Cultural crisis and the Intellectual Dark Web, with Douglas Murray
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- In Douglas Murray's recent bestseller, The Strange Death of Europe, he diagnoses a widespread cultural crisis in Europe, a continent that has fundamentally lost faith in itself. He is also part of the new loose grouping of public intellectuals known as the 'Intellectual Dark Web'. This interview with Rebel Wisdom's David Fuller covers his disgnosis of western culture, the aims of the Intellectual Dark Web and his reflections on the recent high profile live events between himself, Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson.
Strange Death of Europe: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Deat...
Rebel Wisdom is a new media platform founded on the conviction that we are seeing an ongoing and growing civilisational crisis, and the old operating systems break down. We can no longer trust the traditional media to make sense of the world. The old gatekeepers are losing their power. A new counter culture is filling the void, driven by a great intellectual awakening. www.rebelwisdom.co.uk
To have early access to the second part of this interview, "I wish I was wrong about The Strange Death of Europe", and to help us make more of these films please consider becoming a Rebel Wisdom Patron: / rebelwisdom
Download an audio version of this interview on iTunes, Spotify or direct from rebelwisdom.podbean.com
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Love Douglas Murray - his calm yet passionate & thoughtful / reasoned reflection mixed with his witty humor (not so much in this one) is what keeps me staying tuned in to him.
Douglas is brilliant. And David is a great interviewer. Thank you both.
I'm so happy that you got Douglas Murray! I love this dude.
Man, I would give anything to sit down for a coffee with Douglas Murray
I'll accept payment of half of what you were willing to give to Murray and you can have coffee with me instead.
Lol, sounds like a bargain mate
@@pleasestandby5954 I never charge more than it costs to keep the lights on. How does tomorrow 3:30 at smithie loues on havrilleville and Kensington ave sound?
@dimmy dunk ?!?!???!??
I waited in the rain for 14 hours and he never showed up!!!!! Was 50% off not a great deal?????? I'm heart broken by the complete disregard.
Sorry man, I had to wash my hair
I like how Murray mulls over concepts like swirling a fine red wine
This is the kind of measured intelligent discussion that is killing the old media.
Cheers.
I love how Murray bridges the gap between Harris and Peterson.
I adore them all.
I don't often agree with the guests you have on or your positions particularly, but I very much like the way you conduct your interviews - allowing your guests to express themselves in the manner they wish, rather than excessively interrupting or putting a spin on what they have to say. Good show my man.
P.S. Douglas Murray is awesome.
Great man and great interview .
shame that there are not more people like him around.
Please interview Brendan O'Neill
They have to get Brendan going about his communism! He’s my favorite commie.
Agreed. Get Brendan.
Thank you for this excellent interview with Douglas Murray.
I love Douglas. Thanks for platforming him.
I enjoy the devilish grin that Douglas gives us at times. Like at 23:25 where he suggests to David, “the thought must have crossed your mind” (of starting a new religion) 😊
Yes. It has definitely crossed my mind, and I'm sure it's crossed the mind of many followers of JBP or the IDW. Not that I'm saying that JBP is looking for that, but I have felt that idea.
No new religions please! We have 3000+ religions that have failed so can we understand the Dajjal (Process of logic).
As usual, always impressed with Douglas Murray.
Murray is a global treasure.
excellent way to start my morning, thank you.
Your mourning, right?
I could listen to DM all day...
So many great quotes from Douglas that I had to write down so I can ponder on later. Such a great thinker.
LOL
So I saw on the news today, that an 8 year old Swedish girl has pulled a thousand-year-old sword from a lake. Unbelievably her name is Saga. You can't make this stuff up. People are joking that she must be our new Queen. I prefer to interpret this as the hopeful sign that the next generation will recover the Deep mythological substrate of our civilization.
Mary Kochan: I'm surprised it was reported; it's a little too emblematic for some people, I would have thought.
The longer I live the less I'm inclined to believe everything is coincidence!
theeggtimer tic tic yep, in my life it was a synchronicity since I'm teaching King Arthur to my 12 year old grandson right now.
Pity it wasn't a boy pulling a sword out of a British lake.
We could really do with King Arthur coming back.
We know his story, a new one could be told.
The world needs more Douglas Murray’s...
Great interview 👍
Oh hell yes. TGIDMF (Thank Goodness It's Douglas Murray Friday)
First person to design Tohlemiach's slogan in TGIF font with a picture of Douglas Murray's face on it gets a free Rebel Wilson T Shirt
i.postimg.cc/0rRy9dtF/dmf.png
a miscellaneous person lmao well done
@@amiscellaneousperson9711 bravo. Drop us a line on info@rebelwisdom.co.uk with your address 😁
Thank you both. Just sent an email.
Great interview Rebel Wisdom! Keep up the good work!
Great interview, love Douglas Murray, Thanks.
Douglas, I'm a huge fan of yours. You should contribute genetically, intellectually and culturally, and raise your biological children. You would make a fantastic father. Sincerely! Saw you in London with Sam Harris and Dr Jordan Peterson. It was a fantastic evening!
You're a good interviewer. You allow him to say what he wants. For a while he even goes deep into his thoughts.
Respect this man immensely.
Considered becoming a Patreon to get early access to the second half but too poor :( Really interesting way of doing things though, especially the higher tier contributions that make you part of Rebel Wisdom. Very interesting and I think its good, taking patron funded media to the next level. Keep up the good work 👍
this the best interview you ever done...and very deep
I really like this guy. Strange Death of Europe was amazing. I tell everyone I know to give him a listen. Such a voice of reason.
Speak freely Douglas because you are speaking the truth.
Fantastic chat gents, thank-you
Lovely interview.
Enjoyed this conversation greatly
Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦 🍻
“Societal IED” ...a perfect and accurate analogy. Always great to hear Douglas; thoughtful, considered and always right.
Those 36+ minutes flew by; great content - thank you.
JPs hindrance is that he's transrational having to use words. Joseph Campbell said or quoted "The best things can't be told. The second best is talking about the things that can't be told. The rest is gossip". (noise).
Fred Cory that is great.
@@kyleganse4978 And Ditchkins has used language to mercilessly discredit people who can't describe that which is beyond words. It is also why I can only handle Sam Harris for about 10 minutes. Dawkins for about 10 seconds but JP and Murray for 10 hrs.
I love your perfect use of time and humor Fred. I'll try to join you in the joke and agree that I too can stand Richard Dawkins for slightly longer than I can in fact levitate (which I cannot do)...but not as long as I can hold my breathe.
Sam I can tolerate a bit longer...as it seems he can only go about ten minutes before he tries to smuggle in "well being" while never being burdened with sufficiently articulating it, exactly (which JP calls him on, and rightly).
@dimmy dunk 💭
@Kitten Katt Nothing so profound. Ditchkins is a collective noun coined by the erudite English literary critic Terry Eagleton to signify Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and co. into one word. It is clever because they are all kinsmen stuck in an tired, old intellectual ditch of 19th century materialism. Look him up on UA-cam. Well worth it. He's kinda Marxist but a keen intellectual for sure.
Great interview with Douglas Murray!
Douglas Murray has always something new to teach his audience! He's actually an amazing guy!...
You quoted Chesterton! I love you! You gained a sub!
Douglas Murray is the thinking man's Tommy Robinson.
Rather, two edges of the same sword.
Tommy robinsons experience is instructive of the qualitative improvement of the us representative republic instantiated by its constitution and bill of rights over englands parliamentary democracy subjugated by its monarchy and its weaker property rights and concept of presumption of innocence.
They just keep trumping up charges on this poor man. Would never happen here, at least not to that degree and not without recourse.
DM defended TR in May 2013 in the slain soldier case, Lee..
@@keithwilliams8342 The EDL approached Douglas when they were first going public but he turned them down. Probably wisely.
If our universe were an absurd soup of gobbledygook or just a uniform haze of static with no bonding atoms or coalescing stars then you'd have no evidence of a superintelligence. Our universe is intelligible (comprehensible).
"The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible."
paulwillisorg QQ
Douglas Murray is brilliant
Love me a talk with Douglas Murray. He looked hungover though :-D
Michael O'Shea He looked weary.
Excellent interview .
Douglas should talk to Ben Shapiro. Between the 2 of them, they speak at average speed.
Ben Shapiro should be sentenced to courses in elocution and anger management.
LMAO
@Daniel Newton this comment makes no sense, no one is attacking anyone.
@Daniel Newton nope, not in this comment section
That was quite amusing.
great show, love Douglas
Thank you for this vid!
It would be more appropriate to call this group of people Intellectual Light Web because they shine a light in the darkness that is around us.
31:16 "Not being caught anyway" lololol I love your humor man, smart and dark at times, and you deliver it with a straight face...oh man thanks for the laugh
lolololol that second of silence where you nod at him, you are thinking "shall I say it? lololol really good
Thanks a lot
I so relate to the disagreement on basic facts. It used to be you could agree that racism is wrong. But now you have people claiming that racism is “power plus privilege” thus rationalizing and excusing racist behaviour. And when called out they deny they are racists because it does not fit their newly invented criteria.
A few years ago I would have labelled myself as an atheist. I'm probably a fairly classic libertarian and definitely don't brook any patience with the post modernism movement.
Several yrs ago I discovered JBP and my journey to rediscovering a deeper meaning and link with spirituality began.
The comment by Murray that "people will just invent religion", and that he thinks "people have nothing to hold onto" struck me like a train.
Describes very succinctly what I think is happening with the modern world, after the death of God in the western mind.
Grasping for meaning, and finding some very poor things to use as a framework for deeper meaning.
I love this man!
The entire minute before 12.20 ...The sarcasm level increases exponentially... very funny!
I am a huge admirer of Douglas’s thoughtful world view and I agree with all of it. However in this interview he seems forlorn, if not to say depressed, in that there seems to be no sense of world consensus over where we are going or even where we should head. In his great book dedicates a whole chapter on the idea that Europe is going through a huge malaise as to its identity, I agree with him on that. This European depressed state is contagious and perhaps because of it Douglas may be infected himself, I hope I am wrong.
Important thinker
WOW what a good advert 1st.
Jordan Peterson gives clarity on his God position in his interview with Dr Oz.....he's an agnostic and believes acting as God exists is of greater benefit than acting if God doesnt exist.
Pretty Vacant which makes absolutely no sense- we have only had one side of the story to account for.
why does it make no sense
Act like both God and Satan exist.
Coz even if you don't. ...others do!
Grant video, great content, only complaint is you could do with some more soft furnishings to dampen the sound. Curtains and rugs work wonders. Like if you agree.
@dimmy dunk I'm Batman...
where is the uncut unedited version ?
I could never tire of listening to Mr. Murray. I suspect we would disagree on many things (I've never heard him express a view on redistributive justice for instance), but he is quite possibly the most eloquent, thoughtful and brave British public intellectual; who is prepared to face uncomfortable, but critical, truths head on. We need to work out how to 'farm' Douglas Murrays...
I always smile when people put 'public' before 'intellectual'.
Everything he s saying is really fascinating, but for some reason this interview be putting me to sleeeeeeeep.
I appreciate that this is a given but, podcasts such as these remind me why such nuanced discussions like these can never occur on MSM TV.
The reason no one can agree on facts is because the old gatekeepers who controlled all the 'facts' no longer have dominion over the gates to those facts. The death of broadcast as a means of social control at the hands of decentralized digital interactive media where there are no barriers around the distribution of information is wrecking havoc on our senses. We are now coming to terms with this grave reality and what it means for humanity.
you think people aren't controlled buy the source's of information your delusional. lambs argueing over the price of mutton.
I absolutely love everything on this channel.
The only Bible of morality or understanding of the human condition I go back to is Dostoyevsky's Notes from Underground
Murray is great!
A few observations.
Where Peterson is ‘going’
is kind of not important as it’s about personal issues dealt with personally...so using historical perspectives, we can better Steel ourselves in life. It’s not a ‘movement’ it’s a worldview.
I also share the skepticism about Harris’s ‘hope’ that rationality will full the ‘void’....and everytime he says ‘rationality’....I want to scream...’PEOPLE BUY LOTTERY TICKETS!!’
So, after all this talk, who is trying church this Sunday. If so, what kind? :-) Fascinating that 'religion' is less of a swear word in many UK circles compared with just a couple of years ago....
I would not be going to church, nor synagogue. Never have. Not interested. Except for maybe some family stuff like marriage.
I do believe that what they're pointing to is some kind of spirituality, with a religious moral Foundation.
Not just a vapid woo feel-good spirituality, though some people may require that nurturing.
Peterson points to a kind of moral guidance spirituality, which he links to Carl Jung ideas about these archetypes in the human mind and Human Society.
That would tie into one Christian idea of God residing within us, or at least contact-able from within us, rather than a stand-alone outside entity.
In other words, if spirituality in the world is an outgrowth of innate archetypes behind success of the species, and religious icons that emerged to represent that, then we can't simply replace spirituality with reason and logic ... even if we humans were not faulty in using reason and logic.
Ought can't follow directly from Is.
What if we replaced music with a sheet of paper containing the binary codes embedded in an MP3 podcast file? How inspiring would it be reading that? Or even viewing the microscopic grooves on an old LP vinyl record?
I, for one, would go to church. Which doesn’t mean I believe that any church, as any institution, is perfect and above ...sin.
You don't need church. You need the word. Get Bibles and start reading in earnest.
LMFAO The interview starts at 0:37 and by 0:47 my man has already mentioned Jordan Peterson!! I don't mean to hate bruva, I actually really enjoy your stuff. Ole' Dougieboy is always a treat, I think he should start his own podcast. The Unherd podcast with Peterson was fantastic!!
We'll try to get the JP reference in earlier next time
Hahahahaha Please do!! Have you reached out to Stephen Fry yet? That would be interesting.
Forget start a podcast, the man should run for Prime Minister!
Jordan Peterson can govern Canada.
A couple of really intriguing points brought up at 9:27 (execution of a "new religion" in media/real world) and 12:31 (morality is a ghost town analogy). Probably best to listen to the lead up to both of these points to get the full picture. On a side note, I thought Douglas Murray did a great job mediating between Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris and I enjoy listening to him speak.
Careful what you tear down....Goddamn right!
"...you have to be careful on [sic] warring on things that have given you something of worth"
Great that Murray references Spengler's 'Decline of the West'
(The Centenery revival now underway ,
1st ever Spengler Conference happening this Nov in Germany)
while he is also seemingly unaware of Spengler's prophetic statements concerning 'The Second Religiousness"
which arises when the Era of Scepticism, finally turning upon itself, consumes itself , in Nihilism
while the Original Founding Faith of the culture resurrects in a new form,
our own J.P. being in fact an early sign of its arising among us.
Many other of Spengler's prophecies are coming to startling fruition, one main reason for his revival.
Another prophecy is the final rise of Business /Tycoon Type as Political Leader , following the decline of the Soldier/Lawyer type,
(using Cecil Rhodes as archetype) making Trump a Sign of our Time, rather than an anomaly...
& many fascinating claims of Russia as the next major World Civilization in-the-making..." after it casts off this deadly Parasite of Socialism'
as he succinctly foretold in 1919...
A pity Murray only seems conscious of the cliche' image of Spengler as a 'pessimist',
rather than his positive prophecies so pertinent to this podcast's topics.
JP would love Spengler , if he only knew...
I love Douglas. His last book was amazing.
21:33 Watching a great mind think in real time. Haha that was brilliant.
The Strange Death of Europe: It's interesting to note that in 1974, Jean Raspail wrote a novel, *The Camp of the Saints,* predicting a similar invasion!
I am waiting for my copy of Murray's book so I don't want to make too many assumptions about his views, but I am not convinced this is about decline of religion. I see social justice ideology (for want of a label) as a mutated blend of post modernism and misguided good intentions which has flared up (decades ago) in such a way that it damaged the "immune system" (education) that might otherwise have kept it in check. I am not convinced that a more religious world (whatever that means) would have prevented it. It would be interesting to see a study on correlation between religiosity and SJI - although unfortunately even doing that would be difficult in the current cultural climate.
I think that is Douglas had had an experience with psychedelics (which I am in no way promoting or condoning), then he may well have a different stance on whether the resurrection could possibly have taken place as a ‘physical’ reality.
This guy is talking without all the nonsense, esoteric jargon of "source code" and "operating systems" and different coloured churches.
Finally some intelligible, intellectual banter.
I observe a frustration in Douglas
Does this have its origins in the amalgamation of church and state ?
I could listen to Murray speak all day. He sounds so thoughtful, so mentoring, so perfect. (even sexy...but he's not into women
"The arc of history bends towards justice" is Martin Luther King's pithy and legitimate remastering of 19th c Unitarian Transcendentalist minister and abolitiionist Theodore Parker's wordier original version. And yeah, it's just a faith statement - a existential choice. A necessary one almost? Well done to Douglas Murray for doing that tour with Cornel West - reaching across the divide....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Parker
Murray is one of the best analysts of current societal tendencies, arguably the best from Britain. The only thing I miss is that he doesn't tell us what we could do in regard to these problems. It seems that he doesn't have any solution.
no he isn't he doesn't talk about the controllers he just talks about the perceptions of the whitewashed masses, he doesn't adress the underlying causes of what's happening or who's causeing it, just another circus animal.
Claudie, Jordan Peterson has been proposing concrete rules to act within your limited individual possibilities, it's great part of his success. We need the best intellectuals to offer their best suggestions about how we could best act. That things are going the wrong way starts being obvious to most people. A new form of cold civil war it's about to start soon in some Western countries. We'd better figure out what to do before things get really nasty. I believe it's not much time left.
Reason/rationality is a process. It must have inputs - assumptions, axioms and data and goals. We decide as individuals and cultures what information to ignore and what goals are important. We can rationalise this but these are inevitably axiomatic. So rationality as a process suffers from "rubbish in rubbish out" and the possibilty of creating its own tyranny of religious axioms.
When Douglas says at 25:34: “We’re quite lucky at this time that some total charlatan and shit hasn’t come along with enormous power all ready to do that” I can’t help but think of Revelation’s antichrist and one world religion.
I think we have met our antichrist adversary with Islam.
I was astonished at the lack of self-awareness. Richard Dawkins was just such a one, and Sam Harris with him. They have served up a load of nonsense and swayed many people to it.
Chesterson said "If you no longer believe in God then anything becomes possible". Belief in a God provides an indisputable centre around which everything else swirls. A kind of fixed point. So, was the Enlightenment a mistake? I think it's very difficult to make the argument that it was. Post-modernism is perhaps the inevitable consequence of the Enlightenment. Meaning has become multi-centred and based purely on the premise of being relative. Everything is disputable because meaning itself has become partisan. For me, the greatest danger is that when meaning becomes purely a question of the Will. Under those conditions anything does becomes possible unless Kant was right and that there is a dynamic within reason and meaning that is a priori. To be honest I don't know.
We have failed in educating people in schools and colleges. We have not taught the importance of the fundamental principles of individual value and free speech and other enlightenment principles.
those ideas have been under attack since the 50's, in the new world they don't exist.
"We may be in the midst of discovering that the only thing worse than religion, is its absence." Douglas Murray
Absolutely agree with Douglas that it is not clear, at all, that once we entirely brush away trace of religion and concept of God, that somehow, rationality will necessarily emerge from those ashes. Quite the contrary, I believe.
Mark Freeman Agree in my experience people tend towards the irrational
Excellent interview. Personally, the name IDW is pretty silly, especially since there are others who actually fit that description say Vox Day or Franklin, whereas these guys really don't.
I can't take seriously a comment about people choosing silly names from a person named "tans99fl".
@@jrd33 - nothing silly about tanstaafl. It is a famous acronym, from a very excellent book. Regardless, I am not calling Murray and Peterson silly, only the high dorkiness of the name IDW. Murray and Peterson are completely mainstream thinkers and labeling them IDW is hilarious. Look up racial and gender differences and them you are into real taboo truth- facts that are actually hidden. I loved this interview btw.
@@jrd33 - the actual dark web is more along these lines ua-cam.com/play/PLPW49bo79yOLUqYmnmCB9qof0pgmXdNfY.html
I can't help but think 500 years ago there was a wise man who was deeply devout and thought the world was going to hell in a hand basket because the youth of today didn't respect religion enough and don't respect their elders and the grass was greener back then, and the summers were longer...
Murray is one of the last of Mohicans, baby...!
I nominate Douglas Murray to tell me what's true.
Humanity isn't ready yet to accept its existence without a religious spiritual component.
It's already a personal existential crisis to leave religious faith, how about when humanity as a whole finds itself confronting reality as is.
Douglas explains what the world is like if you are a materialist and/or a religionist. The only way out of the malaise he describes, is to look inwards to our deeper consciousness. This is where our truth dwells- the way through the confusion, on which, a purely intellectual reality has no purchase. This is the essence of traditional spiritual belief and where modern science is pointing. All 3 of the the big brain boxes, Jordan. Harris and Murray, struggle to maintain the materialist paradigm and that's why they will just keep chasing their tails. Murray gets the closest to it by saying perhaps we need a "new religion", hinting, unwittingly, at the need to expand our consciousness beyond the Cultural paradigm.
"That's me in the spotlight
Losin my Religion..."
2:30 We all know what this is really about; the crimes of the Nazis were used as the last final battering ram that broke the right of Europeans around the world to have an an ethno-religious identity, and we've been lost ever since. If it isn't regained soon, all we have to look forward to is being replaced by people who still know who they are.
Murray, understandably, is too afraid to admit this publicly, or perhaps even to admit this to himself, but I think deep down he knows it's true.
Goodness beauty and truth are not amenable to rational analysis to the point of absolute certainty but we need to look at all the attempts to keep these values in the game. Unlike animals we have 2000 to 3000 years of documented intelligent life we can look at to learn from. Science is just tools not the guiding principle that keeps us from self destructive chaos.
I guess I need to bow to your obvious superiority.
@Kitten Katt Thank you. We are on same track perhaps.
To Douglas, I would like to give my views in response to how you observe things. I feel we are pretty much at the same kind of place. If you do not read my continuing words about this. Then someone silenced my viewpoint.
5:50 right, indeed. But the problem is universalism. It drives the blank-slate idea. What ultimately prevents delusion, is not generic intellectual vigilance, in which Murray is himself part of a particular tradition, rather it is drowning due to the belief you can walk on water.
25:31 Ignorance is bliss I guess.
BBC website/youtube/daytime-vapidness is very highly progressive. There are a few old-guard in the BBC, who Corbynites rail against. The political bias against Farage for instance, is something that I grew up with. I believed he was a racist, because they always introduced him with the caveat "his critics say he's racist", which is an evil trick. Now, this sinister part of the BBC is exposed, people are savy, and understand it. The BBC is sinister EXACTLY because it claims to be impartial, and because it long ago violated our trust. They erected a statue of Orwell. Its equivalent to putting the words "ministry of truth" above the door.
steering wheels are social constructs
I just cannot believe that Douglas is not aware of or is not mentioning the Baha’i Faith as a plausible solution to this dilemma mentioned in the video
LMAO why don’t you tell us about it?