I dont know who painted the "No Step" sign on a near vertical armor panel, but id like to volunteer them for rock painting duty once they finish all the Pattons.
Tanks do amazing in Alpha Strike. I ran a list where half my force was tanks versus my buddy running all Mechs and he outnumbered me. By the end of turn five he had no mechs left and I had lost half my Mechs and just one tank.
Vehicles are more heavily-armed and armored for the same weight. Ton for ton, they pack more punch. But their armor might as well be mostly for show because they take critical hits so easily. Vehicles are best used as long-ranged support because it's better for a vehicle to take sparser fire from heavier weapons than get lit up at close-range and suffer death by a thousand criticals (though a RAC/2 is still terrifying for them).
I remember when we first used tanks, one of our players hadn't seen the Dragon Magazine that first had tanks in the back. He was walking his Archer past a forest, I opened up on his mech from behind, ripping out his CTR, his reaction "wtf was that?" As his mech toppled...
Mechs are the heart of this franchise, but most of their tanks, dropships and aerospace stuff is also really cool. Mostly because it fills in a lot of the combined arms structure of any military force which is important just on the basic principle that it allows flexible solutions to scale, fills in elements of recon, line combat and integrated force structures. It caters importantly to the less rolling in cash places that feel the need to shoot at each other and anyone else. But might not necessarily have the cash and manpower to run a battlemech force in large numbers or at all.
@@thorveim1174 Plus if you've turned up with a big robot you want to run through some buildings, kick a tank, shoot lasers at planes and punch other robots
I've always preferred the Patton over the Rommel, that ac10 just gives you a little bit more range than the all up close of the Rommel. Now don't get me wrong, the Rommel a scary customer under 9 hexes, I got introduced to that sucker in Cresson Hawkes Revenge those things were impossible to knock out. Ever since then I have a healthy respect for the Rommel. But statistic-wise I'll take a patent over the Rommel give me that extra range on the main gun. I even have two of the pewter Miniatures from ral phartha from the early 90s
Agreed. I think that's why they made the Gauss version. It helps with that. Because "a headshot is a headshot you filthy clanners" is very much still a thing, but now from downtown.
If I need an AC20 tank, I'm more inclined to send in the Demolisher. Why use the tank named after a horrible person when I can have more firepower anyway?
I've always liked the mix up of a few Pattons, Rommels and some Bulldogs in a tank column. Cheap, effective and an absolute terror in an urban environment.
In my experience, about 5. Even with clanner speed and range, a Mad Cat can only take so many hits. You only need about 3 if it's the Gauss or Ultra AC version.
@@kalixascsi66, I remember during a game using "Concealed Vehicle" rules one player in his arrogance thought a vehicle token was either a Skulker or Pegasus or some other light tank but when he saw the sly fox grin on the GM he knew he was in trouble and when the token was flipped to reveal a Gauss Rommel it was game over for his mech 😂
Just one. The Clanner sees my tank impudently shooting at him, the tank backs up and the Clanner charges so he can get the kill by himself, the tank takes punishment on its front armor but keeps going, the mech runs between two trees and trips over the string which I had tied between them, he falls down, my tank goes back into forward and runs over his head. Nothing to it.
@@kalixascsi66 Sounds about right. 5 tanks is a typical platoon. Same tactic the Allies used in WWII. Spotted a Tiger? Send a platoon because a platoon is the smallest tactical unit in a tank army.
One of the finest Battletech vehicles, and a design that aged well; because they stuck to actual tank design logic (with fewer shell traps) than other designs from FASA... I love pairing a platoon of these with a platoon of LRM Carriers. My boys have learned to respect tanks as a result during our games.
We played around with variants. Like replacing the AC20 and LRM5 with two LRM-15 and ammo. Or a Thumper artillery piece. And finally a version dropping the LRM and Flammer for a Beagle and Guardian for a command tank
Shell traps aren't really a thing in modern tank design because apfsds is highly likely to shatter when deflected. And composite armor beats almost all heat rounds in existence. In battletech however, autocannons seem to still fire shells, which makes this design important again.
Patton/Rommel is my favorite tank of BattleTech because it's honestly the most tank-like. It's not trying to drag ten SRM-6s across a 31st-century battlefield for a suicide alpha strike, it's designed to fight... like a tank, except with platoon-level indirect missile barrages.
Great Video; if I were to go into the Table Top game, I'd probably start fielding these since I just genuinely love a combined-arms approach. This was very informative and I thank you!
Watched all of the tex talk battletech videos: UA-cam- hold.... "This will be my last battletech video for awhile" : UA-cam- Recommend him now! First time seeing you, liked the video. Thanks for the recommendation UA-cam, great timing.
The Patton/Rommel is without a doubt, is my favorite non-legged vehicle in the setting. They look awesome, and are awesome, but unfortunely don't hit like an Awesome, well maybe, that battle fist doesn't do that much damage lol
1: Patton > Rommel. 2: Rommel are still awesome and I will be fielding them against that one annoying guy we all have at our LGS who will never stfu about current events. 3: I don't get why anyone is going after Rommel anyway, you'd think the first thing they'd be mad about is that we literally had posters of the guy on tanks during Desert Storm because his tactics inspired the tankers so much. And keep in mind Desert Storm heavily impacted the later era of Battletechs writing, which is why it aged better than a lot of other 80's scifi who didn't think creatively about technology.
Just hearing how it was designed compared to the more "normal" tanks of BattleTech for the time makes me think that this was designed around the purpose of defending heavy industrial areas or cities. Something that would have been very useful to house Steiner because they're size can both be a good and bad thing when it comes to prepared defenses and how expensive that gets. Say what you will about those Lyrans, they do not have enough money to put a Zeus on every planet
Hello Red. Yeah, I see you shuddering out there. The long-winded poster is back. Although this time I will be brief. The Patton and Rommel tanks were a main stay of my forces before my Mercenary company grew large enough to have a full dozen Mechs. They performed well during the initial, 3025 Era of combat, and only got better with the inclusion of tech from the Helm Memory Core. I used them extensively in my tabletop battles, and found them to be cheaper and more reliable than Mechs for many missions. Especially so, for engagements where I could draw the opponent into a 'fire sack' of hidden vehicles. So, in conclusion, I state that the Patton and Rommel Tanks were exceptional vehicles for their time, and only became more relevant later on, due to the relative rarity of Mechs available for use. My playing group acknowledged that Mechs were harder to produce overall, and a bit more costly, but for that cost and difficulty, a Mech could go where no tank could follow. This, was the only real 'drawback' of tanks, in my opinion. But that is a 'normal' thing when comparing Vehicles to Mechs in any case. A well done video, my friend. Excellently done. "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it, by making the other dumb bastard die for his country." George S Patton. Circa 1944 AD, Terra.
Given the fusion engine gives the Patton 10 free HS, dropping the AC/10 for a PPC seems like the obvious thing to do. Ok, I have just thrown up the Patton in Solar Armor Works and replaced it's weapons with a PPC, twin SRM-6 (1 ton of ammo) and twin machineguns in the turret, a machinegun each in the front, left and right side (total of 0.5 tons of MG ammo) and a vehicular flamer in the rear (1 ton of ammo) The PPC keeps the damage but adds a bit more range. If anything gets into minimum range of the PPC, the SRM-6es can deal with it. Between 4 and 9 hexes, everything is in a world of hurt and infantry that tries to swarm it will face either three MGs or two MG plus a flamer - good luck to _those_ grunts! Now cost wise, this thing is listed at 2,923,250 c-bills while the regular Patton comes in at 2,686,063 c-bills. To be honest, I'm perfectly fine in paying an additional 250k for that weapons package. P.s. As an alternative, drop non-turret weapons and go with the PPC, 2 x SRM-6 and either 5 x MGs in the turret or 4 MGs in the turret and two in the bow with half a ton of MG ammo and 2 tons of SMR ammo - the enemy infantry will _love_ that one.
I crewed the M60A3 before switching to the M1series tanks back in the 80s and 90s. I have a soft spot for the Pattons, and I will be loading up on the support packs with these with my kickstarter.
Great video, Red! I really liked hearing about the variants on the Patton and the Rommel. These are great tanks, I love that they are not slow - slugs like the Behemoth have no appeal to me regardless of how many weapons it carries.
Great video of the Patton family of tanks. Just what was needed for it, and made me appreciate them all over again. May have to add some Pattons to the kickstarter pledge later.
I've have a company and spares of this tank to paint up and integrate into my own mercenary unit. They're still in the box that IWM shipped them in all those years ago.
The beautiful thing about the name is that I'm pretty sure ol' George Patton would LOVE living in the Battletech universe. Now, which Great House would he best serve...?
Honestly; I feel like Big Red is the middle ground between Tex Talks Battletech and Grimdark Narrator. Unlike the Narrator it never sounds like he's reading off a wiki and often has good images to use as reference and has a higher quality of editing (IMO) and while the videos *aren't* as good, educational or well edited as Tex's they come much more often and he often covers much more ground.
I like these tanks because they were designed to be tanks. Tanks like the Manticore are designed more like mechs with treads. The Patton was designed to be a tank. Sure, it's "undergunned" for a 65-ton unit. But its actually got enough armor to take hits, enough speed to avoid hits, and the AC-10 can dish out damage at a decent enough range that some 80-ton monster can't just stomp on you. A couple lances of these guys (especially if you throw in a Rommel or two to nail anyone trying to get close enough to stomp you) can handle most heavy lances It's also a very generic platform. You can switch out that AC-10 for a couple of LRM-15s or a PPC and enough heat sinks to fire it constantly. And that adaptability only increases as the tech-base goes up (and you start getting Gauss rifles and double heat sinks and light-weigh clan weapons).
Always preffered the Rommel variant, but hey i love me Hunchbacks and Urbanmechs so there ya go. But seriously, a cheap ish defensive orientred mobile AC20 always made sense to me. EDIT: Gauss or PPC Rommel? New favorites!
Anything with an AC/10 gets my c-bills. Bang away, Patton! Core ‘em! We can sell what’s left! I like this machine. Nippy, tough… decent enough gun. Yep. I’d add this to my roster. The Rommel… well, it’s horrible to have facing you up close, but of the two, I’d take the Patton. As I’ve said before, I think the AC/20 is often a terror weapon, and not necessarily a tactically flexible piece of ordinance. Mind you, the extra ammo capacity overcomes that problem because it can bang away for a long time - so, while I don’t like having a main gun that only has a few shots in it, maybe I’m running off of pre-existing bias rather than what’s actually on the machine. I do agree that with the Patton alongside it, it becomes even more scary, so it definitely has a place. Maybe one of these for every two Pattons. The Axel seems like it can’t make its mind up - up close or far away? Again, as I’ve said before, not a fan of mix-and-match armament. If rather be able to alpha strike and eliminate a threat if I can, than “keep my options open” on a single machine. I get why people do it - I’m not saying it’s a silly idea; I’m saying it’s not my jam. (This doesn’t include the clan models, but then the clans can log off as far as I’m concerned 😜) Grand video, captain! Nice work!
Great video!👏 I'm new to BT, but I must admit tanks are what captivated me first before mechs. My first BT minature purchase was the Rommel Howitzer Tanks.
Underguned? With all that armor some compromise had to be had. Still it seems like a tank that's ment to hunt fellow tanks, APCs, IFVs exct....but it has a chance it can survive if forced into a tank vs mech fight.
Regarding the story that the Rommel was being a removed, in the midst of all that, a certain prominent member of the fandom who happens to have the same initials as Bull Shit was saying a tank named after Rommel had no place in the setting (along with his other pet peeve, IS mech warriors being in their undies because their cooling vests are crap). This lent credence to the rumor that it was being removed.
Why would they have an issue with mechwarriors being in their underwear? I always found that to be a fun little lore quirk that humanized Mechwarriors a bit. After all, they may be thw kings of the battlefield, but the knowledge that they're stripped down to their skivvies, pouring sweat and genuinely pushing through the pain as they push their machines to the limit makes them more interesting to me.
Thank god though that you can still easily enough field rommels with a patton model as they are variants of eachother (also i think the tank still exists in canon, its just not going to be mentioned again). But yeah every time real life politics affect a fictional setting, it unvariably sucks, and that decision here was motivated purely by current day nonsense politics.
Tracked are more sturdy and can traverse light woods but are slow; hovers are fast and can traverse water, but are the most fragile (see motive critical hit tables); wheeled are mostly somewhere between but have most terrain restrictions. Manticore is the better main battle tank (somebody may disagree), slower but more powerful ones (Demolisher, Schrek) don't qualify as main battle tanks, and light tanks (Galleon, Scorpion) have a place in poor world militias as speed bumps if nothing else. Hovercraft are good for recon (J. Edgars) and light combat (Saracen, Saladin) in open/wet terrain. Wheeled vehicles (Striker, Hetzer) have certain cheap low tech charm to them. Even most protected vehicles like Patton tend to get immobilised under fire (SRM & LB-X Cluster spam are the worst), so right combination of speed and weapon range is advised. SRM Carrier is the worst, unless it is in favorable terrain or covering LRM Carriers. When setting up a scenario, take movement speed in general into consideration: combination of slow tanks (or 'Mechs) and fast hovercraft is justifiable when tanks are defending a location and hovercraft are coming from further away to reinforce the defense.
Tank to me in Battletech conjures up the Von Luckner or the Vedette. The Patton is an excellent tank, but its limited spread to Fedcom partners or Steiner sales sources like the Regulan Fiefs or the Marian Hegemony lessens its impact on the setting as a whole. This is an excellent video covering the Patton.
Patton isn't bad by any means, but it has too much armor and not enough firepower. In my experience, Pattons tend to get immobilised and turret locked. In such situation, weapon range may not be enough to make significant contribution. Dear God if they encounter LBX and/or missile spam. Still better than Hetzer assault gun.
I smoked a fair few of these today, but for what it's worth, they're among those assets fielded by foes faced in MW5 that make me tense a little, knowing I want to bring them down sooner rather than later. Solid tank, and one that I respect for it's battlefield capabilities, even when I am in a heavily modified Cyclops or Atlas.
It always confused me that durring the succesion wars there was no proper MBT along the lines of the patton. Imagine a MBT with an urbies armaments and a combustion engine stationed en mass on borderworlds. Those would be TERRIFYING for invasionforces
@@koonfasa The thing is, the succesion wars were a time of ridiculous downgrades. A nation like the capellan confederation pumping out cheap tanks akin to modern MBTs armed with AC10s and some sort of secondary anti infantry weapons would be an easy solution to the lack of battlemech production. Any world worth defending should have the capabilities of producing cold war equipment of that type in sufficient numbers to make invasions really uncomfortable.
I always wonder why Steiner did not use the chassis for more tasks (Yes, in game that was to sell more minis). In universe using this for a Sturmfeuer-style missile tank for example would have made a lot of sense in universe (less logistics). A twin heavy laser armed AA tank and a mobile Thumper or Sniper SpH would also work nicely
The Inner Sphere Great Houses: I can't decide if I want a tank that's fast, heavily armored or heavily armed. If only someone could make a tank with all 3 attributes... The Clans: Hold my beer.
The Pattons lower profile also allowed it to be carried in small craft instead of full dropships. This gave it some operational flexibility and small tactical advantage in some cases.
For defensive garrisons, AFVs make more sense- they're cheaper, and good ones like Manticore and Rommel can take out Mechs their own weight. Supplemented with aircraft to herd Mechs and engage them where tracks and hovercraft can't go. What the Mech gives us is mobility- you can't drop tanks from orbit. The Patton family of tanks might be the best in the game for their time and niche (yes, even the Axel ICE- it's a infantry support gun and self deploying speedbump)
I really question the addition of an LRM 5. Unless you're being a cheeky @r$3 with specialty ammo or trying to irritate someone, it's pretty pitiful armament. Though some alternate ammo types could let you be very cheeky. And I guess when you have a lance, there's just enough tubes to do real damage at range, even with standard.
Just like the YaG-10 (29K) is the bane of all tanks up to BR 5.0, a tank with a bigass gun can fight mechs way above its weight. "We have the same gun and I'm a smaller target."
man I wish this tank had a 1/35 scale model kit, it looks hella badass, I know nothing of battletech and yet I want one of these bastards on my shelf next to its ancient terran forebearers like the challenger 2 and the M60 patton
The Patton and Rommel are less known to me. The Manticore is similar and more common. I like the Manticore for having a nice balance of short-medium-long range weapons. The Patton is not so fortunate, but it is well armored. Ive heard the Patton and Rommel with be removed from Battletech because of their names.
I enjoyed the video, it's been really good to get an overview of so many of the none mechs in the setting. It helps to make the setting feel more alive. As a question does anyone know what tank is suppose to be in the image shown in the outro?
If you use the Axel as an Urban ambusher with a secondary indirect support role, I don't see the speed being an issue. Also, the XL Patton isn't on Sarna. The Space Boy is though.
The main reasons that tanks a made with low profiles are: it was found after WWII that hits on tanks were more toward the top above 2 m; the weight of armor for a given level of defense is proportional to the forward facing surface area (the sides, rear, and rear are less armored); and lastly, lower profile means harder to see.
One thing you didn't mention with the I.C. engines is that they get one more vehicle explosion spot. The fuel would be a bit less of a problem really as the tanks are mainly meant for planetary defense and most planets in the IS are not like Earth with extensive inhabited areas and great distances to lead combat operations over.
Call me old-fashioned, but I still have a love for the WWI-era British Mk. IV "Male" tank for some reason. I'd love to see a version in BattleTech sometime. But when I think of tanks in BT, I think of the Demolisher or the Shreck PPC Carrier, not the Patton. After this video, I may be changing my mind somewhat, however.
@@admiraltorvosaurus8513 Very true--it was a good machine for its time, but modern warfare changed so dramatically that even if it were heavily upgraded it still wouldn't stand a chance against even obsolete WWII tanks like the Panzer or the Patton, let alone modern machines like the Abrams or its Russian counterpart. I just love it because I think it looks really cool, even though I know its very design makes it obsolete.
I have loved using tanks in Battletech since... well I don't want to age myself, but I'll say since the Battletech Compendium was a thing. I'd have to say that when I think "tank" in Battletech, I think of the Manticore, mostly because I believe it (in its original incarnation) was superior to the Patton.
*"I was there, the day that Horus slew the Emperor."*
~George S. Patton
I dont know who painted the "No Step" sign on a near vertical armor panel, but id like to volunteer them for rock painting duty once they finish all the Pattons.
Maybe it's No Step like the Gadsen Flag 😂
@@bigkahuna1510 NO STEP ON TANK!
@@indignantlamentation6307*Laughs in Highlander*
Could be part of the tank's sensor package, a panel that is invisible to radar beams, but scratch it and it gives false readings.
Probably a bored tech being a smart ass to the local militia
It's good to see that even in a world of giant stompy 'Mechs, there will always be a place for tanks.
Mechs are cool, but in the real world I think tanks will ever truly be obsolete.
I love that tanks in battletech are still a gigantic threat, manticores, shreks, partisans for me especially, long range bastards
Tanks do amazing in Alpha Strike. I ran a list where half my force was tanks versus my buddy running all Mechs and he outnumbered me. By the end of turn five he had no mechs left and I had lost half my Mechs and just one tank.
@@Oddball_1943 Demolishers are my personal panic attack. :P
Hey with everyone making omnimechs pretty soon nobody will be able to afford mechs LOL
I'll always like how tanks have their place in Battletech, with Battlemechs not replacing them and the two not being mutually exclusive.
Vehicles are more heavily-armed and armored for the same weight. Ton for ton, they pack more punch. But their armor might as well be mostly for show because they take critical hits so easily. Vehicles are best used as long-ranged support because it's better for a vehicle to take sparser fire from heavier weapons than get lit up at close-range and suffer death by a thousand criticals (though a RAC/2 is still terrifying for them).
When you look at the price, Vehicles are the more efficient option.
Unfortunately without Mechs to secure the LZ planetary invasions are impossible.
The biggest problem with the Axel is that it comes in a tiny boy and you have to build it yourself with a hex key.
I've heard the new management at Ikea is really mean too, and doesn't like Spheroids. XD
@@BigRed40TECH Aff, but their Swedish meatballs are absolutely to die for. 😉
@@kitirena_koneko The KKKlan variant uses trueborn who fail to test as warriors....
Never underestimate a tank. Once confused a player when he learned my little tank had more armor than a battlemech.
I remember when we first used tanks, one of our players hadn't seen the Dragon Magazine that first had tanks in the back. He was walking his Archer past a forest, I opened up on his mech from behind, ripping out his CTR, his reaction "wtf was that?" As his mech toppled...
@@donaldcampbell3043 Always fun to knock a mech down
Battle tech is known for its mechs. But my god it has the COOLEST tanks and vehicles of any sci fi setting.
[ *Steel Commanders intensifies* ]
Mechs are the heart of this franchise, but most of their tanks, dropships and aerospace stuff is also really cool. Mostly because it fills in a lot of the combined arms structure of any military force which is important just on the basic principle that it allows flexible solutions to scale, fills in elements of recon, line combat and integrated force structures. It caters importantly to the less rolling in cash places that feel the need to shoot at each other and anyone else. But might not necessarily have the cash and manpower to run a battlemech force in large numbers or at all.
And besides, mechs feel that mich more special and cool when fielded next to more conventional vehicles
@@thorveim1174 Plus if you've turned up with a big robot you want to run through some buildings, kick a tank, shoot lasers at planes and punch other robots
Commanders win battles.
The quartermaster win wars.
If you are a British quartermaster a few kilometers from Rorkes Rift, you can lose a battle.
I've always preferred the Patton over the Rommel, that ac10 just gives you a little bit more range than the all up close of the Rommel. Now don't get me wrong, the Rommel a scary customer under 9 hexes, I got introduced to that sucker in Cresson Hawkes Revenge those things were impossible to knock out. Ever since then I have a healthy respect for the Rommel. But statistic-wise I'll take a patent over the Rommel give me that extra range on the main gun. I even have two of the pewter Miniatures from ral phartha from the early 90s
Autocorrect is not your friend
@@MrFleem (cough), and text to speech and being in a hurry 🙂 . Fixed now 😎.
Agreed. I think that's why they made the Gauss version. It helps with that. Because "a headshot is a headshot you filthy clanners" is very much still a thing, but now from downtown.
More armor too.
If I need an AC20 tank, I'm more inclined to send in the Demolisher. Why use the tank named after a horrible person when I can have more firepower anyway?
I've always liked the mix up of a few Pattons, Rommels and some Bulldogs in a tank column. Cheap, effective and an absolute terror in an urban environment.
Now we have to ask ourselves how many Pattons can have a fighting chance against a Timber Wolf
How many do you have?
In my experience, about 5. Even with clanner speed and range, a Mad Cat can only take so many hits. You only need about 3 if it's the Gauss or Ultra AC version.
@@kalixascsi66, I remember during a game using "Concealed Vehicle" rules one player in his arrogance thought a vehicle token was either a Skulker or Pegasus or some other light tank but when he saw the sly fox grin on the GM he knew he was in trouble and when the token was flipped to reveal a Gauss Rommel it was game over for his mech 😂
Just one. The Clanner sees my tank impudently shooting at him, the tank backs up and the Clanner charges so he can get the kill by himself, the tank takes punishment on its front armor but keeps going, the mech runs between two trees and trips over the string which I had tied between them, he falls down, my tank goes back into forward and runs over his head. Nothing to it.
@@kalixascsi66 Sounds about right. 5 tanks is a typical platoon. Same tactic the Allies used in WWII. Spotted a Tiger? Send a platoon because a platoon is the smallest tactical unit in a tank army.
There is always a place for the Patton, I really like it.
You magnificent bastard, I read your book!
The last great opportunity of a lifetime - an entire world at war, and I'm left out of it? God will not permit this to happen!
As through a glass and darkly, the age-old strife I see.
One of the finest Battletech vehicles, and a design that aged well; because they stuck to actual tank design logic (with fewer shell traps) than other designs from FASA... I love pairing a platoon of these with a platoon of LRM Carriers. My boys have learned to respect tanks as a result during our games.
We played around with variants. Like replacing the AC20 and LRM5 with two LRM-15 and ammo. Or a Thumper artillery piece. And finally a version dropping the LRM and Flammer for a Beagle and Guardian for a command tank
Shell traps aren't really a thing in modern tank design because apfsds is highly likely to shatter when deflected. And composite armor beats almost all heat rounds in existence. In battletech however, autocannons seem to still fire shells, which makes this design important again.
Axel IIC (XL) be like: Float like a butterfly sting like a cocaine bear.
Yea, it's vicious.
Finally! My favorite tank! The Rommel/Patton! I have a company of these tanks.
Patton/Rommel is my favorite tank of BattleTech because it's honestly the most tank-like. It's not trying to drag ten SRM-6s across a 31st-century battlefield for a suicide alpha strike, it's designed to fight... like a tank, except with platoon-level indirect missile barrages.
Great Video; if I were to go into the Table Top game, I'd probably start fielding these since I just genuinely love a combined-arms approach. This was very informative and I thank you!
Same it's the only reason I am so excited for the current Kickstarter is I can actually field an army.
Watched all of the tex talk battletech videos: UA-cam- hold....
"This will be my last battletech video for awhile" : UA-cam- Recommend him now!
First time seeing you, liked the video. Thanks for the recommendation UA-cam, great timing.
You should check out the Rakshasa video ;)
The Patton/Rommel is without a doubt, is my favorite non-legged vehicle in the setting. They look awesome, and are awesome, but unfortunely don't hit like an Awesome, well maybe, that battle fist doesn't do that much damage lol
1: Patton > Rommel.
2: Rommel are still awesome and I will be fielding them against that one annoying guy we all have at our LGS who will never stfu about current events.
3: I don't get why anyone is going after Rommel anyway, you'd think the first thing they'd be mad about is that we literally had posters of the guy on tanks during Desert Storm because his tactics inspired the tankers so much. And keep in mind Desert Storm heavily impacted the later era of Battletechs writing, which is why it aged better than a lot of other 80's scifi who didn't think creatively about technology.
Thanks big red
Rasalhague Dominion goes zoom zoom. 😄
I 3D printed some Pattons recently (Sir Mortimer Bombito) they are beautiful.
Just hearing how it was designed compared to the more "normal" tanks of BattleTech for the time makes me think that this was designed around the purpose of defending heavy industrial areas or cities. Something that would have been very useful to house Steiner because they're size can both be a good and bad thing when it comes to prepared defenses and how expensive that gets.
Say what you will about those Lyrans, they do not have enough money to put a Zeus on every planet
NGL, when I hear 'Battletech tank' I think Demolisher or Bulldog. these are the most common I play / come up against.
Hello Red.
Yeah, I see you shuddering out there. The long-winded poster is back.
Although this time I will be brief. The Patton and Rommel tanks were a main stay of my forces before my Mercenary company grew large enough to have a full dozen Mechs. They performed well during the initial, 3025 Era of combat, and only got better with the inclusion of tech from the Helm Memory Core.
I used them extensively in my tabletop battles, and found them to be cheaper and more reliable than Mechs for many missions. Especially so, for engagements where I could draw the opponent into a 'fire sack' of hidden vehicles.
So, in conclusion, I state that the Patton and Rommel Tanks were exceptional vehicles for their time, and only became more relevant later on, due to the relative rarity of Mechs available for use. My playing group acknowledged that Mechs were harder to produce overall, and a bit more costly, but for that cost and difficulty, a Mech could go where no tank could follow. This, was the only real 'drawback' of tanks, in my opinion. But that is a 'normal' thing when comparing Vehicles to Mechs in any case.
A well done video, my friend. Excellently done.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it, by making the other dumb bastard die for his country." George S Patton. Circa 1944 AD, Terra.
"It's too slow to outrun a problem." Me too, little buddy. Stay strong.
Given the fusion engine gives the Patton 10 free HS, dropping the AC/10 for a PPC seems like the obvious thing to do.
Ok, I have just thrown up the Patton in Solar Armor Works and replaced it's weapons with a PPC, twin SRM-6 (1 ton of ammo) and twin machineguns in the turret, a machinegun each in the front, left and right side (total of 0.5 tons of MG ammo) and a vehicular flamer in the rear (1 ton of ammo)
The PPC keeps the damage but adds a bit more range.
If anything gets into minimum range of the PPC, the SRM-6es can deal with it.
Between 4 and 9 hexes, everything is in a world of hurt and infantry that tries to swarm it will face either three MGs or two MG plus a flamer - good luck to _those_ grunts!
Now cost wise, this thing is listed at 2,923,250 c-bills while the regular Patton comes in at 2,686,063 c-bills.
To be honest, I'm perfectly fine in paying an additional 250k for that weapons package.
P.s. As an alternative, drop non-turret weapons and go with the PPC, 2 x SRM-6 and either 5 x MGs in the turret or 4 MGs in the turret and two in the bow with half a ton of MG ammo and 2 tons of SMR ammo - the enemy infantry will _love_ that one.
MINE Fuhrer...Patton...
performed beyond all expectations!
Stiener shall have more the sufficient force!
These are like the perfect class of tanks (60tonish) to run in Roguetech!
They aren't bad in BTA either, but my tank slots are usually taken up by LRM carriers
I crewed the M60A3 before switching to the M1series tanks back in the 80s and 90s. I have a soft spot for the Pattons, and I will be loading up on the support packs with these with my kickstarter.
I knew patton was a little nuts but i didnt realize he was full blown insanszies
Mammoth Tank is my immediate thought
Would have thought the Scorpion was THE tank of Battletech. The thing is legitimately everywhere.
Great video, Red! I really liked hearing about the variants on the Patton and the Rommel. These are great tanks, I love that they are not slow - slugs like the Behemoth have no appeal to me regardless of how many weapons it carries.
Great video of the Patton family of tanks. Just what was needed for it, and made me appreciate them all over again. May have to add some Pattons to the kickstarter pledge later.
I'm so hyped for the battle and sweep pack, would love a video on the Pike as well
SRM tanks can be pretty deadly also. They seem like a hybrid artillery barrage vehicle with guided warheads.
Infinetely better versus tanks too....
I've have a company and spares of this tank to paint up and integrate into my own mercenary unit. They're still in the box that IWM shipped them in all those years ago.
As usual, another great vid :)
Great video! I want a table full of these!!!
And you can have them! Check out the Mercenaries Kickstarter :P
another exelent video as always Big Red if we hit 7mil I know what force pack I'm adding to the list
The beautiful thing about the name is that I'm pretty sure ol' George Patton would LOVE living in the Battletech universe. Now, which Great House would he best serve...?
Davion. IMO they are basically space America
Probably the FedSuns: War with Liao AND Kurita? He'd never run out of foes.
Honestly; I feel like Big Red is the middle ground between Tex Talks Battletech and Grimdark Narrator. Unlike the Narrator it never sounds like he's reading off a wiki and often has good images to use as reference and has a higher quality of editing (IMO) and while the videos *aren't* as good, educational or well edited as Tex's they come much more often and he often covers much more ground.
Great video and breakdown
I like these tanks because they were designed to be tanks. Tanks like the Manticore are designed more like mechs with treads. The Patton was designed to be a tank. Sure, it's "undergunned" for a 65-ton unit. But its actually got enough armor to take hits, enough speed to avoid hits, and the AC-10 can dish out damage at a decent enough range that some 80-ton monster can't just stomp on you. A couple lances of these guys (especially if you throw in a Rommel or two to nail anyone trying to get close enough to stomp you) can handle most heavy lances
It's also a very generic platform. You can switch out that AC-10 for a couple of LRM-15s or a PPC and enough heat sinks to fire it constantly. And that adaptability only increases as the tech-base goes up (and you start getting Gauss rifles and double heat sinks and light-weigh clan weapons).
Always preffered the Rommel variant, but hey i love me Hunchbacks and Urbanmechs so there ya go.
But seriously, a cheap ish defensive orientred mobile AC20 always made sense to me.
EDIT: Gauss or PPC Rommel? New favorites!
Axel and Demolisher seem more appealing AC20 carriers.
As long as a mech doesn't have jump jets, a pair of Demolishers is likely to win.
Outstanding work sir. Hope you feel better soon.
Anything with an AC/10 gets my c-bills. Bang away, Patton! Core ‘em! We can sell what’s left!
I like this machine. Nippy, tough… decent enough gun. Yep. I’d add this to my roster. The Rommel… well, it’s horrible to have facing you up close, but of the two, I’d take the Patton. As I’ve said before, I think the AC/20 is often a terror weapon, and not necessarily a tactically flexible piece of ordinance. Mind you, the extra ammo capacity overcomes that problem because it can bang away for a long time - so, while I don’t like having a main gun that only has a few shots in it, maybe I’m running off of pre-existing bias rather than what’s actually on the machine. I do agree that with the Patton alongside it, it becomes even more scary, so it definitely has a place. Maybe one of these for every two Pattons.
The Axel seems like it can’t make its mind up - up close or far away? Again, as I’ve said before, not a fan of mix-and-match armament. If rather be able to alpha strike and eliminate a threat if I can, than “keep my options open” on a single machine. I get why people do it - I’m not saying it’s a silly idea; I’m saying it’s not my jam. (This doesn’t include the clan models, but then the clans can log off as far as I’m concerned 😜)
Grand video, captain! Nice work!
Solid battle-tanks will be in the lexicon of humanity forever.
It great video can't wait to get my hand on this tank.
Great video!👏
I'm new to BT, but I must admit tanks are what captivated me first before mechs. My first BT minature purchase was the Rommel Howitzer Tanks.
Underguned? With all that armor some compromise had to be had. Still it seems like a tank that's ment to hunt fellow tanks, APCs, IFVs exct....but it has a chance it can survive if forced into a tank vs mech fight.
This actually pushed me over the edge on the kickstarter. I am thinking one or two of these, a demolisher, and something fast, should be good fun.
Only a few hours left if you're going to get in. These are an awesome kit though. I can't wait for it myself.
The "Don't Step on Me!" Tank.
Regarding the story that the Rommel was being a removed, in the midst of all that, a certain prominent member of the fandom who happens to have the same initials as Bull Shit was saying a tank named after Rommel had no place in the setting (along with his other pet peeve, IS mech warriors being in their undies because their cooling vests are crap). This lent credence to the rumor that it was being removed.
It was just people making noise all the same.
@@BigRed40TECH empty cans rattle loudest
@@tullyDT
I wish bull shit would die in a fire.
Why would they have an issue with mechwarriors being in their underwear? I always found that to be a fun little lore quirk that humanized Mechwarriors a bit. After all, they may be thw kings of the battlefield, but the knowledge that they're stripped down to their skivvies, pouring sweat and genuinely pushing through the pain as they push their machines to the limit makes them more interesting to me.
Thank god though that you can still easily enough field rommels with a patton model as they are variants of eachother (also i think the tank still exists in canon, its just not going to be mentioned again).
But yeah every time real life politics affect a fictional setting, it unvariably sucks, and that decision here was motivated purely by current day nonsense politics.
thank you
*YEESSS THE AXEL*
Ikea's new management is mean. XD
Thank you for working when not feeling well... Let the cleansing fires of Battletech heal you.
Looking forward to this, I'm fairly new to battletech and need to learn more about the vehicles not just the mechs
combined arms gives use to mechs that have not been optimised for fighting other mechs
@@tullyDT which is great new because I love the Komodo
Tracked are more sturdy and can traverse light woods but are slow; hovers are fast and can traverse water, but are the most fragile (see motive critical hit tables); wheeled are mostly somewhere between but have most terrain restrictions. Manticore is the better main battle tank (somebody may disagree), slower but more powerful ones (Demolisher, Schrek) don't qualify as main battle tanks, and light tanks (Galleon, Scorpion) have a place in poor world militias as speed bumps if nothing else. Hovercraft are good for recon (J. Edgars) and light combat (Saracen, Saladin) in open/wet terrain. Wheeled vehicles (Striker, Hetzer) have certain cheap low tech charm to them.
Even most protected vehicles like Patton tend to get immobilised under fire (SRM & LB-X Cluster spam are the worst), so right combination of speed and weapon range is advised. SRM Carrier is the worst, unless it is in favorable terrain or covering LRM Carriers. When setting up a scenario, take movement speed in general into consideration: combination of slow tanks (or 'Mechs) and fast hovercraft is justifiable when tanks are defending a location and hovercraft are coming from further away to reinforce the defense.
Tank to me in Battletech conjures up the Von Luckner or the Vedette. The Patton is an excellent tank, but its limited spread to Fedcom partners or Steiner sales sources like the Regulan Fiefs or the Marian Hegemony lessens its impact on the setting as a whole. This is an excellent video covering the Patton.
It's now in the entire Inner Sphere for the Ilclan era. :)
So the only important inner Sphere nation had it. And in 3028 they even shared it with one of the lesser nations of the Inner Sphere. Nice of them
Definitely can't wait for this tank to be available. Got plans to paint them up in WW2 german ambush camo.
Under armed? Anything that has an AC-10 is good enough for me.
Alacorn! The Guasszilla of tanks!
Patton isn't bad by any means, but it has too much armor and not enough firepower. In my experience, Pattons tend to get immobilised and turret locked. In such situation, weapon range may not be enough to make significant contribution. Dear God if they encounter LBX and/or missile spam. Still better than Hetzer assault gun.
I’m a fan of hetzers in cities; cheap but dangerous
Sweet!
The Rommel
I smoked a fair few of these today, but for what it's worth, they're among those assets fielded by foes faced in MW5 that make me tense a little, knowing I want to bring them down sooner rather than later. Solid tank, and one that I respect for it's battlefield capabilities, even when I am in a heavily modified Cyclops or Atlas.
It always confused me that durring the succesion wars there was no proper MBT along the lines of the patton. Imagine a MBT with an urbies armaments and a combustion engine stationed en mass on borderworlds. Those would be TERRIFYING for invasionforces
Urbies are just a bad mech tbh. I'd take tanks over an Urbie any day.
Mechs became the main battle tank. Speaking of which, I recently bought MBT mainly coz I wanted to say I upgraded from classic Battletech…
@@koonfasa The thing is, the succesion wars were a time of ridiculous downgrades. A nation like the capellan confederation pumping out cheap tanks akin to modern MBTs armed with AC10s and some sort of secondary anti infantry weapons would be an easy solution to the lack of battlemech production. Any world worth defending should have the capabilities of producing cold war equipment of that type in sufficient numbers to make invasions really uncomfortable.
Great Video. I had always thought the Rommel was the same as the Patton but carried a PPC instead of the A/C. Another thing the group taught me wrong.
I always wonder why Steiner did not use the chassis for more tasks (Yes, in game that was to sell more minis). In universe using this for a Sturmfeuer-style missile tank for example would have made a lot of sense in universe (less logistics). A twin heavy laser armed AA tank and a mobile Thumper or Sniper SpH would also work nicely
The Inner Sphere Great Houses: I can't decide if I want a tank that's fast, heavily armored or heavily armed. If only someone could make a tank with all 3 attributes...
The Clans: Hold my beer.
That's odd... Comparable weight modern tanks that use combustion engines can go up to 60kph...
I guess the Star League Ton is just bigger.
Yay for tanks...
The Pattons lower profile also allowed it to be carried in small craft instead of full dropships. This gave it some operational flexibility and small tactical advantage in some cases.
Patton and Manticore, the classic MBTs of the 31st century.
For defensive garrisons, AFVs make more sense- they're cheaper, and good ones like Manticore and Rommel can take out Mechs their own weight. Supplemented with aircraft to herd Mechs and engage them where tracks and hovercraft can't go. What the Mech gives us is mobility- you can't drop tanks from orbit. The Patton family of tanks might be the best in the game for their time and niche (yes, even the Axel ICE- it's a infantry support gun and self deploying speedbump)
Romnel is nice and all, but my mind goes the he Demolisher, Po, and Bulldog before it when I think tank in the setting.
Cool ty
I really question the addition of an LRM 5. Unless you're being a cheeky @r$3 with specialty ammo or trying to irritate someone, it's pretty pitiful armament. Though some alternate ammo types could let you be very cheeky. And I guess when you have a lance, there's just enough tubes to do real damage at range, even with standard.
Crap I forgot this premiered today
The Capellan Po was called the poor mans Rommel Patton.
Imagine Rush-Pancaking one of these, only to see it go critical and suddenly both your mech's legs = 0 internals
Just like the YaG-10 (29K) is the bane of all tanks up to BR 5.0, a tank with a bigass gun can fight mechs way above its weight.
"We have the same gun and I'm a smaller target."
Nice! One of my favorite tanks in Battletech.
Do you have any plans on covering some of the smaller afvs like the J. Edgar and Harasser platforms?
In the future maybe. But this is the last vehicle I cover for the KS.
I must be weird. When I think of tanks, I think of the Po, the manticore, the goblin, the scorpion, and the vedette
Like the stand off armor on the rear of the turret. Considering how front heavy the turret is, its a good to have that weight at the rear.
man I wish this tank had a 1/35 scale model kit, it looks hella badass, I know nothing of battletech and yet I want one of these bastards on my shelf next to its ancient terran forebearers like the challenger 2 and the M60 patton
The Patton and Rommel are less known to me. The Manticore is similar and more common. I like the Manticore for having a nice balance of short-medium-long range weapons. The Patton is not so fortunate, but it is well armored.
Ive heard the Patton and Rommel with be removed from Battletech because of their names.
Actually 57 hours to go on the kickstarter as I type this and just shy of £5 million ($6.19 milliion)
I finished making it yesterday, I was just approximating lol
I enjoyed the video, it's been really good to get an overview of so many of the none mechs in the setting. It helps to make the setting feel more alive. As a question does anyone know what tank is suppose to be in the image shown in the outro?
Scorpion iirc.
Thanks shame it's not one from the kickstarter packs I was going to get it XD oh well plenty of cool tanks to pick from instead
If you use the Axel as an Urban ambusher with a secondary indirect support role, I don't see the speed being an issue.
Also, the XL Patton isn't on Sarna. The Space Boy is though.
The main reasons that tanks a made with low profiles are: it was found after WWII that hits on tanks were more toward the top above 2 m; the weight of armor for a given level of defense is proportional to the forward facing surface area (the sides, rear, and rear are less armored); and lastly, lower profile means harder to see.
One thing you didn't mention with the I.C. engines is that they get one more vehicle explosion spot. The fuel would be a bit less of a problem really as the tanks are mainly meant for planetary defense and most planets in the IS are not like Earth with extensive inhabited areas and great distances to lead combat operations over.
Patton reminds me of the Centurion in tank form
Call me old-fashioned, but I still have a love for the WWI-era British Mk. IV "Male" tank for some reason. I'd love to see a version in BattleTech sometime. But when I think of tanks in BT, I think of the Demolisher or the Shreck PPC Carrier, not the Patton. After this video, I may be changing my mind somewhat, however.
No, your not the only one who thinks of the Mk. VI when you here tank. It is awsome, but because of how armor works, is not for modern warfare.
@@admiraltorvosaurus8513 Very true--it was a good machine for its time, but modern warfare changed so dramatically that even if it were heavily upgraded it still wouldn't stand a chance against even obsolete WWII tanks like the Panzer or the Patton, let alone modern machines like the Abrams or its Russian counterpart. I just love it because I think it looks really cool, even though I know its very design makes it obsolete.
I have loved using tanks in Battletech since... well I don't want to age myself, but I'll say since the Battletech Compendium was a thing. I'd have to say that when I think "tank" in Battletech, I think of the Manticore, mostly because I believe it (in its original incarnation) was superior to the Patton.