Very clearly explained and demonstrated. I love watching your hand\finger work. Love the sound of the Steinway piano. I get completely absorbed in your "work" that I never hear any "distractions" I love the fact that I can replay your videos. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us.
Wow! That "finger technique" Bach invention sounded just the way I play it. The rotation-enabled version sounds much better, especially in terms of phrasing. I'll be exploring this technique immediately!
Hello, thanks for the video. My question is, when you do rotation in the scale (or in some other exercise to practice this), do you also use fingers movement? I mean, is it a combination or it's just rotation? I need to know if the intention of the movement comes from the arm or from from the top of your fingers when you practice this. Thanks!
In case your questions is still actual... Finger movements are the must, and fingers lifting and falling motions initiate rotation motion of forward. In another words, forearm response to fingers motion in the same time and in the same direction. Otherwise you'll find your fingers dead after some time if the rotation was initiated only by forearm. However, in teaching, if student has very rigid forearm and can't move freely one should spend some time concentrating only on forearm rotation movement in order to perform it right and free from any tense. After this step one should synchronize fingers and forearm movements.
Thank you very much Mr Fitch for your two videos on rotation. I believe I am now using rotation for single notes. How does rotation work for chords e.g. Czerny Allegretto (Ex 3) ? I look forward to your third video.
I have been feeling a small amount of pain in my wrists and forearms lately, so I started looking for a logical prevention of injuries in the future and taking a break for now. Rotation does look and sound very natural. But, my question is: can you use this method all of the time? I have been trying to do this with Chopin Polonaise Op.26 Nr.1 and I was not succesful (playing veeeery slow). Or does it just take more time to learn it? Thank you!!!
I really can't understand how you can manage to do a fast scale with forearm double rotations.. Until you play the scale slow it is clear the movement, but then when you play the scale fast there aren't double forearm rotations. It is impossible to do that in a fast scale . This is a crucial point that i thought of already in the past when i discovered for the first time taubman methods about rotations. So I would really appreciate if this mistery with rotation scales would be addressed. In the past I remember I had somewhere in the net discussions about this and it ended that it's more a mental way of thinking the scale but you don't actually do those movements when playing fast scales. Anyway, I would really like to thank you Graham for the wonderful job you are doing here extending all your precious technical knowledge to us. Your videos are really piano life changing! Finally I can understand what it means using the wrist and forearm!
Don't know if this helps so many months later but after reading up on the Taubman approach myself it seems that the idea is to still use forearm rotation even at the higher speeds. The trouble in his demonstration is that he's over exaggerating the movements to show us visually what is happening but once the underlying principle is understood, you then continually minimize the amount of rotation to achieve higher speeds. Exaggerate the motion to learn how it feels but then minimize (not discard) that same motion for efficiency.
I have the same reservations concerning Taubman Technique and speed. There simply is not time to double rotate and in practice it actually becomes rotation away from the thumb (ascending) encompassing fingers two and three, single back towards thumb and then a single rotation away from the thumb encompassing fingers two, three and four, a single back to thumb and so on, and similar group rotations on the way down. This is not to say Taubman generally is not an excellent way to play though.
The mystery is that the right movements, very small amount combined with another are totally invisible in speed. The idea of rotation and the main goal is to facilitate fingers motions when forearm response to fingers motions moving in the same direction in the very same time or in another words synchronised or coordinated. Because many of pianists come from isolated finger training a la Czerny "active fingers and still arm" arm actually became very rigid and incapable or restricted to perform any movement. Rotation is the only movement of forearm as fast as fingers lifting up and down, and goal is to share or distribute efforts between fingers and forearm in right proportion and right amount. All these movements are so tiny that you can't tell what pianist do just by looking at his hand.
@@IliaTishkovPiano I am a totally mediocre pianist, so my opinion could be absolutely wrong and I'm fine with it, but I have to agree with the previous comments about this technique reguarding fast scales. I totally understand that what it's shown in this video is for educational purpose and so the speed and range of the rotation is obviously exaggerated, but still, a small "pronation" of the hand before playing the next note (in the example of a scale from left to right) will always move your finger in an opposite direction, and even on an incredibly small scale it will require time (I'm talking about milliseconds here), so I don't really see how can this technique be as fast as (or even faster as someone says) than a normal "Czerny" technique. It's a matter of simple logic really: if by using a normal technique (no rotations) my hand goes from left to right and my fingers fall into the keys one by one, that will take a specific amount of time, and if I have to make a pronation rotation before every finger strike the key that will, no matter what, add some time to the execution (again, I know we are talking about milliseconds here bu still..). That being said, I surely can see and understand how this technique is less impactfull on your arms, so I'm not saying it's bad or anything, I'm just doubting some of the claims I read about the Taubman technique, which is basically what is described here.
@@crazyRyoga It's not about time, it's all about effort. Traditional "Czerny" technic grew up from his own remark to his etudes "active fingers with quite arm" which many people misunderstood like "static" arm or even "rigid" arm. Because if you think about "not moving your arm" (which suppose to be a "quite arm") you will end up with certain amount of restriction to arm movement. Such restriction will interfere both with fingers up-down movements and lateral arm movements. Taubman technic is about a) how to synchronize fingers movements with arm movements in one time and in one direction, b) how to share efforts between limb parts. Two main principles of TT - every limb part should do what it capable to do the best, AND fingers, hand and arm must work together as a unit. Moving in coordinated way will remove any burdens and restrictions of playing apparatus. Mediocre technic is a result of tension within the hand which limits freedom of movement and requires more time for movements itself and for muscles to rest. Another word for tension is "dual muscular pulls". Every time when your fingers are moving down and arm is hovering up you will end up with tension. Every time when your fingers have to move sideways (more then they capable to do without efforts) AND play down you will end up with tension. Every time when fingers have to jump and the arm is not very cooperative with their intention you will end up with tension. UNLESS fingers and arm movements are not perfectly synchronized in one time and in one direction. The study of piano playing is the study of motions which allows you to achieve any color of sound in any speed without compromising both music or your body. TT is a huge body of knowledge how to move properly in order to achieve whatever you want. There's something you should try by yourself and feel the difference. It would be great if somebody who already has a good experience in TT can take a look at your playing in close and in personal. If you still have questions you're always welcome.
A really clear, detailed and well thought-through explanation of forearm rotation. Very helpful. When playing repeated notes, the rotation is demonstrated, but because it is at speed it is scarcely visible and I am not clear precisely where the pronation and supination fits into the note pattern, assuming RH 1-2-3-4 fingering? All the other examples are broken down brilliantly, so there is no doubt. Any ideas?
No answer for four years... If you still need some help find on UA-cam video named: "Playing fast repeated notes with ease: Scarlatti sonata in d minor" by Edna Golandsky
![Forearm Rotation at the Piano [Foundations of Technique, Part 3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cx8wpfFCwms/mqdefault.jpg)
Very clearly explained and demonstrated.
I love watching your hand\finger work.
Love the sound of the Steinway piano.
I get completely absorbed in your "work" that I never hear any "distractions"
I love the fact that I can replay your videos.
Thank you for sharing your expertise with us.
Your videos are alway so helpful to me ! I watch them again and again, every time after I watch I get new things from them
This video (and the last one) are super helpful - definitely going to have to try out some of these techniques!
Maybe you can do a video on them too ;3
Even though these techniques have been espoused before, I enjoy very much Fitch's pedagogical style! Thank you for these videos!
Wow! That "finger technique" Bach invention sounded just the way I play it. The rotation-enabled version sounds much better, especially in terms of phrasing. I'll be exploring this technique immediately!
Right in the Golansky, Taubman alley. They emphasise heavily on forearm rotations, in and out, and shaping.
Mindblown
Hello, thanks for the video. My question is, when you do rotation in the scale (or in some other exercise to practice this), do you also use fingers movement? I mean, is it a combination or it's just rotation? I need to know if the intention of the movement comes from the arm or from from the top of your fingers when you practice this. Thanks!
In case your questions is still actual... Finger movements are the must, and fingers lifting and falling motions initiate rotation motion of forward. In another words, forearm response to fingers motion in the same time and in the same direction. Otherwise you'll find your fingers dead after some time if the rotation was initiated only by forearm. However, in teaching, if student has very rigid forearm and can't move freely one should spend some time concentrating only on forearm rotation movement in order to perform it right and free from any tense. After this step one should synchronize fingers and forearm movements.
Which fingers are you using for the fast repetition of a single note in this video?
Thank you very much Mr Fitch for your two videos on rotation. I believe I am now using rotation for single notes. How does rotation work for chords e.g. Czerny Allegretto (Ex 3) ? I look forward to your third video.
I have been feeling a small amount of pain in my wrists and forearms lately, so I started looking for a logical prevention of injuries in the future and taking a break for now. Rotation does look and sound very natural. But, my question is: can you use this method all of the time? I have been trying to do this with Chopin Polonaise Op.26 Nr.1 and I was not succesful (playing veeeery slow). Or does it just take more time to learn it? Thank you!!!
I really can't understand how you can manage to do a fast scale with forearm double rotations.. Until you play the scale slow it is clear the movement, but then when you play the scale fast there aren't double forearm rotations. It is impossible to do that in a fast scale . This is a crucial point that i thought of already in the past when i discovered for the first time taubman methods about rotations. So I would really appreciate if this mistery with rotation scales would be addressed. In the past I remember I had somewhere in the net discussions about this and it ended that it's more a mental way of thinking the scale but you don't actually do those movements when playing fast scales. Anyway, I would really like to thank you Graham for the wonderful job you are doing here extending all your precious technical knowledge to us. Your videos are really piano life changing! Finally I can understand what it means using the wrist and forearm!
Don't know if this helps so many months later but after reading up on the Taubman approach myself it seems that the idea is to still use forearm rotation even at the higher speeds. The trouble in his demonstration is that he's over exaggerating the movements to show us visually what is happening but once the underlying principle is understood, you then continually minimize the amount of rotation to achieve higher speeds. Exaggerate the motion to learn how it feels but then minimize (not discard) that same motion for efficiency.
I have the same reservations concerning Taubman Technique and speed. There simply is not time to double rotate and in practice it actually becomes rotation away from the thumb (ascending) encompassing fingers two and three, single back towards thumb and then a single rotation away from the thumb encompassing fingers two, three and four, a single back to thumb and so on, and similar group rotations on the way down. This is not to say Taubman generally is not an excellent way to play though.
The mystery is that the right movements, very small amount combined with another are totally invisible in speed. The idea of rotation and the main goal is to facilitate fingers motions when forearm response to fingers motions moving in the same direction in the very same time or in another words synchronised or coordinated. Because many of pianists come from isolated finger training a la Czerny "active fingers and still arm" arm actually became very rigid and incapable or restricted to perform any movement. Rotation is the only movement of forearm as fast as fingers lifting up and down, and goal is to share or distribute efforts between fingers and forearm in right proportion and right amount. All these movements are so tiny that you can't tell what pianist do just by looking at his hand.
@@IliaTishkovPiano I am a totally mediocre pianist, so my opinion could be absolutely wrong and I'm fine with it, but I have to agree with the previous comments about this technique reguarding fast scales. I totally understand that what it's shown in this video is for educational purpose and so the speed and range of the rotation is obviously exaggerated, but still, a small "pronation" of the hand before playing the next note (in the example of a scale from left to right) will always move your finger in an opposite direction, and even on an incredibly small scale it will require time (I'm talking about milliseconds here), so I don't really see how can this technique be as fast as (or even faster as someone says) than a normal "Czerny" technique. It's a matter of simple logic really: if by using a normal technique (no rotations) my hand goes from left to right and my fingers fall into the keys one by one, that will take a specific amount of time, and if I have to make a pronation rotation before every finger strike the key that will, no matter what, add some time to the execution (again, I know we are talking about milliseconds here bu still..).
That being said, I surely can see and understand how this technique is less impactfull on your arms, so I'm not saying it's bad or anything, I'm just doubting some of the claims I read about the Taubman technique, which is basically what is described here.
@@crazyRyoga It's not about time, it's all about effort. Traditional "Czerny" technic grew up from his own remark to his etudes "active fingers with quite arm" which many people misunderstood like "static" arm or even "rigid" arm. Because if you think about "not moving your arm" (which suppose to be a "quite arm") you will end up with certain amount of restriction to arm movement. Such restriction will interfere both with fingers up-down movements and lateral arm movements. Taubman technic is about a) how to synchronize fingers movements with arm movements in one time and in one direction, b) how to share efforts between limb parts. Two main principles of TT - every limb part should do what it capable to do the best, AND fingers, hand and arm must work together as a unit. Moving in coordinated way will remove any burdens and restrictions of playing apparatus. Mediocre technic is a result of tension within the hand which limits freedom of movement and requires more time for movements itself and for muscles to rest. Another word for tension is "dual muscular pulls". Every time when your fingers are moving down and arm is hovering up you will end up with tension. Every time when your fingers have to move sideways (more then they capable to do without efforts) AND play down you will end up with tension. Every time when fingers have to jump and the arm is not very cooperative with their intention you will end up with tension. UNLESS fingers and arm movements are not perfectly synchronized in one time and in one direction. The study of piano playing is the study of motions which allows you to achieve any color of sound in any speed without compromising both music or your body. TT is a huge body of knowledge how to move properly in order to achieve whatever you want. There's something you should try by yourself and feel the difference. It would be great if somebody who already has a good experience in TT can take a look at your playing in close and in personal. If you still have questions you're always welcome.
Why do you keep your pinky up when you’re playing?
I can’t speak for him, but my pinky does the same thing.
@@ST52655 I was taught that is a bad thing because it means you are playing with tension
Sorry to say this but, the camera position doesn't help the learning :/ We cannot see your hands and see the technique
Brilliant!!!
Which piece is the introductory music?
Schumann's First piano sonata f sharp minor
A really clear, detailed and well thought-through explanation of forearm rotation. Very helpful. When playing repeated notes, the rotation is demonstrated, but because it is at speed it is scarcely visible and I am not clear precisely where the pronation and supination fits into the note pattern, assuming RH 1-2-3-4 fingering? All the other examples are broken down brilliantly, so there is no doubt. Any ideas?
No answer for four years... If you still need some help find on UA-cam video named: "Playing fast repeated notes with ease: Scarlatti sonata in d minor" by Edna Golandsky
next video:
ua-cam.com/video/yDtX4LO7NZU/v-deo.html