I find the part of the summary where it says, “Renegades who would kill them for a cookie” absolutely hilarious. That line is meant to demonstrate the savagery and desperation of these people, killing for just a small morsel, but instead it makes them sound like a bunch of sugar addicts. You’d think the author would have written that they killed for something small like a slice of bread or a scrap of meat, but no, these bandits are just craving some fresh baked goods.
Something I find interesting is how the "Spore Wars" doesn't really work, but the extremely similar sounding "Mushroom War" from adventure time works fine. I think it's because in adventure time, it turns out it's a euphemism for massive mushroom clouds of mutagen and delves into the horror of an apocalypse. It's not the name that's bad, it's the presentation
Also a tone thing. Adventure time is broadly whimsical, and gets dark when you think about it/ properly immerse yourself in the material. "Mushroom wars" sounds whimsical at first.
I usually have these on in the background, but I checked in this time and... ...How long has james just been holding a knife in these? I love this. Knife book guy doesn't like your world building
@@JamesTullos At the end of the videos, you should stab the book 1-5 times. One equals “bad” and five equals “a crime against nature that should be incinerated and buried beneath the foundations of tax offices”.
It kinda feels like the author wasn't planning on writting a dystopia but the editor asked them to add this element because of trends? Really gives me that vibe anyway.
my eyes fixed on the knife waving like I'm a prisoner being psychologically tortured by a madman venting about shitty books. james might not be pregnant but he always delivers
9:12 Sure, the Old Man puppeting Blake around is fucking weird, but so was Helena puppeting white bread-chan to date him as part of her assassination plot. Good fucking lord, relationship laws must be a mess in this world. Edit: Okay never mind, the Old Man is a Young Guy, but the point about relationship laws being a mess still applies.
Now that you mention it... This world should be completely different. Particularly, they should have an extreme labour shortage, which would make the entire "starters aren't allowed to work" completely bonkers. They should have the opposite - child labour to the extreme! And no retirement unless you're very powerful.
Fr like how is the world even functioning if no one's working... Like enders are too old to work...and starters aren't allowed and middle aged are all dead... Like are you serious... Starters having to work relentless and without wage etc would make so much more sense.
Wow this sounds like such a uniquely bad YA series You're spot on when you point out how the setting/premise just wouldn't work. Having everyone 20-60 suddenly drop dead but the society is still an advanced techno-dystopia makes 0 sense Also watching you fiddle with the knife/envelope opener all video tickled my brain, thank
bad books like starters and enders is good for a "how not to" tips list how to not write a dystopia, how to miss the mark of an actually halfway interesting cyberpunk story, how not to write an epidemic that murdered more then a third of the population, why writers should read about places that suffered similar large scale loss of lives and how that did or didn't crumble local society, ect ect
ohhh i've been waiting for this! i remember reading "Ender" in junior high or elementary without having read "Starter". i remember the book so it must've made an impact on me somehow, i usually don't remember "eh" media at all. yeah but i couldn't recount the story if you held me at gunpoint. Edit: watched the video, thats about how i remember everything lol May i suggest you take a look at the Monument 14 series? Its a YA postapo series about a bunch of kids trying to make it to the default YA city - Denver. It even has one of these live action trailers - a sign of the times if ive ever seen one.
i read these books when I was 13 like 6 years ago cause i live in the middle of nowhere in south america and the only books available in my town's public library were questionable outdated ya novels and that is all to say... i thought they were a fever dream
Reminds me of 'Uglies' By Scott chip in head, mind control on young people. Parents are scientists. Only that was more a dig at the plastic surgery industry.
Until it turned into being about saving the trees by the end of the series... 😒 The people who write these books should just come up with the basic concepts and let more talented people do the actual writing. We would have so many cool scifi thrillers!
Starters reminds me of the book Hopscotch by Kevin J. Anderson, fuckery with (in that case) body-swapping. Also pretty much everything by Jack L. Chalker.
oh holy shit i read this when i was younger. i loved the first book and the world it presented and i was genuinely angry at how bad the second one was. it’s cool to see someone talk about this short series!
The Spore Wars is when Breloom used Spore on my Flutter Mane but I switched in Galarian Wheezing with Misty Surge and took it down with Sludge Bomb but they still have Amoongus in the team and I have to keep Wheezing alive until I either beat it or Misty Terrain ends and I need to set it again
Im sorry But im pretty sure if basically everyone aged 20-60 died, then society and the economy would both collapse together. Also, even though this takes place in our modern earth, theres this strange feeling that all of these laws and rules put in place after the spore wars are somehow global? Even if that wasnt the intention, at no point does a character consider trying to "run to Canada because they're nicer up there". Its really weird.
I honestly feel like these books were a couple drafts and an editor away from being decent. There are sparks of good ideas and actual good writing, but to me it feels like the author was still trying to figure out how to connect the dots between those ideas. They needed to be fleshed out more.
Oh my, I read this book back in grade 8! I remember being super ambivalent about it. I didn't like it all that much, but I also wanted to see where it would go... the curiosity made me buy Enders, but I guess I did have at least a modicum of self-preservation, because I never ended up reading it lmao
I bought it because the premise seemed very interesting but got bored out of my mind reading it and completely forgot about it😂. Now I'm just happy to hear James eloquently explaining how frustrating this series was
Honestly, if the author wanted to make this a distinct world that is dystopian, maybe have it so the "Middles" (seriously that's a dumb name lmao why did they decide on that) had almost all been used up by the Enders and the use of remote controlled bodies is just believed to be normal by these people with no consideration for the well-being of their "Rentals". Maybe even throw in a line or two that the entire system is designed around trapping young people in this state so they are forced into becoming Rentals. There are interesting stories here about paranoia and isolation enforced by systems. Maybe even throw in social media allegories.
Dang barely into 2024 and you're already treating us. But yeah the moment ya mentioned bioweapons I was intrigued, and immediately forgotten by the sounds of it. Honestly I could see an entire series dedicated to a war primarily using bioweapons as being horrifyingly fascinating. But then if a story focused on that the protagonist would probably have to be a doctor in their middle 30s at the least, I'm sure one could write a love dodecahedron where a bunch of idiotic young teenage idiots are arguing over the affections of a middle aged weirdo but I feel like it could be a tad icky
worth noting the premise of this series - richer ppl renting out the bodies of poorer ppl, culminating in a post-apocalyptic plot for 'permanent rentals' - is literally verbatim the plot of the TV show "Dollhouse". a show that aired 2009-2011..........aka the exact time this author would've been writing this book. edit: the similarities don't end there, based on the summary LMAO
I don't appreciate all the judgement for watching until the end - I'm not *trying* to, but my adhd ass is across the room doing something else while the video plays at 1.5x speed in the background.
I love watching these videos because I’ve never read any of these books you talk about but its always fun. This one, the Book I mean, is much better than the other ones I’ve seen you talk about. It’s got an actually interesting premise behind it. Though I will say it feels more like a rough draft of a story someone accidentally made into a real book. It doesn’t feel like it was fleshed out to reach full potential. Like the bad guy barely being in the story and the romance. I feel like maybe if this was given time to cook, and with a more competent author, It could’ve been a powerful story. Like you said if there where more scenes showing how the older people where using the bodies for absolutely disgusting things would just be sickening but could absolutely work. Overall just from this video I can’t call this book Bad, maybe if I read it I would but who knows. It’s just a lot of missed potential and really boring.
never heard of this! very interesting oh boy is this begging for a rewrite, youre so right about it should be a cyberpunk. think i could swipe the premise without catching a lawsuit?
Change everything but the premise and I assume it would be fine. Characters, backstory, and plot all need to be different... Lots of books have their own twist on a similar premise
Am I the only one who feels like this story is what would happen if you forced AI to binge watch Fringe and then asked it to write an episode? This sounds like some insane scenario that was pretty standard on that show but with sloppier execution
Your conclusions about how the bad guy should have been handled makes me think of how good an example the One Piece Celestial Dragons are for that type of bad guy.
Why can't these hacks ever invent a dystopia that isn't so ridiculously contrived? The world-building in these YA books is almost always such a cringefest.
A bunch of other comments compared this to other dystopian media, but didn't see the one I immediately thought of. A lot of the theme and plot points were also covered in Cyberpunk 2077, from the idea of having someone else's personality in your head/controlling your body due to a chip in your head that results in death if removed (or kept in, in CP2077's case), to a dystopia created by those in charge forcing the rest of the population into lives of poverty and crime.
I find the part of the summary where it says, “Renegades who would kill them for a cookie” absolutely hilarious. That line is meant to demonstrate the savagery and desperation of these people, killing for just a small morsel, but instead it makes them sound like a bunch of sugar addicts. You’d think the author would have written that they killed for something small like a slice of bread or a scrap of meat, but no, these bandits are just craving some fresh baked goods.
i think it also just seems super childish, fitting for under 20 year olds ig (you dont develop taste for veggies until age 23)
That is on purpose tho. They are child-murderers, ofc they will kill for a cookie
@@screaming_ghoulif your really starving you'd kill for a raw onion.
Really makes them seem like funny bandits.
@@screaming_ghoulWhat do you mean? I’ve liked vegetables since I was 7.
“That sounds like someone who’s comfortable being a top or a bottom” oh yeah, The Switchers
Just casually waving around a knife, not even making a reference to it, a subtle design choice, I like.
I find casually brandishing weapons while speaking makes people listen to me more readily. Can't fathom why, but it sure is convenient.
I think it works great. A gun is a little much, but a knife is dignified.
Something I find interesting is how the "Spore Wars" doesn't really work, but the extremely similar sounding "Mushroom War" from adventure time works fine. I think it's because in adventure time, it turns out it's a euphemism for massive mushroom clouds of mutagen and delves into the horror of an apocalypse. It's not the name that's bad, it's the presentation
Also a tone thing. Adventure time is broadly whimsical, and gets dark when you think about it/ properly immerse yourself in the material. "Mushroom wars" sounds whimsical at first.
I think, mushroom wars rolls easier off the tongue as well, but guess that might be different for other people.
I usually have these on in the background, but I checked in this time and...
...How long has james just been holding a knife in these? I love this. Knife book guy doesn't like your world building
Long enough.
Read a book or it gets the knife again!!!
@@JamesTullos
At the end of the videos, you should stab the book 1-5 times. One equals “bad” and five equals “a crime against nature that should be incinerated and buried beneath the foundations of tax offices”.
I find it sp weird to have 2 entire books about bodily autonomy and how people in power strip it from people and then it goes NO WHERE is insane
I think that's most ya dystopian fiction
Basically, it's just frosting on the cake. =_='
15 seconds in: Spore wars? I hope this book is gonna be about magic fungi!
1 minute in: This book isn’t gonna be about magic fungi, is it?
There's always the Japanese light novel series Sabikui Bisco to fulfill your need for post apocalyptical magic fungi.
It kinda feels like the author wasn't planning on writting a dystopia but the editor asked them to add this element because of trends? Really gives me that vibe anyway.
my eyes fixed on the knife waving like I'm a prisoner being psychologically tortured by a madman venting about shitty books. james might not be pregnant but he always delivers
"We don't need to capitalize a Noun for everything and call it worldbuilding." I couldn't have expressed this pet peeve better myself.
Thought the idea of the "Renters" was pretty cool, but then I realised its just the plot to Altered Carbon on Netflix lmao
There also was a show called "Dollhouse" with this premise.
I'd rather have a book about these spore wars. It's like when the clone wars were mentioned in a new hope.
You fool! Did we not learn from our hubris?
@@KaiseaWings Begin, the spore wars have. Hmm.
3:21 Some words are funny. The title character, Reginald Perrin, described himself and his peers as "Middle class, middle aged and middle management"
9:12 Sure, the Old Man puppeting Blake around is fucking weird, but so was Helena puppeting white bread-chan to date him as part of her assassination plot.
Good fucking lord, relationship laws must be a mess in this world.
Edit: Okay never mind, the Old Man is a Young Guy, but the point about relationship laws being a mess still applies.
White bread-chan killed me 😂😂
Now that you mention it... This world should be completely different. Particularly, they should have an extreme labour shortage, which would make the entire "starters aren't allowed to work" completely bonkers.
They should have the opposite - child labour to the extreme! And no retirement unless you're very powerful.
Fr like how is the world even functioning if no one's working... Like enders are too old to work...and starters aren't allowed and middle aged are all dead... Like are you serious... Starters having to work relentless and without wage etc would make so much more sense.
Interesting concept, and I agree it should be a cyberpunk thriller. A world where young people get paid to allow old people to control them.
James out here telling us about the weirdest books that no one has ever heard of and making the most amazing videos about them.
Spore wars sounds like a high school health class parody of Star Wars
This book sounds like someone watched Dollhouse once and wanted to live that realness.
Wow this sounds like such a uniquely bad YA series
You're spot on when you point out how the setting/premise just wouldn't work. Having everyone 20-60 suddenly drop dead but the society is still an advanced techno-dystopia makes 0 sense
Also watching you fiddle with the knife/envelope opener all video tickled my brain, thank
bad books like starters and enders is good for a "how not to" tips list
how to not write a dystopia, how to miss the mark of an actually halfway interesting cyberpunk story, how not to write an epidemic that murdered more then a third of the population, why writers should read about places that suffered similar large scale loss of lives and how that did or didn't crumble local society, ect ect
I actually read the first book. It was before I learned I can put a book down if I don't like it, that I'm supposed to enjoy the books I read lmao.
I read this in middle school! It wasn't excellent but it was entertaining enough for my 12 year old self
ohhh i've been waiting for this!
i remember reading "Ender" in junior high or elementary without having read "Starter". i remember the book so it must've made an impact on me somehow, i usually don't remember "eh" media at all. yeah but i couldn't recount the story if you held me at gunpoint.
Edit: watched the video, thats about how i remember everything lol
May i suggest you take a look at the Monument 14 series? Its a YA postapo series about a bunch of kids trying to make it to the default YA city - Denver. It even has one of these live action trailers - a sign of the times if ive ever seen one.
I don’t mean to nitpick but at 13:11, it’s actually mentioned in the first book, on literally page 17 that her dad was a scientist.
There is a disappointing lack of mushrooms in this duology.
Phone / knife dual wield build has potential I think
If someone ripped off this book but actually did something with the ideas, I'd consider reading that.
thanks for continually putting out such good videos, i work night shifts and youve helped keep me awake for them, i appreciate it bro
i read these books when I was 13 like 6 years ago cause i live in the middle of nowhere in south america and the only books available in my town's public library were questionable outdated ya novels and that is all to say... i thought they were a fever dream
Her blank personality and unique ability to reverse the chip mind control just screams Mary sue. Love the reviews cuz their so in depth.
1:07 whats up with the knife??? Are you gonna kill me for a chance at a cookie?
Until 5:14 you made this genuinely sound like it would be a good story in the right hand. Like a "My Sister's Keeper" type of moral issue thing.
Reminds me of 'Uglies' By Scott chip in head, mind control on young people. Parents are scientists. Only that was more a dig at the plastic surgery industry.
Until it turned into being about saving the trees by the end of the series... 😒 The people who write these books should just come up with the basic concepts and let more talented people do the actual writing. We would have so many cool scifi thrillers!
@@noemitamas4066 😆 maximum ride?
I remember liking Scott Westerfeld’s (he’s also the Uglies author, NOT Fitzgerald) Leviathan books in middle school; I wonder if they’ve held up
@longlivethesheet4561 thanks for the correction! He did the Great Gatsby right?
@@nicole7884 Yep
*scratches head with dagger*
"why did you watch to the end"
because i was playing minecraft on my other monitor
It seems like the author mashed “The Darkest Minds” and “Uglies” into one mutant of a story.
Starters reminds me of the book Hopscotch by Kevin J. Anderson, fuckery with (in that case) body-swapping. Also pretty much everything by Jack L. Chalker.
oh holy shit i read this when i was younger. i loved the first book and the world it presented and i was genuinely angry at how bad the second one was. it’s cool to see someone talk about this short series!
Danny Ric's profile is a vibe! It's just him and he's happy with how he is and thats awesome
The Spore Wars is when Breloom used Spore on my Flutter Mane but I switched in Galarian Wheezing with Misty Surge and took it down with Sludge Bomb but they still have Amoongus in the team and I have to keep Wheezing alive until I either beat it or Misty Terrain ends and I need to set it again
Incredible
I get the reference 😊
Im sorry But im pretty sure if basically everyone aged 20-60 died, then society and the economy would both collapse together.
Also, even though this takes place in our modern earth, theres this strange feeling that all of these laws and rules put in place after the spore wars are somehow global? Even if that wasnt the intention, at no point does a character consider trying to "run to Canada because they're nicer up there". Its really weird.
I honestly feel like these books were a couple drafts and an editor away from being decent. There are sparks of good ideas and actual good writing, but to me it feels like the author was still trying to figure out how to connect the dots between those ideas. They needed to be fleshed out more.
This book as a very simliar premise to the 2009 show dollhouse
Aw man the potential in this one hurts
Oh my, I read this book back in grade 8! I remember being super ambivalent about it. I didn't like it all that much, but I also wanted to see where it would go... the curiosity made me buy Enders, but I guess I did have at least a modicum of self-preservation, because I never ended up reading it lmao
I read both in high school and you saved yourself from so much frustration 😂
I bought it because the premise seemed very interesting but got bored out of my mind reading it and completely forgot about it😂. Now I'm just happy to hear James eloquently explaining how frustrating this series was
Honestly, if the author wanted to make this a distinct world that is dystopian, maybe have it so the "Middles" (seriously that's a dumb name lmao why did they decide on that) had almost all been used up by the Enders and the use of remote controlled bodies is just believed to be normal by these people with no consideration for the well-being of their "Rentals". Maybe even throw in a line or two that the entire system is designed around trapping young people in this state so they are forced into becoming Rentals. There are interesting stories here about paranoia and isolation enforced by systems. Maybe even throw in social media allegories.
This is literally the tv show dollhouse from like 2009 😂
I feel like my face is the spore wars sometimes
I love starters, my favourite character is charmander
Dang barely into 2024 and you're already treating us. But yeah the moment ya mentioned bioweapons I was intrigued, and immediately forgotten by the sounds of it. Honestly I could see an entire series dedicated to a war primarily using bioweapons as being horrifyingly fascinating. But then if a story focused on that the protagonist would probably have to be a doctor in their middle 30s at the least, I'm sure one could write a love dodecahedron where a bunch of idiotic young teenage idiots are arguing over the affections of a middle aged weirdo but I feel like it could be a tad icky
This story has EVERYTHING: Get Out, Truth Or Dare, Uglies, Covid, Lunar Chronicles...
The concept isn't the problem. Get Out did a similar thing, just with a different focus.
luv this guy here
The main thing from these sounds like the movie "Possessor".
It's nice to see interviews for drivers with someone who has some background knowledge. I'd listen to Noel and Danny talk for hours
OHMYGOD i remember reading this book when it came out and i completely forget about it! I don’t think I’ve ever finished it tho
Imitating the voice of The Nemesis: SPOOOOOORES
oh my god i think i read these books but completely forgot abt them until you brought them up
Excellent. These videos are perfect for once I'm off work and unwinding at home. I shall return in only a few hours time.
True to my word, I'm back but later than intended. I shall now fall asleep to this video.
Pretty sure cyberpunk is a type of dystopia
I'm pretty sure a society of old people would simply not be able to maintain the force required to keep a society of young people oppressed
I'm glad I'm not the only one who experienced this fever dream
worth noting the premise of this series - richer ppl renting out the bodies of poorer ppl, culminating in a post-apocalyptic plot for 'permanent rentals' - is literally verbatim the plot of the TV show "Dollhouse". a show that aired 2009-2011..........aka the exact time this author would've been writing this book.
edit: the similarities don't end there, based on the summary LMAO
I don't appreciate all the judgement for watching until the end - I'm not *trying* to, but my adhd ass is across the room doing something else while the video plays at 1.5x speed in the background.
I love watching these videos because I’ve never read any of these books you talk about but its always fun.
This one, the Book I mean, is much better than the other ones I’ve seen you talk about. It’s got an actually interesting premise behind it. Though I will say it feels more like a rough draft of a story someone accidentally made into a real book.
It doesn’t feel like it was fleshed out to reach full potential. Like the bad guy barely being in the story and the romance. I feel like maybe if this was given time to cook, and with a more competent author, It could’ve been a powerful story.
Like you said if there where more scenes showing how the older people where using the bodies for absolutely disgusting things would just be sickening but could absolutely work.
Overall just from this video I can’t call this book Bad, maybe if I read it I would but who knows. It’s just a lot of missed potential and really boring.
I’m so confused why 30-60 year olds disappearing leads to old people stealing young people’s bodies????? Like what was the order of events here
Woo. I've been waiting for this.
“Nobody ever watches to the end of UA-cam videos” I guess that means I’m nobody 😤💪
You have been grinding, James. Cool
When the thumbnail wasn't yet loaded in I read the title and assumed it is a fan fiction of Spore - the evolution video game.
never heard of this! very interesting
oh boy is this begging for a rewrite, youre so right about it should be a cyberpunk. think i could swipe the premise without catching a lawsuit?
Change everything but the premise and I assume it would be fine. Characters, backstory, and plot all need to be different... Lots of books have their own twist on a similar premise
man i read the first book and always wondered what the hell it happened after but refused to pick it up so... thank you
“China releases spores to kill everyone.” The fact that this insane plot point gets no focus is such a bad sign for the rest of the book.
Ill be honest, when I heard about the renter thing, I was thinking of sex work.
I bought this book as a teen and never finished reading it. Can't wait for the video
The main idea is really just Altered Carbon with some disconnected Apocalypse in the Background.
I've read this book when I was 10 years old and never heard anyone talking about it, you always surprises me
Am I the only one who feels like this story is what would happen if you forced AI to binge watch Fringe and then asked it to write an episode? This sounds like some insane scenario that was pretty standard on that show but with sloppier execution
I totally forgot i read these books as a kid lol i only think i read the first book but i totally forgot it was called that
The names in this series is like my placeholder names: Zero subtlety.
fINALLY SOMEONE ELSE WHO KNOWS THESE BOOKS LMAO
I never heard of this book, but I'm pretty sure I have heard the term "Spore Wars" somewhere before
Your conclusions about how the bad guy should have been handled makes me think of how good an example the One Piece Celestial Dragons are for that type of bad guy.
I love your videos about insane books I have never heard of in my life
Why can't these hacks ever invent a dystopia that isn't so ridiculously contrived? The world-building in these YA books is almost always such a cringefest.
Nice video James lol
It weirded me out so much her falling in love with the Old Man in Starters. I've never read Enders.
Is james the scary spooky knife 🔪guy
Why are no comments mentioning that in the first 3 minutes of this video James reveals he is a switch in bed 🤣
Okay, but what has the knife got to do with all of it?
Good review!
This totally sounds like Dollhouse has a younger edgy sibling
Do the Enders live in the Zone Of The Enders?
As a trans person im just gonna speak for all of us; we don't want this one chief you can keep it lol
so.. starters is the one safe place by tania unsworth, but worse?
Can you do a recommendation series for books you read for dystopia. Because you’re the dystopia guy and I don’t wanna waste money on something bad
Just pirate and buy if you like the story.
I remember reading the first book and thinking ........ how was this published, it's so badly written and jumps from one place to the other
If anyone likes this concept and wants an actually good book about it ‘Anyone’ by Charles Soule is my recommendation
A bunch of other comments compared this to other dystopian media, but didn't see the one I immediately thought of. A lot of the theme and plot points were also covered in Cyberpunk 2077, from the idea of having someone else's personality in your head/controlling your body due to a chip in your head that results in death if removed (or kept in, in CP2077's case), to a dystopia created by those in charge forcing the rest of the population into lives of poverty and crime.