Hyundai Kona winter range and noise
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Range at 90 km/h, 56 mph: 330 km, 205 mi
Range at 120 km/h, 75 mph: 250 km, 155 mi
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I found this info on the Speak EV site:
- Kona does not actively heat the battery in temperatures at least down to -4 C outside air / -2 C battery when it is just parked or driving. Even with Winter Mode "on".
- Fast charging the battery in the same conditions with Winter Mode "off" does not activate active heating.
- Fast charging at these temps with Winter Mode "on" immediately turns on battery heater.
- Fast charging is limited to 25 kW until the battery minimum temperature reaches +5 C.
- It takes 21 minutes to get battery minimum temperature from -2 C to +5 C in these conditions.
- Kona battery is not very well thermally insulated. Battery temperature reached 23-24 C after the charge and after 14 hours of standing in -4 C battery modules temperatures were in the range of 0..4 C.
This info matches my experience with the Kona so far. I have 2000 km of winter driving between Vancouver, Whistler, and central BC. Temperature has ranged from plus 5 to -15. If the car is warm, I always see 43kWh below 74%. If the car is cold, I see 23kWh, and then it jumps to 43kWh. So far I'm averaging 18kWh / 100 km, with roof rack and and ski box.
So if you drove for an hour or so, was the battery always warm enough in freezing temperatures to accept the 43 kW speed? I'm looking to buy a Kona in Finland right now and with winter approaching I'm very skeptical of the charging performance in freezing temperatures.
@@veeaa I'm not certain, but I think the answer is that sometimes the car is limited to 25kW, but it generally is able to charge at 35kW or 43kW. No promises!
@@darylremmler705 Thanks! I'm counting on your word ;)
Compared to my 2017 Bolt the Kona's winter range is outstanding. At those speeds and temps the Bolt s range is in the 130-140 Mile range. The heating system is terrible using upto 7,500 watts on the Bolt. I ended up removing the cabin air filter and inserting a 1000 watt PTC heater in it's place . Works great down to about 15 degrees F and I increase range by 40+ miles
Knowing how drivers in Canada are, the Kona does not go out in winter weather. We have a ICE beater with snow tires for that demolition derby.
It's almost Christmas and our 2021 Kona EV is into its first winter. Not too cold yet; about the lowest temp so far has been
just a few degrees below freezing. Haven't had a chance to do a real winter highway trip yet (Covid restrictions don't help) but at temps hovering around the 0 C level, I'd extrapolate range to be a little under 400 km. Efficiency appears to have dropped about 15% -- around the same as fossil-fuel powered cars experience in similar conditions.
One power saving trick I've learned is to set the climate control as low as it will go, which is +17.5 C. In winter we're all wearing heavier clothing anyway, and I've found 17.5 C to be a comfortable enough cabin temperature. Last summer, when high temps were the problem (up to +38 C) I went the opposite way and set the A/C climate control to +23 C. In light clothing that's an acceptable temperature and doesn't cause an unnecessary drain on the battery. Another big power-saver of course is to keep one's speed moderate -- no more than 100 kmh -- and take advantage of regeneration wherever you can. I use the Bluelink App which gives me a lot of info about the car, including power usage and regeneration. In the past month I discovered, to my astonishment, that 30% of the power my EV consumed, was regenerated. Mind, that was nearly all town driving where regeneration is a lot more active. But still, pretty impressive, I thought...
Usefull info. Thanks! I will probably also order a Kona :D
So it seems that Hyundai gives the net battery capacity, while Audi gives the gross capacity in their official data sheets? Of course the Kona still is more efficient than the e-tron. But to be fair, we cannot say "Kona has 64 kWh and the same range as the Audi with 95kWh". Instead it should be "Kona has 64kWh and the same range es the Audi with 84 kWh"
And the Audi weighs 900kg more?
@@richard--s on high speed it depend on wind on low speed weight is massive different. audi also more powerful
Weight is always a factor. I don't think u can put together Audi, Jag and Tesla as they are much larger and heavier. Besides, Optimus Prime made only 300 km at 10C otside temp, slightly higher speed and it's with 90 kw battery. I guess all manufacturers will chase a goal 450-500 sommer range and 300-350 winter.
The charging power reduction when it's so cold is what I am seeing on my I Pace. I drove 185 kms from Valdres to a fast charger in Bærum, temp. was approx -10c all the way. Charge rate after 8 mins was 28.5kW (SOC 44%) and after 16 mins 41kW (SOC 47%) Estimate was 3.5hrs to charge to 100%. However, when I repeated the charge test a few days later at -7c with the car not driven hard and pre-conditioned for only 1.5 hours, the charge rate after 16 mins was only 31kW and time to charge to 100% SOC was 3hrs 7 minutes. It seems to me that the I-Pace and the Kona even though they have heated battery packs have issues maintaining an optimal battery temperature when the temperature is < -5 . When this cold, as your video shows the charging power for the Kona is being throttled. That being said, even though so cold (-15 when I left) consumption for 185km was 22.7kW/100km. Height difference from start to finish 980m and dry road conditions. So 325km would have been max driving range that day. Issue is that if you have a long trip and need to charge from say 20% to 80% its going to take probably 2.5 hours which is totally unacceptable when this cold. I don't think a 100kW charger (if available would help) unless the battery would heat up faster, which I don't think would be the case. So a long tip in Norway with the temperature under -5c is a challenge. So much for testing the I Pace in northern Sweden. Should have tested driving from Oslo to Bergen and return at this time of the year and told us how long they spent charging.
ill do highspeed test in germany in a week when i finally get the kona!
Nintendonator please give us your review! I am a likely buyer and would be very interested. Thanks!
It was so nice to get such a lot of information in one short video, thanks Bjørn! How much range do you lose in a Tesla at cold temperatures like that?
Kona at 120kph is MUTCH MORE efficient than the E-tron at 90kph
What a shame Audi
Maybe "Coldgate" is caused by the fact that the battery protrudes out of the car underfloor (Kia e-Niro is the same). The windchill at minus temperatures hence impacts the battery more directly. Possibly the battery heating is also too weak under these conditions despite "Winter mode".
Wind chill doesn't change the temperature. If it's minus 12 and the wind is blowing 60 kmh, it's still minus 12. At 11:45 it's showing 0 kwh used for battery care. Not sure if it's off or doesn't have a heater
-14! I'm glad I don't live in Norway. Your country is beautiful and I have visited it (in summer). But I hate cold weather.
Never go to Canada!
@@bjornnyland Or to Oymyakon. :-)
In Toronto today we have -25 C ( -40 with wind-chill). -14 feels like spring:)
@@Larss70 -25 in Toronto!? But that's the most southern part of Canada!! What's it like up north??
I've met an Australian pensioner once at a beach in Greece. He has a house there where he lives from May till September/October each year. The rest of the year he lives in Australia. Now that I can relate to! I need to safe up for my pension...
That's pretty good range loss for that temperature versus the rated range of 415 km (?) or 258 miles. I come out with only 23%. Relative to your summer test, however, it's 35%, but that's still good considering how much faster you drove in the cold weather test.
How does it look like when we park at work and it will be -10 or more outside? How many % of the battery will lose after such 8-10h of parking?
They would be a good choice but in 2023 the dealers are marking them up insanely... up to 30% additional markup so I just walk away will wait until there are better options to buy electric here in the USA.
This doesnt surprise me at all. My model 3 in Ontario, Canada is averaging a 35% range loss. Temps have been very similar to this video.
this seems to be more serious than rapid gate...especially in colder country.
Not really, the rapid gate forces the battery often to high temperature, and this is bad for SOH in time. The cold gate, only brings more charging time in the coldest weeks, but not influence the SOH.
@@yodagerhard8389 well you have the point but i mean using it this is more pain than rapid gate...
@@hollymolly518 , not really, i have 3 cold weeks, the rest of the year is ok.
like a ninja! 3:40 ...
So for the winter mode, there's room to think that it has active heating. But I suspect that eco will disable it. Throw some light on it Bjorn.
+Alvaro Gala Gonzalez I didn't use eco.
Oh, this is an aspect, i never thougth on this. So you mean in "Comfort Mode" battery heating could be on, on eco off?
What i really hate is, that we get so few info from Hyundai about all this things.
This is really a bad service of information. Even the dealers have no info about this all.
@@bjornnyland I know, I know!!! (well I actually realized a bit late 😂) but what I really mean is, is there any setting that would speed up / throttle / disable the active heating even with winter mode? I suggest you to dig in a bit now that you have the chance, you may be one of the most trusted sources in the field :)
Same as E-Tron!
Not really, since it was colder during this test.
At the same outside temp, Kona would beat e-tron.
That is very surprising
@@TheSweMusicMan It looked like an average of -12C, and E-tron average was -5C? Not going to make 10% difference
@@dmitchellhomes E tron is bigger and heavier, but never thought these would eat the extra 30kw in the battery pack! (65kwh vs 95kwh)
@@frankxu2321 Bjorn measured battery available capacity of the E-Tron at 82.6 kWh making the difference + OR - 18 kWh or just over 25%. The E-tron is what percentage larger and heavier? E-Tron is also All Wheel Drive, and the quietest EV Bjorn has ever tested, all of which take away from the efficiency.
Very disappointed with the charge rate. Why the 2kw battery heater isn’t warming the battery doesn’t make sense it’s as bad as rapid gate.
There's no escaping the fact that conventional lithium-ion batteries with a liquid electrolyte suffer big capacity losses in freezing temperatures. It's one of the biggest drawbacks of current BEVs. The problem probably won't be solved completely until we have solid-state batteries.
This is not a problem with Tesla Model X, Model S, Audi e-tron, Hyundai Ioniq, Kia Soul EV and many other EVs. They can charge on full speed even in freezing cold temperatures. The coldate is a result of poor engineering and shortcuts.
@@bjornnyland , i agree ...
Kia/Hyundai must fix this Coldgate asap
Arlandanights kia E-Niro has a battery mode where you can use the battery heater and watm it properly
There is no "coldgate." All vehicles, gas or electric lose fuel economy in the winter. In -17 you could expect to lose about 30% or more fuel economy on a petrol or diesel. The Kia and Hyundai EV's have a battery heating system, and that's about all they can do to mitigate the effects of the cold.
The Kona quite efficient, but then again the e-tron is a full-sized luxury SUV.
That's kind of gloating how the Kona 1.6T gets better fuel economy than a Q8 3.0T. Kind of a silly comparison.
The battery sizes are quite different though...
I hope they don't clean that car with Colgate.
First 🤠
I wish I had an electric car but they wont work in third world countries
Man, my Kona won't even go outside when it's that cold.
:D
not a good snow car eh? now awd either and low ground clearance?
damn my leaf 40 kwh so far so good in winter i got snow tires on it lol
Freezing my balls here in Canada -30 Celsius.
Great range although freaking cold. My B250E would only do 100km. Great Video Björn.
35% range drop in winter, on -15C? Not bad at all. Climate control use more than 6 kwh in this test, so in the slightly better winter condition, about zero, range should be 360 km
I assume the following: 50% of an Ev's stated range is able to be used in the summer regularly. 35% of an Ev's stated range is safe for regular use in the winter. If you follow those guidelines, then the EV should have very similar range 5 years down the road...
I've a brand new KonaE 64KWH, since yesterday. In Netherlands it was about zero (between minus one an plus 2 during the day). I made without loading 380 kilometers yesterday. Temp at 19 degrees. Speed 101on the ascc (should be 95@GPS but still unchecked , I assume that because Tesla Bjorn always put 96 for driving 90 on his KonaE) Because of traffic the speed changed a littlebit during the drive. In the battery left about 20 km.
The drop should be 10% but you need to activate heating everything and set the departure time, so you leave with battery and car warm, without spending trip energy for this.
Any videos on the traction performance driving in 20cm deep snow?
I think they should do something with the charging price, a combination of minutes and kw. Or just pay for the kwh.
This sort of video is immensely useful. Thank you! I'll be driving that exact model of Kona soon, in the UK. Our winters here in the South usually only get as cold as maybe 0 C, although recently it has gone down to -5 C. Given that my longest journey is likely to be 170 miles (270km), I am not too worried.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Thinking of buying one over in Canada where it's frequently been about -10 to -15C all winter. I am curious though, how much energy would be used if you had your heated seat and steering wheel on low, or medium (whatever is comfortable), with HVAC set to 15, instead. Just curious what the draw would be compared to just HVAC at a higher temp.
I didn't know Krell made car audio systems too. They are mostly known for their very expensive high end home audio equipment.
So. I haven’t bought my first EV yet, I am intensely researching, ready to pull the trigger, but can’t quite afford a model 3. (hence, I am here watching video after video, finding amongst others these Bjørn Nyland videos, judging from the videos he lives a few hundred meters down the street, the world is so small)
But I feel there is something I must have missed!
Can someone please explain to me how on earth a Kona can be so much more expensive than an Ioniq?
Barely used Ioniqs can be had for about NOK 250,000 while you will have to cash out NOK 400,000 for a Kona.
The Ioniq is bigger, better looking, a purpose build EV, much more Cargo space, but has half the range of the Kona.
Yet the Kona- range is not nearly enough for typical «non-stop» cross country Bergen-Trondheim-Oslo-Stavanger-axis driving anyway, so the whole issue is a couple of extra 30 mins stops once or twice a year for most people.
So how on earth can that make a SMALLER car from the same manufacturer at the exact same trim level be seen as a step up for so many at 150% the price?
Someone explain this to me!
From everything I have seen the Ioniq seems like such a winner in the sub-tesla daily use family car category.
Am I wrong?
AviF Yes, I get the battery is bigger, but that shouldn’t mean that much in practice for most people. Maybe people THINK it do? It explains why those cars are more expensive but not why they are popular while being expensive. I think the Ioniq looks pretty much spot on!
Like a Tesla 3 for people with normal incomes.
Only wish it could have looked a bit more futuristic, as I absolutely HATE dinosaur cars, but nevermind, it still really stands out for me as the best real life option out there. I just don’t get how expensive and ineffecient alternatives like the Kona and Niro can be seen as the next big thing and sooooo attractive.
Only 10% loss on heating (90 km/h, 2 kW heating for 3:19 hrs) at -10 to -17 C is not too bad. The loss of performance of the battery however is significant.
Is there a table (Google Sheets, perhaps?) where we can refer to the past results and compare other EVs you have tested?
If you look under the Kona EV you see that the battery is kind of clamped onto the car under the floor. So, I suspect that maybe the thermal insulation is limited which might account for the "coldgate" situation. In cold weather the battery is a lot cooler.
thats right, but is on all cars with bigger batteries the same.
Noise Test? On which tires? I switched from the original Nexen to Kleber Winter tires. What a silence!
Someone interested in 215/55R17 Nexen Woodlogs?
Did you buy an extra set of the stock Kona EV rims? Or did you get something more basic at the risk of loosing a little range to aero drag/weight? I'm looking for options for when I get my Kona in December. Thanks!
Did you have any trouble driving it in the snow? I'm afraid of the lack of double motors / no all-wheel drive.
EVs are excellent in the snow because electric motors can add or remove power in fractions of a second with the traction control
Driving 140 in the 110 zone is way more expensive than €300 in speeding ticket I think 😁
Ok so I just checked, and it's 8500 NOK for going 140 in the 110 zone, and 10 200 NOK for going 141 in the 110 zone.
So just multiply that by 10 to get EUR.
You mean divide by 10. Also something to keep in mind, at those speeds you get 3 points on your drivers license @@AgentSmith911
@@Noi5ee true
Anyone have any experience or recommendations for winter tire/rim combos? I'm thinking of getting 16" rims or steel wheels (specs: 16X6.5 5-114.3 67.1CB I think?)with a set of tires measuring 215/60R16 (0.59% faster) or 205/65R16 (0.69% slower) tires. The Michelin - X-Ice Xi3 seemed reasonable here at Costco.
Hi Björn, do you think that this test could be similar to the E-Niro?
I am not Bjørn, but I think so.
3:33 The moment we've all been waiting for...
6:57 actually :p
Hey TeslaBjorn
Have you tested summer tires? What kind o summer tires do you suggest for I-pace? I’m picking up one in April/May and probably I can ask for tires I would like to have. I mean the least noisy.
Are WLTP number on pair with real world driving?
Oh wow 40% less range than WLTP during winter 😮
Dear Björn. Thank you for your clip. a great pity. But the battery has a cooling and so it could be heated. Glycol flows through the battery and there is a reservoir in the engine compartment. So you could build an immersion heater in the tank and heat up the battery when needed. Since Hyundai has to improve again.
Kona VS E-tron 1000km 👍🏻👍🏻
I would like to see that
Hey Teslabjorn..you are in danger of becomming non-tesla bjorn...
I wonder which is harder on range weather wise extreme cold or extreme heat
Extreme heat is bad for battery life in years, extreme cold is bad for range that day.
Hi Bjørn, I think that the Kona you are testing is a Pre-model.
According to this article the Kona should have heating for the battery pack. But then again I might be wrong😉
electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/exclusive-details-on-hyundais-new-battery-thermal-management-design/
This is not a pre production model.
Only the front axle weighs almost as much as an entire VW e-up!
I seems the battery box needs better thermal insulation. I gather the figure of 89% is the battery charge/discharge efficiency? Is there a source for that data? I've measured 89% including on-board charger efficiency but that's over mid range SoCs in ideal thermal conditions, not the full span.
Lithium ion is supposed to be in the upper 90 percent efficiency. They may be including the efficiency of the onboard charger.
2:06 ... Now let's start the fundraising. Which platform to use? Kickstarter?
Not that cold, pretty typical temp for Canada.
Could someone tell me what the charges cost after e.g. 10.000km and how much kWh you were accounted for?
Why don’t you get new job electric fix guy hhh
Can you test the noise level and consumption test in a Tesla model s pre-, and post facelift?
I wonder if that’s a pre production model? As very old car maybe it doesn’t have the newer heat pump? However -12c is very cold
This is not a pre production model.
It has 67 kWh but only 64 usable kWh
Turn OFF wintermode and you will have full power charging
It makes no difference, this is the crazy thing.
So i really believe no battery heating is done also in winter moder.
Did you see a value on "battery care" ? Or was this always 0
I think it not heats the accu, this is a bug on Kona.
No heater build in the fluid TMS, or software bug.
+Prom Prometheus Always 0. As explained in live stream.
@@bjornnyland , thanks you Björn, i think it never heats the battery.
Yesterday (with EVNotify) i saw, that my Kona (out of the garage) had 13 grad C, inlet temp, temp max and temp min also 13 C. After a while 50 km driving (winter mode on) the inlet Temp goes to 5 C down. Temp min to 12 C and temp max remains on 13 C.
There is no heating.
(The outside Temp was 5 C around).
i drive also in ECO Mode. Maybe really in ECO mode is no battery heating.
I schould test, if it heats the battery in Comfort mode. But i think not.
Only thinkings ...
No info from Hyundai, bad Hyundai info service.
Did you turn on winter battery mode? It heats the battery up, its in the battery settings. Should have turned it on before going to the charger.
3:19
You could see it was on when he was going through the settings
I asked in the live-stream, he had winter mode on all the time.
@@bjornnyland That's a bummer, would of thought that would help.
@@bjornnyland 11:45 show 0 kwh for battery care. If you have it on something is broken.
Please do I’d love to see that video where it’s a 0 degrees
We have - 35 C today state Minnesota
Hi, have you received OP?
เก่งๆๆ
What should I buy? Kona or Niro?
+Wyatt Mullin e-Niro
@@bjornnyland long time watcher, why the Niro is it more efficient? Or more space? Thanks!
Haa-raaaawrrrr...Tuesday?
👍😊
👍👍
Looking to make the Kona EV my next car and boy am I glad that I live in Southern California. The coldest it's been is during the day in the last few weeks has been around 50f/10c.
KIA/Hyundai should make an effort to market Niro/Kona in tropical countries like Malaysia. In Kuala Lumpur, the "coldest" morning you might come across here is around 25°C. At noon it could be around 34°C. There should not be any coldgate problem.
Can you do these tests on upcoming hydrogen cars as well?
Doesnt the active heating work properly or even worser: Is there none?
3:19
As far as I understand it the BMS applies heating in wintermode only below -10 degrees and below SOC 30% to prevent the car from falling to turtle mode because of lack of power form the batterypack. But I suppose it doesn't heat the pack to 15 degrees but something like zero degrees.
@@rutgergooszen9774 it does heat up the battery in cold conditions and I got 43 kW up till 70ish % at -28 degrees. I also got the same at -10 and -6 degrees( my commute is 160 km's a direction so I have had my share of testing). I also see the heater to work in those temps.
@@Larionof3 Ok it's not cold enough here in NL to test it but good to hear it does something at least.
@@rutgergooszen9774 hoe bevalt de kona? Is hij eerste model?
I was wondering what that app you were using on your phone?
This should be labeled as extreme conditions range test. Thanks for valuable info. Good stuff!
Wow, did not beat the E-Tron...
At these outside temps e-tron would not reach 330km like the Kona.
Bjørn comments on it at the end of the video.
@@TheSweMusicMan Bjorn guessing is not a data point... lets wait and see a re-test of the Kona, maybe Bjorn can test a few different days and figure out multipliers for different temps?
I can bet my hat that Kona has better range than e-tron in any speed and in any temperature.
@@bjornnyland I am sure Kona will beat the E-Tron in range too, but by how much? 10% 5%? E-Tron is impressive though from a luxury standpoint, and that is where my interest lies, won't be buying a Kona. I had ordered an I-Pace but cancelled and ordered E-Tron, It seems my decision will get rewarded. :)
@@dmitchellhomes etron consumes much more and cost twice price. Not sure how you can be happy.
Lucky your not having to test it in the Midwest of America, As they said on the News that a north pole polar vortex has drifted down through Canada to the Midwest and the Cold now there is between -50 C and -70 C .. Yikes that would most likely kill the battery unless it was in a heated garage maybe? I guessing EV drivers over in the cold states of America will be pleased for the good traction and torque the EV's have But not about the super cold weather there which makes what you just driven in look like lovely mild weather :)
It's damn cold there now - too cold, even! But it's not luckily not *that* cold. The polar vortex has covered lots of Canada and the northern Midwest with temperatures of -30 C to -40 C (or -22 F to -40 F, if you will). -70 C is unusually cold on a global scale. That's colder than the coldest temperature ever on record in all of Canada.
They have tried electric cars in Northern Norway at the coldest parts of the winter. Up there, they idle their fossil cars for days when it's at its coldest to keep the engine oil warm and running, so that the engine won't seize up from the sub -40 C temperatures. An article talked about a BMW i3, however, that started cold in -43 C and drove without any problem, relatively speaking (some yellow warning lights turned on or whatever, but the car functioned like normal). In other words, the Hyundai Kona electric might actually have functioned remarkably well in -40 C weather, considering your fossil car might not even start. :)
Ironically EVs with current battery technology may not be viable just when they are most needed. That type of cold snap is not going to go away for decades to come.
4th
first?
Why not comparing a Kona EV vs a Kona ICE under the same circumstances. That would give a nice outcome. I bet your fuel cost would be about the same and the co2 emission too.
Charging an Ev is co2 = 0
this is completly nonsense.
And all we had ICE cars and are knowing that in such cold whether it needs also a lot more of gas.
@@yodagerhard8389 Haha.... Where do you think your charge comes from? 1kWh electricity out of combined coal, gas and dieselfuel = 650gr Co2 1kWh out of gas = 294gr Co2
Fossil fuels are primary fuels. Electricity isn't. The efficiency to produce electricity is only about 40%
@@sneltochheheheh7618 Have you ever been to Norway ?Electricty produced by: 96% Hydro power 2% Wind-power 2% Biofuel. Read up before you comment
@@palleericsson8939 I know what you said, but only Norway and a handfull other countries like Switserland are in the comfortable situation to be able to produce substantial amounts of Hydro-energy. BTW Norway imports a lot of gray produced electricity i.e. from Holland to pump up the water back into the basins, at an efficiency cost of over 80%, so thats not exactly Co2 neutral. I also wouldn't be to proud of Biofuel, because it causes very high cropprices which a lot of people in Africa cann't afford and which causes mortality among these people. Only when we"ll be able to produce a massiv amount of renewable energy EV's are the way to go. Worldwide we produce only 1% renewable energy at an extremely high cost. So we'll have a long way to go and therefore EV's are not the Holy Grale as a lot of people suggest.
@@sneltochheheheh7618 ICE is 20 percent efficient. Even a coal powered plant is 70 percent efficient. I guess you don't have a clue about the process used to clean the exhaust from a power plant. Please educate yourself before making lame comments. It's makes you look very uneducated