The Devious Deal To Get Germany's Radar Secrets Back From Neutral Switzerland
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Join me on an incredible journey into a little-known chapter of WW2 history! In my latest video, I'm delving into the extraordinary story of Wilhelm Johnen and his crew, whose combat mission took an unexpected detour, landing them in neutral Switzerland.
After navigating their BF 110 through a challenging operation, they faced a situation unlike any other in wartime. Typically, crews landing in a neutral country would be interned, but what happened to Johnen and his team was far from typical.
🔍 I'll take you through the gripping tale of the secret technology on board their aircraft, a discovery that triggered a covert conflict between German forces and the Swiss. With the Gestapo getting involved, the stakes were higher than ever, leading to a complex web of espionage and strained diplomatic relations.
But just what was hidden in that aircraft? And how did a unique deal between Germany and Switzerland change everything for Johnen and his crew?
🤫 I won't give away the ending here, but get ready for a story filled with espionage, international intrigue, and the unexpected turns of war.
🎥 Watch now to uncover the incredible twists of the BF 110's unplanned Swiss landing in this fascinating WW2 story!"
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0:00 intro
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This incident is also used as part of the plot in the book "The swiss account" by Paul Erdman. A good novel and a damning account of Swiss complicity with the actions of the Germans.
Wauwilermoos was an internment camp and prisoner-of-war penal camp in Switzerland during World War II. It was situated in the municipalities of Wauwil and Egolzwil in the Canton of Lucerne (Luzern). Established in 1940, Wauwilermoos was a penal camp for internees, including Allied soldiers, among them members of the United States Army Air Forces, who were sentenced for attempting to escape from other Swiss camps for interned soldiers, or other offences. Together with Hünenberg and Les Diablerets, Wauwilermoos was one of three Swiss penal camps for internees that were established in Switzerland during World War II. The intolerable conditions were later described by numerous former inmates and by various contemporary reports and studies.
Nice to know the Lanc pilot was from my city of Hamilton, Ontario - also home to V for Vera, one of only 2 flying examples of the bomber.
I didn't know that Michele of the resistance made it to Switzerland. 😂 Then she'd seemed to have contacts everywhere.
@barrythatcher9349 😂😂😂
Interesting story. I've heard a bit about it, but this video was full of details. Very well produced too. 10/10 from me.
Ireland was neutral also and aircraft from both sides landed here. The Germans were interned but the regime was very liberal. They were allowed huge freedom and some even married Irish women. Allied airmen were brought to the border with Northern Ireland and allowed cross. Some aircraft were repaired and used by the Irish Air Corps, others were scrapped but some returned to the Allies, having been stripped of guns and fuel. In many cases, the Irish govt traded them for essential supplies, military and civillian.
Nylons could be purchased there. Marvelous currency.
I seem to remember one Allied Airman, I think he was American, who escaped to Northern Ireland and they sent him back. They realised just how well the Irish were treating these POWs and didn't want to spoil it for the others
It seems that being a neutral country could include some flexibility.
You are right. The world is just like that (a quite messy place).. And sensible people all over the world and in all of history have well known that and they also acted according to it After all Switzerland was totally enclosed for much of the wartime and she heavily depended on imported grain stuff and fuel (coal and oil). Without it the population would have starved or frozen to death. And Switzerland could not count on allied help, Therefore Switzerland had to trade the mentioned stuff for manufactered goods like machinery. .
EXCELLENT video. Thanks for keeping aviation history alive. Greetings from Mexico City
Hola! Glad you enjoyed it!
Oh, those Swiss! Such responsible and kind world citizens!
With their classic « sourire commercial « ….never wears away…you only get one if you buy something…otherwise you get a scowl!
Denouncing xenophobia while being xenophobic: well done, mate !
@@nashtags Congratulations, you understand sarcasm! WELL DONE!
@@mbryson2899 Try harder.
I have his book but its titled "Duel Under the Stars" and printed by New English Library.When i went to the RAF Museum at Hendon in the late 80swhere there was(is?) a bf100 nightfighter and also the Ju88 "Richard" nightfighter that ended up at Dyce.
Yes, the Bf 110 is still at Hendon but I think they moved the Ju 88 to RAF Cosford (Midlands Air Museum). At least I don't remember seeing it when I was there over the summer.
Portugal was also neutral but granted the Azores to the Allies.
Great video Cal, for some reason this one didn't pop up on my notifications and I found it by chance.
I stand by my statement I made 15 years ago which was .
“Just when you think you know everything about WW2 and then you don’t “
Excellent !
Glad you like it!
So now you know the Swiss Roll in the air war. (I'll get my coat).
😀
😂
😅😅😅😅
5:57 Thank you for sharing his book title.
Nice allo allo reference
For fans & students of the era, Switzerland was a "Casablanca" country. NARA files in the US & KEW files in UK related to evaders offer a superb glance at that world.
While diving into archival files, I stumbled on an evasion 'Scandal' involving suspicions certain USAAF aircrew deliberately ended up in Switzerland to get out of the war. Don't know (or have forgotten due to age) what the final outcome of the investigations were but the subject would make for a good show by Caliban.
Thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can dig up.
Keith Janes website 'Conscript Heroes' devoted to evasion has an index with the names of ca 3,000 British Forces SPGs & ca 3,000 American E&E reports. All can now be downloaded for free.
Keith presents the files in a way that allows filtering for specific reasons.
Highly recommened to all interested in evasion matters.
I believe Sweden was also a favoured destination
@@123fishpond Indeed - Stockholm was "Casablanca-North", a Hamburg route for evaders from Germany & a destination for airmen shot down over Norway. Of particular interest in this matter are the ABWEHR (Sweden) files held at KEW as well as files of interned 'Nordics' (Sailers moving agents, etc) held at 'Camp 22'. Some of the latter were soon released to various fates (some VIP) while other were deported to 'home countries' to be judged by them as soon they were liberated from occupation.
Wow, what an intriguing story. This is one I had not heard.
I suspect tbere were differing factions at work in Switzerland, some more sympathetic than others to their German cousins.
Dr Mark Felton relates some incidents when Swiss "armed neutrality" quite potently attacked allied aircraft that had drifted off course ibto Swiss airspace. He also speculates that the allies on occasion may have purposely struck Swiss targets.
I am sure there are many secrets still occluded from our view.
Taking Mark Felton seriously 🌚
Mark Felton is a socialist! Bias...
@@ldkbudda4176 there no nonbiased sources everything is biased!
I first came across Schellenberg in the Soviet spy bok and video "The Seveneteen Moments of Spring". The film in particular was exceptionally careful as to character portrayal on all sides. Schellenberg was portrayed as a very clever man who loved his job and hated certain brutal members of the SS, Heydrich in particular. This was backed up when I read his postwar autobiography.
@CalibanRising >>> Great video...👍
Ah yes the Swiss Air Force in WW2. Somewhat of a frenemy if you may.
kind of describes the Swiss in a lot of ways
a frenemy for both. that means neutral
new here. fine presentation. thx
Thanks for watching!
Gold.
Well, it was such a great friendship that the German BF109s they delivered were equipped with defective engines. The excuse of the so-called best friends was that they suffered from poor metal quality and that's why these defective engines occurred. You should provide all the information even if it doesn't fit the narrative
I mentioned the quality of these 109s.
So germans were so fast to pour defective metal, make them into the engines, install in the aircraft and sell? This are you telling? ;)
NJG-👍👍👍
This is a story I actually knew about.
I might be wrong, but it seemed to me that the Swiss and the Swedes both made a packet out of both sides but were happy enough to lean towards whoever seemed to be winning. I have friends from both countries. My Swiss friends describe their land as a “willing police state” and “the most conservative country on earth” citing the year women got the vote as evidence. They postulated that the Swiss would be more sympathetic towards the Germans.
My Swedish friends say that ‘Sweden was terrified of Nazi occupation’ was just an excuse for them being very obliging toward the Nazis while still trading with the allies, namely the U.K. The Swedes were more concerned about uncle Joe than Adolf Hitler. Fair enough. But they made a lot of money from both sides and were very concerned that they were to be made to pay it back post war.
General Hawk Carlyle told me that many US fighter pilots went looking for Swiss fighter pilots to shoot down after they shot down some American bombers.
Other Scandinavian countries tried to remain neutral but weren’t given the choice. Why Switzerland wasn’t invaded is discussed in some channels videos elsewhere.
As a landlocked, small country, Switzerland was completely surrounded either by axis countries (Germany, Italy) or countries controlled by/depending on Germany (occupied France/vichy France). If Switzerland would not cooperate at least to some degree, Germany could have starved them into submission within a few weeks as Switzerland could not produce enough food to keep its population alive on the limited soil available despite turning any imaginable place into an acre (including public city squares) - search for the term "Anbauschlacht" for that matter. Of course, the Nazis - just like anywhere - did find some sympathisers among some parts of the swiss population (notably among police forces, lower level officials and the stereotypical reactionary/conservative especially within rural german speaking parts and such) but I think it's fair to say that all in all, the clear majority of the swiss population - german speakers included - generally viewed Nazi Germany as the main threat to their sovereignity. Swiss authorities were very sensitive not to appear too "pro german" even towards their own public in order to keep the peace within the country. That was why they elected a "Romand" (french speaking Swiss) as supreme commander of the Swiss army at the outbreak of the war in 1939. At the height of the battle of France, frequent german intrusions into Swiss airspace lead to a string of border clashes that culminated into a full blown air battle between Flugwaffe (Swiss Air Force) and Luftwaffe Squadrons that had to be stopped by Swiss authorities reigning their own troops back to heel in order to not escalate the situation further. Of course - in a country with a culturally conservative but economically liberal tradition as Switzerland, war profiteers and dubious bankers had a field day but the average Swiss citizen felt the hardships due to war related shortages (remember: coal, gas, food - many essential goods had to be imported with prices skyrocketing) and generally did not view the Germans as their friends. Perhaps german individuals on a personal level as most speak the same language - but not in political terms and certainly not on a nationalistic level either. Btw: during the whole time, Switzerland was the only place where one could still buy newspapers and other printed media in german language that was openly critical to Germany. Yet - for reasons mentioned above - the country could only go so far as to oppose the Nazi might and sometimes - with the rejection of Jews and many political refugees in mind for example - one can't fully reject the feeling that they might not have tried hard enough in hindsight.
@@JosipRadnik1 Thank you for that. Very eloquent and informative. And quite correct I’d say. (It’s actually so nice to get a reply that’s well thought out and informative instead of someone trying to ‘just be right’/heuristic or some twat trying to show off and behaving in way which they never, ever would to your face! So, cheers).
Switzerland was surrounded on all sides, didnt have enough fuel and food! What would you have done in this situation?
Then there's the story of the Swiss attacking a damaged B17 that strayed over wounding some crew. Wasn't long after word got out a group of P51s 'strayed' over and when the Swiss fighters flew up they got a rude awakening. Never happened again.
Source
Seem to remember a story that a top us general told the Swiss that he had a thousand bombers and could destroy there country if they didn't let there aircraft go home (someone know this story)?
The british bombers were not easy to hit as described here. As soon as a Lanc rear radar detected a night fighter, it was turned off and attitude of the bomber handed over to the rear gunner to have the planed slewed in any direction to provide a greater arc of fire that was far from easy to evade. The rear gunners had some flight training. Nor was the german radar as secret as they hoped, it was very easy to analyse and deduce from its signal what is was, and the bombers were listening for it and reporting back.
Do you "like" your own posts?
@usersomethingorother … i like the post. Yours is pointless.
@@Jack-bs6zb hi jeff
@@StevenBrown-w5b ... wrong... again!
@@Jack-bs6zb read " Bomber" by Len Deighton . You might learn something. First off ,.the British bombers maintained radio silence. They did not " report back" .....that would have been suicidal.
All kinds of negotiations that led to the awful state of world affairs today took place as early as 1943 In Swiss back rooms.
Can you please spell out the cemetery near Tulle. Thank you.
Choloy
@@CalibanRising Thanks. Cholloy-Menillot. I was puzzled as I have a place near Tulle in the Corrèze, but on Google maps i spotted Toul , so it’s some distance away.
@@californiadreamin8423 Yeah, he's up in the Meurthe-et-Moselle. I've spent a lot of time in your part of France too, more in the 43 and 47, but not too far away.
@@CalibanRising I visited the cemetery at St Paul, and tucked away surrounded by hedging , I found a single headstone for a full bomber crew. Shocking really.
Is that me 262 also a forced landing in Switzerland? If so could it be the one belonging to the pilot who claimed the first supersonic flight? Yep sounds unlikely but it has been claimed
Yes, it's recorded as having landed in Switzerland. I haven't looked into it any further though.
@@CalibanRising some commenter on another channel was claiming that a me 262 was the first to achieve supersonic flight. It didn't sound particularly credible, but the same pilot apparently put one down in Switzerland . Apparently it remained impounded until the end of the war , and he tried to claim it back as his personal property as the German state owner didn't exist any more in its former state of government. Apparently that claim failed and it eventually went to a German museum. That part is the more interesting tale, and shows he might have been a bit of a chancer, hence the other tale. Can't remember his name regrettably.
Edit: Hans Mute, was his name
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Unfortunately, the memoirs quoted in this video are indeed very unreliable. The true account of this Bf110 incident over Switzerland is far more devious and interesting. While researching my book Perilous Moon, Occupied France (Casemate Publishers 2012), I had a lot of really useful help from the Swiss Embassy in London and the Swiss Air Force museum and archivists at Dübendorf near Zurich. They gave me the rights to use their own photographs of this damaged aircraft, (it had an overheated and blown port engine) and of its secret new radar equipment - that the Swiss engineers secretly removed, rapidly analysed and replaced while the the German crew were being arrested and interrogated. The Swiss let the RAF know what they’d found.
The intrigue that then followed involving Goering and the missing millions of Swiss francs for the dud German fighters is well worth following. It’s fully explained in my book.
Curious. In 1940 Switzerland complained to the British about RAF bombers overflying neutral Switzerland, but in 1944 they allowed German nightfighters and crews to return to Germany. In both cases the Swiss seem to have supported Germany, or at least not supported their enemies. (TNA/AIR 20/5304) [Incidentally there is also mentioned the difficulties faced in operating bombers from the south of France, this dated June 1940, probably related to Haddock Force.]
Phil, are there any similar stories about Eire? I know they interred /British/ pilots who landed in the Republic not in Northern Ireland. Did German aircrew have an easier time to get back to Germany?
I don't know specifically about German aircrew in Eire, but I heard that American crews were often treated quite well. I'm sure there is at least one story of a US crew crossing the pond and landing in Ireland only to be allowed to cross over the border into N. Ireland instead of being interned.
There are also cases of both Ireland and Switzerland being mistakenly bombed by Germany and the Allies respectively, so that might have influenced some of their decisions.
Technically speaking, the government of Ireland considered the whole island to be a single country until 1999, so that's possibly how they explained letting Allied pilots get to Northern Ireland after being interned
@@OtterlyInsane Which 'Ireland'? Eire or Northern Ireland? Also no they /didn't/ consider it one island and still don't.. that's the whole crux of the problem between the UK and Ireland and has been for the last 400 years. Nor did they let Allied pilots back into Northern Ireland from Eire.
Éire and Ireland are the same country. One is the Irish name and one is the English. These are defined in Article 4 of the constitution.
Article 2 states “The national territory consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.” - this was amended by the 19th Amendment following the Good Friday peace talks.
It is well documented that allied pilots and sailors who ended up in Ireland were transported to Northern Ireland.
Thanks for the patronising false history lesson on problems in Ireland. Maybe you should do a little research into the Irish constitution before giving your (I assume English) opinion.
@@OtterlyInsane Wrong in every aspect, especially the last.
But did the crew survive the war?
Johnen survived, he died in 2002. The other two men, I don't have any details on that yet.
Switzerland isn't neutral they profit off both sides
This is about the true nature of my Swiss double standards in all aspects of life
You can call it a double standard, I call it successful neutrality. I am grateful to my grandparents and great-grandparents for successfully keeping us out of the world wars. In hindsight, we could certainly have done one thing or another differently, but hindsight is always wiser.
@@christopheoberrauch784 you just sell weapons to both sides of a conflict and hide the dirty money.
Your country conduct in the second world war was nothing to be proud of.
This sort of bullshit turns up in a lot of memoirs. Sometimes it's just typo mistakes, like Heinz Knocke talking about 'menthol' injection (obviously he meant water methanol). But sometimes it's egregious bullshit, as in this case. It's not peculiar to Germans, either. My bullshit meter has gone off scale on occasion reading Yeager, Bob Johnson and Closterman.
The version I was working off was printed in 1958, so I was a bit surprised at the 'mistake'. Still a good source to work off though. Another thing mentioned that I didn't include, was that Johnen had to pull some heavy aerobatics after shooting down the confirmed Lanc on 28.4.1944 because Mahle and 'Brinos' were drinking brandy in the back and not giving him his next target....I'd be very surprised if that were the case. He claims the bottle smashed and they got back to work.
People talk quite casually about the things that are common to them. Worse if they are dictating it to a paid author.
@@20chocsaday Yep, and they also say stuff that's just lies. Folks get bent out of shape when this is pointed out, but I think it's just nationalism-flavoured hypocrisy. I mean, when reading the memoirs of Julius Caesar or Caulaincourt, you bring your skepticism & critical faculties. Same applies to Closterman, Yeager, Hartmann, et als.
@@CalibanRising Yes, that sounds like bullshit. 'Boys own' kind of nonsense.
germany and the swiss were best buddies
If you consider blackmail and threats, Friendship. I would not want to be a friend of yours.
Well, it was such a great friendship that the German BF109s they delivered were equipped with defective engines. The excuse of the so-called best friends was that they suffered from poor metal quality and that's why these defective engines occurred. You should provide all the information even if it doesn't fit the narrative
It was like hate and love relationship .. both needed each other on their own terms…
I don't think that statement is true. On the contrary, Switzerland saw Germany as the strong bully. Many people were terrified of Nazi Germany, especially in French- and Italian parts of Switzerland. And of course there were also real Nazis here who fully supported Germany. But they were only ever a small minority.
Incoherent