Fascinating! Sadly I have heard people follow the click like following the baton rather than locking in with the click. For me a major hurdle was passed when I understood the importance of finger articulation rather than just thinking about the tongue. I am reminded of a video of Ron Carter the bassist giving a lesson and when Mr. Carter took the bass, he locked in with the metronome in a way I describe as beautiful, real magic.
More than some, I’m afraid. The key word is “following.” Being a good follower is one thing, but real ensemble playing is beyond that. Thanks for the comment!
Imagine my delight when I heard that you actually followed up on my comment about TE Tuner! Imagine my disappointment when you skipped right over addressing the actual point of the comments to just run down the app for having lots of bells and whistles. That's ok - I'm still a big fan of both you and the app - and I certainly don't think you are wrong about the importance of the physical nature of musical pulse. It's a great way to understand and internalize it. I'd even agree that it's crucial. HOWEVER, it's also not the only way and to insist that it is seems sadly limiting. Thanks for another entertaining and informative presentation.
I’m sorry to disappoint you! I may be misremembering comments, but I thought the point was that the app’s feature of randomly omitting beats would develop the same rhythmic integrity as being able to play with a pulse of one or two beats per bar, or two bars per beat. I think randomly omitting beats still enables emphasis on the beat, and that a player’s ability to play despite missing beats is not necessarily the same thing as feeling the rhythm flow to its destination. If the player reacts to the beat even though it didn’t sound, nothing has been gained. To be fair, it is possible to learn to react better, and still hit the bar line with a slow metronome without anticipation, but it is fairly obvious when the student is feeling for it rather than swinging with confidence. If it seems I have a bee in my bonnet about this thing of feeling the pulse rather than reacting to the beat that’s a fair cop, but it’s my reaction to my reality as a teacher. Yehuda Gilad probably doesn’t have these kinds of problems. When I have a student who CANNOT play a three sixteenth pickup without sniffing on the sixteenth rest and coming in late, anticipating rather than reacting is the hammer I pick up. “Bells and whistles” like sixteenth note subdivision may give the impression that the student is playing in rhythm, but actually do nothing to solve the problem. In my experience. So my intention was not to run down the app, it was to run down complicated metronomes in general. We can’t all expect to agree on the goodness of various things, and I know that at least one person on the web disagrees with me about virtually everything. Which I why I am particularly appreciative when someone disagrees with me in good humor.
Fantastic presentation. I've watched a number of your videos now, I think what you are sharing is extremely valuable. I am not a professional musician, but I just bought the yamaha.
Lots of good points and much to reflect on. Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons I wonder what you make of the double-beat theory? Not something I subscribe to I might add! Thanks again for these stimulating videos.
Thanks for making me aware of this. I suppose when a maestro comes along who agrees with the double beat theory and takes a Beethoven Symphony at half tempo I’ll be obliged to play it that way, but I would expect it to clear the hall. Thinking of the concerts in Beethoven’s day where two or three symphonies were programmed at once, along with other works, I have a hard time imagining that even audiences of the day, free of the current global ADD, would have had the patience for six- or eight-hour concerts.
Well…no one ever said metronome is more important than being able to internalize a beat and subdivisions. A metronome is a resource to help learning. Maybe to help one learn to practice complex passages. But, no you shouldn’t just play music like a computer…it loses the music part. Lol I will also suggest current metronomic playing is related to all the digital media. And “we” are disappointed when live music is not that precise. BTW, I have played with all those types of metronome. Also it is good for “remembering” how fast the ensemble pieces need to be. Identifying parts one needs to practice. But people can’t totally rely on all these tools and forget the other aspects. Same with tuner. But consider that physicians are using flow chart thinking to diagnose. And now AI. The thing that gets missed: at some point it comes down to using brain and learning to use it. Learning to apply what we learn. If you can figure out how to teach that? Well you will be doing better than God. lol Cause He hasn’t figured that out either.
Sorry, didn’t mean the video personally. But I did try the TE Tuner. There’s obviously little danger of me impacting TE Tuner’s commercial success - these videos are ultimately for my own students, who I am continually trying to get to internalize music instead of reacting to it. It’s an ongoing experiment. I now have old skool metronomes in both my studios, we’ll see if there is a difference in how students respond. Completely unscientific, of course.
Oh the old metronome was good for anticipating because, mine, and I still have it, was never very even. Lol Like a box of chocolates, never know what you get. I didn’t take it at all personally. I agree as to how the young(er than me) play as you describe. But I don’t think it is particularly the metronome’s fault. It is kind of mis/overuse of its purpose. Internal beat and playing musically within that. And what is musicianship? There is the next topic. I will suggest the lack of that instruction as it was handed down. And I think that relates to time period when it became so difficult to find performance position, production of schools of large numbers of “performance” majors, now all the schools hired teachers based on only graduate degrees whose recipients had no real life experience as a performer beyond school training, and finally the success tired to objective success…like playing well to metronome. But that is just my opinion.
The Metronome Video!!!!! Ive been waiting for this one!
Fascinating! Sadly I have heard people follow the click like following the baton rather than locking in with the click. For me a major hurdle was passed when I understood the importance of finger articulation rather than just thinking about the tongue. I am reminded of a video of Ron Carter the bassist giving a lesson and when Mr. Carter took the bass, he locked in with the metronome in a way I describe as beautiful, real magic.
More than some, I’m afraid. The key word is “following.” Being a good follower is one thing, but real ensemble playing is beyond that. Thanks for the comment!
Also, maybe the point is; the anticipation part is not being taught.
Imagine my delight when I heard that you actually followed up on my comment about TE Tuner! Imagine my disappointment when you skipped right over addressing the actual point of the comments to just run down the app for having lots of bells and whistles. That's ok - I'm still a big fan of both you and the app - and I certainly don't think you are wrong about the importance of the physical nature of musical pulse. It's a great way to understand and internalize it. I'd even agree that it's crucial. HOWEVER, it's also not the only way and to insist that it is seems sadly limiting. Thanks for another entertaining and informative presentation.
I’m sorry to disappoint you! I may be misremembering comments, but I thought the point was that the app’s feature of randomly omitting beats would develop the same rhythmic integrity as being able to play with a pulse of one or two beats per bar, or two bars per beat. I think randomly omitting beats still enables emphasis on the beat, and that a player’s ability to play despite missing beats is not necessarily the same thing as feeling the rhythm flow to its destination. If the player reacts to the beat even though it didn’t sound, nothing has been gained.
To be fair, it is possible to learn to react better, and still hit the bar line with a slow metronome without anticipation, but it is fairly obvious when the student is feeling for it rather than swinging with confidence.
If it seems I have a bee in my bonnet about this thing of feeling the pulse rather than reacting to the beat that’s a fair cop, but it’s my reaction to my reality as a teacher. Yehuda Gilad probably doesn’t have these kinds of problems. When I have a student who CANNOT play a three sixteenth pickup without sniffing on the sixteenth rest and coming in late, anticipating rather than reacting is the hammer I pick up. “Bells and whistles” like sixteenth note subdivision may give the impression that the student is playing in rhythm, but actually do nothing to solve the problem. In my experience. So my intention was not to run down the app, it was to run down complicated metronomes in general.
We can’t all expect to agree on the goodness of various things, and I know that at least one person on the web disagrees with me about virtually everything. Which I why I am particularly appreciative when someone disagrees with me in good humor.
Fantastic presentation. I've watched a number of your videos now, I think what you are sharing is extremely valuable. I am not a professional musician, but I just bought the yamaha.
Lots of good points and much to reflect on. Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons I wonder what you make of the double-beat theory? Not something I subscribe to I might add! Thanks again for these stimulating videos.
Thanks for making me aware of this. I suppose when a maestro comes along who agrees with the double beat theory and takes a Beethoven Symphony at half tempo I’ll be obliged to play it that way, but I would expect it to clear the hall. Thinking of the concerts in Beethoven’s day where two or three symphonies were programmed at once, along with other works, I have a hard time imagining that even audiences of the day, free of the current global ADD, would have had the patience for six- or eight-hour concerts.
@@jackhowell8708 Obviously no prostate issues in Beethoven’s time!
Well…no one ever said metronome is more important than being able to internalize a beat and subdivisions. A metronome is a resource to help learning. Maybe to help one learn to practice complex passages. But, no you shouldn’t just play music like a computer…it loses the music part. Lol
I will also suggest current metronomic playing is related to all the digital media. And “we” are disappointed when live music is not that precise.
BTW, I have played with all those types of metronome.
Also it is good for “remembering” how fast the ensemble pieces need to be. Identifying parts one needs to practice.
But people can’t totally rely on all these tools and forget the other aspects. Same with tuner.
But consider that physicians are using flow chart thinking to diagnose. And now AI.
The thing that gets missed: at some point it comes down to using brain and learning to use it.
Learning to apply what we learn. If you can figure out how to teach that? Well you will be doing better than God. lol Cause He hasn’t figured that out either.
Sorry, didn’t mean the video personally. But I did try the TE Tuner. There’s obviously little danger of me impacting TE Tuner’s commercial success - these videos are ultimately for my own students, who I am continually trying to get to internalize music instead of reacting to it. It’s an ongoing experiment. I now have old skool metronomes in both my studios, we’ll see if there is a difference in how students respond. Completely unscientific, of course.
Oh the old metronome was good for anticipating because, mine, and I still have it, was never very even. Lol Like a box of chocolates, never know what you get.
I didn’t take it at all personally. I agree as to how the young(er than me) play as you describe. But I don’t think it is particularly the metronome’s fault. It is kind of mis/overuse of its purpose.
Internal beat and playing musically within that. And what is musicianship? There is the next topic.
I will suggest the lack of that instruction as it was handed down. And I think that relates to time period when it became so difficult to find performance position, production of schools of large numbers of “performance” majors, now all the schools hired teachers based on only graduate degrees whose recipients had no real life experience as a performer beyond school training, and finally the success tired to objective success…like playing well to metronome. But that is just my opinion.
I agree with you.