 x more often than ev as a percentage of cars on the road.
EV fires are exceedingly rare. There are more tanker truck fires than EV fires which far more dangerous and destructive.
Oh, you're one of those, that don't under stand "Per Capita".@@yodaiam1000
@ I most definitely do understand. you are one of those that do not understand basic probability. The total number of ICEV and BEV is irrelevant to the probability of a fire of an individual vehicle. It doesn't matter how many people play the lottery, your probability of winning remains the same.
I live near Huntsville. I'm so glad that no children were harmed, but what a colossal risk and waste of tax dollars.
Tax dollars? You do know that Ontario contracts buses out of 3rd party contractors and operators, right?
..but it's the very serious fact and reality that kids could be hurt by these things,
It is only due to sheer luck this has not happened yet.
.. it's time to start seriously consider banning EVs
My new neighbors have their ev parked only 8ft from the side of my garage, which is attached to my home, and this has been a constant fear/concern for me since they moved in less than one year ago.
@@warthogA10 I guarantee you have a batt in your vehicle. And in a number of devices. Currently, there is no proof that the EV system caused the fire. Until that is released, I'll continue to sleep. Of course companies that provide the buses need to have safety exit plans. But this ev hating is just outright dumb. Shit, this world has turned to shit since trump ever went into politics.
@@warthogA10 As long as the contacts are not loose of the plug they are using: you don't have much to worry about.
I would be more worried about wild fire caused by burning too much fossil fuel over the past 200 years.
Thats alot of toxins going into the air and ground!
I guess the government is okay with this type of pollution, better then a fossil fuel busses!
I remember when a space shuttle caught fire after a cold evening outside and the cause was seals that had lost their elasticity due to the cold.
The Challenger disaster 1986 for those who might not know. A Viton rubber o-ring on a solid rocket booster leaked sending a rocket flame right onto the external fuel tank leading to total loss of shuttle and crew.
@@skunkjobb 39th anniversary coming up in about 2 weeks. I remember watching it live on tv.
Did you really say -5 in Canadian?
I am totally going to steal that.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
And then i realized that the C could stand for canadian. Still lol.
You sir are a legend.
I guess they forgetting the pintos Ford Pintos tap that sucker kaboom
@@skunkjobb If I remember right, it was about 27 degrees F at liftoff.
Our governor ( in Illinois) wanted Lion electric to bring these busses here ! ( perhaps manufacture here ). But Lion electric has big finanacial problems. ! Very glad no one was hurt in that Ontario bus fire !
Illinois has always been good at picking losers. Remember Diamond-Star and Mitsubishi in Normal? Rivian is there now and they've been laying off people plus they had a major fire, that damaged 50 vehicles, in their parking lot.
The plant did come to Illinois (Channahon). It shut down last month.
I live in Alberta, Canada, and a few years ago two of our cities decided to purchase some electric buses from a company named Proterra in the US. I am not aware of any fires, but the buses were basically junk and many of them were taken off the road in just a few years. Apparently, the supplier went bankrupt shortly after that.
They had a lot of issues.
Yeah apparently they did not realize that "cold" meant below -20C (-4F in American).
Edmonton had to install after-market battery blankets.
It’s hard to fathom the depth of ineptitude of those who made the decision to buy so many of these without trying a few out for some time in different conditions. I can’t help but think somebody got some hefty “influence cash” to help them make up their mind to buy them. And they justified it to the woke voters by claiming some kind of virtue for doing taxpayers such a “favour.”
@@Woodburner100 I suspect a lot of the investment was the heavier floor and charging infrastructure in the new North-East bus garage.
Using proven trolley bus technology would have also cost millions to restring new lines.
60 million dollar boondoggle in Edmonton. Some of them are still seeing limited service, however it's only about 1/3 of the fleet on a good day.
As a mother, this scares the heck out of me. 😢.... How can we force Canada to take these buses OFF the road?
New sub, very, very important content. Liked and shared 👍📩...
Make sure we all share, and let's get these death traps off our roads.
🙏🙏🙏
We cant, we don't live in a democracy.
Hey bud, nice to bring this story to light in Canada, I never heard it on any of my local news feeds because news like this isn’t allowed to be spread about evs, but you report that it was -5c here, and that nobody want a their kids out in it, well, we see it as only -5c and kids still go out for recess until it drops below -25c in Ontario
You mean it's just like China now?
Since when isn't it allowed? Where is your evidence that this information is being blocked?
Funny, that's EXACTLY the way it is in China.
Are you going to delete me again see see pee boy?
@@yodaiam1000 News stations disable comments and outright say, "We see no evidence that it was the battery that caused it.".... how is that not evidence for you?
@@n085fs How is this biased if they turn off all comments on all their news stories? If there is no evidence of a battery fire then there is no evidence of a battery fire. Maybe the media is telling the truth rather than hiding something. I find it difficult to believe that media and government that are sponsored by large corporations (especially in the US) would be biased toward EVs. Politicians receive large campaign "donations" from the FF industry. Media is owned by conglomerate corporations with stakes in the FF industry. They want you to buy gas. They make more money.
I love that we need to say "IS there a safety issue?" Yes, no questions, imagine if it did a spontaneous combustion event, youd have bbq
Yeah, electrical component rusting is among the leading causes of car problems in Quebec and Ontario where they put a lot of salt on the roads during the winter. Some makes and models are especially prone to head gasket burning due to the failure of the relay that turns on the radiator fan (and the engine overheating as a result) because the contacts of the relay get rusty from salt
That's an extremely bad design then. We use road salt here in Sweden too, sure it causes some rust but I've never seen it get into a relay.
@@skunkjobb Right, American design mostly
Sorry, but it is really the driver's fault for being too stupid to react to the idiot light.
What a WASTE of Taxpayer's money, and a DEATH WISH to it's Students...IMO!🤬🤬🤬
It isnt waste. Electric city bus has great savings.
@@NoName-md5zb I can there is a Dummy amongst us, and its you
Is it your belief that these buses were purchased taxpayer money? If yes, what is the basis for that belief?
All of the school bus companies I have seen in Ontario are privately-owned businesses that, presumably, purchase and pay for their own buses.
It’s still a fairly new technology. There’s always gonna be problems in the beginning. Electrification is the best way to go and now they even have electric fire trucks and electric garbage trucks
If the buses get replaced, it isn't a waste. Just like any vehicle, if there is a warranty issue, the company pays. It is bad advertising for Li-ion but this seems to be an issue regarding a particular brand and model.
I drive a lionC and i
am starting to see the problem in my bus pile up
I would suggest to report anything abnormal or dangerous if you're noticing or know of EV issues others dealt with, possibly to someone like the IAFC (International Association of Fire Chiefs). The IAFC is starting to ramp up the EV issue with all fire personnel worldwide, to hopefully get changes implemented faster. I'm in the US and the necessary changes won't go fast enough without everyone around the world making lithium ion battery safety a priority. My field is environmental, health and safety, so I know first hand how much every single sector is affected and yet no one's ready. Individual fire departments here and there are doing better at getting prepared and knowledgeable, but our federal government doesn't have the intention of doing much fast enough from a regulation side. There's been an industry push for better batteries to be developed, which they've made, but for various understandable reasons lithium ion is still being used as a primary battery option. Downstream markets (companies buying/selling anything with lithium ion), employees, consumers, etc are NOT knowledgeable or prepared. There's only 1 company I know of in the world that makes a great series of products for suppression of gases and fires from lithium ion, and another company that likewise is developing products. Insurance companies, mortgage companies, etc don't have the necessary measures in place policy wise, likewise no one is currently required to give notifications to the public, because there aren't laws established for this.
It's unfortunate that people are allowed to purchase them, there's clearly a set of dangerous hazards occurring regularly nowadays, and laws aren't established for covering the health, safety and financial aspects in the ways we need. Yet....the climate agenda that both Republicans and Democrats signed onto, plus ALL countries/Nations worldwide signed onto in the mid 90's, is to push the usage of EVs which currently uses an unsafe and outrageous battery option we're trying to avoid in the future. 🤦 So, your (and others worldwide) input given to a higher org/association like IAFC might be helpful.
Get our children out of electric death traps.
There was a electric bike battery that ignited on the Toronto subway this week .. look it up and watch how fast it flashed through the subway car , the charging ports were open to salt and water on the roads .
I believe he actually covered that exact scenario.
They will probably ban ebikes from buses and subway's now in Toronto like they were talking about in the summer and it won't just be for the winter months it probably will be permanently
I'm Canadian and I'm 1 of the few that has a propane powered bus picking up my kids but most others are LION ev buses in my area. Since my youngest is kindergarten, l have to physically be there for when she leaves and returns or they won't let her off. Since I am a car guy I notice things others overlook. Whenever there's snow, the whole front axle, subframe and suspension parts are covered in think dirty road slush mixed with road salt. This mix works its way into every crevice and as it refreezes, it expands and creates its way deeper. If salt and ice damages brake lines, fuel lines and electrical wires on conventional cars, then the same damage will be done on EVs but with dire consequences.
I looked up news coverage of this incident. They all say the neighborhood wasn't affected. I'm going to dispute that based on the fact that when my neighbor's kitchen caught fire, my home smelled like smoke for weeks. Probably until I got used to it. The neighbor was across the driveway we both shared, and on the far end of their home, away from the driveway. The fire department was around the corner, so they were there in a flash and the fire was extinguished completely within an hour at most. I had to close the windows all over our house as soon as I realized what was going on, which was just minutes after the fire started. Since I could exit my kitchen (back) door, and the neighbor had to escape the front door, I was outside before her. On my way out the door I hollered for my son to close our windows, and he raced through the house doing that. He had the downstairs windows closed before I found the neighbor coming up the driveway. And our place still smelled like smoke from burning modern building materials and kitchen appliances. So I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the schoolbus itself, plus the lithium battery, and whatever else was on board, stank up the homes in the neighborhood just from the air intake for their furnaces.
the fumes from those batteries are deadly
I believe you are correct about your assessment, big money controls the information, thanks for keeping us alert. Doug / Ottawa
They got themselves on the hook with this EV stuff so bad I wouldn't be surprised if they lie themselves right into a fatality.
Thank you for the update.
It begins looking like a trend, though...
The amount of toxic smoke from that bus fire most likely exceeded the emissions of a regular diesel powered bus in same lifespan.
Thenks for info.
We are going to be seeing this ALOT.
"negative 5 in Canadian" - I laughed in American
😂
That's negative five for about 95 % of the world's population.
Yeah 20 degrees is room temperature in Canadian!
Just to clarify, in "-5C" the C does not stand for "Canadian" 😅
@@bobmcl2406 It stands for communist...........
0:52 outside temperatures around 20 degrees, negative 5 in 'C'anadian 😅
It was -23C here today. The daytime high. If that had happened here those kids would have 5 minutes to find shelter somewhere. Luckily the wind was pretty calm, that's -23 before windchill, eh? Around -30 after. (I was out and about for most of the day in it. Just a normal winter day here!)
EV + Canada = no.
Good for reporting this !!!!!!!!!!!!!! If this EV technology is so great, why does the EV industry need SO MUCH SUPPORT FROM WE THE TAXPAYERS ?!?!?!?!?!
Many take the money and run. Theft. 😮
It's a damn good thing the kids alerted the driver. How long will they continue to put children at risk? Good grief.
That's one of the things that people don't bring up about evs. I'm starting to work on these cars are dealership also sells EVS Honda prologues aka the Chevy Blazer. And I was going through some of the manuals and things like that and I came across something was rather interesting so there's a certain code or set of codes that can occur on a car that being possible internal coolant leak. So on these cars the electric vehicles the coolant reservoir tank is sealed. The minimum and maximum cool levels about a quarter inch between those marks. So if you have a certain code and there is no external coolant leaks. That means there's a possible or probable cause of coolant leaking into the battery cells themselves at that point your instructed to move the vehicle away from everything and then pressure check the battery to see if it's holding pressure and if not then contact the manufacturer for further instructions. If you're driving on the roadand you see the check engine light or warning light coming on it gives you an idea of something is wrong but let's say you drove the car long distance you parked it and you let it sit for a few days and then the thing failed while sitting which can definitely help with temperature going up and down and it leaks now you have a definite fire situation that will occur without any warning whatsoever. Kind of like mixing nitro on one side of a container and glycerin and the other and then shaking up really hard to see what happens. I myself would never own electric vehicle.
Not to mention the roads gets salted during the winter. Salty water makes it way into everything. Typically the cars would just rust out after a decade, guess we have a new fear...
“Is there a major issue with Lion Electric?” Probably not - there’s a major problem with electric vehicles.
Because ICE vehicles never catch fire.
@@RBzee112NOT LIKE THAT, NO WAY !!
@@RBzee112 EVs catch fire 5X as often as ICE, and they're what? 8% of the cars on the road? Do the maths.
ICE can catch fire due to terrible neglect or accidents. The chance of driving along & sudden fires erupting is zero otherwise.
Janus cement truck converted from diesel also caught fire on ITS FIRST JOURNEY!! WE ARE NOT LEARNING. Lithium Ion batteries are a known fire risk for 30 years even before they were put into vehicles. How stupid are the powers that be??
It's malice, not stupidity
I'm imagining thousands of these roaming the roads in california would be super wild!
Krap! I didn't even consider the kid'letts. Just like soup, it can be too hot or too cold. This was a current, electrifying story with a battery of good comments. I am so wired to take care of this problem! Thank you for the video. You R the "Stache-Training Whisperer"
In the early days of electric vehicles, I thought it would be good for safety. No fuel to burn, right? Nope. I called that one wrong.
Oh damn close to home
Beside my school
Every single day brings more 'Atlas Shrugged' type moments.
Bad novel writing moments?
@@JohnDoe-lw2nm yawn
@@JohnDoe-lw2nm Did your socialist professor teach you that? Instead of attacking the messenger, disprove the message she sent.I will gladly wait for your response. Please keep it civil
It's the parents responsibility to not let their kids ride the electric buses. It's going to happen, and maybe no compansation.
It the front batteries. The government needs to take these busses off the road. What about city busses
SAFE and EFFECTIVE!
Thank YOU!
On the plus side, the kids were able to warm themselves from the flames of the bus.
Protect kids.
1:44 it’s interesting that while the vehicle is burning, the hazard flasher lights are still working.
It's a common thing during vehicle fires.
It’s not only their stock price that is incinerating
Cold weather is not good for those batteries
Would the problem be the BMS not being able to cope with the large charges needed !!!
It makes sense that the cause of this fire came from a lithium battery under the hood, it totaled the whole bus. Gas vehicle fire usually don't do that, because they are usually extinguished before consuming the whole vehicle.
Not even proven that it was the hv batt. Shoot it could be the 12/14 volt battery. Might as well put down your phones too! My god, might start a fire !!!. The batt is not located in the front. The fire Dept did not have to extinguish with other material other than water. Ffs everybody needs to stop saying EVs are terrible.
@@stefk4862 Pray tell: What else under the hood of that bus could spontaneously catch fire? You say there's a 12 Volt battery in there? What for? The starter motor? 🧐
I've driven with 12 volt batteries for 40+ years, never once have any caught fire. Not one person I know had it happen. In extreme (+35 or more) heat they might catch fire, maybe, very rarely. In the cold? Never: it's physically impossible barring sabotage.
@@5Cats Google some elementary statistics. Gas vehicles are 22 times more likely to catch fire than EVs.
@@barontragg2466 google LMFAO you probably believe everything. CNN tells you to do you buddy..
So the kids that were on this bus were breathing smoke (not engine exhaust) which is what the Canadian govt. is directly trying to avoid for the environment.
Not to mention that ev fires burn longer, emitting more toxic smoke into the atmosphere. It is my understanding that gas vehicle fires are easier to extinguish. Hence why there is special training and firefighting equipment needed just for ev fires.
Ban the use of all lithium ion battery's.
Why? You work with lead and loosing bussines? 😂
The NiMH batteries should be out of patent by now.
Those are about half the energy density. As are sodium-ion batteries (which may work better in cold temperature applications.)
@@jamesphillips2285 nimh are very poor in all parameters.
Don't forget the salt put on the roads. That will accelerate corrosion.
I live near Huntsville. The report is that the batteries were not the cause of the fire, and did not ignite. Of course the cause mat still have been electrical. A previous similar bus fire was traced to the cab heater igniting.
That doesn't look very Green ta me. I blame the Governments for pushing this on manufactures, I don't put full blame on Lion Electric Bus. They're just trying to meet emission standard forced on them by Governments.
Nor do you want to see them at any time of the year standing around on a narrow, twisty rual highway. What could go wrong there?
It starts with the potholes.
Cold isn't the that big of an issue. I mean there is a huge fire to keep warm.
2 of the higest priced real estate in the usa were just taken out...
That was due to ICE vehicles polluting the atmosphere with fossil CO2, not EVs.
@jamesphillips2285 sure it was
-5C for Canadian kids is nice and warm. We literally had to go out in shorts to play soccer when I was a kid at those temperatures. Even at -35C, we still had to go outside for recess. At -40C, we got to stay inside. We spent hours outside at -20C. In the spring at -10C, we were so happy that it was so warm and could unzip our jackets.
Fun fact. -40C = -40F
Ban lithium ion batteries!
Not even proven that it was the hv batt. Shoot it could be the 12/14 volt battery. Might as well put down your phones too! My god, might start a fire !!!
Oh geez, thats a nasty fire eh! Whats that all aboot?
You mentioned temperatures of 20F or -5C. Check out the weather for the next week. Temperatures across North Eastern Ontario are going to more like -15C to -20C. Even wolves would find it difficult to get by at those freezing temperatures. School kids? Yikes!
Also in the photos, they are NOT evacuating the children out the Rear Doors, where it would be much safer. Is there also something wrong with the rear emergency doors, and ladders (or slides) on these buses? Given only one driver, who mans the rear doors?
What type of heater does the bus use?
ua-cam.com/video/ZIRSf1kVK9U/v-deo.html
diesel
CHEERS from AUSTRALIA
"I say, there's something wrong with our bloody busses today!" 😂
CTV mentioned the bus burning BUT never said it was an electric bus.
It's time to seriously consider banning EVs..
My new neighbors have their EV parked about 7 or 8 ft from my garage, which os attached to my home, and they leave it plugged in overnight..
This has been a constant fear/concern for me since they moved in less than one year ago..
There is absolutely no way if that thing goes up, ..that it won't spread to my home.
😡
I hope you dont have any electronics in your home.
@NoName-md5zb 🙄
What is it with people like you always using absolute ex tr memes to make your "arguments 🤔
If I made a statement that "I don't drink alcohol"
Your response would be, "then you don't drink water, or milk, or juice, or soda??!"
..😐
.. just jump right to the absolute ex tr eme
🙄 🤷
If I said "lions are dangerous"..
.."I hope you don't have any pets.." dur her her 🤤
Congratulations, you just added absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.
@@warthogA10 A paid shill responding. Each response back to them they get paid, but they won’t get a single cent outta me. I see them on other channels, and I refuse to answer them back.
You can block their notifications BTW if they do respond.
Yes, cause gas cars never catch fire...
@@plastiksurgeon9129 bruv... it was a joke
all those in charge will not give a damn unit the kids are barbecued
From what I have seen of various PEV designs, there clearly needs to be a robust design language and regulation for this technology.
ban
I don’t like how it takes fire blankets , and major major resources to deal with these fires . The batteries are a whole bunch of AA batteries soldered together . These vehicles are going to fail the way the batteries are made , so many solders that can fail.
Fire blankets are useless: the battery fires are self oxygenating. They burn underwater, they'd burn in outer space!
All fire departments can do is hose them down to try to cool them off (so they don't explode!) until they run their course. It takes 3x as long and 4x as much water than any ICE fire. Just for a car! I figure large EVs are even worse.
@@5Cats and who is paying that bill ? I saw in the states the fire department had a $7,000 fire blanket they used per car fire . Then towed the smoldering care down the highway to the dump where it kept smouldering . I can tell you my fire chief is also the bylaw guy , his buddy drives a Tesla and I worry for the day the car lights up in the forest and started a Los Angeles fire up in Northern Ontario. Great video , we need to get ahead of this EV disaster
@ A fire blanket of any size cannot "put out" an EV fire, period. Even submerging it in a huge tank of water (a proposed 'solution') doesn't put the fire out. If the fire gets hot enough the entire battery could explode, making things far worse. So just dragging it to the dump does at least keep it off the streets, but at any time on that trip it could blow up! So they douse it with water and try to keep it cool.
You are correct: every EV fire should be counted and accounted for. Just like all other traffic matters (like DUI or dangerous cars) are.
That was my bus it was scary we had to run down the road when we got down the road the whole bus was engulfed in flames we are not hurt just shaken up
Must have been so scary. So glad nobody was hurt! Kudos to the bus driver for acting so quickly to keep you all safe.💛
@@libbytelford I thank my bus driver to he got all the backpacks of the bus to I thank him that I am here today
No battery powered vehicle should be ripping around in cold wet environments. Every battery manufacture says do not use under certain temps but yet thats all we do in EVs is go against any battery rule. 😂
My EV (2011 Leaf) keeps the traction battery at a safe temperature with battery heaters, unless the SOC drops below 30%.
I am supposed to be able to let my car sit for a week in cold temperatures: but I have a parasitic drain I have not tracked down yet. Limiting me to 3 days in extreme cold without shore power.
Edit: you are probably referring to the e-bike catching fire on the subway video. E-bikes have much smaller batteries that lack the capacity to run a battery heater for days at a time.
"Negative five Canadian." - cute.
Also note that the moisture would be mixing with the road salt to make a brine solution. So, if moisture is making its way into a battery compartment, that moisture would be a brine mixture.
You would expect the front pack to be splashed upon more than the middle packs.
Regarding any water intrusion, would road salt in the water be a factor precipitating these two fires? EV fires have occurred in Florida where the vehicles are subjected to salt water flooding in coastal communities after major storms.
When the school bus breaks down and the children are evacuated on a cold day the bus catches fire so that the children don’t get cold. It’s a built in safety measure for electric buses.
Electric vehicles are NOT ready
At least cover what type of cabin heaters these have?
I have: ua-cam.com/video/ZIRSf1kVK9U/v-deo.html
@StacheDTraining thanks!
At least the kids could keep warm, getting a heat from the burning bus. Just don’t stand too close.
Would you happen to know age model of they bus
I saw one of the schools "hopes" that they work out. What..... i get it they were given to the school district but it's kids as you said.
Darn right the electric bus has a problem it's missing an internal combustion engine. I wouldn't let my enemy's kid ride in one of these.
I'm grateful that my department covers a rural district. EVs are few and far between here.
This incident happened in a rural district. The federal government is funding bus operators to buy these vehicles. They've allocated billions of tax dollars to it.
Give me an old fashioned, tried and true diesel bus any day of the week!
What is not taken into account from what you said is the use of the bus on roads that are not always paved, adding physical shock to the body of the bus which is not always controlled by the suspension. That why the kids love sitting in the back of the bus on hilly or rough roads and getting bounced out of their seats.
The buses are made in Montreal. Cabazon, that'll explain it right there. It's like bombardier jets just mountain but a piece of garbage
It's not quite true to say there is no Lithium. Yes when they leave the factory it is in salt form BUT in extreme cold or when rapidly charged Lithium plating occurs which is the deposition of metal Lithium on the Anode. This then causes dentrites which then perforate the separating membrane and ...........
Well kids, you can be really hot or really cold, the choice is yours
Won't somebody please think about the shareholders?
No
the share what ?
the lion bankruptcy certificate holders?
They gonna have trouble. Not surprising. 😮
Not just Lion Electric, all EVs.
Wait until they get old. Ka-Blam!!!
-5 Celsius is not cold for us Canadians. We dress for it. So a few students having to stand outside isn’t a problem. Battery safety in those temperatures is.
Huntsville is farther north and colder than Toronto. Electric vehicles (EVs) might not perform well in the winter conditions there.
Stop putting kids on these dam things NOW
Canadian children are so wholesome and innocent... If this was in Britain the bus fire would have been started by 8-year-old kids using their cigarette lighters to get the charcoal barbecue they'd hidden behind the seats started. "Oi, George - do we have any more petrol?"
Note: I'm only making a joke about this because nobody was injured. I condemned the whole EV bus idea in an earlier StacheD Training video. Beta-testing 'green' technology on children - CHILDREN - is obscene. Imagine the outcry and mockery from the West about poor safety standards if these bus fires were occurring in China.
Kids can stay warm from the fire.
Ev are bad la kept burning cause the battery keep the fire going so it spread imagine a whole state running on ev then no firefighters can put it out and it spread the whole state