For my layers while sleeping, I wore really lightweight polyester base layers and then a mid-weight fleece sweater and mid-weight fleece pants. My feet get pretty warm, so I only had on thin merino wool socks. I wore the down hood as well.
Thanks 😊, it took me sometime to realize that it was the sleeping mat/ pad that was the reason my sleeping bag wasn't warm enough. Also if wearing clothing with a light bag I found down or a fleece/ air permiable layer much more comfortable than a conventional synthetic fill top.
I JUST TRIED OUT MY FIRST QUILT EVER, LAST NIGHT. In our backyard lol We got the double. The EE Accomplice. We chose the 20 degree (F), and last night it got down to 25-27, so it was a good test. We were warm.
So romantic! what pad are you using it with? How do the pad straps work with a double quilt? I have so many questions! You definitely need to do a review of this quilt! Maybe, one day, I'll have an accomplice.
@@JustinOutdoors I am using my Xtherm even though I don't love it. But I think I'm going to keep it and deal with it for some years longer. I love the weight and the warmth. I did test it out with a pillow so it's kind of working better for me. And the straps are basically the same except there are two slots for two sleeping pads! I filmed a video of us sleeping in the backyard with it and the results hahaha Maybe I'll do a review after the JMT
I just bought the Thermarest vela double quilt for me and my girlfriend. I already had a massdrop klymit double ultralight pad (which is briliant). How did the double quilt perform for you?
@@bandofbros8112 We are liking it so far. I still want to test it more before I can say that I love it for certain. But we've used it on a handful of trips. It's nice because we can each choose to clip our sides or not, so it helps us have our own personal temp regulation system. Which was one of my biggest concerns. I'm a bit worried about what will happen if we bring it and the night is warmer. I tend to THROW sheets off me when I'm hot. So we will see, haha!
I demand royalties for my performance in this video. Was a wicked time getting out again, can't wait for the next one! Quality stuff as always man! That EE quilt stacking system is pretty wicked!
a hot water bottle in a sleeping bag or quilt is a godsend haha! even though temps don't drop nearly as much as they would in Canada (Netherlands) i've had a fair share of suprisingly cold spring nights in the Belgian Ardennes that had me cosy up with my water bottle :) Love quilts btw, as a side sleeper they feel much more like a real blanket instead of ending up tangled up in the mummy bag a few hours later
Gotta have the warm bottle! And you're totally right. We don't sleep cocooned up in a sleeping bag at home, why do so on the trail when we don't have to!
Any tips for cheap-ish bottles that can be used (and still be trusted to drink from)? I guess I'm a bit cheap-ish so for me that be less than the Nalgene bottles for $14-24 (just checked the first store I thought ofwithout any protection for the sleeping bag.
Another excellent review! I never thought about the straps, guess I just put up with everything sliding off. Again thanks for helping me make my next trip more comfortable! As always, I look forward to your next review! Thanks again Rick from Virginia
I have slept outside in -20 temps and been warm. I’m a tent user. I have a wool blanket I put on the bottom of the tent to help insulate and makes moving around inside nicer (no freezing floor), then I use a thermarest closed cell, I have a -20 sleeping bag and -10 quilt. Also use a klymet insulated pad (r4.4) that I put inside the -20 sleeping bag. It may seem like over kill, but I’m a side sleeper and toss and turn a lot so all these layers help with drafts and they aren’t that heavy. Comfy in whatever works for you is the most important. Algonquin PP gets cold.
I found your channel this week after going down a gear video rabbit hole! I've been looking for a good Canadian outdoor youtuber for awhile now and have to say that your videos are awesome! Can't wait for the day when we are all allowed out of our houses again.
Thanks Laura! There are a few of us out there, but definitely not as many as in the states. My favourites are Jim Baird, Matty Outdoors, Backcountry Angling Ontario, Backcountry Forward, and Pere Extreme. I can't wait until things get back to a semblance of normal as well. :(
I don't have a quilt yet...but I want one. I love using different systems. Gotta get in the quilt game That Thermarest pad is sweet That's an amazing spot to spend the night.
@@JustinOutdoors I'm still using a very old Thermarest. Probably not suitable for winter camping , but I have been doing it anyway, for yearsLOL I'm sure I would be blown away by the performance of the Xtherm.
I just ordered the Xthern Reg wide & Vasper 20. I was thinking to order a synthetic sleeping bag to go over it to protect from moisture. Have you tired that also???? Is there a light weight synthetic quilt or sleeping bag you recommend.
Another great video! Curious what layers you wore in the setup besides the down hat? Clothes always seem to be the most difficult part. Thanks and keep the videos coming!
Good point! I'll add that info into the video description. I wore really lightweight polyester base layers and then a mid-weight fleece sweater and mid-weight fleece pants. My feet get pretty warm, so I only had on this merino wool socks.
@@JustinOutdoors Thank you, Justin. Looking for information on best practices for stashing your clothes items you wish to not have frozen in the morning ...when employing top-quilt. May seem like a stupid question, but hoping to gain some tips/insights form those more experienced. Thanks (if you (or Jeremy) ever read this!)
Wow,that view * So glad you have found a happy solution to being toasty warm. What I am taking from your post , is that it is kind of like the principle of building a house.Getting the foundation right so important. :-) Thank you as always for sharing your found knowledge & understanding of these things *
The Enigma 20F is 650g and the revelation 50F synthetic is 350g. So combined - 1kg/2.2lbs. For comparison, a lot of 0F sleeping bags weigh 3lbs or more.
@@fedegoeswoods3142 3 lbs? Ha ha. My Norwegian military winter bag weigh ~3,5 kg or little over 7 lb. xD It's huge and weigh a ton. On the flip side, it's 50$. I can lay around a fire without worry of sparks. It has a hard shell, so no concern for snow or any other shelter needed. Best of all, I can make a bed out of pine instead of buying a 200$ pad. One object without any fiddling parts that can go wrong. Perfect for me, but not as fancy as Justin's system.
@@studious2414 Hey. This is me rambling a bit. olavteigen.mamutweb.com/Shop/Product/Sovepose-Bestselgeren-M85-Forsvarets-Ubrukt/7971882 post@olav-teigen.no Try to google translate his site. I don't know if Olav sends it internationally, but if sending him an email won't give results, then I'll help you out. The site state 70$ now, but for some reason he charged me 50 $ for it in person. Odd, but 20$ won't overthrow your budget. I've used it in -15 to -20 C. I know others have used it in -20, and some even into the -30 degrees C. No one I've talked to have had any cold issues with it. An alternative genius thing the Norwegian armed forces use was the Jerven Fjellduken. It's one item that can act as a substitute for pretty much everything from rainproof poncho, wind proof poncho, warm layer, hammock, backpack, 2x dry bags, sleeping bag, bivy bag, emergency shelter, tarp, drop cloth, cocoon tent. It got Primaloft and excellent camo for hunters, stealth campers and armed forces alike. There's a 10 year warranty of confidence in the product that reeks of quality. I'm sure you can build a boat using it. No joke. Here's what one of the guys in green said about it the other day: "this is a quality piece of kit. I've had the Jerven Extreme since my time in a recon unit. It's probably my most prized possession. I've used it from +25 centigrade to -72 centigrade effective (-30 with crazy windchill) on maneuvres and in operations abroad, and it's been great all along. Very much a recommended purchase." He used a private Fjellduk since 98' and it's still kicking ass to this day.
At this point I'm seeing less benefits of using quilts at these temps. Hoods, straps, and snaps all to fix what a mummy bag already does well. I see many people ditching their bags in favour of quilts. For 3 seasons I get it, but for winter or really cold nights it seems like a big hassle. I have the MEC Centaurus -9 bag and in combination of my super thin +5 summer down bag I got this system down to -28c a few weeks ago in only a base layer. The thermos effect (being well sealed) of a well designed bag is one of its biggest benefits. My ground pad was a Dollarama reflectix car sun shade, non insulated air pad, and then a cheap mountain warehouse 8mm foam pad. Quilts are all the rage now and I'm still not sure if it's because they are that much better or if it's just a trend. In your opinion, considering you have these two quilts and an equivalently good mummy bag, why would you opt to use the quilt in a case like this (other than to make this video of course)?
I'm going to be doing a video on the benefits of using a quilt next week, but all of those apply even when winter camping. Many active sleepers find quilts much more comfortable because you're more free to move around and sleep in different positions and quilts weigh significantly less. For many, the comfort and weight savings outweigh the extra 20-30 seconds needed to set a quilt system up. You also usually get more warmth per $ spent with a quilt (weight being similar). Another reason, for me, would be the temperature versatility of a quilt. I find it much easier to adjust my warmth with a quilt than a bag. I can stick a leg and arm out from under a quilt, undo a strap to let some draft in, or loosen the straps. With a bag, I find the ability to finely tweak warmth to be a bit ore difficult. You can either zip or unzip a bag. I still think bags are great and the temps I used the quilts on for this trip are definitely around where I would normally use a bag just to avoid the things you mentioned (finickiness especially). But I have only met a couple of people out of many who have tried quilts and bags and still prefer a bag over a quilt for anything warmer than -10C.
Justin Outdoors Thanks for the explanation. All valid points. I’d love to try a quit but it’s hard to justify replacing a system that already own and works for me.
@@megajig Ya, exactly! Unless you need something for different conditions, are going to replace your sleep insulation anyways, or are actively trying to reduce weight it's hard to justify the cost. For me, I did find the comfort difference very noticeable though.
This encouraged me! It's time to save those pennies and make the purchase! What tent were your rocking? Just out of curiosity. Also, do you know of any other manufacturers that have a layering system? Cus I think you may have won me with that! You KNOW I love my layering systems!
Rocking the Lanshan 1 Pro that trip. It definitely won't be my go-to winter tent though! You could layer anything really, but you would need to rig up some sort of attachment system. UGQ's wafer clips may be compatible with EE's, I'm not 100% sure. So you might be able to use the EE subzero straps with UGQ quilts. Having a synthetic topper has been key. I slept with the synthetic quilt folded back to my waist one wintery night and the upper part of my down quilt was quite wet from the moisture in my breath. No such issues when I had the synthetic quilt layered up.
Justin Outdoors I was curious, cus I’d guess that that’s a bit more of a drafty tent. Good to know that you stayed warm in that! And I totally get the condensation. Happens with my system all the time. That synthetic is a must.
So basically turn your quilt into a sleeping bag...My issue with all these quilts, bags, pillows, and pads is that it feels like playing Jenga with blocks covered in oil. Everything is constantly sliding all over the place. I might carry some light weight sheets on my next trip to cover the pad and bag...
From enlighten equipment website When layering quilts, place the lighter quilt on the bottom and the heavier quilt on top for extra warmth. Make sure the compartments that hold the insulation line up properly to avoid cold spots. Using a quilt with synthetic materials on the outer layer can help manage moisture and condensation.
Do you like the EE Sub-Zero Strap better than the EE Quilt Layering Adapter? (It seems to me the Adapter would be more convenient since you only have to release one buckle rather than two in order to get out. Just curious if you’ve tried both options. Thanks for all the great info! About to place my order with EE!
Hey Justin, from your experience do you have a rough guide as to what increase in warmth you can get to by layering quilts (or layering a sleeping bag with a quilt on top)? I'm wanting to extend the range of a bag for a single trip rather than buying an entirely new one, but not sure what sort of boost I can get from a quilt on top. Like, roughly, what would that Revelation 50 quilt add to my -10C comfort/-17C limit bag? (FYI Im also on a S2S extreme mat with a closed cell underneath - combined r-val of 8.2)
Justin, would you recommend the down pants made by the same company that made the down hood you had in this video? A down pant recommendation would be nice if you have tried more than a few pairs. I haven't tried any as of yet. thanks
I would have the synthetic quilt under the down quilt because it manages moisture better and it takes more weight to compress, but ass always i love your content, keep it up!
Thanks! Just as a heads up for how moisture movements works in sleep systems, the mositure/water that leaves you body is in a gaseous state and stays that way as it moves away from your body, through the sleep system, and out into the atmosphere. If the atmospheric air is cold, the moisture will condense into liquid as it moves away from your body. Normally, this condensing occurs in the outer parts of your sleep system. Like you said, synthetic insulation manages moisture better, so you want to moisture condensing within that synthetic layer. Since the condensing doesn't occur until the moisture is right at the edge of your sleep system, that is where you want your synthetic quilt. You can see this condensing in action when you get frost or frozen water on the outside of your quilt or sleeping bag.
@@sebastianknudsen3461 hey Sebastien. Based on my understanding of thermodynamics, I'm going to have to disagree with you. For winter camping, if the dew point was within your base layers, you'd freeze to death. If you have articles or literature supporting your point, I'd be happy to take a look and be proven wrong!
Great video thanks. I'm getting an EE Enigma 20, but am playing to do some mountaineering. Do you think a sleeping bag liner inside the quilt could also provide the same benefits?
@@JustinOutdoors I've never heard of that I'm thinking of just any sleeping bag liner that will increase the temperature rating of normal sleeping bags.
how hard is that top surface of the sleeping pad? I need something hard enough like wood. The reason being is I made the switch from mattress to floor sleeping and it has helped my back a lot.
Hmm, isn't your sleeping pad supposed to have an r-value of 6.9? Also, from what I've heard the testing's been done on a pad with an r-value of 4.8 (though, I think I've read as low as 4.0, but I guess that depends on manufacturer and which standards they adhere to). On a somewhat related note, I've had some problems finding a good r-value to temp translation (I think I found one a month ago or so but couldn't find it again), do you know what E.G. r-value: 1.2, 3.5, 4, 4.2 or 6.9 would be in either c or F because (unless I misremember) I've seen the ranges 2-4 and 3-5 called 3-season. And as three season is rather vague and if anything lower than (somewhere between, or maybe, over, depending on manufacturer) 4.0-4.8 is subpar for the sleeping bag/quilt in question - I'm almost ready to just throw my hands in the air and go for a >5, which would be rather silly if e.g. 3.5 is good for -12c (~10F). 3:10 Wouldn't it be better to have the synthetics as the inside bag(bottom layer)? As that'd keep the sweat from reaching the down and not compress the down?
Ya, the Xtherm has an r-value of 6.9. The sleeping bag ISO standard for testing uses a pad with an r-value of 4.8. It's a standard, so it's always consistent. Air temperature doesn't always correlate well with have effective an r-value will be at keeping you warm. If the air temp is freezing, you'll likely need a much higher r-value in the spring when the ground might still be frozen or very cold compared to the end of summer when the ground is nice and warm and holds on to a lot of the heat from during the day. With the exact same air temperatures, I usually find myself needing a much warmer sleeping pad in the spring. Putting the synthetic quilt on the outside addresses the dew point phenomenon. Water condenses as it gets colder, so water vapor will turn to liquid closer to the outside of your sleep insulation, which is why you want the material that deals better with moisture on the outside.
How much extra warmth does one get with a sewn foot box vs a zipper draw cord type? I’m about to get a katabatic flex 15 or 22 or maybe the equivalent quilt with a sewn foot box. Love to hear your thoughts.
The benefits to warmth are small. Especially if you do things like stick a sock into the zipper draw opening. Sewn footboxes are usually lighter as well though. The majority of people I know with zippered footboxes never unzip them and end up just having that as a wasted feature. They think it's a nice versatility piece when buying but, after use, realize they probably should have just gone with the sewn. Happy to answer any more questions!
Justin Outdoors ah, that’s what I thought too but don’t have the experience. For me the biggest advantage of the zippered toe box is it’s $80 less. Thanks for the sound advice. 👍
@@barondavis5692 Ah, that's a big cost difference. For most other manufacturers I've looked at, the difference is usually a few dollars for sewn vs zipper footbox.
What if you use 2 sleeping pads? One is an inflatable R-Value 1.3, the other self-inflating R-Value 6.5. Which one should I sleep on? Which one should be on the bottom?
@@bettersteps I haven't found a difference either way. I find everything stays in place a bit better when the foam is under the air pad, so that's what I do
oops, my question posted earlier isn't phrased well. Is it better to have the quilt tucked under the pad with the straps or under the body? I've seen it both ways. Which is better?
Great and informative video. Backpacking trends are always a crack up. This quilt design idea will be replaced with something else very soon or be forgotten as people look back to the classic reliable sleeping bag
Quilts have been around for quite awhile - decades even. I think it's a different approach as opposed to a replacement for sleeping bags. I have friends who like quilts and some who like sleeping bags and both have a great time on trips!
I'm willing to try -15 but last week end we slept at -38.... I'm not convinced yet. But I would be willing to try it it's just at this point its either I spend 800$ on a -30c down sleeping bag, because mine is getting old, and I know what I am getting into or I try a layering system of quilts and I am not sure if it will work or not.... thought?
I think -30C or less would be do-able. You'd just have some pretty massive quilts being layered. There aren't even many sleeping bags that go down to -30C. What I am going with for extreme cold is a Thermarest Polar Ranger bag with the 50F synthetic quilt. That should get me down to below -30C and maybe quite lower. I like having the modularity because there are few instances where I'd need a sleeping bag fully rated to -30, so having the -20 Polar Ranger with a quilt topper makes sense. Nothing cools me off faster than being too warm in a system and sweating a lot.
Justin Outdoors agreed modular is kind of nice!!! And yes I probably only sleep one or 2 nights at that temp per year but when it comes I need to be prepared. I’m just waiting for someone to do a full real - 35 c with a quilt and then I’ll jump in! Haha it’s all about money if I had tones I would just try it myself!
I tried many quilts, but mummy is IMHO much better esp. for cold nights, lighter for the same comfort.. I cant see any reason to use quilts unless you are claustrophobic or for some other psychological reasons.
There is some personal preference with it for sure. Quilts will always be lighter though. And for many, quilts are also much more comfortable (especially for active sleepers).
Justin Outdoors I have several Hammock Gear quilts. Without a hood, you just don’t sleep as warm, never mind needing to use a hat. To each his own, by the way , you come across as a pompous ass. Marty was right. Cheers
Summary: 1. Warm pad, at least R5 for 0°C. a. Layer pads. 2. Warm quilt(s). 3. Layer quilts, lighter one on top, preferably synthetic. 4. Eliminate drafts a. Quilt layering straps from EE. b. Tighten straps. c. Cinch neck and feet of quilt. 5. Keep your head warm, with a beanie or down hood.
If only you could eliminate drafts by connecting the sides around the back, and then attach that separate hood so you don't lose it...you'd have almost a bag you could sleep in, sort of like a quilt bag, call it a "sleeping bag" if you will. That would be a great invention.
The big aspect with that is that I never want to be using all of my layers when sleeping, especially during winter. Those extra layers are my insurance policy if temps drop way more than expected!
Ah well you see, with a sleeping bag you squish the underside making it loose it’s thermal value. A quilt can be better just over you with good sleep mat. A layer above is worth two below.
In did. My sleeping/mummy bag looks The same unzipped. The foot box is what stay intact. Plus that price is crazy for something being pushed as the new thing. My bag is zero degree rated. To hot zipped up at times and I use it as you would the quilt. Plus you needed 2 quilts?? Basically what I see in this video is an unzipped sleeping bag without option to zip closed. IMO.
For my layers while sleeping, I wore really lightweight polyester base layers and then a mid-weight fleece sweater and mid-weight fleece pants. My feet get pretty warm, so I only had on thin merino wool socks. I wore the down hood as well.
Thanks 😊, it took me sometime to realize that it was the sleeping mat/ pad that was the reason my sleeping bag wasn't warm enough. Also if wearing clothing with a light bag I found down or a fleece/ air permiable layer much more comfortable than a conventional synthetic fill top.
I think a lot of people go through that journey of realizing their sleeping pad is what is making them cold!
I JUST TRIED OUT MY FIRST QUILT EVER, LAST NIGHT. In our backyard lol We got the double. The EE Accomplice. We chose the 20 degree (F), and last night it got down to 25-27, so it was a good test. We were warm.
So romantic! what pad are you using it with? How do the pad straps work with a double quilt? I have so many questions! You definitely need to do a review of this quilt! Maybe, one day, I'll have an accomplice.
@@JustinOutdoors I am using my Xtherm even though I don't love it. But I think I'm going to keep it and deal with it for some years longer. I love the weight and the warmth. I did test it out with a pillow so it's kind of working better for me. And the straps are basically the same except there are two slots for two sleeping pads! I filmed a video of us sleeping in the backyard with it and the results hahaha Maybe I'll do a review after the JMT
I just bought the Thermarest vela double quilt for me and my girlfriend. I already had a massdrop klymit double ultralight pad (which is briliant). How did the double quilt perform for you?
@@bandofbros8112 We are liking it so far. I still want to test it more before I can say that I love it for certain. But we've used it on a handful of trips. It's nice because we can each choose to clip our sides or not, so it helps us have our own personal temp regulation system. Which was one of my biggest concerns. I'm a bit worried about what will happen if we bring it and the night is warmer. I tend to THROW sheets off me when I'm hot. So we will see, haha!
I demand royalties for my performance in this video. Was a wicked time getting out again, can't wait for the next one!
Quality stuff as always man! That EE quilt stacking system is pretty wicked!
YES! Pay da man! I betcha he even did part of your filming, too!
Haha! Paybacks, my friend! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@whiteflower5603 I actually did hold camera a few times, lol. The things I do for friends
I pay royalties in hugs. Don't worry, I pay well!
@@JustinOutdoors hugs and good times. :)
LOL!! 😂😂😂😉🤣🤣🤣 Good! You guys are awesome, really. 👍👍👍💕
a hot water bottle in a sleeping bag or quilt is a godsend haha! even though temps don't drop nearly as much as they would in Canada (Netherlands) i've had a fair share of suprisingly cold spring nights in the Belgian Ardennes that had me cosy up with my water bottle :)
Love quilts btw, as a side sleeper they feel much more like a real blanket instead of ending up tangled up in the mummy bag a few hours later
Gotta have the warm bottle! And you're totally right. We don't sleep cocooned up in a sleeping bag at home, why do so on the trail when we don't have to!
Any tips for cheap-ish bottles that can be used (and still be trusted to drink from)? I guess I'm a bit cheap-ish so for me that be less than the Nalgene bottles for $14-24 (just checked the first store I thought ofwithout any protection for the sleeping bag.
Another excellent review! I never thought about the straps, guess I just put up with everything sliding off. Again thanks for helping me make my next trip more comfortable! As always, I look forward to your next review!
Thanks again
Rick from Virginia
I toss and turn A LOT, so the straps keep me from basically throwing the quilt to the opposite end of the tent. haha!
I have slept outside in -20 temps and been warm. I’m a tent user. I have a wool blanket I put on the bottom of the tent to help insulate and makes moving around inside nicer (no freezing floor), then I use a thermarest closed cell, I have a -20 sleeping bag and -10 quilt. Also use a klymet insulated pad (r4.4) that I put inside the -20 sleeping bag. It may seem like over kill, but I’m a side sleeper and toss and turn a lot so all these layers help with drafts and they aren’t that heavy. Comfy in whatever works for you is the most important. Algonquin PP gets cold.
As long as you're comfortable, that's all the matters! #1 thing that will kill a trip is being cold or uncomfortable 🙂
good info on the 4.7R value used for testing. thank you!
you are making great videos. fluid and fast nice talking, always a little smile !
I found your channel this week after going down a gear video rabbit hole! I've been looking for a good Canadian outdoor youtuber for awhile now and have to say that your videos are awesome! Can't wait for the day when we are all allowed out of our houses again.
Thanks Laura! There are a few of us out there, but definitely not as many as in the states. My favourites are Jim Baird, Matty Outdoors, Backcountry Angling Ontario, Backcountry Forward, and Pere Extreme. I can't wait until things get back to a semblance of normal as well. :(
I don't have a quilt yet...but I want one. I love using different systems. Gotta get in the quilt game That Thermarest pad is sweet That's an amazing spot to spend the night.
I love using different systems too! I can't get over how warm the xtherm is for its weight. It's crazy!
@@JustinOutdoors I'm still using a very old Thermarest. Probably not suitable for winter camping , but I have been doing it anyway, for yearsLOL I'm sure I would be blown away by the performance of the Xtherm.
You are a wealth of information Justin, thank you so much!!!
You should consider Zenbivi - that solves a lot of the minor issues with regular quilts - especially the hoody and ‘side walls’ for your upper body
I just ordered the Xthern Reg wide & Vasper 20. I was thinking to order a synthetic sleeping bag to go over it to protect from moisture. Have you tired that also???? Is there a light weight synthetic quilt or sleeping bag you recommend.
Another great video! Curious what layers you wore in the setup besides the down hat? Clothes always seem to be the most difficult part. Thanks and keep the videos coming!
Good point! I'll add that info into the video description. I wore really lightweight polyester base layers and then a mid-weight fleece sweater and mid-weight fleece pants. My feet get pretty warm, so I only had on this merino wool socks.
@@JustinOutdoors Thanks Justin :-) *
Justin Outdoors Awesome! Thanks for clarifying that!!
@@JustinOutdoors Thank you, Justin. Looking for information on best practices for stashing your clothes items you wish to not have frozen in the morning ...when employing top-quilt. May seem like a stupid question, but hoping to gain some tips/insights form those more experienced. Thanks (if you (or Jeremy) ever read this!)
Wow,that view * So glad you have found a happy solution to being toasty warm. What I am taking from your post , is that it is kind of like the principle of building a house.Getting the foundation right so important. :-) Thank you as always for sharing your found knowledge & understanding of these things *
That's a great way to put it! It is like building a house with the sleeping pad being super important!
just curious: how much do the quilts weigh? 'cause taking two quilts could be the same weight as one winter proof sleeping bag? :)
The Enigma 20F is 650g and the revelation 50F synthetic is 350g. So combined - 1kg/2.2lbs. For comparison, a lot of 0F sleeping bags weigh 3lbs or more.
@@JustinOutdoors impressive!
@@fedegoeswoods3142 3 lbs? Ha ha. My Norwegian military winter bag weigh ~3,5 kg or little over 7 lb. xD It's huge and weigh a ton.
On the flip side, it's 50$. I can lay around a fire without worry of sparks. It has a hard shell, so no concern for snow or any other shelter needed. Best of all, I can make a bed out of pine instead of buying a 200$ pad. One object without any fiddling parts that can go wrong. Perfect for me, but not as fancy as Justin's system.
Wille k where did you get your sleeping bag and how warm is it rated for? Sounds like something I need to get.
@@studious2414 Hey. This is me rambling a bit.
olavteigen.mamutweb.com/Shop/Product/Sovepose-Bestselgeren-M85-Forsvarets-Ubrukt/7971882
post@olav-teigen.no
Try to google translate his site. I don't know if Olav sends it internationally, but if sending him an email won't give results, then I'll help you out. The site state 70$ now, but for some reason he charged me 50 $ for it in person. Odd, but 20$ won't overthrow your budget.
I've used it in -15 to -20 C. I know others have used it in -20, and some even into the -30 degrees C. No one I've talked to have had any cold issues with it.
An alternative genius thing the Norwegian armed forces use was the Jerven Fjellduken. It's one item that can act as a substitute for pretty much everything from rainproof poncho, wind proof poncho, warm layer, hammock, backpack, 2x dry bags, sleeping bag, bivy bag, emergency shelter, tarp, drop cloth, cocoon tent. It got Primaloft and excellent camo for hunters, stealth campers and armed forces alike. There's a 10 year warranty of confidence in the product that reeks of quality. I'm sure you can build a boat using it. No joke.
Here's what one of the guys in green said about it the other day: "this is a quality piece of kit. I've had the Jerven Extreme since my time in a recon unit. It's probably my most prized possession. I've used it from +25 centigrade to -72 centigrade effective (-30 with crazy windchill) on maneuvres and in operations abroad, and it's been great all along.
Very much a recommended purchase." He used a private Fjellduk since 98' and it's still kicking ass to this day.
I so envy you being able to hike with Marty outdoors. I’d love to hike in Canada.
I just need to make sure I keep my base weight high enough ;)
Canada is an awesome place to hike! I hope you get to come experience it some day!
Beauty area, eh!? Thanks for showing uour quilt setup but whadid you sleep in? A tarp, a bivy, 2-walled tent, a quinze?
I think I showed it quickly. I was in a Lanshan 1 Pro trekking pole tent!
Thanks for this vid mate! I cant wait to test out my new custom sewn Khibu quilt. 2 more weeks until it is ready.
Ah! A new quilt is such an exciting new piece of gear!
At this point I'm seeing less benefits of using quilts at these temps. Hoods, straps, and snaps all to fix what a mummy bag already does well. I see many people ditching their bags in favour of quilts. For 3 seasons I get it, but for winter or really cold nights it seems like a big hassle. I have the MEC Centaurus -9 bag and in combination of my super thin +5 summer down bag I got this system down to -28c a few weeks ago in only a base layer. The thermos effect (being well sealed) of a well designed bag is one of its biggest benefits. My ground pad was a Dollarama reflectix car sun shade, non insulated air pad, and then a cheap mountain warehouse 8mm foam pad. Quilts are all the rage now and I'm still not sure if it's because they are that much better or if it's just a trend. In your opinion, considering you have these two quilts and an equivalently good mummy bag, why would you opt to use the quilt in a case like this (other than to make this video of course)?
I'm going to be doing a video on the benefits of using a quilt next week, but all of those apply even when winter camping. Many active sleepers find quilts much more comfortable because you're more free to move around and sleep in different positions and quilts weigh significantly less. For many, the comfort and weight savings outweigh the extra 20-30 seconds needed to set a quilt system up. You also usually get more warmth per $ spent with a quilt (weight being similar).
Another reason, for me, would be the temperature versatility of a quilt. I find it much easier to adjust my warmth with a quilt than a bag. I can stick a leg and arm out from under a quilt, undo a strap to let some draft in, or loosen the straps. With a bag, I find the ability to finely tweak warmth to be a bit ore difficult. You can either zip or unzip a bag.
I still think bags are great and the temps I used the quilts on for this trip are definitely around where I would normally use a bag just to avoid the things you mentioned (finickiness especially). But I have only met a couple of people out of many who have tried quilts and bags and still prefer a bag over a quilt for anything warmer than -10C.
Justin Outdoors Thanks for the explanation. All valid points. I’d love to try a quit but it’s hard to justify replacing a system that already own and works for me.
@@megajig Ya, exactly! Unless you need something for different conditions, are going to replace your sleep insulation anyways, or are actively trying to reduce weight it's hard to justify the cost. For me, I did find the comfort difference very noticeable though.
This encouraged me! It's time to save those pennies and make the purchase! What tent were your rocking? Just out of curiosity.
Also, do you know of any other manufacturers that have a layering system? Cus I think you may have won me with that! You KNOW I love my layering systems!
Rocking the Lanshan 1 Pro that trip. It definitely won't be my go-to winter tent though! You could layer anything really, but you would need to rig up some sort of attachment system. UGQ's wafer clips may be compatible with EE's, I'm not 100% sure. So you might be able to use the EE subzero straps with UGQ quilts. Having a synthetic topper has been key. I slept with the synthetic quilt folded back to my waist one wintery night and the upper part of my down quilt was quite wet from the moisture in my breath. No such issues when I had the synthetic quilt layered up.
Justin Outdoors I was curious, cus I’d guess that that’s a bit more of a drafty tent. Good to know that you stayed warm in that!
And I totally get the condensation. Happens with my system all the time. That synthetic is a must.
So basically turn your quilt into a sleeping bag...My issue with all these quilts, bags, pillows, and pads is that it feels like playing Jenga with blocks covered in oil. Everything is constantly sliding all over the place. I might carry some light weight sheets on my next trip to cover the pad and bag...
From enlighten equipment website
When layering quilts, place the lighter quilt on the bottom and the heavier quilt on top for extra warmth. Make sure the compartments that hold the insulation line up properly to avoid cold spots. Using a quilt with synthetic materials on the outer layer can help manage moisture and condensation.
Do you like the EE Sub-Zero Strap better than the EE Quilt Layering Adapter? (It seems to me the Adapter would be more convenient since you only have to release one buckle rather than two in order to get out. Just curious if you’ve tried both options.
Thanks for all the great info! About to place my order with EE!
Thnxs for uploading and sharing this
👍🏻🇺🇸
You betcha!
I have seen the quilts with pad straps pulled under the pad as well as under the body. Which do you recommend for staying warm in the cold?
Just wondering which jacket you are wearing in this video?
Thanks
Rocco
It's discontinued :(
What do you use for a pillow in those kind of temps?
Hey Justin, from your experience do you have a rough guide as to what increase in warmth you can get to by layering quilts (or layering a sleeping bag with a quilt on top)? I'm wanting to extend the range of a bag for a single trip rather than buying an entirely new one, but not sure what sort of boost I can get from a quilt on top. Like, roughly, what would that Revelation 50 quilt add to my -10C comfort/-17C limit bag? (FYI Im also on a S2S extreme mat with a closed cell underneath - combined r-val of 8.2)
Add the two together then subtract 70. (for Fahrenheit).
How do you recommend to keep a quilt on the sleeping pad if it doesn't have the built-in straps? Is there places to buy aftermarket ones
You may have to sew in a set
Justin, would you recommend the down pants made by the same company that made the down hood you had in this video? A down pant recommendation would be nice if you have tried more than a few pairs. I haven't tried any as of yet. thanks
I haven't tried a bunch of down pants unfortunately. I have a $30 pair off Aliexpress. They work well though!
think this was your best video to date btw!
Thanks homie!
I would have the synthetic quilt under the down quilt because it manages moisture better and it takes more weight to compress, but ass always i love your content, keep it up!
Thanks! Just as a heads up for how moisture movements works in sleep systems, the mositure/water that leaves you body is in a gaseous state and stays that way as it moves away from your body, through the sleep system, and out into the atmosphere. If the atmospheric air is cold, the moisture will condense into liquid as it moves away from your body. Normally, this condensing occurs in the outer parts of your sleep system. Like you said, synthetic insulation manages moisture better, so you want to moisture condensing within that synthetic layer. Since the condensing doesn't occur until the moisture is right at the edge of your sleep system, that is where you want your synthetic quilt. You can see this condensing in action when you get frost or frozen water on the outside of your quilt or sleeping bag.
@@JustinOutdoors :-) *
@@JustinOutdoors but most og the moisture will condensate when passing through either your baselayers, liner, the nylon of the first quilt or the down
@@sebastianknudsen3461 hey Sebastien. Based on my understanding of thermodynamics, I'm going to have to disagree with you. For winter camping, if the dew point was within your base layers, you'd freeze to death. If you have articles or literature supporting your point, I'd be happy to take a look and be proven wrong!
@@JustinOutdoors the patera parka
What if you want to sleep in your car at about 4 degrees Celsius without a heater or anything. What do you recommend?
Pretty much any bag will work rated for 20 or 30F
What model OR is that jacket you have on? I’m looking for a nice warm one, even if it isn’t the lightest one around. Thanks!
OR San Juan! It's a light softshell, not made for warmth.
Great video thanks. I'm getting an EE Enigma 20, but am playing to do some mountaineering. Do you think a sleeping bag liner inside the quilt could also provide the same benefits?
Do you mean a vapor barrier liner?
@@JustinOutdoors I've never heard of that I'm thinking of just any sleeping bag liner that will increase the temperature rating of normal sleeping bags.
@@Tomanoppy Did you get any reply to this? Also interested in the same question. Could be a bit cheaper than purchasing two quilts
@@esavirtanen6418 I did not. I think a sleeping bag liner would help a little bit but not significantly.
how hard is that top surface of the sleeping pad? I need something hard enough like wood. The reason being is I made the switch from mattress to floor sleeping and it has helped my back a lot.
It can get pretty hard if you really inflate it!
Hmm, isn't your sleeping pad supposed to have an r-value of 6.9? Also, from what I've heard the testing's been done on a pad with an r-value of 4.8 (though, I think I've read as low as 4.0, but I guess that depends on manufacturer and which standards they adhere to).
On a somewhat related note, I've had some problems finding a good r-value to temp translation (I think I found one a month ago or so but couldn't find it again), do you know what E.G. r-value: 1.2, 3.5, 4, 4.2 or 6.9 would be in either c or F because (unless I misremember) I've seen the ranges 2-4 and 3-5 called 3-season.
And as three season is rather vague and if anything lower than (somewhere between, or maybe, over, depending on manufacturer) 4.0-4.8 is subpar for the sleeping bag/quilt in question - I'm almost ready to just throw my hands in the air and go for a >5, which would be rather silly if e.g. 3.5 is good for -12c (~10F).
3:10 Wouldn't it be better to have the synthetics as the inside bag(bottom layer)? As that'd keep the sweat from reaching the down and not compress the down?
Ya, the Xtherm has an r-value of 6.9. The sleeping bag ISO standard for testing uses a pad with an r-value of 4.8. It's a standard, so it's always consistent. Air temperature doesn't always correlate well with have effective an r-value will be at keeping you warm. If the air temp is freezing, you'll likely need a much higher r-value in the spring when the ground might still be frozen or very cold compared to the end of summer when the ground is nice and warm and holds on to a lot of the heat from during the day. With the exact same air temperatures, I usually find myself needing a much warmer sleeping pad in the spring. Putting the synthetic quilt on the outside addresses the dew point phenomenon. Water condenses as it gets colder, so water vapor will turn to liquid closer to the outside of your sleep insulation, which is why you want the material that deals better with moisture on the outside.
Buying a second quilt for layering can be expensive so don't forget you can just use your puffy camo clothes inside the quilt for added warmth.
How much extra warmth does one get with a sewn foot box vs a zipper draw cord type?
I’m about to get a katabatic flex 15 or 22 or maybe the equivalent quilt with a sewn foot box. Love to hear your thoughts.
The benefits to warmth are small. Especially if you do things like stick a sock into the zipper draw opening. Sewn footboxes are usually lighter as well though. The majority of people I know with zippered footboxes never unzip them and end up just having that as a wasted feature. They think it's a nice versatility piece when buying but, after use, realize they probably should have just gone with the sewn. Happy to answer any more questions!
Justin Outdoors ah, that’s what I thought too but don’t have the experience. For me the biggest advantage of the zippered toe box is it’s $80 less. Thanks for the sound advice. 👍
@@barondavis5692 Ah, that's a big cost difference. For most other manufacturers I've looked at, the difference is usually a few dollars for sewn vs zipper footbox.
Justin Outdoors So, not worth the difference and it’s only an ounce less.
What if you use 2 sleeping pads? One is an inflatable R-Value 1.3, the other self-inflating R-Value 6.5. Which one should I sleep on? Which one should be on the bottom?
It doesn't really matter too much how you stack them. If you find the air pad a bit uncomfortable, putting the foam one on top might help!
@@JustinOutdoors Does one arrangement keep you warmer than the other? That is what I'm curious about.
@@bettersteps I haven't found a difference either way. I find everything stays in place a bit better when the foam is under the air pad, so that's what I do
oops, my question posted earlier isn't phrased well. Is it better to have the quilt tucked under the pad with the straps or under the body? I've seen it both ways. Which is better?
I prefer to have the quilt snug to the sides of the pad - I find this is the best way to eliminate drafts
Great and informative video. Backpacking trends are always a crack up. This quilt design idea will be replaced with something else very soon or be forgotten as people look back to the classic reliable sleeping bag
Quilts have been around for quite awhile - decades even. I think it's a different approach as opposed to a replacement for sleeping bags. I have friends who like quilts and some who like sleeping bags and both have a great time on trips!
I'm willing to try -15 but last week end we slept at -38.... I'm not convinced yet. But I would be willing to try it it's just at this point its either I spend 800$ on a -30c down sleeping bag, because mine is getting old, and I know what I am getting into or I try a layering system of quilts and I am not sure if it will work or not.... thought?
I think -30C or less would be do-able. You'd just have some pretty massive quilts being layered. There aren't even many sleeping bags that go down to -30C. What I am going with for extreme cold is a Thermarest Polar Ranger bag with the 50F synthetic quilt. That should get me down to below -30C and maybe quite lower. I like having the modularity because there are few instances where I'd need a sleeping bag fully rated to -30, so having the -20 Polar Ranger with a quilt topper makes sense. Nothing cools me off faster than being too warm in a system and sweating a lot.
Justin Outdoors agreed modular is kind of nice!!! And yes I probably only sleep one or 2 nights at that temp per year but when it comes I need to be prepared. I’m just waiting for someone to do a full real - 35 c with a quilt and then I’ll jump in! Haha it’s all about money if I had tones I would just try it myself!
A 0F quilt layered with a 30F quilt will likely get down to -40C. I might just need to try and get those and try them out!
Justin Outdoors I would love to see that for sure!!!
Justin Outdoors and ultimately they are two valuable quilts to have for the rest of the year as well!!!
sick sleep system bruh - think quilts would be ok for those who roll around all night?
BEST for people who roll around all night!!!!!!!
Okay wasn’t at glacier lake this year but went there last year...
Good job. Subbed.
Please also give the imperial units for temperature
Great video.
Thanks!
the revelation 50 that you used is the regular size? or did you order the wide version?
Wide for both the enigma and revelation!
I tried many quilts, but mummy is IMHO much better esp. for cold nights, lighter for the same comfort.. I cant see any reason to use quilts unless you are claustrophobic or for some other psychological reasons.
There is some personal preference with it for sure. Quilts will always be lighter though. And for many, quilts are also much more comfortable (especially for active sleepers).
Justin Outdoors Not always lighter. My Western Mountaineering 10 F Versalis is 2 lbs and is good to 0 F with layers.
@@MeetMeOutside Enlightened Equipment Enigma 10 weighs under 700g while the WM Versalite 10 weighs 905g.
Justin Outdoors I have several Hammock Gear quilts. Without a hood, you just don’t sleep as warm, never mind needing to use a hat. To each his own, by the way , you come across as a pompous ass. Marty was right. Cheers
@@MeetMeOutside Sorry you feel that way. To each their own for sure. Quilts will always be lighter though since they consist of less material.
Hi Justin!
Did you use the Lanshan1 there?
I did!
Are both the quilts the same width and length?
They are both regular length and wide width! The synthetic has the zippered footbox though, which allows me to open it up more, if needed.
Summary:
1. Warm pad, at least R5 for 0°C.
a. Layer pads.
2. Warm quilt(s).
3. Layer quilts, lighter one on top, preferably synthetic.
4. Eliminate drafts
a. Quilt layering straps from EE.
b. Tighten straps.
c. Cinch neck and feet of quilt.
5. Keep your head warm, with a beanie or down hood.
If only you could eliminate drafts by connecting the sides around the back, and then attach that separate hood so you don't lose it...you'd have almost a bag you could sleep in, sort of like a quilt bag, call it a "sleeping bag" if you will. That would be a great invention.
Great idea! You should patent that!
Why not use a mummy bag?
A whole bunch of reasons!
Wierd question....with all those cloths baselayer fleece and down pants and jacket would u even need a quilt at all?
The big aspect with that is that I never want to be using all of my layers when sleeping, especially during winter. Those extra layers are my insurance policy if temps drop way more than expected!
I went straight with 0° Enigma ❄️☃️
Go with UGQ next time you order a quilt
Haha. Why?
👏👏👍👌🎄🎅🏻🇳🇴😷
Ah well you see, with a sleeping bag you squish the underside making it loose it’s thermal value. A quilt can be better just over you with good sleep mat. A layer above is worth two below.
Exactly! Next week, I'll be going over exactly that with a video about "why to choose a quilt for backpacking".
Just use an unzipped mummy bag. If you need A closed foot box.
The quilt has quite a few benefits over an unzipped sleeping bag! Check out my video about it here: ua-cam.com/video/bZ43nIU_TsY/v-deo.html
In did. My sleeping/mummy bag looks
The same unzipped. The foot box is what stay intact. Plus that price is crazy for something being pushed as the new thing. My bag is zero degree rated. To hot zipped up at times and I use it as you would the quilt. Plus you needed 2 quilts?? Basically what I see in this video is an unzipped sleeping bag without option to zip closed. IMO.
Just doesn’t seem possible to get warm let alone stay warm in that climate
short answer: have a lot of money for expensive products 😅
learn to do a igloo
q
Or just get a sleeping bag