Yes, if you walk up to a stranger and tell them, I had four brothers. One died suddenly from an unexpected medical ailment, and the other three all killed themselves in a span of six years. That person would probably find it hard to believe. An overwhelming amount of tragedy.
@@mikelachey824 Chris was the youngest dude. Jack Jr was the eldest bro. I was mad they left Chris out, I understand why it was done but ita wrong hes not even mentioned. The photo of the family on the wall never made sense with him missing from it so he should have at least been on that.
You want a movie that shows an exact story exactly how it took place, watch documentaries. This film did an excellent job telling their story while making it entertaining as well
EXACTTTLY!! I'm a hardcore wrestling fan. I watch everything. From now days, and back then. And yes... things are wrong... and yes timelines are wrong... But at the same time... Thats EVERY movie like this. They hollywood them up some to make them more watchable for any audience. Still was a very cool movie , and very fun seeing wrestlers like The Freebirds, and Harley Race brought to life again for this movie. Still very worth the watch.
@@scottsetzke7967 It's a movie, relax. Jeremy allen white did not look exactly like kerry but he done a great job acting like kerry. He got his body language and the way he walked and moved was so much like kerry. He's an actor. there are no actors that look like kerry and have the same build as him lol, he done a great job tho
Kevin said he stopped believing in the curse when he tried to get arrested and kill himself. He robbed what I believe was a gun store if I’m remembering what he said correctly. The guy he was robbing told him he loved him. He said that he broke down in tears and they all prayed together after that. He said,” it was a good day for Texas.” He decided that day to get on with his life. He was a great wrestler, but more so, he’s a great man.
I don’t care what they got wrong. I know the story. I adore the Von Erich’s. Kevin is a hero to me. We don’t watch movies to get the actual facts. We watch movies for the emotions they conjure up, the adventure they include, and the human element.
I agree with you about why we watch movies but in this case removing 2 of the brothers from the story is inexcusable. It's straying too far from the true story.
@@knomad75in a movie setting, you can’t have that much go on before an audience is fed up and each tragedy, as messed up as it is, loses the emotional toll. Plus, showing a little kid at the beginning pass would literally cause people to leave the theater
@@TBletsgo i disagree. So if they make a war movie they should have only a couple of people die so it's not too much tragedy? If its based off of a true story show me the truth.
@@knomad75 I do agree with that. I know Chris Von Erich wasn’t included. Kerry, Kevin, Mike, and David were included. I know Jack Jr wasn’t included. I can agree, but man…I still haven’t seen the movie yet. I just really wanna see this movie. I’m actually going through a terrible time. Which is why I haven’t seen it. It’s egregious all 6 of the brothers weren’t p it in the movie, but they say,”we can only do so much”.
Definitely his build was closer to Kerrys than Kevin who was toned not hench and more of an athletic high flyer. Efron is too big and too short to be Kevin
Yeah, that was one thing that kind of bothered me. If you look back at the Von Erichs, Kerry was built. So it was kind of weird having a muscled out Efron as Kevin with Kerry being so much smaller. But, it was forgivable (I'm a fan of Jeremy Allen White).
That was the one thing that bothered me too, not only the height but their physical condition, Kevin was in phenomenal shape no doubt, but I always remember Kerry having the most muscle mass.
@@evilTaker90V2kerry was like almost as big as schwarznegger in his acting career. He had a godly physique. Its like they smashed chris and kerry together into one character
I couldn't imagine losing 5 kids. Kevin said when Kerry died, it broke his father. Fritz and his wife got divorced, and he ended up dying alone. It's tragic.
@@dominiquejones3805 That literally makes no sense, the film is about the tragedy about a real life family, so yeah lets not include a family member because that's too sad? Stupid logic, out of respect they should have included all members of the family
Oh my gosh, Kerry's toes already look like they are dying and he's just smiling away. I'm glad the movie mentioned this because I saw an interview with Fritz and said the doctors only took half of Kerry's foot. Much respect for Kerry to continue to wrestle after the amputation of his foot.
Mike did not die "just outside the family home," he died at Lewisville Lake. And Kerry became NWA World Heavyweight Champion on *May* 6, 1984, not March 6. And for any young people who are new to the Von Erich story, Kevin also has two daughters, Kristen & Jillian, who were born before the boys, Ross & Marshall, even though the girls aren't mentioned in the movie.
The movie shows Kerry killing himself right next to the house, Kevin finding him, and choking out his Dad. Actually, Kerry walked up to his Dad, hugged him, told him he loved him, and asked if he could take the gun out shooting. He went way out into the field by an old Oak tree they they played on as kids and shot himself there. Fritz thought Kerry was gone too long and went looking for him. Fritz found him dead. Kevin wasn't there at the time. This was told by Kevin himself. I am just amazed that Kevin didn't even know this movie was being made. He said that he found out when his daughters told him it was all over the internet? Why wouldn't you get information about the movie you are making from the only person left alive that was there at the time it happened?
@@phil-1115 You are 💯 correct on everything. I think the people who did this movie wanted to take ALL the liberties they took, and they wouldn't have been able to do that if Kevin was asked to consult on the movie. That's just my take
@@MsJourneyfan, I think they want to make a fictional movie based on an actual event. There is no need to consult the person that was there if your goal is to make it all up as you go along.
@@phil-1115 I just hope people who didn't know anything about the family prior to seeing this movie, do some research afterword so they know the *whole* story. Kevin wrote a manuscript years ago about his family that he wanted to be made into a movie -- I wish that had been the basis for this movie. Don't get me wrong, it's a good movie. It just leaves out so much that's integral to the family's history.
I throughly enjoyed The Iron Claw. I think the essence of the Von Erichs’ story was captured in the film. One of the most difficult aspects of the film was watching Mike Von Erich struggle with the brain damage that followed his in-ring injury.
The movie is good. I say 8 out of 10. I thought it could’ve been longer and added more detail in certain areas. I thought it could’ve shown Kerry’s struggle with drugs a lil more and added Lance. It’s crazy how so many movies now are 230 - 3hrs long and don’t need to be yet this movie is barely 2hrs when there’s so much story to tell. But oh well, I enjoyed it overall
I think Lance was in it. Theres a scene where Kevin is in a tag team match, hes trying to get tapped in but doesnt. You see his partner is blonde and wins the match. Kevin claps but you can see he isnt into it
The guy who played Kerry was way too small, he is only 5ft7, Kerry was 6ft2 250 pounds, he would have been more suited to play Chris if they had Chris in the movie.
Great movie I enjoyed it, but it really brothers me that they left out chris, as if his life wasn't important enough to add to the movie. This movie is a celebration of ALL THE VON ERICK S. To not mention Chris is a tragedy within it self. RIP to every last member of that family, they're definitely a important chapter in the history of professional wrestling that can't be overlooked.
I agree, the director was talking about having Chris would have just been too much tragedy and been too long so basically combined Chris and Mike into the Mike character. But I don't know, a good filmmaker could have made it happen
As a kid, I remember watching Kerry wrestle in the WWF. First time I saw him, it blew my mind! HE was jacked and very quickly became one of the wrestlers I wanted to emulate. When he passed, it hit me hard and at that time, I had no idea he took his own life. When I found out, it made it even harder. I know as human beings, we tend to get attched to certain people/celebrities and Kerry was one of mine. Seeing this movie brought back so much of the sadness I felt... I can only imagine how Kevin must feel, even to this day.
Just some of the most devastating strings of misfortune and tragedy in pro Wrestling history they were through reason I started watching Wrestling Undertaker's resemblance to David and Mike and the fact that it was the reason fritz gave him his first gig shows the influence they had on the business during their short careers .
Kiel got a shout out. All the wars happened at Kiel. St. Louis got WCCW on top of WWF and “Wrestling At the Chase” on television. I saw Kerry vs Flair sold out at Kiel.
Would make a great mini series or a several season series based on the characters of the 1980s wrestling and trying to capture the magic of the time which was special. Also over 20 wrestlers from the dallas texas wrestling died of tragic deaths that would make for an interesting story indeed.
As a person who grew up in the late 70’s and 80’s in Dallas, TX and going to the Sportatorium to watch WCCW on numerous occasions, in addition to my family being in the wrestling business and knowing the Von Erich’s personally , I can say that I was very disappointed in this movie. While the movie slightly touched on the kind of asshole Fritz was as a person, it never showed the monster he truly was. Fritz was the curse of that family! My uncle wrestled under the name of Killer Karl Kox and was once tag champions with Fritz, and he told us the truth about how abusive to his family Fritz was. None of the boys wanted to wrestle or follow in his footsteps, but Fritz forced them to. He is the reason all of them but Kevin killed themselves, and yes David’s death was a suicide via overdose that was covered up because he died overseas. When WCCW finally went under, mostly due to the poor management of Fritz, he is the one who basically forced Kerry to go to the WWF, because Kerry did not want to continue wrestling after losing his foot in the motorcycle accident. I can remember when Kevin sold WCCW to Jarrett to get out of all the debt Fritz passed onto him, and in a local interview he stated he would do whatever it took to prevent his kids and kids of his siblings from ever entering a wrestling ring. To be fair, no one knows how Kevin pulled through everything he did and didn’t follow his brother’s footsteps of taking himself to the grave, but a lot of drugs and alcohol were definitely involved. Then you add the fact that so much was left out of the movie, and as a true fan I would’ve been fine with it being a 3-hour movie to include the other family members and actually get the timeline of events correct. And the casting for some of the people was absolutely horrible. Kerry, for example, was not short and stubby looking. All I can say is I’m glad I pirated the movie vs paying money to see it.
Your comment is exactly the one I was looking for. Someone who actually KNOWS. Thank you so much from a 59 year old wrestling fan. Your uncle was a very successful wrestler in his own right enjoyed watching him even though I did not see much of him.
The movie would have been horrible if they tried to give it some supernatural voodoo curse backstory based on Fritz. There's enough crappy ghost/horror movies out there. That's practically all they make these days. Much more impactful to base it on real human tragedy and the complications of family and dealing with loss. Really, they could have easily turned this into an entire streaming series around the entire WCCW 80s craziness. The stories of Gino Hernandez and Chris Adams could have taken an entire season.
Took my 10 year old nephew to watch it and he was devastated. I’m a 38 year old wrestling fan who considers himself a historian/fan/mark whatever you want it call it and knowing the story and the fantastic dvd wwe released and it still made me teary eyed! And I consider myself jaded when it comes to sappy stuff. I get they had to fit in 40 years of family history for 2 hours and I don’t hate them for it. It’s an enjoyable heart breaking watch.
Would’ve liked to seen more on Fritz and the way he controlled the boys. Like with holding money so they couldn’t go out n their own, how he cheated other wrestlers out of money, how he unloaded wrestler’s when they wouldn’t allow his kids all the glory. And yes I do know
@@justafan5598 Ever heard about how at the Parade of Champions in 1984 (David’s tribute show where Kerry won the NWA worlds title) they miraculously found boxes of autographed David Von Erich promo photos they sold like hotcakes to the fans at the gate? Fritz had staff in the back forging his own dead son’s signature to make a quick buck at a show dedicated to his memory. To this day it’s muddied up the collectors market because there are still so many fake DVE signed photos floating around out there that people bought and held onto from that event believing them to be real because they were bought directly from WCCW.
The movie did touch a bit on how fritz held onto money. When Kevin was looking at the financials he saw that it said he was paid more than he actually got.
Back in early 1983, we received WCCW here in Massachusetts. On the 4th of July I went to a cookout at my aunt and uncle's place. I snuck into my cousin's room to watch WCCW. The main event was Harley Race defending his NWA title against Kevin. David came out to aid an injured Kevin. Race kicked David, who ran into the ring to retaliate. I was almost 17 at the time and it was then that I decided that I wanted to be a professional wrestler. When David died, so did my dreams of being a wrestler. I cried for weeks because I felt that I had failed. Soon after David died, our local territory, the WWF poached the best wrestlers from all the territories and turned them into cartoon characters so I stopped going to the old Boston Garden every month.
The Iron Claw sacrificed legitimacy in favor of a movie story with creative license. Like a lot of so-called "True Stories" it comes down to "It's all about the money." It was "BASED" on a True story. It is still all Hollywood
...kept Lance in the movie but removed an entire brother...the brother who in life couldn't be a part of the business as much as he wanted. Kinda sidelined Chris again. Question to those who have seen the movie (I just haven't yet) Is it worth the watch?
It's a good movie. Lance literally is on screen for less than two minutes. Only way I knew who he was is because I knew it was MJF. Chris being left out was because they already had four brothers and the father to focus on. They didn't want to oversaturate the film and because Chris' contribution would have been more about his suicide (Gunshot to the head, similar to Kerry's gunshot to the chest), they chose to not use him in the film. Jeremy Allen White doesn't have anywhere near the build of Kerry in the film, but still plays the part well. Ric Flair was probably the most disappointing character. The guy didn't really look like Flair, didn't sound like Flair, and only had one partial line that came off in the same style that Flair would deliver. Luckily, he only has a few minutes of screen time. Overall though, it was a wrestling movie that I think even non-wrestling fans would like.
@@FezCaliph you don't see the story do you? You're a person with a dream, a want, a desire but your own body denies the very thing the spirit wants . You work hard and despite that work you get nowhere. How many L's can you take before you give up? It is like Sisyphus pushing that bolder up the hill but falling back down over and over again. That's more of a story in line with the idea of "a curse" than a brother who had a drug issue which could have been under their control because they chose to do it.
@@layna-heyhey exactly. No one wants to watch a story of someone taking Ls and then killing himself adding to the tragedies. I wonder if he even thought of his mother and what she’d go through losing him.
My friends and I grew up in the UK in the 80s watching 'rasslin' and Kerry was our favourite. He was 6ft 2 270lbs pure muscle and had success in the WWF. Everywhere he went, the crowd went wild. He was a superstar. I'm so disappointed that they cast a little guy as him, as good as he is. When you saw Kerry, everyone was like, wow, that should have been captured in this film
@@inconvenientfacts6452 Agreed. I think the Kerry and Kevin actors should have switched roles. Kevin was muscular, but leaner and athletic. Kerry was the bulked-up one.
What's really messed up is Chris wanted to be in the ring with his brothers, and it couldn't work out for him. And now he's cut from the movie!!! What a slap in the face of that young man's legacy!!! Not only did he get over looked in the ring but he was totally cut out of the movie!!!!!!
It does lie about how certain behind the scenes protocols would have been. Several times. Flair coming into the Von Erich's locker room after a match, for a glaring example. It's worth pointing out because so many DO walk out of these kinds of films thinking it's all legit. Just because it's not a documentary doesn't mean it shouldn't strive for accuracy.
If you’re gonna make a movie about real people and their tragedies especially without consulting them make it fucking accurate everything that happens to that family is out there in the oublic leaving no real excuse to leave out something like and entire family mem ever directly connected to the tragedy
I can’t wait to see it. But I really don’t think I’ll be able to get over the casting. Kerry was like a Hercules action figure come to life. He was gorgeous. I mean seriously?
If you go in this movie expecting it to be 100 percent accurate you won't enjoy it and you will start nitpicking. it's just a movie inspired by true events, relax. They done a great job, yes they don't really look like the people they are portraying but they all done a great job acting. Jeremy allen white was great as kerry even tho he dont really look like him or is as big as him. The body language and the way he walked was so much like kerry. They are actors and they done a great job
That was the one thing that was hard for me to get past. I know I should have just ignored it and enjoyed the film, but it was tough. Still a great movie, though.
Another lie: the film depicts Doris staying home during Kerry's title win against Ric Flair. Doris was at Texas Stadium that day. She even joined the family in the ring following Kerry's victory.
"We cut the Lance scene because the movie should be about the brothers. Also we can't mention Jack Jr until the final Heaven scene or Chris at all, that's just too much death, no one wants to watch that." I was hyped for this movie, but it was disjointed and left lots of stuff out. Maybe because I've seen a few documentaries about the Von Erichs, it just really didn't do it for me. And too much death? Dude, it's the Von Erichs, minus Kevin and his kids, they're a wrestling dynasty tragedy. Fun fact: The Flair post match scene in the locker room was allegedly the exact opposite of how it went down. Ric was supposed to work with Kerry for a month and he walked to the back after the match, threw the belt at someone, and said "Here, you work him for a month" because the match went so poorly.
Just broke my heart like crazy that they didn't add Chris in the movie. It went so far as to act like dude didn't even exist which, as a brother, just hit me in my emotions so badly...they even added the first born Jack.. so there was no good reason for them to not add Chris. That made it just an.. Alright movie to me
0:50 the iron cross is a German symbol but it does not symbolize nazism, it goes all the way back to the Napoleonic wars and is essentially a Medal of Honor I think
A mini series would have also allowed them to focus more depth into each member of the family instead of primarily focusing on Kevin. It also could have delved deeply into each tragedy instead of quickly moving from one to the next.
Kevin never believed in the curse. There are videos of him saying it is ridiculous while Kerry was still alive. I can accept some things not being 100% accurate. I understand some movies aren't meant to be biopics. I understand that. But this movie was ridiculous. Geno Hernadez and Bruiser Brody tagging? Fritz being the one against selling WCCW. That whole ridiculous scene after Kerry killed himself.
To say that they "cleaned up" the true story is an understatement. All "based on a true story" films leave out the most disturbing details. Also the fact that there are "brother" tag teams who look like the are related, but not really. The Andersons (who had multiple combinations of "brothers") were never related. There have also been, in multiple BOATS movies (theatrical and made for TV) for decades blended family members and/or associates (like the Danny DeVito character in *_Hoffa_* , and multiple figures in the film *_Casino_* ) into one character.
2 inaccuracies that I noticed was The movie has David making the comment of it's not between Texas and Georgia it's between decency and filth. That was actually said by Kevin in a promo. The other inaccuracy I noticed was that they had Kerry's motorcycle accident during his title reign when that was much later down the road
I watched this movie on a long haul flight, caught my eye bc i was a huge wrestling fan as a kid. The final two scenes are absolute tear jerkers I cried a lot at the end and my wife asked why and i couldnt summarize the plot of the film to her without crying more.
Kevin actually had 4 children and his sons were too young when Kerry died, his youngest would have been a year old. He has 2 daughters that were never mentioned. Kerry's children were never mentioned and the movie ignored the addiction that plaqued the brothers except Kevin. And also glossed over how beloved the whole family was in Texas until the truth came out about their drugs and suicides, then the fans turned on them The movie told half the family's story
I’m glad you made this video. I have zero plans to watch this movie. The director decides to leave Chris out of the film… a guy who committed suicide due to failure/rejection. Classless move, dude. “This film just couldn’t withstand another brothers death”… it’s what happened!! Fuck that guy, and his bogus, cherry picked wrestling movie.
They need to do a WCCW movie. The Iron Claw could have been much better than that. Personally Zach Efron look more like Kerry Von Erich and the guy that played Kerry should’ve played Chris Von Erich because I don’t understand why he wasn’t apart of the movie.
I watched this movie with my roommate, he is not a wrestling fan but is from texas so he was down to watch, he lost his brother so he ended up crying by the end, i did too, im a life long wrestling fan whos family is from texas so i knew the story well. I, like kerry lost my leg in a vehicle accident, so ive always related myself to him and i honestly feel my life will end in a similar manor to his one day because i do have pretty severe depression and have attempted multiple times. This is a beautiful film, even tho it completely left out Chris.
The stuff left out was for time constraints mostly. And they DO talk about why they think they were cursed. And in reality, neither Kevin,Kerry,David OR Fritz believed in the cursed. And it is/was believed by his remaining family that the reason took his own life was his fear of going to prison.
It was a great movie, but the casting was really questionable. Zac Effron and the guy that played Kerry are almost a foot shorter then the actual Von Enrich brothers
They left out the Von Erich's torturing and killing stray cats. Anyone who met the Von Erich boys always say they were weirdos and really not nice people.
This movie could have been a masterpiece had they kept the story TRUE. Im not even interested in watching it knowing it's not accurate. I watched a documentary on the family instead.
What an unnecessarily brutal title to this video! 🤯 you could probably find eight things in every single bio pic that was changed either for brevity or to simply make for a better, more enjoyable movie ☹️
I don’t know but I think the guy that played Kevin should’ve played Kerry bc Kerry was very nice looking the movie didn’t do him justice with his character.
First off, the movie was excellent, but secondly how could they just leave out a person of the family? I mean Chris was a person and to just leave him out of the movie is just disrespectful.
Regardless if the movie wasn't quit accurate. I love it! It brought memories as a kid watching with my grandpa. My kids grew up watching old school wrestling. This movie is a must see!!!
The Iron Claw movie was for entertainment only and even Kevin Von Erich was okay with it. In fact,Kevin Von Erich teared up after watching it and he's not even someone who easily cries.
My wife: That was so sad. Was all that true?
Me: Mostly, the true story is much sadder.
I would say not even mostly true. The basic story line is true. That's about it.
I mean the timing is off and a person is missing, but overall mostly true
Chris is so tragic I wish they would’ve shows chris’s life
@@lilspliffster88 and he loved wrestling the most
Movie was a flop. They skipped out many details. My respect to Kevin for carrying the extreme family load.
Yes, if you walk up to a stranger and tell them, I had four brothers. One died suddenly from an unexpected medical ailment, and the other three all killed themselves in a span of six years. That person would probably find it hard to believe. An overwhelming amount of tragedy.
Oh...and my oldest brother died in a freak accident at 7.
@@anecessaryevil6879Jack Jr was 6 years old when he died when Kevin was just shy of his 2nd birthday
Except the true story is that there were 6 brothers and 5 died. They actually included the youngest and completely disregarded Chris
@@mikelachey824 Chris was the youngest dude. Jack Jr was the eldest bro. I was mad they left Chris out, I understand why it was done but ita wrong hes not even mentioned. The photo of the family on the wall never made sense with him missing from it so he should have at least been on that.
@@rocksk8boi Kevin said he was 3 and still remembers that day they found Jack
You want a movie that shows an exact story exactly how it took place, watch documentaries. This film did an excellent job telling their story while making it entertaining as well
EXACTTTLY!! I'm a hardcore wrestling fan. I watch everything. From now days, and back then. And yes... things are wrong... and yes timelines are wrong... But at the same time... Thats EVERY movie like this. They hollywood them up some to make them more watchable for any audience. Still was a very cool movie , and very fun seeing wrestlers like The Freebirds, and Harley Race brought to life again for this movie. Still very worth the watch.
Thank you! ❤
How did someone 5' 8 180 play the 6'2 260 lb kerry😂 the guy playing kevin is 6 ft 220 😅
@@scottsetzke7967 It's a movie, relax. Jeremy allen white did not look exactly like kerry but he done a great job acting like kerry. He got his body language and the way he walked and moved was so much like kerry. He's an actor. there are no actors that look like kerry and have the same build as him lol, he done a great job tho
Actually most docs nowadays are exceptional if they’re more than 50% accurate
Kevin said he stopped believing in the curse when he tried to get arrested and kill himself. He robbed what I believe was a gun store if I’m remembering what he said correctly. The guy he was robbing told him he loved him. He said that he broke down in tears and they all prayed together after that. He said,” it was a good day for Texas.” He decided that day to get on with his life. He was a great wrestler, but more so, he’s a great man.
I feel so bad for Kerry to hide something like that and go through all that pain just to make your dad proud 😢
And what a job he did hiding, didn't anyone know Kerry had his foot amputated and he wore a prosthetic
I don’t care what they got wrong. I know the story. I adore the Von Erich’s. Kevin is a hero to me. We don’t watch movies to get the actual facts. We watch movies for the emotions they conjure up, the adventure they include, and the human element.
I agree with you about why we watch movies but in this case removing 2 of the brothers from the story is inexcusable. It's straying too far from the true story.
@@knomad75in a movie setting, you can’t have that much go on before an audience is fed up and each tragedy, as messed up as it is, loses the emotional toll. Plus, showing a little kid at the beginning pass would literally cause people to leave the theater
@@TBletsgo i disagree. So if they make a war movie they should have only a couple of people die so it's not too much tragedy? If its based off of a true story show me the truth.
💯💯💯
@@knomad75 I do agree with that. I know Chris Von Erich wasn’t included. Kerry, Kevin, Mike, and David were included. I know Jack Jr wasn’t included. I can agree, but man…I still haven’t seen the movie yet. I just really wanna see this movie. I’m actually going through a terrible time. Which is why I haven’t seen it. It’s egregious all 6 of the brothers weren’t p it in the movie, but they say,”we can only do so much”.
That final scene with Ross and Marshall telling their Dad they'll be his brothers now made me cry.
Same bro - and it’s been awhile
Am I the only one who thinks Zac Efron should have played Kerry Von Erich?
Yes. Efron is 5'8" 160 lbs
Definitely his build was closer to Kerrys than Kevin who was toned not hench and more of an athletic high flyer. Efron is too big and too short to be Kevin
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought that.
they probably felt zac could portray the character of kevin better
Yes absolutely
They lied to me making me think a 5'7 145lbs guy was Kerry Von Erich
Yeah, that was one thing that kind of bothered me. If you look back at the Von Erichs, Kerry was built. So it was kind of weird having a muscled out Efron as Kevin with Kerry being so much smaller. But, it was forgivable (I'm a fan of Jeremy Allen White).
I feel like they should have switched them. That to me would have made it a lot better.
That was the one thing that bothered me too, not only the height but their physical condition, Kevin was in phenomenal shape no doubt, but I always remember Kerry having the most muscle mass.
@@evilTaker90V2kerry was like almost as big as schwarznegger in his acting career. He had a godly physique. Its like they smashed chris and kerry together into one character
How the hell did they get the casting so wrong when it was right in front of them. Jesus
I couldn't imagine losing 5 kids. Kevin said when Kerry died, it broke his father. Fritz and his wife got divorced, and he ended up dying alone. It's tragic.
If they really made them kids look out for each other instead of parenting (the mom included), then he got what he deserved.
Crazy they didn’t even involve Chris Von Erich..
I think itbworked 4 the movie. There was so much pain & heartache. They left it 2 the viewers interpretation of the mother getting a divorce also
He being saved for the sequel...
@@mcgannahanskyjellyfetti6854 their is no part 2, and his death happened during the other brothers, not after so it wouldn’t make sense
@@dominiquejones3805 That literally makes no sense, the film is about the tragedy about a real life family, so yeah lets not include a family member because that's too sad? Stupid logic, out of respect they should have included all members of the family
Oh my gosh, Kerry's toes already look like they are dying and he's just smiling away. I'm glad the movie mentioned this because I saw an interview with Fritz and said the doctors only took half of Kerry's foot. Much respect for Kerry to continue to wrestle after the amputation of his foot.
Mike did not die "just outside the family home," he died at Lewisville Lake. And Kerry became NWA World Heavyweight Champion on *May* 6, 1984, not March 6. And for any young people who are new to the Von Erich story, Kevin also has two daughters, Kristen & Jillian, who were born before the boys, Ross & Marshall, even though the girls aren't mentioned in the movie.
The movie shows Kerry killing himself right next to the house, Kevin finding him, and choking out his Dad. Actually, Kerry walked up to his Dad, hugged him, told him he loved him, and asked if he could take the gun out shooting. He went way out into the field by an old Oak tree they they played on as kids and shot himself there. Fritz thought Kerry was gone too long and went looking for him. Fritz found him dead. Kevin wasn't there at the time. This was told by Kevin himself.
I am just amazed that Kevin didn't even know this movie was being made. He said that he found out when his daughters told him it was all over the internet? Why wouldn't you get information about the movie you are making from the only person left alive that was there at the time it happened?
@@phil-1115 You are 💯 correct on everything. I think the people who did this movie wanted to take ALL the liberties they took, and they wouldn't have been able to do that if Kevin was asked to consult on the movie. That's just my take
@@MsJourneyfan, I think they want to make a fictional movie based on an actual event. There is no need to consult the person that was there if your goal is to make it all up as you go along.
@@phil-1115 I just hope people who didn't know anything about the family prior to seeing this movie, do some research afterword so they know the *whole* story. Kevin wrote a manuscript years ago about his family that he wanted to be made into a movie -- I wish that had been the basis for this movie. Don't get me wrong, it's a good movie. It just leaves out so much that's integral to the family's history.
@@MsJourneyfan, I agree 100%.
I throughly enjoyed The Iron Claw. I think the essence of the Von Erichs’ story was captured in the film. One of the most difficult aspects of the film was watching Mike Von Erich struggle with the brain damage that followed his in-ring injury.
To fit everything in a 2 hr film wouldn't be a great idea. For what it was, it was a fantastic movie.
The movie is good. I say 8 out of 10. I thought it could’ve been longer and added more detail in certain areas. I thought it could’ve shown Kerry’s struggle with drugs a lil more and added Lance.
It’s crazy how so many movies now are 230 - 3hrs long and don’t need to be yet this movie is barely 2hrs when there’s so much story to tell. But oh well, I enjoyed it overall
I think Lance was in it. Theres a scene where Kevin is in a tag team match, hes trying to get tapped in but doesnt. You see his partner is blonde and wins the match. Kevin claps but you can see he isnt into it
@@coreymach_ And MJF was supposed to play a Von Erich right?
@@San-li9mlyes it’s MJF briefly as Lance
Yeah, that should have made it as a miniseries. Too much story to cram into a couple hours.
Iron Claw should jave been 3 hrs long and would have been perfect with more wrestling matches.
The guy who played Kerry was way too small, he is only 5ft7, Kerry was 6ft2 250 pounds, he would have been more suited to play Chris if they had Chris in the movie.
Lol that's what I was thinking too
I Agree
Yes. Didn't look right him seeing him that short. Kerry in real life was a beast
Efron shoulda played Kerry & the guy who played Kerry shoulda played Kevin
They both should have played chris
Great movie I enjoyed it, but it really brothers me that they left out chris, as if his life wasn't important enough to add to the movie. This movie is a celebration of ALL THE VON ERICK S. To not mention Chris is a tragedy within it self. RIP to every last member of that family, they're definitely a important chapter in the history of professional wrestling that can't be overlooked.
I agree, the director was talking about having Chris would have just been too much tragedy and been too long so basically combined Chris and Mike into the Mike character. But I don't know, a good filmmaker could have made it happen
@@billblaski9523 exactly agree 👍. Like leaving out a brother would have never been a option
I was stunned that they did not even acknowledge Chris Adams. He was a very instrumental wrestler in the territory during its hayday.
As a kid, I remember watching Kerry wrestle in the WWF. First time I saw him, it blew my mind! HE was jacked and very quickly became one of the wrestlers I wanted to emulate. When he passed, it hit me hard and at that time, I had no idea he took his own life. When I found out, it made it even harder. I know as human beings, we tend to get attched to certain people/celebrities and Kerry was one of mine. Seeing this movie brought back so much of the sadness I felt... I can only imagine how Kevin must feel, even to this day.
despite some flaws, this was a great film! Efron could very well receive an Oscar nomination after his performance
Just some of the most devastating strings of misfortune and tragedy in pro Wrestling history they were through reason I started watching Wrestling Undertaker's resemblance to David and Mike and the fact that it was the reason fritz gave him his first gig shows the influence they had on the business during their short careers .
Even 30 years later I cried like a baby when they covered Kerry's death in the movie.
2:42 That movie could have been over 3 hours, and it still couldn't have told the whole story. Awesome from the opening bell!!
Appreciate the PA for the suicide prevention hotline at the end of this vid!!
You rock!!
I battle depression everyday I'm on meds for it I agree 💯 if anyone needs help it's out there
@@abelaldrich7831let’s not forget therapy helps too! As a fellow depressed person it’s saved me from my thoughts!
Kiel got a shout out. All the wars happened at Kiel. St. Louis got WCCW on top of WWF and “Wrestling At the Chase” on television. I saw Kerry vs Flair sold out at Kiel.
Would make a great mini series or a several season series based on the characters of the 1980s wrestling and trying to capture the magic of the time which was special. Also over 20 wrestlers from the dallas texas wrestling died of tragic deaths that would make for an interesting story indeed.
As a person who grew up in the late 70’s and 80’s in Dallas, TX and going to the Sportatorium to watch WCCW on numerous occasions, in addition to my family being in the wrestling business and knowing the Von Erich’s personally , I can say that I was very disappointed in this movie. While the movie slightly touched on the kind of asshole Fritz was as a person, it never showed the monster he truly was. Fritz was the curse of that family!
My uncle wrestled under the name of Killer Karl Kox and was once tag champions with Fritz, and he told us the truth about how abusive to his family Fritz was. None of the boys wanted to wrestle or follow in his footsteps, but Fritz forced them to. He is the reason all of them but Kevin killed themselves, and yes David’s death was a suicide via overdose that was covered up because he died overseas. When WCCW finally went under, mostly due to the poor management of Fritz, he is the one who basically forced Kerry to go to the WWF, because Kerry did not want to continue wrestling after losing his foot in the motorcycle accident.
I can remember when Kevin sold WCCW to Jarrett to get out of all the debt Fritz passed onto him, and in a local interview he stated he would do whatever it took to prevent his kids and kids of his siblings from ever entering a wrestling ring. To be fair, no one knows how Kevin pulled through everything he did and didn’t follow his brother’s footsteps of taking himself to the grave, but a lot of drugs and alcohol were definitely involved.
Then you add the fact that so much was left out of the movie, and as a true fan I would’ve been fine with it being a 3-hour movie to include the other family members and actually get the timeline of events correct. And the casting for some of the people was absolutely horrible. Kerry, for example, was not short and stubby looking. All I can say is I’m glad I pirated the movie vs paying money to see it.
Your comment is exactly the one I was looking for. Someone who actually KNOWS. Thank you so much from a 59 year old wrestling fan. Your uncle was a very successful wrestler in his own right enjoyed watching him even though I did not see much of him.
Kevin - now a senior citizen
Jesus, good reporting
The movie would have been horrible if they tried to give it some supernatural voodoo curse backstory based on Fritz. There's enough crappy ghost/horror movies out there. That's practically all they make these days. Much more impactful to base it on real human tragedy and the complications of family and dealing with loss.
Really, they could have easily turned this into an entire streaming series around the entire WCCW 80s craziness. The stories of Gino Hernandez and Chris Adams could have taken an entire season.
Gorgeous Gina. Yeah his mom truly believes he was murdered. Especially what his Dark Side of the Ring episode portrayed. I love that series.
Took my 10 year old nephew to watch it and he was devastated. I’m a 38 year old wrestling fan who considers himself a historian/fan/mark whatever you want it call it and knowing the story and the fantastic dvd wwe released and it still made me teary eyed! And I consider myself jaded when it comes to sappy stuff. I get they had to fit in 40 years of family history for 2 hours and I don’t hate them for it. It’s an enjoyable heart breaking watch.
Would’ve liked to seen more on Fritz and the way he controlled the boys. Like with holding money so they couldn’t go out n their own, how he cheated other wrestlers out of money, how he unloaded wrestler’s when they wouldn’t allow his kids all the glory. And yes I do know
A lot was left out. As bad as Fritz was in the movie, he was way worse in real life.
@@justafan5598
Ever heard about how at the Parade of Champions in 1984 (David’s tribute show where Kerry won the NWA worlds title) they miraculously found boxes of autographed David Von Erich promo photos they sold like hotcakes to the fans at the gate?
Fritz had staff in the back forging his own dead son’s signature to make a quick buck at a show dedicated to his memory.
To this day it’s muddied up the collectors market because there are still so many fake DVE signed photos floating around out there that people bought and held onto from that event believing them to be real because they were bought directly from WCCW.
The movie did touch a bit on how fritz held onto money. When Kevin was looking at the financials he saw that it said he was paid more than he actually got.
I believe Kevin said his dad wasn’t as bad as the movie made him out to be
MJF’s contribution wasn’t a cameo, it was a flat-out background extra! 😂
Blink and you’ll miss it lol
He's still better than us, and we know it.
@@EwanCumia Speak for yourself. MJF is not better than me, he’s an ugly troll.
@AlphachadEpicCollector He had some scenes where he actually spoke, but they were cut. He was also an Executive Producer
@@ericjonsports I know that.
Back in early 1983, we received WCCW here in Massachusetts. On the 4th of July I went to a cookout at my aunt and uncle's place. I snuck into my cousin's room to watch WCCW. The main event was Harley Race defending his NWA title against Kevin. David came out to aid an injured Kevin. Race kicked David, who ran into the ring to retaliate. I was almost 17 at the time and it was then that I decided that I wanted to be a professional wrestler. When David died, so did my dreams of being a wrestler. I cried for weeks because I felt that I had failed.
Soon after David died, our local territory, the WWF poached the best wrestlers from all the territories and turned them into cartoon characters so I stopped going to the old Boston Garden every month.
The Iron Claw sacrificed legitimacy in favor of a movie story with creative license. Like a lot of so-called "True Stories" it comes down to "It's all about the money."
It was "BASED" on a True story. It is still all Hollywood
...kept Lance in the movie but removed an entire brother...the brother who in life couldn't be a part of the business as much as he wanted. Kinda sidelined Chris again. Question to those who have seen the movie (I just haven't yet) Is it worth the watch?
Yes it’s worth the watch absolutely
It's a good movie. Lance literally is on screen for less than two minutes. Only way I knew who he was is because I knew it was MJF. Chris being left out was because they already had four brothers and the father to focus on. They didn't want to oversaturate the film and because Chris' contribution would have been more about his suicide (Gunshot to the head, similar to Kerry's gunshot to the chest), they chose to not use him in the film. Jeremy Allen White doesn't have anywhere near the build of Kerry in the film, but still plays the part well. Ric Flair was probably the most disappointing character. The guy didn't really look like Flair, didn't sound like Flair, and only had one partial line that came off in the same style that Flair would deliver. Luckily, he only has a few minutes of screen time. Overall though, it was a wrestling movie that I think even non-wrestling fans would like.
I mean ya. You didn’t do much while alive, then killed yourself. Not much reason to put him in the film.
@@FezCaliph you don't see the story do you? You're a person with a dream, a want, a desire but your own body denies the very thing the spirit wants . You work hard and despite that work you get nowhere. How many L's can you take before you give up? It is like Sisyphus pushing that bolder up the hill but falling back down over and over again. That's more of a story in line with the idea of "a curse" than a brother who had a drug issue which could have been under their control because they chose to do it.
@@layna-heyhey exactly. No one wants to watch a story of someone taking Ls and then killing himself adding to the tragedies. I wonder if he even thought of his mother and what she’d go through losing him.
if Kerry only knew how much the fans truly loved him ,
Facts 😢
My friends and I grew up in the UK in the 80s watching 'rasslin' and Kerry was our favourite. He was 6ft 2 270lbs pure muscle and had success in the WWF. Everywhere he went, the crowd went wild. He was a superstar.
I'm so disappointed that they cast a little guy as him, as good as he is. When you saw Kerry, everyone was like, wow, that should have been captured in this film
@@inconvenientfacts6452 Agreed. I think the Kerry and Kevin actors should have switched roles. Kevin was muscular, but leaner and athletic. Kerry was the bulked-up one.
@@rashan296 Agreed! The texas tornado was a beast! Should've switched roles.
What's really messed up is Chris wanted to be in the ring with his brothers, and it couldn't work out for him. And now he's cut from the movie!!! What a slap in the face of that young man's legacy!!! Not only did he get over looked in the ring but he was totally cut out of the movie!!!!!!
It’s a movie. Not a Documentary. “Lied” is a strong word.
It does lie about how certain behind the scenes protocols would have been. Several times. Flair coming into the Von Erich's locker room after a match, for a glaring example.
It's worth pointing out because so many DO walk out of these kinds of films thinking it's all legit.
Just because it's not a documentary doesn't mean it shouldn't strive for accuracy.
Exactly, they are doing this for cheap clicks instead of doing a good video that took effort.
If you’re gonna make a movie about real people and their tragedies especially without consulting them make it fucking accurate everything that happens to that family is out there in the oublic leaving no real excuse to leave out something like and entire family mem ever directly connected to the tragedy
@@Ah_Yotewhen have you ever seen a real life story turned into movie and not be dramatized
Wrestling on 1 leg is wild
I just couldn’t get over Kerry being 5’9 in this movie.
Yes, that is a young Steve Austin throwing little Chris into the turnbuckle.
I can’t wait to see it. But I really don’t think I’ll be able to get over the casting. Kerry was like a Hercules action figure come to life. He was gorgeous. I mean seriously?
It was a complete joke of a cast with the exception of Fritz. He nailed it. Zach should've played Kerry and David was just ok. Kerry and Mike... wtf?
If you go in this movie expecting it to be 100 percent accurate you won't enjoy it and you will start nitpicking. it's just a movie inspired by true events, relax. They done a great job, yes they don't really look like the people they are portraying but they all done a great job acting. Jeremy allen white was great as kerry even tho he dont really look like him or is as big as him. The body language and the way he walked was so much like kerry. They are actors and they done a great job
@@anthonyterry8162David being okay?!? Harris Dickinson exuded charisma
That was the one thing that was hard for me to get past. I know I should have just ignored it and enjoyed the film, but it was tough. Still a great movie, though.
@@jonaspopeiv9873 same here. I watched halfway and couldn't finish it
Met Kerry before he lost his leg. He looked tired. Very sad.
Another lie: the film depicts Doris staying home during Kerry's title win against Ric Flair. Doris was at Texas Stadium that day. She even joined the family in the ring following Kerry's victory.
I am a 47 year old tuff guy that cried at the movie theater watching this movie release day lol
🙋♂️51… same 😢
@@Grogfury777 the last ten minutes was so sad and painful emotionally. I was totally surprised I shed a couple tears at the end. Good movie!
"We cut the Lance scene because the movie should be about the brothers. Also we can't mention Jack Jr until the final Heaven scene or Chris at all, that's just too much death, no one wants to watch that."
I was hyped for this movie, but it was disjointed and left lots of stuff out. Maybe because I've seen a few documentaries about the Von Erichs, it just really didn't do it for me.
And too much death? Dude, it's the Von Erichs, minus Kevin and his kids, they're a wrestling dynasty tragedy.
Fun fact: The Flair post match scene in the locker room was allegedly the exact opposite of how it went down. Ric was supposed to work with Kerry for a month and he walked to the back after the match, threw the belt at someone, and said "Here, you work him for a month" because the match went so poorly.
Just broke my heart like crazy that they didn't add Chris in the movie. It went so far as to act like dude didn't even exist which, as a brother, just hit me in my emotions so badly...they even added the first born Jack.. so there was no good reason for them to not add Chris. That made it just an.. Alright movie to me
They shouldn’t have omitted Chris, tell the story…….
Umm Jackie was 6 & Fritz told him to put his bike away when he was electrocuted but did drown in a puddle. Per many interviews I've watched by Kevin.
It really sounds like the iron claw was one big fiction movie.😔
0:50 the iron cross is a German symbol but it does not symbolize nazism, it goes all the way back to the Napoleonic wars and is essentially a Medal of Honor I think
Kerry was never on track to be in the Olympics. His best throw was not even close.
They should have made it a 4 part mini series on Hulu or Netflix and told the truth
A mini series would have also allowed them to focus more depth into each member of the family instead of primarily focusing on Kevin. It also could have delved deeply into each tragedy instead of quickly moving from one to the next.
Kevin Von Erich gave it the thumbs up..thats enough for me. I loved it
I knew pretty much everything about The Von Erich's and yet after I left the movie theater yesterday, I was legit depressed for about 2 hours.
I still can’t get over the miscasting of Kerry Von Erich in this movie.
Kevin never believed in the curse. There are videos of him saying it is ridiculous while Kerry was still alive. I can accept some things not being 100% accurate. I understand some movies aren't meant to be biopics. I understand that. But this movie was ridiculous. Geno Hernadez and Bruiser Brody tagging? Fritz being the one against selling WCCW. That whole ridiculous scene after Kerry killed himself.
FYI, Gino Hernandez & Bruiser Brody held the NWA Texas Tag Team Title from 8-4-78 to 9/4/78.
To say that they "cleaned up" the true story is an understatement. All "based on a true story" films leave out the most disturbing details. Also the fact that there are "brother" tag teams who look like the are related, but not really. The Andersons (who had multiple combinations of "brothers") were never related. There have also been, in multiple BOATS movies (theatrical and made for TV) for decades blended family members and/or associates (like the Danny DeVito character in *_Hoffa_* , and multiple figures in the film *_Casino_* ) into one character.
Having Kerry played by a small manlet is seriously weird.
Yea
Cruiserweight Kerry = 👎
And bro did amazing...
2 me it should of been a roll switch. Zach looked more like Kerry
2 inaccuracies that I noticed was The movie has David making the comment of it's not between Texas and Georgia it's between decency and filth. That was actually said by Kevin in a promo. The other inaccuracy I noticed was that they had Kerry's motorcycle accident during his title reign when that was much later down the road
I watched this movie on a long haul flight, caught my eye bc i was a huge wrestling fan as a kid. The final two scenes are absolute tear jerkers I cried a lot at the end and my wife asked why and i couldnt summarize the plot of the film to her without crying more.
The curse was the father Fritz, for turning them into wrestlers when they didn't wanted to be!!
Kevin actually had 4 children and his sons were too young when Kerry died, his youngest would have been a year old. He has 2 daughters that were never mentioned.
Kerry's children were never mentioned and the movie ignored the addiction that plaqued the brothers except Kevin. And also glossed over how beloved the whole family was in Texas until the truth came out about their drugs and suicides, then the fans turned on them
The movie told half the family's story
On a bad day nobody should watch that movie...
I’m glad you made this video. I have zero plans to watch this movie. The director decides to leave Chris out of the film… a guy who committed suicide due to failure/rejection. Classless move, dude. “This film just couldn’t withstand another brothers death”… it’s what happened!! Fuck that guy, and his bogus, cherry picked wrestling movie.
I saw the real story unfold over the years. No interest in seeing a movie with actors who look nothing like the family.
I completely get it, this movie was tearing my heart out. It was a nice touch 2 have the oldest brother show up as a child n the afterlife
They need to do a WCCW movie. The Iron Claw could have been much better than that. Personally Zach Efron look more like Kerry Von Erich and the guy that played Kerry should’ve played Chris Von Erich because I don’t understand why he wasn’t apart of the movie.
The von Ericks is the worlds greatest family dynasty sadly only one brother still lives
I watched this movie with my roommate, he is not a wrestling fan but is from texas so he was down to watch, he lost his brother so he ended up crying by the end, i did too, im a life long wrestling fan whos family is from texas so i knew the story well. I, like kerry lost my leg in a vehicle accident, so ive always related myself to him and i honestly feel my life will end in a similar manor to his one day because i do have pretty severe depression and have attempted multiple times. This is a beautiful film, even tho it completely left out Chris.
The stuff left out was for time constraints mostly.
And they DO talk about why they think they were cursed. And in reality, neither Kevin,Kerry,David OR Fritz believed in the cursed.
And it is/was believed by his remaining family that the reason took his own life was his fear of going to prison.
Iron Claw is the best movie that I've soon in 2024 thus far.
It was a great movie, but the casting was really questionable. Zac Effron and the guy that played Kerry are almost a foot shorter then the actual Von Enrich brothers
They left out the Von Erich's torturing and killing stray cats.
Anyone who met the Von Erich boys always say they were weirdos and really not nice people.
I watched the iron claw yesterday and it is absolutely brilliant
It never claimed to be a documentary. It is a dramatic film based on a real story.
The narratir voice for this channel sounds like it fits more with a buzzfeed video.
This movie could have been a masterpiece had they kept the story TRUE. Im not even interested in watching it knowing it's not accurate. I watched a documentary on the family instead.
So it would have been better served being a multi season limited series
Zach should get a Oscar
Movie was absolutely amazing...just my opinion RIP CHRIS DAVID KERRY MIKE VON ERIC
What an unnecessarily brutal title to this video! 🤯 you could probably find eight things in every single bio pic that was changed either for brevity or to simply make for a better, more enjoyable movie ☹️
It's life, not a curse. The way you live your life, that's how it play's out. Everybody dies a different death or similar.
They did showed Kerry's run in wwe after losing his foot u got it wrong here
We were already told the movie made up some of it cause they thought it wouldn't be believable.
They were WRONG for what they did to Ric Flair. That was an ABOMINATION
flair was worst one gordy and a 6 foot bruiser brody not far behind
They got the casting backwards too. Zac and Jeremy should have switched roles.
It says, "BASED" on a true story dammit. Why does everything have to perfectly accurate in a narrative artwork on film. Geez Louise. The film is GOLD.
It doesn't "have" to be, but that doesn't mean we can't disagree with decisions made by the writers.
If it was your family, you'd probably want the details to be accurate.
This movie should be a mini series but I think they were hoping it would be nominated to the Oscars
Very sad what happened to these guys
they missed some stuff or had some inaccuracies but i still thought it was a fantastic movie. Very sad too.
Kevin know damn well his family was cursed. He probably broke the curse outliving everyone
I don’t know but I think the guy that played Kevin should’ve played Kerry bc Kerry was very nice looking the movie didn’t do him justice with his character.
First off, the movie was excellent, but secondly how could they just leave out a person of the family? I mean Chris was a person and to just leave him out of the movie is just disrespectful.
Regardless if the movie wasn't quit accurate. I love it! It brought memories as a kid watching with my grandpa. My kids grew up watching old school wrestling. This movie is a must see!!!
Facts, they captured the WCCW TV program pretty accurately I think
The biggest lie was having a 5'5" 170 pound guy play a 6'2" 230 pound Kerry
guy should have played Chris
@@dirtymcnuggets9933 Anyone but Kerry.
Cannot live your life through your children
The Iron Claw movie was for entertainment only and even Kevin Von Erich was okay with it. In fact,Kevin Von Erich teared up after watching it and he's not even someone who easily cries.