When zoomed as far as possible, each of those small dots along the waveform represents a sample. The truth is, destructive/constructive interference is a deep, dark rabbithole that will suck you in and never let you go if you choose to fall down into the depths of its details. Phase is easily one of, if not the most difficult concept for any mixing engineer to master. There are so many considerations to make when thinking about phase coherence. I think the golden rule always applies here -- "if it sounds good, it is good." These are murky waters, and while you can easily learn all there is to know about phase in several years, the fact of the matter is that music is for listening, not analysing. As much as I love to be asinine about perfection in my productions, likelihood is that if you end up with a masterpiece in your lap after a couple weeks of work, you're going to send it off to a better, smarter engineer to mix it for you anyways -- or at least for a second pair of ears. It's important to keep in mind that some absolutely massive artists would never have achieved the signatures they're so well known for by following all the rules. Skrillex' "Scary Monsters" growl was a failed imitation of a Noisia-style reese bass. Future Riddim as a genre essentially operates on discovering new ways to violate sound sources as brutally as possible. You're not going to find inspiration by playing within the lines, at least not anymore, if you're trying to keep up with modern styles of electronic music. Even Billie Eilish and Dua Lipa's success can to some extent be attributed to the explorative, curious approaches that Finneas and Ian Kirkpatrick took during the production of many of those songs. If you're still seriously curious about the depth of phase, here are some things you should know before going off the deep end: - In almost all cases, the only time phase is going to affect your mix is in the low-end. Try to avoid rotating the phase of kicks, 808s, basses, etc. This is going to affect some sounds more than others -- extremely atonal sounds like stomps or stereo impacts do not care, but FM bass or sampled sines are going to respond much more dramatically to subtle changes. - In almost all cases, all phase-related issues can be resolved by making an improvement to the ARRANGEMENT of the track. Think macro-adjustments, move elements out of each other's way. - Phase rotation can be a GOOD thing, too. See some of Dan Worrall's videos on stereo imaging for creative ways of taking advantage of minimal-phase filters (honestly, see all of his content). - Keep in mind the scale of the data you're looking at when dealing with phase. 1db of gain can just be attenuated. These are small problems occuring at the very small timescale, and will not make as big a difference as you think. - Minimal Phase ALSO has its own drawbacks! Look into pre-/post-ringing. Realize that you should solve your problems at the source -- as fun and powerful it might make you feel, don't try to sculpt every single sound into the one your track needs, synthesize it to be the right sound from the beginning. The gentler you can be with EQ moves, the better, in most cases. Allpass filters operate by adjusting the phase of a sound. kHs Disperser is an allpass filter. Almost all reverbs operate using a feedback network containing comb and allpass filters. Check out Au5's video on 'phase-dispersed saw' to see how phase can be just as cool a tool to leverage for creation as it is a pain to deal with ruining the consistency of some sounds. Good luck soldier
Thank you for the awesome response!! You're freaking awesome. The one thing I've been trying to focus on lately is eq, and more or less when to not use it. In the context of FM bass, a lot of bassheads I know will make an fm patch with a ~50hz sin wave as the carrier and EQ out the fundamental of said patch and add another sin to compliment. What worries me is that this could cause phasing issues in the harmony between the fundamental and the lower harmonics of the FM-y-ness. Is that possible? Or am I thinking too hard?
When zoomed as far as possible, each of those small dots along the waveform represents a sample.
The truth is, destructive/constructive interference is a deep, dark rabbithole that will suck you in and never let you go if you choose to fall down into the depths of its details. Phase is easily one of, if not the most difficult concept for any mixing engineer to master. There are so many considerations to make when thinking about phase coherence.
I think the golden rule always applies here -- "if it sounds good, it is good." These are murky waters, and while you can easily learn all there is to know about phase in several years, the fact of the matter is that music is for listening, not analysing. As much as I love to be asinine about perfection in my productions, likelihood is that if you end up with a masterpiece in your lap after a couple weeks of work, you're going to send it off to a better, smarter engineer to mix it for you anyways -- or at least for a second pair of ears.
It's important to keep in mind that some absolutely massive artists would never have achieved the signatures they're so well known for by following all the rules. Skrillex' "Scary Monsters" growl was a failed imitation of a Noisia-style reese bass. Future Riddim as a genre essentially operates on discovering new ways to violate sound sources as brutally as possible. You're not going to find inspiration by playing within the lines, at least not anymore, if you're trying to keep up with modern styles of electronic music. Even Billie Eilish and Dua Lipa's success can to some extent be attributed to the explorative, curious approaches that Finneas and Ian Kirkpatrick took during the production of many of those songs.
If you're still seriously curious about the depth of phase, here are some things you should know before going off the deep end:
- In almost all cases, the only time phase is going to affect your mix is in the low-end. Try to avoid rotating the phase of kicks, 808s, basses, etc. This is going to affect some sounds more than others -- extremely atonal sounds like stomps or stereo impacts do not care, but FM bass or sampled sines are going to respond much more dramatically to subtle changes.
- In almost all cases, all phase-related issues can be resolved by making an improvement to the ARRANGEMENT of the track. Think macro-adjustments, move elements out of each other's way.
- Phase rotation can be a GOOD thing, too. See some of Dan Worrall's videos on stereo imaging for creative ways of taking advantage of minimal-phase filters (honestly, see all of his content).
- Keep in mind the scale of the data you're looking at when dealing with phase. 1db of gain can just be attenuated. These are small problems occuring at the very small timescale, and will not make as big a difference as you think.
- Minimal Phase ALSO has its own drawbacks! Look into pre-/post-ringing. Realize that you should solve your problems at the source -- as fun and powerful it might make you feel, don't try to sculpt every single sound into the one your track needs, synthesize it to be the right sound from the beginning. The gentler you can be with EQ moves, the better, in most cases.
Allpass filters operate by adjusting the phase of a sound. kHs Disperser is an allpass filter. Almost all reverbs operate using a feedback network containing comb and allpass filters. Check out Au5's video on 'phase-dispersed saw' to see how phase can be just as cool a tool to leverage for creation as it is a pain to deal with ruining the consistency of some sounds. Good luck soldier
Thank you for the awesome response!! You're freaking awesome.
The one thing I've been trying to focus on lately is eq, and more or less when to not use it.
In the context of FM bass, a lot of bassheads I know will make an fm patch with a ~50hz sin wave as the carrier and EQ out the fundamental of said patch and add another sin to compliment. What worries me is that this could cause phasing issues in the harmony between the fundamental and the lower harmonics of the FM-y-ness. Is that possible? Or am I thinking too hard?
the Mr bill video in question: ua-cam.com/video/rZ-XmTGaBso/v-deo.html