Gas ballast ..... used to introduce air, or nitrogen typically, to the inlet side of the pump to keep the pump oil from backstreaming through the lines to the chamber causing oil contamination in the vacuum chamber. It can also be used for dilution of "hazardous" substances or pressure control of your chamber This is handy when pumping on volatile substances to keep them diluted so you do not have a potentially undesirable output from the pump or worse in it. You are most likely using a hydrocarbon oil, judging by the color of what you drained out. Keep in mind that inside the pump this hydrocarbon oil is in vapor phase and heated. Go to idealvac.com for re build kits. Cheapest place I have found for new kits. Those old Welch pump just won't die. When your vacuum doesn't SUCK you have a problem 😄
Hey John, really appreciate you sharing that link. Their prices are half off every other kit I could find online. Great resource! I will save their site for down the line when I decide to rebuild the pump. Thanks for your great explanation of the gas ballast as well.
Partially right. The gas ballast does not, itself, function as a one-way valve to prevent backfeed, but instead is used in conjunction with a one way valve. The gas ballast's main purpose is to allow drier air into the pump to protect the oil from the water vapor and other volatiles coming from the vacuum chamber. By letting in a little bit of dry air, it can prevent the volatiles from condensing in your oil. You can also use a gas ballast to dry your oil. vacaero.com/information-resources/vacuum-pump-technology-education-and-training/666-gas-ballasting-of-mechanical-oil-sealed-rotary-vacuum-pumps.html
@@templebrown7179 @ElementalMaker And this is good video explaining in animation gas ballast that i show to my students when I'm explaining oil pumps use in lab: ua-cam.com/video/1SaB4aKi574/v-deo.html This pump should go down minimum 10⁻² mbar. Take good care of it and it will be your friend forever :)
I do HVAC work for a living and getting to see a old but well built machine still run just warms my heart. Also I don't get board watching you I could watch you paint a wall your commentary is funny and entertaining.
I am the maintenance manager at an industrial freeze drying operation. Our chambers are around 1000 cubic feet with 2x Busch R5-305 rotary vane main pumps with a Busch Panda WV-1500 booster as a backing pump. The gas ballast is exactly what you were describing. Rotary vane pumps have historically been oil wetted internals. They have a high tendency to create an oil mist internally during operation allowing for volitiles to mix homogeneous with the oil, water especially. The gas ballast provides a means to separate the water from the oil mist. The water should not freeze without additional heating or cooling (see water phase diagram). It is a major issue we deal with as sublimation has issue happening at the same time as evaporation. I would suggest ensuring the ability to achieve a constant 1500~2000 microns or less and have your set up accommodate for gravity. If you would like, feel free to pm and I will share any information I have that may be helpful in your vacuum chamber success.
Wow Roscoe that's quite a vacuum chamber and pump setup you guys have there! I will definitely pm you if I have any further questions. Thanks for the excellent explanation of how the ballast works 👍
It's definitely a tool I don't use very often, but it's great to have for degassing resins. Should be getting alot lot use shortly with composite propellants 👍
if you actually think you can possibly bore us, then you don't know us very well. i think i speak for more than myself that you explaining paint drying would still be fascinating. 😂
Great to see you back. I worked in Vacuum Physics for 20 years. What a lovely old pump. Gas Ballast bleeds air into the pump to mostly remove water from the oil, the pump runs a bit hotter. If the pump is single stage your ultimate Vacuum pressure will rise, 2 stage, no problem. When you change the oil,run gas ballast for an hour or more. Don't breath in the pump exhaust, ever, especially when running gas ballast, a shed load of oil vapour is expelled. Cheers Mate. 🇬🇧👍.
Wow 20 years of vacuum physics! I bet you have done some awesome experiments and have some great stories! This model here is a Duoseal 1400, so it is indeed a two stage rotary vacuum pump. Any idea how long it might need to run with the gas ballast open to get water vapor out of the oil? I am building a filter to thread into the exhaust to help capture oil mist. I am sure if I ran it overnight with the current cap I would come out to a very oily workshop in the morning.
ElementalMaker cool mate, I'll get back to you soon and tell you about some of the systems I used to work with if you don't mind, I could strip down any Rotary pump bloody blindfolded. I'll give you any help or advice you need mate. I must bugger of now, I've got to get up for work in 5 hours. It's 00:30hrs this side of the pond. Speak soon. 🇬🇧👍.
Hi my friend. Sorry this Missive is a bit long. I'll tell you a Shit load Cool stories to pass on mate, I'll do it in small segments, unlike this lol, otherwise it'll get to much to read and I don't want to bore you. Do you have a face book page? I think I've still got an unused oil mist filter with an Activated charcoal cartridge I would be happy to send it to you, if you have a work address or PO Box I could send it to. Please be careful if you make your own diy oil mist filter, if you get a restriction you could blow out your oil seals, not good. Run the pump on gas ballast for a couple of hours after the oil change and check the state of the oil . It might be a good idea to change the oil again. It's good to run the pump for extended periods. When I worked at GEC Avionics Applied Physics we had over 150 Vacuum systems of every conceivable type, all our rotary pumps ran 24/7. Sorry this message is a bit long. Lastly, I built an Ultra High Vacuum system that had to be 100% Hydrocarbon free, so no turbo molecular, rotary or diffusion pumps. This baby could pump down from atmosphere to 5x10-10 Mbar with no moving parts. Well cool. I'll keep it short next time. Take Care Mate. 🇬🇧👍. 🍺Cheers.
Since you asked: I inherited an old Alcatel industrial vacuum pump and was able to find rebuild parts and the owners manual online. It has a "mystery" air inlet valve, and the instructions say one can purge volatiles from the oil by running it until it gets hot, then letting air in the valve. Also made a vacuum chamber using an 8" PVC coupler, 1/2" plexiglass, and solid neoprene sheet (not my idea, saw it on the 'web somewhere).
Now thats a steal! Great find! From what I've heard these pumps last forever with regular oil changes so you should be in business with just some fresh oil
You may want to use a cold trap in the line when doing things with a lot of moisture in them. However it looks from reading the comments below that the gas ballast may also be very useful for the same thing. Water in your vacuum oil is not something you want. That is a very nice old pump.
Yeah I definitely want to build a cold trap. Only issue is nowhere around here sells LN2 and its even hard to find dry ice. Closest place that sells dry ice is about a half hour drive. I may try building a multistage peltier cooler to use for a cold trap.
@@ElementalMaker No dry ice near by that not nice of them at all. What about a welding supply for the LN2 and just keep a supply on hand or would the need not justify the cost? The multistage peltier may do the trick. For that matter even water ice with salt would be better than noting I would think.
This is 4 years ago but perfect! I have a vacuum pump but was looking for a cheap chamber to speed dry some wood, should be able to do this for $10, all I need is the bowl.
Omg That looks like my vacuum pump! My dad bought it in the 80s and used it for HVAC evac as he would gas the system up after wiring it. He is a electrican, that's awesome !
Idea for freeze drying, Take your vaccum chamber bowl and put it on a bed of dry ice or in a liquid nitrogen bath while it's running. For the heating part you could try using a fish tank heater in a water bath inside the chamber. Just make sure the fish tank heater won't explode in the vaccum and will reach the temps you want. Not sure if it will work but you seem to have the resources and cleverness to expand on the idea if it's viable. Good stuff!
The age of these pumps has little to do with the depth of vacuum you can pull. They can, however be damaged by corrosion from water, or particulate matter getting in. If there is no mechanical damage, then the critical sealing is done by the oil itself, so a couple of flushes of clean oil will normally get you into .1-10 micron level vacuum. The seal on the shaft is there mainly to keep oil from leaking out. If it is actually worn or damaged, they can be fixed by lapping the end plates flat again, as well as the rotor faces if need be. The housing then needs to be lapped to a couple thou wider than the rotor, and new vanes trimmed (ground) to match the rotor width. If you have to disassemble one, it is critical on reassembly that the rotor to housing spacing be set correctly, which has to be done blind. The trick is to use a shim of 1 layer of cigarette (yeah, right!) rolling paper at the oil seal (slot) area, and let gravity press the housing onto the rotor. The rotor should be positioned with the vanes near vertical for this (just to the side of the slot). The shim disintegrates upon running, and is removed when the oil is changed after a few minutes run time. One last thing: As a lifelong high altitude dweller, it drives me nuts when people don't mention that the gauge (differential) readings they are spouting apply only at sea level. In Denver or Albuquerque a perfect vacuum is only 24"Hg or so, depending on weather. Refrigeration and AC literature rarely mentions this, and I have never seen it even mentioned at all in automotive AC literature. If you use a thermocouple or Pirani gauge, it doesn't matter, as these respond to absolute pressure, and do not rely on atmospheric pressure as a reference, but automotive AC techs often do not have TC gauges. And also, barometric pressure is NOT ambient pressure...it is adjusted for altitude, so weather forecasters don't need to think about it.
I´m not sure what exact type of pump you have here, but AFAIK all rotary vane pumps are unsuitable for pumping water vapor. It will contaminate the oil and apparently can also cause damage to the pump through cavitation. Opening the gas ballast does help degas the pump´s oil, but is not enough if you are intentionally pumping a significant amount of water. One way to degas your oil in general is to seal the pump´s inlet and leave it running with the gas ballast open.
This model is Welch Duoseal 1400, they are build for pretty rugged use. Owners manual doesn't say water vapor is an issue. I believe that is what the gas ballast is for, it heats the oil to drive off various vapors trapped in the oil, water being one of them.
@@ElementalMaker In general, a rotary vane pump should always be heated to its operating temperature before pumping anything, especially "condensible vapors" such as water. If you run the pump at its ultimate pressure, it has little friction and therefore generates less heat. So for more heat, you can open the gas ballast to give the pump something to move. This also decreases the ultimate pressure it can reach by a bit. When the oil is hot, anything dissolved in it should outgas much faster than otherwise, and things won´t condense as easily. However this is still a fairly slow process. I´m not 100% sure if there are any rotary vane pumps that can handle this, but normally to pump water vapor, you use a cold trap to condense and freeze it before it enters your pump. There are also vacuum pump oils that are specially designed for pumping condensible vapors, but even then I´m not sure if they still expect you to use a cold trap. (it won´t remove 100% of the vapors of course) On the other hand all the info about vacuum systems is always about running these systems 24/7/365, so I have no idea how fast any of this becomes a problem.
Had a look at the manual and I found something about it: (from a newer model) "1.171 The need for a Trap Where corrosive vapors or large quantities of condensable vapors are evolved from vacuum processing, a cold trap may be used in the connecting line to the pump. It will help prevent damage to the pump mechanism and reduce oil contamination. The cold trap, immersed in a suitable Dewar fl ask, is installed to that the vapors may come in contact with the surfaces of the trap and condense. Commonly used refrigerants are liquid nitrogen or dry ice and acetone. The refrigerant to be used depends upon the freezing point of the contaminations. "
@@Basement-Science nice find 👍. That's what I get for breezing through a manual lol. I don't think I will be doing anything involving large quantities of water vapor aside from that little demo for the video. If I do end up trying freeze drying I will definitely build a cold trap for it though.
Cool! I have a precision D150 pump that I am wanting to experiment with and It looks to be even larger than the one that you were using. I will be using 1" thick poly.
Yeah I picked up one of those years ago and remember running it and hearing that curious sound. Maybe I’ll dig it out of my shed and try some experiments of my own.
I've had a fridge compressor in storage for a long time... not long after I got it "people" (Justin from The Thought Emporium leaps immediately to mind) told me that a fridge compressor just isn't good enough. have you got any details of your build or any figures (inches of mercury, torr...). I suppose, really, I should just get mine built and, that way, I can "suck it and see".
edgeeffect if you check my channel there is a short video on the “wiring” of it to start, after that it’s just a hose from the intake side Didn’t measure it yet but it broke multiple vacuum chamber covers for me, boils water and can sustain longer runs (I mostly utilize it for vacuum filtration in chemistry and didn’t have problem running it overnight to dry substances)
he's running a1400 DuoSeal Vacuum Pump. Your refrigerator compressor will not even come close to pulling as much. The DuoSeal is a dual rotary vane vacuum pump and will pull down to 0.1 micron!
Rick Halverson it was a year ago but if I remember corretly I compared it to the performance shown in the video not the theoretical maximum, ofc a vacuum pump designed to pull vacuum will be superior to a fridge compressor but it can still boil water/used for vacuum destill and filtration / evacuate atmosphere before inert gas flush (which is done repeatedly with top pumps too anyways)
@@killerke11 yes they can go quite low. I used to use one. I purchased a compressor that was designed in Italy called silent air, I would use it for both a compressor and a vacuum pump. It certainly does work. That was before I got a dual stage dedicated pump. They do go lower.
for my vacume pump, i pulled a refridgerator motor out of an abandoned fridge and rewired it , mounted it to an old air compressor cylinder so i have a vacume pump on its intake side when i open the tank to atmosphere, and a silent compressor for indoors from the outlet side when i close the tank valve back up, its all mounted and wired up to the tank and on wheels so its easy to cart, im lazy though and havent plumbed up the tank to the outlet yet so its still just a vacum for now till i need the compressor
Always wanted to get an old compressor to test as a vacuum pump. I hear they work pretty well. Might have to hit the scrapyard and grab one just to play with.
I had that setup in the past. Even used a water pressure switch to shut it off after it filled a 5 gallon air tank. I just used ordinary dug store mineral oil for the oil and it lasted way longer than I needed it to.
@@ElementalMaker When my 5.5hp unit revs up I often wish I had that little one again because it was so wonderfully quiet. I used a window AC unit and put casters on the bottom so I could pull it around my garage and out onto the concrete driveway easily. ( Once the evap & condenser were ripped off there was enough room for the 5 gal air tank onboard. ) Also, the way to do the inlets and outlets easily is just to braze them with copper. For mine that was my only cost for the unit, the rods & gas. BTW, video idea. Now that I don't have that I'd love to see a video on making vacuum using a venturi. I know HF used to have a cheap venturi vacuum that would work with lots of air but I have wondered if it'd be an easy thing to make.
You can't hurt that pump if it has oil in it. We used vacuum fixtures at a shop I used to work at. We had that exact model and it would get left on over night at least a few times a month. Despite being half full of coolant most of its life, it just kept going. Have fun with your super suck!
That pump is a beautyyyy, even the sound is incredible. Maintenance is good, but i also don't like to fix what's not broken. Really would like to see a teardown if it does tho.
Hello. If you accept a suggestion, just buy a normal refrigeration filter, an old fire extinguisher, connect in this sequence (maybe you'll need some soldering): inlet(from de vacuum chamber)-fire extinguisher(inlet down, output up)-filter-vacuum pump. Then enjoy many years of good vacuum.
as I understand the gas ballast inlet is; 1)open gas ballast 2)air in sucked in through gas ballast and is allowed to whip up into the vac oil decreasing its viscosity 3) motor starts to spin faster due to thinner oil 4) motor temp Increases due to faster spinning and that heat is transferred to the pump oil 5)volatile start to "burn" off due to increased oil temp. you'll notice the vac pump start to exhaust oil / volatile vapor when using gas ballast for 30+ minutes
For freeze drying, just add a valve on your vacuum chamber, pull a vacuum, close the valve, and remove the line, then take the whole thing into a freezer... Or connect the chamber valve up to a Teflon tube and siphon in liquid nitrogen, which will flash freeze everything in the bowl. For your seal just scratch up the flat rim of the steel bowl, clean with alcohol, and lay a generous bead of Loctite 592 (vacuum rated gasket maker/sealant with Teflon in it), and let it dry for 72 hours. You can use the same stuff to remake your pump gaskets if you want to rebuild it and can't get an affordable gasket set. It's around 30$ a tube of 50ml.
Heavy as hell, but they pull one heck of a vacuum and are damn near indestructible 👍. My brother in law is in hvac and was blown away by my pump. We're going to use it when we put in my new minisplit unit
The ballast valve should be opened a tiny bit before starting the motor and close few seconds after the motor is running and that’s it. This is on the instructions of my JB 2 stage pump.
I normally only pulled 2 to 3 inches mercury when I make P-BAM AP composite rocket motors.P-BAM does also require the fuel to be heated while pulling vacuum witch HTPM doesn't require. Thus most popular and what is mostly sold today. I personally learned using P-BAM and many pro's still use it because it make a little more power and has more creative possibility's when using it. Because of this I used a old steel framed refrigerator as a vacuum chamber. This way I could stand big motors up right and several of them at a time when doing a big pour and still have room for a ceramic electrical heater in the refrigerator. I just used a kitchen aid mixer ( bread dough mixer) that I covered the electrical brush end of motor with shielding. I mixed fuel batches for 20 to 25 minutes to get good intimate mix. All most impossible to do by hand and make good motors. This should be your next tool to hunt down and modify. Will make the hobby more enjoyable to. P-BAM binder you do need to degas the fuel but most people today use HTPB witch all ready has a anti shear additive and a degassing additive in it so air bubbles are not introduced as easily. P-BAM doesn't come with these all ready in it. They have to be added. Knowing this it doesn't hurt to pull a small vacuum if you have a ability in the size motors you will be doing regardless of propellant. Large high horse power motors still require a vacuum even if using HTPB to ensure every bubble gets out to avoid CATO's. I would say as long as the diameter of the motor is under 1 1/4 inches degassing isn't normally necessary. Bigger I for sure would do so. If you need any help let me know. I probably have any of these special chemicals you need in excess. Only requires a drop or two to reduce shear and a drop or two to remove air bubbles if your particular propellant dont all ready have the additives. They are not expensive just hard to get. By the way love your vacuum pump! That thing is so cool. I love old shit like that. I turned my fresh air head gear pump I used for spray booth and turned it in a vacuum pump. It works great but is loud as hell. I like how quit yours is! I can pull 29 inches witch is about as good as it gets where I live. Mine is also heavy as hell. Feels like your lifting a lead brick :-)
Sounds like you have quite an awesome setup! You mention P-BAM resin which I've never heard of, do you mean PBAN? I have a gallon of old PBAN resin from about ten years ago. Not sure if it would still be usable today though. I couldn't ever get it to cure properly so I gave up on it. I now have a gallon of HTPB and isonate curative I'll be trying shortly.
I have a similar setup only I used 5/8 lexan on the top of a pressure cooker. A gifted pump from a heart/lung machine to top it off. Up here it will hold 25 inches of vacuum. Not too bad being at 2500 meters eh. I have a video on it. A regular service and this pump will last you for ages. Nothing better than nice clean oil. Fun post bud.
I have a digit vacuum gauge that I never use anymore. I will test it first to make sure you are getting a freebie, and not a lemon. Its free just pay shipping costs. If you would like the gauge. we can somehow exchange details to make it happen.
If you want to use it for drying, dont forget to have a desucant and a heating pad. For some reason everytime someone diy's a vacuum chamber to use drying, i rarely see something to raise the temperature.
At.001 torr drying is not sped up much by temperature, and a heating of won’t do a thing. With the chamber near absolute vacuum, assuming his sample b is sitting in a dish or smaller vessel on some desiccant, a heating pad will not heat up the sample because the vacuum is such an efficient insulator. In your application truly does require heat, like degassing a non-Newtonian fluid where heat is required to loosen it up, a radiative heat lamp will heat transit the vacuum and heat surfaces Cool pump btw, I just picked up a 1400b and am looking forward to playing too
I was doing some work for a guy and he threw away that exact same vacuum pump I asked if I could have it and he said sure it's broken. I took it home and was able to fix it . About six months later he asked if he could barrow it and I said sure. After about a month I asked if he was done with it. He told me that it was his and he never threw it away. I discovered he was a drunk and things that he borrowed from other people and later claimed those tools he bought and not theirs.
When you boil water with an oil pump, you need a dry ice trap or desiccant trap between the chamber and the pump, otherwise you are immediately contaminating your brand new oil with water vapor and you're going to need to change your oil again.
Absolutely true, I need to get a proper cold trap set up. The oil I use is cheap enough I don't mind switching it constantly. This pump has a built in feature that let's it run and remove water from the oil as well
Yeah, I have over 7000 ads and crap on my old email address so write me at [veron.jeff@yahoo.com] I wish youtube would allow pics but I understand why they don’t. Anyway, I picked my vacuum pump up for $100 about 5 years ago. It still pulls -27Hg of atmospheric pressure.
Typically vacuum tables use much higher volume blowers such as a shop vac to hold down work pieces. This pump is very low volume (0.9cfm) but very high ultimate vacuum. This would be more useful to evacuate air conditioning lines before filling with refrigerant or other high vacuum applications.
I forgot to add that the other reason why people still like P-BAM is you can mix it as long as you wish with out it setting up on you with ALL the ingredients in the mix. The heat is what activates and cross links it. NOT chemical reactions taking place. HTPB you can mix as long as you want if you dont add the curative to it until the last two minutes of mixing. Your under the gun once you do add it. This very reason is why NASA used P-BAM to make the enormous booster engines to ensure no defects and work-ability time needed.
I thought the reason it freezes is because the vaccum pulls away the vapor which lowers vapor pressure and the evaporation of water, with its latent heat pulls so much heat from the water (to evaporate water and raise the vapor pressure) that it just freezes. along the top.
I was able to acquire a robin rotary vacuum pump from a automotive HVAC refrigerant charging and recovering unit that was being retired from when they got a new unit at my Automotive and Diesel technician training program
They just don't build stuff the way they used to. This is a well built unit. To get something of similar quality today (assuming it even exists) is cost an arm and leg. Likely the only way you could get similar quality is with a large commercial unit. Unless it wasn't working at all or performing so badly that it is essentially useless, I wouldn't rebuild it. The rebuilding kits are probably nowhere near the quality of the original.
But is the model unchanged? There may very well be revision updates that includes cheaper components. The decline in quality of even industrial equipment has been astonishing. Back when I was about 20 in the late 80s I worked in the steel industry and even then the old equipment was way better than the new equipment. We had these 20s/30s era cranes that were in service and used 24/7 that were built like tanks and almost never went down. Then we had 80s cranes that bowed and went down constantly.
@@tarstarkusz apparently the duoseal pumps have remained unchanged in build, design, and quality since their introduction. Even newer ones are known to run forever. They have actually upgraded the seal materials to viton, so they will likely last even longer nowadays.
Slip into the kitchen and grab your wife’s silicone baking tray for your chamber gasket and if she does not notice take the air conditioning compressor off her car , makes a vacuum pump .
that didnt sound like a rotary vane pump sounded like a piston pump to me. just change the oil a cpl times ,maybe run it for an hour or two then change the oil a 2nd time and call it fixed
Why would you want to degas the epoxy propellant? Looks to me like you skipped an important step - the testing of the propellant with and without degasing.
Somehow I think your normal vacuum pump has a much smaller clear cylinder... :P ua-cam.com/video/Za7bHIKsxc4/v-deo.html That oil has become earl. If you put anything with liquids in it in the vacuum chamber you need to put a drier in line to keep moisture out of your pump. Also for freeze drying... dry ice under the chamber should do it.
Man that old vacuum pump looks pretty similar in design to Explosions&fire2's pump Different company But heeeyyy Unfortunately though, the poor chemist has no gas ballast For the years of cancerous solvent vapors they've pumped through the unfortunate old boy. Not that I know what I'm talking about
Well that´s a great way to ruin it^^ When you want to remove gasses from somewhere, it´s a good thing if your oil doesn´t release any gas itself. Plus olive oil will get really nasty over time, especially if it gets hot.
Pump is rated to pull 0.1 micron. Of course this chamber setup is leakier than a sieve, but with a proper chamber many folks use these pumps for fusors, which require a pretty high vacuum.
@@ElementalMaker- I don't mean to be argumentative, love your channel, watch it all the time, , but I've been for . ;-) My guess is that the pump is rated for 0.1 inch of water, which is 186 microns of mercury (the term that vacuum guys are referring to when they say "microns"). A two stage vane or piston pump just can't get the low pressures like a diffusion or turbo pump can get. Not even close! I use a 2 stage robinaire pump rated at 35 microns as a *backing* pump to my real, true, vacuum pump, which is a diffusion pump, because I can't afford a turbo pump. I can get 50 microns at the robinaire on a good day and fractions of a micron at the diffusion pump if I am very careful about my test setup. But even then, a special micron gauge is required to make the measurements. A dial gauge (directly readable) is impossible, since 1 atmosphere is 760,000 microns and 50/760000 would not be perceptible to the human eye on a dial guage. There has to be a units mistake here. There just has to be. I'd love to reach clarification and understanding on this, but will continue to hit like on all future videos either way.
@@FelonyVideos no worries. Always enjoy a good discussion. You can see the specs of the pump here welchvacuum.com/products/duoseal-1400#product-specifications. It's listed ultimate pressure is 0.1 micron, or 1x10-4 torr. I don't believe this particular pump could ever reach that, given it's age and condition. Even with a rebuild the steel mating surfaces are probably not adequate, but that's the listed pressure from welch. And given their scientific pedigree I do believe their data. I really want to find an old hastings vacuum gauge and test how far I can push this old pump.
@@ElementalMaker- Well dang, you're right! I'll eat my words on this one! Appreciate the response and agree, welch knows what they are doing. Now I want one of those pumps!
@@FelonyVideos yessir I'm sure back in the day this pump could pull one hell of a vacuum. I wonder why this two stage pump can pull such a strong vacuum compared to some others in the market. Maybe it comes down to part tolerance.
Gas ballast ..... used to introduce air, or nitrogen typically, to the inlet side of the pump to keep the pump oil from backstreaming through the lines to the chamber causing oil contamination in the vacuum chamber. It can also be used for dilution of "hazardous" substances or pressure control of your chamber This is handy when pumping on volatile substances to keep them diluted so you do not have a potentially undesirable output from the pump or worse in it. You are most likely using a hydrocarbon oil, judging by the color of what you drained out. Keep in mind that inside the pump this hydrocarbon oil is in vapor phase and heated.
Go to idealvac.com for re build kits. Cheapest place I have found for new kits. Those old Welch pump just won't die. When your vacuum doesn't SUCK you have a problem 😄
FYI ... I do not work for or receive a thing from Idealvac that my company does not pay for.
Hey John, really appreciate you sharing that link. Their prices are half off every other kit I could find online. Great resource! I will save their site for down the line when I decide to rebuild the pump. Thanks for your great explanation of the gas ballast as well.
Partially right. The gas ballast does not, itself, function as a one-way valve to prevent backfeed, but instead is used in conjunction with a one way valve. The gas ballast's main purpose is to allow drier air into the pump to protect the oil from the water vapor and other volatiles coming from the vacuum chamber. By letting in a little bit of dry air, it can prevent the volatiles from condensing in your oil.
You can also use a gas ballast to dry your oil.
vacaero.com/information-resources/vacuum-pump-technology-education-and-training/666-gas-ballasting-of-mechanical-oil-sealed-rotary-vacuum-pumps.html
@@templebrown7179 @ElementalMaker And this is good video explaining in animation gas ballast that i show to my students when I'm explaining oil pumps use in lab: ua-cam.com/video/1SaB4aKi574/v-deo.html
This pump should go down minimum 10⁻² mbar. Take good care of it and it will be your friend forever :)
@@ElementalMaker glad I could help. Great video as usual.
I do HVAC work for a living and getting to see a old but well built machine still run just warms my heart. Also I don't get board watching you I could watch you paint a wall your commentary is funny and entertaining.
I am the maintenance manager at an industrial freeze drying operation. Our chambers are around 1000 cubic feet with 2x Busch R5-305 rotary vane main pumps with a Busch Panda WV-1500 booster as a backing pump. The gas ballast is exactly what you were describing. Rotary vane pumps have historically been oil wetted internals. They have a high tendency to create an oil mist internally during operation allowing for volitiles to mix homogeneous with the oil, water especially. The gas ballast provides a means to separate the water from the oil mist. The water should not freeze without additional heating or cooling (see water phase diagram). It is a major issue we deal with as sublimation has issue happening at the same time as evaporation. I would suggest ensuring the ability to achieve a constant 1500~2000 microns or less and have your set up accommodate for gravity. If you would like, feel free to pm and I will share any information I have that may be helpful in your vacuum chamber success.
Wow Roscoe that's quite a vacuum chamber and pump setup you guys have there! I will definitely pm you if I have any further questions. Thanks for the excellent explanation of how the ballast works 👍
A vacuum chamber is one of those things I want but really have no use for. Glad to know i can make one this easy.
It's definitely a tool I don't use very often, but it's great to have for degassing resins. Should be getting alot lot use shortly with composite propellants 👍
@@ElementalMaker I want to start doing mold making and casting silicone and resins so maybe I should build one
if you actually think you can possibly bore us, then you don't know us very well. i think i speak for more than myself that you explaining paint drying would still be fascinating. 😂
LOL I appreciate it!
Great to see you back. I worked in Vacuum Physics for 20 years. What a lovely old pump. Gas Ballast bleeds air into the pump to mostly remove water from the oil, the pump runs a bit hotter. If the pump is single stage your ultimate Vacuum pressure will rise, 2 stage, no problem. When you change the oil,run gas ballast for an hour or more. Don't breath in the pump exhaust, ever, especially when running gas ballast, a shed load of oil vapour is expelled. Cheers Mate. 🇬🇧👍.
Wow 20 years of vacuum physics! I bet you have done some awesome experiments and have some great stories! This model here is a Duoseal 1400, so it is indeed a two stage rotary vacuum pump. Any idea how long it might need to run with the gas ballast open to get water vapor out of the oil? I am building a filter to thread into the exhaust to help capture oil mist. I am sure if I ran it overnight with the current cap I would come out to a very oily workshop in the morning.
ElementalMaker cool mate, I'll get back to you soon and tell you about some of the systems I used to work with if you don't mind, I could strip down any Rotary pump bloody blindfolded. I'll give you any help or advice you need mate. I must bugger of now, I've got to get up for work in 5 hours. It's 00:30hrs this side of the pond. Speak soon. 🇬🇧👍.
Hi my friend. Sorry this Missive is a bit long. I'll tell you a Shit load Cool stories to pass on mate, I'll do it in small segments, unlike this lol, otherwise it'll get to much to read and I don't want to bore you. Do you have a face book page? I think I've still got an unused oil mist filter with an Activated charcoal cartridge I would be happy to send it to you, if you have a work address or PO Box I could send it to. Please be careful if you make your own diy oil mist filter, if you get a restriction you could blow out your oil seals, not good. Run the pump on gas ballast for a couple of hours after the oil change and check the state of the oil . It might be a good idea to change the oil again. It's good to run the pump for extended periods. When I worked at GEC Avionics Applied Physics we had over 150 Vacuum systems of every conceivable type, all our rotary pumps ran 24/7. Sorry this message is a bit long. Lastly, I built an Ultra High Vacuum system that had to be 100% Hydrocarbon free, so no turbo molecular, rotary or diffusion pumps. This baby could pump down from atmosphere to 5x10-10 Mbar with no moving parts. Well cool. I'll keep it short next time. Take Care Mate. 🇬🇧👍. 🍺Cheers.
Since you asked: I inherited an old Alcatel industrial vacuum pump and was able to find rebuild parts and the owners manual online. It has a "mystery" air inlet valve, and the instructions say one can purge volatiles from the oil by running it until it gets hot, then letting air in the valve. Also made a vacuum chamber using an 8" PVC coupler, 1/2" plexiglass, and solid neoprene sheet (not my idea, saw it on the 'web somewhere).
Just found one of these pumps in my university's surplus store for $25. Hoping to put her to some good use. Glad to see another one alive too.
Now thats a steal! Great find! From what I've heard these pumps last forever with regular oil changes so you should be in business with just some fresh oil
You may want to use a cold trap in the line when doing things with a lot of moisture in them. However it looks from reading the comments below that the gas ballast may also be very useful for the same thing. Water in your vacuum oil is not something you want. That is a very nice old pump.
Yeah I definitely want to build a cold trap. Only issue is nowhere around here sells LN2 and its even hard to find dry ice. Closest place that sells dry ice is about a half hour drive. I may try building a multistage peltier cooler to use for a cold trap.
@@ElementalMaker No dry ice near by that not nice of them at all. What about a welding supply for the LN2 and just keep a supply on hand or would the need not justify the cost? The multistage peltier may do the trick. For that matter even water ice with salt would be better than noting I would think.
This is 4 years ago but perfect! I have a vacuum pump but was looking for a cheap chamber to speed dry some wood, should be able to do this for $10, all I need is the bowl.
Omg
That looks like my vacuum pump!
My dad bought it in the 80s and used it for HVAC evac as he would gas the system up after wiring it. He is a electrican, that's awesome !
Idea for freeze drying, Take your vaccum chamber bowl and put it on a bed of dry ice or in a liquid nitrogen bath while it's running. For the heating part you could try using a fish tank heater in a water bath inside the chamber. Just make sure the fish tank heater won't explode in the vaccum and will reach the temps you want.
Not sure if it will work but you seem to have the resources and cleverness to expand on the idea if it's viable.
Good stuff!
That is a beautiful pump. Old and tough one.
Your predictability level is a 10. Why you say? I knew the garden hose and girl friend joke was COMING? HHA HA!
Love the sound of these pumps, cheers for the video.
The age of these pumps has little to do with the depth of vacuum you can pull. They can, however be damaged by corrosion from water, or particulate matter getting in. If there is no mechanical damage, then the critical sealing is done by the oil itself, so a couple of flushes of clean oil will normally get you into .1-10 micron level vacuum. The seal on the shaft is there mainly to keep oil from leaking out.
If it is actually worn or damaged, they can be fixed by lapping the end plates flat again, as well as the rotor faces if need be. The housing then needs to be lapped to a couple thou wider than the rotor, and new vanes trimmed (ground) to match the rotor width.
If you have to disassemble one, it is critical on reassembly that the rotor to housing spacing be set correctly, which has to be done blind. The trick is to use a shim of 1 layer of cigarette (yeah, right!) rolling paper at the oil seal (slot) area, and let gravity press the housing onto the rotor. The rotor should be positioned with the vanes near vertical for this (just to the side of the slot).
The shim disintegrates upon running, and is removed when the oil is changed after a few minutes run time.
One last thing: As a lifelong high altitude dweller, it drives me nuts when people don't mention that the gauge (differential) readings they are spouting apply only at sea level. In Denver or Albuquerque a perfect vacuum is only 24"Hg or so, depending on weather. Refrigeration and AC literature rarely mentions this, and I have never seen it even mentioned at all in automotive AC literature. If you use a thermocouple or Pirani gauge, it doesn't matter, as these respond to absolute pressure, and do not rely on atmospheric pressure as a reference, but automotive AC techs often do not have TC gauges. And also, barometric pressure is NOT ambient pressure...it is adjusted for altitude, so weather forecasters don't need to think about it.
I once used a compressor from an old refrigerator to make a vacuum pump while installing and air conditioner in a Volkswagen van!
I´m not sure what exact type of pump you have here, but AFAIK all rotary vane pumps are unsuitable for pumping water vapor. It will contaminate the oil and apparently can also cause damage to the pump through cavitation. Opening the gas ballast does help degas the pump´s oil, but is not enough if you are intentionally pumping a significant amount of water.
One way to degas your oil in general is to seal the pump´s inlet and leave it running with the gas ballast open.
This model is Welch Duoseal 1400, they are build for pretty rugged use. Owners manual doesn't say water vapor is an issue. I believe that is what the gas ballast is for, it heats the oil to drive off various vapors trapped in the oil, water being one of them.
@@ElementalMaker In general, a rotary vane pump should always be heated to its operating temperature before pumping anything, especially "condensible vapors" such as water. If you run the pump at its ultimate pressure, it has little friction and therefore generates less heat. So for more heat, you can open the gas ballast to give the pump something to move. This also decreases the ultimate pressure it can reach by a bit.
When the oil is hot, anything dissolved in it should outgas much faster than otherwise, and things won´t condense as easily. However this is still a fairly slow process.
I´m not 100% sure if there are any rotary vane pumps that can handle this, but normally to pump water vapor, you use a cold trap to condense and freeze it before it enters your pump. There are also vacuum pump oils that are specially designed for pumping condensible vapors, but even then I´m not sure if they still expect you to use a cold trap. (it won´t remove 100% of the vapors of course) On the other hand all the info about vacuum systems is always about running these systems 24/7/365, so I have no idea how fast any of this becomes a problem.
Had a look at the manual and I found something about it: (from a newer model)
"1.171 The need for a Trap
Where corrosive vapors or large quantities of condensable vapors are evolved from vacuum processing, a cold
trap may be used in the connecting line to the pump. It will help prevent damage to the pump mechanism and
reduce oil contamination. The cold trap, immersed in a suitable Dewar fl ask, is installed to that the vapors may
come in contact with the surfaces of the trap and condense. Commonly used refrigerants are liquid nitrogen or
dry ice and acetone. The refrigerant to be used depends upon the freezing point of the contaminations. "
@@Basement-Science nice find 👍. That's what I get for breezing through a manual lol. I don't think I will be doing anything involving large quantities of water vapor aside from that little demo for the video. If I do end up trying freeze drying I will definitely build a cold trap for it though.
Cool! I have a precision D150 pump that I am wanting to experiment with and It looks to be even larger than the one that you were using. I will be using 1" thick poly.
Yeah I picked up one of those years ago and remember running it and hearing that curious sound. Maybe I’ll dig it out of my shed and try some experiments of my own.
So EM == AVE?
And have a look at one of Extractions&Ire videos he strips down a very similar pump.
I am far less eloquent with my words than AVE, but I appreciate the comparison! He's a youtube legend.
I thought the exact same thing. Though EM swears much less and pronounces all his words correctly. Haha
Nephew Stumblefuck
Made mine from a fridge compressor, pulls about this much vacuum too
I've had a fridge compressor in storage for a long time... not long after I got it "people" (Justin from The Thought Emporium leaps immediately to mind) told me that a fridge compressor just isn't good enough. have you got any details of your build or any figures (inches of mercury, torr...).
I suppose, really, I should just get mine built and, that way, I can "suck it and see".
edgeeffect if you check my channel there is a short video on the “wiring” of it to start, after that it’s just a hose from the intake side
Didn’t measure it yet but it broke multiple vacuum chamber covers for me, boils water and can sustain longer runs (I mostly utilize it for vacuum filtration in chemistry and didn’t have problem running it overnight to dry substances)
he's running a1400 DuoSeal Vacuum Pump. Your refrigerator compressor will not even come close to pulling as much. The DuoSeal is a dual rotary vane vacuum pump and will pull down to 0.1 micron!
Rick Halverson it was a year ago but if I remember corretly I compared it to the performance shown in the video not the theoretical maximum, ofc a vacuum pump designed to pull vacuum will be superior to a fridge compressor but it can still boil water/used for vacuum destill and filtration / evacuate atmosphere before inert gas flush (which is done repeatedly with top pumps too anyways)
@@killerke11 yes they can go quite low. I used to use one. I purchased a compressor that was designed in Italy called silent air, I would use it for both a compressor and a vacuum pump.
It certainly does work. That was before I got a dual stage dedicated pump. They do go lower.
Very well explained, thanks
for my vacume pump, i pulled a refridgerator motor out of an abandoned fridge and rewired it , mounted it to an old air compressor cylinder so i have a vacume pump on its intake side when i open the tank to atmosphere, and a silent compressor for indoors from the outlet side when i close the tank valve back up, its all mounted and wired up to the tank and on wheels so its easy to cart, im lazy though and havent plumbed up the tank to the outlet yet so its still just a vacum for now till i need the compressor
Always wanted to get an old compressor to test as a vacuum pump. I hear they work pretty well. Might have to hit the scrapyard and grab one just to play with.
I had that setup in the past. Even used a water pressure switch to shut it off after it filled a 5 gallon air tank. I just used ordinary dug store mineral oil for the oil and it lasted way longer than I needed it to.
That ingenious! I might have to steel that same setup for a nice quiet garage compressor!
Or maybe the basement so it doesn't wake up the wife LOL
@@ElementalMaker When my 5.5hp unit revs up I often wish I had that little one again because it was so wonderfully quiet. I used a window AC unit and put casters on the bottom so I could pull it around my garage and out onto the concrete driveway easily. ( Once the evap & condenser were ripped off there was enough room for the 5 gal air tank onboard. )
Also, the way to do the inlets and outlets easily is just to braze them with copper. For mine that was my only cost for the unit, the rods & gas.
BTW, video idea. Now that I don't have that I'd love to see a video on making vacuum using a venturi. I know HF used to have a cheap venturi vacuum that would work with lots of air but I have wondered if it'd be an easy thing to make.
You can't hurt that pump if it has oil in it. We used vacuum fixtures at a shop I used to work at. We had that exact model and it would get left on over night at least a few times a month. Despite being half full of coolant most of its life, it just kept going. Have fun with your super suck!
Wow they really do build these pumps for abuse!
Do a collab with aVe on a teardown and rebuild. That would be awesome.
Trust me I'd love to some day
That pump is a beautyyyy, even the sound is incredible. Maintenance is good, but i also don't like to fix what's not broken. Really would like to see a teardown if it does tho.
Hello. If you accept a suggestion, just buy a normal refrigeration filter, an old fire extinguisher, connect in this sequence (maybe you'll need some soldering): inlet(from de vacuum chamber)-fire extinguisher(inlet down, output up)-filter-vacuum pump. Then enjoy many years of good vacuum.
as I understand the gas ballast inlet is; 1)open gas ballast 2)air in sucked in through gas ballast and is allowed to whip up into the vac oil decreasing its viscosity 3) motor starts to spin faster due to thinner oil 4) motor temp Increases due to faster spinning and that heat is transferred to the pump oil 5)volatile start to "burn" off due to increased oil temp. you'll notice the vac pump start to exhaust oil / volatile vapor when using gas ballast for 30+ minutes
man I cant wait to see the apcp grains and that 1st motor test
For freeze drying, just add a valve on your vacuum chamber, pull a vacuum, close the valve, and remove the line, then take the whole thing into a freezer... Or connect the chamber valve up to a Teflon tube and siphon in liquid nitrogen, which will flash freeze everything in the bowl.
For your seal just scratch up the flat rim of the steel bowl, clean with alcohol, and lay a generous bead of Loctite 592 (vacuum rated gasket maker/sealant with Teflon in it), and let it dry for 72 hours. You can use the same stuff to remake your pump gaskets if you want to rebuild it and can't get an affordable gasket set. It's around 30$ a tube of 50ml.
All for some home made DIY freeze drying.
I saw a chiller tech with one of these today lol had to look it up
Heavy as hell, but they pull one heck of a vacuum and are damn near indestructible 👍. My brother in law is in hvac and was blown away by my pump. We're going to use it when we put in my new minisplit unit
I was expecting the "Suck start a Harley" joke at the end. LOL
I've bought repair kits from Capitol Vacuum, they are pretty cheap and everything has worked great so far
The ballast valve should be opened a tiny bit before starting the motor and close few seconds after the motor is running and that’s it. This is on the instructions of my JB 2 stage pump.
Cool machine, great video, thank you.
I normally only pulled 2 to 3 inches mercury when I make P-BAM AP composite rocket motors.P-BAM does also require the fuel to be heated while pulling vacuum witch HTPM doesn't require. Thus most popular and what is mostly sold today. I personally learned using P-BAM and many pro's still use it because it make a little more power and has more creative possibility's when using it. Because of this I used a old steel framed refrigerator as a vacuum chamber. This way I could stand big motors up right and several of them at a time when doing a big pour and still have room for a ceramic electrical heater in the refrigerator.
I just used a kitchen aid mixer ( bread dough mixer) that I covered the electrical brush end of motor with shielding. I mixed fuel batches for 20 to 25 minutes to get good intimate mix. All most impossible to do by hand and make good motors. This should be your next tool to hunt down and modify. Will make the hobby more enjoyable to.
P-BAM binder you do need to degas the fuel but most people today use HTPB witch all ready has a anti shear additive and a degassing additive in it so air bubbles are not introduced as easily. P-BAM doesn't come with these all ready in it. They have to be added. Knowing this it doesn't hurt to pull a small vacuum if you have a ability in the size motors you will be doing regardless of propellant.
Large high horse power motors still require a vacuum even if using HTPB to ensure every bubble gets out to avoid CATO's. I would say as long as the diameter of the motor is under 1 1/4 inches degassing isn't normally necessary. Bigger I for sure would do so.
If you need any help let me know. I probably have any of these special chemicals you need in excess. Only requires a drop or two to reduce shear and a drop or two to remove air bubbles if your particular propellant dont all ready have the additives. They are not expensive just hard to get.
By the way love your vacuum pump! That thing is so cool. I love old shit like that. I turned my fresh air head gear pump I used for spray booth and turned it in a vacuum pump. It works great but is loud as hell. I like how quit yours is! I can pull 29 inches witch is about as good as it gets where I live. Mine is also heavy as hell. Feels like your lifting a lead brick :-)
Sounds like you have quite an awesome setup! You mention P-BAM resin which I've never heard of, do you mean PBAN? I have a gallon of old PBAN resin from about ten years ago. Not sure if it would still be usable today though. I couldn't ever get it to cure properly so I gave up on it. I now have a gallon of HTPB and isonate curative I'll be trying shortly.
I have a similar setup only I used 5/8 lexan on the top of a pressure cooker. A gifted pump from a heart/lung machine to top it off. Up here it will hold 25 inches of vacuum. Not too bad being at 2500 meters eh. I have a video on it. A regular service and this pump will last you for ages. Nothing better than nice clean oil. Fun post bud.
I was waiting for the FMJ reference haha
Use one of these at work (1402 model) to pull down our 1200 ton R12 Carriers after servicing. Change your oil people and they don't die
I have a digit vacuum gauge that I never use anymore. I will test it first to make sure you are getting a freebie, and not a lemon. Its free just pay shipping costs. If you would like the gauge. we can somehow exchange details to make it happen.
If you want to use it for drying, dont forget to have a desucant and a heating pad. For some reason everytime someone diy's a vacuum chamber to use drying, i rarely see something to raise the temperature.
At.001 torr drying is not sped up much by temperature, and a heating of won’t do a thing. With the chamber near absolute vacuum, assuming his sample b is sitting in a dish or smaller vessel on some desiccant, a heating pad will not heat up the sample because the vacuum is such an efficient insulator. In your application truly does require heat, like degassing a non-Newtonian fluid where heat is required to loosen it up, a radiative heat lamp will heat transit the vacuum and heat surfaces
Cool pump btw, I just picked up a 1400b and am looking forward to playing too
@@sstroh32 thank you. That's not something i would have figuted out without several frustrating attempts.
I always wonder what kind of surplus market people refer to. Is it just ebay? I would love some underground info.
I was doing some work for a guy and he threw away that exact same vacuum pump I asked if I could have it and he said sure it's broken. I took it home and was able to fix it . About six months later he asked if he could barrow it and I said sure. After about a month I asked if he was done with it. He told me that it was his and he never threw it away. I discovered he was a drunk and things that he borrowed from other people and later claimed those tools he bought and not theirs.
Oh wow that's a real shame. Sounds like typical alcoholic behavior though. What a bummer, I hope you get your pump back.
When you boil water with an oil pump, you need a dry ice trap or desiccant trap between the chamber and the pump, otherwise you are immediately contaminating your brand new oil with water vapor and you're going to need to change your oil again.
Absolutely true, I need to get a proper cold trap set up. The oil I use is cheap enough I don't mind switching it constantly. This pump has a built in feature that let's it run and remove water from the oil as well
You should have played the spaceballs "suck suck suck" scene as it boiled the water
Dude! I have a 1905 McKinnley Aircraft CO pump that still works great! You can still get the oil from the auto parts store
Holy crap thats awesome!
Any way you can post a picture of it? I'd love to see what a pump that old looks like
Yeah, I have over 7000 ads and crap on my old email address so write me at
[veron.jeff@yahoo.com]
I wish youtube would allow pics but I understand why they don’t. Anyway, I picked my vacuum pump up for $100 about 5 years ago. It still pulls -27Hg of atmospheric pressure.
I tried to reply back to your message on my yahoo. Hope it worked!
@@jeffveron8783 I got the pics! What an awesome machine!
Can i run my 12 volt Holley vane fuel pump as a vacuum pump?
Connect vacuum hose to fuel inlet then pump into the atmosphere.
Abbuse and Neglect! thats what the boys wanna hear!
Use the 2000 PSI O2 compressor in reverse as the vacuum pump. :-)
ElementalMaker Thanks for the video :) also TheKingOfRandom has a good video on homemade gaskets for sucking chambers.
Fun topic. Would it power a vacuum table?
Typically vacuum tables use much higher volume blowers such as a shop vac to hold down work pieces. This pump is very low volume (0.9cfm) but very high ultimate vacuum. This would be more useful to evacuate air conditioning lines before filling with refrigerant or other high vacuum applications.
I forgot to add that the other reason why people still like P-BAM is you can mix it as long as you wish with out it setting up on you with ALL the ingredients in the mix. The heat is what activates and cross links it. NOT chemical reactions taking place.
HTPB you can mix as long as you want if you dont add the curative to it until the last two minutes of mixing. Your under the gun once you do add it.
This very reason is why NASA used P-BAM to make the enormous booster engines to ensure no defects and work-ability time needed.
How does the vinyl hose not collapse under that pressure?
Its thick walled stuff, but still prone to collapsing. I need to get some steel ribbed reinforced hose.
I thought the reason it freezes is because the vaccum pulls away the vapor which lowers vapor pressure and the evaporation of water, with its latent heat pulls so much heat from the water (to evaporate water and raise the vapor pressure) that it just freezes. along the top.
Can it freeze water?
They relied on people being less stupid in the past.😂 cool old pump.
Ain't that the truth! 👍
Cuantos hp y rpm el motor?
Yay another video!! :)
I have an old Ghast, haven't started to rebuild it yet but it is pretty crusty compared to yours.
Ghast makes a rock solid vacuum pump!
Look up on the king of random how to make a proto putty seal. Easy to do and makes a great seal
I'll have to check that out. I wonder if its suitable for high vacuum applications. Guess we'll find out! Thanks for sharing.
... my job has that exact vacuum pump. We use it for epoxy.
The guy from explosionsandfire has a similar one if you need info on the oil or anything you should contact him
Well, that didn’t suck. ;)
put a diffuser on your inlet or that blast of air is going to mess things up.
Working on it!
I was able to acquire a robin rotary vacuum pump from a automotive HVAC refrigerant charging and recovering unit that was being retired from when they got a new unit at my Automotive and Diesel technician training program
Nice score! RobinAire makes some very high quality pumps. If I were to buy a modern pump that's the brand I'd go with.
MOST APCP MAKERS USE A PRESSURE COOKER FOR THE VACUUMM CHAMBER,soory been up watch marathons lol, lack of sleep
For a good 2-3 minutes I was like "damn, AvE's voice sounds slightly off.".
have you seen Extractions and Ire's vacuum pump oil it was even nastier
I just saw it yesterday after another person commented and told me to check it out. I can't believe how nasty that old pump was! Talk about sludge!
Awesome
Great video and build, thank you!
P.S. That's an old Suckulator 9000 system, that uses the hyperformance Black Goo lubricating oil right? LOL!
I think you have the same vacuum pump as extractions&ire
They just don't build stuff the way they used to. This is a well built unit. To get something of similar quality today (assuming it even exists) is cost an arm and leg. Likely the only way you could get similar quality is with a large commercial unit.
Unless it wasn't working at all or performing so badly that it is essentially useless, I wouldn't rebuild it. The rebuilding kits are probably nowhere near the quality of the original.
They still sell this same model today, virtually unchanged aside from a belt guard. It'll run you about $2K to purchase, but still built like a tank!
But is the model unchanged? There may very well be revision updates that includes cheaper components.
The decline in quality of even industrial equipment has been astonishing. Back when I was about 20 in the late 80s I worked in the steel industry and even then the old equipment was way better than the new equipment. We had these 20s/30s era cranes that were in service and used 24/7 that were built like tanks and almost never went down. Then we had 80s cranes that bowed and went down constantly.
@@tarstarkusz apparently the duoseal pumps have remained unchanged in build, design, and quality since their introduction. Even newer ones are known to run forever. They have actually upgraded the seal materials to viton, so they will likely last even longer nowadays.
Slip into the kitchen and grab your wife’s silicone baking tray for your chamber gasket and if she does not notice take the air conditioning compressor off her car , makes a vacuum pump .
that didnt sound like a rotary vane pump sounded like a piston pump to me. just change the oil a cpl times ,maybe run it for an hour or two then change the oil a 2nd time and call it fixed
You forgot to describe the pump as Skookum
It is pronounced differently south of the border so you may have missed it! It is Suuk'um! ;0)
Skookum as frig
2:50 Gas Ballast
Why would you want to degas the epoxy propellant? Looks to me like you skipped an important step - the testing of the propellant with and without degasing.
Air bubbles can cause catastrophic failure of the rocket motor, so degassing is used to prevent that. That'll be a video for coming weeks!
@@ElementalMaker Cant wait! Hurry up 😃
Yeah but if you did rebuild it you could pass it along to someone else after your done with it and they could use it
Seems to pull quite a strong vacuum as is... For now at least. If performance starts degrading I will end up rebuilding it.
Vacuum pump oil usually keeps its colour. Becomes cloudy when gets humidity from gases. Definitely this oil is too old...
Every so often my stomach sounds like that
Mine right now 🤣
Use a pressure cooker for it
Somehow I think your normal vacuum pump has a much smaller clear cylinder... :P ua-cam.com/video/Za7bHIKsxc4/v-deo.html
That oil has become earl. If you put anything with liquids in it in the vacuum chamber you need to put a drier in line to keep moisture out of your pump. Also for freeze drying... dry ice under the chamber should do it.
LOL one of my all time favorite mooovies!
@@ElementalMaker well I couldn't find a cock pump song so... I had to make do.
your funny! but a great you tube show
Man that old vacuum pump looks pretty similar in design to Explosions&fire2's pump
Different company
But heeeyyy
Unfortunately though, the poor chemist has no gas ballast
For the years of cancerous solvent vapors they've pumped through the unfortunate old boy.
Not that I know what I'm talking about
Ah yes. The ol suck bowl
Wow! That's a lot of ads in one video, guy!
You should be able to limit it to one ad at the beginning only. I had to watch three to get through this video on my phone.
That looks like normal oil to me. Anyway I would just pour in some olive oil :)
Well that´s a great way to ruin it^^
When you want to remove gasses from somewhere, it´s a good thing if your oil doesn´t release any gas itself. Plus olive oil will get really nasty over time, especially if it gets hot.
@elementalmaker, I have a digital bluetooth micron gauge for reading accurate vacuums that I would donate to you if you want to contact me.
Hi Bill! I truly appreciate your generous offer! That would be amazing as I have some high vacuum projects planned. My email is *******************
Email sent
Like before i watch the vid cuz i know its a quilty stuff
Edit : sucks very hard 😂😂😂 srry
There is no possible way you will ever pull 1 micron with that setup. The pump itself might go to 50 microns if you are lucky.
Pump is rated to pull 0.1 micron. Of course this chamber setup is leakier than a sieve, but with a proper chamber many folks use these pumps for fusors, which require a pretty high vacuum.
@@ElementalMaker- I don't mean to be argumentative, love your channel, watch it all the time, , but I've been for . ;-)
My guess is that the pump is rated for 0.1 inch of water, which is 186 microns of mercury (the term that vacuum guys are referring to when they say "microns").
A two stage vane or piston pump just can't get the low pressures like a diffusion or turbo pump can get. Not even close! I use a 2 stage robinaire pump rated at 35 microns as a *backing* pump to my real, true, vacuum pump, which is a diffusion pump, because I can't afford a turbo pump. I can get 50 microns at the robinaire on a good day and fractions of a micron at the diffusion pump if I am very careful about my test setup. But even then, a special micron gauge is required to make the measurements. A dial gauge (directly readable) is impossible, since 1 atmosphere is 760,000 microns and 50/760000 would not be perceptible to the human eye on a dial guage.
There has to be a units mistake here. There just has to be.
I'd love to reach clarification and understanding on this, but will continue to hit like on all future videos either way.
@@FelonyVideos no worries. Always enjoy a good discussion. You can see the specs of the pump here welchvacuum.com/products/duoseal-1400#product-specifications. It's listed ultimate pressure is 0.1 micron, or 1x10-4 torr. I don't believe this particular pump could ever reach that, given it's age and condition. Even with a rebuild the steel mating surfaces are probably not adequate, but that's the listed pressure from welch. And given their scientific pedigree I do believe their data. I really want to find an old hastings vacuum gauge and test how far I can push this old pump.
@@ElementalMaker- Well dang, you're right! I'll eat my words on this one! Appreciate the response and agree, welch knows what they are doing. Now I want one of those pumps!
@@FelonyVideos yessir I'm sure back in the day this pump could pull one hell of a vacuum. I wonder why this two stage pump can pull such a strong vacuum compared to some others in the market. Maybe it comes down to part tolerance.
I actually have two vacuum pumps i wanna get rid of any one interested, dm for more information.
What model of pumps are they? I'm definitely interested
@@ElementalMaker welch 1400 duoseal vacuum pump
So bare wires ..... Meh ........... Open pulley .... "Got to fix that 'cause of COSH!" ;0)
Both will be fixed in short order. I dont mind a good electric shock on occasion though LOL
So easy to change the oil. Stop talking about it and just DO IT fella.
Are you AVE ??? Seriously
No I am most definitely not AVE.
Blah Blah Blah Have a Point and get to it. Massive waste of time.