Making a 60V 300Amps Capable Battery - 16s10p Sony VTC6 18650 cells
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2020
- This beauty is going to POWEEEEERR a super lightweight LMX161 electric motorcycle. This green brick is capable of 300Amps, I think it’s plenty of power for a sub 45kg dirtbike ohhhh yeeaahh
It’s very important to have a proper bus bar, especially on very wide packs like this one 180mm or 7” wide bus bar connection, making sure you spread the load between all cells in parallel. Cut and folded copper, tinned with solder inside (an easy job for the JBC soldering iron, a maybe impossible mission for most soldering irons), added nickel inside and sandwiched together!! Yummy!!
You see 4 blue wires soldered to the negative bus bar and 4 red wires soldered to the positive bus bar. Conveniently this BMS comes with 4 wires which is very nice and makes life much easier to spread along with the pack.
Note you MUST keep the 4 wires the same length otherwise it will cause a load imbalance as the current tendency is to run to the shortest path.
This is not a theoretical thing, this actually happens, it’s a real thing. I’ve conducted lots of controlled tests for companies when consulting battery design and demonstrated this happening with proper monitoring equipment.
If not considering this when making big (even small) battery packs you may be overloading some cells more than others causing an uneven wear/ageing some cells more than others which could lead to premature failures and warranty claims.
Ohhh yeaahhh more copper... more POWEEEEEERRR
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So much POWEEEEEEEEERRRR ohhh yeeeaaahhh!!!! - Наука та технологія
This build is so clean. And that spotwelder is impressive too! overcompensating? NO just MORE POWER! :D
Wow man that's some awesome skill level for battery building nice job. That BMS looks great and it can handle 300A??? It looks so small.. 😯😯
"Note you MUST keep the 4 wires the same length otherwise it will cause a load imbalance as the current tendency is to run to the shortest path." -- Just so you know Bruno, 4x AWG8 wires 6" long in parallel will only have 0.0775mΩ Resistance [AWG8 is 0.62mΩ/ft and resistance in parallel is R=1/(1/R1+1/R2+1/R3+1/R4)] so if one of those 4 - 6" wires was 12" long the added resistance would be 0.0775mΩ - 0.0885mΩ or 0.011mΩ. Cell to cell resistance differences can easily be 1mΩ to 2mΩ so 0.011mΩ is nothing and will make no significant different at all even at a current of 250A. I when over this with an electronic engineer quite a white ago concerning a FB post I did on balancing POS and NEG exit wires. Beautiful battery by the way.
Yeaahhh love these comments haha... let’s chat... this 10p wide pack may not be super wide but when having 14p wide or longer like 20p these things actually make difference in real world. I spent 3 years designing and testing a wide high power pack for a multinational company and we could clearly notice difference if the load isn’t perfectly evenly distributed across the parallels. You could even touch and feel the difference by hand, very obvious. People didn’t believe and I had to actually bring the guy there in front of the battery and demonstrate. I also measured voltages on the pack that wasn’t perfectly distributed and what I saw in the same parallel was some cells getting pushed much harder than others and getting hotter with lower voltage and others from the same parallel running cooler and actually sending energy across the bus bar charging the lower cells. No many people get to see, measure and understand what’s going on. I love the mathematics and formulas but I also love experiments and tests. I’m glad you took time writing all these numbers so I can copy that info hahaha. I can tell that you’re into that battery stuff too, please set up a long parallel string and do some experiments like I mentioned, it’s actually kinda cool to see how weird things behave =]
@@BrunoPOWEEER thanks for your response, I'll try to respond later this evening. I am in GMT-4 in Canada what zone and country you in?
On the other side of the planet... in Australia with the Kangaroos...+10 GMT so far ahead in time that I actually feel like I am in the future... hahahaha
That is one hell of a beautiful battery bruno!
You wild Bru ... Gotta love the ENERGY
You rock man , I've been watching your Chanel for years from London uk
This lmx 161 is going to be brilliant great battery and upgraded controller 👌
Hahaaa imagine 40kg bike with sooooo much POWEEEEEEEERRR... that thing will be a weapon hahahaa
More power to you man.
Good video, i like it!
So satisfying to watch
yay a new video. ive been working on a elctric mazda rx8. 88s25p 176ah 340 volts.
Every time I see you on this video on the end I can hold my self from lafin hard good work and more powwwer make new videos.
Green one's always makes me fascinating 😂
Hi mate love ya work this is my battery now and I couldn’t be happier I bought the LMX of Adam and I’m so happy we have just put a nuclur controller on it and it has turned it into a absolute monster we should do a new video it’s unbelievably fast now thanks mate
Heeeeeeeey mate… hahaaaaa yeaaaahh here we go… this was the ultimate plan from day 1 to get that LXM first running with the recommended Kelly then replace with an insane controller.
I’m in Newcastle area now… are u in Sydney? Sometimes (not very often) I drive down there and depending where you are we could make a video =]
@@BrunoPOWEEER yeah that’s it I’m so lucky how it worked and and couldn’t be happier yeah bro it’s so fast like almost unrideable running 13800w and the battery loves it yeah no dramas I’m in western Sydney so we need to hook up next time you down more poweeer video on the way lol
Hi mate bad news the battery fucked up need it fixed could you please sort it out for me please bro don’t want to take it anywhere else let me know what I have to do and we sort it
Do you have a video review of the spot welder you are using in this video? it defiantly looks awesome and not the every day use one. Thanks :)
God tier level achieved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That looks incredible!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍😎 That electric muscle twitcher can tear your stomach muscles. Great battery video.
This one here? ua-cam.com/video/n7CLoQQiGy4/v-deo.html this is for pregnancy pain relief, much greater voltage 180v goes way deeper into the nerve to trick the pain messages... I tried to use as a muscle thing and it was twitching my balls, legs and my chest from my abs... never again hahahaa
BrunoPOWEEER Yeah, those things can be dangerous if you use too high a voltage your muscles contract to the point they tear themselves apart.
@BrunoPOWEEER Wow Bruno, your batteries look so neat! I build battery packs as well and my Kweld starts to be not enough... What welder do you use?
Bruno what’s up m8. What kind of tape did you use to route the bms leads at 2:19? Cheers
You Freaking Rock Buddy!!!
Bruno can you tell me from where you buy this BMS? Also can you change the balance voltage to be 4.15V if you want?
All values are programmable, look up AntBMS, connects via Bluetooth to your smartphone and app you can change to different battery chemistry too, increase or decrease voltage, current, even the resistance between series can compensate via software, pretty advanced stuff
@@BrunoPOWEEER possible u can do a video on how to do balancing using this ant bms? It will be greatly appreciated!
That’s a badass battery, powerrrrr like clarksson or yourself would’ve said! You probably have answered this a hundred times but where did you get those holders? And what width/thickness is that nickel strip? Thanks
Great vid and build what size nickel did u use for high current pls and for bms first u have to the battry negative then ballance cells?
Above how many watts is dangerous for DIY/hobby projects? Can you safety touch 60V DC?
Love it....
Hahaaaaa thaaaaaaaaaanks mate, soooo much POWEEEEEEEERRR ohhh yeaahh
longer video please 👍
Ohhh yeaahhh coming but needs hours of editing =]
@@BrunoPOWEEER hire someone 🙃
What spot welder, nickel and other components do you use?
hello, how thick is your copper sheet?
Is it okay if I go 17s at 62.9v? I'll be using 26650 batteries, and the BMS says I could downgrade to 16s as well. Can I also limit the output voltage at the BMS to 60v? I'm a total newbie here building a DIY battery pack.
Bruno POWWWERRRR!!! Thanks for the videos man. I love your channel. I have one question - it seems your pack does not have adequate nickel to support 300A for the series connections. I did some research and found that you need at least 0.15mm^2 nickel per 1 Amp. I’m assuming you have one layer of 0.3mm x 8mm nickel strip (2.4mm^2) and 10 connections for each series groups. So total you have 2.4mm^2 * 10 = 24mm^2 nickel. For 300A you need 0.15mm^2 * 300 = 45mm^2 total nickel. You have almost half this amount. Can you please tell me if my calculations are wrong or whether I am missing something?
Correct. He needs to at least double or triple the amount of nickel on this pack or expect to see some nice fireworks
Salut. Il pot folosi la scuter electric? Eu am un acumulator 60V 20ah. Ce pret? Sunt interesat! Multumesc
Hey Bruno, if I want to use a battery like this with an electro bike what else would I need to change?
BTW I like how simple you make it look when you're doing these battery packs 👌
Where you from I can make for your electro bike
How many hours will you get out of this battery?
So much good knowledge here. I learnt a lot in such a short amount of time. So much powerrrrr man yeah.
Hahahahaa this is why I love making videos, I have so much fun making these and I get to show some of my real world battery build “technique” with some Rock’n Roll hahaha sooo much POWEEEEEEEERRR ohhh yeaahh
@@BrunoPOWEEER idiot!!
Please share where you buy those cell holders
How do you like 300 am? batteries how many mah?
I will be building a 16S30P soon for my 80kg "scooter" :D
A video about connectors would be AWESOME :]
The anderson plugs are okay but not the best for a removable battery pack I believe...
Christian wagner i use xt90 connectors on my new battery 72v 29ah I use high amps with my build the xt90s are good so are ec5 connectors
I don't think xt90 will be enough for this guys build.
@@chrisrathjan1501 Could double them up or use XT150 connectors.
I've seen XT60s with pins wired in parallel so they behave like a double bullet connector to double the current - Should add a label to them so nobody accidentally connects one to a regular connector!
Hi Bruno!
Old subject already, but I'd like your opinion...
On big packs like this one, is there still an interest into building it BMS-free and charge balancing with a Imax B6 or such?
Are Ant or JBD BMSes really reliable enough as for balancing?
Keep up the good work! And many thanks for your videos!
I am not bruno but use BMS please
can you make me a wiring diagram for a 16sp4 60v please?
Those sony cells look good I I think those should be able to handle 1c recharge
Yeaahh most high power cells can handle 1C charge, LG HG2 can handle as well... very handy if need fast charging but ideally keep at 0.5C and the cell will last way longer =]
Thanks for bringing your POWEEEEEEEERRRR to Newy mate. Where can us Newy dudes check out your stuff? I have Jon Egg's electric VF 1000 conversion here in Charlestown if you ever want to have a look and a ride. Have you checked out Toby's 50kW flat track bike in Valentine?
Yeeeeeeeaahhh mate, I chat with Toby nearly every day, constantly going over there or he comes over to my workshop or my work at ELMOFO to get parts, contactors etc... Yeah we should make a video showing the VF 1000 is that the red one?? Add me on Facebook and drop me your phone number here or FB. There’s also a young buy who is making a GIANT drone the size of a car maybe 20km from Newy
@@BrunoPOWEEER It is mostly white. The red bike he built has a hub motor. Mine has an older brushed DC motor, but goes pretty hard. I think it was built by Jon around 2009 ish. I am trying to work out what colour to get it sprayed, but I don't have the money to get it done because I have just bought a EM Trials bike and a FUTR Alpha frame. Too much electric addiction. Better than my old WR450F ICE habit though!
Wooooowww old school DC motor like his land speed bike that he rewound the 48v motor to 24v and pumped 120v to get crazy RPM? Hahahaa he wants to sell that bike I think the yellow one on display... yeah electric is better than petrol addiction that’s for sure hahaha
Hi Bruno, whatever happened to that crazy 191km ebike? was really looking forward to see it in action...
Ohhh man... biggest drama... we uploaded that video without showing any rides because James didn’t want to get in trouble with the cops as he rides it everyday and EVERYWHERE, I was like “nah, don’t worry, cops will never watch my videos” I uploaded and I’m 3 days it had like 65k views and 2 cops came to talk to James like “hummm I saw this bike on UA-cam, 191kmh, where have h been testing this bike?” Then he freaked out and asked me to delete the video from UA-cam and at this stage I had nearly 80k views and was like “WTF people love that video not deleting, let’s keep it!” Then yeah lots of dislikes too because we didn’t show any action. We looked for private roads or racetrack to do some high speed runs and here in Australia you cannot do any tests without a proper insurance. Then we were like “okay, let’s get this freaking insurance” they won’t accept bicycles or anything that’s not road legal” so basically it’s nearly impossible that we will ever get any footage like that... I also have the same drama with my 42kW trike, lots of friends have the same problem... it’s very very frustrating... =/ One of my mates is calling a place on Monday so fingers crossed we just found the perfect place =]
@@BrunoPOWEEER Good luck! Your detailed reply is much appreciated. I'm hoping we'll get to see what it can do... legally ofcourse.
pretty impressive work bro ; really nice.
do you make custom batteries and sell? i am building a stealth bomber style e-bike and need a nice for it. please let me kow
YEAAAAA MORE ZAP ZAPS!!!!
Hey Bruno do some videos about affordable Ebikes.
Avendo un po di batterie 18650 da 3.7v
E volendo costruire un pacco batteria per un scooter elettrico
La batteria che monta lo scooter
E di 60v 20ah
Come li devo montare.....
Quanto batterie mi servono e con quale schema montarle
E poi o trovato un controllerxhe protegge 60v e 35ah i rete
Va bene
Grazie dell'aiuto.
Which BMS is it? Looks POWERFUL!!!
This is the AntBMS 300A BMS can get in 16s or 20s. The 20s can get in 400A (160A cont)
Helo i nead help...
I nead power suply cc cv tu charge batey 25A 42V .You know about something ?
I wana grow up to be like Bruno.
I would love to change the BMS out on my surron or at least modify it to allow for a slightly higher output. I got one of the R controllers but i can use it to its full potential because the stock BMS says " AHHHHH TOO MUCH POWWWEEEEERRR!" and shuts down. Please HAAAAALP. Im an electrician but im not terribly experienced with electronics or electrical engineering but im good to read a schematic so if you or anyone else can point me in to right direction... that'd be super. Mkay great theeanks.
Where do you get a bms for a battery that carries such a load?
Look for ANT bms. 300A is just peak current for a few seconds. Continous is about 150A
where you get the copper strips. you can pass link thanks. teacher yeahhh
A dream bike....so much litium
Hahaaaaaa this is going on a 40kg LMX.... imagine how craaaaazy this bike will be, such a weapon hahahaaa
20kw peak lmx ?
Yes. Akd.
how can you send to buy a battery with you
Hi, my name is Chris, I’m from France. I have a project, build my self a Ebike with a Enduro frame (like the one you saw at EM3eV office !) and I’m learning how to build a battery for it. I want it safe and reliable. I found on a website a hard case that I can put in the frame it self and it can contain 420 cells and a BMS (20s21p!!!). Can we exchange on the matter ? In order to have guidance on the parts and the build process ?
I looking for max capacity (I will use this bike to go to work every days : 100 km round trip).
Lite more about the parts I plane to use on the bike : QS 205 V3 T5 5000W on 19” wheels (front and back), Sabvoton 72150, dual front hydraulic brake 203 mm, rear hydraulic break 203 mm.
Thank you for your answer.
Hey mate big fan of the Channel just wondering if you can make me a ebike battery I’ll pay 😊
Heeeey mate, where are u located? If you’re in Australia we can consider some options but overseas things become a lot more difficult to ship a DIY battery
Do you sell battery packs ?? ,I need one with murata vtc6 3000 mAh 20 A ,240 pieces for this battery for my E-bike .maybe you can sell this battery's i don't know .
Hi I'm Italian my name is Denis, where can I buy 18650 batteries like yours? thank you
Heeeey Italian Denis!!! BrunoPOWEEER is Italian/Brazilian family from Udine but I can’t really speak Italian =/ Best place to buy cells in Europe is from ru.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/18650-size/sony-us18650-vtc6.html
@@BrunoPOWEEER thank you very much!!
BIIIIIG STACK!!!
Hey Bruno, where can I buy one of your batteries? I’ve been trying to get a contact for you for a minute.
Heeeey mate, are u in Australia? If you’re overseas it’s pretty impossible to send lithium battery packs without certifications and endless paper work, insurances blablabla... drop me an email on brunopoweeer@gmail.com
I can't believe you are not reinforcing your connections with copper, you can solder it on top of the nickel, between the cells, also I use self healing PTC fuses on the balancing wires, and I also cover the entire sides of the batteries wit transparent neutral silicon, to reduce the chance of accidental shorts or humidity related discharging!
Bruno Bruno Bruno you really have the toy that get a man wet.
Hahahahahahahahaa this message made me laugh soooo much mate hahahahahahaa
OH YEAAAAH POOWWWEEEER
Hahahaaaaaa yeeeaahhh sooooo much POWEEEEEEEERRR ohhh yeaahh =]
Why cant you use copper on the whole battery wounldnt it make it more efficient?
Can’t spot weld copper to the cells, it won’t stick spot welding from one side like the battery spot welders, to weld copper to steel nickel plated it would require flow the welding current from inside the cell to the tab or the other way around. I managed to weld some copper from outside but the welder are so fragile due to copper being such soft metal and breaks off with any mechanical movement or vibration. If you increase the copper thickness it won’t weld OR whenever you add more power to the welder it just blows a hole through he copper and the cell damaging the whole thing. Complicated stuff...
@@BrunoPOWEEER have you tried aluminum and i am wanting to make a solderless cell holder and use aluminum sheet and press nipples to contact the cell and clamp it together so it wont go anywhere but if there was a solution to use copper instead of nickel what are the advantages and disadvantages someone told me nickel doesnt oxide but copper does but copper is super conductive and will shed heat quicker is that correct thank you bruno keep up the amazing content pooowwwwweeeeeeeeerrrr yeeeaaaah
danlimblog.blogspot.com/2018/11/p3-416-ofppk-features-and-installation.html?m=1 something like this would be cool easily change batteries as tech gets improved but youll need a custom frame for one of these so im trying to design small packs for ebikes
BrunoPOWEEER!!! Yeeeeaaaa!!!
Sooooooo much POWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR ohhh yeaahh hahaha
Nice. How many kidneys do I need to sell to buy one?
Where I can buy this battery pack?
Ohhhh this is a custom pack I made for my friend... I don’t have a shop or anything...
Dear bruno , how can you put 300amp , when that motor can take on only 60 amps constant ,according to lmx Factory, i ask because i have the same motor ,and it looks like you're going to fry it......
It can handle much more in peak. I use mine on 150a
0:00 BRUNOOOO POWEEEEER!
1:39 man I wish I could work in your space for just a week 😂👌 you have some beautiful hardware and tools man!
BrunoPOWEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRR hahahahaaaa thaaaaanks mate... yeah this is a result of years investing little money here and there in tolls and toys... I don’t even earn or spend that much money but after so many years I look at all that stuff like WOOOOOOWW... how did I buy all that??!!??!!?? Hahahaha I wish I had a helper here to finish all the endless halfway projects and chat about tech stuff all day long hahaaaa
BrunoPOWEEER you and I are in the same boat my friend, I’m pretty much the only one here In my city that knows much about these things (I ride all types of PEV’s I can get my hands on)
I’ve recently had to clean out over $3000 in batteries because they were getting too old for my power units.
I’d always be happy to help vie email or reddit if you want in the future! :D
I’m just starting to get to making videos now finally, I’ll be able to start uploading within the next month or so with some decent content 😂
I hate spending money, I never have a lot of it to start with either 😂 I think most of us that like to push real power are too broke to actually follow our dreams.
Can’t wait to see what you have coming for your personal stuff now that there are so many new developments in the industries :)
I’ve always loved following you on your journeys man! You bring a breath of fresh air with you every time!
How about to show us this battery holding 300a for 2 minuts? :)
How about putting a spanner across the terminals, measure the maximum current with the clamp meter and see how long it will last? I bet will be waaaayy more than 300A hahahahahahahaa VectorPOWEEEEEERRRRR
BrunoPOWEEER hello bruno, how thick is that nickel? I guess it’s 300 peak? And also couldn’t you just solder the discharge to the nickel, feels like the copper won’t do too much only on the last one? Like you would need on the others too, thanks
wait 3.421 X 16 = 54.75V. you mean it's a 54V battery? i mean, i don't s** about any of that so i'm prob wrong...
3.4/3.7 is nominal voltage. Fully charged battery is 67.2V
!
60v too low, should go at least 72v
Hahahahaa I said the same thing but the LMX is 40kg and we have field weakening so high voltage isn’t reeeeeeeally necessary nowadays with these modern controllers... I used to build 28s for people and now 20s tech can go faster just because of field weakening... crazy hey!
Why not 700v like my friend Voltron Motorcycle leaving 1000cc faaaaar behind... hahahaa too much POWEEEEEEEERRR
@@BrunoPOWEEER wont the torque suffer alot? Or is there still plenty..
Torque comes from current, it all depends how much phase current you inject into the motor, you could have a 48v or even 24v motor with more torque than a 72v but the lower the voltage and super high current the more heat losses you’ll have. In the end what really makes difference is the total wattage, combined current vs volts. I rode a 1974 24v DC motor ua-cam.com/video/GKARIQW4a1o/v-deo.html I was like “nah 24v is bs... I’ll connect a 36v battery and take for a ride” I couldn’t believe how crazy and brutal that 24v DC motor accelerated and yeah I did crash hahaa
Sub 45kg... 300 amps? _HELLO!_
The nickel strip will not hold 30 amps each...
drive.google.com/file/d/1iUtOT_mMqBFzL0RFqlvp5JsUhXaQd2xS/view?usp=drivesdk here is a 30A fuse next to the nickel tabs, I’m very positive sure it will handle 30A surges... we are not talking about 1 metre long, this is a very short run. PCB copper traces are thin like foil but VERY SHORT run, this is why they hold up higher currents than the recommended mm2 / AWG to handle that current. I’ve been building batteries as a job since 2014 and so far I’ve never seen any of my packs getting hotter than 60 degrees at proper continuous resistive load tests in the lab with no cooling. If one of the batteries I build catch on fire I’ll be making a video =]
@@BrunoPOWEEER that is your pack not mine,
But on my pack i will not trust 30 amps through 1 strip of nickel, even if was 0.3mm...
Would you trust Tesla running over 1000Amps over a 70mm2 cable? Ohms laws says NO but real world says YES. Also how does fuse wire handle so much power but a much much wider nickel tab wouldn’t? I’ve never seen anyone sending letters to Tesla saying that they should increase the thickness and or cell fuses blowing under load just like that...
@@BrunoPOWEEER What is your nickel stripe dimensions? use nickel sheets for high power next time :)
or you can add one more layer of stripes
Yeaaaahhhhhahahahhahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!
Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaahhh sooooo much POWEEEEEEEERRR ohhh yeaahh
it is a joke this is 30 amp batery
Give away paps 60v battery plss frome Philiphines