As someone who was in the wire industry for 35 years I have just a few nuggets of info to add to Jim's good explanation of wire. One of the main difficulties is heavy gauge stiffness and workability. One way to solve that is to go to a high strand count than normally used for the gauge you want to use. So for example, instead of using a 16 AWG that has 19 strands typically you can use one that has 26 strands or more. The more strands the more flexible but also the more cost. The same applies to very large gauges such as 8 AWG or larger. I've seen 2 Aught that is actually limp but it had hundreds of strands and a rubber insulation. The insulation is also play a role in flexibility. Certain insulation are more flexible than others. Some are even "tubed on" rather then extruded on to increase flexibility. It can be complicated so if you happen to need flexibility I would suggest going into a place like Grainger or maybe there's a wire distributor nearby and see what they have that you can actually touch and see for yourself. The other thing is to think of electricity as you do water in plumbing. The bigger the pipe/ wire the more water/electricity that can go through it. Always go larger than what you actually think you need and never ever underestimate what size to use.
Ok folks the term / word current and amp were used interchangeably. Simple translation is there is no difference; Current = AMPs. Once folks understand that current and AMPs are the same it helps. When following along with electrical discussions, but also helps in wire determinations. Once I realized that AMPs could be viewed like water. The thicker the wire, the greater the current that could be carried. Thanks you two this information is greatly appreciated.
Current is the flow of electrons through a circuit. An Ampere is one coulomb of electrons flowing through a point in the circuit per second. A Coulomb is a really big number, and used as a constant. It allows us to use a more convenient number, rather than counting individual electrons! So, current is the property and Amperes is the standard measurement of that property. It's pretty easy to understand then, that two Amperes (or Amps) is twice the flow of electrons every second than one Amp. It also helps understand why a larger wire is needed to carry more current, and why drawing more current through a small wire might cause it to heat up!
@@AlGritzmacher now you are getting complicated. Just trying to keep it simple, and I didn't even begin the discussion of resistance and the reasons for gauge, resistance. Length to gauge : p
@@sgtevmckay I always found that it was easier to understand that way. The number doesn't matter, that's why I said a Coulomb was a "big number" but understanding that Amperes is a measurement of the current is pretty basic. And, no resistance should be covered separately, but the concept of current/Amps going through a wire leads right to wire size vs. resistance, heat, and loss due to resistance. It's fundamental to that next lesson.
A welding supply store can be a good source of heavy gauge very flexible wire for high amperage circuits. They are usually cheaper than other sources due to the volume they sell.
Welding cable is also built for flexibility. It has hundred of fine strands woven together to get the desired size, where a "plain" stranded wire might only have dozens of thicker strands. When Jim held up the one-aught (0) wire and the two-aught (00) wire and the 00 was more flexible, it was because that was a welding wire. Welding cable costs a little more, at least to make, but as you say, welding suppliers can have a good price.
Another point. When measuring the length of a wire, for instance from the solar array to the charge controller, your total length of wire is from the array (+) to the charge controller and the (-) from the charge controller to the array. You would use that length to determine the proper wire gauge for the current load. For instance, if your panels need 12 feet of wire from the panels to the controller, you would use 24 feet as the length of wire when determining the wire gauge required. For this reason, some installers will wire the panels in series as higher voltage and lower amps requires a smaller wire gauge verses low voltage (12Vdc) and high amperage requires larger wire.
This was very helpful. Im working to resolder speaker wires for a digivice (small electronic) but didnt understand how to communicate the size of the wire i need to anyone but with the help of this video i understand the differences in sizes and the names for them
All of this electrical work looks daunting. I’m glad there are guys like you out there that can simplify it. Your videos are very informative. Thank you!
Indeed...it is always easier when you know. Bob works hard to empower us to do it ourselves and if something may beyond our grasp Bob is also great in giving us resources. He wants to teach us to fish...sometimes you also teach that fish are in the water as well and then catch the first fish as a demonstration of what the pole is for 🥰 Some folks will always tell you something like; "Look...see...that was easy!", But it is only easy when we know 😀
People need to be careful purchasing wire for electrical use. You might think it's copper when it's actually copper clad aluminium (CCA) I noticed this recently when looking up prices of 1/0 cable and noticed Amazon and other companies having it at a really cheap price. Upon further investigation I realized it was CCA wire! If you don't know what you're actually buying you will create a safety Hazzard because aluminium wire needs to be 2 gauges thicker to carry the same amount of electrical current (amps)....😎
I installed an electrical system into my friends bus conversion, had to use quad aught (0000) as he had a super high output alternator, a 4kw pure sine inverter, 400 watts of solar and four Trojan T-145 golf cart batteries; then there are the 2 LARGE batteries for starting the diesel engine.... Needless to say it was a royal pain to get that 0000 routed around properly but that is one helluva high load system, he is able to use a laser cutter/engraver for around 6 hours before the batteries need to be re-charged, unlimited with the high output alternator in action; solar to help maintain the batteries during periods of boondocking and low power consumption activities...
My thinking on wire gauge is how may wires can I push through a one inch hole. I know it's not exact, but it helps me mentally handle the reverse relation between wire gauge and the size of the wire.
You can get very flexible big wire, 0 -00 -000 etc. at car stereo places or order it online, always stick to OFC (oxygen free copper) and not CCA (copper clad aluminum) Look up company names like stinger and scorpion wire. Dont use house wire in your vehicle. Another type of very flexible big wire is welding cables. Can be bought by the foot also.
also there are different types of wire being used and the strain count. i bought "0" cable for my inverter, when i got it, it was so stiff i couldnt hardly work with it, then i learned it was cca wire, which is stiff, cheap and not as good as the pure copper wire i was sold but didnt recieve. cca is copper clad aluminum and you want to avoid it.
It is easier for me to understand when I compare it to the system we use in cross stitch embroidery: 12 ct. is 12 stitches per inch, 24 ct. is 24 stitches per inch. When a stitch is fatter, you can fit fewer stitches in an inch of fabric. So I assume the wire gauge is roughly the same concept. You can get fewer thick cables in a one-inch pipe, so the gauge (or count) is a smaller number. For those of us with crafting experience it is easier to remember that gauge is the same as stitch count.
lol....unless you work wire for jewelry or chain maille as your craft. Then you know that the gauge of the wire in your hand is determined by how many times the wire has been drawn through a sizing form. And you can't make wire bigger by drawing it through the form so the numbers are reversed...one being the largest. But I suppose the main thing is to find a way that makes it easy for you to remember and understand. I like your analogy.
AWG is a terrible system that references how many times the copper is run through the press to make the smaller sizes. I think was started in the 19th century.
what are we measuring the actual conductor size when the insulation is stripped off or the outside diameter because the insulation could be quite thick and conductor small
The AWG numbering for thinner wires makes sence when you consider that for thinner wires, you can place more of them side by side in parallel per inch, and this number is then higher. I tried to develop a new or simpler formula : thickness" = = diameter" = (0.1") 10^((10 - gauge#) / 20) gauge# = 10 - 20 (log(10 thickness"))
The flexibility has nothing to do with the size... i have 2/0 That's just as flexible It has to do with the amount of wires and how it's wound inside the wire itself...
That was really helpful! Thanks so much. Now I hope you do a really simple explanation about AMPS and Watts and Volts. I just know how a 100 watt bulb works. lol
What would be really helpful would be to know what guage is appropriate for certain uses. For example: Heres what you use to wires two 6 volt batteries to each other
The reason for a wire calculator, is the wire size is not based on use, there are hundreds of different size 6 volt batteries for example. The wire size is calculated on each use case and can not be generalized, that is one of the reasons RVs have electrical fires. Total all the amps to be one the wire and measure the length and then a calculator can tell you the "minimum" wire size. {not to be confused with the recommended wire size} Only an experienced person can recommend the proper wire size.
Thickness is not the only discussion. Different content changes characteristics. Copper carries electricity better than aluminum. I am concerned about a new practice, an alloy of copper and aluminum, I haven't noticed it in wiring yet, but go to the hardware store to buy sheet copper and it will probably be copper/aluminum. We used to use what we called hardened copper wire, a copper alloy, probably with brass or bronze. A lot of buildings built with aluminum house wiring in the '70s were fire hazards. There are strands, important especially with A.C., where the voltage does not travel THROUGH the wire, but just above the surface, so more strands, at the same thickness, has greater capacity. You will see wiring that is solid, one strand, a pair, three, seven, and countless tiny strands, which carries the greatest capacity. After, "aught," wire begins MCM, LIKE 750 MCM, slightly smaller than a quarter, Million.
What you are describing is skin effect and it occurs at much higher frequencies than you will ever deal with in RV wiring. It's mainly a radio frequency phenomenon. Below 1 MHz stranding is mostly for flexibility.
As someone who was in the wire industry for 35 years I have just a few nuggets of info to add to Jim's good explanation of wire. One of the main difficulties is heavy gauge stiffness and workability. One way to solve that is to go to a high strand count than normally used for the gauge you want to use. So for example, instead of using a 16 AWG that has 19 strands typically you can use one that has 26 strands or more. The more strands the more flexible but also the more cost. The same applies to very large gauges such as 8 AWG or larger. I've seen 2 Aught that is actually limp but it had hundreds of strands and a rubber insulation. The insulation is also play a role in flexibility. Certain insulation are more flexible than others. Some are even "tubed on" rather then extruded on to increase flexibility. It can be complicated so if you happen to need flexibility I would suggest going into a place like Grainger or maybe there's a wire distributor nearby and see what they have that you can actually touch and see for yourself. The other thing is to think of electricity as you do water in plumbing. The bigger the pipe/ wire the more water/electricity that can go through it. Always go larger than what you actually think you need and never ever underestimate what size to use.
I made up a formula, do you think its ok:
thickness" =
= diameter" = (0.1") 10^((10 - gauge#) / 20)
gauge# = 10 - 20 (log(10 thickness))
I love these videos. Easy to understand, no technical jargon. Brilliant, thank you
Thank you Bob and Jim for the information ✋👍👏
Thanks again Bob Jim knows his stuff
I appreciate your vlog
Ok folks the term / word current and amp were used interchangeably. Simple translation is there is no difference; Current = AMPs.
Once folks understand that current and AMPs are the same it helps. When following along with electrical discussions, but also helps in wire determinations. Once I realized that AMPs could be viewed like water. The thicker the wire, the greater the current that could be carried.
Thanks you two this information is greatly appreciated.
Current is the flow of electrons through a circuit. An Ampere is one coulomb of electrons flowing through a point in the circuit per second. A Coulomb is a really big number, and used as a constant. It allows us to use a more convenient number, rather than counting individual electrons! So, current is the property and Amperes is the standard measurement of that property.
It's pretty easy to understand then, that two Amperes (or Amps) is twice the flow of electrons every second than one Amp.
It also helps understand why a larger wire is needed to carry more current, and why drawing more current through a small wire might cause it to heat up!
@@AlGritzmacher now you are getting complicated. Just trying to keep it simple, and I didn't even begin the discussion of resistance and the reasons for gauge, resistance. Length to gauge : p
@@sgtevmckay I always found that it was easier to understand that way. The number doesn't matter, that's why I said a Coulomb was a "big number" but understanding that Amperes is a measurement of the current is pretty basic.
And, no resistance should be covered separately, but the concept of current/Amps going through a wire leads right to wire size vs. resistance, heat, and loss due to resistance. It's fundamental to that next lesson.
@@AlGritzmacher Indeed
A welding supply store can be a good source of heavy gauge very flexible wire for high amperage circuits. They are usually cheaper than other sources due to the volume they sell.
Welding cable is also built for flexibility. It has hundred of fine strands woven together to get the desired size, where a "plain" stranded wire might only have dozens of thicker strands. When Jim held up the one-aught (0) wire and the two-aught (00) wire and the 00 was more flexible, it was because that was a welding wire. Welding cable costs a little more, at least to make, but as you say, welding suppliers can have a good price.
Another point. When measuring the length of a wire, for instance from the solar array to the charge controller, your total length of wire is from the array (+) to the charge controller and the (-) from the charge controller to the array. You would use that length to determine the proper wire gauge for the current load.
For instance, if your panels need 12 feet of wire from the panels to the controller, you would use 24 feet as the length of wire when determining the wire gauge required.
For this reason, some installers will wire the panels in series as higher voltage and lower amps requires a smaller wire gauge verses low voltage (12Vdc) and high amperage requires larger wire.
This was very helpful. Im working to resolder speaker wires for a digivice (small electronic) but didnt understand how to communicate the size of the wire i need to anyone but with the help of this video i understand the differences in sizes and the names for them
I love how Cody almost always finds an opportunity for a cameo.
All of this electrical work looks daunting. I’m glad there are guys like you out there that can simplify it. Your videos are very informative. Thank you!
Indeed...it is always easier when you know.
Bob works hard to empower us to do it ourselves and if something may beyond our grasp Bob is also great in giving us resources.
He wants to teach us to fish...sometimes you also teach that fish are in the water as well and then catch the first fish as a demonstration of what the pole is for 🥰
Some folks will always tell you something like; "Look...see...that was easy!", But it is only easy when we know 😀
sgtevmckay He’ a great resource of information and I’m learning from all his videos.
@@RezziOutdooringandRVing indeed :D
People need to be careful purchasing wire for electrical use. You might think it's copper when it's actually copper clad aluminium (CCA) I noticed this recently when looking up prices of 1/0 cable and noticed Amazon and other companies having it at a really cheap price. Upon further investigation I realized it was CCA wire! If you don't know what you're actually buying you will create a safety Hazzard because aluminium wire needs to be 2 gauges thicker to carry the same amount of electrical current (amps)....😎
I'm not a fan of aluminum wire. I'd rather have solid copper.
@@kathymack3791 I'd rather avoid aluminium wire also thus the reason I felt the need to start this comment....😎
We Always learn something when we watch one of your videos! Thanks.
I installed an electrical system into my friends bus conversion, had to use quad aught (0000) as he had a super high output alternator, a 4kw pure sine inverter, 400 watts of solar and four Trojan T-145 golf cart batteries; then there are the 2 LARGE batteries for starting the diesel engine.... Needless to say it was a royal pain to get that 0000 routed around properly but that is one helluva high load system, he is able to use a laser cutter/engraver for around 6 hours before the batteries need to be re-charged, unlimited with the high output alternator in action; solar to help maintain the batteries during periods of boondocking and low power consumption activities...
I thought you would of talked about how many amps a wire can handle . Maybe even pictured a wire size to amp chart .
Yeah, the whole of different wire sizes is the current capacity, lol.
I needed this for a project! Gotta buy wire tomorrow!
My thinking on wire gauge is how may wires can I push through a one inch hole. I know it's not exact, but it helps me mentally handle the reverse relation between wire gauge and the size of the wire.
This!
You can get very flexible big wire, 0 -00 -000 etc. at car stereo places or order it online, always stick to OFC (oxygen free copper) and not CCA (copper clad aluminum) Look up company names like stinger and scorpion wire. Dont use house wire in your vehicle. Another type of very flexible big wire is welding cables. Can be bought by the foot also.
Good Video. Hello Bob & Jim!
Good Video Jim... Thank you, Bob!
Welding cable is much more flexible even in large gages and carries DC power better than house type wires.
also there are different types of wire being used and the strain count. i bought "0" cable for my inverter, when i got it, it was so stiff i couldnt hardly work with it, then i learned it was cca wire, which is stiff, cheap and not as good as the pure copper wire i was sold but didnt recieve. cca is copper clad aluminum and you want to avoid it.
It is easier for me to understand when I compare it to the system we use in cross stitch embroidery: 12 ct. is 12 stitches per inch, 24 ct. is 24 stitches per inch. When a stitch is fatter, you can fit fewer stitches in an inch of fabric. So I assume the wire gauge is roughly the same concept. You can get fewer thick cables in a one-inch pipe, so the gauge (or count) is a smaller number. For those of us with crafting experience it is easier to remember that gauge is the same as stitch count.
lol....unless you work wire for jewelry or chain maille as your craft. Then you know that the gauge of the wire in your hand is determined by how many times the wire has been drawn through a sizing form. And you can't make wire bigger by drawing it through the form so the numbers are reversed...one being the largest. But I suppose the main thing is to find a way that makes it easy for you to remember and understand. I like your analogy.
It would be helpful if Jim told us what usage each of them is best for (i.e. gauge 8 to 10 for battery to inverter, 12 for panel to controller, etc)
That depends on the wire length, voltage, and how many amps you're running through it...
AWG is a terrible system that references how many times the copper is run through the press to make the smaller sizes. I think was started in the 19th century.
Need to explain the why...and when to use bigger wire.
Small steps friend.
Wait til we get to the point of having to remember OHMs Law off the top of our heads 😛
There are wire gauge charts. You can Google, go to images.
Exactly my point...showing big and little wires, without any explanation of what to use, and why to use.
The fundamental problem with AWG is the A part. Lol.
Golden!
Thank you!
Thank you
Thanks so much for your interest in RVs. God Bless 🎶🎻☀️⛵🚴♀️🚣♂️
what are we measuring the actual conductor size when the insulation is stripped off or the outside diameter because the insulation could be quite thick and conductor small
The AWG numbering for thinner wires makes sence when you consider that for thinner wires, you can place more of them side by side in parallel per inch, and this number is then higher. I tried to develop a new or simpler formula :
thickness" =
= diameter" = (0.1") 10^((10 - gauge#) / 20)
gauge# = 10 - 20 (log(10 thickness"))
Basically, with the AWG, the numbering is based on a wires internal cross sectional area and therefore its conductance, rather than just its diameter.
The flexibility has nothing to do with the size... i have 2/0 That's just as flexible It has to do with the amount of wires and how it's wound inside the wire itself...
How far can two batteries be a part to connect together answer please
That was really helpful! Thanks so much. Now I hope you do a really simple explanation about AMPS and Watts and Volts. I just know how a 100 watt bulb works. lol
What would be really helpful would be to know what guage is appropriate for certain uses. For example: Heres what you use to wires two 6 volt batteries to each other
The reason for a wire calculator, is the wire size is not based on use, there are hundreds of different size 6 volt batteries for example. The wire size is calculated on each use case and can not be generalized, that is one of the reasons RVs have electrical fires. Total all the amps to be one the wire and measure the length and then a calculator can tell you the "minimum" wire size. {not to be confused with the recommended wire size} Only an experienced person can recommend the proper wire size.
Jim should change his name to Vincent. He sounds just like Vincent Price. 😂
I think it's his accent and diction. I get your point though.
Agree... and being a such a handy guy he could probably build his own pit and pendulum out there in the desert...
If conductor not longer than 1 foot can I use 4 AWG to carry 150 A from battery to inverter or I still have to change to 1AWG?
On the solar wire what strand do you recommend for MC4 connectors. I'm looking at 7 or 19 strand outdoor PV wire.
Thickness is not the only discussion. Different content changes characteristics. Copper carries electricity better than aluminum. I am concerned about a new practice, an alloy of copper and aluminum, I haven't noticed it in wiring yet, but go to the hardware store to buy sheet copper and it will probably be copper/aluminum. We used to use what we called hardened copper wire, a copper alloy, probably with brass or bronze. A lot of buildings built with aluminum house wiring in the '70s were fire hazards.
There are strands, important especially with A.C., where the voltage does not travel THROUGH the wire, but just above the surface, so more strands, at the same thickness, has greater capacity. You will see wiring that is solid, one strand, a pair, three, seven, and countless tiny strands, which carries the greatest capacity. After, "aught," wire begins MCM, LIKE 750 MCM, slightly smaller than a quarter, Million.
What you are describing is skin effect and it occurs at much higher frequencies than you will ever deal with in RV wiring. It's mainly a radio frequency phenomenon. Below 1 MHz stranding is mostly for flexibility.
Al Gritzmacher Yes, and you will never wire an RV with 750 MCM, or million.
Can i use 14ga. Wire on a jet pump that requires 115volts
Do you really need 4/0 aught AWG for a simple 400watt solar setup??
can you use house extension lead wire?
Cody wants him a bite of that single 0.
Thanks for sharing hope to meet you some day
😊👍🏼
Extremely helpful chart: imgur.com/a/XWfTOLZ
You really need to learn how to control the movement of a camera, this was a pain to watch.
Circuits giving you a headache? research androidcircuitsolver on google
👍👍✔✔👏👏
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