Where Are The Men In The Church?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- There Are Fewer Male Members Of The Church
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- What messaging are we giving men?
- Do we adequately portray a positive male experience in the Church?
- So many women's programs, so many single women in the pews
Teddy Bear Jesus Episode - • Teddy Bear Jesus and T...
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I’m a 24 year old male and there are times I feel suffocated by how much our institutions focus on and give value to women and women’s rights, needs, and opportunities. Many of these same institutions give little focus on men and men’s needs. When these institutions do mention men it is to shame and guilt men. I am grateful and nearly cry when my fiancé says, “I appreciate you working to provide for us as a family soon.” I feel more men need hear those words and feel those words through the actions of our institutions.
That's how women have felt for thousands of years , it's only in the last decade or so where they have any empowerment
We're the ones who allowed them this position of power to begin with. Men didn't want to take the responsibility of leadership and elevated women as their equals. Now we're all paying the price.
organized church is yesterday's news - I started a weekly Bible Study with my sons and they have added friends (25-35 years old). The dialogue is deeper, more Bible focused, and we don't preach a Dispensationalism view where the young men & the church becomes secondary with a primary focus of sending young men off to die in the Middle East. This sounds crazy, but for the last 125 years, the church was hijacked - please stay away from the pew and arrange your own Bible Study and prepare to go deeper than any church would go on Sunday morning.
I keep hearing women ask-where are all the (traditional) men?
Here's my questions
Where are all the traditional women?
What makes most women worth us "stepping up" as men? I always hear what I need to "bring to the party", but I never hear what women need to bring to the party.
Why should we as men sign a contract (marriage certificate) that is completely one-sided? The minute the wife gets bored she can leave you, take the kids, house and everything you have worked for your entire life.
I’d love to hear a pastor or leader for once address this issue.
Men are no longer the heads of their own households, divorce court judges and the state are.
Not to mention your FUTURE income.
No reply from the host (no surprise there)
@Alexander44665 these aren't Christian women then. A woman who follows christ does none of those and is traditional.
Sounds like you’ve been watching a lot of red pill content. Those creators are the same as feminists, demanding women act like men. We’re not the same, and to demand that is making us very unhappy. Let us be feminine. That doesn’t mean contributing nothing. It means we bring different things to the table than men do. We need your masculinity, but you also need our femininity. Protect us, and we will please you. Provide for us, and we will make your world beautiful. Preside over our family, and we will make sure the little details are taken care of to precision.
I'm a single woman in the church who has never been married. We need to stop judging/treating men like they're children. We all make mistakes and fall short. We need to build them up and not put them down.
And stop the stupid comments like "when are you getting married?" And people stating the guy left because "he must have had a weak testimony" or "somebody offended him" or "he just wanted to sin." Those are rarely the correct reasons. Heaven forbid the church would actually do a self-examination to see why men are going inactive.
@@praytherosaryforpeace1204 The to "Cs" are important: chastity and commitment. Women all over are telling me by age 30 it is difficult to meet someone normal to marry. Stick to your values and eventually you will meet the right man.
@@scottbrandon6244 What are some of the most common reasons that you feel they are going inactive?
I agree. However, men need to stop acting like children and wanting a women to mother them. Men have generally become lazy and pacified...almost effeminate.
@@scottbrandon6244 IN your opinion Why are men becoming less or inactive?
Telling men in church to take on more responsibility without giving men the proper tools such as authority to handle said responsibility…that sounds like slavery.
Men should first take on the responsibility, not wait to for it to be given. And why would you ever abdicate authority to the church. That is such a bizarre thought to me.
@@CwicShowslavery.
@@CwicShow The law will not allow it.
@@CwicShow what do I get out of it?
@@johnalba3427 Choice. If you think responsibility is slavery, you will never realize your potential as a man.
My father was a convert. He didn’t have much of a father figure growing up. He joined the military and after his service he became a police officer. He retired from the police force and worked for the fire department for 10 more years. He was very much an authority, masculine and powerful man. Gentle in his words but powerful in his example and principles. Alway a right and a wrong but, he was willing to learn or take back a action that he may have done wrong and correct it. He’s 81 and a dying breed I feel. I love hearing strong bold testimonies in church. If you hear it and it feels right it’s right. No wishy washy, soft, and hope I don’t offend anybody people. Like, This is the line and you walk it the best you can. The adversary is looking for weak to prey on. If we aren’t bold in our principles and lifestyle as fathers and men and women of the church, our youth, by our weak examples will be led to live a more worldly life.
Couldn't agree more Mike. We need to stop apologising for the truth. I can never figure out why the gap isn't getting wider rather then staying in a parallel descending line with the world.
Very well written! You put into few words what Greg said. My brother and I have made covenants with one another to the point that we will be like Lehi and Nephi (the missionaries), Mormon and Moroni, Alma and Amulek. When we see each other we check on one another, ask about one another’s marriage and children and bear testimony to one another etc... We have discovered, in our mid-50’s how much we love one another. We are not weak. We are sons of God. We reverently magnify our callings in our Melchizedek Priesthood. We speak lovingly about our wives. We share burdens regarding our children. We love The Lord. Thank you for sharing your very thoughtful words!
I've noticed that there is a significant reluctance to celebrate masculinity at church, almost as if to tip-toe around the issue to avoid confrontation with feminism.
This needs to change.
The issue is a lot of the priesthood leadership either aren’t masculine or their sons aren’t and they have to compensate for the insecurity that comes with.
@@fightingfortruth9806 God bless you for standing up for truth!
@@fightingfortruth9806 In our ward we have been counseled by our Stake Presidency not to discuss it. Why? Because we need to be kind.
@@fightingfortruth9806 what age group? Who would walk out on the gospel of Jesus Christ? This is a major problem with the church leadership right today, they don’t speak out against sin ( like they used to) they stay silent. This leads thousands to believe that homosexuality, Transgender, Abortion etc is acceptable. We need true bold leadership again
I was a recently divorced father. I started to go to the singles ward since I was 26 years old and wanted to meet singles as well (not a lot in family wards) I was kicked out of the ward since my daughter was 3 and they said I needed to go to a family ward. I was upset and felt rejected. Every ward I went to looking for a ward to go to, I was ignored.
That's got to change!
I'm sorry for your pain.
I think one the biggest issues is the "happy wife happy wife" lingo. A husband should be focused on making his wife happy, however the issue is that many women in the church don't reciprocate that mentality. Then I have a friend that was verbally and emotionally abused by his wife. When he tried to talk to his bishop about it he didn't believe it. Then when he had the courage to divorce her his bishop placed all the blame on him. I think one of the biggest issues is that many church leaders, especially general authorities, never have this kind of experience with their wives or mothers. They don't think a woman is capable of it. One of the problems with the messaging is that it's not balanced between men and women. At priesthood session we are often called to repentance. That's not a bad thing. Women at the woman's session never seemed to be called to repentance. They as prone to commit grevious sin as men are.
Michael. I'm the guy you're describing as your friend. Same thing recently happened to me when I tried to talk with my Bishop except you can add physical abuse. Either he didn't want to get involved or he just didn't believe me. So I told him the next time she starts punching me I'm going to call the police. He didn't respond.
@@ranjanty sorry to hear. I'm glad you were able to get out. I think one cause might be that priesthood leaders in general have angelic wives so they can't percieve that women can be just a bad as men.
Right? You always see men get up and talk about their “better half“. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a woman say that. I often hear them talk about men as their other child or joke around about their incompetence. I’m no masculinist but I don’t like watching men get emasculated. Men get up every day and go to work so that they can share all of their income with their loved ones and family. And what do they want in return? Mostly, just to be appreciated.
For four yrs I had a young woman come to my house almost every weekend. After the first yr and a half, she started telling me of her mother's horrible treatment of the kids and the husband. Her older sister had tried to commit suicide 3 times and then she showed me the cuts she had done and told me she had tried 4 times since the age of 10 to kill herself. I suggested for her to tell her parents, ( not smart). She did and her mother said she was just trying to get attention. ( I will mention the extreme poverty they lived under, no running water and no toilet facilities except 5 gal buckets for 8 people). The father wouldn't stand up to the mother who was nearly 350 lbs and growing and an invalid. They got food from the church every month and were feeding 17 dogs that the mother would not let the family get rid of. She said she had celiac disease and demanded the husband buy (from the health food store things she could eat.) Before I knew this abt this sister I really liked her. She'd grown up in a very difficult family and I felt for her. Anyway, this brother and his wife had grown up in very female-dominated abusive families . I told the bishop and he didn't believe me. I, because of the spirit, finally had to call CPS( the family had had this done over 8 times before my complaint)I told the Relief Society president and she didn't believe me. The mother had threatened the kids that if they told abt her to anyone she would hurt them. I know one time the little girl heard her mom was going to a doctor and she was afraid her mother would get physically well. I ask her why and she said, well, now she's in bed she cannot hurt us but if she gets out and can walk around she'll start beating us again. The father who wouldn't stand up to the mother for the kids is a wonderful brother. His kids "KNOW" the gospel but this little girl told me I was the only adult she had ever trusted. I wonder how can they know in their hearts what a good strong loving protective Jesus is if they've not seen that in their homes. Of course, this was made known to the mother and the children aren't allowed to even hardly make eye contact with me at church for the last 4 yrs. I just pray to Heavenly Father they get what they need so that when they get out of the house they can get help. The older sister who had tried suicide got married 3 days after she graduated from high school. The father is the first counselor in the bishopric now. He talks to me and he is a really neat person at church. He's more like the Teddy bear Jesus. I'm so sorry. I probably shouldn't have written this but this is just a small amount of abuse that the girl told me was happening in their home.
@@franciegwin Tragic. Thank you for sharing though. We need to be more aware so we can help and not dismiss.
When I was an EQP I was very discouraged about the attendance in the quorum. My eyes were opened as to the willingness of many here-to-fore non attenders to come and help build a wheelchair ramp for an inactive young man that had been in a near fatal motorcycle accident. They guys that never showed up, showed up with tools and gloves and the philosophers of the quorum who liked to chase down the every doctrinal wind did not show up. The reality that my grandkids live in consists of mostly Disney and MineCraft. They don't know how to build, repair.....they live in an almost totally media based, artificial environment. Good post. We sit around in Priesthood and talk about feelings a lot. I wish we had quarterly sunday meeting where we would put on our work clothes and spend an afternoon doing needed service, Sabbath or not.
I hate going to E.Q. It's all warm and fuzzy talk and no action. Blah!
AMEN! YES!!! As I've gotten older and gotten more experience with life and with God, I have more trust in God and less desire to waste my time at church. They don't ask anything of you there, and as a result, only the "comfortable being comfortable" crowd shows up.
One of the notions that I always hated hearing, that I think has affected Church culture and men’s views about themselves and their worth, is that “women are more righteous and naturally spiritual than men.” I often heard growing up husbands often making the remark that their wife is their “better half” and “more spiritually in tune” than them. I understand these notions are trying to give women confidence and help them to feel loved, but it’s very damaging to many of us men who feel inferior to women from these statements; who feel like the spiritually inept ones in the Work. No, both genders can be equally in tune to the Spirit and spiritual things. We men need to realise again our spiritual potential to receive revelation and lead equally along side the sisters.
If I'm being honest, I genuinely believe these types of comments you're referencing influenced my sexuality when I was a kid. Constantly hearing about how "sacred" women are and better they are, meanwhile men were demeaned or called to repentance, somehow my young mind warped it into believing that any attraction to women was "violating" them. I totally agree with you. These types of comments by people in the church are not helpful and can actually be quite damaging.
I am a woman and I absolutely hated it when people would make remarks about how women were more spiritual than men. I always respected and looked up to my very spiritual husband. I appreciated his knowledge and spiritual leadership in our home. It was such a blessing in our family.
@@dfre102 totally could have! I see other cultural aspects that I think adversely affected my sexual orientation as well. Like the fact that men shouldn’t be physically affectionate with each other too much. As a very sensitive, affectionate boy and man, I think that drove to me to sexualise affection from men because I was craving it and couldn’t get it.
How can one lead if not out in front? Being along side someone is mentoring is it not? Can one lead from behind?
Oh boy! This is huge pet peeve of mine! I cringe every time I hear a "man" in the ward say, "My better half" or "I need to ask the boss." So emasculating for men to say and believe that B.S. It makes them look weak and foolish instead of masculine. Real men, masculine men, are just as capable spiritually as women and are real leaders in their home.
I totally agree. Thank you for bringing this up. Im sure it’s hard as a man. But as a women I agree and support your words.
As the mother of three young men who I hope will be strong husbands and fathers in the gospel, I have seen this trend and what they are up against in society. It has concerned me for a long time. My husband of 31 years is not a member of the church but has always been very supportive of our sons activity in the church. 2 out of three have served missions and one is married in the temple so far. The other two are in their very early 20’s.
It upset me when the priesthood session of general conference was changed to just an extra session. Yet the women still have a women’s session! This is wrong. I don’t have a problem at all with the men having a Priesthood Session. They need that instruction. I’m tired of being coddled as a woman that I need the church or society to prove to me that I’m as important as a man. It’s patronizing to me. Don’t get me wrong. I love the gospel and have a very deep testimony of it, but I am seeing the shift and I don’t like it. I want my man strong and masculine. I want him to keep that drive of wanting to protect me and my children. I know I’m capable of doing it, but I know it important for children to have both role models. A strong man and a strong woman working together. This is a tactic of the adversary to divide us. And you didn’t even bring up the racial side of this. Let’s not mince words that it’s the Caucasian men that are under attack here. I know it’s not PC for me to say that but it’s the truth.
Thank you for your comment!
What a great comment and your observations about white men is right on. Society has declared open warfare against white men and, unfortunately, that thinking has crept into some areas of the church including BYU. Don't get me wrong; the gospel of Jesus Christ has a place for all men and women; sons and daughters of God, but this attack against a population of his sons is part of the war that started in heaven and continues to this day.
Hard times create strong men. These are the perfect conditions. Encourage your sons to be strong.
This was so good. As a mission president I saw the “softening” of the young elders. I continue to see this. I’m not sure what the answer is, but you definitely identified a real problem. Thank you brother!
From boys to men it is a church-wide problem in the US. More on this soon!
@@CwicShow Yes we are all on the Titanic and the water has reached the band that was playing.
So glad my son joined the Marines instead of serving a mission. He went in a boy and came home a real man with confidence and toughness.
This is an issue close to my heart. I won't shy away from saying that some of the leaders have overemphasized the feminine aspects and perspective in an effort to encourage and harness the strengths of our sisters, as well as appeasing the vocal feminazi's in the church. served as a Bishop for a decent spell, had a vibrant ward full of genuine men and women and up to 68 active youth who were engaged and involved. We had awesome YM & YW leaders who loved the youth as much as I did. Together we all, with the parents support had heaps of youth night activities ( now basically a thing of the past) and camps, even a totally ward funded and organised trek where they were encouraged and taught and built up to be healthy, red blooded young men and women of faith, testimony and action. As a young man I played a lot of rugby league and loved every minute of it. Did a bit of old school boxing and got into plenty of stinks at school sticking up for myself and a few others from bullies. The point of all this? stop emasculating young men and buying into this western culture crap of masculinity being toxic. stop teaching young white men in particular that their gender, culture and forefathers were rapacious, racist, misogynistic a-holes who they should repudiate and be ashamed of. With some individual exceptions in all those things, the great majority were excellent men who did much to drag the world forward and lift the whole human family. Stop pandering to PC, Marxist, woke tards and let's support our youth of all backgrounds and from all two genders to live the gospel and not be ashamed to be followers of Jesus's Christ (who happens to be the most masculine and courageous being to ever set foot on this earth) and to live after the manner of happiness. How can something so obvious as the correlation between more and more liberal, so called progressive ideology and the increasing woes of the world and the west in particular be soon visible to so many. Lastly, no apologies for my language. I'll take my chances before the Lord for that if the critics will for some of the rot I've heard at church from those who believe in a teddy bear Jesus😂 Love it.
Thanks for your words. I totally agree. I am not sure why there is such an emphasis on women.. Heck I didn't ask for that and in my life never met a Sister at church who was thinking...we need more of a female focus.
Amen!
I LOVE your comments! You are exactly right. I am a70 year old recent widow,( 3 hard months) and my husband was one of the most faithful, loving.. especially to me, happy, funny men you'd ever known. He treated women with respect, and NEVER Ever asserted unrighteous dominion over me or our children.. he taught them to WORK.. and love their spouses and children. And they do. I AM NOT A VICTIM . I am a beloved daughter of God.. and it was my sweetheart that made sure I knew it ❤
I am so so grateful i KNOW where he is and what he is doing.. he's going about his Father's work.. me? I'm loving our family , serving, and just waiting for that man to take my hand again and say " There's my beautiful wife".
@@GAILandRODthe people who run those programs are women who can't think outside of themselves.
This is definitely an unspoken problem. In conference men are called to repentance and women are told how beautiful and wonderful they are. Men definitely have dropped the ball as far as leading, work, and being strong. However, women have dropped the ball by wanting it all, going work outside the home, looking at men as just something that can be moved about like a chess piece. Men are not prone to rise up and meet those challenges if they are not respected for their needs, interests, and desire to be the breadwinner. Men don’t care about all the fuzzies. They want a good job, to be loved, and to feel like they are not just a chess piece. If women want something different, they better spend a little time understanding the needs of a man.
@@leilettesartoga7276 by following the spirit instead of the natural man. Both men and women need to meet the challenge. However, men and women are different. It is obvious that the challenge isn’t being met. Hence, the topic here, I admire those couples who ‘seem’ to have it all figured out. Divorce is hardly the answer. To be loved and honored is needed by both. So, men by divine decree are to provide the necessities, etc. (Proclamation of the Family). So, there must be something in men, maybe the only thing, that drives them forward to do this. However, for decades they have not only been competing with other men for jobs, but women as well. Without saying it, they aren’t endeared by this extra burden. Media talks about men with ‘trophy’ wives to denigrate them. Regardless of the truth of the criticism, women are searching for the ‘trophy’ husband as well (doctor, lawyer, CEO, etc). No where in there is the mention for a man that honors his Priesthood or a women that elevates that above all else. How about a women that doesn’t’ fit the ‘trophy’ picture? Women have different needs and so do men. I’d say figure it out and be careful about short changing any of those needs. Without an understanding of the fullness of the gospel, it is going to be a tough go. Without the Lord it is going to be a tough go.
Women have voted for weak leaders who in turn have made innocent men into criminals just on their word alone.
Jordan Peterson is probably the best example I can think of when it comes to empowering men. He is an incredible example of masculinity which has been tempered by love.
Men need that brotherhood, call to responsibility, and purpose. It’s different than what women need. And that is probably unpopular to say, but it is absolutely true.
Yes we need more Jordan Peterson and less Ivram Kendi. But I doubt that todays BYU would invite Jordan to speak at a devotional or forum.
JP is a junkie, and his daughter is a single mother that posted pictures in her underwear on Instagram with her child in the background. Both are revolting.
When you put one identy, race, sex ...above another it's a loss for everyone. We need strong, brave men.
Perhaps we need to stop pandering to the many schisms out there and just teach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
you got it
Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. There'll be ten more denominations within the next ten years or so.
Wow. My brothers and I have have been discussing this issue the past few days and you hit it on the head. We've noticed a growing number of young men in the church very different from the young men we grew up with. My brother just ran a multistake week long camp for young men on the east coast and he said he was appalled at the lack of maturity and masculinity from the boys he was around. He brought up wrestling mats and boxing gloves and said the boys had a blast wrestling and boxing eachother, many for the first time in their lives. He professed concern about the kinds of missionaries that will be serving in the next few years. These kids didn't grow up in scouting or going on high adventure due to Covid restrictions. Alot on meds for depression and anxiety. Not interested in hardly anything outside of their smartphones. Lacking in testimony, faith and interest in the Church. My only son returns from his mission tomorrow and I'm thankful he grew up doing 50 mile hikes, multiple campouts and having scout and Young men leaders that encouraged and celebrated his accomplishments and endeavors. We need boys to become men and disciples of Christ.
There are a lot of young men who don't do on missions now because they are too afraid of having so much actual facetime with people
@@geography_guy335 Oh my, that is horrible.
@@geography_guy335 Yes, I know quite a few. Or they left on missions and came home after a few months.
boxing? my goodness its like the invasion of the body snatchers. you are all truly npcs.
As one of those single adult childless men sitting in the pews on Sunday I agree it's very female centric. We have monthly Relief Society and annual Stake Women's Conferences. Nothing like that for the men other than helping families move.
I was volunteering at a church. All I kept hearing is how they need more women to help. The men were doing the labor intensive work. At one point, I had to quit. 10 women doing the paperwork and 2 men doing the hard labor was too much. Sorry but I couldn't take it no more.
Ive been talking about this for more than a decade. Having been in YSA and MSA, most of the male leaders have been largely feminists and they have chased the VERY vulnerable Male members out of activity. They come into the elders quorum and tell us that "the sisters are doing XYZ so much better" or were told we are bad and shallow because were not attracted in the least to a "good sister with a temple recommend" (because thats ALL that matters, right?...if she's got a temple recommend...its your DUTY to date and marry her) .
But the sisters are told that they should NEVER settle in the least for anything less than everything they dreamed. Its insanity .
I was in the Elders Quorum and saw this decline. I actually got into a very heated argument with the Bishop in the parking lot because I told him that he was pushing the elders right out of the church and they were tired of being treated as utter failures .
Our voices settled down and he thanked me for sharing my feelings and being frank w him. I thought it would effect a change....It did.....he got worse! That elders quorum today is a shell of what it used to be.
Men are failing compared to women yet women carry the victim card????
Thank you for having the guts to talk about this. The church needs MEN. The pendulum has swung way too far and yet we still hear women talking about the oppressive patriarchy (despite the church being very soft in tone in the past two decades) and youre seeing more and more men identify as feminists.
The Alpha males who are usually leaders, organized, motivated, successful are fleeing the church.
MSA female here, and I completely agree with you 💯.
I have observed the same thing you have. We are reaping what we have sewn. The church leadership bears responsibility for holding up this current image of men. It seems as though the men in leadership positions are afraid to challenge the current world view of men and offer no resistance to it. The priesthood has less and less meaning as time marches on. Women are equal to men now, meaning there is NO difference between the two. This has destroyed both sexes in the process.
@@andrewwood6285 Its very hard for 99% of members to even see or understand this is going on , especially if they are over the age of 50 and been married for more than 15 years. Even my mom and sisters (none are feminists and pro men) thought I was being hyperbolic. It took them a lot of time to see and hear it from my friends who have left the church, married outside of it, to explain the same thing I have explained. Ive been talking about this forever and been largely dismissed. Eyes are opening as we sit around baffled that men are leaving in droves for a multitude of reasons but this is largely one.
The whole dating scene is crazy even in Utah. Women over age 25 outnumber the YSA men. But women were taught never to settle for a less than perfect man. The main indicator is a returned missionary. What if he is one of the 30% who do not fill the whole mission and return early? What is he could not serve for medical reasons? I also find YSA age women often have unreasonable other expectations for a marriage partner. They should have more of the attitude of the Hollands who were close to broke, still had years of school and student loan debt and uncertainty about the future. Yet they made the choice to get sealed under the covenant and start life together in their early 20s.
@@scottbrandon6244 Yes. I had friends move to Utah to specifically date there because they felt they had no options elsewhere. After 1-2 years they left because they found it was no better. Other than UT, AZ, CA, the singles scene is very very weak. FL doesn't even have MSA and the YSA is just a small small handful. Same w NV....one MSA ward. And if you pull up a meetinghouse locator nationwide for MSA, it is tragic how few options singles over 31 have. In my not so humble opinion, MSA and YSA are why so many singles are leaving the church. Abolish them and just have family wards. YSA (other than college specific wards like BYU) and MSA are toxic and do not elevate....they stagnate. Family wards give members more purpose and more callings. However I will say that there is a stigma in Family wards with singles. Ive been to dozens and a lot of them and fellow members see you as an outsider or they dont know "what to do with you" because its not like you're gonna hang out with other couples. And there's a lot of callings you cant have. So its admittedly weird but this is easily overcome w time and general conference talks and more feedback from Area reps. Should just have family wards and then lots of regional activities for all singles. The division between YSA and MSA is insane. Let people decide who and what age they want to date. No reason a 29 year old should be cut off from a 34 year old. And I hear people point out that they dont want a creepy 45 year old guy talking to a 21 year old. I say Grow up. Lotta older guys in the real world talk to younger women. And maybe he's not even asking out the 21 year old....maybe her just being NICE to him and treating him like a human would really make his day! I talk to women all the time that Im not interested in. This goes back to the coddling and expectations issue.
I will Also say that both my grandmas married non return missionaries and both were awesome husbands. A mission means something but not everything.
I whole heartedly agree! The church in many ways seems to becoming a self-help organization. My husband and two sons have all struggled with going to church because of the feminization and self-help approach the church has taken. Why are we catering to women? The world seems to be worshipping women. Are we unwittingly doing the same? I thought we were to be unspotted from the world, a peculiar people (we certainly don’t hear that anymore.) But the men in my life -who all love God and the gospel and the Book of Mormon - don’t love going to church, and some just refuse to go.
As a financial clerk, I was privy to the yearly budgets for our ward. The young men (prior to scouts going away) was massive when compared to the young woman, but the young women's budget was still very sizable. The young men;s budget is now much lower than the young womens, they simply removed the scouting portion of the budget. The relief society had more than 10x the amount of the Elder's Quorum, which was a paltry $100 for the entire year. The men's entire budget got eaten up to reserve the camp site for the priesthood campout AT A CHURCH OWNED FACILITY! Only about 8 family's showed up to camp because no one else had the equipment to go camping, or didn't want to take small children camping. The whole rest of the year, the men did NOTHING as a group. Men are already struggling to find male friends to then not even get support from the Church. My current calling includes cleaning the church each Saturday. It is like pulling teeth to get anyone to come out and help. Even harder to get the men to come out. When did it become unfashionable for Men to volunteer? I HATE sports. My sons' also HATE sports. EVERY week, what do the young men do for young mens? Play basketball. So of course, my boys don't want to go. Which is why I didn't want to go when I was young either. But they sure do enjoy shooting, axe throwing, board games, construction (wood working, etc.) and other constructive activities. Why aren't they doing those activities? Playing basketball takes no planning and no effort by the leaders. That is why they only play basketball. The leaders don't have time to plan because they are too busy trying to keep their homes running. A lot of their wives are refusing to cook or clean anymore, saying that the men need to do their parts. I have one friend who does all the cleaning, cooking, and transporting the kids, on top of working full time. His wife does nothing. She does go out with a few friends every day for a specialty soda though. If any of them were to complain about what they have to do, they get yelled at and belittled by their wives, mother in laws, wive's friends, etc. Men are fighting a losing battle on more than one front! And if a guy were to go out with friends, he gets the third degree, and pressured not to go anyways.
I know my son is married to a woman who keeps him on a short leash.
I have watched this situation developing in the Church for several years now with great alarm. The feminist effect on Church culture is DEVASTATING.
Years ago I went to LDS datesites . I quickly left. The men were often rude. Many were looking for a free nurse/ cook/ mom com ination. Forget that!
@@turidhanssen3969most women were looking for someone to take responsibility for their choices. Go figure
@@turidhanssen3969what's wrong with having a mother capable of being a mother?
I am a 61 year old single father, I have often thought and have found it very hard to keep my spirit up when it comes to being a husband. I have been married twice and consider myself a masculine priesthood worthy man. I am a temple recommend holder and feel worthy to attend the house of the lord and am willing to be judged on this self explanation on who I am. I was told by a church councillor when my first marriage break down that “you have an unhappy wife hear”. After talking with her for approximately an hour called me in and simply said that . I felt very discouraged and beat. How many times do we hear from the brethren. “ husband love your wives” make them your queen, even though these are absolute truths what’s not said is when it’s not reciprocated it becomes very discouraging and made me feel I was a failure. I’ve always been he’s a
You can’t make a woman happy it’s impossible 80% divorces are filed by women. Women in the church are becoming grouchy old cat ladies.
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Bishops aren't trained. They often do things wrong. They're dealing with all sorts of family issues they were never equipped to handle.
Bring your kids up in light and truth to the best of your ability, get/stay right with God, and ignore anything that tells you you're a failure, or that you're powerless. Because that is pure Satan.
"Cast not away therefore thy confidence" as the New Testament instructs.
God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
You have POWER and LOVE and a SOUND MIND. Claim those blessings and leave aside losers who would convince you otherwise, even if they're "leaders". They're weak losers.
Greg, this really hit home for me. This has been my argument for years now. I would suggest that a big part of this problem lies inside the homes of the young men, unfortunately many of the young men do not have masculine role models. I grew up on a run down farm in the 70s and 80s and life was a struggle, but I learned how to work hard and be a responsible person. I have taught my sons to value hard work, be tough, and especially to not be a quitter when things get hard. Sadly, many young men today are not getting that message at home. I took the time to go camping with them, hiking, fishing, shooting guns, sports, and "yes" we wrestled and did very physical activities together. It will be difficult for the church to undo mistakes being done inside the homes. Bottom line, the men who are active in the church must take their roles as fathers seriously and show their sons how to be men.
This is so important, thank you Greg!
I think as women in the church and in our society, we need to be the ones standing up for and valuing what men bring and have always brought to our lives.
Men will have a hard time pointing out their value to society without being accused of toxic masculinity or privilege.
Our innate traits and differences as men and women are complimentary, and much needed.
I couldn’t be more grateful for the good men in my life (of which the vast majority of men I know are)
MamaMel11, you got it right. Men need to feel like we are valued for what we bring to a marriage, a family and to the church. Your last comment about being grateful for the good men in your life goes a long way. Men want to be respected and appreciated for the sacrifices and service that we give in our marriage, in our family and in the church. When the women in our lives are ungrateful and unappreciative of all of our efforts and sacrifices and/or are disrespectful and won't allow us to lead our family in prayers, scripture study, giving priesthood blessings to family members or have any say in family matters and the raising of our children, then some men just give up and won't bother trying anymore. There's a lot of talk about how men should treat their wives righteously and without unrighteousness dominion (and that is definitely a correct principle) but where are the women of the church held accountable for how they treat their husband. I've seen a whole lot of unrighteousness dominion exercised by women in the church towards their husband's and the fathers of their children, and not a word of correction is uttered. Gratitude and respect would go a long ways to reverse these demographic trends in the church.
Men need people to be honest. That's all.
Some of the best advice I ever received was from my favorite Seminary teacher. We were talking after class one day about doubting one’s testimony and having a faith crisis and he turned to me and said:
“I hope you wrestle for your faith. I hope you engage in the struggle you need to go through in order to grow in your witness of Christ.” I realize now, that is what’s missing for men in the church; that true and lasting conversion and discipleship should be a wrestle, a struggle and yes even a fight at times. I’m reminded of Enos wrestling in mighty prayer with God, or Jacob wrestling the Angel, or David fighting Goliath. These are the heroic role models men need now more than ever.
Yes! I think our culture is so focused on "staying safe" we never grow up! We're afraid to! We're afraid of tough issues or problems. Boys should face their fears and wrestle with them! And if mom rescues them all the time, we're in trouble!
I'm a sister and your comment made me think of how I have STRIVED HARD for my testimony. Thanks for the comment.
Wow you really struck a nerve here. You are so absolutely correct! Where are the boys and young men? Males need groups, gangs if you will. The Church dropped Scouting and our YMs program fell apart. Our ward is spread out. Not everyone lives in Utah! We are raising 2 grandsons who are now teens. Their grandfather is a pilot near retirement age. He is gone every other week. When Scouting stopped the boys got more heavily involved in sports. That was a good/bad thing. Then the schools shut down for a year and a half! Neither of them go to church now. They were SO active. Natural leaders. It's devastating to us. The Church decided to eliminate the high priest group. The men in our ward miss that group. Of course age isn't the determining factor here but it is a factor. On July 4th, there was no flag in our chapel. I have a flag scarf which I brought to the podium and displayed as I bore my testimony. I taught SS and insisted that the flag be brought out! I am a veteran. So many men came forward and thanked me! I am SICK to death of the "women are somehow victims" mentality in the Church now! It isn't so and it hasn't been so. We have ALWAYS had a voice! The Brethren need to stop listening to whoever has their ear and start listening to the Spirit. I said out loud what MANY are thinking but afraid to voice. Listen to the earlier GC talks. There was strength in them. That's gone. I am an Army vet and guess what? Women and men are different! We are supposed to be! The PC garbage doesn't belong in any Christ centered church we have lost so many members who feel like the Church has abruptly changed. They feel lost. These are middle aged men and women btw. They believe the gospel is true.
I 100% agree with this. The core issues we face as a society can all be traced back to abandoning the masculine and elevating feminine energied policy and ideals. This is (I believe) why the priesthood is a program of advancement for the males, it develops this role and purpose that is lacking in every area. I've been considering this for a few months now, and I see this, you've hit the nail on the head. I am a single mom raising kids and even though my ex is a deadbeat spiritually and as a father (he was so dedicated and strong when we started out) I see how much my kids miss in my parenting not having that masculine leadership and energy in the mix. It's critical. I don't know how to course correct this, it seems to me to be out of control. I work "on campus" and I see it careening into icebergs, male student participation is decreasing rapidly, the women are driven and snide about men, the men are apathetic and unmotivated in pursuing marriage... society is collapsing and it is all driven by bitter, angry feminine energy that despises all things masculine and nurtures and oppresses life while the masculine evaporates and is lost in the online world of nothingness seeking something/anything to own and overcome. The scriptures prophesy seven women will take hold of one man, it is going to get worse.
As a single woman dating in her forties and seeing first hand the crisis with men and the church, the vast majority leave following a divorce, they have no space for it and they are tired. It's easier to drink, have casual sex, and free weekends than listen to women pick at them about every little thing and try to turn them into feminized masculine types to become "besties" rather than silver backed gorillas who lead, protect, provide...
The angry bitter female left are destroying society. I'll die on that hill. They have no self-awareness, are indulging their mothering with destructive and oppressive policies, and their internal anger and rage at men leaves the men emasculated and disconnected from their energy.
You have some poignant insights I'm surprised more people have not commented on. I want to be clear in not scapegoating, but it is hard to ignore that the anti-male feminism that has been allowed to invade and develop in LDS culture is, at least in part, a root cause of men disappearing. After all, is it not primarily the mothers that raised these boys to be less masculine? Men are most certainly at fault to not have had a backbone to stand up against anti-male feminism. But our culture should have been a refuge against this worldly trend of demonizing men, and the women should have been there in the forefront, not as a primary driver of eradicating masculinity.
That about sums it up. Very accurate
I am so grateful for the men in our ward who took the time to teach my son on how to be a man. My husband and I divorced when our boy was only two and, although I'm not a very 'soft' woman, I can not be a male role model.
But we were very blessed. There were a lot of boys in our Youth and they all were good friends. They hung out a lot, at school, at church and in their playtime. And the fathers of the other boys included Jake in a lot of their family activities. Jacob never missed a father and son camp. They had fun and they were taught their duties. A good balance. Almost all of that group of Young Men served missions and most of them are now active men in the church.
(We're in England)
Good feedback!
So glad to hear this. It warms my heart.
I'm a single father. I have primary custody of my two boys. I am the *only* single father or single adult male I see attending in my ward. You're squarely hitting my demographic. I haven't finished this episode yet, but have stopped to comment in response to your questions regarding what messages do we in the church have for men.
I love our prophet President Nelson. I absolutely sustain him as prophet, seer, and revelator. Moreso than that, I've been somehow, not of my own accord, been given a testimony by revelation he is not just "the next in line", but truly foreordaind for this position at this time. I say that as I don't want to cause any questioning of the same by pointing out the following.
President Nelson has, right or wrong, continued to set the tone at the top that 'women are valuable, wonderful, can almost do no wrong, and are the key to missionary work and ushering in the millennium'. It's been a very hope-filled, inspiring, and affirmative-as-child-of-God message. Conversely, the tone has been nearly the opposite towards men. Perhaps because he never raised a boy, and he's a unique and extraordinary individual himself while growing up, he simply doesn't relate to the fact men can use inspiration and encouragement as well, not simply messages of "do better be better" (April 2019), or a string of 'I'm disappointed in you, because of you inherently, now shape up!'. Perhaps it's me, but every message I've heard from president Nelson pertaining to men has had an aire of 'you are failing'. I don't believe he has done this as much as of late, but in the first couple years it was very prevalent and acute.
Perhaps it's because I DO attend church and strive as hard as I can to be faithful and good, that I'm a single parent trying to get my boys on missions despite one of their mother's inactivity and faithlessness that the tone at the top (and pervasive in the culture) sticks out as demoralizing to me. What is clear though, and I could recall multiple examples, is that the tone of the top (and the tone I've felt from the *culture* since conversion 30 years ago), is that men inherently suck and your efforts are insufficient to overcome that suckiness, and women are inherently close to perfection and to be worshiped and are the key to ushering in perfection to this earth.
I don't know if this is the one area President Nelson has a blind spot, if this is the message the Lord wants put out as perhaps some sort of test, or some sort of motivation for a specific demographic... I don't presume know. Perhaps it is by divine design, and I'm content to leave that an open question. I still know President Nelson is a prophet. Unquestionably so. He's the only man besides my father that I can say I actually feel active love towards. I just wish whenever I hear him address men that I didn't get the impression he views me as lesser, unworthy, failing, a disappointment.
President Hinkley did the same. Under his time I would detest attending mother's day and father's day Sunday services. On Mother's Day: Women are wonderful and we need you so much, blah, blah, blah. But on Fathers Day: you really need to step it up and quit mistreating your wives'. Thankfully those Sunday services have not been so blatantly bipolar in messaging in the last decade or so. I never recall anything of the sort from President Benson, the prophet during my conversion, even though I was aware of the undercurrents in the LDS culture. Nor from President Monson (Hunter's short stint was while I was on my mission, and to short to have significant impact on the topic). I felt respected, even if encouraged to step up under President Monson. But Hinkley and Nelson seem to be products of the broader culture that I see really ramping up secularly since the 1990s that men are dolts, unnecessary, and irretrievably neanderthals,.
The LDS culture and tone at the top is not one that is attractive to men of value. Those that I would propose are the elect of the earth. Those that would be great and humble leaders, faithful members, why would they join a society that does not uplift except by threat of the emotional swatting? The gospel the church carries is still of course attractive to such men, but the culture may turn then off first. Thanks be to God I found the church while still only 16 and ignorant of these things. Today, having seen the dark side that exists in women as well as men, having a more firm healthy respect of my value as a child of God, I would be seriously hesitant to even opening up to consider the necessary steps to allow spiritual conversion if I were aware of how I've experienced the perception of men in the LDS culture.
President Nelson had one son, just for the record. But, pretty much yeah. Many men who have lots of daughters, or who only have daughters, seem to have this anti-boy attitude, and then they wonder why their daughters can't find good, righteous husbands. Is it because boys who would have been strong and righteous men felt the vibe from men like them and chose to go to a more accepting environment?
@@williamphillips2060 Thanks for the correction William. That slipped my mind. Perhaps because what I recall hearing from him multiple times is a primary focus on his daughters!
As a woman I also enjoy the repent message. I can't stand the you are weak and probably will fail a lot message.
@@stacihymas4539 I also have been hearing from the other churches on UA-cam about the call to repentance. I think our church could use some more of that.
My family and I had just discussed this a few weeks ago on Fathers Day. Why were there no talks on fathers or any special 2nd hour programs like that done for Mothers Day. On Mothers Day, the men in our ward filled in for the women's 2nd hour teaching callings so the women could all be together for a special program. Nothing like that for Fathers. Men got gypped.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying. I'd add that this is affecting the women, and it is a huge problem and burden for us. We need men to step up and take charge, to be responsible, to provide, protect, and preside with power and authority. Women cannot thrive in our feminity without strong, masculine structure and protection. It may appear as though women are flourishing in the current "teddy bear Jesus" and feminism dominant culture, but we're not. We can't play both roles. We're miserable and suffering and starving for masculinity.
You do realize don't you, that is the feminization of society and church culture that is the root cause of what you are concerned about? Quit adding to the Trope about men needing to step up. Perhaps women need to quit beating them down so they give a damn to step up for women that are worth being stepped up for
How many women want their men to step up? Most of you want the power but not the responsibility. When your men attempt to step-up you undermine every decision, ridicule viewpoints etc. I am 46 . Married for 24 years. Church member all my life. I have seen the weak men dominated by their wives. As Isaiah said, women shall rule over them and children shall lead them. Not a good thing. You may want to look in the mirror before claiming men need to step up. And no many Church women don't like me. I see thru the BS. Take pornography for example. It is portrayed as male issue by women who are reading 50 shades of gray on their tablets and romance novels on their shelves. 70 percent of divorces are filed by women. Ask yourself how many women would allow their man to assume the patriarchal role, much less follow him as he tried to follow the Lord, if their bank account and easy lives are disrupted. The answers are not good.
@@jaredkarns6663 I'm very self-aware and I mean every word that I said. I see what you're saying, and believe you when you say your efforts to "step up" are met with resistance. The gender crisis goes both ways. When men become weak and insecure, women become more masculine. Although, when men lead with true priesthood power and authority, faithful women are happy to support and follow. But, this won't be an automatic change. It'll take some trial and error to restore masculine/feminine balance and order within families and The Church, especially considering how pervasive feminism has become.
You're right, we need both women to be feminine and men to be masculine, but this was a video about a lack of masculinity, not a video about a lack of femininity. That's why my comment pointed the finger at men. It was not meant to be a personal attack.
@@andreaashfordd oh I figured that and believe me, there was nothing being taken personal. I just have heard this line and similar from Sisters who mean nothing that they said. I don't know you and so you may be different. But I have heard this from single sisters who would vomit out to anyone all the negatives of their exes, married sisters who do the same about their current, sisters who divorce when financial fortunes change while they are young enough to hook another, and women who twist scripture into whatever they want to hear. My mother aunts and sister and deceased grandmother fit most of those categories. Women have more power than ever today and look at the assault on reason and the family. Who drives almost all of the trans agenda? Women and feminized men. The Gadiantons got to women years ago as a group. Look at the Sister leadership in the Church. Telling girls to be themselves with bleached teeth, dyed hair and most of the tinklings of Babylon. Last conference a sister tried to excuse the use of aborted fetal tissue in the CV19 vaxx as if there was a statute of limitations in the Lord's eyes on infanticide. Millstone and all that. You may mean well and I pray you do, but the emasculated men have been mostly raised by their mothers. The mothers of stripping warriors we do not have, at least not enough. Far too many are way too comfortable in Babylon. We now have almost 2 generations of emasculated men. Why do you think priesthood session was done away with? Women didn't like the men having a separate session, even if they could watch it. Feminism has reached deep into Christianity and corrupted it. Thatis why every Christian denomination is hemorrhaging membership. You destroy the men , then the women are bitter and discontent while they refuse to allow what would make them happy. For their males to become men. To protect, provide and preside. To become men like unto Capt. Moroni. Because then the women would have to step up their game. And they have been told for over 2 decades that they are so special. I b truly feel that much of the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth will be mostly from how many women who were never held accountable for their actions will suddenly be held so. Luck to you . God bless
@@jaredkarns6663 Yes Jared, because tons of women in the church are reading 50 Shades of Grey nowadays. I'm not saying no women read it, but there is ZERO comparison to the pornography epidemic to things like reading romance or smutty novels. Ridiculous comparison.
These statistics were presented in a recent ward council in my ward YSA ward:
In Utah county, "only 8% of males who went on missions but did not marry before age 30 are still active by age 30. 25% for women.
"Almost all males who do not go on missions leave the Church by age 22.
"Most women who go inactive do so between the ages of 27 - 32. They feel God has abandoned them."
These are close to numbers I have seen of actual studies.
Those are similar to my findings. Males have a higher probability of staying active if they serve a mission, marry in a temple before age 30 and start a family shortly thereafter.
When I was In the MSA (32+ yrs old) EQ I can tell you that just in our small region , it was about 1% activity for men. The list of "less actives" was over a thousand. Basically three FULL wards of just singles evaporated from college to age 32.
I constantly tell my sisters and brothers this info because sometimes they'll stress how they want their kids to take their time getting married and focus on school first. I tell them that they have about a 3 yr window post mission before many kids are largely fading out of the church. Marriage is your #1 determinant of activity other than a strong testimony. But a testimony fades real fast when youre depressed and single and feel God has no plan for you...
My parents thought I was a bit extreme with my numbers but when they moved to Utah, they were assigned to help RE-activate the mostly male youth at UVU. Their SP said that within 3 months of returning from their missions, FIFTY percent were less active to inactive.THREE MONTHS! My parents worked with those youth a ton to try and get some back on track. The main thing the youth would say is that they just felt "lost" and invisible.
@ruckin3 that is alarming. and tragic.
@@aspen1love135 Deeply! Yes....I agree. There is a consequential wave coming as a result.
Man this is so spot on. The call to adventure is essential. I've often noted how within the church we don't have the same types of cultural norms that men outside the church have. We don't have the same types of camaraderie and outlets. It's often looked down upon, or at least many think it will be looked down on, if they have interests outside of Father/Provider/Husband. We don't have the "get a beer with the guys" kind of thing. It's rare I can get guys to go do anything. Elders quorum activities are abysmally attended. I've tried inviting friends in my ward to go on a ONE DAY trip. Just overnight...can't do it. Can't get away. Too many responsibilities. They always are glad you thought of them, and would love to go "next time". But you just don't have that sense of community any more. For all the problems and faults, we had far more sense of community growing up in the 80's/90's.
Absolutely agree. The thing that concerns me with this loss of brotherhood is the lack of concern (or even acknowledgement) by both leadership and membership alike. As mentioned in the episode, the issue is met with a collective shrug, at best. In the broader Christian faiths in the U.S. there are groups, books, seminars, retreats, etc specifically for men in search of a Band of Brothers. John Eldredge has made a big impact in that space. Who/what do we have to address this void? *crickets*
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Also, I must recommend Jordan B Peterson's recent upload A Message To The Christian Churches. Powerful.
@@yeboscrebo4451 please say more. You think it's intentional? For what purpose?
I love this example of challenging the young men by letting them experience boxing. I had a Bishop in St. George that was a golden glove boxer, he was a best friend of Gene Fullmer and his brothers, they used to put on boxing matches for raising funds for activities, this was an amazing experience for those who participated. To this day, 40 years later, our group of friends have great ties to each other and most of us are strong in the gospel.
Thanks for sharing!
When I was in fourth grade in 1964, my school class went to the state fair, where I won a raffle for a pair of boxing gloves signed by Gene Fullmer. I even went to his house to pick them up and talked with him for a while. I was in awe as a ten year old.
Excellent message! You are SPOT ON! We need manly men. Our youth need these role models to look up to. Women need powerful manly men to partner with in life and eternity! So grateful for my manly husband, brothers, father and grandfathers and the powerful, strong leaders they have been in our family and in the church. The good that they have produced and continue to inspire in all of us is immeasurable. Thank you for speaking life into this!
Thank you for your words. You are welcome!
I think, due to criticisms of the church being "patriarchal," there's been a move towards parity in as many things as possible. Parity often makes sense. However, an unfortunate consequence is a perceived diminishing of priesthood and a lesser focus on men. For example, things like eliminating the priesthood session of conference, folding high priests into elders quorum, having aaronic priesthood advancement be like sunday school and done in groups by younger age instead of being individualized, etc all tend to reduce the perceived value/importance of priesthood.
Bishops are trying to focus on the youth but it's hard to push back the secular tsunami of false and anti-religious messages that kids are bombarded with in school and by friends and social media. Meanwhile, adult men get less attention. Society treats men as babies, with too much scorn and disrespect.
Thanks for the video. We definitely need the reminder of the value and need for strong and dependable men.
I don't understand why we have submitted to the idea that patriarchy is a bad thing. The biblical patriarchal tradition is awesome. Once you cede this ground to the cultural Marxists, you're playing by their rules and they will win. Patriarchy (and family) is THE bulwark against tyranny.
Doing a 50 mi hike next week. We are fortunate to have an outstanding group of young men.
Thank you for bringing this issue up. I became inactive as a young teen and one of the main reasons was this. It took me 25 years to return not because I regained my faith as I never lost it, but I realized I had to stop using excuses that was keeping me from my progression. I will admit I go for God, myself, and my family, and that’s how I put it in perspective because I still don’t fit in, but I do hurt for these young men and even grown men in general. This has been a growing trend for years. Not just in the church, but in western culture. My son struggles coming to church as I did, and much of it is he doesn’t fit in and he is all boy. I have thought what can we do. What programs could be implemented to help these young men and boys. We need something that incorporates not just spiritual but emotional, physical, and mental health. It’s okay to be a man! There is nothing wrong with masculinity. These boys need to know that. They need to learn to harness it and embrace it. We are sons of God and he has given us special gifts just as he has given special gifts for his daughters! Being masculine doesn’t mean you have to be violent belligerent or a chauvinist, but we don’t have to be weak or feminized. Men gravitate to strength, power and brotherhood. We are at war with the evils of society and Satan himself. It is in our nature to protect and fight and We need to know our brothers have our backs and we will fight together. I would like to know what ideas do you have to change this culture. I have asked our bishopric. Granted I’m in the elders quorum but these young men will soon be with us and I have asked what can we do to better prepare and help them. I personally wish we had a program that was similar to scouts in many ways but I feel even that could be enhanced and made better. Something that would help teach skills and life lessons. Something that will help them gain those bonds with their peers and learn how to work with their elders. Something that will help them find who they are and help them gain a testimony of God the church and themselves! I know they have a program but in truth I’m not real fond of it as it doesn’t address the issue in my opinion. What are others views. Maybe I’m way off track.
Great comment coming from the front line. Have you ever heard Cleon Skousen's "so you want to raise a boy"? It's on you-tube...very insightful and hilarious. He goes through each year of a boy's life and what's fairly normal....it's great...Yes the program for girls and boys Primary age could be really great. Not much on merit or getting little tokens of accomplishment. Heck growing up in the 60's and 70's...I had a banner with little glue on symbols of accomplishments I did. It was so awesome. Not participant trophies, but physical and spiritual goals. Miss those old days.
I confess, I have often felt I didn't fit in. Perhaps it is because of where I grew up as compared to where I have lived the second half of my life.
As far as men in the church. I have not seen the disappearance of a Young Men's Presidency and the Scout program as being anything positive at all. After I was released from the Bishopric, I was put into YM Presidency just before they ended YM Presidency.
.I've been under a few Bishops and been a warm body advisor sometimes given assignments where I need Leader access and don't have it. We have dismantled the YM program brick by brick. I'll include the church sports competitions I grew up with. The Scout merit badge program that exposes possible career choices. The YW have a presidency and the program that has been built for decades remains intact but building YM has turned to nothing from what I grew up with. How are we going to raise a generation of YM into Men who will take leadership in the home and monetary responsibility? The path has been dismantled. It's really up to the parents to pass down that tradition and that is dissapearing. I'm glad I was in YM in the 70s.
I would have been so upset if my son's had no scouting and young men's which is essential even more so today than it may have been in years past! I wonder why young women still have a program. I do like more parent's teaching their families rather than placing responsibility of teaching wholly upon church leaders.
I was recently released from Young Men's. When they took away the presidency the Bishop also became completely M.I.A. I can't adequately explain how completely isolated and left to flounder I felt. It's the only calling I feel like I have 100% failed at. I still don't understand why the church dismantled the YM Presidency and perhaps never will.
This is easy to answer. The gospel is family. Society has made it so men don't want to be married, it's a lose-lose scenario for them. They see this and check out...without hope.
Thank you for this video. It's a terrible tragedy for everyone! I believe that feminism is at the root of this problem. 😔
More than anything, I wish, hope,and pray that my husband would rise up and become the spiritual leader that our family needs.
I hear this so often. It is what most women want.
I'm with you on that. ❤️
Yes, I believe it’s what most women want, but sadly most don’t recognize that fact, and continue to emasculate men.
Indeed, Greg! You’ve nailed it
!! I’ve asked these questions and still ask them. Where are the defenders? Where are the protectors? Where are the soldiers for Christ? Where is the counsel and definition that USED to come across the pulpit. Anymore, it’s been “do not defend or contend for the faith. You might offend or drive away the weak of faith.” We need to stop catering to the snowflakes. We need to stand for something as President Hinckley once said. Thank you for this interesting facet to explore. Rise up, Oh Men of God!!
statistically there's about 1/1000 people out there who are not "at ease in Zion" Let's unite and wake the others up. 3 people with the same sign in their neighborhood start to change minds for better or for worse. Look at the rainbow mafia and the Ukraine nonsense. People are herd animals for better or for worse. We need to learn law and stop giving the NWO and other Gadiantons a pass. ( Helaman 6:38)
@@MrBillmechanic sorry, my man, but your arguments are not relevant to our conversation. You’re grinding the wrong axe. …and yelling to-boot.
100%. I miss that hard line. It inspired! Something to live up to and a strong identity
I was raised by a Vietnam Vet who converted to the church. Many of the other men I grew up around were Korean War, WWII Vets, ranchers, farmers, and blue-collar workers. I was taught how to hunt, fish, work on cars, mend fences and do almost any other manual task needed around the house. I had many examples of what a man should be and they all lived it. I watched how my dad treated my mom, his mom, and sisters and what it meant to be the Patriarch of the family. I have tried to reach my boys the same things but realized the world is not the same place and those traits aren't looked upon as "good traits". It is difficult to teach my boys some of these lessons when everywhere they look they are told the exact opposite. I know I am not everyone's cup of tea but I am perfectly fine with it. As always Greg, you have hit the nail on the head. Bravo!
Thanks Joe!
Your boy's will thank you for teaching them how to be men even if they complain at the time. Our son's tell us they're grateful all the time now that they have a family of their own.
This is a great podcast. We have lost the meaning of man/manhood. You can not be a leader if you are not first a man. He have become so worried about not offending, on being tolerant because heaven forbid that we tell the truth and offend someone. Truth is hard, truth offends but truth is necessary to set direction and keep the gospel. It takes courage to tell the truth.
I have been waiting for this video for a long time. Thank you for everything you’re doing and sharing. It’ll make the lords church a better place. A stronger and more capable place.
Oh, Greg, I could not agree more! You have said so perfectly what my husband and I have been talking about for years! God bless you for getting out so many very critical messages that we don’t hear anywhere else! Speaking it is the beginning. I hope this message gains traction in the church.
No ideas here. We just finished a 4 week series shaming men. Every social group is led by women. No idea at all why men have bolted.
Thanks for covering this topic. I’ve listened/read several of Alison Armstrong‘s books/seminars. She talks about how women instinctively try to emasculate men because of men being more powerful and scary but for women who accomplish emasculating their husbands, they lose sexual attraction towards them. I feel that culturally women have either emasculating men or the many of the men who aren’t emasculated, keep their mouth shut.
It breaks my heart to see my sons not being strong men.
I cringe at the thought that I may have contributed in any way.
Men we need you and want you to be strong men.
Thank you Tami. Thank you for bringing in your experience reading Alice Armstrong's books. Thank you for being humble enough to recognize what some of us men feel on a regular basis. Damned if we do follow our god-given nature to be masculine, damned if we don't. With many women there is no possible way for men to succeed interpersonally. The reverse is true as well of course, but it's refreshing to see an honest discussion such as yours of how the interplay may be contributing.
Women have fought for and won the war for total equality. Enjoy your spoils of this war women. The world is yours! Men are vanquished.
@@yeboscrebo4451 Outstanding! Very well stated. I’ve been searching for a way to describe it. Thanks!
I'm just starting the video. You mentioning less men made me think of how it's hard for singles to do ordinances for the opposite sex. My first instinct was that men need to be at the temple more to help with that, but they are also needed in all of the other areas as well.
When did society decide that masculinity was bad? Did it start with the feminist movement? I don't understand why masculinity gets confused with brutality. A real man doesn't have to prove he's a man.
Much of what you talk about is discussed at length in this book: The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Sommers. A good read! Also, both my wife and I stayed active in the church and brought our kids every Sunday, but all four of our children - 3 girls and 1 boy - all left the church when they became adults. Sad.
I've watched her PragurU videos and she's spot on!
Thank you for sharing. Stay strong and know that the values you taught your children as you raised them are still there. They always will be.
I'm a single woman in my mid to late 20's, and I am so frustrated. The dating pool is basically non-existent. The good, Christ-like, strong men around my age got married awhile back, because they were listening when the Leadership told them to ask on dates. It's been years since I was asked on a date. The single guys my age aren't showing up to Church. They're not being built up to contribute and lead, so they don't commit, even after serving a mission. I am searching for a good man who's close to the Spirit, protective, and ready to work hard to build the kingdom and provide for a big Christ-centered family. Where are they hiding?
They are hiding from the men are bad woman are good doctrine which permeates the church.
I've heard this from LDS single women before. I am sorry that it has come to this. I am doing my part by raising a 15-year-old son to be the man you describe.
Great episode Greg. As a father of two daughters this has been a topic my wife and I often lament. We see the lack of initiative in the young men our daughters ages. They are hesitant and timid in all aspects of their lives, from church to career do their ability to take the lead on a simple date. I feel they may be confused and almost apologetic to be masculine as masculinity has been so demonized in our society. I will have both my sons watch this episode because I think it is such an important topic right now. Thanks
My oldest daughter, a loving yet powerful wife and mother has complained for years about the western secular world's "war on boys and men", and it's Fabian like creep into the culture of the church. As you say so eloquently, we need powerful, Christ like men who will honor and protect women, but as well as themselves. Masculinity and femininity are equal poles that help keep life, and eternity in balance.
I am writing under my husbands name, and agree wholeheartedly. What we are seeing now is the fallout of that war that has been/ is being waged. We are raising a family full of men. And my hopes are that we are recognizing and circumnavigating the efforts to take the man out of my boys.
My ward in Seattle actually has an opposite problem to the one of women bringing the kids to church on their own. Here I have noticed many men trying to stay strong after their wives leave the church. The pattern seems to be that they bring their kids for awhile, but then end up coming alone while the children stay home with the mother. I've admired these men's perseverance. But it seems like they're having a tough time in circumstances they did not expect. I imagine you're right though, generally speaking, about there being an imbalance in numbers toward women. Just not everywhere.
I can believe it. I think it's women who are more seduced by the hardcore Leftist activism than men. I've seen similar issues in parts of LA. Lot of feminist women wearing pantsuits.
When I lived in Seattle I went to the 1st ward. And that ward at the time moved all the kids to the stake center and out of the ward. I am not sure if its like that now but Seattle is a strange place.
@@jojothemonkey6420 Why did they do that? I agree, Seattle is a strange place.
At least for men who already have families, there aren't many outside of church activities for them like there are for women. We have women's conferences and activities every month. My husband works from home and sometimes talks about needing close friendships but feeling like he lacks that. It would be wonderful to have a men's conference that would look differently from women's but that help men bond beyond their church and priesthood "duties".
Great discussion. I’ve noticed this for a long time now. Missionaries that are going out come back quick because they can’t handle the work of being on a mission and being away from mom and dad. When I was on my mission I embraced the suffering that was involved, spiritual, physical, and at times emotional. But it angered me that there were many missionaries whose mothers wouldn’t let them go, they would send them gift packages every week, contact members of the wards that we were serving in to give them messages throughout the week, heckle the mission president(s) about worries they had for their boys, etc. Now missionaries are on smart phones with Facebook and call home weekly from my understanding. Not doing any favors for this generation. What ever happened to be tough, have faith, and work hard?
Right!?? How you gonna get to know God if Mom stops you from turning to Him in your extremity and need?
Young men need to be kicked out into the "lone and dreary world" and have an adventure. That's what life is after all. If you cower in your house, you are barely living.
There is no proof for a biblical god at all
I love seeing somebody finally talking about this. I have been feeling many of these same feelings. A good men is almost extinct. We have many men who model to us how to get started, but few live long enough to show us how to finish. We have few voices, few fathers, few compasses, few leaders, and few guides to speak to us. That means we have few compasses to chart the course, to lead us through the maze of masculinity.
My 7 year old grandson didn't want to learn about Joseph and the coat of many colors. I took the approach that Joseph needed to battle himself, his brothers and the challenges of life to finally achieve his purpose. When I concluded our discussion he asked for more stories as well as future discussions. Stories of overcoming tension seemed to be missing from his life. Most who signed the constitution were in their 20's. Our society has done a good job at removing the tension necessary to create good men. You brought up baseball. Trophies for all is just a small piece of the damage that is being inflicted on the male psyche . To convince others in this generation that these things matter is an uphill battle.
agree
This is a very important insight Greg, which I have been thinking much about myself in recent years. Here in Ireland, we have noticeably more sisters than brethren in the Church. It is a timely and genuine concern - not because we don't want lots of Sisters in the Church but because we have a huge need for priesthood brethren to be actively engaged and lead out in the homes and in the Wards/Stakes/Missions and Temples. When I was a missionary in England 30 years ago, we had some units in which nearly all the people baptized were women and children - as far as I can tell that trend continues to today. I have certainly noticed that we seem to have twice as many sisters coming to serve as full time missionaries compared to brethren. It is not just at the moment that this shortage of men - both in numbers and in capacity to bear difficult burdens - is pertinent, but it will have deep resonance for the Church over the next 50 years and longer. It is also true that this culturally potent idea of a teddy bear Jesus has made it very difficult for many men to feel they have a relevance and role that suits their innate desires for strength, courage, overcoming, adventure etc.
In Canada we have at most 25% active male youth and a small percentage of them even show the remotest interest in serving missions. Of those who serve about 30% return home early from missions.
@@scottbrandon6244 and where exactly can I find these statistics?
@@EstevanLPLeal The church doesn't publish anything about this. But there are members (some professionals) compiling our own data sets and sharing the information. I also know some who work for the church.
@@scottbrandon6244 weel, it seems like these are more of an impression than actual statistics that represent what is really going on...because I also known someone who works in the missionary department and is unbiased, and they said that this is not even remotely close to reality...
Jordan Peterson is taking this on in a secular front.
@fuzzywigschickenemporium he knows more about the Bible than your average lukewarm
I couldn’t agree with you more! I have lamented the same drop off in masculinity. I am 84 years old and remember very well that the effect of Sermons (which don’t have anymore) had on me as a little girl. I grew up with strong, dedicated Priesthood leaders and it had a profound affect on me. I grew up in Florida and I remember when I was 11 years old, our Stake President preached in our sacrament meeting . We were supposed to go from 6:00-7:30 pm. He preached until 9:00 pm and I didn’t want him to stop! How I long for those days. In fact I just had a talk with a member of a bishopric and told him how I felt. He sort of agreed with me. What is to happen?
Thanks Greg for this video, I feel like "male masculinity" has become lost in the identity shuffle that has happened in the last decade and is something that is sorely needed. It's a loss for everyone.
The gospel is a personal relationship with the Savior. The church is the good ship Zion. As one who went through a divorce, the desire to stay on the covenant path is your own. No one can walk the path for you, leadership can only do so much to help you stay the course because the world we live in here in North America isn't going to help men out in any way, but that's no reason to leave the church. This is a crisis of faith amoung the men, we need to rise up and be men. To act, not to be acted upon. The choice is ours.
I recently graduated from college up in the northwestern part of Washington State. I was baptized my freshman year and spent all 4 years in the same ward. My senior year of college I was called to be the Elders Quorum President of that ward which covered the entirety of our county (for reference of the size of the county we had people driving 70-80 minutes to get to church). Our Elders Quorum was minuscule to almost non-existent on some days. Our ward essentially had a 2:1 ratio of women to men. There were maybe 4 men who held the Melchizedek priesthood and the rest either had the Aaronic priesthood or no priesthood at all. There was little interest in progressing towards ordination to the higher priesthood, participating in temple ordinances, and almost never any interest in our meetings as I was constantly met with blank stares. I tried to adapt to help the guys but even on weeks where I had asked what they were wanting to learn/talk about so I could prepare it would still be just as quiet. We were located across the street from what is arguably the most Liberal/Left school in Washington state and so many people just end up going there to hide from the church. Almost all of the people that we tried to contact or perform outreach to were men. It’s not any better back home either. A lot of the young men that helped me as I was learning about the church and building my testimony have fallen away as well. I’m afraid that in the next few years I might be one of the only few guys left. The same young men that were so luminescent with the light of Christ have dimmed so much and it breaks my heart because I don’t know how to help those who helped me.
Thank goodness you are staying strong! The Adversary is pulling out all the stops, especially since his time is coming to an end soon. He's "hastening his work", too.
Stay strong Brother!
Take heart THE Alpha male will return, and he will not be in a good mood when he does. I hear tell that he will be wearing blood red and there will be many dying. I’m sure the event will set a record of breaking paradigms, exploding myths and setting the record straight.
It’s awesome that you’re staying strong despite all of that. Generally men aren’t interested in organized religion.
May God bless you, Brother! I love you for your candor.
I was just talking to a friend yesterday and he was telling me for the first time his church did a physical activity for Men and they turned out. Their argument was they just dont do anything of interest to Men anymore. My church does a serve day once a year and it is very poorly coordinated.
Thanks for voicing what a lot of us are thinking. We really do need to man up and fulfill our role as husbands, fathers, and men. We need to have our fine women understand what a man is and give us the encouragement to maintain that role.
You can't lead women who refuse to follow. Baby boomer women rebelled against God and men and boomer men surrendered to feminism. Our society has paid an unfathomable price for it.
I think another problem (which seems to be overlooked by most people) is how the church now speaks to Jesus -- when praying, and at the end of singing worship, for example -- almost as if He is their lover! In a bedroom voice. It's embarassing. As a woman I feel uncomfortable with this, but how much harder must it be for the men?
It's been my experience with local church leaders that men are always in the wrong when it comes to marital relationships.
When I went to talk to my Bishop about problems I'm having with my wife he just didn't believe me. If she would have told him the same things,I think my Temple recommend would be in ? So I guess the only thing I could do is divorce her. The sad part about this is over the past 15 years is she will not talk about OUR situation. I feel like Abraham in that I need to obtain a new residence in order to maintain my righteousness.
I had the opposite problem. My husband was told to take away my car, I wasn't allowed to go anywhere without my husband's permission. I wasn't allowed to even get the mail out of the mailbox. The postman would co.e to my door and ask me to empty the mailbox, I told him I was no longer allowed to touch the mail. This was the advice given to my husband, when we were having problems by the member of the stake presidency in Salt Lake city utah. My husband was told that if didn't do all my husband said, that he should divorce me.
@@susieclose9464 wow that is hard to believe. Forcing someone to do something is never the LORDS WAY. That's the problem in the church today. To many leaders doing things their way. But when those types of things happen it doesn't mean the Church isn't true. All it means is that person is abusing his Priesthood authority and if it persists that man will lose his PH power. The only thing we can do is to be true and faithful to the covenants we made to the best of our ability.
Unfortunately-men still are expected to shoulder huge amounts of responsibility as always, but the benefit of being masculine, of being the hero of the family is being taken away as women venture into different roles. If mom is also working, it takes away from Dad being the hero that provides. If Mom is trying to preside over the family and not defer to her husband, it takes away from Dad being the strong guy who is in charge, as well as the competent leader. More and more the lines are being blurred and the straight line is not being emphasized. In an attempt to help women feel they are wanted and loved in the church, unfortunately men are feeling like they have gotten the shaft. I sometimes feel pandered to-when they sisters and brothers over the pulpit rather than brothers and sisters-which used to be natural. The priesthood lines are being blurred and many don't understand the difference between actually holding priesthood keys and just everyday personal revelation. Men don't understand how to preside, protect and provide under these modern circumstances. And it is confusing to women as well-we're told we can have it all and many of today's girls are trying just that. My son has been at BYU dating for 2 years solid and has yet to find a girl who wants a traditional marriage (meaning--most don't want to stay home with their kids, have kids at all, and are intent on putting careers and mission ahead of marriage and family).
Also lots of men are being feminized, they want the strong, independent woman who probably won't be there as a mother. I'm feminine strong, not masculine. I have an independent spirit, but as much as I'm capable of leading, I Want a man that can guide the family ship with me as a helpmeet he counsels with, following God of course, not put me directly in charge.
My hope is that there will be a cultural swing soon where men are starting to have a religious reawakening.
Hope is not a strategy.
All it takes is one to speak up. I’m sure there’s tons in church feeling this way (as evident by all these UA-cam comments). Maybe we can start challenging some of the feminist issues when we hear them (1 at a time) and people will probably agree with us
A spiritual awakening with Christ at the center. Religion is a trap
We already have, it's just not the kind of religious awakening you are hoping for. It is much more brutal and bloodier than you were expecting.
Left the church. Sure, the secular culture of feminism but in the end....it was my fellow men who were: married, fathers and pretty much didn't need me around. Men who deemed themselves leaders, seemed to have all the spiritual gifts, and frankly didn't want men unless they arrived with a wife and children.
Men in many wards have abdicated responsibility to the RS. The lack of planning, organization, and purpose coming out of the Elder’s quorum is distressing
Why would you if you are being told all the time that the women do it anyway?
@@4ydnarx because hitting the easy button does not raise men
@@davidtalbot434 Attacking them for things they are not responsible for does not raise men either
Another outstanding podcast Greg, thanks. I found this to be timely, topical and a badly needed discourse sorely needed within the Church at every level, Ward, Stake, Regional, Area & General. I would suggest that specific strategies get formulated via committees or task forces set up where demographics are among their top priorities (in so far as action items, goals, objectives, mission statements, purposes, desired outcomes, targeted changes, transformative initiatives and the like are concerned, etc.) and implementations decided occur sooner than later to help turn the downward spirals around to more productive & encouraging trends. The work needs to be actionable, specific, coherent, concrete, measurable, defined, delegated, with follow through (stewardship & accountability), appropriate & timely report backs, a stick-to-it’iveness that’s unrelenting until the needed work (or necessary) progress is realized & achieved, and a program is in place to protect that progress to ensure that success continues on a consistent, uninterrupted basis. All this must be tied to very practical & tangible equivalents that very smart & talented people are all on board with/agreed upon (fully supporting).
A master coordinator of some sort could be called to overseer this, act as a governor, a protector of this noble cause to ensure it’s success. One with the passion, drive, credentials, skills, availability, clout, reputation, savvy, political acumen, maturity, wisdom, patience, kindness, love, sympathy/empathy (charity), faith & vision, an ear & sensitivity towards revelation, personal integrity, sufficient intellectual horsepower, (can think fast on his feet), well spoken and excellent written communication skills. A leader such as this appointed through proper leadership channels, to get this moving in a concerted, cohesive & coherent fashion, (the political will/capital to get it done in the first place, not just fodder for a popular podcast),
Maybe even an initial exploratory steering committee to formulate viability, planing, scope, size, resources, budget, logistics, etc. A project plan. (There are all kinds of project management software tools out there, for example). One could be employed as a catalyst for a initiative such as this.
I see your envisioned need seriously as something that ought to take off into the realm of a real project aimed at finding, developing and implementing real world, timely solutions that are strategic, practical, effective, workable, results centric and successful.
I think one reason for the “lack of men” is that a good number of men have either been raised by fathers or inculcated by culture that taught them the way to be a man is to dominate. I loved your comment that masculine fulfillment comes through family and through putting your arms around others to strengthen them and help them grow. I think too few men have that view of masculinity.
There’s been a lot of pushback to this other type of view of manhood and masculinity -that a man should be respected, which to them means the “do as I say” mentality. That they are to be feared, that kids are to be seen not heard, that if a woman truly respected her husband as the one who presides in the family, that men she should just follow along with him and do as he says.
I think too few men truly understand what preside really means , or what true masculinity is, again by perhaps how their fathers raised them or movies or culture… it gets pushed back against and shut down because it is really more of Lucifer‘s plan.
I think many of these men are really good men, who just really are trying and thinking they’re doing their best. But because there’s push back against it, they get deflated and perhaps stop trying, not realizing that it’s just their beliefs or viewpoints or methods that are incorrect. Men need mentoring, they need to be taught HOW to be a man in the gospel.
Men are so needed! Men need to be taught a clear understanding of what it means to preside. And what true strengths really is. We need their courage. We need their power. We need their strength and goodness! I think so many are trying but just really don’t know how to do it right.
I think the messaging of the church to men about being men is either non-existent or a feminist definition of what a man is. The priesthood is not defined as a position of leadership or presiding anymore. It’s actually taught as a necessary reform school for beings that need it for salvation. Women don’t need the priesthood because they are such pure creatures that they just don’t need it. Eve knew what she was doing when she partook of the forbidden fruit, Adam being the ignorant dolt that all men are had to be reminded that if he didn’t take a bite like she did he would be left alone and actually thwart Gods plan.
@@leilettesartoga7276 I will await you response but please also consider you definition of manhood seems to be based on some stereotypes developed by a feminist culture. With feminist it’s either the Teddy Bear or the tyrant. Please don’t fall for that false logic.
@@leilettesartoga7276 Thanks for considering my words. How did I twist the definition of leadership? Priesthood leadership? If the priesthood has any authority it must have the final say in matters, no? Or are all things just done by consensus? Does a leader just facilitate a voting process? If the husband and wife disagree on some point what happens? Nothing? (I know what what really happens). What is the model used in heaven? What was the structure put in place in those series of covenants after the 1st parents partook of the forbidden fruit? Did God the father covenant directly with Eve? Or did he hold Adam accountable- as a leader.
@@leilettesartoga7276 Interesting and good comments. It appears a woman’s duties include sitting in judgement of her husband and taking control when he falters? Or when her righteousness exceeds his? Who determines that? Do you suppose Noah’s wife nagged him to stop drinking? I think a good leader is a good follower. I think Christ was the best example of a follower of God (the father) and that is what makes him the best example of a leader. Did HE nag Mary Magdalene into repentance? I don’t think Noah nagged anyone to help him build the Arc. Christ didn’t chide anyone to follow him. A woman can be a great leader by being a great follower, especially when her companion appears to slip or falter but never by taking over. It’s just not her role to take over no matter how temporary. That will only build resentment. Great subordinates or followers work with their leader thru trust and confidence only in this way is a subordinate’s advice taken internalized which may result in change of heart or mind especially relating to decisions.
I enjoy the nature of our exchanges it is enlightening.
So if men raised the sons to be feminists they would go to your feminist churches
I would love to see an episode on protecting the sacred role of motherhood and homemaking in a world that promotes both parents working and reversal of roles.
I have struggled with this topic for years. I think this started 15-20 years ago and has ramped up in the last 5 years.I don't know about anyone else's Elder's Quorum lessons/discussions but we RARELY discuss anything related to Priesthood responsibilities, Priesthood leadership, Priesthood power, being a good husband/father in the home, let alone how to perform Priesthood blessings and ordinances. The focus in the last few years has been on women and the Priesthood with very little instruction and discussion for the men.
Part of this stems from the direction the Church has taken with the curriculum. When I was a young Elder, we had the old Priesthood manuals with powerful discussions in these areas. Gradually it has changed until what we have now - every two weeks discussion on General Conference talks (the latest talk on Adversity, etc). These are the same lessons/discussions the Sisters have. Same curriculum across the board. How are men of the Church supposed to learn, grow, stretch in their roles has husbands and father, and feel important and needed if there is nothing drawing them in?
I am now worried about the young men. During the "off" weeks where they meet together as a quorum, they have the same lessons as the young women. I've looked at all the lessons since the changes, through to next year's Doctrinal Topics lessons. There are only TWO lessons on the Priesthood - out of 4 year's worth. I have one son who struggled on his mission, and another son who wants nothing to do with a mission.
What are we doing to our men and young men?
And to add to what you are saying the General conference talks we do review in Priesthood are talks given by women. I don’t think the General Authorities watch much TV or pat attention to advertising where the white male is always the butt of every joke, heralded as the ignorant being in dire need of correcting.
@@yeboscrebo4451 I wonder sometimes if our church leadership is reacting to social events based on their recollection of how things were when they were dads trying to raise kids. I don’t think any of them watch any TV or social media platforms for news or entertainment. They have warned us not to and I get that. But if they were seeing how white men are the joke of every advertisement (if the are even pictured), maybe they could see magnitude of the societal shift that has taken place in the past few years. I’m not trying to blame them or be critical of their actions or decisions I just saying they are so busy with other more important things and are leaving this social stuff up to us. I can see where the Prophet dutifully when on got the COVID vaccine because in his day do we’re respected and honorable I just wonder if they the just how far the level of corruption has spread to all these institutions.
Just bring back the Priesthood session....in April and October. Just go back to how it used to be. They need to be united as one....not diluted. Maybe we should skip the dubious RS evening meetings and have the E.Q to meet and talk shop. Where do the men go to socialize and express brotherhood? Where do you invite men to gather outside of church? BYU Women's conference? Where is the BYU Men's conference?
As a sister who is married to an active man. I get a better husband after he attends the Priesthood session....We replaced Boy Scouts with "queer" women being introduced by the General RS presidency in Women's conference. (BYU 2021) WHAT?????
As I listen to your lastest podcast I could not help but have two verses of scripture come to mind which I believe are being fulfilled today.
1.) Jeremiah 50:37
2.) Luke 23:29
Jordan B Petersen has addressed this topic very well. I encourage boys and men to read his books and listen to his podcasts.
Jordan Peterson has been a huge help to myself and millions of others. He is willing to be controversial for the sake of truth. Men won’t respect a man who isn’t bold. Unfortunately, it seems that becoming overly risk averse and concerns with liability prevent that within church. I’ve struggled for a couple of years now with having to find engaging material outside of church. The phrase I frequently hear is, Heavenly Father only has imperfect people to work with. While true it feels more like a cop out usually.
IMO, JBP is an arrow God saved in his quiver for a day such as we live in now.
He actually put out a video called "Message to the Christian Churches" where he echoes some of these ideas, but from a different angle.
@@98layton just watched it, crazy timing, but great video
@@rdaneskjold3939 I agree.
I appreciate this so much! I have 2 sons who have left the church and I believe it’s because they are part of this lazy generation. They don’t want a calling. They don’t want to do anything that isn’t fun. It breaks my heart! How will this church survive with not enough men to carry on the priesthood into the future? We women can do a lot, but we don’t want to do it all! Thanks so much for your perspective!
Then we need to stop attacking men
"Lazy generation"
You are part of the problem.
I love this! Make Mormons Masculine Again! 🦾
I love the boxing story. Facing fears makes us stronger and more resilient.
Breaking through those fears is what builds confidence! NO, I don’t mean leveling up on the latest video game.
I haven’t gone in 5 years and glad to see nothing has still changed. I pick up overtime or exercise or hike or do something else meaningful. I have no greater purpose in life. Im just living for the now
Greater purpose is so rewarding!
I'm almost 70 and have given up on finding a strong male member for a forever companion. I have a complicated background and am a convert who had a Dad who wouldn't stand up against a second wife who treated him, me, and her own children like crap. She made every rule of our house and it was a very difunctional home. I'm trying as I wait to be the kind of woman that such a husband would want.
There's no need to sit in a church in the 21st century. I am edified daily by great sermons and teaching put online.
We all need people and interaction.
Yes, I can tell you that that boy who went to bat and made contact will remember that! I'm 57 and there are certain "hits" that I remember from when I was 11. As a very masculine man I was nearly in tears hearing this story. It's real, and boys need a little of that and then the next time it's less fear and more of, "I can do this!" Also... As a man who has a very attractive, fit, accomplished, approachable, likeable, daughter over 30 in the middle of the Salt Lake valley who has never married, I feel the pain of not enough men in the church. She's also a diehard sports fan. Guys, what's the matter with you?
Your daughter probably isn’t interested in the guys who are interested in her
My patriarchal blessing said I would marry a choice priesthood holder. Blew it with my 1st marriage, but got it right with #2. Married him at 43 after my first husband of 20 years left me and the Church. He has a rock-solid testimony, is an incredible husband and father and I'm so grateful the Lord sent him to me. I love the men of the Church.
This is something IMHO every Bishop and Elders Quorum President should see.
I can tell you from my own experience that I tried to teach my kids and bring them up in the gospel. My husband on the other hand didn't make faith, family, and the gospel a priority. It is reflected in our children. I wonder sometimes if I did the right thing by staying with him. Children need dads that are involved and worthy priesthood holders. My dad died when I was 7 and my mom raised me. I had eight siblings that ranged from 17 years to 10 weeks. She did an amazing job. Most of us are still in the church. My little brother and sister have both become inactive. The Proclamation on the Family is a good place to look. My husband didn't focus on his family. I also don't see the brethren being accountable for ministering to the families that they are assigned. There is so much service the men can do. My husband wouldn't get involved at home. Work was always his excuse. He never once took our boys to the priesthood session of General Conference. He didn't always attend church. My husband wouldn't even do activities with our sons. I would talk about neglect and abuse, but it won't change where we are now.
Hummm. Strange comment. What did you expect would happen if you did leave your husband? That your kids would be better off somehow? That rarely works out that way. What does ministering assignments have to do with the topic of either the video or the first topic you brought up? Without context, it just comes off as angry and judgmental.
After hearing something like this I wonder what the story would be from the husband's perspective.
Boy. This is a problem for sure. Men have been emasculated generally in our culture… and also in the church. I know the brethren have also been aware of this growing problem, particularly with missionary age men. It is very strange to see many finding “virtue” in being soft, and feminine. Sometimes I can barely listen to the 18-30 year old LDS men speak. Something is off.
I had a very powerful dream/vision about a year ago where I saw Christ’s face from a distance. I stretched to see him as I was passing by. I was able to view him for a moment. As I caught a glimpse… I was STRUCK by the masculinity of his features. That was what stood out more than anything. And the other thing that was being emphasized in the dream was his total and complete authority over all things. I’ll never forget it.
He is my hero.
They got beaten down by modern women with the help of the court system.
Wow. I've definitely noticed this in my YSA ward, but didn't realize it was happening on a much larger scale. The ward I'm in currently has been on the smaller side ever since I moved in a few years ago, but we used to get around 30 guys in Elders quorum most Sundays. Now, we are lucky to get 15. We've been hemorrhaging male members, meanwhile just like you said the Relief Society is doing just fine.
I'm in the Elders Quorum presidency as first counselor, and right now it's just me and the president. We don't have a second counselor or secretary because the guys that are active already have a calling, and are needed. We also only have 2 instructors called when we used to have 4. I've been having to cover quite a few lessons. It's really sad honestly. But like I saw other commenters talk about, and like you talked about, it seems the culture in the church right now favors women. When we're in Sunday school, there's frequently more liberal "comfortable" comments. Whereas during elders quorum there's frequently more frank/real conversations and more conservative things talked about.
One of the Sunday school teachers who has always bothered me in my ward has made the comment multiple times when she teaches that she will not allow missionary stories because it's making yourself out to be the "hero". What kind of message does that send? I was never able to serve a mission because of worthiness problems and mental health, but I greatly admire those who did serve and love hearing their stories. I can't help but think that it must be discouraging for the men in my ward to hear her say that at the start of every lesson she teaches. I've also already shared other Sunday school stories from my ward here before... It's really sad, but I guess from that perspective I can understand why there's a decline in single men attending.
I feel your pain, brother. And know where you’re coming from.
Has anyone ever confronted the woman and asked what’s wrong with a hero?
You should let your Sunday school teacher know that what they say at the beginning of the lesson may not be such a good idea and explain why. If that doesn't work you could reach out to the bishop and explain what's happening, why it's inappropriate and see what he can do
I feel your pain! I am tired beyond belief of the tearing down of men and healthy and strong masculine leadership.We are destroying our men and boys, and it makes me sick. Men, WE NEED YOU TO BE MEN! WE NEED YOUR STRENGTH AND UNIQUE INSIGHTS INTO LIFE AND THE WORLD WE LIVE IN!
@@scottbowden4931 not really. Unfortunately I have to admit I haven't either. I have "confronted" her during class before on things like the Family Proclamation when she started saying things that were just false doctrine. But unfortunately I haven't taken a stand on that front. But it's also been a while since she taught.
@@cameronreed1411 that's a good point and a good idea. If she teaches again and makes that same comment/stipulation, I'll try to find a way to talk with her about it. I just know that her and I wouldn't really get along well because we have drastically different world views. But yes I'll definitely consider talking with her about it if it happens again. Thank you for the suggestion!
So many bull's eyes. I joined the church at a fairly late age (49) with a strong background in the military and military history. Not once did I feel I didn't fit, or that I was somehow "Un-Mormon," until the last few years. I slap my young men on the back, or punch them on the shoulder, or insist they give me a strong, manyly handshake (How I LOATHE this fist-bumping!) and I have actually been scolded, not by their moms, but by the Bishipric and EQ leaders. One night, in Mutual, the girls were repeating their vows and the boys were talking and carrying on like they were at a ball game. I didn't bellow it, but said loudly enough to be heard over the racket, "Young men, shut up!" A member of the Bishopric whirled and jumped right down my throat, saying, "Language! Language!" Our Boy Scouts weren't allowed to carry knives or hatchets, or cook over an open fire, for Pete's sake! Some of my Seminary girls are more manly than that! (And they are most emphatically NOT butch, or even tomoboys!)
Being Brigham and Porter are no longer culturally allowable. So many men lose their ability to express their devotion in the masculine way they desire. Forcing the men to conform to the absolute nonsense of "Simon Dewey" style devotion is destructive to our emotions. It forces out so many of us that cannot conform to that. At church, I feel like if we can't present it in primary with all those adorable "live laugh love" relief society typeface styles then it can't be presented. It makes men falsely equate that mushy soft passive tear filled giggles with the gospel and turns us off almost completely unless we can realize the false correlation.
I loved being in scouting for 6 years! It was the greatest! Building things, learning CPR, visiting the sewer department, going on hikes! Boys need that! I love the talk Pres. Nelson gave on young men being in the big army of Israel. Heroes is what we need! If we treat all men like heroes that is who they will be!
The story about the boy who hit the ball made me cry! Amen, amen, and amen! I have a strong husband and I live in a community of strong men, but unfortunately we too are starting to feel the influence of the world. We have an annual ward campout where these men (women and children) cut fire wood for the widows and other community members that don’t have the ability or resources. Firewood is how many people keep warm during the winter. It is one of my favorite activities of the year for 2 different reasons. I love to watch men being men and doing manly things. Second, I love to watch these men teach their children and grandchildren how to work hard. I love watching kids learn how to use a chainsaw and ax. I love watching the planning and strategy that goes into taking down 3 trees at once. I love watching these men with a chainsaw and ax hanging off their belts climb 30 feet in the air and take a tree down starting at the top. I love watching the wives and the kids as they do what they can do, but you can see the pride they have for their husbands and fathers.
We need more of this. As a woman, I’m grateful that you felt boxing was an appropriate activity. It is! I hate that Disney along with other production companies have portrayed dad’s and useful idiots. We do need a church that protects masculinity. As an older woman I understand that women and children suffer when they don’t have a righteous masculine man in their lives. Thank you for this. We all need to help good boys become righteous masculine men.
It’s great that you’re addressing this! There is nothing toxic about masculinity! It’s shamed out of so many could be/should be men!
There are several ideas that come to mind. - your question is valid; “what message does the church have for men in the church?” Sadly, I can’t think of one.
I feel we could certainly use a fraternal Order for men, if not Freemasonry, something comparable to it. It certainly served the men of Joseph and Brighams days; it blessed and strengthened the men of the church, and hence, the whole church.
Feminism is so pervasive, not only in the world but also in the church. This culture has been teaching us that masculinity is "toxic" and we are encouraged to raise our sons to be and act more like women emotionally; their lack of our kind of sensitivity is counted against them. Many men in positions of leadership in the world tip-toe around women because of fear of being accused of being abusive. Schools don't allow boys to do or play in a masculine way. My grandson was disciplined at his school for biting a piece of cheese into the shape of a gun. It's getting ridiculous. Also, boy don't tend to be as good as girls are in socializing when stressful things at home are going on, such as divorce. There's a lot of this in the church too, which means the loss of (usually) father as a regular part of a boy's raising. Boys need heroes and they need them in the church. But they need them even more at home in the form of masculine father's, grandfathers, uncles and other great role models and examples. We need stronger families and marriages.