There is a stretch goal book for Cults of the Blood Goods on its way, that is supposed to have some infernalists in it. It might be possible that Baali at least get mentioned.
You are right. You can play them just as they ever were. You have just the opportunity to choose to have a normal looking Samedi that can be a rotting corps if he or she wants to instead of being a corps all the time.
I’m surprised more people don’t see that as a bit of a cop out. “We made these drastic, homogeneous changes to bloodlines, but you can play them the old way if you want.” Thanks. So why did I pay you for a book then?
@@TwoDTen Yea, it feels odd, but it is kind of the core problems the genre RPG has in general and you, as a costumer has to decide if that is a buck or a feature to you. The thing is, if you change nothing, you stagnate, and people will ask why they should buy new books? If you change something, at least half of the players will say “I don’t like that!” and you lose them right away. The way many authors and companies tackle that is by saying: “We have changed that, but if it is not what you like, you can do it the old way instead”. Some people think, that is inconsistent and a flaw, but working in the industry myself, I can tell you, it is something, you just cannot avoid, and you just have to decide how you deal with it, knowing that there is no way to make everyone happy. So, what you are pay for is ultimately for inspiration. STs will always change what they don’t like and highlight what they like, even if it is a minor thing. All a RPG-Publisher can hope for is, that enough people are more inspired by more stuff in a given game then they are rejected by. Personally I would hate both, if a RPG-Publisher with a metaplot wouldn’t throw changes and events at me, because then I would chose a game without a plot (like Requiem, which I also like, but it is a totally different approach), as well as if they make the changes unavoidable and would just say: “So, this character option is not longer available to you!” I mean, being the ST I can change it anyway, but I like if the developers build an explanation in to keep thing as they are, because otherwise my table becomes a more and more isolated parallel universe with any decision that contradicts the mainstream. I am thankful for having the option to say, “Samedis in this domain prefer to stay in their corps stage” or “Tremere Antitribu are still a thing in this city” (do you remember when they just killed them all? they even put a sidebar in the book to explayn, that an indivirual character might have survived and can be still playes, but that the bloodline will not longer be supported in any way. Wasn`t that kind of the same but even worse and more on the nose?) or “Gangrel and Brujah are still a vital part of the Camarilla in this city”. It is probably better then being forced to either tell my players “Your concept does not exist anymore, you are dead or you have to change x, y and z. Or to ignore further events based on changes my table haven’t made entirely. P.S.: I am also pretty sure you pay for a book for more reasons than to just know what happened or might happened to one single bloodline anyway, I bet!
@@theOriginalS.P. No doubt. All of what you say is correct. Honestly, story changes don't bother me - I don't actually mind any change to meta when an in-game story reason is given. Plus, I think the Hecata formation is actually a pretty interesting story. I was mostly being silly about the changes to the Samedi. My issue is more when things are changed and NO story reasons are given. To a large degree, I do buy new World of Darkness books to see what changes have happened to the metaplot, and how these changes have impacted new rules. The World of Darkness selling point for me is the living, changing, world. So, when this default statement, "you CAN do *insert adaptation* if you want," is added in - I do find it a bit insulting - especially when it becomes the default response. I KNOW I can make changes - that's something I don't need permission to do at my own table. But everything you've said - totally agree with. Sometimes, we are just yelling at kids to get off our lawns.
@@TwoDTen LoL. I understand exactly what you are talking about. And I think yes, sometimes it would help if the developers where just a little bit mor confident about changes they make. I think it was partially V5s troublesome start that made things like that a bit weird. If it all has happened a little bit more smoothly, we, the players, would have an easier time to buy the new status, because we would have more fun to speculate what the plan behind that is and how it will went in the future. But the current, cautious approach makes it sometimes to obvios that there actually is no master plan, at least currently. I have high hopes for Justin Achilli bringing not only his ability as a writer but also a vision with him in to the WoD-Team.
@@theOriginalS.P. The Anda. Didn't want to put two Gangrel bloodlines on my top 5 but if I had to remove the Serpents of Light then the Anda would be my pick.
@@smuggrog9821 makes sense, solid pick! I like them too, they are just not on my list because they are a little to straight forward imo. Mongol Gangrel and that is exactly what they are, not more, and certainly not less.
5: V5 Samedi - I never liked the Samedi to much, not because the concept isn’t cool, but to me, they were a little bit too much on the nose and they were kind of just Nosferatu who aren’t Nosferatu but totally are everything Nosferatu are… Since V5 I love them to be the creepy new aunts and uncles who entered the Adams Fam… I mean the Giovanny Family when the family reunion made them the Hecata. And since they are still able to have their rotting and stuff, I don’t feel that V5 took something away. 4: Baali: Perfect, mysterious Antagonists who might or might not be totally what everyone thinks. 3: Lhiannan: I think they are the most overlooked Bloodline since everyone thinks they are just weird Gangrel without Protean. But I think there is more to them. My Headcanon is, they are not the children of either of the 13 Antediluvian and possibly even not of one of the known three second generation Members… 2: Guruhi: They are obviously Nosferatu, but in a different context they are suddenly not sewer rata anymore but Kings and Queens in their own right and sometimes even unearthly beautiful. 1: Gargoyles: If one Bloodline has something like an “character arc” it is these! From former slaves to a hidden force of free monsters, who once might find the confidence to claim a seat at the table. I actually speculated if they might get clan Status after the Ravnos went nearly extinct while the Gargoyles grew extremely in number in the last decades. I hope V5 will reintroduce them soon.
Nice picks. I'd have to give shout-outs to: Gargoyles, Niktuku, Kiasyd, Nagaraja, and the Children of Osiris. Honestly, I never realized there were SO many bloodlines in V:TM. Keep up the good work.
I will admit that the Samedi grew on me. I didn't think that much about them at first, but the Lore of the Bloodlines book got me to like them more. LotB also got me into the Kiasyd as well (then again, I like Fairies and Fae-related stuff).
also looking forward to more updates on Bloodlines. i personally could imagine the re-introduction of the Baali in 'forbidden religions', alas i know the chance is slim.
Regarding the Baali, which are my favorite too, id like to remind you the "contradictions" are solved by introducing factions withins the clan that have those different goals and mindsets. Most notabli the Nergali, the Molochim and the swarm, in addition you have Azaneali, order of the inner light....children of enigma, celestials.... If you want detailed info go to my youtube channel, i did a multi video series in the Baali or to the onyxpath forums and search for ultimate Baali summary
I play VTES instead of VTM and the bloodlines in that game are also unique and have added more diversity to the game. My favorite is the Salubri Antitribu. Give them weapons like Blade of Balona and then take actions to enter into combat with your opponents’ minions is very fun.
I like the V5 companion a lot. But I really wish they had given the Salubri a new discipline involving the soul, implicating them as the soul suckers the Tremere claimed. But also being the same side of the coin that would bring in the Baali. Perhaps confirming that they were created as a Salubri bloodline and leaving a convenient way to introduce the Baali later with some new lore to fit V5. But for me my favorite is the Kiasyd I think!
It been awhile since I read any of the books about the poor unicorns but if I remember correctly the fifth level of their discipline allow them to pull a person soul into their third eye to heal mental derangements or improve one’s road/path and I Believe v20 dark ages Version of this power allows the vampire to command the soulless body of the person they used the power on, so the developers could bring back this ability if they want to present the bloodline in a negative light.
Baali dont seem to be coming for v5 , given sabbath guide didnt mention them and blood cults didnt either. Only wqay left is if they are so big they get their own book just for them. That said there is decent house rules for them in circulation including a controversial pdf that looks like an official thing but is really just v20 rules for baali that were not transformed into v5 properly
Am I to assume that the Professor's favorite Bloodline is the Kiasyd? I never thought of the City Gangrel as a Bloodline, but after this video it makes sense now 😊
Some nice choices. Mine would be: 5. Assamite Sorcerer - yes I know, in V5 there is only Blood Magic. But the assamites were a whole clan with one unique discipline. And the sorcerers beside of this had there own magic. And one of the many examples why the idea the Tremere are the only blood magic users in the world of vampires is totally wrong 4. Baali - Angelis Aeter - and here we come. You were embraced? Worst someone could do is to slaughter you? Diablerie? Well, sounds evil. But making you a more horrible monster after you became one, this is frightening 3. Samedi - the rotting Zombie is somewhat cool. And they are creepy 2. Malkavian Antitribu - while the most Malkavians are dabbling with dominate those little creeps are even more horrible in their mindgames. The weakness is nearly the same as the main clan but they can't resist. 1. Kyasid depending on the edition, really creepy pseudo-elf vampires. Mixery of beauty and horror with a connection to the fae, who are strange by themself
@@OrkarIsberEstar Even if you dont want call them Baali, they are not Lasombra anymore. They are a bloodline. Like the Samedi aren't Cappadocians anymore or the Kyasid are not Lasombra. Actually in the Baali book they are more refered as "Baali of the Azaneali strain" and "Azaneali Baali". We could argue because of the different discription in Libellus Sanguinus and the Baali CB, but the V20 finally merged them together.
@@eiskalteshandchen9036 good point to raise. That said the Angelis Ater never got daimonion as discipline. Azaneali meanwhile kept daimonion and exchanged obfuscate for obtenebrtion (though id aruge that loosing presence would hve made much more sense) Also lorwise, the angelis ater that were in chorazon and helped azaneal become what he is and thus founding the azaneali....all died. Like azaneal was literally the only survivor and he was a baali It may well be that the Angelis ater became apostates and joined the baali for good, but afaik they never got the daimonion clan discipline which is weird either way
Dishonorable mentions (these weren't on the list and don't belong there): Trujah, Kiyasid, Corsairs; Honorable mentions (these probably aren't that far down on the list after the top 5): Warrior Salubri, Crusader Ventrue, Serpents of the Light.
I don’t why but for some reason I’ve always liked the idea of virtuous vampires batting demonic entities and their servants the idea is so full of angst yet is still really cool to me.
the Angelis Ater are technicly Lasombra infernalists, not Baali. Though they did kinda end up spawning the Azaneali which are Baali that are all about the abyss and share obtenebration as skill Baali as Player characters CAN BE amazing. Issue is the same as with malkavians. You can play them abysmally bad, and because you can play them horribly....some players will portray them extremely badly. And while some clans can get away with that, Baali, and Malkavians, really need some serious effort to do well
Congrats on 500 Subs
Ohh, thanks! Only 500 more to hit my first goal with this channel!
Fine choices, Nate!
There is a stretch goal book for Cults of the Blood Goods on its way, that is supposed to have some infernalists in it. It might be possible that Baali at least get mentioned.
The City Gangrel are dear to my heart in a big way. I'm a forever ST but I've always wanted to play a City Gangrel.
Just subscribed. i'm surprised you only have 500 subs. glad to find more vtm content to absorb while i work on my chronicle
Me too! Lol
I was fairly certain you could still play samedi as a rotting corpse and it was an available flaw you could take.
You are right. You can play them just as they ever were. You have just the opportunity to choose to have a normal looking Samedi that can be a rotting corps if he or she wants to instead of being a corps all the time.
I’m surprised more people don’t see that as a bit of a cop out. “We made these drastic, homogeneous changes to bloodlines, but you can play them the old way if you want.” Thanks. So why did I pay you for a book then?
@@TwoDTen Yea, it feels odd, but it is kind of the core problems the genre RPG has in general and you, as a costumer has to decide if that is a buck or a feature to you. The thing is, if you change nothing, you stagnate, and people will ask why they should buy new books? If you change something, at least half of the players will say “I don’t like that!” and you lose them right away. The way many authors and companies tackle that is by saying: “We have changed that, but if it is not what you like, you can do it the old way instead”. Some people think, that is inconsistent and a flaw, but working in the industry myself, I can tell you, it is something, you just cannot avoid, and you just have to decide how you deal with it, knowing that there is no way to make everyone happy.
So, what you are pay for is ultimately for inspiration. STs will always change what they don’t like and highlight what they like, even if it is a minor thing. All a RPG-Publisher can hope for is, that enough people are more inspired by more stuff in a given game then they are rejected by.
Personally I would hate both, if a RPG-Publisher with a metaplot wouldn’t throw changes and events at me, because then I would chose a game without a plot (like Requiem, which I also like, but it is a totally different approach), as well as if they make the changes unavoidable and would just say: “So, this character option is not longer available to you!” I mean, being the ST I can change it anyway, but I like if the developers build an explanation in to keep thing as they are, because otherwise my table becomes a more and more isolated parallel universe with any decision that contradicts the mainstream. I am thankful for having the option to say, “Samedis in this domain prefer to stay in their corps stage” or “Tremere Antitribu are still a thing in this city” (do you remember when they just killed them all? they even put a sidebar in the book to explayn, that an indivirual character might have survived and can be still playes, but that the bloodline will not longer be supported in any way. Wasn`t that kind of the same but even worse and more on the nose?) or “Gangrel and Brujah are still a vital part of the Camarilla in this city”. It is probably better then being forced to either tell my players “Your concept does not exist anymore, you are dead or you have to change x, y and z. Or to ignore further events based on changes my table haven’t made entirely.
P.S.: I am also pretty sure you pay for a book for more reasons than to just know what happened or might happened to one single bloodline anyway, I bet!
@@theOriginalS.P. No doubt. All of what you say is correct. Honestly, story changes don't bother me - I don't actually mind any change to meta when an in-game story reason is given. Plus, I think the Hecata formation is actually a pretty interesting story. I was mostly being silly about the changes to the Samedi.
My issue is more when things are changed and NO story reasons are given.
To a large degree, I do buy new World of Darkness books to see what changes have happened to the metaplot, and how these changes have impacted new rules. The World of Darkness selling point for me is the living, changing, world.
So, when this default statement, "you CAN do *insert adaptation* if you want," is added in - I do find it a bit insulting - especially when it becomes the default response. I KNOW I can make changes - that's something I don't need permission to do at my own table.
But everything you've said - totally agree with. Sometimes, we are just yelling at kids to get off our lawns.
@@TwoDTen LoL. I understand exactly what you are talking about. And I think yes, sometimes it would help if the developers where just a little bit mor confident about changes they make.
I think it was partially V5s troublesome start that made things like that a bit weird. If it all has happened a little bit more smoothly, we, the players, would have an easier time to buy the new status, because we would have more fun to speculate what the plan behind that is and how it will went in the future.
But the current, cautious approach makes it sometimes to obvios that there actually is no master plan, at least currently. I have high hopes for Justin Achilli bringing not only his ability as a writer but also a vision with him in to the WoD-Team.
Those are some solid picks man. My top 5 would probably come down to, 5 Gargoyles, 4 City Gangrel, 3 Serpents of the light, 2 Bonsam, and 1 Samedi.
Lets say, the Serpents of light wouldn't be a bloodline but just a setite heresy, what would be your number three then?
@@theOriginalS.P. The Anda. Didn't want to put two Gangrel bloodlines on my top 5 but if I had to remove the Serpents of Light then the Anda would be my pick.
@@smuggrog9821 makes sense, solid pick! I like them too, they are just not on my list because they are a little to straight forward imo. Mongol Gangrel and that is exactly what they are, not more, and certainly not less.
@@theOriginalS.P. Gangrel Mongolian throat singing in the background.
5: V5 Samedi - I never liked the Samedi to much, not because the concept isn’t cool, but to me, they were a little bit too much on the nose and they were kind of just Nosferatu who aren’t Nosferatu but totally are everything Nosferatu are… Since V5 I love them to be the creepy new aunts and uncles who entered the Adams Fam… I mean the Giovanny Family when the family reunion made them the Hecata. And since they are still able to have their rotting and stuff, I don’t feel that V5 took something away.
4: Baali: Perfect, mysterious Antagonists who might or might not be totally what everyone thinks.
3: Lhiannan: I think they are the most overlooked Bloodline since everyone thinks they are just weird Gangrel without Protean. But I think there is more to them. My Headcanon is, they are not the children of either of the 13 Antediluvian and possibly even not of one of the known three second generation Members…
2: Guruhi: They are obviously Nosferatu, but in a different context they are suddenly not sewer rata anymore but Kings and Queens in their own right and sometimes even unearthly beautiful.
1: Gargoyles: If one Bloodline has something like an “character arc” it is these! From former slaves to a hidden force of free monsters, who once might find the confidence to claim a seat at the table. I actually speculated if they might get clan Status after the Ravnos went nearly extinct while the Gargoyles grew extremely in number in the last decades. I hope V5 will reintroduce them soon.
Nice picks. I'd have to give shout-outs to: Gargoyles, Niktuku, Kiasyd, Nagaraja, and the Children of Osiris.
Honestly, I never realized there were SO many bloodlines in V:TM.
Keep up the good work.
I wish I could keep you in my pocket like a VtM pokedex of sorts haha. Loved the video!
lol. Well, with enough time, maybe I'll have a quantity of videos to support that.
I will admit that the Samedi grew on me. I didn't think that much about them at first, but the Lore of the Bloodlines book got me to like them more. LotB also got me into the Kiasyd as well (then again, I like Fairies and Fae-related stuff).
"the cousins", from Breaking Bad, are definitely Blood Brothers.
also looking forward to more updates on Bloodlines. i personally could imagine the re-introduction of the Baali in 'forbidden religions', alas i know the chance is slim.
I dunno, the city gangrel are so numerous, so common now I don't know that they can even be considered a 'bloodline' anymore
Regarding the Baali, which are my favorite too, id like to remind you the "contradictions" are solved by introducing factions withins the clan that have those different goals and mindsets. Most notabli the Nergali, the Molochim and the swarm, in addition you have Azaneali, order of the inner light....children of enigma, celestials....
If you want detailed info go to my youtube channel, i did a multi video series in the Baali or to the onyxpath forums and search for ultimate Baali summary
Details, details… lol
@@TwoDTen haha indeed, i m sorry if i came of weird, im really enjoing your content a ton, not only on WoD but Shadowrun as well =)
I play VTES instead of VTM and the bloodlines in that game are also unique and have added more diversity to the game. My favorite is the Salubri Antitribu. Give them weapons like Blade of Balona and then take actions to enter into combat with your opponents’ minions is very fun.
An unknown one by most, but probably my favorite is the Ananke bloodline of the Malkavian's from TME.
As far as creeps and big-baddies go, I love the Nagaraja.
I like the V5 companion a lot. But I really wish they had given the Salubri a new discipline involving the soul, implicating them as the soul suckers the Tremere claimed. But also being the same side of the coin that would bring in the Baali. Perhaps confirming that they were created as a Salubri bloodline and leaving a convenient way to introduce the Baali later with some new lore to fit V5.
But for me my favorite is the Kiasyd I think!
It been awhile since I read any of the books about the poor unicorns but if I remember correctly the fifth level of their discipline allow them to pull a person soul into their third eye to heal mental derangements or improve one’s road/path and I Believe v20 dark ages Version of this power allows the vampire to command the soulless body of the person they used the power on, so the developers could bring back this ability if they want to present the bloodline in a negative light.
Baali dont seem to be coming for v5 , given sabbath guide didnt mention them and blood cults didnt either. Only wqay left is if they are so big they get their own book just for them.
That said there is decent house rules for them in circulation including a controversial pdf that looks like an official thing but is really just v20 rules for baali that were not transformed into v5 properly
Awesome!
Am I to assume that the Professor's favorite Bloodline is the Kiasyd?
I never thought of the City Gangrel as a Bloodline, but after this video it makes sense now 😊
Some nice choices.
Mine would be:
5. Assamite Sorcerer - yes I know, in V5 there is only Blood Magic. But the assamites were a whole clan with one unique discipline. And the sorcerers beside of this had there own magic. And one of the many examples why the idea the Tremere are the only blood magic users in the world of vampires is totally wrong
4. Baali - Angelis Aeter - and here we come. You were embraced? Worst someone could do is to slaughter you? Diablerie? Well, sounds evil. But making you a more horrible monster after you became one, this is frightening
3. Samedi - the rotting Zombie is somewhat cool. And they are creepy
2. Malkavian Antitribu - while the most Malkavians are dabbling with dominate those little creeps are even more horrible in their mindgames. The weakness is nearly the same as the main clan but they can't resist.
1. Kyasid depending on the edition, really creepy pseudo-elf vampires. Mixery of beauty and horror with a connection to the fae, who are strange by themself
just quick - angelis ater are lasombra infernalists not technicly Baali but alligned with them
@@OrkarIsberEstar Even if you dont want call them Baali, they are not Lasombra anymore. They are a bloodline.
Like the Samedi aren't Cappadocians anymore or the Kyasid are not Lasombra.
Actually in the Baali book they are more refered as "Baali of the Azaneali strain" and "Azaneali Baali".
We could argue because of the different discription in Libellus Sanguinus and the Baali CB, but the V20 finally merged them together.
@@eiskalteshandchen9036 good point to raise. That said the Angelis Ater never got daimonion as discipline. Azaneali meanwhile kept daimonion and exchanged obfuscate for obtenebrtion (though id aruge that loosing presence would hve made much more sense)
Also lorwise, the angelis ater that were in chorazon and helped azaneal become what he is and thus founding the azaneali....all died. Like azaneal was literally the only survivor and he was a baali
It may well be that the Angelis ater became apostates and joined the baali for good, but afaik they never got the daimonion clan discipline which is weird either way
Dishonorable mentions (these weren't on the list and don't belong there): Trujah, Kiyasid, Corsairs;
Honorable mentions (these probably aren't that far down on the list after the top 5): Warrior Salubri, Crusader Ventrue, Serpents of the Light.
I don’t why but for some reason I’ve always liked the idea of virtuous vampires batting demonic entities and their servants the idea is so full of angst yet is still really cool to me.
And then the player coterie removed the slothfull prince to fight the Baali, 2 out of 5 sold their soul for the demon overlord.
Baali all day every day. Shit disc spread, but fun builds, esp Angellis. IMO greatest clan lore.
Love the Baali when done “correctly.” I enjoy the Baali when I never have the slightest idea the player is playing one.
the Angelis Ater are technicly Lasombra infernalists, not Baali. Though they did kinda end up spawning the Azaneali which are Baali that are all about the abyss and share obtenebration as skill
Baali as Player characters CAN BE amazing. Issue is the same as with malkavians. You can play them abysmally bad, and because you can play them horribly....some players will portray them extremely badly. And while some clans can get away with that, Baali, and Malkavians, really need some serious effort to do well
0:38 Unless they are descended from the noble Gangrel clan then they are all over the bloody place 😆.
GIOVANNI.