The principal at a high school where I worked as a teacher 20 years ago asked me to recommend where he should put a few wheel bender bike racks. (I biked to work so I was the go to "bike guy".) I gave him a list of 11 locations ranked from most desirable to least. He chose #11... behind the school, out of sight, on muddy ground, beside the festering cafeteria garbage bins. His logic: "No one wants to drive past a school and see a bunch of kids bikes out front". When the racks fell into disuse shortly thereafter, he claimed vindication, saying, "Good thing we didn't buy those more expensive racks, ... no one is even using them." O.m.g.... My message would be, ya, we need to promote changes, but pick your battlegrounds and don't waste time with dolts.
Ooooof that story sounds so familiar: so many examples of “look! No one's swimming across the river; so glad we never built a bridge!” edit: do you mind sharing what high school this was at? If not, totally fine! Just curious if it's in London. I'd love to do a video on that haha
@BenDurham jp2 london Ontario. I don't mind sharing that info since it's semi public knowledge that I worked there. (I.e., after teaching >2000 kids, it'd be pretty easy for someone to find out that I worked there most of my career.) I'm much less inclined to name the principal because it wouldn't matter and doing so would appear as personally vindictive or vengeful.
removing barriers and enabling independence for kids is so on point. an elder person said to me once: "you feel the cold more when you get older". leave no regrets, remove these obstacles and foster life long enjoyment of the great outdoors!
Just before I moved to London (just before Covid) I took my old bike to the grocery store regularly in Brampton. BUT ... I didn't have to ride on a street AT ALL. (There are bike paths throughout "Bramalea" that go almost everywhere). Move to London, get an eBike and ... the first HOUR I was riding it a person in a pickup truck "brushed" me into the curb. On a 40-km-per-hour residential street with SCHOOLS on it. I'm sure if I had been 12 years old in the same place on a bike they would not have done that. I've tried "utility cycling" - the grocery stores DON'T support it, having put crappy cheap bike racks out by the employee smoking area (oh HOW APPEALING Food Basics, No Frills and company!). Where my $2K eBike is out of sight if someone wants to try and steal it. And the painted "suicide gutters" like the one on Commissioners Road, that just ENDS? London council is NOT trying to promote utility cycling as far as I can see; there are bylaws forcing businesses to provide for cars; bikes ... not so much.
I lived near Bramalea and Bovaird from 2006 - 2011. Those bike paths weren't there during that time. There was a north/south path that I'd take that went past Professor's Lake, but it was annoying because none of the curbs were lowered at street crossings. I literally bought a dual sport hybrid bike with an 80mm front shock to be my "curb hopper" during that time. I'm glad to hear that Brampton is evolving.
@@FredChagnon Actually, that's more when city council started "cheapening out". Original Bramalea (before the Bill Davis forced amalgamation) was a "planned city" and had great bike paths. And they followed the water flow under the major roads.
We had this, too and it helped A LOT!! Our current home insurance is silly and doesn't have ebike coverage which is bummer, but the Pinhead Locks and the fact that we haven't had issues after tens of thousands of KMs ridden on our ebikes gives us a bit more comfort! :P
If you as a car driver KNEW that Masonville Mall was a 'high risk" location for getting your car stolen, you wouldn't GO there, right? WHY do they think you would go there on a bike. Or White Oaks? There is no even moderately safe place to park a bike at White Oaks - you can tell NOBODY with ANY influence whatever in the management company rides a bike.
Awesome podcast => great points on road safety & bike theft, Fred. Bike theft is the main reason i don't commute. The idea of a secured bike parking blows my mind ! I have seen the bike lockers but never used them because of location, which is usually not near my destination.
I firmly believe that if we solve the parking problem we'll put more bikes on the road, which will add to the pressure to solve the infrastructure problem next. All the bike lanes in the world don't matter if I can't get off my bike at my destination. Offer secure bike lockers as a cost -- surrounded by free bike racks as a choice alternative. That should appeal to the masses. That will create an entire bike parking that is conspicuous and theremore more secure. Those bike lockers could generate revenue for private properties, in addition to the added foot traffic they'd be bringing in anyway. Most private property plazas can afford to giver over 3-5 car parking spaces for this alternative modality. We just need to make this normal and expected.
I cycle to the shops but only because I can do a click and collect service, I don’t want to have to cycle to the store with locks that take up space in my bags and still risk having it stolen. I would absolutely recommend to anyone cycling to do a click and collect order, it may look a bit weird to some people but it saves so much hassle.
Great discussion. Guys, people drive $60k+ cars and don't think twice about leaving them in a parking lot. Agree we all feel better massively uparmoring with bike lockers, but ultimately with great numbers, and insurance industry changes, we will overcome the terror of walking away from an expensive bike left behind in a public space. We have secured bike rooms in some Southern California schools, but that will not hold as soon as an e-bike fire burns down a school. I think we'll come up with fantastic ways to secure bikes. We should be working really hard for MAMILs to shift their attention away from sport and towards utility. They are often the folks in our cycling communuity who are complaining that bike lanes don't work for them. Maybe drop the obsession with overpriced exotic bikes, but admittedly, e-bikes will always represent a more expensive, stealable bike.
The problem is not that enthusiasts have the wrong bike. Many cycling enthusiasts (call them MAMILs if you wish, but that's only a small portion of enthusiasts) would accept having a more utility-like bike to add to their stable. The perspective I was bringing up here is that they choose not to willingly engage in vehicular cycling, and choose not to park in risky places. This is a motonormativity problem. Require bike parking as you do car parking for all properties, and require bike lanes as you do car lanes for all roads, and the problem is solved.
On the issue of bike parking and theft, I must do it if I am to continue living my life, so I don't dwell on the fear since I can't really change much about my actions. The fear is only a distraction at that point. Plus rationally I know that even if I lost a bike to theft every single year I'd still be coming out well ahead financially over having a car. That said, improvements to parking and security would definitely be welcome
I like this pov. Boiling it down to finances is a great point especially if it's a choice between bike or car. For me it's not either/or unfortunately. I'm going to have a car regardless. I just don't want the car to be my default mode of transport. I don't ride my bike to save money - I ride it because I feel better doing it, and I feel better about my impact on the world around me. Financially, I'm only saving on gas when I can take a bike. I don't think that tilts the financial argument in my favour enough to make it worth the anxiety-inducing threat of loss creates.
Basically the TVP is the one amazing thing about London 😅 When I was younger I used to bike on country roads to different citys. Long distance travel and honestly I felt a lot safer than city roads drivers are aggressive in the city 😅
I'm a utilitarian cyclist. I have had a bike stolen. The only thing to do is put as many obstacles in front of a thief as possible. I have multiple locks - I lock the front and back wheels to the frame, and I lock the frame to the bike rack or ring-and-post with a) a u-lock and b) a chain. Too many deterrents, so hopefully the thief will move on to an easier target. When I ride to work, I do leave it parked for the entire 8-hour workday. Of course I also check at lunch that it's still there, but frankly I have no other choice. There's secure bike parking from the city of Toronto very close to my office, but there's a very long waitlist for it. I've been on that waitlist for 8 months.
Scoped out the bike rack at the new Media Arts building at community college last night. They were bolted down with exposed, non-welded, hex nuts. So clearly not a theft savvy installation.
Where I live in Minnesota very few stores have any kind of bike rack and if you give the businesses feedback about this there is a lot of irritation and hostility…… it’s very difficult to use a bike for transportation…… and people are clueless……
Hell driving in London even car drivers take their lives in their hands. Even outside the city, London is notorious for its aggressive drivers. Can't fault the bikers for feeling unsafe.
The sentiment "why should," is the ultimate doomer mindset. It's interesting how the question is answered in the video tho when the idea of a complete network is discussed. We need to pick a bike everytime not only so we're one less car, but to also show and advocate for the infrastructure we deserve as everyday cyclists.
Being nice won't save your life .I ride slower than most recreational cyclists so I ride on sidewalks only when it's far too dangerous in traffic. If anyone complains I just tell them to shut up .
As a 60km per day all season Canadian cycling commuter I'd like to chime in. Every MAMIL wears Spandex. Don't try to deny it. Simply put, Spandex is the generic name for the synthetic fiber known for its exceptional elasticity, while Lycra is a brand name for Spandex produced by the company formerly known as DuPont. Ride free. Unless you're racing, there's no need to ride in Spandex. It's unsightly, it's inconvenient for commuting purposes, and it's over priced. Just wear street clothes, keep your speed down, and enjoy the ride. Commuters in spandex look like douches and wannabe Lance Armstrongs. Sorry, someone had to say it.
I actually mention in the discussion that when I commute I am wearing plain clothes. (59:23) When I'm riding recreationally, cycling kit does serve a purpose. It's sweat wicking, so it serves a comfort purpose. It's form fitting and therefore doesn't chafe or rub with the repetitive movement of pedaling thereby leaving abrasions on my skin. And it also reduces drag, which is more efficient (different than speed, and matters to me). Randonneuring isn't racing, but there is a time limit on those rides we're required to stay under. And comfort and efficiency both are paramount on a 200 - 1200km ride. So whether I bike for transport or sport, I dress for the ride accordingly.
![The Very Best Of Our “Super Bike Vs…” Series [2+ Hour Compilation]](/img/n.gif)
The principal at a high school where I worked as a teacher 20 years ago asked me to recommend where he should put a few wheel bender bike racks. (I biked to work so I was the go to "bike guy".)
I gave him a list of 11 locations ranked from most desirable to least. He chose #11... behind the school, out of sight, on muddy ground, beside the festering cafeteria garbage bins. His logic: "No one wants to drive past a school and see a bunch of kids bikes out front".
When the racks fell into disuse shortly thereafter, he claimed vindication, saying, "Good thing we didn't buy those more expensive racks, ... no one is even using them."
O.m.g....
My message would be, ya, we need to promote changes, but pick your battlegrounds and don't waste time with dolts.
Confirmation bias. Hide them around back by the trash, because no one will use them. See? No one is using them. Good thing they're by the trash.
Ooooof that story sounds so familiar: so many examples of “look! No one's swimming across the river; so glad we never built a bridge!”
edit: do you mind sharing what high school this was at? If not, totally fine! Just curious if it's in London. I'd love to do a video on that haha
@BenDurham jp2 london Ontario. I don't mind sharing that info since it's semi public knowledge that I worked there. (I.e., after teaching >2000 kids, it'd be pretty easy for someone to find out that I worked there most of my career.) I'm much less inclined to name the principal because it wouldn't matter and doing so would appear as personally vindictive or vengeful.
removing barriers and enabling independence for kids is so on point. an elder person said to me once: "you feel the cold more when you get older". leave no regrets, remove these obstacles and foster life long enjoyment of the great outdoors!
Good job guys! You hit some really good points.
There is no way I would lock up my gravel bike while shopping. I would be looking out the window every 2 minutes.
Just before I moved to London (just before Covid) I took my old bike to the grocery store regularly in Brampton. BUT ... I didn't have to ride on a street AT ALL. (There are bike paths throughout "Bramalea" that go almost everywhere).
Move to London, get an eBike and ... the first HOUR I was riding it a person in a pickup truck "brushed" me into the curb. On a 40-km-per-hour residential street with SCHOOLS on it. I'm sure if I had been 12 years old in the same place on a bike they would not have done that.
I've tried "utility cycling" - the grocery stores DON'T support it, having put crappy cheap bike racks out by the employee smoking area (oh HOW APPEALING Food Basics, No Frills and company!). Where my $2K eBike is out of sight if someone wants to try and steal it. And the painted "suicide gutters" like the one on Commissioners Road, that just ENDS?
London council is NOT trying to promote utility cycling as far as I can see; there are bylaws forcing businesses to provide for cars; bikes ... not so much.
I lived near Bramalea and Bovaird from 2006 - 2011. Those bike paths weren't there during that time. There was a north/south path that I'd take that went past Professor's Lake, but it was annoying because none of the curbs were lowered at street crossings. I literally bought a dual sport hybrid bike with an 80mm front shock to be my "curb hopper" during that time.
I'm glad to hear that Brampton is evolving.
@@FredChagnon Actually, that's more when city council started "cheapening out". Original Bramalea (before the Bill Davis forced amalgamation) was a "planned city" and had great bike paths. And they followed the water flow under the major roads.
A $100 rider on our home insurance to insure our e-bikes helped me overcome the physiological barrier to parking anxiety.
We had this, too and it helped A LOT!! Our current home insurance is silly and doesn't have ebike coverage which is bummer, but the Pinhead Locks and the fact that we haven't had issues after tens of thousands of KMs ridden on our ebikes gives us a bit more comfort! :P
If you as a car driver KNEW that Masonville Mall was a 'high risk" location for getting your car stolen, you wouldn't GO there, right?
WHY do they think you would go there on a bike. Or White Oaks? There is no even moderately safe place to park a bike at White Oaks - you can tell NOBODY with ANY influence whatever in the management company rides a bike.
Awesome podcast => great points on road safety & bike theft, Fred. Bike theft is the main reason i don't commute. The idea of a secured bike parking blows my mind ! I have seen the bike lockers but never used them because of location, which is usually not near my destination.
I firmly believe that if we solve the parking problem we'll put more bikes on the road, which will add to the pressure to solve the infrastructure problem next.
All the bike lanes in the world don't matter if I can't get off my bike at my destination.
Offer secure bike lockers as a cost -- surrounded by free bike racks as a choice alternative. That should appeal to the masses. That will create an entire bike parking that is conspicuous and theremore more secure. Those bike lockers could generate revenue for private properties, in addition to the added foot traffic they'd be bringing in anyway. Most private property plazas can afford to giver over 3-5 car parking spaces for this alternative modality.
We just need to make this normal and expected.
I cycle to the shops but only because I can do a click and collect service, I don’t want to have to cycle to the store with locks that take up space in my bags and still risk having it stolen. I would absolutely recommend to anyone cycling to do a click and collect order, it may look a bit weird to some people but it saves so much hassle.
Great discussion. Guys, people drive $60k+ cars and don't think twice about leaving them in a parking lot. Agree we all feel better massively uparmoring with bike lockers, but ultimately with great numbers, and insurance industry changes, we will overcome the terror of walking away from an expensive bike left behind in a public space.
We have secured bike rooms in some Southern California schools, but that will not hold as soon as an e-bike fire burns down a school. I think we'll come up with fantastic ways to secure bikes. We should be working really hard for MAMILs to shift their attention away from sport and towards utility. They are often the folks in our cycling communuity who are complaining that bike lanes don't work for them. Maybe drop the obsession with overpriced exotic bikes, but admittedly, e-bikes will always represent a more expensive, stealable bike.
The problem is not that enthusiasts have the wrong bike. Many cycling enthusiasts (call them MAMILs if you wish, but that's only a small portion of enthusiasts) would accept having a more utility-like bike to add to their stable. The perspective I was bringing up here is that they choose not to willingly engage in vehicular cycling, and choose not to park in risky places.
This is a motonormativity problem. Require bike parking as you do car parking for all properties, and require bike lanes as you do car lanes for all roads, and the problem is solved.
On the issue of bike parking and theft, I must do it if I am to continue living my life, so I don't dwell on the fear since I can't really change much about my actions. The fear is only a distraction at that point. Plus rationally I know that even if I lost a bike to theft every single year I'd still be coming out well ahead financially over having a car.
That said, improvements to parking and security would definitely be welcome
I like this pov. Boiling it down to finances is a great point especially if it's a choice between bike or car.
For me it's not either/or unfortunately. I'm going to have a car regardless. I just don't want the car to be my default mode of transport. I don't ride my bike to save money - I ride it because I feel better doing it, and I feel better about my impact on the world around me.
Financially, I'm only saving on gas when I can take a bike. I don't think that tilts the financial argument in my favour enough to make it worth the anxiety-inducing threat of loss creates.
Basically the TVP is the one amazing thing about London 😅
When I was younger I used to bike on country roads to different citys. Long distance travel and honestly I felt a lot safer than city roads drivers are aggressive in the city 😅
I'm a utilitarian cyclist. I have had a bike stolen. The only thing to do is put as many obstacles in front of a thief as possible. I have multiple locks - I lock the front and back wheels to the frame, and I lock the frame to the bike rack or ring-and-post with a) a u-lock and b) a chain. Too many deterrents, so hopefully the thief will move on to an easier target. When I ride to work, I do leave it parked for the entire 8-hour workday. Of course I also check at lunch that it's still there, but frankly I have no other choice. There's secure bike parking from the city of Toronto very close to my office, but there's a very long waitlist for it. I've been on that waitlist for 8 months.
An 8 month+ waitlist for something should be a signal that there's a supply and demand imbalance.
Very insightful interview. Interesting to see how the "other side" thinks and feels.
Great talk ben we need bike parking
Scoped out the bike rack at the new Media Arts building at community college last night. They were bolted down with exposed, non-welded, hex nuts. So clearly not a theft savvy installation.
Where I live in Minnesota very few stores have any kind of bike rack and if you give the businesses feedback about this there is a lot of irritation and hostility…… it’s very difficult to use a bike for transportation…… and people are clueless……
Every day I ride in London ,I have close encounters.If Ford removes bike lanes take up the full lane then we will see what vehicle drivers think .
Hell driving in London even car drivers take their lives in their hands. Even outside the city, London is notorious for its aggressive drivers. Can't fault the bikers for feeling unsafe.
The sentiment "why should," is the ultimate doomer mindset. It's interesting how the question is answered in the video tho when the idea of a complete network is discussed. We need to pick a bike everytime not only so we're one less car, but to also show and advocate for the infrastructure we deserve as everyday cyclists.
Being nice won't save your life .I ride slower than most recreational cyclists so I ride on sidewalks only when it's far too dangerous in traffic. If anyone complains I just tell them to shut up .
Huh. Interesting.
As a 60km per day all season Canadian cycling commuter I'd like to chime in. Every MAMIL wears Spandex. Don't try to deny it. Simply put, Spandex is the generic name for the synthetic fiber known for its exceptional elasticity, while Lycra is a brand name for Spandex produced by the company formerly known as DuPont. Ride free. Unless you're racing, there's no need to ride in Spandex. It's unsightly, it's inconvenient for commuting purposes, and it's over priced. Just wear street clothes, keep your speed down, and enjoy the ride. Commuters in spandex look like douches and wannabe Lance Armstrongs. Sorry, someone had to say it.
Why do you care what clothes other people wear? But yeah, i would never ride to work in my cycling kit.
@@goldenretriever6261 I don't care. Wear what you like. That's just my opinion.
I actually mention in the discussion that when I commute I am wearing plain clothes. (59:23)
When I'm riding recreationally, cycling kit does serve a purpose. It's sweat wicking, so it serves a comfort purpose. It's form fitting and therefore doesn't chafe or rub with the repetitive movement of pedaling thereby leaving abrasions on my skin. And it also reduces drag, which is more efficient (different than speed, and matters to me).
Randonneuring isn't racing, but there is a time limit on those rides we're required to stay under. And comfort and efficiency both are paramount on a 200 - 1200km ride.
So whether I bike for transport or sport, I dress for the ride accordingly.