Excellent demonstration. No talking, just headphones-listening with the mic placement diagram. VERY informative and I thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge
i think XY can be very useful for a lot of musicproductions.. this setup "sets" the drumset in an own "space" and the cymbals in the stereo width sound´s very controlled for me.
You get a little more kick head with back spaced pair then normal spaced pair which gives more clarity and punch, but there is also more room and less cymbals it seems. Great. Probably really good to capture a full and balanced kit with limited mics.
Amazing video! I have never seen someone experiment with angling the spaced pair or do a rear spaced pair, gave me a lot of ideas. Seems to get rid of a lot of that low end and mid that often ends up getting cut out anyways. Very cool.
I liked back spaced pair the best. But then, I like a little room in my drum sound. I often use a similar technique, albeit with the mics in front of the kit rather than behind.
I liked the most recorder man...reminds me on Glen Jones technique if i am correct, one mic above snare the other mic drummer right side..same distance from snare.
I prefer X/Y and M/S. I use A / B to prepare the signal for the rear speakers when preparing the 5.1 surround material. This movie is a great opportunity to listen to each version. I just missed M / S here. Good job. :)
Excellent demonstration with quite a few interesting ideas. But i'm starting to wonder why nobody ever seems to talk about Mid-Side-config of overheads. It is easily my most favorite way to place overheads but i almost never see anyone talk about it?
I usually use the x-y patern, but I'm not sure now if I'm doing it out of habit. Listening to this demonstration, I'm not sure any more wich I prefered.
The best sound I EVER got out a recorded kit at home was with one mic going through a Yamaha SPX-90 for added reverb, about 4 feet away from the kit (Tama Artstar kit) in 1984. It was magic. One crash cymbal sounded a little harsh but I was never able to recreate it again. Can't even remember the mic, quite possibly a SM58. My studio at the time was covered wall to ceiling with styrofoam (no longer recommended of course). I try many things at home these days in my new home studio but to be honest, nothing ever sounds professional enough for my liking. I'll listen to what I remember was dynamite sounding (close miced with overheads and room mics) yesterday and realize it's flat and without any punch today and sigh my little sigh and then simply record with my Roland TD-20-KX kit, which never sounds bad. Even when I actually WANT a shitty sounding amateur acoustic drum sound, my Vdrums do that better than my kit as well. It's a never ending battle... and we're all trying!
Yeah, with very smooth cymbals players it does not work really well, i mean this is okay but you loose a little details on hit hat and ride cymbals, but that is the only exception.
You could be just hearing the very common "whistling" or slight "icepick" of the cymbals, which is very common and acceptable, imo. Just kind of what cymbals do. then again I'm not listening on headphones -But I am hearing some pretty prominent cymbal whistling at times. Creative Soundlab has some pretty amazing cymbal/ overhead micing tutorials up right now. If you find your overheads are out of phase with your snare or kick after recording, don't ever flip the polarity of your kick -Always flip your overheads to meet your kick phase-wise... Cheers!!
Loved everything about your presentation...except (sorry) that your poor drummer doesn’t EVER play the toms (more than spastic little boings). Let’s have (next time) a real fill so we can really hear the stereo image. Thanx guys...beautiful job.
How in the world are you gettin away with using Everlong in your video lol, I know copyright says you can use any song for a small amount of time (if the artist doesn't sue you) but the Foo Fighters are pretty picky with the copyrights of their music. Great video!
@@blackusniggus6249 So I guess you never heard of a publishing company. Very rarely do the actual musicians/writers have a say in this. It's up to the Publisher and lawyers. Unless the Foo Fighters Run their own publishing company that is.
@@blackusniggus6249 oh how i wish i could live in your world of blissful ignorance :P it's not like the foos are sitting there personally and picking through videos, it's all algorithms run by youtube feeding automated monitoring to publishing companies and such.
@@HolyTubeStudio к чему вопрос был-я отмеряю центр установки,по середине малого и места удара колотушки по бочке(большую направленность имеют высокочастотные звуки),что думаете по этому поводу?(плюс они на разной высоте)
@@ДенисЛукьянов-я5й ну если вы хотите получить моно совместимость и четкую локализацию щелчка бочки в центре оверхедов то это актуально конечно) но обычно все равно индивидуальные микрофоны бочки подмешивают, так что она так и так в центре окажется) бОльший ее вес 😁
X-Y is not properly depicted in the graph. For perfect coincidence, the capsules should be overlapping each other. X-Y will give perfect mono compatibility but not always the most flattering stereo. XxY and ORTF should always be a first try because of the minimum phase discrepancies with other kit mics. All the spaced pair options create completely unsolvable phase relationships. Best of all? One overhead, as low as possible. Time align it to the close snare mic and get the best snare sound ever!
@@artysanmobile But in reality as a musician (especially as a drummer), you hear the kit in stereo with 2 ears. And it generally sounds more natural that way. Is it safe to assume that you are one of those sound engineers who don't play music? -just curious
Mark Geuel I am a producer and professional musician, for over 40 years. The drummer’s perspective of their own instrument is quite meaningless in the scope of a complete composition in most popular music. Drums, as other instruments, are routinely placed in any desired random location in a multichannel mixdown.
Thanks for playing the setups one after the other, it makes for better comparison between placements. This is the first vid I have seen that actually does this, which is surprising.
Excellent demonstration. No talking, just headphones-listening with the mic placement diagram. VERY informative and I thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge
This is the upside to having non-english speaking demonstration
01:11 XY
01:46 ortf
02:20 ab spaced pair
02:54 ab spaced angled
04:02 ab back spaced
03:28 Recorder man
04:40resumen
последний отрезок - просто сок, спасибо
The back spaced pair seems to give the recorderman vibe without the restricted playing space... I like it.
Yeah, I think the same
1:10 XY
1:44 ORTF
2:19 A-B
3:27 Recorderman
i must say the most "natural" sounding was the recorderman.
Good comparison video. That guy really likes to smash his cymbals!
i think XY can be very useful for a lot of musicproductions.. this setup "sets" the drumset in an own "space" and the cymbals in the stereo width sound´s very controlled for me.
I liked the high end crack on the snare with the back spaced pair
You get a little more kick head with back spaced pair then normal spaced pair which gives more clarity and punch, but there is also more room and less cymbals it seems. Great. Probably really good to capture a full and balanced kit with limited mics.
Amazing video! I have never seen someone experiment with angling the spaced pair or do a rear spaced pair, gave me a lot of ideas. Seems to get rid of a lot of that low end and mid that often ends up getting cut out anyways. Very cool.
This is super helpful. Nice and simple, consistent beat with each comparison. Good video.
I liked back spaced pair the best. But then, I like a little room in my drum sound. I often use a similar technique, albeit with the mics in front of the kit rather than behind.
I liked the most recorder man...reminds me on Glen Jones technique if i am correct, one mic above snare the other mic drummer right side..same distance from snare.
I prefer X/Y and M/S. I use A / B to prepare the signal for the rear speakers when preparing the 5.1 surround material. This movie is a great opportunity to listen to each version. I just missed M / S here. Good job. :)
helpful. My ears dug the spaced pair in regular format best, but the recorderman was a close second I will have to try out.
I must agree with mccloysong - excellent video and very helpful - thank you!
Excellent demonstration with quite a few interesting ideas. But i'm starting to wonder why nobody ever seems to talk about Mid-Side-config of overheads. It is easily my most favorite way to place overheads but i almost never see anyone talk about it?
I forgot about the M/S, sorry )))
It's probably because the M/S technique is almost never used for overheads, however commonly used for room miking of the drums.
Great comparison ! Clear and usefull....thanks !
I usually use the x-y patern, but I'm not sure now if I'm doing it out of habit. Listening to this demonstration, I'm not sure any more wich I prefered.
The best sound I EVER got out a recorded kit at home was with one mic going through a Yamaha SPX-90 for added reverb, about 4 feet away from the kit (Tama Artstar kit) in 1984. It was magic. One crash cymbal sounded a little harsh but I was never able to recreate it again. Can't even remember the mic, quite possibly a SM58. My studio at the time was covered wall to ceiling with styrofoam (no longer recommended of course). I try many things at home these days in my new home studio but to be honest, nothing ever sounds professional enough for my liking. I'll listen to what I remember was dynamite sounding (close miced with overheads and room mics) yesterday and realize it's flat and without any punch today and sigh my little sigh and then simply record with my Roland TD-20-KX kit, which never sounds bad. Even when I actually WANT a shitty sounding amateur acoustic drum sound, my Vdrums do that better than my kit as well. It's a never ending battle... and we're all trying!
In all the AB, the kick is too much on the left... Like the ORTF though! Thanks a lot!!!
Studio 427 thx too man)
Excelent! Thank you!!
That was super helpful!
Очень познавательно все объяснили, какая техника для каких целей. Спасибо.
Пажалста)
What stands are you using for the overheads?
Excellent thanks! What are those mics?
In ortf position, maybe "kick" is going to left side. i prefer it is in center
same on AB
I like the XY setup when recording drums. Sounds most natural to me.
Yeah, with very smooth cymbals players it does not work really well, i mean this is okay but you loose a little details on hit hat and ride cymbals, but that is the only exception.
Just me, or is recorderman and back spaced the only tests where the mics aren't two miles away from the set's center?
Спасибо!
good video
thanks!
Am I imagening the fasing issues? I feel like none of the configurations sound clear.
You could be just hearing the very common "whistling" or slight "icepick" of the cymbals, which is very common and acceptable, imo. Just kind of what cymbals do. then again I'm not listening on headphones -But I am hearing some pretty prominent cymbal whistling at times. Creative Soundlab has some pretty amazing cymbal/ overhead micing tutorials up right now. If you find your overheads are out of phase with your snare or kick after recording, don't ever flip the polarity of your kick -Always flip your overheads to meet your kick phase-wise... Cheers!!
i prefer the spaced angle
the recorderman
Loved everything about your presentation...except (sorry) that your poor drummer doesn’t EVER play the toms (more than spastic little boings). Let’s have (next time) a real fill so we can really hear the stereo image. Thanx guys...beautiful job.
What microphone did they use?
Спасибо за сравнение! А что за микрофонный стойки используются?
On stage, или типа того
Were the mics hard panned?
in all examples the microphones was paned at 100 L and R
сбивка утомила))
а вообще - неплохое сравнение!
спасибо
Vlad Muzychenko пажалста )
No mid/side. :-(
How in the world are you gettin away with using Everlong in your video lol, I know copyright says you can use any song for a small amount of time (if the artist doesn't sue you) but the Foo Fighters are pretty picky with the copyrights of their music. Great video!
theRBninja I think the foos wouldn’t mind. They are all nice guys. This guy is just making a video on recording some drums not a trump campaign. XD
@@blackusniggus6249 So I guess you never heard of a publishing company. Very rarely do the actual musicians/writers have a say in this. It's up to the Publisher and lawyers. Unless the Foo Fighters Run their own publishing company that is.
@@blackusniggus6249 oh how i wish i could live in your world of blissful ignorance :P it's not like the foos are sitting there personally and picking through videos, it's all algorithms run by youtube feeding automated monitoring to publishing companies and such.
Great video! What is the ride cymbal?
This is the dark K Series Ziljan ride
Holy Tube Studio Thanks! K custom?
yes)
Здравствуйте,такой вопрос у меня к вам,а разве звук бочки в середине ее возникает?
Он везле возникает
@@HolyTubeStudio к чему вопрос был-я отмеряю центр установки,по середине малого и места удара колотушки по бочке(большую направленность имеют высокочастотные звуки),что думаете по этому поводу?(плюс они на разной высоте)
@@ДенисЛукьянов-я5й ну если вы хотите получить моно совместимость и четкую локализацию щелчка бочки в центре оверхедов то это актуально конечно) но обычно все равно индивидуальные микрофоны бочки подмешивают, так что она так и так в центре окажется) бОльший ее вес 😁
@@HolyTubeStudio я просто делюсь опытом)))мало с кем на такие темы можно пообщаться!А тут я вижу понимание вопроса .респект
@@HolyTubeStudio а что вы для себя выбрали,микрофоны с большой или малой диафрагмой на оверхеды?
XY sounds like shit, AB or recorder man sound pretty good!
recorderman
X-Y is not properly depicted in the graph. For perfect coincidence, the capsules should be overlapping each other. X-Y will give perfect mono compatibility but not always the most flattering stereo. XxY and ORTF should always be a first try because of the minimum phase discrepancies with other kit mics. All the spaced pair options create completely unsolvable phase relationships.
Best of all? One overhead, as low as possible. Time align it to the close snare mic and get the best snare sound ever!
You'd be limiting yourself into mixing the cymbals in mono if that's the case tho
Mark Geuel Obviously. Stereo drums are pretty silly to me for most music.
@@artysanmobile But in reality as a musician (especially as a drummer), you hear the kit in stereo with 2 ears. And it generally sounds more natural that way.
Is it safe to assume that you are one of those sound engineers who don't play music? -just curious
Mark Geuel I am a producer and professional musician, for over 40 years. The drummer’s perspective of their own instrument is quite meaningless in the scope of a complete composition in most popular music. Drums, as other instruments, are routinely placed in any desired random location in a multichannel mixdown.
Peter Yianilos which is in stereo more likely than not 😁
He didn't even hit the floor tom so we can hear the real stereo picture. Get a real drummer.
😆😆😆😆
Thanks for playing the setups one after the other, it makes for better comparison between placements. This is the first vid I have seen that actually does this, which is surprising.
Thanks for the vid and the english subtitles !
У тебя на этом ролике лаже реклама стоит:) 20000 просмотров, 🔥😎
very well done video, I must say, i'm impressed