I work at an airport, (aircraft mechanic), so I work with a lot of different diesel equipment. Airports tend to have a very mixed bag of old and new equipment, so I can experience the differences multiple times a day. I have to say, I really do appreciate the newer equipment. It tends to be much quieter, cleaner, and generally not annoying to be around. Compare that to the older stuff, and you'd better be working upwind and wearing earplugs. Also good luck communicating with fellow workers.
I have to agree- I have gotten quite a few comments on some of my videos telling me I should have purchased a certain brand of tractor because it doesn't have emissions. Great info Neil!
As somebody that is works on diesel emissions, I can't wait for tier 5. What I have seen for the most part is DOC and SCR for the main components. Droping down to 1 ecm and no longer using egr. Should be a much simpler and reliable units.
There's alot of fantastic info on this. Thank you! For those that are complaining about it being more than 3 minutes, just stop it after your 3 minute limit ... simple. I think it's really easy to figure out Neil's 3 minute videos have evolved into "short informational videos" ... duh!!!
Niel, I appreciate the information on the different tiers in the diesel engines. I still prefer the non smoke scrubber engines guess I am old school. Thanks 😊
Thanks, Messick's very informative. I think asinine politics have driven most of the EPA emissions regulations for off road engines. Since a manufacturer can make two tractors, one with stringent emissions standards for sale in the US, and one without emissions for export to most other parts of the world, I would surmise the American farmers are made to bear the burden of 'saving the planet' while the rest of humanity is going about, business as usual without downtime due to added off road emissions. IMO, it's foolish to screw the people that feed the planet.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of engines don't even utilize a dpf filter anywhere (unless it's a permanent fixture in the system), everything is handled through the SCR system. Either way, all the emission reduction junk is all another thing to deal with and always hoping it just works without error.
Around 2008 when the requirements to lower diesel particulate began, oil refineries switched from making diesel fuel from thicker and heavier oils towards the lighter sweeter crude oils. That’s why around 2008 diesel fuel went from being cheaper than gasoline to being more expensive than gasoline. I wonder if the newer low sulfur diesel fuel has had negative effects on older Diesel engines?
I feel the current diesel emissions technology is like the emissions of the 70’s through early 90’s. Obviously in a way more complex way but still.....
You got to love regulators that come up with all of this stuff from a nice corner desk and NEVER get behind the wheel of a tractor!! Don’t worry they are working on T-5 probably right now.
@@MessicksEquip I wonder what that consist of, a cardboard box panted like a tractor and Fred Flintstone engine? Oh what wonders these regulators push on us!
I have an L3901. I never use the power take-off, only backhoe, FEL, and grapple. What is optimal RPM's to avoid regeneration every 10-12 hours ( usually just as I park it to call it a day)?
Howdy from central Wisconsin: ? Could i get a does of Mesixs helpful info. trailering n strapping down tractors n attachments please. You good Thankyou
Anyone notice how the EPA puts rates on HP and not torque? A 26 HP engine could have low or high torque rating.... The EPA gets lobbied from engine brands with each emissions change.
So my B2650 is a dirty tier 4! 😳 Al gore is going to be upset over this! He’ll have to fly around in his private jet (cranking out millions of tons of emissions) to talk about how these “dirty tractors” are going to make the sky fall down. 😳😭
Good breakdown of where things have come from Neil. I appreciate all the information and hate we're having to deal with this emission issue. The EPA needs some common sense in regards to diesels and how their used in my opinion. Pretty sad scenario overall. Thanks for all your time spent doing these informative videos!
What was "Interim Tier 4"? I saw many engines listed as that. Most folks buying tractors with 26HP or less seem to not really care about the Tier 4 classification. They just prefer an engine that doesn't require high temperature regens to clean an expensive DPF filter. Most small tractors with a DPF will require a replacement around 3000 hrs.
Maybe $400 for literally just the hotsoak on the filter, more like $1200 after paying the technician too. Most will end up being replaced, aswell as half the exhaust. After 3000hrs that exhaust is gonna be rusted solid. Im not being a downer as I feel it is worth it for what you get, just tryna be real here.
Thanks for this video. But like the person before me, I noticed that 3 minutes took 9 minutes. Of course, that's normal dealing with "government regulations."
I homed in on the L2501 as it is bigger than I need but it meets Tier 4 without, not the DPF, but without the sensors and electronic controls that go with it. I just don't want to be chasing error codes on a tractor that I use weekly for various tasks on my 4 acre place. If I were using one commercially or if I needed more power, I would buy one with those potential problem sources as a trade off for more power.
I bought a M5-091 in april 2019, I have always been concerned about the DEF. My dealer told me back in the winter kubota was going to have a recall on the DEF head and replace it because the sensors corrode in the DEF. They say parts are still not available. What do you know about this issue?
Forget about the scrubber- never use any Tier IV equipment ever unless you delete it. Tier 4 emissions was basically a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound. To truly cut down on emissions you have to do it internally in the engine. Adding an after treatment system is expensive and extremely cumbersome and detrimental to your equipment. The EPA has no business telling you what to do with equipment that you own. Delete and Repeat.
The first part of 2021 I will be in the market for a tractor. I most likely will require a bit more then 26 horsepower. But, I refuse to buy a tractor with the after treatment systems. For myself I'll work the smaller tractor harder and except the more wear and tear. If the new tractors have after treatment repair costs similar to my on road diesel truck then no thank you! Of course the Emissions components will only fail once the tractor is out of its warranty period.
@@MessicksEquip There are parallels between on road diesel Tier 4 engines after treatments. My 14 Ram uses DOC/DPF modual in the exhaust as do your tractors. The costs to replace it when you have component failure, premature or otherwise, is very expensive. Ask me how I know! In my opinion being aware of the cost of ownership is smart. I've learned my lessons by not considering that when buying my truck.
I too have been shopping around for a tractor between the 26 to 50 horsepower range I saw some interesting things on the Branson Site. people say that because they're not electronically controlled engines they can be easily deleted also Branson seems to have a heavier tractor than most everybody and their lift bucket specs are off the charts compared to others
You do if you open the fuel cap and smell what's in the tank, there's a bit of exhaust vapor you'll smell of course, but the new stuff when its running right and tuned properly doesn't have much of a noxious odor if any...its the idiots in their diesel pickups with their fuel pressures cranked up that are blowing fuel all over that isn't burned, or partially burned creating more obnoxious diesel fuel odors than tractors are LOL.
The only question I have. Why isn't a system to delete all this garbage readily available? Everyone rips emissions crap off their diesel trucks. Aside from a few hole in the wall people who only work on farm tractors. Seems to be a very large untapped Market..
Because its illegal and the epa has been and will go after anybody who does it professionally. Its not that its not being done, its just that people are being much quieter about who's doing it now.
I work at an airport, (aircraft mechanic), so I work with a lot of different diesel equipment. Airports tend to have a very mixed bag of old and new equipment, so I can experience the differences multiple times a day.
I have to say, I really do appreciate the newer equipment. It tends to be much quieter, cleaner, and generally not annoying to be around. Compare that to the older stuff, and you'd better be working upwind and wearing earplugs. Also good luck communicating with fellow workers.
When my lawnmower needs a scan tool to program the replacement starter rope I’m done buying and building everything I need.
I have to agree- I have gotten quite a few comments on some of my videos telling me I should have purchased a certain brand of tractor because it doesn't have emissions. Great info Neil!
As somebody that is works on diesel emissions, I can't wait for tier 5. What I have seen for the most part is DOC and SCR for the main components. Droping down to 1 ecm and no longer using egr. Should be a much simpler and reliable units.
Amazing video. I love getting all the nitty gritty details
There's alot of fantastic info on this. Thank you! For those that are complaining about it being more than 3 minutes, just stop it after your 3 minute limit ... simple. I think it's really easy to figure out Neil's 3 minute videos have evolved into "short informational videos" ... duh!!!
What an education ! Thanks Neil 👍🏻
Good information Neil. Well done.
Niel, I appreciate the information on the different tiers in the diesel engines. I still prefer the non smoke scrubber engines guess I am old school. Thanks 😊
love the videos Sir . I would drive from Louisiana to Pa. to buy from You .
Thanks, Messick's very informative. I think asinine politics have driven most of the EPA emissions regulations for off road engines. Since a manufacturer can make two tractors, one with stringent emissions standards for sale in the US, and one without emissions for export to most other parts of the world, I would surmise the American farmers are made to bear the burden of 'saving the planet' while the rest of humanity is going about, business as usual without downtime due to added off road emissions. IMO, it's foolish to screw the people that feed the planet.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of engines don't even utilize a dpf filter anywhere (unless it's a permanent fixture in the system), everything is handled through the SCR system.
Either way, all the emission reduction junk is all another thing to deal with and always hoping it just works without error.
Over 25hp, you need a dpf or doc for soot
Well, 3 minutes x 3 does = 9 minutes. I enjoy the informative videos.
Around 2008 when the requirements to lower diesel particulate began, oil refineries switched from making diesel fuel from thicker and heavier oils towards the lighter sweeter crude oils. That’s why around 2008 diesel fuel went from being cheaper than gasoline to being more expensive than gasoline. I wonder if the newer low sulfur diesel fuel has had negative effects on older Diesel engines?
Lubricty of the fuel is a major difference.
They still make thicker diesel fuels but for the maritime industry.
Some times called bunker C or bunker fuel is one such fuel
I feel the current diesel emissions technology is like the emissions of the 70’s through early 90’s. Obviously in a way more complex way but still.....
You got to love regulators that come up with all of this stuff from a nice corner desk and NEVER get behind the wheel of a tractor!! Don’t worry they are working on T-5 probably right now.
Tier 5 has been defined for years. No dates for it in the USA.
@@MessicksEquip I wonder what that consist of, a cardboard box panted like a tractor and Fred Flintstone engine? Oh what wonders these regulators push on us!
thanks Neil, i was wondering why my dad's new L2501 didn't have a DPF......
I have a 1998 NH 2120 that doesn't have any emissions stuff on it.. I add ATF to the fuel for lubrication.
Great information. Thanks as always
I have an L3901. I never use the power take-off, only backhoe, FEL, and grapple. What is optimal RPM's to avoid regeneration every 10-12 hours ( usually just as I park it to call it a day)?
2\3 or more
Howdy from central Wisconsin: ? Could i get a does of Mesixs helpful info. trailering n strapping down tractors n attachments please. You good Thankyou
Search. I've done this
Thanks Neil, can you do a video with the Lane Shark?
Did 3-4. Used a Titan Trailblazer
Hey Neil What’s the name of that additive if you can get for the Diesel?
Power Service, Hot Shot are some of the better brands.
First! Keep up the great work Messicks!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Anyone notice how the EPA puts rates on HP and not torque? A 26 HP engine could have low or high torque rating....
The EPA gets lobbied from engine brands with each emissions change.
I know this video is old but my dealer told me it was up to 39hp, not 26. Am I missing something? Did it change?
your dealer was wrong
So my B2650 is a dirty tier 4! 😳 Al gore is going to be upset over this! He’ll have to fly around in his private jet (cranking out millions of tons of emissions) to talk about how these “dirty tractors” are going to make the sky fall down. 😳😭
Good breakdown of where things have come from Neil. I appreciate all the information and hate we're having to deal with this emission issue. The EPA needs some common sense in regards to diesels and how their used in my opinion. Pretty sad scenario overall. Thanks for all your time spent doing these informative videos!
Usually i dump in some 2 stroke oil with a tank of diesel for an older machine. Keeps the injector pump and injectors lubed
Oh cool. Remind me to never buy a tractor from you
@@zacharyhenderson2902 whys that?
@@zacharyhenderson2902 farmers have been doing that for years, in fact i know 3 who have been doing it since before i was born
What was "Interim Tier 4"? I saw many engines listed as that. Most folks buying tractors with 26HP or less seem to not really care about the Tier 4 classification. They just prefer an engine that doesn't require high temperature regens to clean an expensive DPF filter. Most small tractors with a DPF will require a replacement around 3000 hrs.
$400 cleaning, not replacement
Maybe $400 for literally just the hotsoak on the filter, more like $1200 after paying the technician too. Most will end up being replaced, aswell as half the exhaust. After 3000hrs that exhaust is gonna be rusted solid. Im not being a downer as I feel it is worth it for what you get, just tryna be real here.
The dpf swap is not hard, but too your point there is still a lot we don't know when it comes to 20-30 years into this stuff
@@MessicksEquip That's what scares me,,, the long-term cost
Thanks for this video. But like the person before me, I noticed that 3 minutes took 9 minutes. Of course, that's normal dealing with "government regulations."
Neil, can do you do a video on that Boomer 35?
I believe we did this model already
Nice hair cut bud
Good video 👍and educational
Wtf
That was a lot longer than 3 min! :)
Its too bad your so far from me. A tractor is only as good as supporting dealer.
I homed in on the L2501 as it is bigger than I need but it meets Tier 4 without, not the DPF, but without the sensors and electronic controls that go with it. I just don't want to be chasing error codes on a tractor that I use weekly for various tasks on my 4 acre place. If I were using one commercially or if I needed more power, I would buy one with those potential problem sources as a trade off for more power.
I bought a M5-091 in april 2019, I have always been concerned about the DEF. My dealer told me back in the winter kubota was going to have a recall on the DEF head and replace it because the sensors corrode in the DEF. They say parts are still not available. What do you know about this issue?
Jerry Dikerson your Fxxxed.
Neil can you cut high grass and light weed growth 3 foot high thanks paul sellars
With what?
@@MessicksEquip sorry for got 6 ft brush hog finish mower
Never put a scrubber on a tier 4F.
Will cost you an engine.
Forget about the scrubber- never use any Tier IV equipment ever unless you delete it. Tier 4 emissions was basically a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound. To truly cut down on emissions you have to do it internally in the engine. Adding an after treatment system is expensive and extremely cumbersome and detrimental to your equipment. The EPA has no business telling you what to do with equipment that you own.
Delete and Repeat.
The first part of 2021 I will be in the market for a tractor. I most likely will require a bit more then 26 horsepower. But, I refuse to buy a tractor with the after treatment systems. For myself I'll work the smaller tractor harder and except the more wear and tear. If the new tractors have after treatment repair costs similar to my on road diesel truck then no thank you! Of course the Emissions components will only fail once the tractor is out of its warranty period.
I'd see no sense in that. There are basically no parallels from trucks who require def, to sub 75hp tractors
I think the concern is more points of failure.
@@MessicksEquip Of course you don't, you're trying to sell tractors
@@MessicksEquip There are parallels between on road diesel Tier 4 engines after treatments. My 14 Ram uses DOC/DPF modual in the exhaust as do your tractors. The costs to replace it when you have component failure, premature or otherwise, is very expensive. Ask me how I know!
In my opinion being aware of the cost of ownership is smart. I've learned my lessons by not considering that when buying my truck.
I too have been shopping around for a tractor between the 26 to 50 horsepower range I saw some interesting things on the Branson Site. people say that because they're not electronically controlled engines they can be easily deleted also Branson seems to have a heavier tractor than most everybody and their lift bucket specs are off the charts compared to others
Do you even smell the diesel fuel in new tractors under, say 37 hp?
Not really, no
You do if you open the fuel cap and smell what's in the tank, there's a bit of exhaust vapor you'll smell of course, but the new stuff when its running right and tuned properly doesn't have much of a noxious odor if any...its the idiots in their diesel pickups with their fuel pressures cranked up that are blowing fuel all over that isn't burned, or partially burned creating more obnoxious diesel fuel odors than tractors are LOL.
Neil Peart or Danny Carey?
Emissions suck!!! Buy used pre-emission equipment
Better go to the ATM machine and get some cash for your DEF fluid. 😬
Purchase at a truckstop. Its around $3 a gallon. In the diesel lanes.
@@briansupremepizza4340 you missed the joke
Bottom line California liberal epa then fed epa screwed everything up and of course cal epa now says def is bad.
The only question I have. Why isn't a system to delete all this garbage readily available? Everyone rips emissions crap off their diesel trucks.
Aside from a few hole in the wall people who only work on farm tractors. Seems to be a very large untapped Market..
Because its illegal and the epa has been and will go after anybody who does it professionally. Its not that its not being done, its just that people are being much quieter about who's doing it now.
@@killstrees
Why don't we abolish the EPA instead of the police departments?