David Lloyd George and British Strategy in 1917 | Dr Spencer Jones
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- The intense nature of the battles on the Western Front in 1917 overshadow the political battles that were playing out back in Britain in the same year. The problems that faced David Lloyd George, the new Prime Minister included those of finance (would US Banks continue to finance the war?) and labour unrest.
In this lecture, Spencer Jones looks at both the character of David Lloyd George and also the various crises he faced.
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Jones is outstanding at these presentations, fluent, clear and engaging. He is the best on the WFA channel in my opinion (a channel that is thick with excellent presentations by fine speakers).
yea he is really incredible, i guess its his voice and the clarity with which he speaks? trying to pinpoint it but idk lol . As you acknowledge as well that is nothing to take away from other speakers cause they are all great i love every presentation every single speaker has been great
Spencer Jones continuing as the world's best dress military historian
Another superb presentation by the WFA. Thanks very much for posting this on youtube for us all to watch.
It is really a pleasure to listen to Jones. Thanks for sharing the truth again. Greeting from a dutchy living in Prague.
Hadn't realised before how difficult a year 1917 was for the Allies. Presumably the German and Austrian leadership were also wrestling with economic problems and war weariness.
Brilliant exposition of the strategic dilemma faced by Lloyd Geoge and GB in 1917, for further information please look up Spencer's edited volume 'The Darkest Year' which is brilliant. I can also highly recommend the MA, it's full of great stuff like this. Oh, and Spencer's podcast with dan Hill, Not so Quiet on the Western Front.
One of the best lectures of yours yet
Dr. Spencer's briliantly clarifies the personal dynamics and civil-military relations in the context of the fortunes of war for the allies in 1917 and 1918.
Great lecture, thank you.
At 25:17, The politicians feared the generals, who were lionized by the press as heroes, and who often gave interviews.
i would love to attend one of these
Dr Jones is a great presenter.
A pity you didn’t cover LG’s treatment of John Jellico and his enmity towards Jellico.
👍 Jellicoe was treated appallingly, while that snake Beatty got promoted (outrageous given his performance at Jutland)..
Having read the entirety of "Germany's Aims in the First World War" by Fritz Fischer, I can confidently say that every German peace proposal was a scurrilous peace proposal.
13:00 And right there you see the justification for Siegfried Sassoon's disaffection.
29:58 I've always been very surprised that LG was able to keep his job in the face of having subordinated his own nation's army to the command of a foreign general who had failed so badly.
36:19 The one other thing LG could have done was to modify his belief that the war must be fought to a knockout. There was still time between the Mutinies and 3rd Ypres, but after 3rd Ypres the Germans were setting up for the Michael offensive and would no longer have been interested.
I like the in-person sessions. Thank you.
At 23:41, I read that General Haig was answering a question from Lloyd George about the usefulness of cavalry on the Front.
Is it only me or did this chap’s voice change utterly a year or so ago?
Yeah, he used to have a great Black Country twang in his talks, distinctive but in no way a barrier to understanding or communication. As a linguist, I suspect he may just be "code switching" for presentational purposes, but it still saddens me slightly that people feel the need to stifle their natural accents for formal/academic occasions. I often wonder how William Robertson spoke, as a ranker from humble origins, he must have learnt how to speak "proper" with officers but perhaps he reverted to his natural Lincolnshire accent with the men.
I think Robertson was quite famous for speaking in his natural accent, especially dropping H's
On Flanders: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Policy_Committee
17:25 it seems the Britts hadn't learned the importance of this, when the 2nd WW started. At least they hadn't prepared for it
Lloyd-George, dishonest, slippery, opportunist and prolific, and this was before he acted to get rid of Asquith! He was happy to blame the military, whilst at the same time requiring them to win the war. He would rather someone else paid the price, but not once did he have a political solution beyond requiring a military victory. His memoirs are about as reliable as Churchills, with both 'remembering' themselves at the centre of everything - 'Winston has written a book about himself and called it 'The World Crisis'.
And? Both men had a big hand in changing the social scene. As you point out both men had their faults but lesser men have made much of them
"...dishonest, slippery, opportunist and prolific..."
I'd forgive all that without hesitancy if only he'd had the courage to override Donkey Haig's "optimism" about the outcome of doubling down on 3rd Ypres. Yes, the Tories might have ousted him, but how many unnecessary deaths was avoiding the risk of that worth?
Lloyd George comes across in all the history books as a narcissistic idiot, which may be unfair
WHAT 'strategy'?! The high point of British 'strategy' was the industrial murder of an entire generation of British subjects at the Somme. Where the Germans were actually innovating their tactics, the British and French just threw more artillery at it.
Seriously, the hidebound sheer stupidity of the Imperial British High Command and the French General High Command ought to be considered a war crime.
Understand me here... I mean no disrespect to the Tommy or poilu. Not them or their officers up to the divisional level. But idiots like Haig and French, Foch and Nivelle, with their inability to even listen to any idea newer 1900 outright killed men that need not have died.
I suggest you watch some more of Dr Spencer's talks, there is more to it than meets the eye.
Bollox! Recent Evidence from the German Generals and high command, shows just how incompetent they were during the war. Also, it's a lot easier to innovate and take major risks: your fighting in somebody else's country and you don't have your backs to the wall. The bottom-line is that both of their 2 leaders in the high command(Motke was replaced having a nervous breakdown, then so was his successor), sent letters to their wife and to the Kaiser respectively, saying that they had to find a way out because they could only see themselves losing the war. they then got lucky that the Russians had the revolution pulled out of the war, and even then, with everything in their favour, they found a way to sabotage their future and self-destruct
Seriously, it amazes how people can kiss the Germans ass, in both of these conflicts, when they attacked, taking the opposition by surprise, giving them all the advantages and yet "Bottled" 'what should have been a certain victory and was stop by the incredible decisiveness, realism and dispassionate intensity and diligence of Joffre, despitee seemingly Insurmountable levels of adversity
Lions led by donkeys is a myth.