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The Most Successful Sword Hilt in the British Empire?
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
- The three bar 1821 pattern light cavalry hilt was probably the most popular sword hilt design of the British Empire. But why?
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I'm imagining the conversation with the storage officer:
"It's sad what happened to Bill isn't it, I loved that bloke. Speaking of which, what's the status on his sword, I'm sure he'd want a friend to have it, can you knock off 20 quid for it?"
In many units the tradition was to auction kit when people died.
I'd be interested to see an episode of you making your ideal Franken-sword. Which hilt design, which blade design, length etc. If you were an 1880s officer and went to Todd to make you a sword, what would he make for you?
(Now have him go do it for real so you have a visual. :-))
Yes, please talk more about Toledo patterns!
God that Wilkinson Engineer scroll hilt is just absolutely gorgeous.
As a person who works outdoors and has done a lot of hiking, if I was expecting to carry a sword around all day, every day I'd want a hilt that was most comfortable to wear. A basket hilt looks like just about the last thing I'd want to take on a long hike.
A Cutlass or a hanger is what you would prefer I am sure of it
I would imagine that if your sword was damaged and you ran over to the regimental armory, you just might have to take what he had on the shelf that day. Being thousands of miles from home, this could probably happen quite often.
Wonderful, informative video.
Few questions to the better informed ones:
1. in XIX century UK army, was the "first" sword sponsored by the army, or the officers needed to buy one themselves?
2. how using not-your-type-of-service swords was perceived by commanding officers? was it treated as a discipline breach, or the approach was "whatever as long as you are armed"?
3. how were weapons collected/reassigned after the battle/epidemy etc.? who got to get the swords of the deceased? Did the winning army also keep and distribute the weapons of the losing one?
Best regards to all!
Officers always buy their own kit & side arms (and food). The Govt. gives or sponsers them nothing. Always have. Nowadays they get supplied a main battle rifle & ammo tho.
@@kronckew There is now a uniform allowance for newly commissioned officers that covers "required" items of uniform other than combat uniform. This used to be enough for mess kit and No.2 service dress from the regiment or corps' approved tailor was but you'd have to stretch it if you wanted a sword too. Whether this has changed now that the cheap and nasty "Future Army Dress" version of No.2s is issued rather than purchased I don't know - although I note that many new officers SD is of better quality cloth than issue.
You're generally advised to save your Sandhurst salary for extras like swords... which isn't hard as you don't have time to spend much.
@@kronckew You probably already know this, but for those that read the comments that don't; It was also common to actually buy a entire officers position. That's right, with enough money you could just get promoted or buy a rank, very odd to modern sensibilities, it just looks like blatant corruption that would hamper the quality of officers, but during certain periods of time it was commonplace.
@@-Zevin- I was talking from personal experience as a now retired US Military Lt. Cdr., I had to buy all my work and dress uniform items, and pay my mess bill, and buy my sword. I would be issued a fire-arm on need, and received an allowance of 2 boxes .45acp ammo for a personal fire arm for quarterly practice, and any required to renew my qualification.
I was allowed to carry a sidearm on official business requiring it within the USA, as I was in a law enforcement category. I did get a travel allowance when using personal transport on Govt. Business, such as permanent change of station. I could also requisition coveralls for claiming around filthy engine rooms when inspected merchant vessels or when I was an engineer afloat on our cutters/icebreakers.
I'm aware that the UK Armed forces bought their commissions, except in rare circumstances. I was unaware that they are now issued initial outfits. I always had to buy mine, even as a Cadet (Midshipman)) at SUNYMC - Ieven paid rent, tuition, food, etc. (They did issue me a rifle &/or sword for parade use) as it was a NY State run Military College. Other nations of course may vary.
I'd love to see you check out some Swiss swords like 1867 and 1896 troopers. Symmetrical guards, thumb pad and finger loops for sabre grip, and very well built.
Yes I agree, they are nice swords. They borrowed some design inspiration from both Austrian and British swords, and the end result is generally good.
Matt, you've been talking about the leather lining of the hilts, could you one day make a video about that subject, provided there is enough information available?
I second this. There must be at least some surviving leather linings in acceptable or fair condition. I have leather covered sheaths from the 1800s that are in surprisingly good condition. Usually stiff, but soften right up with some leather conditioner. (Do NOT use saddle soap it has a PH of 9-10 and will end up destroying antiques after a few years.)
@@-Zevin- Wilkinson Sword still exists and even if they can't make a new leather lining, they probably have historical records (like the numbered sword catalogue) or maybe examples if they have a company museum.
One reason for highland officers going for the light cavalry pattern is for comfort when marching etc on campaign.
There are extant examples and photographs where the basket hilt is replace by a simple cross guard for campaigns.
@@neilmorrison7356 The basket hilt was explicitly for ceremonial purpose.
@@hazzardalsohazzard2624 sorry have to disagree was used in the earlier history of highland regiments but as Mat says as sabre technique began to get taught as standard the basket hilt went out of fashion for campaigns. The basket hilt was not just for hand protection but also can be used offensively. Drummer James Roddick is known to have used the basket hilt to help defend Lieutenant Menzies in 1882. I suspect ORs had no choice in what they did with issued weapons.
Great video Matt! Can we here more about that steel guard infantry saber with a "Toledo" style blade? I reckon the guy who owned it was a serious swordsman.
Thank you for this video. You have answered several questions I have on a sword I have owned for the last 30 years. Awesome
So you're saying that hilt type has set the bar...
As a middle aged father of two, I appreciate this joke.
Marvelous video, among your best. Cheers for making it!
Or, just like in modern times, the 3 bar was just what the cool kids wore. Never underestimate the cool factor and style in history. :)
4 bars with happy hour is even better if you like drinking alcohol... ;)
Military Psychology 101: Anything that makes you stand out from the crowd will be worn by almost anyone who can get away with it.
Especially with its light leather rawhide lining.
@@itsapittie a uniform until a couple of centuries ago was often what people had available.
@@seriousmaran9414 True, but in the period Matt is discussing uniforms were very much a thing. Even much further back, Roman legionnaires added bling to their armor and warriors in other cultures painted their shields and their faces in distinctive patterns.
C'mon Gordon. Let me borrow your sword. Pleeeeaaaaase!
Great video Matt, very informativ. Thanks for your work on historical weapons
Please do a video on Toledo baldes swords
Thanks for mentioning the lining, I was indeed wondering how this was considered protective with such large gaps. Although, I imagine a lining still wouldn't do much against a thrust into the gap.
Extremely good video!
First here. Supporting this channel to the hilt
How come I keep getting the 'wrong' kind of joke when I read your name?
:(
I love the term 'delivering point'. It sounds nice, like something you'd sign for.
Fairly similar hilt design to a M1826 Bavarian light cavalry sabre I picked up recently. Although I find the flow of the hilt to be more attractive on the British models. Wish I could find more information on Bavarian sabers though.
The highland infantry officer's sword with the 2 bar hilt and the broadsword blade at 3:43 seems like it handles super nice, and it looks absolutely gorgeous!
Thanks Matt very informative 👍 much appreciated
Yay, my sword (RHA). I always felt the design was more aesthetically and functionally pleasing than those of other designs. Actually, I think its popularity was probably mostly related to its distribution and replacement availability in the field. E.g. during a campaign an infantry battalion might only have 20-ish officers bearing their own unique regimental sword pattern, whereas there were multiple RA/RHA/RGA and light cavalry units equipped across all ranks with hundreds of light cavalry pattern swords. Ergo that type would dominate in any salvage pool held by the QMs.
15:28 that's right. Gordon does not need a sword at all. He simply shouts at the enemy how awful their meals are, and boom: they are destroyed
My only complaint with that sort of hilt is that it's very right-handed (I'm a southpaw). :P
I think it's a beautiful and elegant hilt. My favorite as well!
I’m a sucker for elegant barred rapiers and then for naval/cavalry sabres!
My immediate thought was that the three bar hilt looks a lot easier to clean than the basket hilt.
I love the pattented hilt.
I have a collection of full width tang swords. My faves.
The three bar hilts just look good. Don’t see many four bar hilts
The Identity Store has good selection of leather to reproduce leather liners
My fav swords. Cavalry saber, viking era/Saxon sword n hand n half early medieval. But for the Cavalry sword, they're mostly right handed. I'm a lefty, so I need 1 that can work in both hands
Great video sir. Would you ever do any history on American military swords?
great video thanks!
08:45 _drools_
Matt, you talk about the expense of buying these swords several times. Just how expensive in 21st C terms would these have been? New I-phone expensive (1000-1200USD) or more like good violin ($5-10k+) expensive?
To the best of my knowledge (subject to correction) the three-bar hilt made of brass was used on every U.S. Army cavalry saber from the formation of the first regular army dragoon regiments in 1833 until 1906 when the material of the guard was changed to steel, although for the most part the M1906 didn't actually replace the earlier pattern in the field. The first (and last) major change came with the M1913 "Patton" cavalry sword but by then the sword was not being taken very seriously as a weapon in the U.S. so it didn't really matter. The fact that the three-bar hilt was used by so many armies over a fairly long period of time argues that it was thought to be a very practical form. Like a lot of things military, it may have represented the "best compromise" instead of "absolutely the best thing ever" but there must have been a lot of soldiers who liked it.
Does anyone know what video Matt did about the differences between heavy and light cavalry?
Did the British army have a lot of cavlry officers or rather, a lot of cavalry officers who either died or were promoted or sent home and thus either needed a new sword or didn't need the old one or needed the cash? If that were true, it might support the hypothosis that they were available. On the other hand, if they weren't, it might support the hypothosis that people liked the lighter design more.
I misread the title as 'most successful Sword Hit' - which I think would be an equally awesome video
Matt, are you going to be restoring those swords with their original gilded hilts and leather inserts?
Great watching as always! What is Your opinion on caucasian shashka?
Another wonderful video, pardon the slightly off topic question how is the modern royal artillery sword?
Is it carbon steel and built stoutly?
They are in theory made to the same specifications as the old ones, but the quality is WAY lower than the antiques and they are way overpriced. Buy an antique for a fraction of the price.
@@scholagladiatoria Thank you!!!
I really like the 1845 blades. I also like the 3-bar hilt, but it’d likely be my 3rd choice if I was allowed to choose one.
Couldn't one advantage of a 2-bar hilt over the basket design be how quickly it could be gripped, and thus deployed from the scabbard? Particularly given that one needs to reach around one's own body, and mentally 'aim' for where he hopes the hilt on his belt is located (while on his horse!)?
Not having been in that predicament, I'm just guessing, but it would seem that the 2-bar has a more open availability for the fast moving (and blind) hand.
Imagine I didn't even know I wanted to know all that 20 minutes ago. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Sir, do you get poked in the hand, fencesing with the two/three bar? Is this somthing that happens? Thanks.
Yes it can happen, though in fairness that can happen with almost any guard, even basket hilts.
Hello. Great Video. I have an 1821 pattern (I think) cavalry sword. It has the markings, VW on one side of the blade, and a crown and L 8 on the other side of the blade. Do you know what these markings means, please?
Great video. What would be the combo you would personally choose money no issue 🤔
Look similar to swords used in the War of Northern Aggression- I seem to recall that swords were often imported here from England
When Matt mentions The Royal Artillery:
Ubique Quo Fas Et Gloria Ducunt intensifies
Putting the two swords/hilts through tests in various conditions, with different clothing and against the weapons of the day, with the rawhide inserts etc, might be interesting...
Do you mean damaging and destroying historical artifacts for testing? I don't think most people would be ok with that, If it's a modern replica on the other hand I would like to see it.
@@-Zevin- No, I didn't mean that.
What was the video where he talks about the difference between light and heavy cavalry?
I'd say go with the diary... Always... Go with the diary
Did it come in lefty, and how much more ridiculously expensive is it o find an antique lefty one?
Looks nice, decent protection, not big of a deal to make - simple is the best!
Do we have any writing from people at the time discussion the pros and cons of sword design?
You did a video a while back on how much men at arms got paid etc and I think it would be great if you could do a video to follow something like this to give an impression of how many days or months of salary was that sword and thats why paying twice as much for the steel hilt wasnt done.
Matt you mentioning a past video on basket hilts that one of the drawbacks to basket hills is the inability to get your hand on the grip easily.
I'm wondering if that may play into why some of the Highland officers opted for 3 bar hilts?
If one has seen melee combat, as you said the owner of that sword had, it might be that when need arose of him to draw his sword he had fumbled with a previous sword that was a basket?
I know that if I had been in melee combat & fumbled in getting my sword out I certainly would not opt to have a restrictive basket hilt again!
That RA officer's sword is my dream sabre.
What is the origin of the piece at the tip of the scabbard?
What about the Pattern 1908 hilt? That's a pretty nice design. Although I know Matt prefers symmetrical designs.
Can anyone tell me what the weird shaped wooden thing is that's hanging to the left of the frame? I've been wondering for ages! Is it some kind of wooden club?
If I had to guess I'd say that he might wanted a hilt that was easier to get his hand into. You say he almost lost his head to a tulwar. Maybe he found out that under duress that he couldn't get his hand on it.
sometimes the hilt can make a greater difference than the blade.
Personally i find the 3 bar hilt to be the best looking
Nice sword.
Is it possible to buy the first cavalry sword showed fully functional?
Was it only a new recruit who had to buy the new pattern sword ? or did the colonel have to go along with the new one ?
I have never heard of a basket hilt “liner” before, makes sense though, just a replacement for an armoured gauntlet anyway.
Basket hilt looks rather uncomfortable to wear at your side, compared to a 3 bar thats flat on one side
I would like to own something like this but I don’t know how to get one, but I would like to find out how much they cost in money and how are they to be used in practice
What a ridiculous false dichotomy between EITHER the full protection of a basket hilt (including where it doesn't help and just gets in your way) OR a "comfortable" guard with uncomfortably big holes facing the enemy! The hilt at 2:54 looks close to the best of both worlds (full protection with limited / no openings in front, but sweeping to an out-of-the-way "V" near the wrist where the enemy can't reach anyway). The one at 9:00 isn't bad either, except of course for the noted costs of making all the cosmetic cutouts that add nothing to function.
Anybody know where you can buy a hilt like that? I rescued an unmounted blade and want to restore/ resurrect it. A steel handguard is the only part I can't make up myself...
Were there ever any saber blades that were mounted on basket hilts?
Interesting question!
@@F1ghteR41, let me rephrase, Highland Hilt Saber
I actually misread it as "the most successful sword HIT of the British Empire" :) Would be also interesting to find out about that... :)
I saw solides Cut toothbrushes in half to save weight .weight Matters .
Like Obi Wan said of the light saber..."a more elegant weapon..."
He concludes his remark, "for a more civilized era." *Are* there "more civilized era(s)" in human history? At this point in my life, I'm skeptical. Maybe more formalized, more ceremonial.
Man I wish I could shadow you for like a year lol
She’s a beaut
it`s a threebar, the tubar go womp womp.
Could they just sell the sword of a fallen soldier, or did they have to ask someone for permission? I'm talking especially about custom swords. Shouldn't they be inherited by the next of kin?
Must be my Scottish ancestry I just love basket hilts.
gewd shet
Religious significance? ;)
FtA
Swept hilt masterrace
So I just realized that if you wanted to mess with people you could be technically correct in saying you are an arms dealer. Having watched this Australian satirical commentator sneaking into an arms conference it occurred to me it would be funny to see you go into one of those and try to sell swords to people jajaja
It's best because it's copied from the French :D