Philly Sour Yeast Info & Souring Method 🍻 Sour Beer Brewing Part 3 RaspBerry Sour
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- This video contains information about the new Philly sour yeast and also my first beer fermented with it. Full information on the beer recipe and fermentation practises, including the fruit are included.
Link to the Lallemand webinar "Philly Sour - Yeast For Lactic Acid Production" :- • Philly Sour - Yeast Fo...
Recipe:-
Brewfather link:- share.brewfath...
Raspberry Sour - 4.6%
American-Style Fruited Sour Ale
Author: David Heath
Batch Size : 19 L
IBU : 7 (Tinseth)
Colour : 6 EBC
Original Gravity : 1.042
Final Gravity : 1.007
Boil Time : 30 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75%
Fermentables
1.67 kg / 3.68 lbs -Pilsner Malt 37.1%
1.21 kg / 2.66 lbs - Raspberry (Fruit) 26.9%- Added to fermenter late
940 g / 2.07 lbs - Wheat Malt 21%
280 g / 0.61 lbs - Acidulated 6.2%
230 g / 0.50 lbs - Oats, Flaked 5.1%
170 g / 0.37 lbs - Carapils/Carafoam 3.8%
Hops
30 min - Centennial - 6 IBU
5 min - Centennial - 1 IBU
Miscellaneous
15 min - Boil - 1 items - Yeast Nutrients
10 min - Boil - 1 items - Irish Moss
Yeast
1 pkg - Philly Sour - Lallemand
Fermentation schedule:-
Days 1-4 24C (or until adding the fruit late in fermentation).
Then raise to 25C once the fruit is in place.
Channel links:-
groups/Brewbeer
www.teespring....
Introduction music:- Drink Beer (Till The Day That I Die) by Dazie Mae
Brewed this using a no-boil steeping method. Hit a gravity of 1.033 pre-fruit addition and it fully attenuated to 1.000. Just tasted yesterday after 12 days in the bottle and it was delicious. Colour was a beautiful red and lots of delicious raspberry and citrus flavours. Thanks so much for all your work. Your videos are extremely educational for a novice brewer like myself.
Great to hear Paul. Yes, I real love the raw brew with fruit, so much flavour :)
Thanks so much for your wonderful presentation. I have this yeast and I love berliner weisse...I'm gonna try making one with this...inspired by your video greatly - I admit, sours do give me pause, but I have a separate vessel which I may employ to try this. This is MUCH EASIER than the typical method of producing a sour beer.
Great to hear , enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Another high quality video! I just bought two sachets of Philly sour yeast looking at it like "that's some cheap lactobacillus blend for my kettle sour". I realized hours after purchase that it's a lactic acid producing yeast and not a bacteria blend. Got me really concerned as I don't have FV dedicated for sour beers and don't want all my brews going sour. It was real calming knowledge to hear from you that regular cleaning routine is enough to get rid of the bacteria. Thank you so much!
Many thanks, much appreciated. Yes this stuff is just great. No kettle souring or fuss. Nice and easy :)
Thanks for this video David. I'll be using Philly Sour for the first time this week end and this video answered all my questions.
Great to hear Jean :) Hope you enjoy the full experience of this yeast :)
Awesome video as always. Love all the detail about this new souring yeast and the fruit sour process. Your raspberry sour looks amazing, I must try this! Thank you for all you do.
Thank you very much Alan, much appreciated :)
Thanks alot for this wonderfull beer. Its slightly sour. As a german i knew Berliner weisse with raspberry sirup. This has almoust the same flavour without the sweet Part. The taste of the fruit although is lighter. Cold on a hot summer day would be perfekt. I will brew this again for the summer. At least one more time... or two... or three 😉 thank you very much. Conclusion for the fruittaste: add some sirup to your likening 🤗
Cheers. Yes I think some prefer without the syrup but shared this way it can be an option. Glad you are enjoying it 🍻🍻🍻
Nutmeg flesh tasted amazing with sour beer style.
Yes, I agree :) I enjoy the effect in various styles.
Nice ! I just bought this yeast to make a Berliner Weisse with it and will probably add fruit to half so this is very helpful, thanks for the video !
Great to hear :) Yes that will work nicely :)
Just waiting for my Brewzilla to rock up and cant wait to give this a go :D keep up the awesomeness :D
Great and thank you :)
Nice video, I am not a sour fan but always like to see how a beerstyle is made. I liked the murder scene :-) Thanks
Thanks Chris. Yes it really did look like blood!
Thanks! Helpful and well-done video. For my taste, it was neither too little nor too much info. I’m using tamarind with this yeast. It’s only a few days into fermentation and I’m already second-guessing myself, but only time will tell 🤞
Great to hear Lindsay, thank you :)
Thanks David very helpful. Start brewing this week- Inspired by you and the famous Cigar City Session Dragon & Passion Fruit Berliner Weisse. 😀
Great to hear. Go for it!! 🍻🍻🍻
Thanks, David! As always, your videos are chock-full of valuable information backed up with hands on experience.
Just wondering - you don't seem very concerned with exposure to oxygen when you are stirring the bags of fruit in the beer. I trust your judgement, but having experienced the results of oxidization in a batch of fruit beer, I am hyper-vigilant in this regard.
How do you minimize this risk?
Thanks again!
Hi Tom, Great to hear.
As long as you are gentle then all will be well.
What I did here was fine, as a guideline.
Thank you David.
Cheers 🍺
Interestingly the Lallemand pitch calculator now says 15 grams for that same gravity and batch size at the 24C temperature. If I input a 30C ferment it returns the original 9.7 grams.
Sounds more realistic to me 🍻🍻🍻
Awesome video David! I will be kegging mine today.
Many thanks Jennifer, hope you enjoy it :)
Thanks for posting this! so excited try this yeast!
Glad you enjoyed it, this yeast is certainly very useful:)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew already have 2 pounds
of saber on the way!
Great :)
As always informative and interesting, Thanks for your effort 👍
Many thanks Allan, much appreciated :)
Hi David,
Thanks for the video!
What;s the difference between using fresh fruit that have been thawed in a "hop" bag vs a fruit puree that's directly poured into the wort?
Hi Lionel, none , assuming the qaulity is the same 🍻🍻
Great Vid - definitely going to try this yeast and exciting to hear you’re going to do a Gose next - 💥
Many thanks James. Yes this yeast is for sure interesting stuff :) Yes, Gose will be the next in this series. It has already been brewed and will be kegged this weekend ready for taste test and final filming.
As others have said, another very informative video... again. I've tried a lot of new brewing techniques as a result of watching your catalogue of videos. I've been thinking about kettle souring, but work commitments and the fact that I have to brew outdoors have made me wonder if I could manage it. This yeast is a game changer and I've already ordered 2 packs. I do have a couple of questions if you don't mind: (1) Is this yeast OK for bottle conditioning and (2) if I do a small batch and only use half a packet, will the remainder keep for a while? Thank you.
Hey and great to hear 🍻🍻🍻
Sure, here are my answers:-
1) No, best to either keg or add something else.
2) Yes, if you vacuum seal it and keep it in the fridge.
Hi David. Great video as always. I like your recipe and will be my next brew. I would just classify it as a Catharina Sour instead of a generic American fruited sour, especially with the low IBU and hop character.
Thanks Anderson :)
David, love your video’s and find them very helpful. I am a home brewer that has been brewing for 4 years. I think I have heard you mention a forum that you have started.Not sure if so I have a question I would like to post. I just can’t find answers for in other HB chats . Please share the link to the forum. Thanks
Thanks Mark. I share links to the Facebook group at the end of all my more recent videos. Here it is:- facebook.com/groups/BrewBeer
Or you can simply go to Facebook groups and search for "BrewBeer". The group is called "David Heath Homebrew group".
Hi David. I'm planning on brewing this recipe, and have a question about using berries vs puree. Can I assume a 1:1 weight relationship, as in 1 kg of berries equals 1 kg of puree or is the puree more concentrated as it might have skin and seeds removed ?
Hi Birger, yes I would go 1:1. Enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
Brewed this one today. How long should the raspberries stay in? Do you take the hop socks out for cold crash or leave them in? Looking forward to this. Cheers
Cheers Tom.
Once you have a consistent final gravity then its time to cold crash. You can leave the hops and fruit in place or remove them.
I made this beer with 2-row instead of Pilsner. The resulting sour is delicious and tastes of raspberry juice. Hardly tastes like a beer at all, due to almost no maltiness. I’m not sure if this is because of my use of 2-row or if that’s how the recipe is designed. Overall I really enjoy this beer the only complaint I have is there is no flavor on the mid palate. Like when you drink it you can taste it on the front and back but nothing in the middle. Even if you hold the beer in your mouth your mid palate will never detect any flavors. I had several people confirm this same phenomenon. I’d love to know how to get more of a mid palate. Maybe need a maltier base malt, more wheat, or change of water chemistry. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
These sour types of beer are really on their own and adding fruit blurs the lines even more. The use if two row will be a subtle change. Usually the flavour in the middle is the sourness. Is yours not so sour?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Mine ended up with a final pH of 3.2. Shockingly low for this yeast. I think it is from my pH adjustments while brewing, and the fruit itself. The beer wasn't mouth puckeringly sour though. It was quite nice. Lots of people said they loved it. Some people disliked it because it was so unfamiliar to the typical sours they are used to.
@kingquesoIV Sours are not really a crowd pleaser but some can develop more of a taste for them over time. I wasnt so sure about them myself at first.
Great! I am going to try this one.
I consider myself as not a huge fan of sour beer, maybe this will turn me around :-)
Great, thank you. This is very entry level sour beer wise. Very refreshing :)
Hi David, I'm planning on brewing this beer this weekend. I was wondering is the nutrition needed for this beer? I bought everything except that haha! Loving the videos!
The nutrients are like an insurance, you never know when you will need it 🍻
Once again, a great video. Been brewing a lot of your recipes lately. Could you say something about the water adjustments on this one? Brewing it tonight with an overnight-mash
Sorry that I only just saw this :) I would use a balanced profile personally but there is no wrong way, just different taste :)
Hi David, great video, why do you get an off flavor if you omit dumping the trub? What off flavor? I have read several times that you should either dump the trub or transfer to a secondary fermenter but never seen an explanation of what is going on that causes the off flavor. I ask since I ferment in a 5gal corny keg with a shorter dip tube and do spunding, so I cannot remove the trub and it is very tempting to just open the lid, drop the fruit and use the CO2 from fruit fermentation to carbonate the beer with the spunding valve.
The off flavour is caused by the fruits chemical reaction to the waste products in the trub. The creates an unclean flavour. I know its tempting to go the easy route here but the end result will not be one that you are happy with. I guess the best way it to do a enclosed transfer into another keg if you have one. If not transfer into a regular fermenter, clean and sanitise the keg and then transfer back. Hassle I know but better than making a beer you end up throwing out :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks David! I'll figure out how to follow your advice in the Apple Dubbel I'll brew in the weekend
Great, hope it goes well for you :)
David, thank you for your videos. Fermentation was 10 days total and then 2 days coldcrush? Sorry but I was a little bit lost.
Fruits added over day 4, of fermeanation? Why did you use hopsocks and not just send the fruit over? Also on the minute 9:39 you just removed a part of the beer, how much was it and why? Sorry about all the questions but first time brewing a sour.
Thank you.
Yes a 2 day cold crash. Temperature is reduced down low to assist yeast and solids to separate and drop for clarity.
The fruit is added into hopsocks so that is easy to separate and cannot cause clogging.
Just waiting for this to finish fermenting but I have a couple of questions.
I added 100g of dried hibiscus flowers at 10 minutes in the boil and 1kg of raspberry puree after 4 days fermentation.
What should the expected ph be of the finished beer? Mine is 3.3
It also went lower than the expected fg to 1.009.
First sour I have made so not sure what to expect from the taste but sure does taste good so far.
Thanks for the video very helpful.
Hi, Fruit like this will lower ph. Quite often brewers will reduce ph to fully match the fruit but naturally this can be sour and is subject to taste.
I am thinking about making a Peach Berliner weisse with this yeast
I think that would work nicely :)
David, Can you give us any guidance on the water target profile?
Is there a general rule if I want it to become more or less sour?
I would suggest a balanced profile. Let the recipe and ph decide 🍻🍻
"In west Philadelphia born and raised" Anyone else start singing fresh prince when this line came up?
Haha
Hey David, great video! I'm going to brew this beer this weekend. Just got one question. If transferring to a secondary would you wait till after a diacetyl rest or after the 4 days transfer then add the yeast?
I would suggest transferring into secondary for fruit as you are approaching the end of your initial fermentation.
I watched the presentation by philly university but I’ve found some discrepancies that are confusing. The pitch rate per L in the presentation was 1-1.5g per L but the packet says 0.5-1.0g per L. How have you interpreted this? Also I found the info in the presentation was very good with a lot of really interesting info. One that I have employed was to add half my fruit purée (with glucose) at the beginning of fermentation because they found that early glucose additions gave a more stone fruit flavour, with the flavour being on the red apple side without glucose. It would be great to have such rich data on all yeasts
Yes, I also saw this. I used the pitching calculator on the Lallemand website and was surprised how fast the fermentation went, considering that this is stated as a slow fermenter.
Fantastic video. One point that may require further clarification is pitch rate. Others have commented on this as well. Lallemand's pitch rate calculator (www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/brewers-corner/brewing-tools/pitching-rate-calculator/) returns a default 0.5g/l for this yeast. Studies by the USciences group that discovered the yeast recommend double that amount (1-1.5g/l). In your query to Lallemand, you were concerned about pitching the 'full' 11g sachet because the calculator suggested 9.9g. I think, however, the question the community is asking is whether the question should have instead been, "Wait, the seminar thinks 9.9g is not enough. Shouldn't your calculator be returning 20g for this size batch and yeast?" Said differently, had you asked Dr. Farber's team, they likely would have recommended two 11g sachets. Of course, you've since brewed with the single packet, and so perhaps that's the best evidence of how well it soured...and of course it's much more economical to pitch a single sachet if that does the trick. Thanks for all the great videos.
Yes, you raise a good point and this is something that I did discuss with Lallemand at length. I have to say that at this pitch rate I am delighted with the end result. Others have followed it also and have reported back (see my FB group) with glowing reviews. Do not forget that the yeast is Lallemands own formulation.
Hi David, I'm trying to do this recipe with a friend and I would gently ask you some information about adding fruit. We have frozen raspberries: can you please tell us the precise way to act? Thanks a lot and awesome contents!
Hi, yes :)
Thaw the fruit.
Use a clean and sanitary bag for the fruit.
I show this in the video 🍻🍻🍻
I have made wine with all of those fruits listed apart from raspberry :-). Plum was a full bodied wine less to my preference than the others. I cannot see that the other fruit listed would impart sourness. Raspberry is a tart fruit, maybe Bluebery, the others not. Orange and Lemon?
Thanks very much.
Yes plenty of choices to suit your own taste. Orange and lemon would be interesting I think :)
Brilliant video David especially as I want to brew a sour in September, which I must admit will be my first although I helped Mike Halls in Cape Town brew his sour in April 2019.
I have a load of freshly picked Black currants so I was thinking of doing a sour with these and blackberries!
Do you think that would work? Or should I just experiment anyway and hope for the best 😂
Cheers David thank you mate!!!!
Thanks :) Yes I am sure that would work well :)
David, thanks for all the great information you publish. If I wanted to try this yeast for a sour NEIPA, would the early dry hop for biotransformation affect the souring process with the yeast? Thanks again
Hi and thank you :) No problem with adding dry hops with this yeast. It is very hop tolerant :)
Very informative as always! I'm a big fan of the raw ale method, having successfully made a few NEIPAs inspired by your video. Any thoughts on trying the no boil route with this one?
Many thanks Paul. Yes, no problem going raw on sour beers. In fact there are breweries out there that specialise in raw brewed sour beers. There is one local to me called "EIk Og Tid", I covered their process in a video some time ago.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew It worked out great David. Big hit with my sour beer loving friends too! Just about to brew a peach sour with the Philly Sour yeast.
Great to hear Paul. Yes, I have not had any complaints either :)
Been wanting to make a rhubarb sour for a while. Has anyone made this with rhubarb? Just thought the amount of sugar in the rhubarb would be considerably less than raspberries. We thought we might have to add some dextrose or some other form of sugar
Hi Emma, yes Rhubarb is for sure lower. Having said that if its the flavour you want rather than the extra ABV then it may not be an issue. Let me know if you try it, I would be interested in the results.
Would love to know how this changed with conditioning. Just pitched my first Philly sour today wasn't going to add fruit but I think it's going to happen now 🤣
The flavour developed a little more since my notes shared in this video. It did not last long though :)
Given the watercontent of raspberry, will it not dilute the beer itself, or does BF take that into account?
Its all covered 🍻🍻🍻
Hi David, I've adjusted my water profile to Balanced. After auto adjusting it's 5.65. What should I be targeting? Can I add phosphoric acid to lower the pH? Cheers
Sorry David, I should mention that I don't intend to use acidulated malt... Hence the higher pH...
I tried scouring the comments section for a target mash pH but couldn't find one. I know 3.5 is what we're aiming for at the end... But curious as to what I should be mashing at.
Thank you 🙂
No problem.
You are not far off there ph wise. Ideally 5.2 to 5.4. You can use Brewfather to cakculate what to add for the adjustment. Just set up the salts for it to use in advance, if you have not already.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Awesome! Yes, I've now adjusted it in the Acid Mash section. Thanks for your help! Wonderful & informative content. Cheers!
Great , enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
I'm very keen on brewing with this yeast, very excited. Thanks for inspiring us even further. You quote an OG of 1.042, I assume that's not including the raspberries in that measurement?
Great. That includes the fruit but it is only an estimate of course :)
Gotcha.
Software can only estimate but it is a fair guide.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew... Do you think extrapolating with a hydrometer and refractometer could work in this case?
If you take a gravity reading with a hydrometer before and after adding the fruit then you will have the data you need to know the strength.
Hi David , I would appreciate your opinion on this yeast adding any complexity to a sour beer as compared to bacterial souring or straight addiction of lactic acid. Thanks for filling me in on this topic David. We’ll done videos.
Many thanks Win. Certainly this end result is not very complex but it does suit various sour beer types that do not require such complexity or fruit notes.
Hi David, great video! I don't know if this was asked already, but when you squeeze out the raspberries, aren't you worried about massive oxidation?
Hi Lasse. I've not had any issues personally. Just be gentle as shown and there should be no concerns.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew alright thanks!
:)
Hi David. I'm about half way through fermentation. Adding fruit today. My question: I'm planning on botteling and am concerned about cold crashing not leaving me with enough yeast to carbonate the bottles. I'm thinking of not cold crashing and just giving it a good sit before botteling. Any thoughts?
You could fully cold crash and then add a bottle conditioning yeast like CBC-1.
The cold crashing will generally extend the time taken to carbonate rather than disrupt it though.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Good to know. Thanks for the info.
@bjornfisk great, cheers 🍻🍻🍻
Thanks for this video and recipe, i will try this for sure! can i use something else then the acidulated malt? and do starting Ph matter?
Hi, Great :) Yes, the acid malt is purely for getting the right ph for the mash and can be used for any brew. Brewfather gives easy calcs for water treatment using other chemicals. Yes, ph is important for any beer style.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks, i mean for this specific one, does it need to have at a certain ph before put in the fermenter? =)
then i can use lactic acid instead of acid malt?
Sure, no problem there :)
@@jockesjoberg7367 no need to put anything. the acidity will be produced even if the ph is a lil bit higher. i didnt put any acid malt or any lactic acid and it was pretty tart after 14 days of fermentstion
Yup, that is how it is used :)
is bottle conditioning with this yeast a problem...I have heard it does not do well?
Correct. You should use something like CBC-1 to be on the safe side
This was absolutely delicious. Only problem was everyone wanted to drink it. Im thinking of using the same recipe but replacing the fruit with strawberry and rhubarb in equal amounts (750g each). Would you think this would be alright and would you cook the rhubarb or put it in raw?
Great to hear Tom. Yes, I had the same problem:) Rhubarb has an awesome flavour and I am sure this would work. Strawberry, when fermented I find is a question of taste. Some like it but not all. Using more than one fruit usually requires some balancing for the best results. I would try such a recipe with a small batch first personally.
Hi David, I'm going to do this one tomorrow, my question is, I'm going on holiday around the time it is finished and was wondering can i put the beer in the keg and purge the oxygen out and put it in the fridge till I come back from holiday in two weeks and then add the co2.
Cheers for everything.
Keith.
Cheers Keith. Yes, no problems there 🍻 Enjoy your holiday 😎
Hi and thanks for a great channel! Im quite new to brewing but wanted to try this out. The recipe itself doesnt seem so hard, but cant find any information about letting it co2ferment (name for this?) in bottles, can it be done? how much sugar to add/l of brew?, thanks again for a great channel and inspiration
Thanks 🍻
This yeast is not suggested for use as part of bottle carbonation. I would suggest adding a bottling yeast like CBC-1, which is made by Lallemand.
David, Awesome video!!! I have been looking to try and make a Fruited Berliner Weisse but didn't want to kettle sour. The Philly Sour yeast looks like the way to go. I only have a couple questions, my apologies if someone has already asked this and I missed it in the comments. I know the philly sour yeast will bring down the ph so my first question is regarding the ph of my mash before adding the philly sour yeast.
1. What was your target my mash ph when you brewed your raspberry sour before adding the yeast (5.2 - 5.5)?
2. Did you have a target water profile, if yes would you mind sharing?
Thanks!
Paul
Sure no problem.
1) 5.2
2) I suggest a balanced water profile for sours.
Hi! David, could you please describe the process how you preboil fruits?:)
I don’t pre boil fruit 🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew oh... So, did you just thaw fruits and that's it?
Yes :) Just make sure you are clean and sanitary when handling.
Hi David! Thanks for the great video. I have my first batch with Philly Sour in the fermenter now. It’s been fermenting for 24 hours now and it’s really been hard at work all day long. I plan on adding raspberry fruit purée after the lactic production phase. Do you recommend transferring off the trub for purée the same as for whole fruit as you used?
Hi! Love your tag! Yes, I recommend this for any type of fruit personally. It is the safest method for the best result 🍻🍻🍻
Ok, thank you for the reply! I enjoyed the show Breaking Bad and I also love how brewing is such an art and science all mixed together. Plus, if I happen to make a bad batch, well, I kind of told you I would haha!
Yes, I am a huge fan of the show and have a video series I called Brewing Bad.
Hi David, I'm planning on brewing your recipe this weekend and I have a question about the amount of raspberry your used. I'm referring to the ''Milk the funk'' chart and they recommend 1 to 2.5 lbs of raspberries per gallon of beer. Your using 0.5 lbs of raspberry per gallon of beer. Were you happy with the raspberry flavor you got or did you wish you added more?
Hi Jean, Each recipe I share is tested and tweaked and is only shared when I am satisfied with the end result. There can be no standard amounts really.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thank you for your reply, I will follow your recepi like you suggest.
@jean-raphaellavoie34 Great, enjoy 🍻🍻🍻
I used 2 lbs because that what I had and the color and aroma is spot on. Thnaks.
Ok great 😎😎😎
Hi David. Looks awesome. Will be brewing this soon.
I have two questions; did you do anything to “sanitize” the frozen fruit before adding it to the fermenter(boil, pasteurize or similar)? and why not add the fruit during active fermentation (24-48 hours) as recomended by lallemand?
Cheers🍻
Thanks Daniel.
I just buy fruit ready frozen, then its been taken care of. You get a better and cleaner flavour by adding the fruit later 🍻🍻😎
Hi, I got a question. If I remember correctly, I’ve seen another video of yours where you recommend to sprinkle some US-05 in each bottle if to bottlecondition Philly Sour. Here you mentions that it is possible to add another yeast in the fermenter after the first few days (since the lactic acid is already created). Would it then be possible to put that strait into bottles (since you then already have added the us-05?)
Yes, that would work :)
Brewing this now with a jacket sans a temp controller and it's been at 83F or 23C for 4 days, smells amazing, wondering if the increased temperature will be hugely detrimental?
That will be fine :) Enjoy :)
I have a 35L snub nose fermenter and cannot dump the trub.
Would you recommend transferring to secondary(plastic bucket) and risk oxidation or just add the fruit without dumping?
Or should I start in the plastic bucket and secondary on snub nose?
I would recommend transfer. Done without splashing is easy, so no real risk essentially.
Hey David, what was your post boil hydrometer reading before you pitched? Obviously you predict a 1.042 OG which includes the raspberries but what was the OG excluding this? Also, what was your mash pH, and was this recorded pre or post boil? Cheers.
Hi, I didnt take those measurements, ive been this enough to relax with it. If you remove the fruit in Brewfather then this will give you a decent prediction. Mash ph was 5.2, I dont follow it past this unless its a sour.
Great video again David, is there any point in adding yeast nutrient to the fermenter if you forgot to put It in the boil.
Yes, though add it to a little water and give it a quick boil. Then let it cool before adding :)
Ok thx I was unsure about adding direct, boiling it is then🍺
Thanks David. Doing a Gose with Philly this weekend. Would you ever do a series on Krausening? I want to attempt it for this batch with reserved wort, any thoughts?
Thanks Conor. Maybe, though its not a technique that I have used for a long time personally
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I'll give it a shot and let you know how it turns out.
Great :) Enjoy :)
As always very good and interesting video and recipe. Did brew your pineapplel kveik last time and it was superb.
I, dont understand the piching rate because 19l of 1,045 sg wort. The lallemand pitch calculator suggest to use one pack of 11g. But in your fermentation summary slide lallemand suggest 1 to 1.5g/l. What should i do pitch one or two packs for optimal souring and attenuation?
Great to hear Jelle :) For this one go with the calculator, it worked out great for me :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I did some research, and mailed lallemand, when i pitched 1 pack in 17L 1.045 wort. Just to let you (and your followers) know and changeout knowledge about this exceptional yeast this is what they send to me (they reply fast!) : Thanks for your question. Our official guidelines recommend 0.5-1.0g/L, but recent experiments in the lab suggest that higher pitching rates (up to 1.5g/L) are associated with higher levels of lactic acid. You should be fine with your pitch rate of 0.65g/L, especially considering that your brew was not particularly high gravity. If you brew with WildBrewTM Philly Sour again you could consider pitching two sachets to see if you are able to produce a bit more lactic acid, but lower pitch rates are fine as well. I would recommend fermenting at a slightly warmer temperature closer to 25’C if you are using a lower pitch rate.
Great info Jelle, many thanks for sharing it :)
great video David. Quick question on the fruit, did you do anything to remove bacteria from the fruit before adding in? You mentioned that you just defrosted the fruit but had it been previously cooked? Does the lower PH mean this isn't necessary in this example?
Hi Ben, I always freeze my fruit before use. If I buy it frozen then I tend to leave it at that. If not then I add campden tablets 24 hours before use.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks David. The other question I wanted to ask is if you went for a specific water profile?
I used the balanced profile in Brewfather.
Hi @@DavidHeathHomebrew, did this one twice with raspberry and it’s been good and supergood. So third time it will be with blueberries. Same amount of fruit as with raspberries? And, do you have any recommendation if I want to add a bit of vanilla? Apart from soaking in vodka to kill nasties
Yes, I would go for the same weight. Im not sure if Vanilla is a good match though.
Hi David, thanks for this recipe, its exactly what I'm after to enter the world of sours.
I have started it over the weekend, though I have quick question regarding the fruit. I bought some frozen raspberries to put in on day 4, but Im not sure if I need to pasteurise them or not. Can you provide any guide here?
Great :)
Fruit that is supplied frozen is almost always treated before it is packaged and frozen. I have used a lot of it and have never had an issue.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Just wanted to post a quick note to say thank you for this recipe and your assistance. It has come out incredibly well, and it's disappearing quickly out of the keg! A really great recipe to get started into sours.
Great to hear :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Wonderful video and recipe. I was wondering the same about frozen fruit, so thanks for answering the question here.
Great, thanks Patrick 🍻🍻🍻
Hey David. Might be a stupid question but when I rack the beer into a secondary fermentor wouldn't there be any yeast left over to ferment the raspberries? Or is the yeast still floating in the wort/beer? Cheers
Hi Samuel, this is a common question :)
The yeast will still be active within the wort. Whats left is dead or too tired to do any more for you.
Hi David, Great video I'm using this recipe for my first ever Sour and it is smelling really good. The question I have for you is, how long can you leave the berries in the fermenter? I'm currently on Day 11 and it seems to be still active. I have to go out of town for a week which means almost 20 days in the fermenter. I am worried that the fruit will go rotten? Thoughts?
Hi Tom, Great to hear. There is no issue with having fruit in the fermenter for quite some weeks, after all this is how wines are fermented.
The amount we use for beer is far less, so the fermentation time is less but as long as the fv is not opened then all will be fine.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks very much!
Cheers Tom 🍻
Hi David. I'm going to have a go at this this weekend as my first Philly sour brew. I was just wondering if any water adjustment is needed?
Hi, I would suggest a balanced profile. The one found in Brewfather works well.
Hello, when you talk about pitch and calculate the yeast for your Wort, you say you use 1 pkt for 19 litres. but in the result of the calculation, you say 1g/l. What the thing I Don 't understand?
And thank's for your video
Yeah, this also confused me a little, I opened the calculator and it shows the same yeast amount even if I select nottingham or something else than philly sour... Also in the seminar they said that u should use 2 packets in a 19 liter (5 gallon) batch. The only thing that comes to my mind is that because raspberries are kinda sour he needed less lactic acid produced because the raspberries would provide some acid.
I used one packet for 19L for "this" brew. What you must do though is use the calculator to see how your volume and gravity effects the amount to use. This will vary depending on those amounts.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew i just found the calculator on the lallemand website, thank you
Very important with this yeast in particular :)
I brewed this today, I used galaxy hops instead and will be using passionfruit.
I can't dump the trub in my fermenter, could I transfer to a keg then add the fruit? I plan on letting it finish under pressure in the keg.
You would be better transferring to another fermenter first then a keg with fruit.
Hello, David. You mentioned dumping the trub, but isn’t the trub part yeast at this point?
Worn out or dead yeast yes.
What's the thinking behind dumping trub before (or just after) adding fruit? I dont get how not doing it would add a funny taste?
This is a common practise to avoid yeast autolysis and to obtain a cleaner flavour overall.
@@DavidHeathHomebrewI thought I had replied to this- I wouldn't have thought you'd get autolysis in such a short period unless it's a specific thing with this product. (philly sour)
That is just one part of the concern really. The main issue is the unclean flavour. By all means try both methods and see what you think, I usually do with any thing new.
Hi David, I was just checking... in the Brewfather recipe there is 3.29kg of Grain in the Mash and 16.62 litres of water in the Mash... is this because the Brewfather Software is calculating assuming the 1.21 kg's of Raspberries are in the mash... and maybe a more suitable mash water volume is 12.14 litres or so?
I brewed as is and it worked out just fine 🍻🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Great... thanks a million David!
🍻🍻🍻
🍻🍻🍻
Why or how does the fruit give an off flavor if you dont dump some trub?
If you do not trub the dump or move into a secondary fermenter then the fruit flavour will be dulled and there will be an unclean taste to the beer.
Hey David, just wondering what sort of water profile you typically aim for when making your fruited sours?
Hey, a balanced profile is ideal. 🍻
The reason for the 2 day cold crash is to avoid getting the solids in the keg yeah? Can this be skipped? I don’t have a means of cold crashing unfortunately :(
Cold crashing is all about clarity. Its not needed.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thank you! I posted another question. Hopefully you were able to see it as well. :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew actually I posted it under the FB group yesterday about this brew. My first name is Stephen if you need help finding it.
Ok I will look out for it.
You've inspired me to have a crack at this on my new B80 with the glut of plums we currently have. What mash/wort pH would you recommend hitting before pitching the philly? Thanks for the fantastic resource!
Great to hear. Lallemand suggest keeping the ph at regular levels that suit your grain bill for mashing., no adjustment is needed before yeast pitching.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks David. I managed to find the link to the Web seminar which was very helpful. Currently fermenting so looking forward to seeing how it goes as I normally don't stray too far from IPAs and the occasional stout.
Third brew on the B80 and, after initial valve discombobulation, it is going well. Problem is, I am slowly having to accrue all the accessories. I'm sure I'll end up with a 12 valve system...
Great, yes I think its nice to experiment with new styles and methods :)
Awesome Dave video.
On this particular yeast, some doubts:
1) Does it act like an Ale yeast? if so can it be top cropped?
2) Is it possible to make a growth with a starter like the rest of sacharomices?
TY
Thank you :) 1 & 2 Yes it is, though the formulation for souring is quite special, so you may find it works differently if harvested in either way. It is more specialist.
David Heath Homebrew Thanks for the response, I supposed but not sure 🙂
Hello.
Thank you for great videos.🍻😊
I think I'll try this recipe next. I Have only plastic fermenters. So is it best way that I do the primary fermentation to the end and then move beer to another fermenter. And after that add the rasberrys...? How long you think need that secondary fermentation that there is enough flavours of rasberry? Thank younvery much...
Thank you :) Yes, when followed to the recipe this beer is having a very nice amount of raspberry flavour. This fermentation was finished within 8 days, yours will be similar but perhaps not exact. Philly sour yeast is fast to deal with the sugars from fruit. You should expect approx 2-3 days. There is no problem with plastic when souring in this way. Cleaning is no different to any other type of brew.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew yes, thanks. I'll still newbie brewer so I haven't ever move wort to another fermenter still there is fermentation going on. I just wonder oxidation ?
I would suggest using an auto syphon that is made for home brewing. As long as its clean and sanitary then you should not have any issues.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Yes👍 Thanks a lot👍👍👍👍🔥🔥🔥🍻🍻🍻🍻 Let's try IT 😊🍻
Great :)
Hi David, Again great video! As a microbiologist I'm really excited about trying this yeast in my new brew. I have a question. Is their a reason for adding the fruit after a few days of fermentation and not directly at the beginning? I'm used to the latter.
Thank you. By adding the fruit late you will find this gives a much cleaner and more pronounced flavour to the end beer. Fruit beers are one of the few examples of beer styles these days that call for a secondary.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks David!
@@v.hamers4652 Also note though that there are subtle flavor profiles that differ as a function of fermenting wort comprised of a full malt grist (red apple) versus fermenting wort with malt plus glucose (in this case this could be an earlier fruit addition; stonefruit/peach flavors). In the Dr. Farber's webinar that David linked, see slide at (ua-cam.com/video/g5OTdRKnNvo/v-deo.html). We're going to give David's recipe a go today with an early raspberry addition (for glucose) and then his prescribed late addition for flavor/aroma.
Hello. I loved this video and I am currently brewing this as my first (intentional) sour. I have a question about adding the raspberries. In the video the fruit is kept pretty much intact going into the fermenter and then gently crushed. I was going to try to do an airless transfer to secondary. Is there any reason why I would not employ a suitably Star San-ed tattie masher to work the berries before putting them into the fermenter? That would circumvent the need to open the fermenter to squish the raspberries. Or am I being a bit too finicky about air contact?
Thanks John. There are various ways to do this with fruit (see my various other beer recipes with fruit). The concern is with clogging when you create to many small pieces that can get stuck. So you could crush it more if you use a bag. Creating oxygen is a large concern but as long as you do not splash then all will go well. Nothing wrong with enclosed transfer but even that can cause oxygen if run too fast. Best to use a spunding valve on the target vessel to slow the flow at the start at least.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thankyou David. I shall be using a bag but that is a very good point and I should temper any working of the fruit according to the mesh of my bag. I shall transfer slowly.
Great :)
Hei David, Would you go the same way for a Lambic style with cherries like a Kriek for instance or would you go for some modifications? Best
Hi :) You certainly could but in all honesty it would need some lambic Brett yeast to taste authentic.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew thanks David
Cheers 🍺
Hi David, do you know if there is a high chance of contamination with equipment after using this yeast? I'm worried that I might infect future beers from not cleaning the kegs or tubing.
Would a good soak in warm PBW be enough? Thanks and great video
Thanks Sean. There is zero chance of contamination from the yeast because it is not a bacteria. It is a yeast that produces lactic acid. Regular cleaning will work , no problem :)
@@DavidHeathHomebrew that's excellent, cheers man :)
:)
Hi, Im entering this recipe into the Grainfather software and having trouble balancing the grain bill. When I add fruit to a beer in secondary I dont ever take that into account under the fermentables. What would the % look like when you back out the raspberry from the fermentables? Thanks so much!
Hi Erik, I am unsure why you would not want to include the fruit when its a key part of the recipe? but the easy way is to just add the grain as per the weights given. As a recipe writer I have to include the fruit otherwise the balance calculations will be wrong.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thanks so much for your reply...Im a big fan of your channel. Have learned alot! In the Grainfather app the additions like fruit are always just in a different section and dont effect the % ratio of fermentables. B/c the fruit in your recipe accounts for 26.9% of fermentables my ratios are way off without them.. Sorry for the ???
@@eriklegenhausen4558 great to hear. Yes, it is kind of odd that they did that.
Hey David, I am a newbie and this will be my first sour and I plan on following your recipe to the letter. But I do have one question. I had a raspberry sour a couple of weeks ago that had a slightly sweet finish to it and when I read the can it said that it had lactose (milk sugar) in it. I really liked it and was curious if it could be added to your recipe? Thank you
Hi, You will find that this does have a similar slightly sweet end to it already :) No need for anything more.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew Thank you sir!
Cheers :)
David, Thanks for this and all your other informative videos. If you are adding fermentable sugars (from the raspberries) after you took your OG reading, how to you know the ABV in the final product?
Hi Michael, you can add the fruit into your recipe within software. This will show you the total ABV estimated. You can also take a note of the gravity before and after adding the fruit and do the math 🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew David, I'm making this now and see that Brewfather has a new feature to help with this question above about ABV calc. I now see "Total Gravity" in addition to Original Gravity. I believe that this takes into account my adding 2 packs ( 2.7L) of blueberry puree during secondary. I entered the puree under "use" as secondary.
Also: is that too much puree for this?
Will be brewing this soon, just wondering what temperature the yeast is pitched at? Is it dropped to 19° then allowed to rise or just pitch at 24°?
I suggest starting low and then towards the end rising the temps at 1C per day.
Is it possible to harvest the sour yeast for repitch for this type of yeast David?
Yes it is, though the formulation for souring is quite special, so you may find it works differently if harvested. It is more specialist. I have not tried it yet.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I think the issue with reharvesting is two-fold. First, there is a bell-shaped curve that defines souring potential. Pitch too little and you get reduced souring potential. Pitch too much and you also get reduced souring potential. Pitch just right, and you're in the sweet spot (think Goldilocks and the three bears). See the slide at 2:50 of David's video here. If you harvest the yeast, unless you have lab equipment to know how many yeast cells you will be pitching in the next batch, you run the risk of pitching too little or too much, and both influence souring potential. Second, this is a wild yeast strain that is a slow starter, and so the webinar commented that after 6 generations of harvesting in their lab, the yeast became contaminated by other, faster working brewers yeasts.
Hello David this is Vernon I have some of the kveik Voss dry yeast I was wondering what pH would I use this used for making meads
Thank you very much Vernon
Hi Vernon, I am using voss kveik for sour beers without any issues at 3.1. It is very ph tolerant :)
David Heath Homebrew Thank you very much I am going to give it a try I ordered my dry yeast from more beer.com
I'm making a 22-liter one today but after the 11 grams Graveyard yeast is done, I'll be adding a California dry yeast to drop the FG further.
3.5 kg Pilsen malt
1 kg Wheat Blanc
1oz Wai-Iti
11 g GY7b
11.5 g Safale US-05
Do you suppose adding Amoreti grapefruit will conflict with the yeast flavors?
Great, no this sounds like a good plan to me
EXCELLENT!!!
Thanks for your vote of confidence.
:)
Great videos mate. I got 4 x 11g packs of the Philly Sour, could you help me out with storage and rehydration tips? I usually pitch, just like you did in the video, sprinkle the dry yeast on top. I have found some info that says, this yeast should be stored below 4°C (39°F). How did you store yours? If I throw this in the fridge, would I need to rehydrate before use? Many thanks and cheers from Hungary (=
Thank you. Personally I store mine in a fridge that is around 5C. I never rehydrate yeast in water, I always simply pitch it into wort.
@@DavidHeathHomebrew awesome, thank you
:)
Hi David. Thanks for the video. I have some redcurrants I'd like to use in this beer. Do you have any suggestions weight-wise for 19 litres?
Hi Mark, sorry for the late reply. I would go with a similar amount as shown in this recipe.
Thanks David
🍺👍🍺
Hi David, what water profile did you use for this Philly sour?
There is endless debate about water profiles for sour beer. Ive tried all sorts and found this was pretty good:-
Water Profile: Ca 4 | Mg 1 | Na 10 | SO4 6 | Cl 2
Using a Fermzilla.
Any issue with adding raspberries to the collection container (pressurised) and adding raspberries via the bottom (whilst obtaining the trub and then sealing off)?
Sorry if this question was asked and also not having the likely lingo down.
Thanks in advance!
That will be fine 🍻
@@DavidHeathHomebrew I tasted at the halfway (raspberry adding) point and it was notably sour.
At the end it’s got a great raspberry flavor but seems to have lost its sour :(
Any ideas?
Hmm thats odd. Check the PH?
@@DavidHeathHomebrew don’t have a ph tester but will get
🍻🍻🍻
Great vid. Where did you find the 11g sachet? I can only find the 250g size.
I got mine directly from Lallemand. The 11g sachets are appearing worldwide gradually but are selling pretty fast. Best to talk with your local home brew store.