The Unsecured Army Radio System Anybody Could Hear
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- Опубліковано 2 тра 2022
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I used to work for Pye Telecom in the 70’s. We had a separate section that dealt with military and security orders which was screened off from the main production line. All the standard products were available for just about any frequency in the VHF or UHF bands via interchangeable boards and the actual frequencies would have been informed by the customer or government department ordering the equipment.
The ex- Labgear HF radios were nice. I have had several Compak 8 HF manpacks and SSB-210 HF mobiles!
Does PYE still exist?
@@daveeyboy100 Pye became Philips then Simoco. I am not sure if they still manufacture or if they are just communication consultants
I was 10 years in the Royal signals back in the late 80s - used Clansman with encryption on VHF - that kit was a beast!
Upto 50 watts and full coverage from from 30 Mhz to 75.975 in 25khz chunks. Antennas ranged from a base station inverted "V" for long range and 3m whip on a 9 meter mast with a "pineapple" passive tuner on the top.
I have one of them pineapple antennas. Covers 12M up to 6 for My setup. Large SMA connectors than normal but still a good antenna. Shame that you can't open the pineapple due to some radiation label on the side.
Indeed my friend, indeed. Weird, I just found an old pic of me during my time in service: Gibraltar, Clansman strapped to my back, beaming 😂😂... Happy days 👍🏴
@@GlasgowGallus Might have to buy one and go up the local hill and see if I can make contact with you from IO85ai
@@WHNorthcote 👍😂
I use my PRC320 as often as I can and its still going strong. There is a huge Clansman user group across the uk and the world, great sets and yes, I too carried the beast on a lovely yomping :)
Yet another fascinating, informative and well researched synopsis. If Manchester university ever put on a history of all things radio you have my vote for prof!!
We maintained this system near the end of its life and for its simplicity it was actually an ok system for its day. The nets could be changed by selcall tones if I remember correctly but the big down side was the kit used plug in xtals.
The funny thing was most hams didn’t notice the uhf links for a number of years because they had been located between two channels and even a 50 mile link only ran about 0.5w.
Lowband goes a long way if you can get your land rover in a high spot.
Well you would think that Belli but the hams can’t even detect the stealth pirates that have been using their bands for years. Just because you don’t hear it or see it on your sdr doesn’t mean it’s not there 😂
Very very interesting
A very good overview of the system Lewis, thank you.
During this era whilst tuning across the 70’s band we could be alarmed to hear that a particular location had been attacked by nuclear weapons and that there were countless casualties. Troops were being mobilised to local sites to provide defence.
I do not remember at any time the word ‘exercise’ being used. It was very obvious to us that the callsign ‘Sunray’ was in command of operations.
The system was carrier access and insecure. We recall that the ‘Irish Superfone’ would transmit on one of the input frequencies and the result was a wide area transmitter of expletive language.
We understand that the data pulsing all day long was information on site security and environmental conditions etc.
If it became real they would have said, "no play" and at the end they would of said, "end x, end ex". There is no need to say if it is an exercise because everyone who was getting the RT to act upon would of known.
I do remember a time when a blip of a transmitter on a "half channel" on 70cms would bring up a low band transmitter. It was years later when I would actually see the gear. Incidentally some mobiles used Cleartone equipment too.
At one time my local repeater group operated a 70cms repeater to the north west of Bedford on RB15, the highest RB channel number, and had done for years. There was a need to change its site so we requested this and were surprised to be told that we needed to move frequency as well because due to some sort of cock-up in the RSGB/DTI/MoD chain the original frequency had been granted by mistake and clashed with local bits of MOULD. Of course, no one on 70cms or in the military had noticed any problems but there it was, the repeater had to change frequencty which in the days of crystal frequency control involved hassle and realignment. Happy days, all in the past.
The Philips FM914 transceiver was built by Philips Australia but modified in the UK. The front end filter was too narrow to cover the full band at 70 MHz so the filter was modified using a pair of front end filters from the Pye PF85/PFX handhelds... The FM900 series transceivers were nice and available in dash mount, boot mount, motorcycle versions and in A, B, E, T, W, & U bands... I have around 70 'new old stock' transceivers unused in boxes in my workshop😁
I recognised the FM900 chassis straight away... With a military plug on the front.
Philips also sold a SYSTEM 4 mobile phone version of the FM91, it was a very versatile radio. I have worked on every variant of the FM900 series and the only criticism I would have of them is that they are large and heavy... The Duplex versions have a bolt on PA stage extension that extends the radio body by 30%, making a heavy radio heavier!
The radio is programmed with an external EPROM programmer after wiping the EPROM with a UV lamp. The programmer application could only generate and write the code, you could not read a preprogrammed EPROM which was a pain in the arse!
You have prompted me to play with one again😁 the large clip on MOULD Selcal encode/decode module displays were scarce at one time, I have several that I may dig out and play with one day!
@@victuff9765 that was a very interesting read! I have a few remote head units and a local head CB UHF sitting here. I’ve owned them for a while but never got them working reliably, the EPROM programming is painful at best!
@Charlie Munns Hi Charlie, Yes, there was a dedicated EPROM programmer that used an IDC card slot in a PC to program the EPROM interestingly the software could write to the EPROM and clone them but it could not read and decode an already programmed EPROM! A mate and I used the software to generate the files but used a SUNSHINE ELECTRONICS Universal programmer to write the EPROMS.... I just have to find someone who wants 70 plus various models of FM900 transceivers 'new in the boxes' that I have in my shed😉
this sounds a bit like some emergency systems installed in the USA in the late 1950s, and it was still in use for emergency services (fire, civil defense, etc) well into the 1980s. As I recall, it was federal money seeding the build, especially in more rural areas that had no communications due to lack of local funding. Most systems operated in the 30 - 50 Mh range so transmitter locations were mostly on higher ground but limited to 100 watts to hold down interference with neighboring areas. Most towns got maybe one or two frequencies to work with, which included a common county-wide hailing channel. It worked well, but in times of natural disaster (local storms) there could be too much on-air traffic to keep things straight between neighboring towns. The other problem with low band was the reassigning of frequencies every 50 miles or so. Under certain atmospheric conditions (read: skip) the radio signals could reach out for several hundred miles. I did many installs back in the day and I was a stickler for a good signal. From a hilltop many of my radios could go well over 100 miles, even in poor conditions. Such were the common issues of low band communications with limited channels available. Low tech at its best!
Ur videos are to the point, very thorough and very informative. For that reason I'm in!
I find it amusing that they chose to call the system MOULD.
Something usually related to cold, damp and depressing.
Not something futuristic or military sounding.
Amazing drone shots Lewis! Another great video!
If you don't recognize the similarities between MOULD, cold damp and depressing and service life I guess you never served.
@@joeds3775 That would be correct Jo!
Then those who named the system knew how to name it appropriately!
Mould brings to mind a Welsh village near Moel-y-Parc.
But, Pye WAS a military radio manufacturer. During WW2, it was the UK's largest military radio maker having designed and supplied units like the WS18, WS19 and WS22 radios and part of the very cutting edge WS10 - a UHF, multiplexed, pulse modulation system that was really a world first. Pye continued post-war making PMR, aviation and - for the global defence market - tactical military radios including substantial base stations. I have a sort of 'Janes Military Radio' catalogue which includes Pye sets, FM, AM and SSB, aimed at the world's armies. But, by the early 70s, IIRC, Pye had been bought out by Philips which might explain why it was no longer favoured as a home grown British supplier of military radio kit.
The innovative part of the #10 set the time division modulator and de-modulator was made by The Telephone Manufacturing Company that was not part of PYE at the time it was only taken over well after WW2/
Pye continued supplying comms kit for police and other emergency services for some time I believe. I recall seeing a "vintage" police Pye handheld, that had a really neat slot in cradle for vehicle mounting to use external mic/speaker and charge the battery, similar to early car kits for mobile phones. A neat (but bulky) setup, even the basic handheld was enormous by todays standards, a bit bigger than the Motorolas usually used by foot patrols
@@johnmurrell3175 OK noted. But the WS10 was complicated - directional dish antenna, 3GHz carrier, multichannel audio etc. AFAIK, it was a multideveloper effort which included Marconi - which had a hand in pretty much all British WW2 manufacturing. Same for Ferranti and STC. I got my info on the WS10 from back issues of Wireless World.
@@alastairbarkley6572 I have seen it described as integrated by ACC ltd that I an guessing is A C Cosser but also by I think GEC / AEI. I am not sure who developed it but was trialled in a two stage hop from the Horley area to Peterfield and then to London. I wonder if the development was related to the Royal Signal Activity on Reigate Hill ?
I will have a good look at the only 1/2 of a WS10 that exists in the Signals Museum to see if it has any manufactures details on it but it may well have been policy to hide manufacturers and serial numbers in case the equipment was captured by the enemy.
Hi Lewis, another great video, I was involved in mould when I was in the TA in the eighty’s. Went to some sites during that time also repaired the low band T406 during that time . Also at the same time maintaining the high band version whilst working for the Met Police . Regards 73 mark
When are you coming back on the air ?
Are the specification of the system still non public?
I think the reasoning behind 432MHz was that the MOD was and is the primary user of the 70cm band.
Another interesting video Lewis, well done!
Lovely production.
Thank you for the updates and sweet videos
Used to work on the Mould system in the South West, Wales and the Midlands. It actually worked reasonably well as a hill top site network but it was very basic. The Insertion vehicles were a nightmare to engineer in however. They has 2xpegasus talkthrough sets that were ok as stand alone talkthroughs. Problem was the bright sparks thought they would use a simplex set to link into a HTS and rebro on the same sub band via the line cards in the vehicle. Minimal separation between simplex and rebro frequency wise and.....you can imagine the breakthrough....Try explaining that one to the non technical military types....
Very interesting! Thanks, at the time we had our police at 79Mhz here in Sweden, Levi
A real piece of radio history well done Lewis
Very nice radio. Love military equipment. Good video.👍
Thanks for another great video about radio technology that we here in the U.S. know very little about.
THANK YOU, NICE WORK..
I remember the Pye brand. I forgot about them till your video. Very interesting video. You should make documentaries. :)
Hi mate. We had a PYE tv in the 70s
In the late 60s-early 70s the police system used around 100MHz for base to mobile. It could be picked up fairly reliably on an ordinary tranny. I was idly listening late one night when a report was broadcast of a naked man running down the middle of Victoria Avenue! I couldn't hear the car to base bit as that was on 80MHz ish, but from the increasingly hysterical note in the female operator's replies, she was obviously receiving a graphic description of events. Most enjoyable!
Yes they did in the day when it was DTels and before. Some point in the 80's - cant recall now - Police and Ambos went up and fire went down in frequency. Scotland used FM and England used AM quasisync. Quasisync is a bloody nuisance to optimise.
Outstanding mate superb video very interesting and informative.
There's a Pye MOULD radio on Ebay at the moment
Looks pretty cool! I'll have to look for on-line sales of units.
WoW, that hit a lot of ticks. I was a R Sigs soldier in the late 80's in one of the Mould Troops within my Regt, which was part of 2 Sig Bde. 2 Sig Bde was set up for Home defense Comms and Mould was to be used (as some other radio systems) as part of Civil Defense for Pre & Post Nuclear strike and the reestablishment of government. The land rover Mobile stations was capable of switching off the hill top sites and replacing them or even adding capacity as another site. As operators we were fully aware that the system was broadcast in clear, therefore we would use BATCO to encrypt messages if required. Yes we also had female operators which you alluded to in your vid. By late 90's HDRS replaced the post strike comms aspect and between Cougar and Tetra superseded Mould. Both Cougar and Tetra was fully encrypted but Tetra had an advantage of being in use by the emergency services. Effectively the death of Mould happened because other systems was more suited/better at providing more secure comms to the role than Mould itself, so certainly was in decline by late 90's and hardly used by early 2000's.
These videos have certainly come along way from reviewing chinese HTs and net radios to this level of depth. If this was a show on History channel I would watch it.
Nice one Lewis 👍👍
I used to hear MOULD on 70cms in the 80s. There was a system co-sited with GB3DY but it didn’t cause any interference.
We used to have clansman personal squad sets for airsoft but were advised not to use them as they were still tuned in to 30cm and the cadets or TA over here (NI) were still using said frequency.
very informative!
5:07 There’s some big names on that freq list: The Mir Space Station, the RAF Mildenhall Command Post, national “Nuclear Security”, the MacLaren Formula 1 team and… Rimington Minicabs
Most of that list was from the old proma scanner group ran by paul way. He helped me so much in the world of scanning.
The listing for Rimington Minicabs probably refers to the Security Service MI5. Stella Rimington was Director General of MI5 from 1992 to 1996 and a UK minicab firm was unlikely to be using that frequency. I assume that the authors of the UK frequency guide wanted to avoid a visit from the authorities. - John G4JEN
John would you mind dropping me an email? RingwayManchester@mail.com
Well I knew nothing about this of course I live in the United States so why would I. But this is extremely interesting stuff. I learn every day from RingWay, Manchester.
Thank you Lewis
I was on a ship as a cadet a few years ago when the Tactical Comms kit failed (RFA)...we could transmit but not receive. The Captain sent me down to his cabin to grab his little Baofeng-type radio.
We encoded the content rather than the signal. Anyone could listen in, but all they'd hear was a bunch of seemingly random letters and numbers.
Saved the day! (Or more accurately it meant we didn't have to repeat the exercise with the warships in company).
Batco for the win!
1 What's the best radio use commercial or military radio station (base).2 Next base station range types( military base station & commercial base station ) 3 vhf frequency use video calling possible or not ?
Frankly anyone could hear us (military) anyway given the right kit. That's why we spent so much time trying to confuse the enemy by various means. I started on Larkspur and finished on late model klansman. There was a real art to oprating the Larkspur set.
That's rather crazy. I bet the stuff is great to convert for amateur use.
73 M7TUD
Some stout radios! Sure wouldn't enjoy lugging one of those beasts around. I assume that field radios were more like the Clansman type and operated on HF NVIS? I'm a American Ham , I really enjoy radio of all types. By the way, I remember seeing a video on Winter Hill , doesn't it have a infamous background? Some creepy things happen there? And thanks for the cool video! Cheers from S.W. Pennsylvania. ..
Would be nice a video regarding Racal uk hf receiver factory or Plessey, both now closed....
State of the art in a recent ongoing conflict seems to be the Baofeng UV5R according to most videos. Cheap as chips !
Great video as usual. I noticed some sort of tube type aerial at timecode 3:57 can you tell me what this is used for please? (I'm not a radio ham, just Joe public but fascinated by technology) Thanks
That’s a police folded dipole array
4 stacked dipoles, 6db gain over a dipole and omnidirectional
I guess when it was new Louis, mold kind of grew on everybody. But after a while it met its demise.
Looks like a case of Mould LoL cheers for video
Hi Lewis, I have really enjoyed the content you have shared recently….great information and so interesting. Was the one about antenna being made to look like trees an April 1st jest…..or true? If true, it just makes you think where we were going to accept technology…..PS rubbish looking trees! hahaha
No, they were real.
In thee army we used something called SCRAT I can't remember what it stands for. We sent and landrover with SCRAT into a location and the main Comms will be placed afterwards
Everybody need one for their armoured SUV.
So MOULD is now gathering... MOULD.
Thanks for the interesting story. But in my opinion it would be more pleasant if the still images in the video would be more in the topic. Like diagrams, sources or have a caption of what they are showing and why it is important. Otherwise the video becomes a little monotone after two minutes. The first images that i get and find interesting start in the middle of the movie.
There simply isn’t the relevant info out there half the time so you’ll have to make do I’m afraid
Hi Jakub, maybe you could help Lewis to achieve your goal.
Troll the internet and get the pictorial information you require and show it to Lewis then he maybe have a good idea of what to get you for the next video so your not bored out of your skull.
All the very best Ian :-)
@@RingwayManchester I don't know much about radio systems nor I am a native english speaker. I was writing about the lack of any description on the images. The first stills show antennas on a remote location. Is this the system you are talking about? Where was it located? Don't get me wrong. I would like to read more about it because it sparked my curiosity but I don't know even how do you spell the acronym for that system. I found some pages on "Mould Radio System" but they don't show the antenna masts from the beginning and ending of the video. That's why I'm confused.
@@jacianmcgurk7424 Sorry for hurting your feelings with my personal opinion about a video on the internet. Almost forgot how toxic the radio community is.
@@jakubniemczuk Thats ok Jakub, thank you for saying sorry, I will come out of my safe space now.
;-)
Sounds like re vamped London Radiophone
@RingwayManchester >>> Great video...👍
What’s the best handheld scanner for listing to military aircraft please
Uniden 125xlt
But there's still restrictions around London on parts of the 70cm band right?
Why is that?
ua-cam.com/video/cALBvqOBSSA/v-deo.html
Could they not have left the Amateur Radio bands alone and use a transceiver operating at 9000 Mhz using QPSK modulation until a suitable band can be found.
Ringway Manchester Can I BUY A MILITARY SURPLUS RADIO I WATCHED A GUY ON U TUBE HE GOT AN ARPRC 1088 SECURE RADIO WHICH CAN PICKUP F.M. CHANNELLS TOO COULD I BUY USED ARMY KIT ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRIACIATED, THANK YOU...Peter Dublin
👍
Proper Laffin Video Sublick.!! 👌💯👍
Only com I dealt with in the 70s was a prick 25
Should have used a Cryptographic radio system.
Gee I hate when we can't work together and split a 25khz channel. Not very smart. I feel it still would have been useful and the amount of frequencies doubled today. Poor planning
A bit. Moldy 😂
mould a funny name for a broadcast system, even funnier if an armature radio operator was using it (mould-y ham)
Now it’s all ham license this ham license that instead of letting anyone use airwaves you gotta pass an exam etc plus unless you have a really powerful rig and antenna and access to a repeater your only gonna be chatting to thin air
Lol i hacked into them at age 12 local military base fm band just underneath air controil . Then later they came upp with tone generated security for police comms . Needles to say that the stereocoder of the 3mtr fm music pirate i ran did the trick lmfao yeah those were the days happy times :) just waiting for some car going to a domestic where they left the car and were on their handhelds (Time to runn car plates ) lmao
😃👍
In other words somebody had equipment from a failed military contract they needed to make a use for to recoup costs.
Nice video Lewis. UK system is far less complicated than the U.S. milcomms
AMATEUR RADIO COULD BE USED AS NEIGHBOUR HOOD WATCH OR MABY EVEN PET OR BABY WATCH . HOME SECURITY
The Brits were always light years behind he rest of the world. The British army was using valve based Larkspur equipment into the 80s.
Google EMP. And understand valves are immune to it. Early transistorised kit was not.
They were - but only in the TA I think. Most of the Field Army was equipped with Clansman by 82 ish.Larkspur HF, D11' and such like did stay a bit longer in some places purely because they didnt have a replacement capability.
@@doncampbell9606 Precisely. Rhodesia had transistorised HF SSB manpacks in '67.