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This was an awesome demo of high frequencies issues. Your Mikko Player product is an absolutely amazing product. I hope you come out with a few more addons for it at some point. Your IRs are absolutely the best available. Thank you!
This video is so helpful, I've had the issue of that sizzle in my tone for ages but had no idea exactly what it was or how to describe it. Thanks so much :)
Mikko, thank you for this video. The things you talk here really changed how my guitars sound on a mix. I've tried A LOT of IR's but this changed my mind about them, and how to identify a good IR from a bad one(for the application needed). Now to me, nearly doesn't matter what amp am using, the cab IR rules above them and can get a great tone from every amp. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!
Really Interesting video, I'd be happy to watch more of these nerdier ones! Also good tip to highpass the sound, to not get initially distracted by the low end.
I don't know how you guys did it, but your AMPED series is the best thing to happen to guitar tone since Jim Marshall created the first amp for Jimi Hendrix!
Dear Mikko, thank you for all this great content !! I would like to raise your attention on something important to my eyes and wants to make a suggestion. IRs are the most fantastic things that happened to guitar players and as well the worst. I experienced going the rabbit hole of IRs and it was a nightmare !!! I spent hours, days, years auditioning IRs, playing with the Cartesian mixer of STL tones Libra. I was all about 57s with 160s with 7b... Instead of playing and enjoying I was in a constant search for a better tone. And after all this work (suffering) I realized that the best IRs combinations I created barely matched the mixes that you already served me on a golden plate. I have made a short selection of my favorite IRs and I wish to stick to it. I am feeling sick today when I think about hundred of IRs files and I am scared to buy any new IR pack because I don't want to be in this nightmare again. I suggest you to sell two version of your IRs pack. One "best of", with your best mixes and another one "Diamond", "Gold" or "Pro" version with the hundreds of single files for music professional, studio people, or all the people who like to tweak and believe they can make better mixes than your (and have the time). Please Mikko, you have the power to make a big change in the business and distribution model . If you would do this I would buy all your IR packs "Best of" because I won't be scared anymore. Thank you for reading and keep on Rockin !!!!
I too get lost in the endless sifting of IRs. I have my few select amp sims that I like, but IRs seem to always take me down the time-wasting tunnel, and at the end of the day I've tried 700 IRs and written nothing. It's a horrible affliction.
This was really fun! Thanks for the insightful look at the different IRs. That ANGR pack is calling to me, though it might be because I just got a Fireball 100....
Thanks, great comparison and information relating to the cabs and speaker readings, timely as early this morning I was auditioning the Roots 2 ver, nice with actual cab and miking position options, going to grab today! You asked about other video topics so maybe one on setting the right input and output levels of the amps along with watching your DAW channel levels. You amps tones are very customizable and want to make sure the guitar players out there do not bypass your hard work because a preset didn't produce the right tones for specific guitar configuration! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thanks so much! The next step would be to actually use a limiter after the IR to balance the output volume for the IRs. Sounds even more awful but helps with hearing the nasty stuff.
Really cool idea. Something I've found is that the (sometimes harsh) center mic position is punchier -- faster dynamic response. My experience is that condenser mics (especially large diaphragm) generally have a more pleasant high end, so using a centered mic position isn't as problematic and still allows for a faster dynamic response. Another finding is that a bit of power tube distortion on something like a 1959 or 2203 circuit removes most harshness right from the source, though that's a different use case. Curious whether you've come to similar conclusions, or if your experience has been much different?
Great video, please make more like these! One that I would love to see would also be one in which you show in detail the mic placements you use to achieve these irs
Thanks and that's a great idea! The reality is much like I said in the video - you just have to keep on searching for that good mic position. I have a custom Dynamount that I can control in front of the speaker when the cab is loud in the live room so I have the luxury of actually being able to listen to the sound and even monitor the graphs while I'm moving the microphone. Huge time saver... back in the day I actually built my own robot from wood so I could do this when Dynamount didn't exist yet. 😄
Thanks so much! Something that I wish I made more clear in the video - different mics work better with some cabs than others so you could repeat this same process with f.ex. the 160 mic and get completely different results. The 57 is likely the most popular mic though. ☺
I for one almost always cut a couple dB at around 5k if I’m using a Mesa or Marshall cab, but my favorite cabinet sound is actually the Fortin Cali stock cabinet, it has a pretty early roll off and I think that’s what I like about it. The main upper mid presence frequency in that cabinet is around 2-3k so it automatically cuts in the mix without being bright and fizzy
@@mlsoundlab I will do, I always found the Nameless wayyyy too scooped but that probably has to do with the amp itself because the ML midrange is usually quite strong lol
tfw I am feeling called out now since all I use are the pre-made mixes! I use the ANGR, MEGA TR, and Blackback mixes at present and they are very nice but the ANGR is definitely the hardest one to work with I find. So far the MEGA TR-THRASH and TR-NEUTRAL are probably my favorite IRs to date they're just so good no matter how I use it! I will need to experiment more with dedicated unmixed IRs as I think its arguably limiting me probably. HOWEVER I feel these pre-made mixes save me time and get me playing hence why I fall back to old faithful MEGA-TR usually, they sound great and that's all that matters at the end of the day for a bedroom warrior like me. I definitely want to get that PR and MARS MOFO packs some day, they seem niiiiiiice!
The Mix IRs are always a super safe bet - they're pretty much all designed to give you balanced tones from the get-go. Taking time out of arranging your workflow can be the difference between getting a banger riff recorded or not. No shame in using the pre-made mixes at all! -Kai
I’ve always been an ENGL guy. When you put the ANGR pack I went straight into it, but somehow I couldn’t get the high end right for me. Then I bought the Mikko version and I’ve made a couple of IRs which are my go to pair with my ENGL Preamp. Lately I’ve been in a Mesa Mark mode and I always pair it with the MEGA Trad. I mix the 57-C with the 121-A. Match made in Heaven! Mikko, btw. We (I) need an ANGR Cream Cab Pack please!! 😅
My wife was asking about what is an Ayyar, the Ayyar... Anyways, great video! I have another method: first I make an intense session of looking for nice IRs. Make a collection of excellent IRs in a way you can quickly switch in between them. Take a huge break after the selection (very important). Now listen to your mix together and start swapping the IRs. This way you can trick ear fatigue and also avoid the "it sounds great in solo" problem.
Absolutely! Ear fatigue and taking breaks is important. Also once you have a few IRs that you really like soloed you put them in a mix and it usually helps choosing the best one.
@@mlsoundlab just by listening to the low cut guitars for a couple of minutes made the original versions sound ridiculously boomy and buckety. Which they were not.
That's a good demonstration of the roll off, but not in all instances you want that roll off. The ANGR cab is great, but quite dark. The ORNG is one of my favorites... Maybe not the best roll off, but more balanced than the ANGR. Depends on the situation I guess.
Good point - I should point out that when I was still gigging (tiny pubs) my rig was an ORNG amp into an ORNG 4x12 and that was "my sound" and I still love it today. You can't sound like ORNG without having that steep roll-off. The demand for that roll-off increases with the higher gain you use. The ORNG actually has a smooth roll-off but it's a very steep one and soloed it can sound unpleasant but in the mix it's not really a problem.
Amped series is a Top Gun of ampsims, no other one for me at least when Im recording. In the other hand: Mikko2 is a one step beyond. Even the free stuff rocks.
The trick with all distortion tones with irs is using the high cut I have that mofo pack Have to with that as well. I don’t do it globally because I like some of those hz with the clean
Love videos like this and also your products. I've been in touch with you before about IR tips. Are the IR:s in the Mikko-plugin as pure as separate IR:s, if it's a kind of sound "compromise" with the plugin (I've both)? Cheers from Stockholm.
Both sound totally raw and awesome, there's no compromise to the quality either way, just the flexibility and functionality is improved with the MIKKO plugin! 🙏 -Kai
That was pretty enlightening, Mikko. I'm looking for a cab with the best articulation/definition, been really tempted by the Matias Kupiainen cab. Any suggestions?
Hi Diego! It was an honor to capture "the actual Stratovarius cab". That's the Bgnr Uber Cab Pack. The magic of that cab for me is blending the two speaker types. Following the theme of this video though - if you're after the best definition I'd look for a cab with that long frequency roll-off rather than a steep roll-off that happens higher in the frequencies. PR-M75, Mega Traditional or Mega Oversize are the ones that really jump to my mind immediately. Also the ANGR has that huge sweetspot that I demoed in the video. That really enables you to get more brightness out of the cab while it's still quite pleasant in the mix. Ultimately if you have a pleasant high end on the IR you can absolutely crank the presence on your amp and get the definition that you're after.
@@mlsoundlab Many thanks!! I was messing around with the Mikko Player and loved it. The presence boost worked wonders even with basic IRs, I'm definitely grabbing at least of couple or IR packs 😸
I bought your ir a like 6 months ago and I didn’t actually use them for a bit like until last week and honestly the one I had loaded from a friend is static x that ir blows all your away and it’s just balanced I’m gonna try some more and make some tones but I thought yours would sound better. Is there any ways you can make an ir to load onto the fractal in the dyna cab section so we can move the mic around
I've actually done this on forums before - I probably need to do a video about it as well. Now... this will vary based on the IR shoot method so even if my IRs null it definitely does not mean that everyone's IRs null. I've spent years getting that null sound as quiet as I possibly can. 😁
Liked it, but I won't lie in terms that I may ask the question that's floating in thin air, which is... Are darker Cabs better? (3Khz and going down the street already could be consider super early cutting somehow)
Definitely depends a little bit on the mix. Alnico speakers tend to have the longest and earliest frequency roll-off so you can try that extreme.... damnit I haven't released those IRs yet. Oh well.. There's a fine line when it comes to this. I find that if the roll-off starts happening after 4khz then it's going to be a bit too bright and many times people start to EQ the highs of the guitar. Even in this instance most the cabs really started to get most of that roll-off closer to 3-4k.
You make a very solid point here. I just bought the mofo pack. I just went through this process with the HBE axe model checking in and out of a rock mix. I noticed that The Freedman pack I bought from you two weeks ago has quite excessive high frequency and not such a linear roll off on the cab it purports to require no tweaking from. The mofo pack sounds great on it though. However, it has a dip in the low mids which makes it sound lethargic compared to the Ownhammer (r)evolution Marshall packs. I’m curious as to your thoughts on the low mid dip by comparison. Was it by design or did you do that to be more mix ready with Bass? I really want it to be the winner, but I am ultimately going to use my ears.
This topic is actually something I've discussed with Nolly and this is likely a topic where he and I disagree the most when it comes to guitar tone. (Don't worry! We can be friends an not agree on tone. :P) To summarize - he mostly mics up top speakers and I mostly mic up bottom speakers. One of the most important captures for the majority of people is the 57 alone. To get a full focused sound with a 57 alone I believe it must be one of the bottom speakers but if I prefer some of the top speakers I'll actually turn the cab around standing upside down and mic up the top speakers as if they were bottom speakers. Don't quote me on this but I believe Nolly mics up the top speakers to get rid of this low mid dip. I would argue that this low mid dip is something that is not a crucial part in guitar tone. It's already a part of guitar low end which is not a prominent thing in a mix (there's plenty of instruments that want this space like bass guitar f.ex.) while the top end roll-off we're talking about here is one of the most important things that could potentially ruin a mix. Also I do see the hole in the spectrum analyzer but I do not hear a problem. That low mid dip is a part of some of the best guitar tones ever and it's "supposed to be there". So use spectrum analyzers to aid your hearing rather than mixing with your eyes. ☺
@@mlsoundlab Thank you for your response. I’m glad that this actually is a thoughtful point. I use my ears and graphs while mixing. Of course, I was working out a live tone mostly at the time. I will be sure to go back to the mofo in upcoming proper studio recordings and A/B. I figured it was there as a natural way to leave room for bass.
@@mlsoundlab"To summarize - he mostly mics up top speakers and I mostly mic up bottom speakers. One of the most important captures for the majority of people is the 57 alone. To get a full focused sound with a 57 alone I believe it must be one of the bottom speakers but if I prefer some of the top speakers I'll actually turn the cab around standing upside down and mic up the top speakers as if they were bottom speakers. Don't quote me on this but I believe Nolly mics up the top speakers to get rid of this low mid dip." Very interesting !
41k mono ? what frequency should be for diy music from a laptop to daw as a bedroom producer, what do you think? The impulses just weigh quite a lot. I want to clean my computer.
With regards to this video what are your thoughts on eminence speakers like Governor and Swamp Thing with have earlier high frequency roll off? Thanks!
I did the cabinet section for the Neural DSP Omega Granophyre plugin and the cab had two types of Eminence prototype speakers. I'm not 100% sure but I believe one of them was the DV77 and the other one was the VM1265 but like I said they were prototypes. Both of those speakers had a very prominent 5khz thing going on that I couldn't get rid of while keeping a 57 focussed sounding. I would say that high end is likelier to do with the speakers than the cabinet. I'd use something like an M160 as the main mic on those rather than a 57. I did a big comparison over a decade ago between different speaker manufacturers and decided Celestion is the sound that we're all used to hearing and that's what I'll focus on. It may be a good thing to revisit this comparison.
Hey Mikko, I’m planning on buying your Mars mofo pack. Im going to be using it in my line 6 pod go, I play shows here in Nicaragua with my band so it will be mostly dedicated to live use only. Are your IRs mix ready ? Do I need to tweak something before playing with the guys (drum, bass, another guitar player). Bests 🎸
With a great source tone, you shouldn't need to do any mixing at all - the FOH engineer will make adjustments if necessary, but there's nothing you'll need to do from your end. All of our IR packs come with "Mix" files - these are multi-mic blends, built for balanced sounds that should work in most use cases. -Kai
Those are both stock Cubase plugins! "Reverence" is the IR loader and "Frequency" is the EQ plugin which I'm using for the low cut and spectrum analyzer. Amazing stock Cubase plugins.
I've seen the video and I think it's interesting. After a few struggles with V30 speakers from 2005 forward I've started to avoid newer speakers in general. I actually specifically bought four Anniversary V30s (for a potential IR collection) after hearing they were "better now" but I didn't like them enough to make a pack of them at that point... something that usually does happen when I buy something that I really like. My newer V30s actually have a nice smooth roll-off but if I remember correctly that roll-off started from like 5khz or something and if I compared it to any of my golden era 90s-2004 V30s I wouldn't even call them the same speaker. In Glenn's video they did not seem too bright though so it could be just like it was around 2000.. every year sounds completely different and there's no way of knowing what you get without trying them out. Two of our Mega packs have speakers from the same year and they sound nothing alike......... Also there's the fact that I have Greenbacks that sound closer to my 2000 era V30s than my newer V30s. You hear a lot of things from these companies mostly saying that they've never changed anything which makes me think it has to do with something they have no control over like f.ex. cone manufacturing and the thickness or material of the cone. It's all random. It's very likely that with guitar cabs you will never know what you get. The best bet is still to make sure your V30s are from 2004 or earlier. 2005 is where things turned bad.
@@djabthrash yeah that’s very accurate and quite easy answer. But as I know there is a difference for example in Kemper’s and Helix tech. I’ve tried some IR’s that have very good opinion but while using on other devices. When I installed them on Kemper and used with very well-profiled amps, I just felt like all of those sound a little bit less natural than they should. Even though they had a great opinion from people who were using them on other devices like Helix, Fractal.
So I have an amp that has an ir loader in it, but I want an “IR” that is just no cab so I can record my amp into my daw and put an ir on after, does anyone know where that exists?
there is no way to "remove" the ir of your cab, but depending on the amp you might be able to get the sound of your amp without the ir. If your amp has an effects send, you can get the sound of the preamp from there. However if it's a tube amp, you will need to have some speaker connected. Or you can just look for an attenuator and get the sound from there.
@@mlsoundlab I'm using a Mesa Badlander, it has cab clone IR in it with a reactive load, but for me to get any sound I need to put an IR into the slot to get any sound, so I was wondering if there would be an "IR" that really just allows the entire sound of the amp to come through
@@cooperrobinsonas @scyther666 said, just record the preamp signal (by plugging the FX send into your audio interface) and then simulate the poweramp / cab/mic in your daw, with something like Two Notes Genome. Been recording like that for years. Just make sure your amp is still loaded (loadbox and/or cab connected) so you don't damage it.
EVML was one of the more recent packs and I absolutely trashed it in this video so there's that. 😄 That pack was a highly requested speaker. ANGR wasn't that recent either. 😆
Loving the passion .. only a true artist will criticize there own work as you did with some of your impulses ... ( i personally think ) those particular impulses didn't fit those chords / riff and will defiantly have a home on another progression ,style and tone %100 ... =~}
IRs are alright all things considered, gets you 70% there. I much prefer impulses in Nebula platform, they take way more processing power but are totally worth it imo and capture characteristics that IRs just can't. Sadly the format didn't "stick" so there are very few good ones.
On the topic of Nebula - I feel like I have to make the video once a year comparing a raw format ML IR vs a real miked up cab because there really is no difference in sound. You can literally phase reverse them to get nearly silence. Please try out non-MPT'd regular format IRs. Most IRs out there are minimum phase transformed and that messes with the phase information of the IRs. Our regular format is non-MPT'd which is a big reason why they have that slight bit of extra realism to them. ☺
@@mlsoundlab I've tried almost everything on the market and nothing beats Nebula so far. IR's may sound really close if you pass DI signal through when reamping or something along those lines, IRs are fine, I mean there's a reason they are used almost everywhere but they lack in terms of feel and dynamics when playing, compared to Nebula cabs. Nebula just has this thump in the bass that IR's don't have and richness in the mids. And the most important thing for me is the dynamics when playing, IR's feel a bit flat for a lack of better term, not flat in freq response but flat in the sense that they feel more like someone else playing and you listening if that makes sense. I probably couldn't tell them apart when listening but I can surely feel a significant difference when playing
Why are you just looking for what is essentially a pleasant low pass filter when you'd EQ that anyway? Shouldn't you be listening to what it's doing tonally and where it's doing it so you can stack cabs? I'm curious as to your reasoning for this as I'm not as skilled
You meticulously scrutinized a mono guitar not only without the context of a mix but then proceeded to depart even further from any real world application by cutting out all the low frequencies. 10/10 exercise in futility.
The low end of the IR will actually stay relatively unchanged and overall it pulls the concentration away from really listening to that high end where the guitars are actually audible in the mix. 200hz is for the snare low end and below that it's immediately bass guitar and after that the kick. Guitars SHOULD get buried by all of those things around that area. From around 300hz-5khz is where you usually hear the guitars in the mix and that 5khz are is where guitars start to blend with overheads as those are the two hard panned instruments that high in the frequency range. So many people choose their IRs outside a mix context based on the EQ balance of an IR when that is something extremely easy to control with amp EQ while if your IR sounds bad especially from 2khz forward there's no EQ besides surgical post EQ (yuck!) that can fix it.
Yup that was the point. Most things like amount of bass, mids, highs, presence etc. are easy to control with the amplifier but the thing you can absolutely not control anywhere else is that high frequency roll-off so right here we're focusing on the main job of the IR. The internet is filled with people telling you to low pass your guitars extremely low... the real solution is finding an IR that doesn't sound terrible up there. ☺
Mikko: "You're using the wrong IR."
Me, looking at ML-MEGA-DJENT-57-C:
"Don't listen to him, he doesn't understand the relationship we have together."
Hahahhahaha well that... that is a pretty damn good IR! 😆
My favorite is ML-MEGA-DJENT-MIX-OLD ))))
Love the video! Always ended up fighting the high frequencies and this helps put everything into a new perspective. Thanks!
Happy to help you out 💪
-Kai
This was an awesome demo of high frequencies issues. Your Mikko Player product is an absolutely amazing product. I hope you come out with a few more addons for it at some point. Your IRs are absolutely the best available. Thank you!
Thanks so much and YES can't wait to tell you about all the exciting things we're working on for the MIKKO plugin. 🤫
Thanks for walking us through this helpful analysis! More please
Seems like people are really loving this video - need to do more videos like this!
One of the best video tutorial about IRs ever! THX!!!
Thank you so much Karol!
This video is so helpful, I've had the issue of that sizzle in my tone for ages but had no idea exactly what it was or how to describe it. Thanks so much :)
Happy to help! 💪
-Kai
The single best video on how to properly choose a great sounding ir, thanks for this incredibly informative example!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for checking it out!
-Kai
Mikko, thank you for this video. The things you talk here really changed how my guitars sound on a mix. I've tried A LOT of IR's but this changed my mind about them, and how to identify a good IR from a bad one(for the application needed). Now to me, nearly doesn't matter what amp am using, the cab IR rules above them and can get a great tone from every amp. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!!
That's so awesome to hear, happy to have helped you out!
-Kai
Really Interesting video, I'd be happy to watch more of these nerdier ones! Also good tip to highpass the sound, to not get initially distracted by the low end.
Glad there's some interest in the deeper-dive stuff, it's always a lot of fun for us to get into!
-Kai
I don't know how you guys did it, but your AMPED series is the best thing to happen to guitar tone since Jim Marshall created the first amp for Jimi Hendrix!
Looking forward to learn more knowledge about IR from Dr.IR Mikko. Thanks for this video.👍👍
Thanks Kasey!
-Kai
very insightful, learned a lot about these cabs, and I have quite a few of them, thanks a lot :)
Well then the video did it's job! These are sort of the things that I'm constantly thinking about when tweaking guitar tones. :)
@@mlsoundlab me too, more nerdy stuff is always welcome 🤩
Nice! I've always just gone by feel, this makes 100% sense
Dear Mikko, thank you for all this great content !! I would like to raise your attention on something important to my eyes and wants to make a suggestion. IRs are the most fantastic things that happened to guitar players and as well the worst. I experienced going the rabbit hole of IRs and it was a nightmare !!! I spent hours, days, years auditioning IRs, playing with the Cartesian mixer of STL tones Libra. I was all about 57s with 160s with 7b... Instead of playing and enjoying I was in a constant search for a better tone. And after all this work (suffering) I realized that the best IRs combinations I created barely matched the mixes that you already served me on a golden plate. I have made a short selection of my favorite IRs and I wish to stick to it. I am feeling sick today when I think about hundred of IRs files and I am scared to buy any new IR pack because I don't want to be in this nightmare again. I suggest you to sell two version of your IRs pack. One "best of", with your best mixes and another one "Diamond", "Gold" or "Pro" version with the hundreds of single files for music professional, studio people, or all the people who like to tweak and believe they can make better mixes than your (and have the time). Please Mikko, you have the power to make a big change in the business and distribution model . If you would do this I would buy all your IR packs "Best of" because I won't be scared anymore. Thank you for reading and keep on Rockin !!!!
Thank you ever so much for the feedback, some awesome suggestions there!
-Kai
@@mlsoundlab I second that motion. I'm definitely not a "tweaker" and I rather spend my time playing/writing music than searching for a decent sound.
I too get lost in the endless sifting of IRs. I have my few select amp sims that I like, but IRs seem to always take me down the time-wasting tunnel, and at the end of the day I've tried 700 IRs and written nothing. It's a horrible affliction.
Good point about monnitoring IRs with a low-cut on !
This was really fun! Thanks for the insightful look at the different IRs. That ANGR pack is calling to me, though it might be because I just got a Fireball 100....
Glad you liked it! The ANGR pack is an absolute ripper for sure!
-Kai
Thanks, great comparison and information relating to the cabs and speaker readings, timely as early this morning I was auditioning the Roots 2 ver, nice with actual cab and miking position options, going to grab today! You asked about other video topics so maybe one on setting the right input and output levels of the amps along with watching your DAW channel levels. You amps tones are very customizable and want to make sure the guitar players out there do not bypass your hard work because a preset didn't produce the right tones for specific guitar configuration! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you ever so much for the feedback, input levels are imperative to a good Amped tone so we'll do our best to cover it soon!
-Kai
This was quite insightful. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Chris! 🙏
-Kai
Thanks Miko, that was awesome to hear the comparison of the roll-off and with the bass cut. Well done!
Thanks so much! The next step would be to actually use a limiter after the IR to balance the output volume for the IRs. Sounds even more awful but helps with hearing the nasty stuff.
@@mlsoundlabGreat tip
Really cool idea. Something I've found is that the (sometimes harsh) center mic position is punchier -- faster dynamic response. My experience is that condenser mics (especially large diaphragm) generally have a more pleasant high end, so using a centered mic position isn't as problematic and still allows for a faster dynamic response.
Another finding is that a bit of power tube distortion on something like a 1959 or 2203 circuit removes most harshness right from the source, though that's a different use case.
Curious whether you've come to similar conclusions, or if your experience has been much different?
Fantastic video, Miko.
Thank you so much!!
Great video, please make more like these! One that I would love to see would also be one in which you show in detail the mic placements you use to achieve these irs
Thanks and that's a great idea! The reality is much like I said in the video - you just have to keep on searching for that good mic position. I have a custom Dynamount that I can control in front of the speaker when the cab is loud in the live room so I have the luxury of actually being able to listen to the sound and even monitor the graphs while I'm moving the microphone. Huge time saver... back in the day I actually built my own robot from wood so I could do this when Dynamount didn't exist yet. 😄
Thanks for the advice.
A very good way to show this differences.
Thanks so much! Something that I wish I made more clear in the video - different mics work better with some cabs than others so you could repeat this same process with f.ex. the 160 mic and get completely different results. The 57 is likely the most popular mic though. ☺
@@mlsoundlab It is very clear. So grateful to be a loyal customer. Your products are amazing and we appreciate them.
Great sounding ir's.👍😎🎵🎶🎸
I for one almost always cut a couple dB at around 5k if I’m using a Mesa or Marshall cab, but my favorite cabinet sound is actually the Fortin Cali stock cabinet, it has a pretty early roll off and I think that’s what I like about it. The main upper mid presence frequency in that cabinet is around 2-3k so it automatically cuts in the mix without being bright and fizzy
Compare the cab section to the Fortin Nameless - that is my ML Mega Traditional 4x12 cab in the cab section. 😏 Smooth curves from around 3khz forward.
@@mlsoundlab I will do, I always found the Nameless wayyyy too scooped but that probably has to do with the amp itself because the ML midrange is usually quite strong lol
tfw I am feeling called out now since all I use are the pre-made mixes! I use the ANGR, MEGA TR, and Blackback mixes at present and they are very nice but the ANGR is definitely the hardest one to work with I find.
So far the MEGA TR-THRASH and TR-NEUTRAL are probably my favorite IRs to date they're just so good no matter how I use it! I will need to experiment more with dedicated unmixed IRs as I think its arguably limiting me probably. HOWEVER I feel these pre-made mixes save me time and get me playing hence why I fall back to old faithful MEGA-TR usually, they sound great and that's all that matters at the end of the day for a bedroom warrior like me.
I definitely want to get that PR and MARS MOFO packs some day, they seem niiiiiiice!
The Mix IRs are always a super safe bet - they're pretty much all designed to give you balanced tones from the get-go. Taking time out of arranging your workflow can be the difference between getting a banger riff recorded or not. No shame in using the pre-made mixes at all!
-Kai
I’ve always been an ENGL guy. When you put the ANGR pack I went straight into it, but somehow I couldn’t get the high end right for me. Then I bought the Mikko version and I’ve made a couple of IRs which are my go to pair with my ENGL Preamp. Lately I’ve been in a Mesa Mark mode and I always pair it with the MEGA Trad. I mix the 57-C with the 121-A. Match made in Heaven!
Mikko, btw. We (I) need an ANGR Cream Cab Pack please!! 😅
But please with G12M 65, not the G12H 75
1:18 no, just insert an eq plugin before your IR, use a 6 or 12 db per octave slope, which prevents phase issues.
Never Stop!
We won't! 💪
-Kai
My wife was asking about what is an Ayyar, the Ayyar... Anyways, great video! I have another method: first I make an intense session of looking for nice IRs. Make a collection of excellent IRs in a way you can quickly switch in between them. Take a huge break after the selection (very important). Now listen to your mix together and start swapping the IRs. This way you can trick ear fatigue and also avoid the "it sounds great in solo" problem.
Absolutely! Ear fatigue and taking breaks is important. Also once you have a few IRs that you really like soloed you put them in a mix and it usually helps choosing the best one.
@@mlsoundlab just by listening to the low cut guitars for a couple of minutes made the original versions sound ridiculously boomy and buckety. Which they were not.
How about listening to the IRs in a mix context right away (instead of listening to guitars solo-ed at first) ?
That's a good demonstration of the roll off, but not in all instances you want that roll off.
The ANGR cab is great, but quite dark. The ORNG is one of my favorites... Maybe not the best roll off, but more balanced than the ANGR. Depends on the situation I guess.
Good point - I should point out that when I was still gigging (tiny pubs) my rig was an ORNG amp into an ORNG 4x12 and that was "my sound" and I still love it today. You can't sound like ORNG without having that steep roll-off. The demand for that roll-off increases with the higher gain you use. The ORNG actually has a smooth roll-off but it's a very steep one and soloed it can sound unpleasant but in the mix it's not really a problem.
Amped series is a Top Gun of ampsims, no other one for me at least when Im recording. In the other hand: Mikko2 is a one step beyond. Even the free stuff rocks.
Your thoughts on handstand push-ups against a wall ?
The trick with all distortion tones with irs is using the high cut I have that mofo pack Have to with that as well. I don’t do it globally because I like some of those hz with the clean
Love videos like this and also your products. I've been in touch with you before about IR tips.
Are the IR:s in the Mikko-plugin as pure as separate IR:s, if it's a kind of sound "compromise" with the plugin (I've both)? Cheers from Stockholm.
Both sound totally raw and awesome, there's no compromise to the quality either way, just the flexibility and functionality is improved with the MIKKO plugin! 🙏
-Kai
That was pretty enlightening, Mikko. I'm looking for a cab with the best articulation/definition, been really tempted by the Matias Kupiainen cab. Any suggestions?
Hi Diego! It was an honor to capture "the actual Stratovarius cab". That's the Bgnr Uber Cab Pack. The magic of that cab for me is blending the two speaker types. Following the theme of this video though - if you're after the best definition I'd look for a cab with that long frequency roll-off rather than a steep roll-off that happens higher in the frequencies. PR-M75, Mega Traditional or Mega Oversize are the ones that really jump to my mind immediately. Also the ANGR has that huge sweetspot that I demoed in the video. That really enables you to get more brightness out of the cab while it's still quite pleasant in the mix. Ultimately if you have a pleasant high end on the IR you can absolutely crank the presence on your amp and get the definition that you're after.
@@mlsoundlab Many thanks!! I was messing around with the Mikko Player and loved it. The presence boost worked wonders even with basic IRs, I'm definitely grabbing at least of couple or IR packs 😸
I bought your ir a like 6 months ago and I didn’t actually use them for a bit like until last week and honestly the one I had loaded from a friend is static x that ir blows all your away and it’s just balanced I’m gonna try some more and make some tones but I thought yours would sound better. Is there any ways you can make an ir to load onto the fractal in the dyna cab section so we can move the mic around
For a next video it would be cool to do a null-test with the real cab + mic vs IR version.
I've actually done this on forums before - I probably need to do a video about it as well. Now... this will vary based on the IR shoot method so even if my IRs null it definitely does not mean that everyone's IRs null. I've spent years getting that null sound as quiet as I possibly can. 😁
@@mlsoundlab It would be interesting to hear what exactly the difference? How (non-)linear a speaker can be?
Liked it, but I won't lie in terms that I may ask the question that's floating in thin air, which is... Are darker Cabs better? (3Khz and going down the street already could be consider super early cutting somehow)
Definitely depends a little bit on the mix. Alnico speakers tend to have the longest and earliest frequency roll-off so you can try that extreme.... damnit I haven't released those IRs yet. Oh well.. There's a fine line when it comes to this. I find that if the roll-off starts happening after 4khz then it's going to be a bit too bright and many times people start to EQ the highs of the guitar. Even in this instance most the cabs really started to get most of that roll-off closer to 3-4k.
You make a very solid point here. I just bought the mofo pack. I just went through this process with the HBE axe model checking in and out of a rock mix. I noticed that The Freedman pack I bought from you two weeks ago has quite excessive high frequency and not such a linear roll off on the cab it purports to require no tweaking from. The mofo pack sounds great on it though. However, it has a dip in the low mids which makes it sound lethargic compared to the Ownhammer (r)evolution Marshall packs. I’m curious as to your thoughts on the low mid dip by comparison. Was it by design or did you do that to be more mix ready with Bass? I really want it to be the winner, but I am ultimately going to use my ears.
This topic is actually something I've discussed with Nolly and this is likely a topic where he and I disagree the most when it comes to guitar tone. (Don't worry! We can be friends an not agree on tone. :P) To summarize - he mostly mics up top speakers and I mostly mic up bottom speakers. One of the most important captures for the majority of people is the 57 alone. To get a full focused sound with a 57 alone I believe it must be one of the bottom speakers but if I prefer some of the top speakers I'll actually turn the cab around standing upside down and mic up the top speakers as if they were bottom speakers. Don't quote me on this but I believe Nolly mics up the top speakers to get rid of this low mid dip. I would argue that this low mid dip is something that is not a crucial part in guitar tone. It's already a part of guitar low end which is not a prominent thing in a mix (there's plenty of instruments that want this space like bass guitar f.ex.) while the top end roll-off we're talking about here is one of the most important things that could potentially ruin a mix. Also I do see the hole in the spectrum analyzer but I do not hear a problem. That low mid dip is a part of some of the best guitar tones ever and it's "supposed to be there". So use spectrum analyzers to aid your hearing rather than mixing with your eyes. ☺
@@mlsoundlab Thank you for your response. I’m glad that this actually is a thoughtful point. I use my ears and graphs while mixing. Of course, I was working out a live tone mostly at the time. I will be sure to go back to the mofo in upcoming proper studio recordings and A/B. I figured it was there as a natural way to leave room for bass.
@@mlsoundlab"To summarize - he mostly mics up top speakers and I mostly mic up bottom speakers. One of the most important captures for the majority of people is the 57 alone. To get a full focused sound with a 57 alone I believe it must be one of the bottom speakers but if I prefer some of the top speakers I'll actually turn the cab around standing upside down and mic up the top speakers as if they were bottom speakers. Don't quote me on this but I believe Nolly mics up the top speakers to get rid of this low mid dip."
Very interesting !
Was the CAT pack a bundle you sold for a while in the ML sound lab page? may I buy it currently?
41k mono ?
what frequency should be for diy music from a laptop to daw as a bedroom producer, what do you think?
The impulses just weigh quite a lot.
I want to clean my computer.
thanks Miko, you da man!
Thanks for checking it out!
-Kai
With regards to this video what are your thoughts on eminence speakers like Governor and Swamp Thing with have earlier high frequency roll off? Thanks!
I did the cabinet section for the Neural DSP Omega Granophyre plugin and the cab had two types of Eminence prototype speakers. I'm not 100% sure but I believe one of them was the DV77 and the other one was the VM1265 but like I said they were prototypes. Both of those speakers had a very prominent 5khz thing going on that I couldn't get rid of while keeping a 57 focussed sounding. I would say that high end is likelier to do with the speakers than the cabinet. I'd use something like an M160 as the main mic on those rather than a 57. I did a big comparison over a decade ago between different speaker manufacturers and decided Celestion is the sound that we're all used to hearing and that's what I'll focus on. It may be a good thing to revisit this comparison.
Hey Mikko, I’m planning on buying your Mars mofo pack. Im going to be using it in my line 6 pod go, I play shows here in Nicaragua with my band so it will be mostly dedicated to live use only. Are your IRs mix ready ? Do I need to tweak something before playing with the guys (drum, bass, another guitar player). Bests 🎸
With a great source tone, you shouldn't need to do any mixing at all - the FOH engineer will make adjustments if necessary, but there's nothing you'll need to do from your end. All of our IR packs come with "Mix" files - these are multi-mic blends, built for balanced sounds that should work in most use cases.
-Kai
Yes! Make more vids!
Thank you Emiliano, we plan to make a bunch more!! Anything in particular you'd like to see? 💪
-Kai
Next video idea - blending 2 (or more) iRs. Mic choice and thought process. :)
That would be a great video, thanks for requesting it! 💪
-Kai
GO ML-HLWN-22-MEGA-TRAD-BLUE I CHOOSE YOUUUUUU! *Throws pokeball*
Oh yeah that's an unreleased Cab Pack right there! Definitely has a nice roll-off! 😘
@@mlsoundlab Gotta catch em all lolol
Okay but ML-HLWN-22-MEGA-TRAD-BLUE is great
Flamma does the job
These are the best IRs I have ever used and I have used hundreds of IRs.
Thank you 🔥
-Kai
In the video, what tools/software is the signal running through?
Those are both stock Cubase plugins! "Reverence" is the IR loader and "Frequency" is the EQ plugin which I'm using for the low cut and spectrum analyzer. Amazing stock Cubase plugins.
Miko what do you think of that new V30 video from glen fricker??
I've seen the video and I think it's interesting. After a few struggles with V30 speakers from 2005 forward I've started to avoid newer speakers in general. I actually specifically bought four Anniversary V30s (for a potential IR collection) after hearing they were "better now" but I didn't like them enough to make a pack of them at that point... something that usually does happen when I buy something that I really like. My newer V30s actually have a nice smooth roll-off but if I remember correctly that roll-off started from like 5khz or something and if I compared it to any of my golden era 90s-2004 V30s I wouldn't even call them the same speaker. In Glenn's video they did not seem too bright though so it could be just like it was around 2000.. every year sounds completely different and there's no way of knowing what you get without trying them out. Two of our Mega packs have speakers from the same year and they sound nothing alike......... Also there's the fact that I have Greenbacks that sound closer to my 2000 era V30s than my newer V30s. You hear a lot of things from these companies mostly saying that they've never changed anything which makes me think it has to do with something they have no control over like f.ex. cone manufacturing and the thickness or material of the cone. It's all random. It's very likely that with guitar cabs you will never know what you get. The best bet is still to make sure your V30s are from 2004 or earlier. 2005 is where things turned bad.
So my decision, and I can only buy one is between: Mofo, Angr or the Mikko Djent. What do I do?
Oh man, tough call. ANGR is super aggressive, Mofo is powerful and smooth, Mega Djent is tight!
-Kai
Is that a stock IR Loader in Cubase... looks like one of there reverbs.
Yup stock Cubase plugin "Reverence"!
What would be a good IR pack for hard rock, not as heavy as your video, more like Disturbed, Godsmack, etc.
Something thick and grunty should work well for this - I'd say Blackback, Freeman, or Mega Green
-Kai
What if I told you I was using clark kents step IR? ;)
Hey and what about IRs on Kemper Profiler? Do you know if a well-made IR can significantly improve Kemper sound?
If a third party IR makes your tone better then go for it !
@@djabthrash yeah that’s very accurate and quite easy answer. But as I know there is a difference for example in Kemper’s and Helix tech. I’ve tried some IR’s that have very good opinion but while using on other devices. When I installed them on Kemper and used with very well-profiled amps, I just felt like all of those sound a little bit less natural than they should. Even though they had a great opinion from people who were using them on other devices like Helix, Fractal.
Thanks, Mikko. If you've already praised the Marshall MF cabinet, you could make a MIKKO cab sim plugin version of it.
Very good suggestion!!
-Kai
@@mlsoundlab YES, I would love a MIKKO MOFO
So I have an amp that has an ir loader in it, but I want an “IR” that is just no cab so I can record my amp into my daw and put an ir on after, does anyone know where that exists?
Most amps with integrated IR loaders/load boxes should be able to output a clean cabless signal, what amp are you using?
-Kai
there is no way to "remove" the ir of your cab, but depending on the amp you might be able to get the sound of your amp without the ir.
If your amp has an effects send, you can get the sound of the preamp from there. However if it's a tube amp, you will need to have some speaker connected. Or you can just look for an attenuator and get the sound from there.
@@mlsoundlab I'm using a Mesa Badlander, it has cab clone IR in it with a reactive load, but for me to get any sound I need to put an IR into the slot to get any sound, so I was wondering if there would be an "IR" that really just allows the entire sound of the amp to come through
@@cooperrobinsonas @scyther666 said, just record the preamp signal (by plugging the FX send into your audio interface) and then simulate the poweramp / cab/mic in your daw, with something like Two Notes Genome.
Been recording like that for years.
Just make sure your amp is still loaded (loadbox and/or cab connected) so you don't damage it.
What is a good free IR to use with my new valeton gp 200?
Check out our MIKKO2 plugin - you can export your own IRs, even from the free version 💪
-Kai
No love for Silver? 57A -C are so smooth
are there IR packs for clean or overdriven /not distorted sounds ?
Check out our Sure P212 pack, if you're into clean tones you're going to love it!
-Kai
What sofware are u using here?
These are both Cubase stock plugins. Reverence and Frequency!
I need good IRs for bass. Any recommendations
AMPG Bass Cab Pack!
-Kai
Hes right.
And which cab pack is the most recent? lol
EVML was one of the more recent packs and I absolutely trashed it in this video so there's that. 😄 That pack was a highly requested speaker. ANGR wasn't that recent either. 😆
Loving the passion .. only a true artist will criticize there own work as you did with some of your impulses ... ( i personally think ) those particular impulses didn't fit those chords / riff and will defiantly have a home on another progression ,style and tone %100 ... =~}
Thank you so much!
-Kai
IRs are alright all things considered, gets you 70% there. I much prefer impulses in Nebula platform, they take way more processing power but are totally worth it imo and capture characteristics that IRs just can't. Sadly the format didn't "stick" so there are very few good ones.
On the topic of Nebula - I feel like I have to make the video once a year comparing a raw format ML IR vs a real miked up cab because there really is no difference in sound. You can literally phase reverse them to get nearly silence. Please try out non-MPT'd regular format IRs. Most IRs out there are minimum phase transformed and that messes with the phase information of the IRs. Our regular format is non-MPT'd which is a big reason why they have that slight bit of extra realism to them. ☺
@@mlsoundlab I've tried almost everything on the market and nothing beats Nebula so far. IR's may sound really close if you pass DI signal through when reamping or something along those lines, IRs are fine, I mean there's a reason they are used almost everywhere but they lack in terms of feel and dynamics when playing, compared to Nebula cabs. Nebula just has this thump in the bass that IR's don't have and richness in the mids. And the most important thing for me is the dynamics when playing, IR's feel a bit flat for a lack of better term, not flat in freq response but flat in the sense that they feel more like someone else playing and you listening if that makes sense. I probably couldn't tell them apart when listening but I can surely feel a significant difference when playing
What software is this
Stock plugins in Cubase - REVerence, and StudioEQ
-Kai
Why are you just looking for what is essentially a pleasant low pass filter when you'd EQ that anyway? Shouldn't you be listening to what it's doing tonally and where it's doing it so you can stack cabs? I'm curious as to your reasoning for this as I'm not as skilled
11:15
I just use a real Marshall 4x12
Wassup
Wazaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
How do I load a custom IR to roots?
Open up the Cab section, select "Load Custom IR" from the drop-down speaker box 💪 Give us a shout if you have any issues with it though!
-Kai
You meticulously scrutinized a mono guitar not only without the context of a mix but then proceeded to depart even further from any real world application by cutting out all the low frequencies. 10/10 exercise in futility.
The low end of the IR will actually stay relatively unchanged and overall it pulls the concentration away from really listening to that high end where the guitars are actually audible in the mix. 200hz is for the snare low end and below that it's immediately bass guitar and after that the kick. Guitars SHOULD get buried by all of those things around that area. From around 300hz-5khz is where you usually hear the guitars in the mix and that 5khz are is where guitars start to blend with overheads as those are the two hard panned instruments that high in the frequency range. So many people choose their IRs outside a mix context based on the EQ balance of an IR when that is something extremely easy to control with amp EQ while if your IR sounds bad especially from 2khz forward there's no EQ besides surgical post EQ (yuck!) that can fix it.
🙄 promosm
Yikes! Terrible. Did not present the IR's in a usable sense. It sounds like it's coming through a pin-hole speaker.
Yup that was the point. Most things like amount of bass, mids, highs, presence etc. are easy to control with the amplifier but the thing you can absolutely not control anywhere else is that high frequency roll-off so right here we're focusing on the main job of the IR. The internet is filled with people telling you to low pass your guitars extremely low... the real solution is finding an IR that doesn't sound terrible up there. ☺
Täyttä paskaa, mutta tää varmaan kuuluu some juttuihin nykyään.
Suuret kiitokset!
"your using the wrong it"
Me- "using ml's best it in the world"
Well that IR has an awesome roll-off to it!! 😁
YOU ARE using the wrong cab IR..GET A REAL CAB AND FORGET THE FAKES!!!!
I just use a real Marshall 4x12
I just use a real Marshall 4x12