This alt init system is much faster to set up except for the AP (analysis paralysis) that players face. Too many players, these ones included, want to go first at all cost instead of doing the tactical or even thematical order. The Barbarian should have gone first imo.
I think Throwing is too over-powered... Grappling someone and then throwing them at the ground seems like it's just better than making normal attacks...
I think the issue is that there is stacking advantage coupled with tiers of success, aided by a party that can all lend Help Dice, along with character optimization options for enhancing this feature. When you stack it all up, you can pretty consistently make a crazy check, resisted or not because the creature getting grappled and thrown can’t pump anything into their roll to resist. This leads to a situation where you will pretty regularly be able to throw a creature excess squares than they have room to move resulting in damage that is higher than what you would have achieved if you pumped all of this into a weapon attack. I think there needs to be a damage cap to this or something where the material absorbs half the damage until it breaks and you go through the wall. Then you could make rules for how much damage certain things can absorb. It would work similarly to shared damage when you throw a creature into another creature.
@nathanaelthomas9243 stacking advantage is pretty baked in, and also has reduced impact after the first one (as is my understanding), and the whole party being able to help one character roll Massive Numbers is a Feature not a bug. I think the issue is more that the best thing to do well always be to throw the target at the ground for max damage. The intention of the throwing rules were likely to do crowd control, not to weaponize grapples. The easy solution is to cut the damage from limiting movement in half, so it would be a nice treat at the end, not the main course.
@@guamae Additional people helping has reduced returns, but to my knowledge, there’s no end to the number of D20s you can roll for advantage or disadvantage. I agree that these things are features, I don’t think they’re bugs, but they can be abused when it comes to grapples IMO. If I understand what you’re saying, I think we both agree, the damage might be a bit high and throwing people at the ground is kinda gimmicky and probably not how it was originally envisioned.
@@nathanaelthomas9243 I know helping multiple people in the same round has diminishing returns (first is a d8, second is a d6, exc); but I *think* if *everyone* helps, the person performing the action gets 3d8 extra..?? (there might be a hard limit on helping though.. I also suspect that being able to Help at range is unique to the Commander... who didn't attack at all during the combat 😲) My point about multiple Advantages not doing as much, is that even if you have Advantage x265, you're never going to roll higher than a 20. I played 7th Sea for half a year, and that system is based on "roll and keep", where you roll 5d10, for example, and 'keep' 3, potentially. And having two extra dice gets you a pretty big benefit, but when you have 5 extra dice, it's not that different.
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@davinci451 awesome! Hope you enjoy :)
Big ups for DC20, excited for 0.9 and hope it gets to where it wants to be within their timeframe.
Loving the DC20 coverage! I'd love to see the live plays of the other systems you test for your new channel!
I have been wanting to see a grapple and throwing or knockback build, so it's nice to see that it works, and you can get crazy with it
whoa! finally! a DC20 video. Thank you
Ots nice to see a play trough with 0.8. Can’t wait for 0.9. Go DC20!
This alt init system is much faster to set up except for the AP (analysis paralysis) that players face. Too many players, these ones included, want to go first at all cost instead of doing the tactical or even thematical order. The Barbarian should have gone first imo.
Just did this one shot for my party and had blast
great stuff! can you somehow link the your charactercheets? Would love to see the builds in detail
Sames!
Woohoo dc20!
I think Throwing is too over-powered... Grappling someone and then throwing them at the ground seems like it's just better than making normal attacks...
grappling is a resisted check. it's inherently worse
I think the issue is that there is stacking advantage coupled with tiers of success, aided by a party that can all lend Help Dice, along with character optimization options for enhancing this feature. When you stack it all up, you can pretty consistently make a crazy check, resisted or not because the creature getting grappled and thrown can’t pump anything into their roll to resist. This leads to a situation where you will pretty regularly be able to throw a creature excess squares than they have room to move resulting in damage that is higher than what you would have achieved if you pumped all of this into a weapon attack. I think there needs to be a damage cap to this or something where the material absorbs half the damage until it breaks and you go through the wall. Then you could make rules for how much damage certain things can absorb. It would work similarly to shared damage when you throw a creature into another creature.
@nathanaelthomas9243 stacking advantage is pretty baked in, and also has reduced impact after the first one (as is my understanding), and the whole party being able to help one character roll Massive Numbers is a Feature not a bug.
I think the issue is more that the best thing to do well always be to throw the target at the ground for max damage. The intention of the throwing rules were likely to do crowd control, not to weaponize grapples.
The easy solution is to cut the damage from limiting movement in half, so it would be a nice treat at the end, not the main course.
@@guamae Additional people helping has reduced returns, but to my knowledge, there’s no end to the number of D20s you can roll for advantage or disadvantage. I agree that these things are features, I don’t think they’re bugs, but they can be abused when it comes to grapples IMO.
If I understand what you’re saying, I think we both agree, the damage might be a bit high and throwing people at the ground is kinda gimmicky and probably not how it was originally envisioned.
@@nathanaelthomas9243 I know helping multiple people in the same round has diminishing returns (first is a d8, second is a d6, exc); but I *think* if *everyone* helps, the person performing the action gets 3d8 extra..?? (there might be a hard limit on helping though.. I also suspect that being able to Help at range is unique to the Commander... who didn't attack at all during the combat 😲)
My point about multiple Advantages not doing as much, is that even if you have Advantage x265, you're never going to roll higher than a 20. I played 7th Sea for half a year, and that system is based on "roll and keep", where you roll 5d10, for example, and 'keep' 3, potentially. And having two extra dice gets you a pretty big benefit, but when you have 5 extra dice, it's not that different.