I self-published a long time ago and then continued to do so. I originally went the traditional route, had an agent, first book went up for auction, etc. But it just didn't work out in the end. I self-published, took years to build my own following and kept writing my series. Recently I sold the film rights for my series. The producer who bought the rights also works with a very prominent literary agent in NY. I won't name them but they are very well known. He talked about my books to one of the agents, she took a quick look at my Amazon pages and said my numbers weren't good enough to interest trad publishing. I don't quite understand how that judgement was made, but I digress. I've won prizes, sold film rights, sold 80,000 copies of my books on my own, and still have never been able to get any interest from the traditional publishing industry. I have found it to be nothing short of a huge frustration. So I'm really grateful that self-publishing is even an option or my books would have never seen the light of day.
This is so sad and disheartening. That this is what it has come to for authors to get published, you being totally unknown have to make yourself known and only then will publishers take you seriously. What are the point of publishers if not to give authors access to a wider reader base. If I've already done that then what do I need them for?
Sound partly to me like the trad person was ticked that you made it on your own. I bet they wanted to just get under your skin. To heck with them. You've done incredible!
I don't see myself as an author, but I have a great need to publish my this only book. Having done some investigation in YT, I came to the conclusion that writing is much easier than publishing your book
It's just a personal impression, but I can't recall a time in which the output of the traditional publishing industry has been more generic, more predictable, more censorious, more unimaginative and more boring than it is now. Thank goodness for self-published authors.
As a POC the diversity is nice but most days every time I see a new release I get tired after reading the blurb. I've turned to self-publishing books. The political climate is also affecting books as everyone wants to be politically correct and it's just tiresome. The multitude of books I've read since this month has really pulled me out of my writing and reading slump were high-quality self-published books by authors who saw their writing as a business. Self-publishing is getting the respect it deserves.
This. I agree. I hate that the focus has become so political, having to check all these boxes or you’re a racist/sexist/whatever… it is very exhausting to me and I can’t see myself ever pursuing big 5 publishing. Maybe some indie presses but currently I am super happy indie publishing. :)
@@crystaleefyffe1230 I honestly hate that the diversity has come in THIS way. On the one hand I want to applaud more people telling stories - there’s room for all of us here! On the other, I’m a white author. I don’t think it’s reasonable that I have to force all of this diversity into my stories if it doesn’t fit the story, AND get attacked and treated like some kind of “phobe” if my representation isn’t *exactly* what people want. It’s so weird to me that it’s come to this. Good luck with your indie author career!
@@stefanielozinski Big 5 publishers are only interested in BIPOC stories that sells trauma and black pain when there are tons of authors that just want to write fairytales and romance not social justice stories. It's tiresome. There should be space for everything. And I agree forced diversity is insulting at least to me because it's obvious some white authors are doing it for diversity points.
I'll add my two cents here, untill money is no longer a barrier there will always be a need for traditional publishers. A lot of people just can't afford, even to save up for, to pay for any of the costs of publishing a book. I speak as one of these people, I don't have a choice, I must go the route of trad publishing. There is no extra money to even save up for any of these costs, self publishing is not an option. We are a single income family living well under the poverty line for my country. We scrap by now, I won't be taking any of that money away hoping to make it back later, we can't afford that kind of gamble. I won't get paid much, but if I can get that book deal I'll have some kind of income stream.
I'm in the same boat. Self-publishing is the epitome of anarcho-capitalism. If you don't already have money, forget it. You'll sell maybe double digits at best.
I'm so glad it wasn't me who wrote this comment. I was TIRED of bringing this up whenever someone made this kind of video. Thank you so much for expressing this.
Have you considered perhaps serializing on Patreon or Kofi to bring in income? Novels used to be serialized before the modern forms, and it is starting to come back. Just a thought, though, I understand if it doesn't appeal to you. 🙂
Definitely agree on the quality control point you made. I wish the self-publishing platforms had a licensing body or editor approval board that could provide a thumbs-up or grading scale for their works, basically providing SOME form of curation for the content. I can't be the only person who's seen self-published authors pitch their books and thought "wow, that sounds interesting," only to find that it's poorly edited, riddled with errors, and has serious structural issues with pacing, plot, dialogue, and transitions. And that's a shame because there ARE good self-published authors out there, but how are you supposed to find them? At least with traditional publishing you can pick up a book and be guaranteed that it's readable, at the very least. As long as anyone can upload anything to Amazon and there's no form of gatekeeping or quality control, there will always be a need for traditional publishing.
The marketplace is the quality control for self-publishing. A consumer may buy one book from an author because it seems interesting from the cover art and description text. If it turns out that the book is lacking in content quality or editorial quality, then the consumer will not buy a second book from the same author.
I stopped buying self published books as the quality was so poor. I would sometimes read reviews and wonder if I was reading the same book as other people. It made me wonder how many were written by friends and family. I certainly wouldn't go down that route myself at the moment, but would perhaps be more inclined to buy if, as you say, there was a rating system. Having said that, there are some authors that write well who self publish. As you mention, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. Good luck with your writing!
@@KEB19877 Yep. If a book has less than a dozen reviews and all of them are 5 stars, it’s almost guaranteed to be entirely from family and friends. Good luck to you as well! 🍀
@@christyaustin904 I disagree that they are friends and family. I have seen Wattpad books that are self-published and the reviews are glowing. Why? The majority of those readers do not care about a few grammatical errors. They fall in love with the story and characters. I noticed this a few years ago with New adult romance authors. One author got glowing reviews from fans who were addicted to her stories. I read 1 of her books. She had run on sentences and it was obvious she had skipped on hiring at editor. Back in 2012 to 2018 it was easier to get away with an unedited romance book. Now more reviewers notice and leave 1 to 2 star reviews.
This is also why I, as a reader, steer clear of self-published books. You have to wade through so much trash to find the gems. Some people love the hunt, but I just don't have time for that. You can't even trust reviews because those can be bought and faked. I wonder how a quality control system would even work considering thousands of books are self-pubbed daily.
I originally planned on self-publishing but got scared off by stories from people who had and not been successful. Then I attempted the traditional publishing but kept the thought of self publishing in the back of my mind. I had an editor read my manuscript who is a freelance editor for a self publishing house and she gave me back the self confidence I needed to continue return to my original plan of self publishing. I have a plan for my story and I’m not sure how well that would work with traditional publishing. Also, I love the idea of owning all the rights for my story. My goal is not to become a world famous best selling author, my goal is to tell my story, and engage with my readers through my story.
I'm so glad your videos showed up in my feed. I'm just starting my publishing journey and am in a writing group with all indie authors; listening to everything they must do to bring out a book has fortified my desire to go the trad route. I sure hope traditional publishing isn't dead (or dying), but it's clear the current model needs some work.
More and more I strive towards traditional publishing. seeing hardly any sales for my self published books, is a huge disappointment and a downer after all the money and time I've invested in them. You have been a tremendous help already and I hope an agent will finally say yes to my latest work.
I'm a self published author who owns his own imprint. And though it's not an easier route to go, the decision to self publish was the best one for me. Trad publishing has more resources, but at the end of the day you're really just an employee. I'd rather be self employed. I control the destiny of my books, and all the glory/shame falls on me. While I'm still working to make what I do profitable, I love it too much to stop.
I'm mainly considering traditional publishing because I want my energy to be able to just go into writing. Having to do EVERYTHING else on my own...that's just not my wheelhouse. I LIKE the support and as a debut author...I wouldn't want to be in over my head. And...as another comment mentioned, I quite simply can't afford to pay or save up for all the other team members or production costs that I would need.
I love your videos. They are so helpful! I am currently finishing up my first book - a romance - and will be self-publishing. The traditional route seems like it's a tough road to travel with no guarantees of being picked up by a publisher. Then even if you are picked up, because you're not well known, you may not get a lot of attention. So while I'd love to say that I've been traditionally published or have a better shot at getting my book(s) in a physical store, I think the indie route is going to be better for me.
Appreciate all the helpful information and advice. I tried the traditional route years ago and couldn't get anyone to read my manuscript. When I found self-publishing, it was a God send. I didn't care about the money, I just wanted to get read. You are right about the quality control you get with trad. I am disappointed when I read a snippet from a self-pub book and it is littered with typos. I've worked as a journalist, copywriter, ghost writer and editor. Just one misuse of 'lay' and 'lie' can destroy your credibility. When I am finished my current novel, I want to try traditional again, just for the validity it gives you as a writer. For that reason - along with your charming delivery - I will return to your channel. :-)
I don't think traditional publishing is going anywhere, but I have enjoyed watching as self-publishing has rocked the world and forced them to make so many changes, and I think the growth of social-publishing and serialized publishing is going to force them into making more changes to stay relevant.
If the Traditional publishing industry collapses and dies, it isn't because of self publishing. Self publishing has been around for years. If the T.P goes under, it is the fault of themselves, as it has been a long time coming. The pandemic has helped quicken the pace. ....
This is kinda unrelated but I love your mature, intelligent poised manner 🥰❤️ it’s enjoyable to listen to and provides almost like a confidence in what you’re saying ❤️
I think it depends on what your goals are. If it’s to make a lot of money, that probably won’t happen unless you are a Dan Brown. I wonder if we are thinking of writing in a wrong way. Do we write to sell a lot of books? Or, do we write to express our creativity? Our artistry? What are we trying to achieve? If it is to rake in money why not develop the latest widget? If it is to create fame or to become well-known why not rob a bank? Or if it is to change the world, well, we might have a chance at that. I think of Van Gogh who never sold a painting in his life. Now they are worth millions. Fame he has it. His paintings probably influenced the development of new paradigms in painting. I think it might be helpful to reflect on what it is we really want to accomplish with our writing.
Fantastic video!! Really torn between the two. I think going the traditional route is helpful & then if you want to try to self publish thereafter (if unsuccessful) then by all means. I. Agree with you Re the issue with QC in the self publishing market. I am sure however that wonderful people like you can help fill in this void & make an author's dreams come true!
The other side of writing is reading… that skill or interest may be dying. Will traditional publishing adapt to deal with a shrinking population of readers?
Brilliant question. John Grisham said of himself and Stephen King - "We are well known authors in a time when people don't read." Fancy house don't matter if the foundation, readership in this case, is dodgy....
What makes you say reading is on the decline? Books/reading experienced somewhat of a dip in interest from 2010-2015, but from what I can see the numbers have been recovering (and then rising) ever since. It may not net the profit that tv/film does but it's still a multi-billion dollar industry.
I have a question about chapters, idk if it would be enough content for an entire video but I have this weird anxiety over how long a chapter should be. I’m going through my manuscript right now trying to clean the chapters up so It’s more book shaped, and I’ve heard over and over that chapters end where you feel they should end, on a revelation or some sort of tiny cliff hanger or maybe just in the spot that feels like it’s over. I’m an avid reader so I get it, but for some reason I get stuck on page numbers. I try not to make them too long, or too short though I know with every book it varies. What would you suggest for someone who gets stuck on how long to make chapters?
I think these were reasonable responses to complex publishing issues. I still think it would be better to look at all three avenues of publishing a book from a hybrid or trad-pubbed, self-pubbed author. The restrictions placed on self-published authors who sign trad. severely cut their abilities to make steady income because of contracts.
Hi! I am dissapointed with the publishing industry? I chose Hibrid publishing! One of the Big Five gave me book a Review which I used on my back page. After 7 professional book editing companies the book got a Gold Seal! Still trying everything including Podcasting!
I am on the fence with whether to self-publish my next book(s) or go traditional. I self-published my first book, and I've been with a small press since 2019. I have queried a handful of agents, but when I scroll through the books on an agency's site and don't see any fantasy books (which is what I write) yet the agent represents fantasy, I get skeptical. When their list of what they want in a book is more concerned about the gender and race of the main character and author rather than the book itself, I get skeptical. When it comes to the formatting and editing and cover, I am confident I could manage it myself. There are so many talent freelance artists who do amazing artwork for covers, and so many experienced editors out there. It is the publicity aspect of traditional publishing that is the most enticing. It's being able to get into bookstores easier. It's having that expanded distribution and wider range of marketing. Because there is a certain percentage of readers who immediately turn up their nose at "self-published."
Great insight-as always :) A wise man advised me to pursue the Traditional publishing path first. And his reasons were logical to me. So... I'm going to take that route.
I have watched many of your videos on both platforms, but I’m still not sure which way to go. With over 1.4 million followers on TikTok, I wonder if self publishing a tell-all memoir would be better for me. Or do you think the traditional publishing industry would be interested in a story about a heavily filtered mother living with her husband, her ex-husband, and 4 of 6 of their collective children. 2 of the kids are on the autism spectrum which caused me to parent them alternatively which is so controversial on TT. One of my boys is so medically fragile after having a bone marrow transplant, that we’ve been living in quarantine since 2017. Could my following help me get published traditionally, or could it hurt me?
If Alyssa responds with something different then of course defer to her, but in case she doesn't here's my two cents after studying self vs. trad pub for years now. Trad pub offers two major advantages not available to most people: marketing + industry professionals. You have the audience, and through that audience I'm assuming you have the resources to hire all the right professionals. You could even hire a ghostwriter to help put your experience into words. So, on paper, trad pub can't offer you much you couldn't get on your own. However, it depends on how much time and energy you want to spend on things. Trad pub will handle almost everything for and with you, but self pub allows for total control over marketing aspects like title/cover while letting you retain ALL rights to the work. It's really up to you, but personally I take the approach of "try for trad pub just in case, go indie if trad falls through," because you can't do it the other way around. Hope this helps.
@@Gaywatch I appreciate your words! I have five screenplays under my belt and I have a passion for writing, but I’m sure professional help would be incredible. I think I like that. Try traditional publishing first. Thank you!
Thank you so much for an amazing video! Do you have any advice for publishing novellas and novelettes? 🥰 I’ve been trying to decide whether to go the self-publishing route, or attempt either a large or boutique publishing house.
In general, it's hard to publish novellas through the traditional publishing route, as the cost of producing them isn't as worth it to publishing houses. However, if you feel that your story demands a novella length, I would still recommend querying literary agents with it! There have definitely been debut novellas out on the market that have done well. Best of luck!
Thank you so so much! 🤍 I really appreciate your help! I have a lot of longer stories planned, but I figured I could start my publishing journey with a novella as my debut! I will definitely try querying agents! If none show interest, do you think I should try self-publishing, and then move to a hybrid model with my longer pieces? I just want to thank you again! You inspire me so much, and your videos have truly gotten me back into writing. You are offering so much to the writing community by spreading wisdom, incredible knowledge, and hope. 🤍📚
We are living in changing times. As with so many other industries and monopolies, it is time for the largest publishers to be broken up. Then people like you can start their own publishing houses and reinvigorate the market.
If writers in the past followed all the "how to become a best seller" advice and traditional publisher's narrow/cookie-cutter checklists (not over 100,000 words, too many characters, too much description, too complicated, show don't tell, write what you know, throw in hooks, hooks, hooks, shorten, simplify, suspense, suspense, suspense for short attention spans, etc. etc. etc.) there would be no Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Dickens, Eliot, Melville, Hugo, Mann, and all the other great writers whose books will far outlive the shallow dreck out there today. I would assume these great writers of the past would be forced to either self-publish today or tumble to the protocol and write the same navel-gazing tripe.
Well, one, most those writers are 100 years dead at least so nothing about the modern publishing industry applies to them, and two, huge books are published all the time. I see brick sized books on the shelves at book stores constantly, not to mention Brandon Sanderson's regular 400k word beasts, which sell a stupid amount of copies. So no, publishers are not averse to publishing bigger books, it's just that most manuscripts over 100k are not masterpieces they're bloated messes.
@@jessip8654 Well, everything about the modern publishing industry applies to them. They wrote literary novels, not fantasy books for young adults. They would not be published today (or even get an agent). As for bloated messes, most books today that are less than 100k are generic messes.
Thank you for this video and the update. Being a self-published author on Amazon has not shown any profit and I'm looking into small presses as well as the big corporations of traditional press. However I find that there are some barriers for people who have graduate degrees without terminal degrees and finding agents that will support creative writers and their hybrid models is limited because of revenue and not because of The Craft. Any advice would be appreciated...
Can you provide resources for college students that want to become editors? I'm trying to decide what career path I want to take, as well as many others that are in my shoes. :)
New author here: When I got home from Afghanistan I self published my fiction contemporary novel. I knew (and still barely know) very little about the publishing world. (And even less about marketing.) Is republishing through a professional possible? I'm about to start querying a second book (unrelated to the first) and would love to try and bring the first one out of the dark.
The big issue with trad publishing financial model and sustainability is that the record profits they are making goes to c-suite, leaving their employees making less than livable wages (while still requiring them to live in NYC!) and their authors to receive meager advances and depressing royalties. I think the best thing that could happen to trad publishing that would make it fantastic would be unionization and giving power back to the acquiring editors and staff. That would allow them to take risks on fantastic books that don't "fit the mold" and acquire talented authors who maybe don't have the tiktok following numbers. Unionize the staff so they can do their actual job, rather than fret about profits.
I am planning on going the traditional publishing route with my second novel. Self publishing was fun and very educational but marketing is such a drag! I’ve made back my investment of my debut novel but I invested very little into it in the first place. It’s hard to find an audience on your own.
Which is why I try on finding an agent so badly. I haven't even made back my money for the 4 books I have released. Newsletter, requesting for reviews. All of it hasn't kicked off for me. Only lost money. No profit.
You have to market and promote your book as a trad and self-published author. Listen to interviews with former trad published authors and you will see that most companies will do very little marketing and promotion. It depends on your deal.
I am so divided. I want to publish, and soon, but I don't really know the route. If money wasn't an issue, I would choose self pub without hesitation. That's the path I *want*, but I can't afford it. Editing, formatting, cover design? All of these things cost money and I am in a financial place where I can't even *save*. My choices are traditional, making compromises I don't want to make or self publishing below my personal standard which I *know* I don't want to do.
Each side definitely has its pros and cons, but self-publishing can involve a team of editors, beta readers, and designers! Thank you for your comment :)
I agree there is room enough for both traditional publishing and self-publishing. There are services/companies available to help self-published authors navigate the process of finding quality editors and cover artists, as well as helping out with marketing, etc..., although I grant you that the publishing houses still maintain a grip on marketing contacts and distribution networks. So self-publishing has legs and the ability to compete with traditionally published books. Might mean some out-of-pocket costs for authors, but it can be done. Unless the publishing houses are going to open their doors to more authors and expand their range of interests, many authors will never be able to go the traditional route. Their topic or voice just does not resonate (harder and harder for authors to find agents). It may resonate with a lot of readers, but not agents and editors. Therefore, I will be interested to see how traditional publishing evolves in the future, but bottom line, I believe there will continue to be a choice for authors, which is a good thing. As for me, I have concluded that self-publishing is for me. I have my first novel coming out later this year.
My perception of traditional publishing is that a few of the books published account for a very high percentage of the revenue and that the big winners pay the bills, including allowing publishers to take risks on newer offers. There are always breakthrough authors, but a lot of the big winners come from authors who have built a following through repeated publication, and from a marketing perspective has their own brand, meaning they have a big edge in marketing. I think the potential threat to traditional publishing is if well-recongnized authors start pulling out. I think it unlikely this would be a universal reaction, but I'm not sure how prevalent it needs to be before it starts challenging the revenue stream. I in no way think traditional publishing is in its death throes, but there is reason for concern long-term if my understanding of the finances of the industry are correct. I'll also say that you correct 2021 sales statistics, and I'm glad to see the use of current data, but I think almost every statistic from every industry in the years 2020 and 2021 needs to have an asterisk beside it because of the impact of COVID.
I will also add that my concern around the long-term viability of the traditional publishing revenue model is perhaps the best news the industry has ever had, given my track record. My prediction that Microsoft and Apple were played out in 1986 was particularly inciteful.
I’m a freelance editor with a day job at the distribution end of the publishing industry. Traditional publishing is still alive and kicking (tail). We consistently get tons of new releases from all publishers (the Big Four, other traditional publishers, and indie publishers) to be distributed to bookstores and public and private libraries. (The company I work for also has a self-publishing division that’s just as big and popular as Amazon.) We have steady work. There’s so much work that we’re required to occasionally put in overtime hours. As for self-publishing, particularly self-publishing on Amazon, authors need to learn effective ways to search for keywords. This is the key (pun intended) to effective marketing. There are book marketing coaches for that stuff.
I think self-publishing is getting better about quality. I think a lot of writers now know that you can't halfway any of it, if you want to make this your living. But you are right, there are problems with this. Kindle Vella is struggling with poor quality work going up right now.
What bothers me about traditional publishing: 1. How slow the traditional publishing industry is. Why does it take so long to produce and release these books? 2. I've spoken to trad authors who feel so trapped in a poor contract with hardly any income. Their publisher is hardly working with them anymore because their last book had poor sales, so they want to self-publish. 3. Most publishing companies heavily depend on you to market your own book. 4. The author is often the person making the least amount of money when you include all the employees in a publishing company and their agent. As an administrator (a temp) in a big publishing house, I was earning more than most of the authors. I heard a podcast interview with 1 author signed to this company and they talked about being broke and working long shifts. It made me sad. However, I understand that self-published authors can invest in their own work and still make very little money too. 5. Sometimes trad publishers don't want to take chances and they keep to the same old tired models.
I think part of the reason why trad pub is so slow is there are real people still doing the vetting and editing, for better or worse. Workload has been an issue for editorial assistants for years and it seems like many are quitting because they are being overworked and underpaid. It speaks to a larger issue within the industry at large but sadly both authors and lower level employees suffer the most while those same old models keep the power and money at the very top.
There is a lot of room for small publishers to develop and grow, provided they find a formula that works. Amazon commands the marketplace, though a huge part of its sales come from traditional publishers. The downside of Amazon is that they are impacting bookstore sales as well as producing a lot of insufficiently edited, self-published crap that floods the market and creates noise in the channel that diminishes the impact of book marketing efforts. I don't think traditional publishing is dead or dying but they aren't adapting well to present industry conditions. They appear to be more focused on established authors to the exclusion of many authors who in frustration, go the self-publishing or small publishing route. If the industry fails to develop the new talent it will suffer erosion of its influence and perhaps die. Many of the unknown have enough rejection letters to wallpaper a room. The current traditional publishing model is a relic of the mid -19th Century and flourished throughout the 20th Century. Previously, there was a publishing industry with several major players but many noteworthy authors did something akin to self-publishing, which required considerable personal investment and self-promotion. So, self-publishing is nothing new to the industry. It's just that the power of the gatekeeping function the larger publishers have served is in rapid decline due to the growth of alternative means of publishing a book.
Former employees of publishing companies, newspapers, and journalists are filling the void to improve self-publishing. Writing is a creative idea similar to painting, drawing, and music, all of which change the model representing an individual. When each creative can operate independently via a website, they can establish, publish and market their creative content ideas themselves without established ways of the past.
Why would anyone want to go traditional nowadays? If you have a great product, self publish and word of mouth can do alot of marketing for you. Don’t wait on them! Do your thing!
Traditional publishing will never die. Now I'm not talking bad about self publishing authors because my favorite sister is a self published author, but I think traditional publishing is better. Most bookstore managers support traditional publishing authors, but hesitate with self publishing authors, trust me this is so true I am writing a book and want to traditional publish my books and my big sister is a self published author and she tried to do a book signing and get her book in there store and the manager looked very hesitant this was years ago I told her numerous times to traditional publish like me but she refused to she hate traditional publishing but whatever makes her happy. Bookstore managers also don't stock self pub authors books for sale nor have them do book signings.
The main point here is do what is best for you. There's no write or wrong. One is not better than another, both take a lot of hard work. Also, Brandon Sanderson is an outlier, he has tons of fans from his trad publishing. Self pub authors have a harder road to plow to find fans.
Yes, well said! Both self and traditional publishing are viable, it's just that one might be better for an author, versus the other. Thanks for commenting!
I'm self published, but I think traditional publishing has one feature that self published authors will never be able to compete with: the role of attestation. Trad pub experts are exactly that: experts. They provide both quality control *and* help convince people to give a new author a chance because the author was already able to convince expert gatekeepers that their book was worth it. But the biggest downside was mentioned elsewhere in the comments here: groupthink. The political climate of the day has a heavy influence, particularly since the primary publishing houses are so few. True competition of ideas has been stifled to a degree due to risk aversion. At the end of the day, publishing houses need to be profitable to survive, so taking on high risk projects that could result in a huge backlash from the public (with potential boycotts of other unrelated works) is just not viable. This results in a certain homogeneity in the story philosophies, and as a reader, it does get boring. But the indie author can take on this risk quite well as they are only seeking the readers who like what they do and it doesn't matter if the others boycott them.
I've just seen all the responses to my previous comment. To be honest, I'm not sure that the problem is censorship, so much as the fact that the traditional publishing industry has a failing business model that's chasing a shrinking market at a time when cheaper and more flexible competitors are in on the game. As a result, they've consolidated like mad and become incredibly risk averse - a situation not helped by the fact that the industry is lacking any true diversity and is dominated by youngish, metropolitan, middle-class, university-educated women who struggle with the concept that not everyone might share their tastes. They're mostly nice people (like Alyssa), but they're telling themselves stories that bear little resemblance to the actual reality of what's happening. True authorial diversity is mostly self-published now, so that's where you'll find the best stories.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with the idea that traditional publishing provides better quality control than self-publishing. As an editor and an avid reader, I've come across dozens of books published through the traditional route that have basic developmental issues and glaring grammatical problems. Of course, we editors aren't perfect and we do sometimes miss a few errors (and I believe traditional publishing even allows a certain % of the book to be flawed), but even in trad, there are still significant issues with many stories that they put out. I've even seen books where the premise sounded cool, but they *never* delivered their promise or stories with major plot holes that are *never* addressed. Self-publishing can be a hot mess when people don't take the time to get as many eyes on their manuscripts as possible before hitting "publish". However, I believe self-publishing can be strong in the sense that authors can take their time to properly develop a story and ensure it is entirely polished before putting it into the world.; in trad, that isn't always possible. I know several authors published through the Big Five who have to crank out edits of whole novels within the span of 30 days. I think there are pros and cons to both, but like I said, I don't think self-pub as a whole lacks quality control; it depends entirely on the authors.
The technology shift has already occurred. Print on demand and ebooks have opened the field to everyone. You don't need traditional publishing for quality control, and is it even quality control or do they practice a kind of cultural gatekeeping? Just hire Beta-readers and an editor to get your manuscript as perfect as you can get it before you release it. Get some help finding every last typo if you need it. Then re-read the whole thing and torture yourself with Strunk and White - Elements of Style for a while. Hire an artist to create original cover art or come up with some yourself. I self published a couple months ago to five star reviews, and my book is now for sale at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, Walmart, and bookstores around the world, and can be ordered through almost any indie bookshop. I can only speculate that if I went traditional I might have had a bigger launch and better marketing. But the timeline for traditional publishing might have pushed that launch out a few more months or even another year away. Currently I'm learning how to record the audiobook which I will also be doing myself.
I've self-published twice. I want to try the traditional route but there is a major problem with diversity. It's full of upper to middle-class white people and a lot of literary agents/editors are female. I think it's a bit harder to “breakthrough “ for a black man who writes a bit everything except for what historical pieces and things about slavery and racism. When I'm searching for agents and editors they want a female minority LGBTQ+ historical fiction piece w/o death and gore. Like many of those in the industry, today say they want diversity but actively cull it with what they want for books.
No, publishing has not died, nor would it ever as the name 'publishing' connotes, there's always going to be information worthy of publication ---that is ready to be published in. In fact, publishing is about to make a rebound.
Your comments on self publishing does not apply to the Vanity Publishers, I would assume. I had heard that they are not reliable in quality or anything else. Some are good and fulfill the needs of the author to get the book to print but they do not guarantee distribution. That is what selling books is all about. Without distribution through major book sellers you have nothing. Well, door to door selling. Your comparison seem genuine and realistic. I have had my share of contacts with the Vanity group and they don't give you much. Print on demand. But without distribution and promotion, who is going to demand.What is funny about the vanity groups. You pay them for all the services. Then, if you want copies for yourself, you have to buy those as well. Once you get involved with one of those groups, Traditional publishers don't want to talk to you. The bloom is already off the rose.
Yes, I consider vanity publishers to be a "hybrid" publishing path, different from traditional and self-publishing. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Signed up on your newsletter! I think Brandon Sanderson definitely rocked a few misconceptions, but his clout has helped him have the success he has. I agree that trad publishing is here to stay, but yes to that unsustainable model! The whole set up reminds me of big corporations like Walmart where those at the top keep most of the money while the managers work 60+ hours a week for paltry pay (my mom for many years). Editors should be paid so much more for what they do, and in the trad industry where more money can be made because of the connections and marketing know-how, this could be done. TBH, I'm so glad trad publishing is not my goal. I understand the importance of the industry, and it works for those who just want to write (and not wear all the hats as I have to with the indie path) and for those who see the allure of being recognized by an established industry and have their books make it into the big book stores (and other myriad of reasons I'm sure). There are no right or wrong choices in choosing a publishing path, but this type of conversation reinforces my choices. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for your support and this thoughtful comment! I'm glad discussions like these offer clarity about your publishing path--I hope others also get that sense as they watch!
Traditional or self published, it's going to be !ore involved than merely writing and any delusional motions of a easy career if successful. Is best discarded. Walk into a big book seller and scan the store. That, is your competition and not all those on the shelves will be offered another book deal if they don't turn a profit. I enjoy researching as well and if she can work in your needs my suggestion is hire and pay this woman. Her rates are reasonable and she has experience. Everyone including !myself, is a critic, forget writing groups. wasting money on a masters in fine arts associated with writing and dig in. I fight frustration in writing constantly with my own garbage including a ever changing market. I sometimes laugh at comments on writers websites where a reader comments there is no town by that name, no business by that name, etc and if the writer had a backbone they would have a click button reply to any and all such comments. "What do you not understand about fiction."
Budding authors need a reality check. 99% of all manuscripts sent to agents get turned down. The reason for this is 99% of books published in todays world fail to even get the publishing costs back. If you want to be known as an author you have to accept the cost of self publishing, and expect to lose most of your money.
You spend close to 2 mins repeating the same intro in every video. It would be better if you straight to the point in your next videos. I like your content though
Thanks for your post as always. We keep talking about authors but what we really mean is female authors because a straight male novelist doesn't have a hope in hell of getting into the girls' club.
Self-published author, accountant and former auditor who has audited a LOT of traditional publishing companies checking in. I have several, significantly longer videos on my channel that go through the arguments in detail but here's a high-level summary of why I think traditional publishing is dead. 1. The problem with the traditional publishing business model is not with the fact that it's fundamentally gambling. There are many industries which operate on the same principles-and I'm not just talking about the obvious parallels in movies, stageplays/musicals, etc. Venture capital firms do the same thing, except they place bets on early stage start up businesses instead of books. In fact, all forms of investment work on the same principle, because the reason the gambling business model works is because it is about diversification of risk. Your 401k/retirement plan works on the same principle. The REAL problem with the traditional publishing business model is that it is a print centric one. The minimum cash outlay to publish a quality book is relatively cheap. What drives up the cost in title P&Ls (which is basically an acquiring editor's wild guess in spreadsheet form) is the assumptions around print quantities. I have a much longer video about this on my channel but essentially PRINT is the reason why most titles don't earn out. To prove the point, I have three videos breaking down title P&Ls, including one that looks at what the likely title P&L might be for Brandon Sanderson's 4 secret Kickstarter novels. When you run the title P&L assuming a predominantly digital publication approach, the breakeven point turns out very differently. If you write a quality book and you don't overcapitalize on your per title investment, you can make a profit without selling thousands of copies. And in keeping with the principle of diversifying risk, what you need to make a sustainable income is a large number of modestly profitable books, instead of trying to hit the jackpot by writing one hugely profitable book. You do not need to be Brandon Sanderson to be able to self-publish full time and I am so disappointed that much of the conversation around his Kickstarter success was..."oh nobody else can reproduce his results so it's not gonna change anything". I've done three long videos on this topic debunking all of the assumptions underpinning that argument and I've barely scratched the surface of what we can learn from his success. 2. The argument about the curation aspect of traditional publishing/lack of gate keeping when it comes to self-publishing is largely irrelevant when considered in the context of sustainability as a business model. Readers don't buy books that don't satisfy their reading desires. Also, there is no universal consensus on what constitutes a good book, because that is subject to reader preferences. We all know this and we all preach this. So that reduces the argument about quality to a few elements that people like to consider objective measures of quality (e.g. typesetting, typos, spelling and grammatical errors). Except these are not as objective as they appear. Hop on over to web serialization platforms and you'll discover that there is an entire market of readers who don't care if the story is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, as long as they get daily instalments that hit all of the tropes in their preferred niche and will sign up on Patreon to support their favorite authors. And then hop over to some corners of Booktube where you have readers who are loud and proud that if they see a single typo or poorly typeset book, they will DNF it no matter what. The only relevant metrics in the end are how many people buy the book (in whatever format), how many people read the book (including from libraries, private loans, KU, etc) and how many readers enjoyed the book. And those metrics are really a better measure of how aligned the book's marketing is with what the story is and need to be considered in the context of the overall size of the market itself and how established the author's readership is. But that's not even the biggest reason of all. 3. The value provided by a traditional publishing house is just not worth the trade-off an author has to make in terms of control and royalties. Yes, traditional publishing houses have fantastic editors. Yes, they have fantastic print distribution. Yes, they have marketing teams who can help you reach a far wider audience and secure marketing opportunities than you can on your own. Yes, they have established networks and relationships and experience that you, as an author, probably don't (and even if you did, you would probably be better off spending that time writing your next book). But I don't see how the value provided for each of those things is worth me giving up the lion's share of the profits. That USED to be a fair arrangement, when print distribution was the only way to get your book out to readers and large offset print runs were the only cost-effective way to print books and the only entities with enough cash on hand to bet on a large offset print run is a traditional publishing house with capital. But that is not the case today. As a self-published author, I can hire the same cover designers, artists, book designers, editors, proofreaders, marketing experts, etc that a traditional publishing house would do. I can minimize the risk of launching a print format by going print-on-demand, which is more expensive on a per-unit basis but is practically zero risk for me, because the relative cost of producing a print-ready PDF is minimal in the overall title P&L and I pay zero production, warehousing and fulfilment costs until I have a paying customer. Any book that is commercially successful, whether it has been traditionally published or self-published, has an effective genre-appropriate cover, a compelling blurb, is well-formatted and written in a way that is satisfying for its target market. If it lacked any of those elements, it would not be selling. So all a traditional publishing house ends up being is a glorified project manager. Sure, there can be value add there, but not to the tune of the lion's share of the royalties from book sales. And as you pointed out, the profits are not trickling down. Erin Fulmer's Twitter thread has a great analysis of where all the money is ultimately going...and it's not to any of the people who have had a direct role in turning those books from idea to reality. As Barry Eisler said back in his 2013 Guardian article: "We should not conflate publishing services with the entities that have traditionally provided them. The services are essential; the entities are not." I would much rather see a new paradigm where authors are in control and the majority of the money is accruing to the cover and book designers, editors, artists and authors instead of to large corporations whose ultimate shareholders are a few individuals who are already absurdly rich.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I self-published a long time ago and then continued to do so. I originally went the traditional route, had an agent, first book went up for auction, etc. But it just didn't work out in the end. I self-published, took years to build my own following and kept writing my series. Recently I sold the film rights for my series. The producer who bought the rights also works with a very prominent literary agent in NY. I won't name them but they are very well known. He talked about my books to one of the agents, she took a quick look at my Amazon pages and said my numbers weren't good enough to interest trad publishing. I don't quite understand how that judgement was made, but I digress. I've won prizes, sold film rights, sold 80,000 copies of my books on my own, and still have never been able to get any interest from the traditional publishing industry. I have found it to be nothing short of a huge frustration. So I'm really grateful that self-publishing is even an option or my books would have never seen the light of day.
Great post. You have done really well.
Awesome!
This is so sad and disheartening. That this is what it has come to for authors to get published, you being totally unknown have to make yourself known and only then will publishers take you seriously. What are the point of publishers if not to give authors access to a wider reader base. If I've already done that then what do I need them for?
Sound partly to me like the trad person was ticked that you made it on your own. I bet they wanted to just get under your skin. To heck with them. You've done incredible!
I don't see myself as an author, but I have a great need to publish my this only book. Having done some investigation in YT, I came to the conclusion that writing is much easier than publishing your book
It's just a personal impression, but I can't recall a time in which the output of the traditional publishing industry has been more generic, more predictable, more censorious, more unimaginative and more boring than it is now. Thank goodness for self-published authors.
As a POC the diversity is nice but most days every time I see a new release I get tired after reading the blurb. I've turned to self-publishing books. The political climate is also affecting books as everyone wants to be politically correct and it's just tiresome. The multitude of books I've read since this month has really pulled me out of my writing and reading slump were high-quality self-published books by authors who saw their writing as a business. Self-publishing is getting the respect it deserves.
1940's Germany.
This. I agree. I hate that the focus has become so political, having to check all these boxes or you’re a racist/sexist/whatever… it is very exhausting to me and I can’t see myself ever pursuing big 5 publishing. Maybe some indie presses but currently I am super happy indie publishing. :)
@@crystaleefyffe1230 I honestly hate that the diversity has come in THIS way. On the one hand I want to applaud more people telling stories - there’s room for all of us here! On the other, I’m a white author. I don’t think it’s reasonable that I have to force all of this diversity into my stories if it doesn’t fit the story, AND get attacked and treated like some kind of “phobe” if my representation isn’t *exactly* what people want. It’s so weird to me that it’s come to this. Good luck with your indie author career!
@@stefanielozinski Big 5 publishers are only interested in BIPOC stories that sells trauma and black pain when there are tons of authors that just want to write fairytales and romance not social justice stories. It's tiresome. There should be space for everything. And I agree forced diversity is insulting at least to me because it's obvious some white authors are doing it for diversity points.
I'll add my two cents here, untill money is no longer a barrier there will always be a need for traditional publishers. A lot of people just can't afford, even to save up for, to pay for any of the costs of publishing a book. I speak as one of these people, I don't have a choice, I must go the route of trad publishing. There is no extra money to even save up for any of these costs, self publishing is not an option. We are a single income family living well under the poverty line for my country. We scrap by now, I won't be taking any of that money away hoping to make it back later, we can't afford that kind of gamble. I won't get paid much, but if I can get that book deal I'll have some kind of income stream.
I'm in the same boat. Self-publishing is the epitome of anarcho-capitalism. If you don't already have money, forget it. You'll sell maybe double digits at best.
I'm so glad it wasn't me who wrote this comment. I was TIRED of bringing this up whenever someone made this kind of video. Thank you so much for expressing this.
Have you considered perhaps serializing on Patreon or Kofi to bring in income? Novels used to be serialized before the modern forms, and it is starting to come back. Just a thought, though, I understand if it doesn't appeal to you. 🙂
it takes money to make money
Have you thought of crowd funding?
Definitely agree on the quality control point you made. I wish the self-publishing platforms had a licensing body or editor approval board that could provide a thumbs-up or grading scale for their works, basically providing SOME form of curation for the content.
I can't be the only person who's seen self-published authors pitch their books and thought "wow, that sounds interesting," only to find that it's poorly edited, riddled with errors, and has serious structural issues with pacing, plot, dialogue, and transitions. And that's a shame because there ARE good self-published authors out there, but how are you supposed to find them? At least with traditional publishing you can pick up a book and be guaranteed that it's readable, at the very least. As long as anyone can upload anything to Amazon and there's no form of gatekeeping or quality control, there will always be a need for traditional publishing.
The marketplace is the quality control for self-publishing. A consumer may buy one book from an author because it seems interesting from the cover art and description text. If it turns out that the book is lacking in content quality or editorial quality, then the consumer will not buy a second book from the same author.
I stopped buying self published books as the quality was so poor. I would sometimes read reviews and wonder if I was reading the same book as other people. It made me wonder how many were written by friends and family.
I certainly wouldn't go down that route myself at the moment, but would perhaps be more inclined to buy if, as you say, there was a rating system.
Having said that, there are some authors that write well who self publish. As you mention, it's like finding a needle in a haystack.
Good luck with your writing!
@@KEB19877 Yep. If a book has less than a dozen reviews and all of them are 5 stars, it’s almost guaranteed to be entirely from family and friends.
Good luck to you as well! 🍀
@@christyaustin904 I disagree that they are friends and family.
I have seen Wattpad books that are self-published and the reviews are glowing. Why? The majority of those readers do not care about a few grammatical errors. They fall in love with the story and characters.
I noticed this a few years ago with New adult romance authors. One author got glowing reviews from fans who were addicted to her stories. I read 1 of her books. She had run on sentences and it was obvious she had skipped on hiring at editor.
Back in 2012 to 2018 it was easier to get away with an unedited romance book. Now more reviewers notice and leave 1 to 2 star reviews.
This is also why I, as a reader, steer clear of self-published books. You have to wade through so much trash to find the gems. Some people love the hunt, but I just don't have time for that. You can't even trust reviews because those can be bought and faked. I wonder how a quality control system would even work considering thousands of books are self-pubbed daily.
I originally planned on self-publishing but got scared off by stories from people who had and not been successful. Then I attempted the traditional publishing but kept the thought of self publishing in the back of my mind. I had an editor read my manuscript who is a freelance editor for a self publishing house and she gave me back the self confidence I needed to continue return to my original plan of self publishing. I have a plan for my story and I’m not sure how well that would work with traditional publishing. Also, I love the idea of owning all the rights for my story. My goal is not to become a world famous best selling author, my goal is to tell my story, and engage with my readers through my story.
I'm so glad you were able to test both out! Best of luck with your publishing journey!
Same with you, I need to tell my stories in my one & only book -- all the best.
I'm so glad your videos showed up in my feed. I'm just starting my publishing journey and am in a writing group with all indie authors; listening to everything they must do to bring out a book has fortified my desire to go the trad route. I sure hope traditional publishing isn't dead (or dying), but it's clear the current model needs some work.
I can refer you to a great Publisher on your journey
More and more I strive towards traditional publishing. seeing hardly any sales for my self published books, is a huge disappointment and a downer after all the money and time I've invested in them.
You have been a tremendous help already and I hope an agent will finally say yes to my latest work.
Thank you for the kind comment! I wish you the best of luck with querying :)
I'm a self published author who owns his own imprint. And though it's not an easier route to go, the decision to self publish was the best one for me. Trad publishing has more resources, but at the end of the day you're really just an employee. I'd rather be self employed. I control the destiny of my books, and all the glory/shame falls on me. While I'm still working to make what I do profitable, I love it too much to stop.
Glad to see your channel growing. More videos per week definitely helps with the algorithm. Awesome content.
I'm mainly considering traditional publishing because I want my energy to be able to just go into writing. Having to do EVERYTHING else on my own...that's just not my wheelhouse. I LIKE the support and as a debut author...I wouldn't want to be in over my head. And...as another comment mentioned, I quite simply can't afford to pay or save up for all the other team members or production costs that I would need.
These are all valid reasons for wanting to pursue traditional publishing--thank you for sharing your perspective!
I love your videos. They are so helpful! I am currently finishing up my first book - a romance - and will be self-publishing. The traditional route seems like it's a tough road to travel with no guarantees of being picked up by a publisher. Then even if you are picked up, because you're not well known, you may not get a lot of attention. So while I'd love to say that I've been traditionally published or have a better shot at getting my book(s) in a physical store, I think the indie route is going to be better for me.
I wish you the best with your novel! Self publishing is definitely becoming more and more a viable path for authors, so I'm glad you're open to it!
Appreciate all the helpful information and advice. I tried the traditional route years ago and couldn't get anyone to read my manuscript. When I found self-publishing, it was a God send. I didn't care about the money, I just wanted to get read. You are right about the quality control you get with trad. I am disappointed when I read a snippet from a self-pub book and it is littered with typos. I've worked as a journalist, copywriter, ghost writer and editor. Just one misuse of 'lay' and 'lie' can destroy your credibility. When I am finished my current novel, I want to try traditional again, just for the validity it gives you as a writer. For that reason - along with your charming delivery - I will return to your channel. :-)
I don't think traditional publishing is going anywhere, but I have enjoyed watching as self-publishing has rocked the world and forced them to make so many changes, and I think the growth of social-publishing and serialized publishing is going to force them into making more changes to stay relevant.
I agree! Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)
Well covered video. Well spoken. Even motivating to hear.
Glad you enjoyed it!
If the Traditional publishing industry collapses and dies, it isn't because of self publishing. Self publishing has been around for years. If the T.P goes under, it is the fault of themselves, as it has been a long time coming. The pandemic has helped quicken the pace. ....
Agreed
This is kinda unrelated but I love your mature, intelligent poised manner 🥰❤️ it’s enjoyable to listen to and provides almost like a confidence in what you’re saying ❤️
Haha, thanks for the kind comment!
I think it depends on what your goals are. If it’s to make a lot of money, that probably won’t happen unless you are a Dan Brown. I wonder if we are thinking of writing in a wrong way. Do we write to sell a lot of books? Or, do we write to express our creativity? Our artistry? What are we trying to achieve? If it is to rake in money why not develop the latest widget? If it is to create fame or to become well-known why not rob a bank? Or if it is to change the world, well, we might have a chance at that.
I think of Van Gogh who never sold a painting in his life. Now they are worth millions. Fame he has it. His paintings probably influenced the development of new paradigms in painting. I think it might be helpful to reflect on what it is we really want to accomplish with our writing.
That's a good mindset to keep in mind, especially in this industry.
Fantastic video!! Really torn between the two. I think going the traditional route is helpful & then if you want to try to self publish thereafter (if unsuccessful) then by all means. I. Agree with you Re the issue with QC in the self publishing market. I am sure however that wonderful people like you can help fill in this void & make an author's dreams come true!
I do not self-publish, but I am with two small presses (what some call micro press). I want to build my sales but it is so hard.
So much in flux right now. Thanks for the self-assessment form. I look forward to your newsletter!
Thanks for the kind comment!
The other side of writing is reading… that skill or interest may be dying. Will traditional publishing adapt to deal with a shrinking population of readers?
Brilliant question. John Grisham said of himself and Stephen King - "We are well known authors in a time when people don't read."
Fancy house don't matter if the foundation, readership in this case, is dodgy....
What makes you say reading is on the decline? Books/reading experienced somewhat of a dip in interest from 2010-2015, but from what I can see the numbers have been recovering (and then rising) ever since. It may not net the profit that tv/film does but it's still a multi-billion dollar industry.
That is not true. Watch the k-lytics channel on Yt and you will see reading is increasing. Some genres do better than most, romance is increasing.
I have a question about chapters, idk if it would be enough content for an entire video but I have this weird anxiety over how long a chapter should be. I’m going through my manuscript right now trying to clean the chapters up so It’s more book shaped, and I’ve heard over and over that chapters end where you feel they should end, on a revelation or some sort of tiny cliff hanger or maybe just in the spot that feels like it’s over. I’m an avid reader so I get it, but for some reason I get stuck on page numbers. I try not to make them too long, or too short though I know with every book it varies. What would you suggest for someone who gets stuck on how long to make chapters?
I think these were reasonable responses to complex publishing issues. I still think it would be better to look at all three avenues of publishing a book from a hybrid or trad-pubbed, self-pubbed author. The restrictions placed on self-published authors who sign trad. severely cut their abilities to make steady income because of contracts.
Hi! I am dissapointed with the publishing industry? I chose Hibrid publishing! One of the Big Five gave me book a Review which I used on my back page. After 7 professional book editing companies the book got a Gold Seal! Still trying everything including Podcasting!
Thanks for sharing!
I’ve done indie for my first book, but I am still considering traditional for some of my other books I want to release.
I am on the fence with whether to self-publish my next book(s) or go traditional. I self-published my first book, and I've been with a small press since 2019. I have queried a handful of agents, but when I scroll through the books on an agency's site and don't see any fantasy books (which is what I write) yet the agent represents fantasy, I get skeptical. When their list of what they want in a book is more concerned about the gender and race of the main character and author rather than the book itself, I get skeptical. When it comes to the formatting and editing and cover, I am confident I could manage it myself. There are so many talent freelance artists who do amazing artwork for covers, and so many experienced editors out there. It is the publicity aspect of traditional publishing that is the most enticing. It's being able to get into bookstores easier. It's having that expanded distribution and wider range of marketing. Because there is a certain percentage of readers who immediately turn up their nose at "self-published."
Great insight-as always :) A wise man advised me to pursue the Traditional publishing path first. And his reasons were logical to me. So... I'm going to take that route.
I have watched many of your videos on both platforms, but I’m still not sure which way to go. With over 1.4 million followers on TikTok, I wonder if self publishing a tell-all memoir would be better for me. Or do you think the traditional publishing industry would be interested in a story about a heavily filtered mother living with her husband, her ex-husband, and 4 of 6 of their collective children. 2 of the kids are on the autism spectrum which caused me to parent them alternatively which is so controversial on TT. One of my boys is so medically fragile after having a bone marrow transplant, that we’ve been living in quarantine since 2017. Could my following help me get published traditionally, or could it hurt me?
If Alyssa responds with something different then of course defer to her, but in case she doesn't here's my two cents after studying self vs. trad pub for years now. Trad pub offers two major advantages not available to most people: marketing + industry professionals. You have the audience, and through that audience I'm assuming you have the resources to hire all the right professionals. You could even hire a ghostwriter to help put your experience into words. So, on paper, trad pub can't offer you much you couldn't get on your own. However, it depends on how much time and energy you want to spend on things. Trad pub will handle almost everything for and with you, but self pub allows for total control over marketing aspects like title/cover while letting you retain ALL rights to the work. It's really up to you, but personally I take the approach of "try for trad pub just in case, go indie if trad falls through," because you can't do it the other way around. Hope this helps.
@@Gaywatch I appreciate your words! I have five screenplays under my belt and I have a passion for writing, but I’m sure professional help would be incredible. I think I like that. Try traditional publishing first. Thank you!
Nice! Thanks!
Thank you so much for an amazing video! Do you have any advice for publishing novellas and novelettes? 🥰 I’ve been trying to decide whether to go the self-publishing route, or attempt either a large or boutique publishing house.
In general, it's hard to publish novellas through the traditional publishing route, as the cost of producing them isn't as worth it to publishing houses. However, if you feel that your story demands a novella length, I would still recommend querying literary agents with it! There have definitely been debut novellas out on the market that have done well. Best of luck!
Thank you so so much! 🤍 I really appreciate your help! I have a lot of longer stories planned, but I figured I could start my publishing journey with a novella as my debut! I will definitely try querying agents! If none show interest, do you think I should try self-publishing, and then move to a hybrid model with my longer pieces?
I just want to thank you again! You inspire me so much, and your videos have truly gotten me back into writing. You are offering so much to the writing community by spreading wisdom, incredible knowledge, and hope. 🤍📚
We are living in changing times. As with so many other industries and monopolies, it is time for the largest publishers to be broken up. Then people like you can start their own publishing houses and reinvigorate the market.
If writers in the past followed all the "how to become a best seller" advice and traditional publisher's narrow/cookie-cutter checklists (not over 100,000 words, too many characters, too much description, too complicated, show don't tell, write what you know, throw in hooks, hooks, hooks, shorten, simplify, suspense, suspense, suspense for short attention spans, etc. etc. etc.) there would be no Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Dickens, Eliot, Melville, Hugo, Mann, and all the other great writers whose books will far outlive the shallow dreck out there today. I would assume these great writers of the past would be forced to either self-publish today or tumble to the protocol and write the same navel-gazing tripe.
Well, one, most those writers are 100 years dead at least so nothing about the modern publishing industry applies to them, and two, huge books are published all the time. I see brick sized books on the shelves at book stores constantly, not to mention Brandon Sanderson's regular 400k word beasts, which sell a stupid amount of copies. So no, publishers are not averse to publishing bigger books, it's just that most manuscripts over 100k are not masterpieces they're bloated messes.
@@jessip8654 Well, everything about the modern publishing industry applies to them. They wrote literary novels, not fantasy books for young adults. They would not be published today (or even get an agent). As for bloated messes, most books today that are less than 100k are generic messes.
Thank you for this video and the update. Being a self-published author on Amazon has not shown any profit and I'm looking into small presses as well as the big corporations of traditional press. However I find that there are some barriers for people who have graduate degrees without terminal degrees and finding agents that will support creative writers and their hybrid models is limited because of revenue and not because of The Craft. Any advice would be appreciated...
Brilliant video! 💚
Thank you for the kind comment!
Can you provide resources for college students that want to become editors? I'm trying to decide what career path I want to take, as well as many others that are in my shoes. :)
New author here: When I got home from Afghanistan I self published my fiction contemporary novel.
I knew (and still barely know) very little about the publishing world.
(And even less about marketing.)
Is republishing through a professional possible? I'm about to start querying a second book (unrelated to the first) and would love to try and bring the first one out of the dark.
The big issue with trad publishing financial model and sustainability is that the record profits they are making goes to c-suite, leaving their employees making less than livable wages (while still requiring them to live in NYC!) and their authors to receive meager advances and depressing royalties. I think the best thing that could happen to trad publishing that would make it fantastic would be unionization and giving power back to the acquiring editors and staff. That would allow them to take risks on fantastic books that don't "fit the mold" and acquire talented authors who maybe don't have the tiktok following numbers. Unionize the staff so they can do their actual job, rather than fret about profits.
New video idea, is it an MRI or a MRI?
I am planning on going the traditional publishing route with my second novel. Self publishing was fun and very educational but marketing is such a drag! I’ve made back my investment of my debut novel but I invested very little into it in the first place. It’s hard to find an audience on your own.
Which is why I try on finding an agent so badly. I haven't even made back my money for the 4 books I have released. Newsletter, requesting for reviews. All of it hasn't kicked off for me. Only lost money. No profit.
You have to market and promote your book as a trad and self-published author.
Listen to interviews with former trad published authors and you will see that most companies will do very little marketing and promotion. It depends on your deal.
I am so divided. I want to publish, and soon, but I don't really know the route. If money wasn't an issue, I would choose self pub without hesitation. That's the path I *want*, but I can't afford it. Editing, formatting, cover design? All of these things cost money and I am in a financial place where I can't even *save*. My choices are traditional, making compromises I don't want to make or self publishing below my personal standard which I *know* I don't want to do.
I like the two-tiered approach. The self publishing approach definitely gives the audience a more direct say. But it also seems kinda isolating.
Each side definitely has its pros and cons, but self-publishing can involve a team of editors, beta readers, and designers! Thank you for your comment :)
@@AlyssaMatesic So it would only be isolating if you left out the essentials.Touche!
I agree there is room enough for both traditional publishing and self-publishing. There are services/companies available to help self-published authors navigate the process of finding quality editors and cover artists, as well as helping out with marketing, etc..., although I grant you that the publishing houses still maintain a grip on marketing contacts and distribution networks. So self-publishing has legs and the ability to compete with traditionally published books. Might mean some out-of-pocket costs for authors, but it can be done. Unless the publishing houses are going to open their doors to more authors and expand their range of interests, many authors will never be able to go the traditional route. Their topic or voice just does not resonate (harder and harder for authors to find agents). It may resonate with a lot of readers, but not agents and editors. Therefore, I will be interested to see how traditional publishing evolves in the future, but bottom line, I believe there will continue to be a choice for authors, which is a good thing. As for me, I have concluded that self-publishing is for me. I have my first novel coming out later this year.
Thank you for sharing your insight! I wish you the best of luck with your first novel :)
My perception of traditional publishing is that a few of the books published account for a very high percentage of the revenue and that the big winners pay the bills, including allowing publishers to take risks on newer offers. There are always breakthrough authors, but a lot of the big winners come from authors who have built a following through repeated publication, and from a marketing perspective has their own brand, meaning they have a big edge in marketing. I think the potential threat to traditional publishing is if well-recongnized authors start pulling out. I think it unlikely this would be a universal reaction, but I'm not sure how prevalent it needs to be before it starts challenging the revenue stream. I in no way think traditional publishing is in its death throes, but there is reason for concern long-term if my understanding of the finances of the industry are correct.
I'll also say that you correct 2021 sales statistics, and I'm glad to see the use of current data, but I think almost every statistic from every industry in the years 2020 and 2021 needs to have an asterisk beside it because of the impact of COVID.
I will also add that my concern around the long-term viability of the traditional publishing revenue model is perhaps the best news the industry has ever had, given my track record. My prediction that Microsoft and Apple were played out in 1986 was particularly inciteful.
I’m a freelance editor with a day job at the distribution end of the publishing industry. Traditional publishing is still alive and kicking (tail). We consistently get tons of new releases from all publishers (the Big Four, other traditional publishers, and indie publishers) to be distributed to bookstores and public and private libraries. (The company I work for also has a self-publishing division that’s just as big and popular as Amazon.) We have steady work. There’s so much work that we’re required to occasionally put in overtime hours. As for self-publishing, particularly self-publishing on Amazon, authors need to learn effective ways to search for keywords. This is the key (pun intended) to effective marketing. There are book marketing coaches for that stuff.
After spendng well over a year research self publishing, I am think of the traditional route.
I think self-publishing is getting better about quality. I think a lot of writers now know that you can't halfway any of it, if you want to make this your living. But you are right, there are problems with this. Kindle Vella is struggling with poor quality work going up right now.
What bothers me about traditional publishing:
1. How slow the traditional publishing industry is. Why does it take so long to produce and release these books?
2. I've spoken to trad authors who feel so trapped in a poor contract with hardly any income. Their publisher is hardly working with them anymore because their last book had poor sales, so they want to self-publish.
3. Most publishing companies heavily depend on you to market your own book.
4. The author is often the person making the least amount of money when you include all the employees in a publishing company and their agent.
As an administrator (a temp) in a big publishing house, I was earning more than most of the authors. I heard a podcast interview with 1 author signed to this company and they talked about being broke and working long shifts. It made me sad.
However, I understand that self-published authors can invest in their own work and still make very little money too.
5. Sometimes trad publishers don't want to take chances and they keep to the same old tired models.
I think part of the reason why trad pub is so slow is there are real people still doing the vetting and editing, for better or worse. Workload has been an issue for editorial assistants for years and it seems like many are quitting because they are being overworked and underpaid. It speaks to a larger issue within the industry at large but sadly both authors and lower level employees suffer the most while those same old models keep the power and money at the very top.
Do you edit scripts and teleplays as well?
Unfortunately, no! But there are plenty of talented editors out there who do!
Starts at 2:48 ...
BIG PUBLISHING, like all "BIG" sectors, rakes in billions and yet few authors can make a living. Not hard to do the math on that!
I hope it’s not dying. It’s the quality control issue for me. I’m done with indie books. Been burned too many times
There is a lot of room for small publishers to develop and grow, provided they find a formula that works. Amazon commands the marketplace, though a huge part of its sales come from traditional publishers. The downside of Amazon is that they are impacting bookstore sales as well as producing a lot of insufficiently edited, self-published crap that floods the market and creates noise in the channel that diminishes the impact of book marketing efforts. I don't think traditional publishing is dead or dying but they aren't adapting well to present industry conditions. They appear to be more focused on established authors to the exclusion of many authors who in frustration, go the self-publishing or small publishing route. If the industry fails to develop the new talent it will suffer erosion of its influence and perhaps die. Many of the unknown have enough rejection letters to wallpaper a room. The current traditional publishing model is a relic of the mid -19th Century and flourished throughout the 20th Century. Previously, there was a publishing industry with several major players but many noteworthy authors did something akin to self-publishing, which required considerable personal investment and self-promotion. So, self-publishing is nothing new to the industry. It's just that the power of the gatekeeping function the larger publishers have served is in rapid decline due to the growth of alternative means of publishing a book.
Thank you for sharing some historical background on this issue!
Former employees of publishing companies, newspapers, and journalists are filling the void to improve self-publishing. Writing is a creative idea similar to painting, drawing, and music, all of which change the model representing an individual. When each creative can operate independently via a website, they can establish, publish and market their creative content ideas themselves without established ways of the past.
Why would anyone want to go traditional nowadays? If you have a great product, self publish and word of mouth can do alot of marketing for you. Don’t wait on them! Do your thing!
Traditional publishing will never die. Now I'm not talking bad about self publishing authors because my favorite sister is a self published author, but I think traditional publishing is better. Most bookstore managers support traditional publishing authors, but hesitate with self publishing authors, trust me this is so true I am writing a book and want to traditional publish my books and my big sister is a self published author and she tried to do a book signing and get her book in there store and the manager looked very hesitant this was years ago I told her numerous times to traditional publish like me but she refused to she hate traditional publishing but whatever makes her happy. Bookstore managers also don't stock self pub authors books for sale nor have them do book signings.
Haha first. Do people do that on publishing videos?
The main point here is do what is best for you. There's no write or wrong. One is not better than another, both take a lot of hard work. Also, Brandon Sanderson is an outlier, he has tons of fans from his trad publishing. Self pub authors have a harder road to plow to find fans.
Yes, well said! Both self and traditional publishing are viable, it's just that one might be better for an author, versus the other. Thanks for commenting!
I'm self published, but I think traditional publishing has one feature that self published authors will never be able to compete with: the role of attestation. Trad pub experts are exactly that: experts. They provide both quality control *and* help convince people to give a new author a chance because the author was already able to convince expert gatekeepers that their book was worth it.
But the biggest downside was mentioned elsewhere in the comments here: groupthink. The political climate of the day has a heavy influence, particularly since the primary publishing houses are so few. True competition of ideas has been stifled to a degree due to risk aversion. At the end of the day, publishing houses need to be profitable to survive, so taking on high risk projects that could result in a huge backlash from the public (with potential boycotts of other unrelated works) is just not viable. This results in a certain homogeneity in the story philosophies, and as a reader, it does get boring.
But the indie author can take on this risk quite well as they are only seeking the readers who like what they do and it doesn't matter if the others boycott them.
I've just seen all the responses to my previous comment. To be honest, I'm not sure that the problem is censorship, so much as the fact that the traditional publishing industry has a failing business model that's chasing a shrinking market at a time when cheaper and more flexible competitors are in on the game. As a result, they've consolidated like mad and become incredibly risk averse - a situation not helped by the fact that the industry is lacking any true diversity and is dominated by youngish, metropolitan, middle-class, university-educated women who struggle with the concept that not everyone might share their tastes. They're mostly nice people (like Alyssa), but they're telling themselves stories that bear little resemblance to the actual reality of what's happening. True authorial diversity is mostly self-published now, so that's where you'll find the best stories.
Word.
I'm not entirely sure I agree with the idea that traditional publishing provides better quality control than self-publishing. As an editor and an avid reader, I've come across dozens of books published through the traditional route that have basic developmental issues and glaring grammatical problems. Of course, we editors aren't perfect and we do sometimes miss a few errors (and I believe traditional publishing even allows a certain % of the book to be flawed), but even in trad, there are still significant issues with many stories that they put out. I've even seen books where the premise sounded cool, but they *never* delivered their promise or stories with major plot holes that are *never* addressed. Self-publishing can be a hot mess when people don't take the time to get as many eyes on their manuscripts as possible before hitting "publish". However, I believe self-publishing can be strong in the sense that authors can take their time to properly develop a story and ensure it is entirely polished before putting it into the world.; in trad, that isn't always possible. I know several authors published through the Big Five who have to crank out edits of whole novels within the span of 30 days. I think there are pros and cons to both, but like I said, I don't think self-pub as a whole lacks quality control; it depends entirely on the authors.
Very true--thank you for sharing your perspective!
This! The last three YA books I read were just awful and typo-ridden! The other generes are alright, in my opinion
The technology shift has already occurred. Print on demand and ebooks have opened the field to everyone. You don't need traditional publishing for quality control, and is it even quality control or do they practice a kind of cultural gatekeeping? Just hire Beta-readers and an editor to get your manuscript as perfect as you can get it before you release it. Get some help finding every last typo if you need it. Then re-read the whole thing and torture yourself with Strunk and White - Elements of Style for a while. Hire an artist to create original cover art or come up with some yourself. I self published a couple months ago to five star reviews, and my book is now for sale at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, Walmart, and bookstores around the world, and can be ordered through almost any indie bookshop. I can only speculate that if I went traditional I might have had a bigger launch and better marketing. But the timeline for traditional publishing might have pushed that launch out a few more months or even another year away. Currently I'm learning how to record the audiobook which I will also be doing myself.
Yes, timing is definitely one factor that self-publishing has over traditional publishing. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I've self-published twice. I want to try the traditional route but there is a major problem with diversity. It's full of upper to middle-class white people and a lot of literary agents/editors are female. I think it's a bit harder to “breakthrough “ for a black man who writes a bit everything except for what historical pieces and things about slavery and racism.
When I'm searching for agents and editors they want a female minority LGBTQ+ historical fiction piece w/o death and gore. Like many of those in the industry, today say they want diversity but actively cull it with what they want for books.
FPA is ruining my biz. Im a ghostwriter
They're probably profiting because I think the days of the million $ multi-book deals are a thing of the past
No, publishing has not died, nor would it ever as the name 'publishing' connotes, there's always going to be information worthy of publication ---that is ready to be published in. In fact, publishing is about to make a rebound.
Your comments on self publishing does not apply to the Vanity Publishers, I would assume. I had heard that they are not reliable in quality or anything else. Some are good and fulfill the needs of the author to get the book to print but they do not guarantee distribution. That is what selling books is all about. Without distribution through major book sellers you have nothing. Well, door to door selling. Your comparison seem genuine and realistic. I have had my share of contacts with the Vanity group and they don't give you much. Print on demand. But without distribution and promotion, who is going to demand.What is funny about the vanity groups. You pay them for all the services. Then, if you want copies for yourself, you have to buy those as well. Once you get involved with one of those groups, Traditional publishers don't want to talk to you. The bloom is already off the rose.
Yes, I consider vanity publishers to be a "hybrid" publishing path, different from traditional and self-publishing. Thanks for sharing your experience!
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I think Brandon Sanderson definitely rocked a few misconceptions, but his clout has helped him have the success he has. I agree that trad publishing is here to stay, but yes to that unsustainable model! The whole set up reminds me of big corporations like Walmart where those at the top keep most of the money while the managers work 60+ hours a week for paltry pay (my mom for many years). Editors should be paid so much more for what they do, and in the trad industry where more money can be made because of the connections and marketing know-how, this could be done.
TBH, I'm so glad trad publishing is not my goal. I understand the importance of the industry, and it works for those who just want to write (and not wear all the hats as I have to with the indie path) and for those who see the allure of being recognized by an established industry and have their books make it into the big book stores (and other myriad of reasons I'm sure). There are no right or wrong choices in choosing a publishing path, but this type of conversation reinforces my choices. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for your support and this thoughtful comment! I'm glad discussions like these offer clarity about your publishing path--I hope others also get that sense as they watch!
Traditional or self published, it's going to be !ore involved than merely writing and any delusional motions of a easy career if successful. Is best discarded. Walk into a big book seller and scan the store. That, is your competition and not all those on the shelves will be offered another book deal if they don't turn a profit.
I enjoy researching as well and if she can work in your needs my suggestion is hire and pay this woman. Her rates are reasonable and she has experience. Everyone including !myself, is a critic, forget writing groups. wasting money on a masters in fine arts associated with writing and dig in. I fight frustration in writing constantly with my own garbage including a ever changing market. I sometimes laugh at comments on writers websites where a reader comments there is no town by that name, no business by that name, etc and if the writer had a backbone they would have a click button reply to any and all such comments.
"What do you not understand about fiction."
Budding authors need a reality check. 99% of all manuscripts sent to agents get turned down. The reason for this is 99% of books published in todays world fail to even get the publishing costs back. If you want to be known as an author you have to accept the cost of self publishing, and expect to lose most of your money.
You spend close to 2 mins repeating the same intro in every video. It would be better if you straight to the point in your next videos. I like your content though
Sounds like the publishing industry needs labour unions
Traditional publishing isn't dead, but it does have stage 4 cancer.
Thanks for your post as always. We keep talking about authors but what we really mean is female authors because a straight male novelist doesn't have a hope in hell of getting into the girls' club.
Publishers worship the triune god of darwin, freud and webster :) :)
Self-published author, accountant and former auditor who has audited a LOT of traditional publishing companies checking in. I have several, significantly longer videos on my channel that go through the arguments in detail but here's a high-level summary of why I think traditional publishing is dead.
1. The problem with the traditional publishing business model is not with the fact that it's fundamentally gambling.
There are many industries which operate on the same principles-and I'm not just talking about the obvious parallels in movies, stageplays/musicals, etc. Venture capital firms do the same thing, except they place bets on early stage start up businesses instead of books. In fact, all forms of investment work on the same principle, because the reason the gambling business model works is because it is about diversification of risk. Your 401k/retirement plan works on the same principle.
The REAL problem with the traditional publishing business model is that it is a print centric one. The minimum cash outlay to publish a quality book is relatively cheap. What drives up the cost in title P&Ls (which is basically an acquiring editor's wild guess in spreadsheet form) is the assumptions around print quantities. I have a much longer video about this on my channel but essentially PRINT is the reason why most titles don't earn out.
To prove the point, I have three videos breaking down title P&Ls, including one that looks at what the likely title P&L might be for Brandon Sanderson's 4 secret Kickstarter novels.
When you run the title P&L assuming a predominantly digital publication approach, the breakeven point turns out very differently. If you write a quality book and you don't overcapitalize on your per title investment, you can make a profit without selling thousands of copies. And in keeping with the principle of diversifying risk, what you need to make a sustainable income is a large number of modestly profitable books, instead of trying to hit the jackpot by writing one hugely profitable book.
You do not need to be Brandon Sanderson to be able to self-publish full time and I am so disappointed that much of the conversation around his Kickstarter success was..."oh nobody else can reproduce his results so it's not gonna change anything". I've done three long videos on this topic debunking all of the assumptions underpinning that argument and I've barely scratched the surface of what we can learn from his success.
2. The argument about the curation aspect of traditional publishing/lack of gate keeping when it comes to self-publishing is largely irrelevant when considered in the context of sustainability as a business model.
Readers don't buy books that don't satisfy their reading desires. Also, there is no universal consensus on what constitutes a good book, because that is subject to reader preferences. We all know this and we all preach this.
So that reduces the argument about quality to a few elements that people like to consider objective measures of quality (e.g. typesetting, typos, spelling and grammatical errors). Except these are not as objective as they appear. Hop on over to web serialization platforms and you'll discover that there is an entire market of readers who don't care if the story is riddled with spelling and grammatical errors, as long as they get daily instalments that hit all of the tropes in their preferred niche and will sign up on Patreon to support their favorite authors. And then hop over to some corners of Booktube where you have readers who are loud and proud that if they see a single typo or poorly typeset book, they will DNF it no matter what.
The only relevant metrics in the end are how many people buy the book (in whatever format), how many people read the book (including from libraries, private loans, KU, etc) and how many readers enjoyed the book. And those metrics are really a better measure of how aligned the book's marketing is with what the story is and need to be considered in the context of the overall size of the market itself and how established the author's readership is.
But that's not even the biggest reason of all.
3. The value provided by a traditional publishing house is just not worth the trade-off an author has to make in terms of control and royalties.
Yes, traditional publishing houses have fantastic editors. Yes, they have fantastic print distribution. Yes, they have marketing teams who can help you reach a far wider audience and secure marketing opportunities than you can on your own. Yes, they have established networks and relationships and experience that you, as an author, probably don't (and even if you did, you would probably be better off spending that time writing your next book).
But I don't see how the value provided for each of those things is worth me giving up the lion's share of the profits. That USED to be a fair arrangement, when print distribution was the only way to get your book out to readers and large offset print runs were the only cost-effective way to print books and the only entities with enough cash on hand to bet on a large offset print run is a traditional publishing house with capital.
But that is not the case today. As a self-published author, I can hire the same cover designers, artists, book designers, editors, proofreaders, marketing experts, etc that a traditional publishing house would do. I can minimize the risk of launching a print format by going print-on-demand, which is more expensive on a per-unit basis but is practically zero risk for me, because the relative cost of producing a print-ready PDF is minimal in the overall title P&L and I pay zero production, warehousing and fulfilment costs until I have a paying customer.
Any book that is commercially successful, whether it has been traditionally published or self-published, has an effective genre-appropriate cover, a compelling blurb, is well-formatted and written in a way that is satisfying for its target market. If it lacked any of those elements, it would not be selling.
So all a traditional publishing house ends up being is a glorified project manager. Sure, there can be value add there, but not to the tune of the lion's share of the royalties from book sales. And as you pointed out, the profits are not trickling down. Erin Fulmer's Twitter thread has a great analysis of where all the money is ultimately going...and it's not to any of the people who have had a direct role in turning those books from idea to reality.
As Barry Eisler said back in his 2013 Guardian article: "We should not conflate publishing services with the entities that have traditionally provided them. The services are essential; the entities are not."
I would much rather see a new paradigm where authors are in control and the majority of the money is accruing to the cover and book designers, editors, artists and authors instead of to large corporations whose ultimate shareholders are a few individuals who are already absurdly rich.