All of the main Shorin-ryu styles are original Okinawan ones, and they all have different names. They can all be pronounced shorin-ryu in the modern Japanese of Okinawa, but in the older language each is pronounced differently: kobayashi, shobayashi, kobayashi, matsubayashi, sukunaihashi, etc. Derivative styles are only natural in lineages of a martial art that is passed down throughout history. Shorin-ryu is a derivative of Shuri-te and or Tomari-te, which is a blend of Ti and Kenpo (ChuanFa).
I am a Kyokushin Karate player, and I get your point. But usually, full contact isnt allowed because the moves can kill. Back in my white belt days, i got a punch that left me breathless for atleast 5 seconds. I don't see the point of going into tournaments and learn self defense to die in the process, the moves are there to show you how to defend yourself against someone out in the real world. That applies to ALL martial arts, and in-fact, it's NOT about STYLE, it's about YOU,GuessWhoSaidThat
The Seibukan way is one of humility, and Zenpo Shimabukuro Sensei is a very humble and very nice man. In 2008 he was promoted to Judan and given a red belt, but as far as I know, he usually only wears it at special events, promotions, seminars, etc. Most of the time he just wears a black belt with the 3 stripes on each end. Wearing one's red belt around all the time is viewed by some to be a rather ostentatious practice, kinda like showing off your rank, same goes for kyoshi or renshi belt.
Black belt in karate stopped because it does not make sense for real life situation to much work in emptiness in the air like kata..even the bunkai lots of it does not make sense . I love karate but they need more one to one drills more touch we have to adapt our stance to the situation. Not situation to our stance!! Sorry just my honest opinion.
There is a LOT of bad shorin-ryu out there. You have to understand that a lot of karate was brought back to the states by marines that had 6 months to a year of training and that's it. Very few of them continued their training and actually learned enough to become very competent. My instructor was one of the few that actually sought out multiple Okinawan masters and continued his education for decades after he left Okinawa. This is the difference. He also had very good well known teachers.
F=M*A Means that you can fight someone heavier and bigger than you if you can accelerate more. You simply think martial arts as combat sports. The only thing that make real difference is your commitment to win. If you need to survive you only need not to be touched and hit in the hardest manner to get the time it suffices to go away. It doesn't need to be big or tough: you can equally use a straight punch or a finger in the eye. Nothing you can do in any tournament.
You are talking about titles and trophies. I am talking about combat arts designed to keep you alive. I don't care what these ppl accomplished. They won their "titles" against other sport fighters. And just because they won a title doesn't mean they are a master. You really think someone in their 20s or 30s can MASTER an art that quickly? Not unless they were some sort of prodigy and started training at age 5 would that remotely be possible.
Before you start disrespecting ppl and trying to impress us all with your vocabulary, do YOUR homework. Chosin Chibana invented a STYLE of shorin-ryu called kobayashi. Shorin-ryu itself started with a man named Bushi Matsumura who is credited with "Shuri-Te" which his students spread to form the different styles of shorin-ryu. Itosu was a student of Matsumura. Money does not make the world turn, buddy. You think the trials and hardships these old warriors went through was for money?
@EdDy Maybe u r a good fighter but please don't disrespect these guys, they are real good. How do I know, I've practised this style and checked it in streetfights many years ago (Sorry Sensei), it works and I don't have a black belt. About boxing one shaolin origin exercise to develop speed and muscle power plus the twitch needed for a punch our Sensei taught us is still being used by a western boxing school nearby bcos it's very effective bcos some of our students went there to learn.
Shorin-Ryu is an art and a style, not a fighting system. For example If there's a modern deadly technique that no art, style, sport has ever seen, then combat systems will adopt it. However, arts and styles such as Shorin-Ryu, Wing Chun, won't. Why? Because they're arts and styles based on ancestors teachings, not based on what's effective and ideal.
I've looked up Machida. He stated that he trains with Muay Thai boxers to prepare himself for what he will face in the octagon, but he never uses it himself. Bleacher Report even posted a breakdown of Machida's style and how it differs from typical MMA fighters. His sideways stances, kicks, footwork, punch delivery, are all typical of Karate, not squared-up like Thai Boxing, which is why he confuses opponents. He is a BJJ blackbelt, but rarely goes to the ground. And I already know about Judo.
shadow boxing could be considered a form, your going through boxing motions, yet fighting no one except the air, the exact complaint you have against kata or forms
Okinawans are hardcore when it comes to resistance training and hard body conditioning. Mas Oyama adopted Okinawan training techniques when creating Kyokushin, which is about 40% Shotokan and 60% Goju Ryu. And like I said, old school kickboxing champions Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace were both Shorin Ryu practitioners. And I didn't bring up Japanese Jujutsu at all, but since you did, Kano's Judo students were defeated by the Fusen Ryu jujutsu school, who specialized in newaza. But each to his own
You must also take into consideration the times in which karate was developed. The times the Okinawan ppl lived in were a far cry from the luxuries we are use to today. Their art was made for survival... if they failed this could mean their families or entire village suffered or were killed. They did not play around with their art or make a sport of it. How can you say it is obsolete when it was made for survival in tougher times than we are living in now? Have humans changed that much?
And of course you're right, you need to supplement striking with grappling to be sucessful in MMA. This is why karateka since time immemorial have cross trained in Judo, from karateka/judoka Benny Urquidez, to Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace, who were also collegiate wrestlers. This is nothing new.
I find Shorin-ryu Karate to be the most practical. It means "little man" form and I think it's great for tight spots and just everyday walking down the street stuff. There are also not that many (if any at all) flamboyant kicks, which is where I think a lot of flaws can be found in other forms.
And again, if you're such a bad-ass MT fighter then why are you wasting time trolling around youtube picking fights with total strangers? That's the act of cowardly keyboard warriors who need to compensate for their own insecurities by boasting behind the safety of a PC. Real fighters spend their time training and fighting, not trolling on youtube. You wouldn't need to go around touting the superiority of your style if you actually felt confident about yourself.
Most fighters train in MT because it's the only striking style used in MMA gyms. You won't find a lot of diversity in most MMA gyms these days. But more and more Karateka are entering MMA every year, such as Michael Page and John Makdessi. And Machida did not get "owned" by Jones and Rua. Machida wasn't fighting his best game against Rua, who hasn't won a fight since getting whupped by Jones. And Machida gave Jones a better fight than anyone else in the light heavyweight division.
And yes, I do see that you're an angry person and I doubt very much that it has anything to do with Shorin Ryu, but more with a kind of thug mentality that's all too common these days. Why come to this vid in the first place if that's your attitude? No one forced you here, and no one's "claiming" anything about your sport, whatever that is. You should stick to vids you enjoy rather than going around flexing keyboard warrior muscles and using immature, profane, and homophobic slurs.
Also, calling Okinawan Karate "fraudulet" is also not true. The Japanese would never have adopted it in the first place if they thought that. Judo founder Jigoro Kano was so impressed by Shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi's style that he invited him to give demos at the Kodokan. Okinawan Goju Ryu was officially considered Budo by the Japanese in 1933. And U.S. Army Ranger combatatives expert Matt Larsen trained in Shorin Ryu and Shotokan as well as Judo, and incorporated it into his system.
I'm sorry, but saying that Machida doesn't train in Shotokan at all is just plain nonsense. Machida has said repeatedly that his style is Machida karate, not Muay thai, and anyone(especially MMA journalists) can see that his stand up does not resemble Muay Thai at all. He's stated that he trains with Thai boxers to prepare for what he'll face in the ring, just as Ryan Bader trained against a Karate specialist to prepare for Machida. I will send the the Bleacher Report article on him.
Mas Oyama was Korean, and as such would never have been a Kamikaze pilot. And to say that his success had very little to do with Shotokan and Goju Ryu is like saying he made Kyokushin up out of thin air, which is not the case. When Mas Oyama's Kyokushin fighters beat the Thai Boxers in 1964 it was before they had ever fought against Thai boxers at all. And I mentioned Machida and Neil Grove using Shotokan and Goju Ryu in MMA and have won fights by knockout. You seem quite an angry person.
Sorry, but Okinawan Karate was adopted by the WWII marines and soldiers stationed in Okinawa who brought these arts back to the USA. Hardened combat vets wouldn't have adopted a fighting style that wasn't effective. I've heard people say the exact opposit;, that except for Kyokushin, Japanese Karate watered down the art for sport. Machida practices the original Shotokan created by Funakoshi, not the JKA version. And TKD has become one of the most riduculed MA in the world since the Olympics.
everyones balance, skills, assets are different. this ''nitpicking'' is inappropriate as done here. no one fights this way. i after being student since 1968 this way of instruction leaves me confused
Ok the tenth dan red belt does not symbolize 50 years of training. Eizo Shimabukoru achieved tenth dan at the age of 35. In fact on all certificates of the Okinawan karate rendokan got tenth degree you will find his name and stamp. Red belt signifies understanding and is awarded at ninth dan. My instructor returned from Okinawa in April with his ninth dan and a red belt. Besides belts just make identifying a teacher easier. These people would still be masters no matter if they wore a belt
Just as there are different styles with karate, there are also different branches within one style. Perhaps this gentleman's branch of Shorin-Ryu does not have the redbelt. Or, perhaps they give him the option of wearing either belt. Furthermore, can any branch of karate today truly call itself original? There are many kata and practices done in the old beginnings that are no longer done. Even honored styles like Goju and Uechi-Ryu do at least a few things differently than when they began.
style doesnt matter, its the person. for instance, i could beat you down with just wrestling, or just judo, or boxing, or even taekwondo for that matter. it doesnt really matter what i would use. i would still use feints, bait and trap and use superior footwork, speed and power. i like almost every style of karate, including kyokushin(its prolly my favorite). the fact of the matter is style doesnt matter, it all boils down to how well you can use your technique against an opponent.
Kyokushin is just filtered, synthesized Karate. They extracted useful elements of karate, got rid of majority of Karate, while creating full contact training, something okinawans never had in their history. Kyokushin developed and their training curriculum changed and improved once they sparred and fought with Muay Thai fighters as they learned the importance of what is required to become a skilled fighter.
I would love you to say this in front of GSP and challenge him to a fight. Kyokushin has way more accomplishment than any of Okinawan arts while being combat effective. Kyokushin enter various matches and challenges, whether it be MMA, K-1, Muay Thai, etc. TRUE fighters don't make excuses for their failure to accomplish challenges. TRUE fighters adapt and utilize their techniques and skills to seek challenges. Okinawan Karate is just as gay as Kung Fu.
The ridiculously long, deep stances of Jap Karate are not combat effective. There is a fine balance between being mobile and having balance. These stances may have a lot of balance but have zero mobility. If you can't jump in the stance you're in then it is not a good stance. Also, Japan altered karate because it was too dangerous for school children. The primary aim of adopting karate was for their school curiculum. I can guarantee you've NEVER seen real Okinawan karate.
And too bad their art failed to do their job because they got fucked over, dicked down by Japanese samurais and Japan took over Okinawa. Japan synthesized and refined their art, created Kyokushin and offsprings. Ever wonder why Kyokushin is the only successful Karate of all Karate styles? Because they fight full contact, challenge themselves not only through conditioning but by sparring and fighting other styles instead of dancing around all day doing corny forms 24/7.
At least we have one thing in common. We both know that doing 10-20 punches a second isn't worth jack shit. It was to prove carlo orecchia's comment flawed where he only talks about acceleration. Wing Chun is extremely flawed art where they focus on acceleration and speed of attacks just because of f=ma but as you and i pointed out, 10-20 worthless speedy punches don't mean jack shit.
10-20 punches a second my ass. That would be more than a world record. Besides who gives a shit if you can punch that fast. A real martial art is about one punch and the guy is down. If I have to throw 10 punches or even 3 punches I am doing something wrong. MMA's strategy is go in for some punishment, hug each other for a min and then back off. Repeat. Go to the ground and hope someone taps out. If not pray that you outlast the guy because you're in better shape. What a joke.
This is the only power a boxer knows how to generate is through his hip. A karate man learns to generate many kinds of power- upward power, downward power, forward power, and using the entire body to hit, not just hips or the arms. It is a progressive thing and takes time to develop. Anybody can learn to "use their hip" to hit with. And it doesn't do much good to develop a hard hitting punch if you don't have a fighting strategy to defeat your opponent with. You're too worried about muscles.
Look, for once I will agree with you. There is a lot of bad traditional arts out there. But just because you haven't seen a good traditional art that works doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Do you honestly believe the masters of old resembled anything like MMA? And I really hope you're not going to argue that these old guys didn't know what they were doing, because it's a historical fact that they were feared and respected by many.
However, Boxing hooks utilize every part of your body by momentum created from footwork, pivot of hips, angle of the punch, which generates more force due to its distance that gives lot of room to create higher acceleration while creating higher mass by utilizing your body to increase mass of your attack efficiently within your attacks. It may be slightly slower than wing chun straight punches or karate punches but it's sure as hell more effective and deadly.
Just because you can accelerate fast doesn't mean you'll utilize the mass efficiently. There are many variables that defies your flawed logic of acceleration. For example, look at wing chun. They have straight punches that can throw 10-20 punches within a second. Does that mean they're generating the force of their mass times acceleration? No. They're only generation the mass of their forearms and their knuckles, which is extremely weak.
I'm done with this conversation. You don't seem to get it nor will you ever. That's ok, your loss, my gain. I'll continue doing what I know to be true, because it works and has worked time and time again. I can't tell you how many "tough guys" like you that do MMA come into our dojo all cocky and then end up eating concrete. MMA is a short cut for those who don't want to put the time and effort in to learn a real martial art. MMA is an assembly line for cranking out 1/2 ass MA record time.
Lastly, the kata is abstract. You can't "do" a kata on someone. The kata is like an encyclopedia of fighting. Your brain will pull what it needs when it needs it. You learn not to rely on your own strength or ability but what the kata has taught you. So in real fighting kata is there, it just doesn't look the same as when someone is formally doing it. Kata is the best kept secret that's right in front of everyone's eyes.
MMA uses weight classes because even an "experienced" fighter in a lower weight class would get beat up by a bigger guy. MMA, krav maga, systema, none of those guys do kata, and it's sad because they don't realize what they're missing out on. Sad part is most ppl don't understand the kata and how to apply it properly. If that's the case, then it's a waste of time. But for those who do truly understand it, it is what transforms a MA into an elite fighter.
Alright, for the record I am 30 years old, so you can quit calling me a kid. I have been a martial artist for 20 years now and I know what I'm talking about. MMA did not re-invent the wheel. Where do you think MMA got there "stuff" from? You are looking at kata too literally. Kata is what gives you the ability to become better than your own abilities. The kata does the technique for you, not the other way around. Kata and real fighting are two different things.
MMA is a philosophy of mixing martial arts that consists of stand-up and ground fighting to become a well rounded fighter. UFC, Strikeforce, PRIDE are MMA in sport form where it proves who's the best bare handed fighter in 1 on 1 scenario. However, MMA used towards street application and survival are combat systems such as Krav Maga, Systema, Marine Corps, military combat systems, etc that uses MMA modern philosophy. They don't dance around or do corny forms like shorin-ryu or wing chun.
Titles and trophies at a professional level within the art or sport proves their mastery of their discipline. Nobody said that their accomplishment in their discipline proves them as a best fighter. It was to prove that people who mastered their art joined MMA because there's no future and revenue for them unless they come from professional boxing background. It clearly disputes your statement of "jack of all trades, masters of none". which you cannot accept since you're stuck in ur karate world
Weight classes exist because among experienced, professional fighters, weight gives people advantage. Weight classes is to get rid of that natural advantage. 140lb experienced, skilled fighter would be able to kick 220llb inexperienced, dull fighter's ass. But if that 220lb fighter becomes experienced and skilled as equally as 140lb, then 220lb will have advantage. You clearly are a kid who has no common sense.
And quit pretending you know who I am. Believe me, I'd love to show your MMA ass a thing or two. But that's not possible over the internet. You don't know the difference between a combat art and a sport art. You keep calling MMA a combat art, but if you truly saw a combat art you would know that not to be the truth. A combat art does not put on gloves and bounce around for 3 mins. Why do you think going to the ground is a good idea? That just means you can't fight on your feet.
Your problem is you keep focusing on physical strength and athletic ability. Of course it is at its peak during the 20s-early 40s. No one is denying that. Why is it that MMA and UFC utilize weight categories? Is it because a 140 lb guy would get whooped by a 220 lb guy? Yeah he would probably get his ass kicked if he went by UFC rules. I don't care how "experienced" someone is... If I take his eye or his knee he is going down, I don't care who he is, or how big he is.
You base that on what? Personal experience? I'll be the 1st to admit there is a LOT of bad shorin-ryu out there. Not just that, but bad TKD, kung fu, you name it. But that doesn't mean this applies to everyone. There are guys out there who know what they're doing. And I'd love to see you mouth off at one of these guys that do, cuz you'd be on the ground and you wouldn't be getting up for "round 2."
Masters? Are you kidding me? Most of these guys are in their 20s and 30s!! You must really think highly of yourself and MMA. And you keep talking about "experienced" fighers like that can't apply to someone who doesn't train MMA. I myself am an "experienced" fighter and I've met a lot of ppl in my time who are experienced, and quite frankly could whoop any MMA dude I've ever seen. You can keep on thinking that MMA is the best things since sliced bread... I dont really care. Your loss.
And you've clearly never seen a real combat art that actually has a strategy. The MMA strategy, or lack thereof, is get in there and duke it out. Of course you're going to get hit if that's your strategy. Not saying a good karate man can't get hit, but he puts himself in a position to where he has the advantage. And who said karate ka don't condition themselves? You've obviously never heard of kyotiate training. Lots of hard work and conditioning... don't get confused here.
I've proven you wrong at every aspect of your argument. Love how people say "jack of all trades, masters of none". Do you even know why these fighters fight in UFC or MMA? Because they've proven themselves as masters of their art and proven enough that they have mastery of the art or sport they practiced in but there's no money and revenue for them. So they decide to join MMA since it provides revenue but at the same time, learn new art or sport that can supplement their weakness.
I don't care what fighters you consider to be "accomplished." Any fool can pick up a tv remote and turn it to UFC and watch MMA. This is how a typical fight goes... the two fighters start out pecking at each other with jabs. Everyone's bored. Uh oh here comes an attempted shin kick. More boredom. And then here comes the tackle. Both go to the ground and then we're in a borderline homosexual wrestling match for the next 5-10 mins until someone "taps out."
Combat systems such as Krav Maga, Systema adopt various effective techniques from various arts and styles. Creator of Krav Maga Imi Lichtenfeld was an amateur boxer and wrestler. He tweaked his boxing and wrestling skills towards street usage to defend the Jewish community. As Israel was found, they adopted various techniques like Muay Thai elbow and kneeing techniques, as well as limited BJJ just enough to learn to stand on ur feet and scramble out of the ground if ever taken to it.
Tatsuo Yamada was influenced from watching Boxing and Muay Thai. Muay Thai was formed from Muay Boran fighters fighting each other. Tatsuo Yamada decided to do the same thing and put two Karate fighters to fight against each other. But guess what? When they fought, they realized lot of the stuff they trained was not even being used and they were just boxing and kicking horribly. They realized they wasted their lives practicing nonsense and decided to train fighting techniques directly.
Hidehiko Yoshida - Olympics Judo Gold Medalist Brock Lesnar - NCAA Greco-Roman Wrestling Champion Cro Cop, Alistair Overeem - K-1 Kickboxing Champions Cung Le - Sanshou champion Ray Mercer and James Toney - WBO and IBF champion GSP - Kyokushin karateka 3rd degree black belt Anthony Pettis - TKD 3rd degree black belt Rulon Gardner - Olympics Greco-Roman Wrestling Gold Medalist Ronda Rousey - First female American Judo medalist List goes on Your knowledge fails at every level.
Maybe it's because we're focusing on how not to get hit. All the monkeys out there jumping on the MMA bandwagon have to condition to take hits because that's all they know. And honestly in the street you don't want to risk taking a bunch of hits, cuz one poke with a knife and you're done. You don't see the value in kata because you don't understand it. You've never shorin-ryu, period dot. At least not real shorin-ryu. It's not as common as you think it is. Neither is any real MA.
Please just stop. You don't know what you're talking about. The samurai's didn't practice jiu-jitsu to "win wars." Yeah because in the middle of a sword fight they are going to the ground and applying submissions right? Same with the Spartans. Pankration was more of a Greek wrestling art. But do you think these guys were wrestling with their enemies? There's no time for that. Their art had to fast and deadly. You are trying to validate MMA but doing a crappy job at it.
Yeah there are some karate masters out there that did charge and made a business out of it, but shit they have families they have to support. MMA, UFC, whatever you want to call it all the fighters on there fight a sport fighting art. The word MMA means mixed which basically equals "jack of all trades, master of none." Not a single MMA fighter has truly mastered any one of the martial arts they are claiming to study.
You think the sport fighting arts are not legitimate combat art? Boxing dates back to bare knuckle fighting, Wrestling dates back to Spartans where they used pankration in the war to win fights. BJJ and Judo roots back to Jiujitsu where the Samurais have used to win wars. Muay Thai is mixture of Boxing and Muay Boran, an art that dates back and was used in the war against Burma when they were in environment weapons can't be used or war condition didn't allow them to use weapons.
Chosin Chibana did not invent shorin ryu. You want to talk about money what do you think the UFC is about? It's all about promotions and making money, just like boxing. UFC is a sport fighting art. Don't even try to compare it to a legitimate combat art. It attracts the best fighters and coaches in comparison to what? You can't re-invent the wheel. UFC is not some godsend that all the sudden has discovered the secret to how to fight. In fact they do a pretty awful job at it.
Again karate is deadly effective, but not everyone is qualified to teach karate. A good instructor will teach you how to defend yourself without the need for strength. How are you going to sit here and say that taking steroids and other drugs gives an advantage over "normal" people? You think some juiced up dude would stand a chance against some of the old gray karate masters out there? Yeah right. It's not about muscles at all.
What? Are you high? Of course it is a fighting system, but it all depends on who is teaching it. If you are basing shorin ryu off of this video then no wonder you think what you think. Bushi Matsumura, one of the greatest warriors on Okinawa, founded what was to be Shorin-Ryu. Shorin-ryu lineage influenced what it now Shotokan. So how are you going to say it doesn't teach how to fight? Let me tell you, if/when you see REAL shorin-ryu you won't be saying what you're saying.
You talk as if Shorin-Ryu is the only art that teaches how to fight. And who's talking about steroids and hormones? And based on training curriculum of Shorin-Ryu, it doesn't really teach how to fight. It's more of art, not a fighting system. None of the stuff in this video attribute to fighting effectively against resisting fighters. So your argument fails. Shotokan is still way more respectable than Shorin-Ryu. Machida himself would crush all Shorin-Ryu fighters in 1 on 1 street fight.
And same can be said for Shorin-Ryu as well. Shorin-Ryu was a cash factory for Choshin Chibana. Money makes the world turn, buddy. Right now, UFC, MMA, K-1, or any full contact competitions have positioned themselves to attract the best fighters and best coaches around the world. Even guys like Steven Seagal, Aikido 8th degree black belt, is trying to position himself as a trainer although I don't like him.
ok, regarding the Machida debate. I'll admit that I was wrong about me saying Machida doesn't use Shotokan and that it's just publicity thing. You debate with strong references, so I'll give you that. But as I've mentioned before, Machida using Shotokan in MMA is just ONE example of millions of Shotokan Karatekas. Where are the rest? Why are all fighters adopting Muay Thai, Boxing, Kickboxing for their stand-up? Because it's the most ideal style. And besides, Machida got owned by Jones n Rua.
Good for you. See if your belts matter for shit in the cage or in the streets against experienced fighters. Go join the UFC or Lumpinee Stadium like the Kyokushin fighters do. You think Muay Thai, Boxing, don't have "control"? We don't punch bags 24/7. We work timing, distance, coordination, flexibility, speed, etc while having full contact sparring and experience against RESISTING opponent, not like this point karate shit you see on this video at 8:45.
HAHAHAHAHAHA, Okinawa is the birthplace of MMA? Please tell me you're joking. If anything, that credit goes to Jiujitsu since Helio Gracie created UFC with influence of BJJ that roots back to Judo and Jiujitsu. Japanese Pancrase created MMA based on Pankration which dates back Ancient Greece used by Spartans. Okinawan Karate was created 1600 by old farts of the islands that has no ground fighting skills and techniques. How can it be MMA when it has no ground fighting skills?
An Open Tournament is free-style and was open to any and ALL styles or systems of fighting. Essentially the predecessor to you beloved MMA. I am not judging not dogging on any fighter involved nor the orginization, What I am simply saying is that Mixed Martial Arts has been around for much longer than you realize, as little as 100yrs ago fighters fought to the death, without the glory of cameras, a ring, a referee, or Doctors readily available. Okinawa is the birthplace of MMA, like it or not.
You seem to know your history but I must say, it is somewhat flawed. First and foremost Hanshi Shimabukuro is not teaching kata in this video. What he is teaching is Bunkai or application of a kata technique. AND point or sport Karatedo did NOT originate in Okinawa but was adopted by the mainland Japanese after Funakoshi Sensei introduced karatedo to the mainland. My friend I HAVE fought FULL-CONTACT no points bullshit while I was in Japan, Korea, Okinawa, Japan and Hawaii. Thank you.
People with the mindset about martial arts that you have don't understand the true spirit of it. There is a difference between sports martial arts and other types. No one type is better than the other, it is all about how the practitioner is able to use it. I have boxed, I hold a Black Belt in Tang Soo Do, have done a lot of full contact and currently practice Kung Fu, You may think styles LIKE kung fu or shorin ryu are "dancy" but the control takes more practice to master than power.
Don't think that you can become like Machida if you train Shotokan. Machida doesn't train shotokan at all. It's more of publicity using his base art. You don't see him punching around makiwara boards. He uses modern fighting techniques, modern equipments, and fights full contact, trains at BlackHouse gym utilizing boxing and muay thai techniques. Anderson Silva, Benson Henderson, trained in TKD as their base but do you think they would be champs if they relied on TKD for stand-up?
Kyokushin heavily developed once they started sparring with Muay Thai fighters. Their training curriculum heavily improved. It doesn't matter what previous styles were. Since Karate has its roots from Chinese martial arts that roots to India, does that mean Indian martial art is deadliest art and effective while Karate is watered down art? Mas Oyama trained Goju Ryu and Shotokan but it wasn't enough, so he trained by himself and created his own style called Kyokushin.
Joe Lewis? He's just as overrated as Bruce Lee. Kickboxing champion back in 1970s don't mean jack shit. Why? Because it barely formed. His record is irrelevant because if you're truly a fighter who practice in combat sports and arts I've mentioned, then you would know that record doesn't really speak much. It's quality of the fighters he has fought. He didn't fight against Muay Thai kickboxers during his time. During his time, Kyokushin Karatekas such as Tadashi Nakamura fought against thais.
I have mixed reviews on TKD. But I respect TKD more than Okinawan Karate styles. Why? Because TKD is semi-full contact. It's not a reliable stand-up style but it's a good base art to practice before pursuing and cross-training into kickboxing-type for stand-up. You develop kicking nature, flexibility of kicking, and versatility. Cung Le, Anthony Pettis, Anderson Silva, Cro Cop, Benson Henderson, all have black belts in TKD before cross-training and pursuing to other styles.
Do you know why most fighters use BJJ and Judo over Japanese Jiujitsu? Because Those two styles are synthesized and put into full contact practice. Japanese Jiujitsu said the same shit against Judo to Jigoro Kano. But in 1886, when Tokyo Police Department put two arts to the test to determine which style to adopt, they made top 15 Japanese Jiujitsu fighters fight against Kano's top 15 Judo fighters, Judo crushed Japanese Jiujitsu 12 out of 15 times, 1 tie, and 2 losses.
Lyoto Machida is a BJJ black belt who trained BJJ since his childhood, and was a sumo champion, and he trains full contact at BlackHouse gym with Anderson Silva, Minotauro, JDS, etc. Go look up his training. He trains kickboxing and muay thai and majority of his workout is boxing and muay thai. So it beats the purpose of training Shotokan. But even if his success of stand-up fighting style were to be Shotokan, that's barely one example out of millions of shotokan karateka.
PPL here think MMA is a style but no, MMA is an art of fighting in general. That's why it's called MIXED MARTIAL ARTS. You're using whatever you can to win. There's no best or correct martial art formula to use. It's a place where martial arts can get tested out. Arts that are effective as you described, Kyokushin, Judo, TKD, Sanshou, Shuai Jiao, are all arts that have proven themselves effective in the world of MMA or against arts heavily used in MMA. Wing Chun, Aikido, Okinawan don't work.
Wing Chun has no evidence of their effectiveness. Anyone can talk out of their ass of its effectiveness. Streets of Hong Kong = scrawny thugs with no fighting experience. Fight against experienced martial artists and fighters and you'll see that Wing Chun fair poorly, whether it be out in the streets or in full contact competitions. JKD is modernized version of WC and adopts various arts but guess what? It's philosophy is MMA.
You are correct in what you say about karate. I have been teaching it for many years. However, kata can be used in real situation. It is more difficult to use it in its purist form but the foundations and principles remain the same. Kata = alphabet. Application = the way you arrange the letters to make words. Learn to use kata to help your self defence. Not kata for kata sake. That is art without martial my friend. RESPECT
@EdDy A few questions to u. Do u know that Jigoro Kano learnt many dangerous throws from Karate masters like Gichin Funakoshi which cannot be used in a ring. Taekwondo has a lot of karate in it (please read about it's founders). Traditional kyokushin karate techniques have a lot of similarities to seibukan techniques. Shuai Jiao is similar to tegumi which many okinawan karate masters are proficient at. Sanshou is basically kungfu plus boxing,etc, and how can u put down kung fu ?
HAHA, FYI, I'm Asian myself and I train in MUAY THAI, AKA EASTERN Martial Art. Eastern martial arts that have been proven effective such as Judo, Jiujitsu, Taekwondo, Kyokushin Karate, Sanshou, Shuai Jiao, are clever systems that have offered the unique effectiveness to the world of MMA, However, East Asian martial arts also have bullshit arts as well, such as this video aka Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Kung Fu like Wing Chun, etc.
Yes, many great kickboxers such as Andy Hug(Seidokaikan), GSP(Kyokushin Karate), Lyoto Machida(Shotokan) have backgrounds in Japanese Karate, not Okinawan bullshit. But even those fighters heavily adopt boxing, muay thai, kickboxing, bjj, greco-roman wrestling. Andy Hug had hard time defending his face and punching other guy's face, which is why he had to go through boxing boot camp to kill the habit of not punching others face.
this is bullshit...the k1, kyokushinkai kickboxing... these are all symstems for fighting in a ringt with rules for longer than a minute. in self defence, you dont fight 2 minutes, in most cases the fight is over within 5 seconds. and there you must get the speed and the knowledge where to attack with most impact. this is kata, hidden vital points not just sparring to points which are for long fights but not life threatening
@EdDy4RheelZ You whole problem is you don't understand anything about the MA. Naha-Te, Shuri_Te, etc are 600 year old arts. They were formed in a different time during a different style of fighting. The art isn't shit, it just evolved. It's like saying classical guitar is shit because of Eddie Van Halen. These people practice this mostly for the Budo. But most train in other systems. You're lack of respect for anyone else proves you have no experience yourself and are just mimicking.
HAHA, Mas Oyama's Karate is called Kyokushin Karate. It's a full contact karate that doesn't dance around like Shorin-ryu. They seek the ultimate truth as what Kyokushin is about, and they have traveled around the world and sparred against top fighters of different countries. Kyokushin is used in MMA and they're the ones who created K-1. But guess what? They fight like every other kickboxers with slight variations to the rules.
You actually haven't proven anything, just given your opinion. MA's don't actually go around "fighting". It's only in the west we feel the need to pick fights. Karate is for defense. That's why the masters have no need to fee their egos in the ring like you apparently do. And until you train in something else besides kickboxing, I suggest you follow Mas Oyama's advice: Keep your eyes up and your head low. Now, go kick some trees.
LOL, what's the matter? Can't provide a proof of Shorinryu Karateka executing eye/throat/groin strikes in training and real life while disgruntled at my response for providing you proof of MMA(and arts adopted by MMA) effectiveness in streets and wars? FYI, I train Muay Thai but I respect arts that have proven their effectiveness whether it be in the ring or in the streets. Krav Maga is not used in ring but it uses MMA philosophy and is used in the street and has its effectiveness proven.
because if it's on the internet, it's true. looking at your profile, it's clear you are an internet troll. No one really cares about your devotion (probably not training in) to MMA. You are repeating almost for rote the typical MMA party line. You can leave the artists to their art. You have to come on here to make yourself feel better because you lack something. after 25 years in MA, guys like you never change (or train for that matter).
Oh, and if you didn't know, the sports that you look down on bcz of "rules" have all been used in wars also. Boxing and Wrestling have been used in war and it dates back to Mesopotamia, Greece and Roman empires. Muay Thai is used in war against Burma. TKD was used in Korean War. Judo and Jiujitsu was used in wars in Japan by samurais who couldn't strike to kill due to heavy armor. Sambo was used by Red Army of Russia. List goes on. It was used much more than street fights. So quit the bullshit.
MMA stars don't fight out in the streets because why risk their career fighting bums out in the streets? However, there are PLENTY of amateur and non-professional MMA fighters along with combat sport fighters using their arts out in the streets. Go google up BJJ in Street Fight or bjj.org, Kimbo Slice used Boxing out in the streets, Police officer trained in MMA used MMA to defend himself out in the street against a thug "Crazy street fight Cop vs Thug - Cop wins", list goes on.
Here's the problem I have with your comment. Other than the obvious ignorance of the statement, you are assuming a great deal about the "streets". In your scenario, the MMA fighter would have to attack Hanshi unprovoked. And he would have no knowledge of Hanshi's expertise in Karate. So, Hanshi still has the element of surprise. Furthermore, there are no rules so all targets would be available. Finally, Hanshi would most likely maim or kill an attacker as this is what Karate does.
And once again, you've been watching too many Karate Kid movies. You're like the main character who worships Mr.Miyagi. fusei kise? His demonstrations are pathetic. Why are all of your examples full of demonstrations but never real fight or any full contact training? Just corny forms and dance moves. Horrible forms. Shadowboxing beats ALL corny forms and katas.
I never said smaller person cannot take out bigger person. However, if both fighters are equally experienced in fighting, then bigger person will have the advantage by size. And yes, you can accelerate more but unless you're a bullet, it won't give you much advantage. Someone who's heavier also gives them that much protection and bigger reach advantage.
The question is, will you land those eye gouging or knee crushing techniques against experienced fighters? Ever wonder why those fucktarded arts such as Shorin-Ryu and Wing Chun failed in early UFCs or in any cage fight that has no rules? Because practitioners of those arts cannot land them easily against experienced fighters. Even before they attempt them, they massively fail.
You've clearly never fought once in your life or never fought against experienced, resisting fighters out in the streets. While it's most effective to deliver effective strikes and techniques without getting hit, if you are fighting against experienced fighters, you will get hit. That's a basic common sense that kickboxing proved and debunked many nonsense martial arts.
bro u have to show respect in m arts u c karate is an art of body and mind and most martial arts use grappling but now its some kind different so in this case u have to mix it like what mma does .. the whole arts came first from china to japan then to the rest of the world but some of people use grappling and other use fighting..im a kyokushin practitioner ..
Hardcore? Hardcore doing what? Getting punched around by old farts and senseis who have never knocked out any amateur or professional fighter in their lives? Try facing Dan Henderson's or Mike Tyson's punch and then come talk. Those two can knock people out to hospital WITH their gloves. Imagine if done without gloves? :P
Go look up history of kickboxing. It was initially called karate boxing with an intention of putting all karates together to spar and fight each other, by Tatsuo Yamada. But as he observed Muay Thai and various arts and when karate fighters sparred, they started fighting like kickboxers, where they freely punch and kick when put to full contact fight where anything goes.
Finally Ed, if you are into insulting you are nothing but a thug and thugs are easily dispatched. Since the Karate-Ka mostly try to live in peace with people, your comments are unproven at best because you yourself have never attacked one of these black belts to see the results. So just shut up, devote yourself to Muay Thai and leave other artist alone to practice their art.
All of the main Shorin-ryu styles are original Okinawan ones, and they all have different names. They can all be pronounced shorin-ryu in the modern Japanese of Okinawa, but in the older language each is pronounced differently: kobayashi, shobayashi, kobayashi, matsubayashi, sukunaihashi, etc. Derivative styles are only natural in lineages of a martial art that is passed down throughout history. Shorin-ryu is a derivative of Shuri-te and or Tomari-te, which is a blend of Ti and Kenpo (ChuanFa).
I am a Kyokushin Karate player, and I get your point. But usually, full contact isnt allowed because the moves can kill. Back in my white belt days, i got a punch that left me breathless for atleast 5 seconds. I don't see the point of going into tournaments and learn self defense to die in the process, the moves are there to show you how to defend yourself against someone out in the real world. That applies to ALL martial arts, and in-fact, it's NOT about STYLE, it's about YOU,GuessWhoSaidThat
The Seibukan way is one of humility, and Zenpo Shimabukuro Sensei is a very humble and very nice man. In 2008 he was promoted to Judan and given a red belt, but as far as I know, he usually only wears it at special events, promotions, seminars, etc. Most of the time he just wears a black belt with the 3 stripes on each end. Wearing one's red belt around all the time is viewed by some to be a rather ostentatious practice, kinda like showing off your rank, same goes for kyoshi or renshi belt.
Black belt in karate stopped because it does not make sense for real life situation to much work in emptiness in the air like kata..even the bunkai lots of it does not make sense .
I love karate but they need more one to one drills more touch we have to adapt our stance to the situation. Not situation to our stance!!
Sorry just my honest opinion.
There is a LOT of bad shorin-ryu out there. You have to understand that a lot of karate was brought back to the states by marines that had 6 months to a year of training and that's it. Very few of them continued their training and actually learned enough to become very competent. My instructor was one of the few that actually sought out multiple Okinawan masters and continued his education for decades after he left Okinawa. This is the difference. He also had very good well known teachers.
My father and I were trained by ansai useru in the 60's in NY. Very fond memories.
F=M*A
Means that you can fight someone heavier and bigger than you if you can accelerate more.
You simply think martial arts as combat sports.
The only thing that make real difference is your commitment to win. If you need to survive you only need not to be touched and hit in the hardest manner to get the time it suffices to go away.
It doesn't need to be big or tough: you can equally use a straight punch or a finger in the eye. Nothing you can do in any tournament.
You are talking about titles and trophies. I am talking about combat arts designed to keep you alive. I don't care what these ppl accomplished. They won their "titles" against other sport fighters. And just because they won a title doesn't mean they are a master. You really think someone in their 20s or 30s can MASTER an art that quickly? Not unless they were some sort of prodigy and started training at age 5 would that remotely be possible.
Before you start disrespecting ppl and trying to impress us all with your vocabulary, do YOUR homework. Chosin Chibana invented a STYLE of shorin-ryu called kobayashi. Shorin-ryu itself started with a man named Bushi Matsumura who is credited with "Shuri-Te" which his students spread to form the different styles of shorin-ryu. Itosu was a student of Matsumura. Money does not make the world turn, buddy. You think the trials and hardships these old warriors went through was for money?
@EdDy
Maybe u r a good fighter but please don't disrespect these guys, they are real good. How do I know, I've practised this style and checked it in streetfights many years ago (Sorry Sensei), it works and I don't have a black belt. About boxing one shaolin origin exercise to develop speed and muscle power plus the twitch needed for a punch our Sensei taught us is still being used by a western boxing school nearby bcos it's very effective bcos some of our students went there to learn.
Shorin-Ryu is an art and a style, not a fighting system.
For example
If there's a modern deadly technique that no art, style, sport has ever seen, then combat systems will adopt it.
However, arts and styles such as Shorin-Ryu, Wing Chun, won't.
Why? Because they're arts and styles based on ancestors teachings, not based on what's effective and ideal.
I've looked up Machida. He stated that he trains with Muay Thai boxers to prepare himself for what he will face in the octagon, but he never uses it himself. Bleacher Report even posted a breakdown of Machida's style and how it differs from typical MMA fighters. His sideways stances, kicks, footwork, punch delivery, are all typical of Karate, not squared-up like Thai Boxing, which is why he confuses opponents. He is a BJJ blackbelt, but rarely goes to the ground. And I already know about Judo.
shadow boxing could be considered a form, your going through boxing motions, yet fighting no one except the air, the exact complaint you have against kata or forms
Beautiful and powerful okinawan karate style i have ever seen
the music was a strange fit
Okinawans are hardcore when it comes to resistance training and hard body conditioning. Mas Oyama adopted Okinawan training techniques when creating Kyokushin, which is about 40% Shotokan and 60% Goju Ryu. And like I said, old school kickboxing champions Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace were both Shorin Ryu practitioners. And I didn't bring up Japanese Jujutsu at all, but since you did, Kano's Judo students were defeated by the Fusen Ryu jujutsu school, who specialized in newaza. But each to his own
You must also take into consideration the times in which karate was developed. The times the Okinawan ppl lived in were a far cry from the luxuries we are use to today. Their art was made for survival... if they failed this could mean their families or entire village suffered or were killed. They did not play around with their art or make a sport of it. How can you say it is obsolete when it was made for survival in tougher times than we are living in now? Have humans changed that much?
And of course you're right, you need to supplement striking with grappling to be sucessful in MMA. This is why karateka since time immemorial have cross trained in Judo, from karateka/judoka Benny Urquidez, to Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace, who were also collegiate wrestlers. This is nothing new.
I find Shorin-ryu Karate to be the most practical. It means "little man" form and I think it's great for tight spots and just everyday walking down the street stuff. There are also not that many (if any at all) flamboyant kicks, which is where I think a lot of flaws can be found in other forms.
And again, if you're such a bad-ass MT fighter then why are you wasting time trolling around youtube picking fights with total strangers? That's the act of cowardly keyboard warriors who need to compensate for their own insecurities by boasting behind the safety of a PC. Real fighters spend their time training and fighting, not trolling on youtube. You wouldn't need to go around touting the superiority of your style if you actually felt confident about yourself.
Most fighters train in MT because it's the only striking style used in MMA gyms. You won't find a lot of diversity in most MMA gyms these days. But more and more Karateka are entering MMA every year, such as Michael Page and John Makdessi. And Machida did not get "owned" by Jones and Rua. Machida wasn't fighting his best game against Rua, who hasn't won a fight since getting whupped by Jones. And Machida gave Jones a better fight than anyone else in the light heavyweight division.
And yes, I do see that you're an angry person and I doubt very much that it has anything to do with Shorin Ryu, but more with a kind of thug mentality that's all too common these days. Why come to this vid in the first place if that's your attitude? No one forced you here, and no one's "claiming" anything about your sport, whatever that is. You should stick to vids you enjoy rather than going around flexing keyboard warrior muscles and using immature, profane, and homophobic slurs.
Also, calling Okinawan Karate "fraudulet" is also not true. The Japanese would never have adopted it in the first place if they thought that. Judo founder Jigoro Kano was so impressed by Shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi's style that he invited him to give demos at the Kodokan. Okinawan Goju Ryu was officially considered Budo by the Japanese in 1933. And U.S. Army Ranger combatatives expert Matt Larsen trained in Shorin Ryu and Shotokan as well as Judo, and incorporated it into his system.
I'm sorry, but saying that Machida doesn't train in Shotokan at all is just plain nonsense. Machida has said repeatedly that his style is Machida karate, not Muay thai, and anyone(especially MMA journalists) can see that his stand up does not resemble Muay Thai at all. He's stated that he trains with Thai boxers to prepare for what he'll face in the ring, just as Ryan Bader trained against a Karate specialist to prepare for Machida. I will send the the Bleacher Report article on him.
Mas Oyama was Korean, and as such would never have been a Kamikaze pilot. And to say that his success had very little to do with Shotokan and Goju Ryu is like saying he made Kyokushin up out of thin air, which is not the case. When Mas Oyama's Kyokushin fighters beat the Thai Boxers in 1964 it was before they had ever fought against Thai boxers at all. And I mentioned Machida and Neil Grove using Shotokan and Goju Ryu in MMA and have won fights by knockout. You seem quite an angry person.
Sorry, but Okinawan Karate was adopted by the WWII marines and soldiers stationed in Okinawa who brought these arts back to the USA. Hardened combat vets wouldn't have adopted a fighting style that wasn't effective. I've heard people say the exact opposit;, that except for Kyokushin, Japanese Karate watered down the art for sport. Machida practices the original Shotokan created by Funakoshi, not the JKA version. And TKD has become one of the most riduculed MA in the world since the Olympics.
everyones balance, skills, assets are different. this ''nitpicking'' is inappropriate as done here. no one fights this way. i after being student since 1968 this way of instruction leaves me confused
Ok the tenth dan red belt does not symbolize 50 years of training. Eizo Shimabukoru achieved tenth dan at the age of 35. In fact on all certificates of the Okinawan karate rendokan got tenth degree you will find his name and stamp. Red belt signifies understanding and is awarded at ninth dan. My instructor returned from Okinawa in April with his ninth dan and a red belt. Besides belts just make identifying a teacher easier. These people would still be masters no matter if they wore a belt
Just as there are different styles with karate, there are also different branches within one style. Perhaps this gentleman's branch of Shorin-Ryu does not have the redbelt. Or, perhaps they give him the option of wearing either belt. Furthermore, can any branch of karate today truly call itself original? There are many kata and practices done in the old beginnings that are no longer done. Even honored styles like Goju and Uechi-Ryu do at least a few things differently than when they began.
style doesnt matter, its the person. for instance, i could beat you down with just wrestling, or just judo, or boxing, or even taekwondo for that matter. it doesnt really matter what i would use. i would still use feints, bait and trap and use superior footwork, speed and power. i like almost every style of karate, including kyokushin(its prolly my favorite). the fact of the matter is style doesnt matter, it all boils down to how well you can use your technique against an opponent.
Kyokushin is just filtered, synthesized Karate. They extracted useful elements of karate, got rid of majority of Karate, while creating full contact training, something okinawans never had in their history. Kyokushin developed and their training curriculum changed and improved once they sparred and fought with Muay Thai fighters as they learned the importance of what is required to become a skilled fighter.
I would love you to say this in front of GSP and challenge him to a fight. Kyokushin has way more accomplishment than any of Okinawan arts while being combat effective. Kyokushin enter various matches and challenges, whether it be MMA, K-1, Muay Thai, etc. TRUE fighters don't make excuses for their failure to accomplish challenges. TRUE fighters adapt and utilize their techniques and skills to seek challenges. Okinawan Karate is just as gay as Kung Fu.
The ridiculously long, deep stances of Jap Karate are not combat effective. There is a fine balance between being mobile and having balance. These stances may have a lot of balance but have zero mobility. If you can't jump in the stance you're in then it is not a good stance. Also, Japan altered karate because it was too dangerous for school children. The primary aim of adopting karate was for their school curiculum. I can guarantee you've NEVER seen real Okinawan karate.
And too bad their art failed to do their job because they got fucked over, dicked down by Japanese samurais and Japan took over Okinawa. Japan synthesized and refined their art, created Kyokushin and offsprings. Ever wonder why Kyokushin is the only successful Karate of all Karate styles? Because they fight full contact, challenge themselves not only through conditioning but by sparring and fighting other styles instead of dancing around all day doing corny forms 24/7.
At least we have one thing in common. We both know that doing 10-20 punches a second isn't worth jack shit. It was to prove carlo orecchia's comment flawed where he only talks about acceleration. Wing Chun is extremely flawed art where they focus on acceleration and speed of attacks just because of f=ma but as you and i pointed out, 10-20 worthless speedy punches don't mean jack shit.
10-20 punches a second my ass. That would be more than a world record. Besides who gives a shit if you can punch that fast. A real martial art is about one punch and the guy is down. If I have to throw 10 punches or even 3 punches I am doing something wrong. MMA's strategy is go in for some punishment, hug each other for a min and then back off. Repeat. Go to the ground and hope someone taps out. If not pray that you outlast the guy because you're in better shape. What a joke.
This is the only power a boxer knows how to generate is through his hip. A karate man learns to generate many kinds of power- upward power, downward power, forward power, and using the entire body to hit, not just hips or the arms. It is a progressive thing and takes time to develop. Anybody can learn to "use their hip" to hit with. And it doesn't do much good to develop a hard hitting punch if you don't have a fighting strategy to defeat your opponent with. You're too worried about muscles.
Look, for once I will agree with you. There is a lot of bad traditional arts out there. But just because you haven't seen a good traditional art that works doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Do you honestly believe the masters of old resembled anything like MMA? And I really hope you're not going to argue that these old guys didn't know what they were doing, because it's a historical fact that they were feared and respected by many.
However, Boxing hooks utilize every part of your body by momentum created from footwork, pivot of hips, angle of the punch, which generates more force due to its distance that gives lot of room to create higher acceleration while creating higher mass by utilizing your body to increase mass of your attack efficiently within your attacks. It may be slightly slower than wing chun straight punches or karate punches but it's sure as hell more effective and deadly.
Just because you can accelerate fast doesn't mean you'll utilize the mass efficiently. There are many variables that defies your flawed logic of acceleration. For example, look at wing chun. They have straight punches that can throw 10-20 punches within a second. Does that mean they're generating the force of their mass times acceleration? No. They're only generation the mass of their forearms and their knuckles, which is extremely weak.
I'm done with this conversation. You don't seem to get it nor will you ever. That's ok, your loss, my gain. I'll continue doing what I know to be true, because it works and has worked time and time again. I can't tell you how many "tough guys" like you that do MMA come into our dojo all cocky and then end up eating concrete. MMA is a short cut for those who don't want to put the time and effort in to learn a real martial art. MMA is an assembly line for cranking out 1/2 ass MA record time.
Lastly, the kata is abstract. You can't "do" a kata on someone. The kata is like an encyclopedia of fighting. Your brain will pull what it needs when it needs it. You learn not to rely on your own strength or ability but what the kata has taught you. So in real fighting kata is there, it just doesn't look the same as when someone is formally doing it. Kata is the best kept secret that's right in front of everyone's eyes.
MMA uses weight classes because even an "experienced" fighter in a lower weight class would get beat up by a bigger guy. MMA, krav maga, systema, none of those guys do kata, and it's sad because they don't realize what they're missing out on. Sad part is most ppl don't understand the kata and how to apply it properly. If that's the case, then it's a waste of time. But for those who do truly understand it, it is what transforms a MA into an elite fighter.
Alright, for the record I am 30 years old, so you can quit calling me a kid. I have been a martial artist for 20 years now and I know what I'm talking about. MMA did not re-invent the wheel. Where do you think MMA got there "stuff" from? You are looking at kata too literally. Kata is what gives you the ability to become better than your own abilities. The kata does the technique for you, not the other way around. Kata and real fighting are two different things.
MMA is a philosophy of mixing martial arts that consists of stand-up and ground fighting to become a well rounded fighter. UFC, Strikeforce, PRIDE are MMA in sport form where it proves who's the best bare handed fighter in 1 on 1 scenario. However, MMA used towards street application and survival are combat systems such as Krav Maga, Systema, Marine Corps, military combat systems, etc that uses MMA modern philosophy. They don't dance around or do corny forms like shorin-ryu or wing chun.
Titles and trophies at a professional level within the art or sport proves their mastery of their discipline. Nobody said that their accomplishment in their discipline proves them as a best fighter. It was to prove that people who mastered their art joined MMA because there's no future and revenue for them unless they come from professional boxing background. It clearly disputes your statement of "jack of all trades, masters of none". which you cannot accept since you're stuck in ur karate world
Weight classes exist because among experienced, professional fighters, weight gives people advantage. Weight classes is to get rid of that natural advantage. 140lb experienced, skilled fighter would be able to kick 220llb inexperienced, dull fighter's ass. But if that 220lb fighter becomes experienced and skilled as equally as 140lb, then 220lb will have advantage. You clearly are a kid who has no common sense.
And quit pretending you know who I am. Believe me, I'd love to show your MMA ass a thing or two. But that's not possible over the internet. You don't know the difference between a combat art and a sport art. You keep calling MMA a combat art, but if you truly saw a combat art you would know that not to be the truth. A combat art does not put on gloves and bounce around for 3 mins. Why do you think going to the ground is a good idea? That just means you can't fight on your feet.
Your problem is you keep focusing on physical strength and athletic ability. Of course it is at its peak during the 20s-early 40s. No one is denying that. Why is it that MMA and UFC utilize weight categories? Is it because a 140 lb guy would get whooped by a 220 lb guy? Yeah he would probably get his ass kicked if he went by UFC rules. I don't care how "experienced" someone is... If I take his eye or his knee he is going down, I don't care who he is, or how big he is.
You base that on what? Personal experience? I'll be the 1st to admit there is a LOT of bad shorin-ryu out there. Not just that, but bad TKD, kung fu, you name it. But that doesn't mean this applies to everyone. There are guys out there who know what they're doing. And I'd love to see you mouth off at one of these guys that do, cuz you'd be on the ground and you wouldn't be getting up for "round 2."
Masters? Are you kidding me? Most of these guys are in their 20s and 30s!! You must really think highly of yourself and MMA. And you keep talking about "experienced" fighers like that can't apply to someone who doesn't train MMA. I myself am an "experienced" fighter and I've met a lot of ppl in my time who are experienced, and quite frankly could whoop any MMA dude I've ever seen. You can keep on thinking that MMA is the best things since sliced bread... I dont really care. Your loss.
And you've clearly never seen a real combat art that actually has a strategy. The MMA strategy, or lack thereof, is get in there and duke it out. Of course you're going to get hit if that's your strategy. Not saying a good karate man can't get hit, but he puts himself in a position to where he has the advantage. And who said karate ka don't condition themselves? You've obviously never heard of kyotiate training. Lots of hard work and conditioning... don't get confused here.
I've proven you wrong at every aspect of your argument. Love how people say "jack of all trades, masters of none". Do you even know why these fighters fight in UFC or MMA? Because they've proven themselves as masters of their art and proven enough that they have mastery of the art or sport they practiced in but there's no money and revenue for them. So they decide to join MMA since it provides revenue but at the same time, learn new art or sport that can supplement their weakness.
I don't care what fighters you consider to be "accomplished." Any fool can pick up a tv remote and turn it to UFC and watch MMA. This is how a typical fight goes... the two fighters start out pecking at each other with jabs. Everyone's bored. Uh oh here comes an attempted shin kick. More boredom. And then here comes the tackle. Both go to the ground and then we're in a borderline homosexual wrestling match for the next 5-10 mins until someone "taps out."
Combat systems such as Krav Maga, Systema adopt various effective techniques from various arts and styles. Creator of Krav Maga Imi Lichtenfeld was an amateur boxer and wrestler. He tweaked his boxing and wrestling skills towards street usage to defend the Jewish community. As Israel was found, they adopted various techniques like Muay Thai elbow and kneeing techniques, as well as limited BJJ just enough to learn to stand on ur feet and scramble out of the ground if ever taken to it.
Tatsuo Yamada was influenced from watching Boxing and Muay Thai. Muay Thai was formed from Muay Boran fighters fighting each other. Tatsuo Yamada decided to do the same thing and put two Karate fighters to fight against each other. But guess what? When they fought, they realized lot of the stuff they trained was not even being used and they were just boxing and kicking horribly. They realized they wasted their lives practicing nonsense and decided to train fighting techniques directly.
Hidehiko Yoshida - Olympics Judo Gold Medalist
Brock Lesnar - NCAA Greco-Roman Wrestling Champion
Cro Cop, Alistair Overeem - K-1 Kickboxing Champions
Cung Le - Sanshou champion
Ray Mercer and James Toney - WBO and IBF champion
GSP - Kyokushin karateka 3rd degree black belt
Anthony Pettis - TKD 3rd degree black belt
Rulon Gardner - Olympics Greco-Roman Wrestling Gold Medalist
Ronda Rousey - First female American Judo medalist
List goes on
Your knowledge fails at every level.
Maybe it's because we're focusing on how not to get hit. All the monkeys out there jumping on the MMA bandwagon have to condition to take hits because that's all they know. And honestly in the street you don't want to risk taking a bunch of hits, cuz one poke with a knife and you're done. You don't see the value in kata because you don't understand it. You've never shorin-ryu, period dot. At least not real shorin-ryu. It's not as common as you think it is. Neither is any real MA.
Please just stop. You don't know what you're talking about. The samurai's didn't practice jiu-jitsu to "win wars." Yeah because in the middle of a sword fight they are going to the ground and applying submissions right? Same with the Spartans. Pankration was more of a Greek wrestling art. But do you think these guys were wrestling with their enemies? There's no time for that. Their art had to fast and deadly. You are trying to validate MMA but doing a crappy job at it.
Yeah there are some karate masters out there that did charge and made a business out of it, but shit they have families they have to support. MMA, UFC, whatever you want to call it all the fighters on there fight a sport fighting art. The word MMA means mixed which basically equals "jack of all trades, master of none." Not a single MMA fighter has truly mastered any one of the martial arts they are claiming to study.
You think the sport fighting arts are not legitimate combat art? Boxing dates back to bare knuckle fighting, Wrestling dates back to Spartans where they used pankration in the war to win fights. BJJ and Judo roots back to Jiujitsu where the Samurais have used to win wars. Muay Thai is mixture of Boxing and Muay Boran, an art that dates back and was used in the war against Burma when they were in environment weapons can't be used or war condition didn't allow them to use weapons.
Chosin Chibana did not invent shorin ryu. You want to talk about money what do you think the UFC is about? It's all about promotions and making money, just like boxing. UFC is a sport fighting art. Don't even try to compare it to a legitimate combat art. It attracts the best fighters and coaches in comparison to what? You can't re-invent the wheel. UFC is not some godsend that all the sudden has discovered the secret to how to fight. In fact they do a pretty awful job at it.
Again karate is deadly effective, but not everyone is qualified to teach karate. A good instructor will teach you how to defend yourself without the need for strength. How are you going to sit here and say that taking steroids and other drugs gives an advantage over "normal" people? You think some juiced up dude would stand a chance against some of the old gray karate masters out there? Yeah right. It's not about muscles at all.
What? Are you high? Of course it is a fighting system, but it all depends on who is teaching it. If you are basing shorin ryu off of this video then no wonder you think what you think. Bushi Matsumura, one of the greatest warriors on Okinawa, founded what was to be Shorin-Ryu. Shorin-ryu lineage influenced what it now Shotokan. So how are you going to say it doesn't teach how to fight? Let me tell you, if/when you see REAL shorin-ryu you won't be saying what you're saying.
You talk as if Shorin-Ryu is the only art that teaches how to fight. And who's talking about steroids and hormones? And based on training curriculum of Shorin-Ryu, it doesn't really teach how to fight. It's more of art, not a fighting system. None of the stuff in this video attribute to fighting effectively against resisting fighters. So your argument fails. Shotokan is still way more respectable than Shorin-Ryu. Machida himself would crush all Shorin-Ryu fighters in 1 on 1 street fight.
And same can be said for Shorin-Ryu as well. Shorin-Ryu was a cash factory for Choshin Chibana. Money makes the world turn, buddy. Right now, UFC, MMA, K-1, or any full contact competitions have positioned themselves to attract the best fighters and best coaches around the world. Even guys like Steven Seagal, Aikido 8th degree black belt, is trying to position himself as a trainer although I don't like him.
ok, regarding the Machida debate. I'll admit that I was wrong about me saying Machida doesn't use Shotokan and that it's just publicity thing. You debate with strong references, so I'll give you that. But as I've mentioned before, Machida using Shotokan in MMA is just ONE example of millions of Shotokan Karatekas. Where are the rest? Why are all fighters adopting Muay Thai, Boxing, Kickboxing for their stand-up? Because it's the most ideal style. And besides, Machida got owned by Jones n Rua.
Good for you. See if your belts matter for shit in the cage or in the streets against experienced fighters. Go join the UFC or Lumpinee Stadium like the Kyokushin fighters do. You think Muay Thai, Boxing, don't have "control"? We don't punch bags 24/7. We work timing, distance, coordination, flexibility, speed, etc while having full contact sparring and experience against RESISTING opponent, not like this point karate shit you see on this video at 8:45.
HAHAHAHAHAHA, Okinawa is the birthplace of MMA? Please tell me you're joking. If anything, that credit goes to Jiujitsu since Helio Gracie created UFC with influence of BJJ that roots back to Judo and Jiujitsu. Japanese Pancrase created MMA based on Pankration which dates back Ancient Greece used by Spartans. Okinawan Karate was created 1600 by old farts of the islands that has no ground fighting skills and techniques. How can it be MMA when it has no ground fighting skills?
An Open Tournament is free-style and was open to any and ALL styles or systems of fighting. Essentially the predecessor to you beloved MMA. I am not judging not dogging on any fighter involved nor the orginization, What I am simply saying is that Mixed Martial Arts has been around for much longer than you realize, as little as 100yrs ago fighters fought to the death, without the glory of cameras, a ring, a referee, or Doctors readily available. Okinawa is the birthplace of MMA, like it or not.
You seem to know your history but I must say, it is somewhat flawed. First and foremost Hanshi Shimabukuro is not teaching kata in this video. What he is teaching is Bunkai or application of a kata technique. AND point or sport Karatedo did NOT originate in Okinawa but was adopted by the mainland Japanese after Funakoshi Sensei introduced karatedo to the mainland. My friend I HAVE fought FULL-CONTACT no points bullshit while I was in Japan, Korea, Okinawa, Japan and Hawaii. Thank you.
People with the mindset about martial arts that you have don't understand the true spirit of it. There is a difference between sports martial arts and other types. No one type is better than the other, it is all about how the practitioner is able to use it. I have boxed, I hold a Black Belt in Tang Soo Do, have done a lot of full contact and currently practice Kung Fu, You may think styles LIKE kung fu or shorin ryu are "dancy" but the control takes more practice to master than power.
Don't think that you can become like Machida if you train Shotokan. Machida doesn't train shotokan at all. It's more of publicity using his base art. You don't see him punching around makiwara boards. He uses modern fighting techniques, modern equipments, and fights full contact, trains at BlackHouse gym utilizing boxing and muay thai techniques. Anderson Silva, Benson Henderson, trained in TKD as their base but do you think they would be champs if they relied on TKD for stand-up?
Kyokushin heavily developed once they started sparring with Muay Thai fighters. Their training curriculum heavily improved. It doesn't matter what previous styles were. Since Karate has its roots from Chinese martial arts that roots to India, does that mean Indian martial art is deadliest art and effective while Karate is watered down art? Mas Oyama trained Goju Ryu and Shotokan but it wasn't enough, so he trained by himself and created his own style called Kyokushin.
Joe Lewis? He's just as overrated as Bruce Lee. Kickboxing champion back in 1970s don't mean jack shit. Why? Because it barely formed. His record is irrelevant because if you're truly a fighter who practice in combat sports and arts I've mentioned, then you would know that record doesn't really speak much. It's quality of the fighters he has fought. He didn't fight against Muay Thai kickboxers during his time. During his time, Kyokushin Karatekas such as Tadashi Nakamura fought against thais.
I have mixed reviews on TKD. But I respect TKD more than Okinawan Karate styles. Why? Because TKD is semi-full contact. It's not a reliable stand-up style but it's a good base art to practice before pursuing and cross-training into kickboxing-type for stand-up. You develop kicking nature, flexibility of kicking, and versatility. Cung Le, Anthony Pettis, Anderson Silva, Cro Cop, Benson Henderson, all have black belts in TKD before cross-training and pursuing to other styles.
Do you know why most fighters use BJJ and Judo over Japanese Jiujitsu? Because Those two styles are synthesized and put into full contact practice. Japanese Jiujitsu said the same shit against Judo to Jigoro Kano. But in 1886, when Tokyo Police Department put two arts to the test to determine which style to adopt, they made top 15 Japanese Jiujitsu fighters fight against Kano's top 15 Judo fighters, Judo crushed Japanese Jiujitsu 12 out of 15 times, 1 tie, and 2 losses.
Lyoto Machida is a BJJ black belt who trained BJJ since his childhood, and was a sumo champion, and he trains full contact at BlackHouse gym with Anderson Silva, Minotauro, JDS, etc. Go look up his training. He trains kickboxing and muay thai and majority of his workout is boxing and muay thai. So it beats the purpose of training Shotokan. But even if his success of stand-up fighting style were to be Shotokan, that's barely one example out of millions of shotokan karateka.
PPL here think MMA is a style but no, MMA is an art of fighting in general. That's why it's called MIXED MARTIAL ARTS. You're using whatever you can to win. There's no best or correct martial art formula to use. It's a place where martial arts can get tested out. Arts that are effective as you described, Kyokushin, Judo, TKD, Sanshou, Shuai Jiao, are all arts that have proven themselves effective in the world of MMA or against arts heavily used in MMA. Wing Chun, Aikido, Okinawan don't work.
Wing Chun has no evidence of their effectiveness. Anyone can talk out of their ass of its effectiveness. Streets of Hong Kong = scrawny thugs with no fighting experience. Fight against experienced martial artists and fighters and you'll see that Wing Chun fair poorly, whether it be out in the streets or in full contact competitions. JKD is modernized version of WC and adopts various arts but guess what? It's philosophy is MMA.
You are correct in what you say about karate. I have been teaching it for many years. However, kata can be used in real situation. It is more difficult to use it in its purist form but the foundations and principles remain the same. Kata = alphabet. Application = the way you arrange the letters to make words. Learn to use kata to help your self defence. Not kata for kata sake. That is art without martial my friend. RESPECT
@EdDy
A few questions to u. Do u know that Jigoro Kano learnt many dangerous throws from Karate masters like Gichin Funakoshi which cannot be used in a ring. Taekwondo has a lot of karate in it (please read about it's founders). Traditional kyokushin karate techniques have a lot of similarities to seibukan techniques. Shuai Jiao is similar to tegumi which many okinawan karate masters are proficient at. Sanshou is basically kungfu plus boxing,etc, and how can u put down kung fu ?
HAHA, FYI, I'm Asian myself and I train in MUAY THAI, AKA EASTERN Martial Art. Eastern martial arts that have been proven effective such as Judo, Jiujitsu, Taekwondo, Kyokushin Karate, Sanshou, Shuai Jiao, are clever systems that have offered the unique effectiveness to the world of MMA, However, East Asian martial arts also have bullshit arts as well, such as this video aka Okinawan Karate, Aikido, Kung Fu like Wing Chun, etc.
Yes, many great kickboxers such as Andy Hug(Seidokaikan), GSP(Kyokushin Karate), Lyoto Machida(Shotokan) have backgrounds in Japanese Karate, not Okinawan bullshit. But even those fighters heavily adopt boxing, muay thai, kickboxing, bjj, greco-roman wrestling. Andy Hug had hard time defending his face and punching other guy's face, which is why he had to go through boxing boot camp to kill the habit of not punching others face.
this is bullshit...the k1, kyokushinkai kickboxing... these are all symstems for fighting in a ringt with rules for longer than a minute. in self defence, you dont fight 2 minutes, in most cases the fight is over within 5 seconds. and there you must get the speed and the knowledge where to attack with most impact. this is kata, hidden vital points not just sparring to points which are for long fights but not life threatening
@EdDy4RheelZ You whole problem is you don't understand anything about the MA. Naha-Te, Shuri_Te, etc are 600 year old arts. They were formed in a different time during a different style of fighting. The art isn't shit, it just evolved. It's like saying classical guitar is shit because of Eddie Van Halen. These people practice this mostly for the Budo. But most train in other systems. You're lack of respect for anyone else proves you have no experience yourself and are just mimicking.
HAHA, Mas Oyama's Karate is called Kyokushin Karate. It's a full contact karate that doesn't dance around like Shorin-ryu. They seek the ultimate truth as what Kyokushin is about, and they have traveled around the world and sparred against top fighters of different countries. Kyokushin is used in MMA and they're the ones who created K-1. But guess what? They fight like every other kickboxers with slight variations to the rules.
You actually haven't proven anything, just given your opinion. MA's don't actually go around "fighting". It's only in the west we feel the need to pick fights. Karate is for defense. That's why the masters have no need to fee their egos in the ring like you apparently do. And until you train in something else besides kickboxing, I suggest you follow Mas Oyama's advice: Keep your eyes up and your head low. Now, go kick some trees.
LOL, what's the matter? Can't provide a proof of Shorinryu Karateka executing eye/throat/groin strikes in training and real life while disgruntled at my response for providing you proof of MMA(and arts adopted by MMA) effectiveness in streets and wars? FYI, I train Muay Thai but I respect arts that have proven their effectiveness whether it be in the ring or in the streets. Krav Maga is not used in ring but it uses MMA philosophy and is used in the street and has its effectiveness proven.
because if it's on the internet, it's true. looking at your profile, it's clear you are an internet troll. No one really cares about your devotion (probably not training in) to MMA. You are repeating almost for rote the typical MMA party line. You can leave the artists to their art. You have to come on here to make yourself feel better because you lack something. after 25 years in MA, guys like you never change (or train for that matter).
Oh, and if you didn't know, the sports that you look down on bcz of "rules" have all been used in wars also. Boxing and Wrestling have been used in war and it dates back to Mesopotamia, Greece and Roman empires. Muay Thai is used in war against Burma. TKD was used in Korean War. Judo and Jiujitsu was used in wars in Japan by samurais who couldn't strike to kill due to heavy armor. Sambo was used by Red Army of Russia. List goes on. It was used much more than street fights. So quit the bullshit.
MMA stars don't fight out in the streets because why risk their career fighting bums out in the streets? However, there are PLENTY of amateur and non-professional MMA fighters along with combat sport fighters using their arts out in the streets. Go google up BJJ in Street Fight or bjj.org, Kimbo Slice used Boxing out in the streets, Police officer trained in MMA used MMA to defend himself out in the street against a thug "Crazy street fight Cop vs Thug - Cop wins", list goes on.
Here's the problem I have with your comment. Other than the obvious ignorance of the statement, you are assuming a great deal about the "streets". In your scenario, the MMA fighter would have to attack Hanshi unprovoked. And he would have no knowledge of Hanshi's expertise in Karate. So, Hanshi still has the element of surprise. Furthermore, there are no rules so all targets would be available. Finally, Hanshi would most likely maim or kill an attacker as this is what Karate does.
And once again, you've been watching too many Karate Kid movies. You're like the main character who worships Mr.Miyagi. fusei kise? His demonstrations are pathetic. Why are all of your examples full of demonstrations but never real fight or any full contact training? Just corny forms and dance moves. Horrible forms. Shadowboxing beats ALL corny forms and katas.
I never said smaller person cannot take out bigger person. However, if both fighters are equally experienced in fighting, then bigger person will have the advantage by size. And yes, you can accelerate more but unless you're a bullet, it won't give you much advantage. Someone who's heavier also gives them that much protection and bigger reach advantage.
The question is, will you land those eye gouging or knee crushing techniques against experienced fighters? Ever wonder why those fucktarded arts such as Shorin-Ryu and Wing Chun failed in early UFCs or in any cage fight that has no rules? Because practitioners of those arts cannot land them easily against experienced fighters. Even before they attempt them, they massively fail.
You've clearly never fought once in your life or never fought against experienced, resisting fighters out in the streets. While it's most effective to deliver effective strikes and techniques without getting hit, if you are fighting against experienced fighters, you will get hit. That's a basic common sense that kickboxing proved and debunked many nonsense martial arts.
bro u have to show respect in m arts u c karate is an art of body and mind and most martial arts use grappling but now its some kind different so in this case u have to mix it like what mma does .. the whole arts came first from china to japan then to the rest of the world but some of people use grappling and other use fighting..im a kyokushin practitioner ..
Hardcore? Hardcore doing what? Getting punched around by old farts and senseis who have never knocked out any amateur or professional fighter in their lives? Try facing Dan Henderson's or Mike Tyson's punch and then come talk. Those two can knock people out to hospital WITH their gloves. Imagine if done without gloves? :P
Go look up history of kickboxing. It was initially called karate boxing with an intention of putting all karates together to spar and fight each other, by Tatsuo Yamada. But as he observed Muay Thai and various arts and when karate fighters sparred, they started fighting like kickboxers, where they freely punch and kick when put to full contact fight where anything goes.
Finally Ed, if you are into insulting you are nothing but a thug and thugs are easily dispatched. Since the Karate-Ka mostly try to live in peace with people, your comments are unproven at best because you yourself have never attacked one of these black belts to see the results. So just shut up, devote yourself to Muay Thai and leave other artist alone to practice their art.