I had a tomahawk and knife (training versions of course) fight at a hotel in San Francisco at a HEMA event several years ago. We were going hard and really trying to hit each other. It works as long as you know how to use angles and movement to your advantage.
*Jabs knife through armpit* "Now that didn't kill him so now we do this..." Say what! you pierced a major artery, pierced his lungs, depending on the angle maybe even his heart, not to mention cutting through the pectoral major when you knock him off..... he has about 30 seconds of life left and i promise he isn't fighting anymore lol
Dying is a long ways from dead. If I stab him in the armpit and he moves I may not get a good strike into his chest cavity. I'm a glance off his ribs. I might miss him entirely. I always train to follow up so I never go for one shot, and one shot only. Even if I do sever his artery and he is bleeding to death that's 15 to 25 seconds where he is going to be doing everything he possibly can to take me with him. I want to make sure that I caused so much structural damage, pain, and trauma that he is not thinking of me as I move on. If you read police and corner reports, you will see that there are many instances of what we would expect to be 'mortal wounds' that the person just kept fighting through.
@@temperedfangs1486 go for the knee to break their structure. We could go for the artery, but what if they're wearing deer hide pants, or heavy cotton or wool trousers? I may not be able to cut through that. Or if I do cut through that, it may not go deep enough into the flesh to hit the artery. By going for the knee I break them structurally. Then they cease to be a threat to me. If they can't stand or move they are much easier to either finish or move away from. Not everything is going to be a death stroke. Nor do I need everything to be a killing stroke. I need to take them out of the fight.
@@swordfightingschool Wow! thank you truly for debating with me most creators would ignore my comment, you debating me shows that you are very confident in your work and i respect that. However, i still somewhat disagree. if (hypothetically of course) the opponent is wearing trousers think enough to stop me from cutting the artery, in turn it would be enough to stop you from injuring the tendons in the knee with that same strike. and with a short weapon like a hatchet and knife to strike below the waist, you would either have to give up your stance or defense. you couldn't keep both. i feel that jamming the knife into a large target such as the liver would benefit you more. you make a vary good point about the under arm stab though. if you missed that stab though then your opponent gets a direct repost with their knife while both your hands are occupied. i do love hoe you teach students to get out of the way of the vertical swing however very good advice. would it not be more advantageous and significantly easier to do a simple block and counter with a direct thrust to the mid section instead of trying to preform a lock. in all my HEMA experience the chance of succeeding on a weapon imposed joint lock is slim to none. Once again thank you for the banter and i say everything with much respect to you and your institution. i look forward to hearing your thoughts,
@@temperedfangs1486 When we are going to attack the knee it is not to cut the tendons or anything like that. Instead what we are doing is braking their structure so that they lose the ability to move with speed or balance. If we break the side of the knee (it really doesn't take much pressure to break the knee on the side or tear the ACL or MCL) they will be much slower.
The probability of your opponent reacting in certain ways and where your attention and entire body is to "retaliate" appropriately is in you to be taped
question sir, how does doing the knife block at this 3:27? From my own knowledge blocking with a weapon that has more mass and power tends to break through the defense of the weapon that has less reach or mass (mainly knife or daggers). Also are there any books or writings that explain the use of Tomahawk or Tomahawk and knife?
Hello, sir - You are correct. You cannot stop a heavier weapon with a lighter weapon. If you watch the video I'm not talking about stopping the attack. I cut into the handle of the hatchet in the direction it was already moving. I want to guide the attack past me, not trying to stop the energy of the attack.
That's the secret, at 3.:36 "Nice and Slow" I'm not sure real life combat / life threatening situations are nice and slow, but pretty cool moves, bowie and tomahawk are the coolest combination
We practice slowly so that when we need the technique it 'just happens'. Practice slow, learn fast. We did another tomahawk video where the attack was done as a surprise attack at a dead run. The actions still worked. And I agree with you. Hawk and knife are a cool combination!
I was always taught to fight with the knife down the wrist to protect the tendons on the inside of the wrist. It allows you to use your fist, bolstered by the hilt, to slice, and on draw back to penetrate. Not sure that that has any use in this type of fighting. I have a number of knives, and experience with them. I have a couple tomahawks, but zero experience. I grasp the basic concepts, but this is interesting using the two in conjunction. Wouldn't really have thought of that.
This really depends upon the type of knife you have. Holding it in an ice pick, reverse, grip. A belief that I can punch with the hand and then open the knife so I can catch with a knife blade to cut on the way out. The problem with this is that it also gives your opponent a way to grab your knife. If you are fighting with a shorter knife, fixed bladed, modern knife, folding knife, or even a world war II style knife, this grip is more dangerous than helpful. In fact, in world war II. The SAS was taught by fairburn that the inverse grip was too dangerous to use because it would get your arm broken. With the medieval fighting knife, the blade is as long or a little bit longer than your forearm. You can fight with this in an ice pick grip without the same risk to a broken arm.
@@swordfightingschool I assume broken by a blunt object, if that's what you are fighting against? I've never used anything fancy. I believe the two that I've used in life are hammer, and ice pick. Never used reverse of either. I get your meaning. In most street fights, hammer, or reversed hammer is probably what you see the most. In my experience anyways. Never really thought about it, but if I've had a shorter blade I always fought hammer, longer blade in ice pick. This was decades ago, and I was an idiot anyways back then.
yes, we will start filming again soon. We just moved into a new building in December and haven't been able to start filming again. I'd be happy to do some more hawk and knife, I really enjoy that style
Seems this would be more effective with just an 18" rather than 12" knife in the offhand. But I suppose as frontiersman you would use what you have on hand.
I have a feeling this is only applicable when done slow step by step. When done in reality it would just be like two cats in a sack. Just flailing madly, there wouldn't be time to think or plan. At least that's my experience with actual fist fights. I've never fought anyone with anything edged though.
Once you have spent times with weapons in both hands you learn to step into attacks and use the angle to make your counters stronger. I've fought with tomahawk and knife (training versions of course) and there is a lot of things that you can do with the actions that are planned. Think of it more like chess. You recognize a position that the opponent is in and then you know what they can and cannot easily do from there. It takes training, but you can read what is coming your way.
Usually they were smaller utility knives, but sometimes the tomahawk would be paired with a Bowie knife. In more modern context, it is often paired with a bayonet or other Friday knife like a k bar
This video is not about whether or not that would be lethal, but whether or not they would be able to do something back to you right away or if they would just drop dead. Movies make it look like you can hit somebody and they just drop. While that is possible, it is not something you can count on. Not when it's a fight for your life.
Integrated with unarmed martial arts training one could become a very dangerous individual. Have a 9mm on the hip and one would be well prepared for just about any close range encounter. Hypothetically, of course.
I would say most of the period examples that we have seen fall around 14 to 16 inch length handles which I think is what the majority of the reproductions that are sold these days have as well.
I'm sure some were historically as well. But when you have a working tool that you are cutting wood, with starting fires with, and using every day you probably won't have that kind of edge on it. You'll have a good edge, but not razor edge. Again, that's not to say that there weren't some that had that kind of edge.
How about a real life problem solution? Central and South America, all my encounters in the bush everyone carries a machete! But i conceal a tomahawk. My concern is tomahawk vs machete! Tomahawk is a great weapon for sleeping safety. But how to fight against a machete on the trail!? Please alert me to any combative formats for such encounters. Too many times i have encountered people trying to come right in on me in the bush machete in hand! Not knowing their intent, causes me to go into cover or conceal mode. Put distance between until im sure they are not a threat. It's getting real for me.
@@swordfightingschool right on brother. Being trapped in a foreign country is tuff enough far from my cold blue steel and my familiarities. And have had several encounters with some not so friendlies. Trying to not have to teach them how to swim face down . But , it is definitely coming to that
Truth... A full penetrating chop through the carotid damn sure can be incapacitating, and fatal. There is a difference between a warrior fighting with a hatchet, and video makers dancing with a hatchet.
There are accounts of duels where men would be stabbed in important organs or major arteries and live just long enough to defeat their opponent. If you have fatally injured someone, they aren't going to just die, they will want to take you with them.
Most likely not, but if for any reason you missed that stab under the arm, you want to be in a position to continue the fight. Who knows, you might have hit a rib and slipped off. Or just missed him entirely
that is why your footwork si so important. You are correct that if you stand there you will get hit by the falling weapon. You will notice that there is always footwork involved with every action.
A strike to the neck from a tomahawk will sever the jugular and carotid artery you will bleed to death in a matter of minutes so a strike to the neck from a tomahawk will absolutely kill you
Yes a tomahawk to the neck might sever the carotid artery. But then again it might not. It never hurts to make sure. Rogers rangers outside of Detroit did an execution by tomahawk on native American Chiefs that required multiple tomahawk strikes to the neck.
@@swordfightingschool I'm sure of it, I was trained as an immediate responder by the Virginia State Police which included first first aid training by combat medic and I also had first-aid training in the Air Force and I was taught about the human cardiovascular system by my mother which was a nurse and a paramedic
@@swordfightingschool In 2018; I took out a 297 pound man with two tomahawk blows to the skull, feel free to call the police department in Thomasville North Carolina and Inquire about my experience with a tomahawk , with the increase of adrenaline it causes your heart to beat faster and blood will spurt twelve feet from your carotid artery
Finally someone showing usefull way for tomahawk and knife fighting, and not "cinematographic" way to do that
Just throw it and hope it lands hack first 😂
Its always good to know what your enemy does. This is not combat, this is pure warefare magic.
thanks, It is amazing when you can read them. Then you get to where you put them where you want them and they just walk into your weapons.
@@swordfightingschool 1" in the armpit is fatal.....McDojo
first block is fine, good luck under pressure with the rest...
Flow drills. Gotta love 'em.
Not gonna lie, it looks like he lost fingers whenever he blocks with the dagger.
Looks very good when nice and slow. Let’s see it when there’s actual intent and speed from the attacker.
I had a tomahawk and knife (training versions of course) fight at a hotel in San Francisco at a HEMA event several years ago. We were going hard and really trying to hit each other. It works as long as you know how to use angles and movement to your advantage.
Have just bought myself a training tomahawk and knife, really looking forward to testing these techniques
Reply back here and let me know how it goes. Remember, always move offline. But not very far.
Me too
*Jabs knife through armpit* "Now that didn't kill him so now we do this..." Say what! you pierced a major artery, pierced his lungs, depending on the angle maybe even his heart, not to mention cutting through the pectoral major when you knock him off..... he has about 30 seconds of life left and i promise he isn't fighting anymore lol
and on the knee slash why aim that low, you could aim like half a foot higher and sever the femoral artery.
Dying is a long ways from dead. If I stab him in the armpit and he moves I may not get a good strike into his chest cavity. I'm a glance off his ribs. I might miss him entirely. I always train to follow up so I never go for one shot, and one shot only.
Even if I do sever his artery and he is bleeding to death that's 15 to 25 seconds where he is going to be doing everything he possibly can to take me with him. I want to make sure that I caused so much structural damage, pain, and trauma that he is not thinking of me as I move on.
If you read police and corner reports, you will see that there are many instances of what we would expect to be 'mortal wounds' that the person just kept fighting through.
@@temperedfangs1486 go for the knee to break their structure. We could go for the artery, but what if they're wearing deer hide pants, or heavy cotton or wool trousers? I may not be able to cut through that. Or if I do cut through that, it may not go deep enough into the flesh to hit the artery.
By going for the knee I break them structurally. Then they cease to be a threat to me. If they can't stand or move they are much easier to either finish or move away from. Not everything is going to be a death stroke. Nor do I need everything to be a killing stroke. I need to take them out of the fight.
@@swordfightingschool Wow! thank you truly for debating with me most creators would ignore my comment, you debating me shows that you are very confident in your work and i respect that. However, i still somewhat disagree. if (hypothetically of course) the opponent is wearing trousers think enough to stop me from cutting the artery, in turn it would be enough to stop you from injuring the tendons in the knee with that same strike. and with a short weapon like a hatchet and knife to strike below the waist, you would either have to give up your stance or defense. you couldn't keep both. i feel that jamming the knife into a large target such as the liver would benefit you more. you make a vary good point about the under arm stab though. if you missed that stab though then your opponent gets a direct repost with their knife while both your hands are occupied. i do love hoe you teach students to get out of the way of the vertical swing however very good advice. would it not be more advantageous and significantly easier to do a simple block and counter with a direct thrust to the mid section instead of trying to preform a lock. in all my HEMA experience the chance of succeeding on a weapon imposed joint lock is slim to none. Once again thank you for the banter and i say everything with much respect to you and your institution. i look forward to hearing your thoughts,
@@temperedfangs1486 When we are going to attack the knee it is not to cut the tendons or anything like that. Instead what we are doing is braking their structure so that they lose the ability to move with speed or balance. If we break the side of the knee (it really doesn't take much pressure to break the knee on the side or tear the ACL or MCL) they will be much slower.
Thank you for sharing this
The probability of your opponent reacting in certain ways and where your attention and entire body is to "retaliate" appropriately is in you to be taped
question sir, how does doing the knife block at this 3:27? From my own knowledge blocking with a weapon that has more mass and power tends to break through the defense of the weapon that has less reach or mass (mainly knife or daggers). Also are there any books or writings that explain the use of Tomahawk or Tomahawk and knife?
Hello, sir -
You are correct. You cannot stop a heavier weapon with a lighter weapon. If you watch the video I'm not talking about stopping the attack. I cut into the handle of the hatchet in the direction it was already moving. I want to guide the attack past me, not trying to stop the energy of the attack.
good video!!! I really like tomahawk!! but there is little video in internet to teach us how to fight with it.
I'm glad you liked it. Please share it with anybody you think would enjoy it. We will be doing more videos with the tomahawk as well.
That's the secret, at 3.:36 "Nice and Slow" I'm not sure real life combat / life threatening situations are nice and slow, but pretty cool moves, bowie and tomahawk are the coolest combination
We practice slowly so that when we need the technique it 'just happens'. Practice slow, learn fast. We did another tomahawk video where the attack was done as a surprise attack at a dead run. The actions still worked.
And I agree with you. Hawk and knife are a cool combination!
I wonder where you can get the training knife and tomahawk?
The ones I am using in this video are Cold Steel trainers that I got from Amazon
I was always taught to fight with the knife down the wrist to protect the tendons on the inside of the wrist. It allows you to use your fist, bolstered by the hilt, to slice, and on draw back to penetrate. Not sure that that has any use in this type of fighting. I have a number of knives, and experience with them. I have a couple tomahawks, but zero experience. I grasp the basic concepts, but this is interesting using the two in conjunction. Wouldn't really have thought of that.
This really depends upon the type of knife you have. Holding it in an ice pick, reverse, grip. A belief that I can punch with the hand and then open the knife so I can catch with a knife blade to cut on the way out.
The problem with this is that it also gives your opponent a way to grab your knife. If you are fighting with a shorter knife, fixed bladed, modern knife, folding knife, or even a world war II style knife, this grip is more dangerous than helpful. In fact, in world war II. The SAS was taught by fairburn that the inverse grip was too dangerous to use because it would get your arm broken.
With the medieval fighting knife, the blade is as long or a little bit longer than your forearm. You can fight with this in an ice pick grip without the same risk to a broken arm.
@@swordfightingschool I assume broken by a blunt object, if that's what you are fighting against? I've never used anything fancy. I believe the two that I've used in life are hammer, and ice pick. Never used reverse of either. I get your meaning. In most street fights, hammer, or reversed hammer is probably what you see the most. In my experience anyways. Never really thought about it, but if I've had a shorter blade I always fought hammer, longer blade in ice pick. This was decades ago, and I was an idiot anyways back then.
Hi any more trainings with tomahawk brilliant uk Shane 😅
yes, we will start filming again soon. We just moved into a new building in December and haven't been able to start filming again.
I'd be happy to do some more hawk and knife, I really enjoy that style
Seems this would be more effective with just an 18" rather than 12" knife in the offhand. But I suppose as frontiersman you would use what you have on hand.
And this is the size of practice knives we had on hand as well. Like you said, use what you've got.
I have a feeling this is only applicable when done slow step by step. When done in reality it would just be like two cats in a sack. Just flailing madly, there wouldn't be time to think or plan. At least that's my experience with actual fist fights. I've never fought anyone with anything edged though.
Once you have spent times with weapons in both hands you learn to step into attacks and use the angle to make your counters stronger. I've fought with tomahawk and knife (training versions of course) and there is a lot of things that you can do with the actions that are planned. Think of it more like chess. You recognize a position that the opponent is in and then you know what they can and cannot easily do from there. It takes training, but you can read what is coming your way.
When you train for it, it becomes reflex. You don’t need to consciously remember it, because your body already knows it. It becomes second nature
Magua brought me here
Which knife blade would you suggestion to use in combination the Tomahawk.
Usually they were smaller utility knives, but sometimes the tomahawk would be paired with a Bowie knife.
In more modern context, it is often paired with a bayonet or other Friday knife like a k bar
@@swordfightingschool thanks. Do you a tanto blade would be good as well
Cold Steel Trailmaster
Bowie.
Even if you had you subclavian severed, it wouldn't be lethal?
...what?
This video is not about whether or not that would be lethal, but whether or not they would be able to do something back to you right away or if they would just drop dead.
Movies make it look like you can hit somebody and they just drop. While that is possible, it is not something you can count on. Not when it's a fight for your life.
Integrated with unarmed martial arts training one could become a very dangerous individual. Have a 9mm on the hip and one would be well prepared for just about any close range encounter.
Hypothetically, of course.
How long is a stick of tomahawk? Or how long should it be?
I would say most of the period examples that we have seen fall around 14 to 16 inch length handles which I think is what the majority of the reproductions that are sold these days have as well.
Fantastic techniques here!
Thank you! We really enjoy doing these
Hello is that a coldsteel training Tomahawk?
Yes it is. We use that but will be getting some leather training hawks.
3:45 sorry bud but i think that last cover aint gonna do shit
Whoops! Hold on attacker reset so i can block you
I grapil with the tomahawk😊
I beg to differ. My tomahawk is shaving sharp so a strike to the neck will nearly take a head off.
I'm sure some were historically as well. But when you have a working tool that you are cutting wood, with starting fires with, and using every day you probably won't have that kind of edge on it. You'll have a good edge, but not razor edge.
Again, that's not to say that there weren't some that had that kind of edge.
This is all cool, untill it doesn't happen like you want it to 😂🤣
Great information, but you don’t have to kill to disable, if they lay down you can move on
How about a real life problem solution? Central and South America, all my encounters in the bush everyone carries a machete! But i conceal a tomahawk. My concern is tomahawk vs machete! Tomahawk is a great weapon for sleeping safety. But how to fight against a machete on the trail!? Please alert me to any combative formats for such encounters. Too many times i have encountered people trying to come right in on me in the bush machete in hand! Not knowing their intent, causes me to go into cover or conceal mode. Put distance between until im sure they are not a threat. It's getting real for me.
I just did a video with John answering your question. It will be coming out soon.
@@swordfightingschool right on brother. Being trapped in a foreign country is tuff enough far from my cold blue steel and my familiarities. And have had several encounters with some not so friendlies. Trying to not have to teach them how to swim face down . But , it is definitely coming to that
@@mgwgeneral6467 You stay safe there. The video is being edited and should be out nest week or the following week.
Iiiiii don't know about that....if it gets your carotid or jugular you probably aint gonna make it.
Truth... A full penetrating chop through the carotid damn sure can be incapacitating, and fatal. There is a difference between a warrior fighting with a hatchet, and video makers dancing with a hatchet.
We always take into account that dying is a long ways from dead. I want to make sure that he's not going to be able to take me with him.
There are accounts of duels where men would be stabbed in important organs or major arteries and live just long enough to defeat their opponent. If you have fatally injured someone, they aren't going to just die, they will want to take you with them.
A wound to various blood vessels may prove fatal, but men can keep fighting before succumbing to such injuries.
Pretty sure that arms not swinging an axe after taking a buck knife throu the underarm.
Most likely not, but if for any reason you missed that stab under the arm, you want to be in a position to continue the fight. Who knows, you might have hit a rib and slipped off. Or just missed him entirely
so you stop the hand but the handle and the axe head can still arc over and wop you a good one... ok
that is why your footwork si so important. You are correct that if you stand there you will get hit by the falling weapon. You will notice that there is always footwork involved with every action.
A strike to the neck from a tomahawk will sever the jugular and carotid artery you will bleed to death in a matter of minutes so a strike to the neck from a tomahawk will absolutely kill you
Yes a tomahawk to the neck might sever the carotid artery. But then again it might not. It never hurts to make sure.
Rogers rangers outside of Detroit did an execution by tomahawk on native American Chiefs that required multiple tomahawk strikes to the neck.
@@swordfightingschool I'm sure of it, I was trained as an immediate responder by the Virginia State Police which included first first aid training by combat medic and I also had first-aid training in the Air Force and I was taught about the human cardiovascular system by my mother which was a nurse and a paramedic
@@kevinwiley1085 only if it hits the carotid artery. The other guy is going to me moving, turning and twisting. As well as hyped up on
Adrenaline
@@swordfightingschool In 2018; I took out a 297 pound man with two tomahawk blows to the skull, feel free to call the police department in Thomasville North Carolina and Inquire about my experience with a tomahawk , with the increase of adrenaline it causes your heart to beat faster and blood will spurt twelve feet from your carotid artery
Real life scene it wont work
😂😂😂
Play acting.