Moderately interesting fact: Simmons dedicated this book to Wabash College. My old roommate went Wabash and when I sent the dedication to him he said that The Iliad was required reading there
I’ve yet to read any Dan Simmons. Hyperion is on my radar. But I absolutely love Ancient Greek/Roman mythology so this book may have to take precedence over Hyperion. Thanks for getting me excited to read this one!
You will love Ilium and Olympos, guaranteed. Read it - or listen to it on audible, either way - you'll love it. It's such an epic and awesome story and I love how greek history is intermingled with sci fi.
I listed this as my all-time favorite scifi book. Absolutely loved everything about this duology, the Shakespeare, the Illiad, the technology, it just worked for me so well and I still don't know how.
Just finished this one this week and I tore through the last 300 pages at record pace thanks to your review. I had read Hyperion and "Fall of" years ago, but was on-the-fence for this one. Thanks for pushing me toward it again. It was very worth it! Olympos will be on-deck soon.
Love Simmons stuff. Finally found time to enjoy Hyperion series earlier this year and it had such a powerful effect on me. I’m gonna look for this book in the shop next time I’m in, and thanks for the Peter F Hamilton suggestion!
Great video! Dan Simmons is one of my favorite authors. I've read Hyperion 3 times. Have you heard of the "12 Planets of the Intergalactic Map" series? Book 3 called "The Vandekirians" was just released. It's main plot is: "What happens when 12 civilizations from different planets meet for the very first time? Will their common origin unite them into a mighty Intergalactic Empire? Or will they destroy each other?" The world-building alone is so imaginative and creative to behold, and the character-driven and grand mythos of this universe the author has created is very engaging and mesmerizing.
Thank you so much for actually reviewing the physical book. Few do. Earned my sub for that alone. No bookstores in my town and buying at Amazon blind is hit or miss and like you, I hate broken spines. About to order this bad boy.
Haha you’re welcome! I don’t always talk about the physical book, but I will if I think it has any noteworthy good or bad qualities. I hope you enjoy the book!
Great review, Jonathan! I think you nailed it as I pretty much felt the same about it. I have a friend who has a Masters in Classical Studies, so I've been able to talk to him a bit about the Greek myth parts and he's given me a little more insight. He tried to read the book many years ago but couldn't get into it. I was the same though, so after hearing me enthusiastically talk about it, he decided he's going to give it another shot. So, it should be interesting getting deeper into the mythology of the book with him after he reads it. I'd be interested in hearing what threads and descriptions were minor issues with you, though I know you can't do it here because spoilers and all. I had a few moments like that too, but some of them I re-considered, looking at them in a different light, and my feelings about them changed. Anyway, loved the book and so far, I'm enjoying Olympos too!
Awesome, I’m glad you enjoyed it too! It will be interesting to hear any insights on the mythology from your friend. Looking forward to discussing Olympos!
To me, Ilium & Olympos is/are one of my two favorite modern duologies in SF. (Along side V.Vinge's Fire Upon the Deep, with its added prequels/sequels.) All way better than Pandora's Star, IMHO. To explain the interrelationships between the three story lines in these two books would be really difficult, but I would say that I could identify/empathize with the primary characters in each. While I can hardly remember the individual characters in Pandora's star. Dan, if you are reading this, please tell us what happened to the Moravecs! Best single description I could use would be, "Fantastical" Sci-fi which spans the middle solar system.
i started this one with high hopes just as online video games hit my modem and was distracted from reading for a few years. the back cover description sounded fantastic but one gets a lot of Huckleberry to wade through at first. i did recently enjoy Drood! so there is that. Simmons can really hook you with big, sharp hooks.
Wow! You were a bit higher than me on it - I gave it 3.5/5, although I am very interested in where the story goes in Olympos. We share one criticism - character development- but my other big one is that I felt that the ending of this didn’t really come together as well as I had hoped. Hopefully the second book will bring things together for me! This is definitely an extremely ambitious book! Oh, and I’m with you: what’s with these barbarians that crease their spines?
Take care of your books and they’ll take care of you! I liked what each of the stories built to, and I didn’t mind the lack of character development too much simply because I was so engrossed in the story!
@@WordsinTime Do you have in space horror to recommend...I heard Hull Zero Three and Ship of Fools (English title was 'Unto Leviathan') were good and scary.
Ah shiiiiiit I got a shout out but never got a Channel MENTION WTF MAN??? Lmao jk, glad this ultimately satisfied! I'll heavily consider trying this duology out for myself at some point in time haha Hope Olympus is a great ending based on the praise for this first half :D
You inspired me to read this one sooner than I planned and glad I did. Loved pretty much everything about it. I was even more generous and gave it a 9.5! Thanks 👍
That’s great to hear Dave, I’m glad you liked it! I think there’s a few weird aspects in Olympos but I think it hits some good high points as well. Hope you enjoy!
@@WordsinTime I finished Olympos too and went into it with low expectations due to some of the negative reviews and was definitely pleasantly surprised. The positives way exceed any of the perceived negatives. Not quite as good as Ilium but a very worthy sequel. Did you know Simmons was considering a third novel? Which is maybe why he left a few things open. I think he's scrapped that idea though.
@@daveedmunds1109 Interesting! I hadn’t heard that, but it makes sense. I thought the storyline was mostly satisfying except for when it came to Setebos.
Thanks for your review! I am in the middle of Ilium right now and I was on the fence about stopping reading it for the first 200 pages, but I still kept going with it and the pacing has picked up similarly to the Hyperion Cantos. I am liking the book but it isn't as good as the Hyperion Cantos but I am enjoying the read. I do know that I will be reading Olympos because of the way Dan Simmons writes there will be no way I can wait to finish it.
@@WordsinTime Thanks I hope too as well. I notice his books are very slow and all over the place and he likes to build the story as he writes it. It all seems to make more sense the more you read.
Its been 12 years since I've read this duology, but I can still remember everything about it - the three distinct story lines, the characters, the usage of the many world interpretation and how they connected by the end - unbelievable. Even though not as gut-wrenching and mind-blowing as the Hyperion Cantos (nothing can beat that, not even Simmons himself) these books are absolutely a must read of sci-fi. Also, Dan Simmons is insanely knowledgeable - many of the themes he used, especially quantum mechanics are really well described and fits into the story flawlessly.
There are three main perspectives, but often you get to read from the point of view from multiple characters around them. (Specifically Ada in Daeman's chapters.) And I love the clarifications made through their inner thoughts within the book. I'm halfway through now and loving this book!
It's on my list, My first book from Simmons is sitting on my bookshelf; on the TBR section, it's "The Terror," I wanted to start on something like 'Hyperion," but as of late I've hit some mental burnout with heavier fantasy... I appreciate the video and thanks to you "Ilium' was added to my TBR.. a few years away but hey..
Thanks for the video. I originally was interested in this book after I finished Hyperion (which I loved) and passed it up because the description did not resonate. However, after this video I have since started and really enjoyed it so far. I do have a random question I am hoping someone can answer. I tried search wiki fandom but surprisingly no summary there. Why does Hockenberry think he only has one day to live before the Gods will kill him? I get he does some drastic things after his shenanigans with Helen, but what did he initially do? I must have missed it.
I’m glad you’re enjoying it! I thought Olympos had some weird things in it but overall I’m glad I read this duology! In regard to your question, I don’t specifically remember him thinking he only had one day to live, but I remember him thinking that at any point he could get found out for being in possession of items he wasn’t supposed to have.
@@rylansmith4065 I think Aphrodite wants him to help her destroy Athena. So I think he is afraid of disobeying Aphrodite and is afraid of getting caught by Athena.
still my no.1 book. It has a special place in my heart. Coming from someone who doesnt read, this book flowed so well for me. I really struggled to put this book down.
"Ilium" was like a super-long lecture from an amazingly entertaining professor with an incredible imagination and a wicked sense of humor. I would have loved to have been one of Simmons' Classical Lit students. The man understood how to take the Old Form of storytelling (the oral tradition: voice and memory, aided by song) and transmute it into the New Form; the written style we're all familiar with, then break it down so that we unmodified humans can understand it as the epic it really was. We have to remember that nearly ALL of the data we have on the Trojan War was NOT written down, not even by Homer, until MUCH later in the histories of the combined "Greek" city-states. (They didn't even call themselves "Greek" until the Romans absorbed their entire culture and history.) We also have to keep in mind that the Iliad was SUNG until it was finally written down. Traditionally, the verses were accompanied by a four-string lyre but wood flutes and panpipes were often used. (Archeologists have even found musical notation written for it which might or night not have come from Euripedes.) Taken as a whole, it sounded like a somewhat repetitious folk song. (Imagine listening to Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell singing 15,693 lines of verse. Just shoot me now, with a really big gun...) Somehow, Simmons managed to keep a lot of that musical feel intact. I got the sense that he was telling a series of interrelated folk tales, with a strange, internal rhythm which sounds really cool once you feel the beat. Yes, this book and "Olympos" considered as a whole, is a towering achievement in Literature. It's a tour of Old Lit, Middle Ages Lit, and New Lit, with a message and a moral buried in almost every turn. The characters are so well-drawn because they're all forced to make choices--and some are good, some not so good, and some horrifying in the extreme. (Imagine for a moment that you are the AI/WorldNet character Prospero. We kind of think of Caliban being the chief Bad Guy, but WHO CREATED CALIBAN? Prospero and Circe, both of whom had very different reasons for doing so. The book(s) is/are FILLED with flawed characters who learn and grow and become something much more than they were before; Daeman and Harman for example. Holy smoke, there's a couple of awesome character arcs! With his usual twisted, wicked humor, Simmons made the moravecs the ONLY creatures in the series that had an unshakeable sense of Right and Wrong, even if they were mostly machines with only bits of human DNA and certain organs like an organic heart and brain. They were the REAL children of our best hopes and dreams, our best aspirations. That's why they were so likeable; they reflected what we WANTED to be and did a smashing good job of it. The leader of the Belt rockvecs, General Beh bin Adee was a hoot! In my mind, he sounds like a British General. It figures he'd like Kipling. ("I say! That's a cracking good poem!") The moravecs are the Voices of Conscience here; the classic Greek Chorus. Hockenberry might be telling most of the story and the Old-Style humans may have been the ones who learned the most about being human but the moravecs are the people who keep the story on track and give us the Big Picture, notably that old crab Orphu of Io. Simmons could write an entire series about the moravecs and I would be FASCINATED.
"Language nerd's paradise"? Dude, I am SO there! BUT... does it end on a cliffhanger? I don't mind ambiguous, but cliffhangers are a cheat for me, and leave me angry. I've never read any Simmons before, but the Greek mythology angle grabs my attention (I'm a fan of Mary Renault and Madeline Miller-- if you're not familiar with either, check 'em out: Sir, it's Greek myths--they ARE a fantasy books!) Thanks for the great work!
Haha I’m glad it sounds interesting! To answer your question of whether it ends on a cliffhanger, I would say yes and no. It’s definitely not a complete story, you need to read Olympos as well to complete the story. However, Ilium does come to a natural breaking point and I didn’t find it to be a cheat of a cliffhanger. There are some weird moments in Olympos and I thought it lost some steam in the final 100 pages, but overall I found the journey engaging.
Hyperion Cantos is sci fi masterpiece! But Ilium/Olympus is something else, levels above! Mind boggling and mind blowing! There are parts which made me almost choke from laughter! I mean, Hockenberry as protagonist, come on! In who would you transform yourself if you could, any person during the siege of Troy? Well Hockenberry made my day! 🤣🤣🤣
As soon as you said “word nerd”, I rushed to Amazon and read the sample (I love amazon’s samples. In short story books you can usually read a whole story). Simmons begins with the exact words of the Iliad! Then riffs down until the story. He is up-to-date on his the facts about Troy so I’m eager to see what else he knows. I knew about this book but books about the gods or Ancient Greece at all are usually so dismal and uninformed, I can’t abide them. So, thanks for steering me.
@@WordsinTime so far-20% in-the book is brilliant. He definitely knows his stuff; such stuff being the Iliad which he carefully follows; astronomy, including knowing that Io is the most energy packed body in the solar system; and Proust-though on that point we don’t float in the same boat. I love that i can think about Proust and the Iliad in one book. For those familiar with these sources, it’s a great trip!
What if the chess game feel was intended as the gods in the classic movies of greek mythology pushed the figurines of the heroes and monsters on their gaming board. Something in the style of the Clash of the Titans?
@@WordsinTime I was 35 in 2019. I had a stroke that took words from me. I had read Hyperion before. The Poets story resonated with me so strongly. Especially when my mom heard my first 'F' bomb. XD "Yeah, I can still say it"! LMAO
I don't think Dr. Chase covers anything but fantasy. I haven't heard him mention Simmons at all. The one SF exception I can think of is covering the Dune film. If you want SF videos, check out Media Death Cult channel or Raf Blutaxt. Raf is actually running a series on Simmons currently, though it may turn out more critical than you want.
Thanks for the recommendations! I follow those channels as well! I know Philip Chase focuses on fantasy, but Ilium blends some fantasy and mythology in with the sci-fi, so I think it’s something he might potentially find interesting if we can convince him to read it haha
@@WordsinTime I'm actually worried about him a bit. He got pulled into reading Bakker, which may affect his personality or outlook. Hoping he doesn't go over to the dark side.
In your discussion, you mentioned that it felt like the characters were part of a game. That’s exactly what was going on in the Iliad. The human characters were being moved around the board by the Greek gods. So, if Simmons had you feeling that, then the story was clearly influenced by the Iliad.
Thank you so much for your reviews! (I based my reading on some of your recommendations and haven't been disappointed yet). I wish you get more publicity :)
Thanks for the kind words Candide! I’m glad the videos have been helpful! I recently finished Olympos and had a few issues with it but still enjoyed the duology overall. Lots of crazy sci-fi ideas. Happy reading!
@@WordsinTime Honestly, I thought about rereading the Illiad by Homer, before tackling Simmons again. It was for quite a while my favourite book around when I was 17/18 (in german we have a wonderful translation by Johann Heinrich Voss that captures the verse and the semantics exceptionally) - it is such an amazing action packed, super hero gore-show and once you get into the verse, it's the verse itself that's carrying the reading on it's own. But now I am going to watch some more of your reviews :)
I read the Hyperion cantos and loooved it! Blew me away. I’m halfway through ilium and hate it. It seems forced, trying too hard and overall stale. It’s way too out there for me.
I’m glad you loved the Hyperion Cantos! I liked the second half of Ilium more than the first half so it might be worth continuing, but the book just might not be for you. I continued with Olympos and liked aspects of it, but felt like the ending was a bit underwhelming.
I disagree about the character development. Daeman was a an unlikable spoiled brat at the beginning of the saga. He went on to challenge Caliban and face terrifying hurdles as great as any other character. Amazing development imo.
I'ts been like 15 years since I read this. I remember i liked this book a lot and simmons was one of the best sff authors.Then he went mainstream, what a waste of talent.
How cringey was that unnecesary comment you mention, from zero to Cixin Liu's self-insert whine about men being too feminine, at a certain time in Remembrance
Moderately interesting fact: Simmons dedicated this book to Wabash College. My old roommate went Wabash and when I sent the dedication to him he said that The Iliad was required reading there
Haha that’s cool!
I’ve yet to read any Dan Simmons. Hyperion is on my radar. But I absolutely love Ancient Greek/Roman mythology so this book may have to take precedence over Hyperion. Thanks for getting me excited to read this one!
It sounds like you might enjoy this one! Let me know your thoughts if you read it!
I fell in love with Hyperion. the Shrike. The Ousters.. The Consuls Tale.. mine as well get Fall of Hyperion too.
You will love Ilium and Olympos, guaranteed. Read it - or listen to it on audible, either way - you'll love it. It's such an epic and awesome story and I love how greek history is intermingled with sci fi.
As a recovering lit major, I feel like this is the book I need in my life.
Haha I’d love to get your perspective on it!
I listed this as my all-time favorite scifi book. Absolutely loved everything about this duology, the Shakespeare, the Illiad, the technology, it just worked for me so well and I still don't know how.
That’s awesome, I’m glad it worked so well for you! I just finished Olympos. Looking forward to talking about it!
Just finished this one this week and I tore through the last 300 pages at record pace thanks to your review. I had read Hyperion and "Fall of" years ago, but was on-the-fence for this one. Thanks for pushing me toward it again. It was very worth it! Olympos will be on-deck soon.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! There were a few aspects I didn’t like about Olympos but it has some really cool stuff in there as well!
Love Simmons stuff. Finally found time to enjoy Hyperion series earlier this year and it had such a powerful effect on me. I’m gonna look for this book in the shop next time I’m in, and thanks for the Peter F Hamilton suggestion!
Yes, I found the Hyperion Cantos to be stunning! And the Commonwealth Saga by Hamilton is epic!
@@WordsinTime Is the Iliad the same as Homer's Odessey?
@@ajaxslamgoody9736 It is also written by Homer, but it is not the same as the Odyssey.
Great video! Dan Simmons is one of my favorite authors. I've read Hyperion 3 times. Have you heard of the "12 Planets of the Intergalactic Map" series? Book 3 called "The Vandekirians" was just released. It's main plot is: "What happens when 12 civilizations from different planets meet for the very first time? Will their common origin unite them into a mighty Intergalactic Empire? Or will they destroy each other?" The world-building alone is so imaginative and creative to behold, and the character-driven and grand mythos of this universe the author has created is very engaging and mesmerizing.
Awesome Derek, I’m glad you love Hyperion as well! I haven’t heard of that series, but I’ll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation!
Thank you so much for actually reviewing the physical book. Few do. Earned my sub for that alone. No bookstores in my town and buying at Amazon blind is hit or miss and like you, I hate broken spines. About to order this bad boy.
Haha you’re welcome! I don’t always talk about the physical book, but I will if I think it has any noteworthy good or bad qualities. I hope you enjoy the book!
Sounds kinda cool. I'll keep it on the radar for next year. Thanks!
You’re welcome! Let me know your thoughts if you read it!
Great review, Jonathan! I think you nailed it as I pretty much felt the same about it. I have a friend who has a Masters in Classical Studies, so I've been able to talk to him a bit about the Greek myth parts and he's given me a little more insight. He tried to read the book many years ago but couldn't get into it. I was the same though, so after hearing me enthusiastically talk about it, he decided he's going to give it another shot. So, it should be interesting getting deeper into the mythology of the book with him after he reads it. I'd be interested in hearing what threads and descriptions were minor issues with you, though I know you can't do it here because spoilers and all. I had a few moments like that too, but some of them I re-considered, looking at them in a different light, and my feelings about them changed. Anyway, loved the book and so far, I'm enjoying Olympos too!
Awesome, I’m glad you enjoyed it too! It will be interesting to hear any insights on the mythology from your friend. Looking forward to discussing Olympos!
Excellent review Jonathan. I’ll definitely give this book a shot. I am a bit of a language nerd, so that will be fun too.
Haha awesome, hope you enjoy it! I’ll be interested to hear your perspective on it.
To me, Ilium & Olympos is/are one of my two favorite modern duologies in SF. (Along side V.Vinge's Fire Upon the Deep, with its added prequels/sequels.) All way better than Pandora's Star, IMHO. To explain the interrelationships between the three story lines in these two books would be really difficult, but I would say that I could identify/empathize with the primary characters in each. While I can hardly remember the individual characters in Pandora's star. Dan, if you are reading this, please tell us what happened to the Moravecs! Best single description I could use would be, "Fantastical" Sci-fi which spans the middle solar system.
Yes, despite only having 3 main narratives the duology was rather complex. I wish Olympos had focused more on the Moravecs!
i started this one with high hopes just as online video games hit my modem and was distracted from reading for a few years.
the back cover description sounded fantastic but one gets a lot of Huckleberry to wade through at first. i did recently enjoy Drood!
so there is that. Simmons can really hook you with big, sharp hooks.
There is a lot going on in this one, Simmons has some crazy ideas!
Wow! You were a bit higher than me on it - I gave it 3.5/5, although I am very interested in where the story goes in Olympos. We share one criticism - character development- but my other big one is that I felt that the ending of this didn’t really come together as well as I had hoped. Hopefully the second book will bring things together for me! This is definitely an extremely ambitious book!
Oh, and I’m with you: what’s with these barbarians that crease their spines?
Take care of your books and they’ll take care of you! I liked what each of the stories built to, and I didn’t mind the lack of character development too much simply because I was so engrossed in the story!
@@WordsinTime Do you have in space horror to recommend...I heard Hull Zero Three and Ship of Fools (English title was 'Unto Leviathan') were good and scary.
Ah shiiiiiit I got a shout out but never got a Channel MENTION WTF MAN???
Lmao jk, glad this ultimately satisfied! I'll heavily consider trying this duology out for myself at some point in time haha
Hope Olympus is a great ending based on the praise for this first half :D
Oh no haha 🤦♂️ I have linked your channel in the description and will give it a shout out in a future video! Looking forward to Olympos!
You inspired me to read this one sooner than I planned and glad I did. Loved pretty much everything about it. I was even more generous and gave it a 9.5!
Thanks 👍
That’s great to hear Dave, I’m glad you liked it! I think there’s a few weird aspects in Olympos but I think it hits some good high points as well. Hope you enjoy!
@@WordsinTime I finished Olympos too and went into it with low expectations due to some of the negative reviews and was definitely pleasantly surprised. The positives way exceed any of the perceived negatives. Not quite as good as Ilium but a very worthy sequel.
Did you know Simmons was considering a third novel? Which is maybe why he left a few things open. I think he's scrapped that idea though.
@@daveedmunds1109 Interesting! I hadn’t heard that, but it makes sense. I thought the storyline was mostly satisfying except for when it came to Setebos.
Thanks for your review! I am in the middle of Ilium right now and I was on the fence about stopping reading it for the first 200 pages, but I still kept going with it and the pacing has picked up similarly to the Hyperion Cantos. I am liking the book but it isn't as good as the Hyperion Cantos but I am enjoying the read. I do know that I will be reading Olympos because of the way Dan Simmons writes there will be no way I can wait to finish it.
You’re welcome Paul! I was also a bit mixed on it for the first 200 pages but ended up liking it a lot. I hope you do too!
@@WordsinTime Thanks I hope too as well. I notice his books are very slow and all over the place and he likes to build the story as he writes it. It all seems to make more sense the more you read.
This novel sounds cool, Jonathan. I plan to read it early 2023. Happy reading!
It’s pretty crazy! I hope you enjoy it!
Its been 12 years since I've read this duology, but I can still remember everything about it - the three distinct story lines, the characters, the usage of the many world interpretation and how they connected by the end - unbelievable. Even though not as gut-wrenching and mind-blowing as the Hyperion Cantos (nothing can beat that, not even Simmons himself) these books are absolutely a must read of sci-fi. Also, Dan Simmons is insanely knowledgeable - many of the themes he used, especially quantum mechanics are really well described and fits into the story flawlessly.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! It’s a crazy combination of ideas!
There are three main perspectives, but often you get to read from the point of view from multiple characters around them. (Specifically Ada in Daeman's chapters.) And I love the clarifications made through their inner thoughts within the book. I'm halfway through now and loving this book!
@@Byte446 I’m glad you’re enjoying it!
It's on my list, My first book from Simmons is sitting on my bookshelf; on the TBR section, it's "The Terror," I wanted to start on something like 'Hyperion," but as of late I've hit some mental burnout with heavier fantasy... I appreciate the video and thanks to you "Ilium' was added to my TBR.. a few years away but hey..
It’s super creative and ambitious! I had a few issues with Olympos but overall I enjoyed the duology!
If you haven't already done so, read Simmons' "Flashback" and "Summer Of Night". Absolutely outstanding, both, I believe.
Thanks for the video. I originally was interested in this book after I finished Hyperion (which I loved) and passed it up because the description did not resonate. However, after this video I have since started and really enjoyed it so far.
I do have a random question I am hoping someone can answer. I tried search wiki fandom but surprisingly no summary there. Why does Hockenberry think he only has one day to live before the Gods will kill him? I get he does some drastic things after his shenanigans with Helen, but what did he initially do? I must have missed it.
I’m glad you’re enjoying it! I thought Olympos had some weird things in it but overall I’m glad I read this duology!
In regard to your question, I don’t specifically remember him thinking he only had one day to live, but I remember him thinking that at any point he could get found out for being in possession of items he wasn’t supposed to have.
I think he pissed off Aphrodite or something, but have not been able to figure out what he did?
@@rylansmith4065 I think Aphrodite wants him to help her destroy Athena. So I think he is afraid of disobeying Aphrodite and is afraid of getting caught by Athena.
still my no.1 book. It has a special place in my heart. Coming from someone who doesnt read, this book flowed so well for me. I really struggled to put this book down.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Read this book in freshman year of highschool. I've been waiting for a film or tv adaptation... This book is amazing
It would require a large budget but it would be amazing to see on screen!
"Ilium" was like a super-long lecture from an amazingly entertaining professor with an incredible imagination and a wicked sense of humor. I would have loved to have been one of Simmons' Classical Lit students. The man understood how to take the Old Form of storytelling (the oral tradition: voice and memory, aided by song) and transmute it into the New Form; the written style we're all familiar with, then break it down so that we unmodified humans can understand it as the epic it really was. We have to remember that nearly ALL of the data we have on the Trojan War was NOT written down, not even by Homer, until MUCH later in the histories of the combined "Greek" city-states. (They didn't even call themselves "Greek" until the Romans absorbed their entire culture and history.)
We also have to keep in mind that the Iliad was SUNG until it was finally written down. Traditionally, the verses were accompanied by a four-string lyre but wood flutes and panpipes were often used. (Archeologists have even found musical notation written for it which might or night not have come from Euripedes.) Taken as a whole, it sounded like a somewhat repetitious folk song. (Imagine listening to Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell singing 15,693 lines of verse. Just shoot me now, with a really big gun...)
Somehow, Simmons managed to keep a lot of that musical feel intact. I got the sense that he was telling a series of interrelated folk tales, with a strange, internal rhythm which sounds really cool once you feel the beat.
Yes, this book and "Olympos" considered as a whole, is a towering achievement in Literature. It's a tour of Old Lit, Middle Ages Lit, and New Lit, with a message and a moral buried in almost every turn. The characters are so well-drawn because they're all forced to make choices--and some are good, some not so good, and some horrifying in the extreme. (Imagine for a moment that you are the AI/WorldNet character Prospero. We kind of think of Caliban being the chief Bad Guy, but WHO CREATED CALIBAN? Prospero and Circe, both of whom had very different reasons for doing so.
The book(s) is/are FILLED with flawed characters who learn and grow and become something much more than they were before; Daeman and Harman for example. Holy smoke, there's a couple of awesome character arcs! With his usual twisted, wicked humor, Simmons made the moravecs the ONLY creatures in the series that had an unshakeable sense of Right and Wrong, even if they were mostly machines with only bits of human DNA and certain organs like an organic heart and brain.
They were the REAL children of our best hopes and dreams, our best aspirations. That's why they were so likeable; they reflected what we WANTED to be and did a smashing good job of it. The leader of the Belt rockvecs, General Beh bin Adee was a hoot! In my mind, he sounds like a British General. It figures he'd like Kipling. ("I say! That's a cracking good poem!")
The moravecs are the Voices of Conscience here; the classic Greek Chorus. Hockenberry might be telling most of the story and the Old-Style humans may have been the ones who learned the most about being human but the moravecs are the people who keep the story on track and give us the Big Picture, notably that old crab Orphu of Io.
Simmons could write an entire series about the moravecs and I would be FASCINATED.
Thanks for all the detailed context! I’m glad you connected so much with this story!
I really liked Ilium, such an amazing book, great,GREAT sci fi, I do not know how Dan Simmons pulled that one off, kind of didn't with the sequel
I agree JJ! I thought Olympos had strong moments but it didn’t work as well overall.
"Language nerd's paradise"? Dude, I am SO there!
BUT... does it end on a cliffhanger? I don't mind ambiguous, but cliffhangers are a cheat for me, and leave me angry.
I've never read any Simmons before, but the Greek mythology angle grabs my attention (I'm a fan of Mary Renault and Madeline Miller-- if you're not familiar with either, check 'em out: Sir, it's Greek myths--they ARE a fantasy books!)
Thanks for the great work!
Haha I’m glad it sounds interesting!
To answer your question of whether it ends on a cliffhanger, I would say yes and no. It’s definitely not a complete story, you need to read Olympos as well to complete the story. However, Ilium does come to a natural breaking point and I didn’t find it to be a cheat of a cliffhanger.
There are some weird moments in Olympos and I thought it lost some steam in the final 100 pages, but overall I found the journey engaging.
Hyperion Cantos is sci fi masterpiece! But Ilium/Olympus is something else, levels above! Mind boggling and mind blowing! There are parts which made me almost choke from laughter! I mean, Hockenberry as protagonist, come on! In who would you transform yourself if you could, any person during the siege of Troy? Well Hockenberry made my day! 🤣🤣🤣
Haha it’s wild! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
As soon as you said “word nerd”, I rushed to Amazon and read the sample (I love amazon’s samples. In short story books you can usually read a whole story). Simmons begins with the exact words of the Iliad! Then riffs down until the story. He is up-to-date on his the facts about Troy so I’m eager to see what else he knows. I knew about this book but books about the gods or Ancient Greece at all are usually so dismal and uninformed, I can’t abide them. So, thanks for steering me.
This book duology is a bit all over the place haha but I think it will hit on some aspects that you might enjoy!
@@WordsinTime so far-20% in-the book is brilliant. He definitely knows his stuff; such stuff being the Iliad which he carefully follows; astronomy, including knowing that Io is the most energy packed body in the solar system; and Proust-though on that point we don’t float in the same boat. I love that i can think about Proust and the Iliad in one book. For those familiar with these sources, it’s a great trip!
@@theresahemminger1587 Homer, Proust, Shakespeare…he included so many layers, and I’m sure I only picked up a fraction of them!
Dan Simmons is the absolute best. Hyperion and The Iliad books are just next level. Few if any quite compare. There is a reason he’s famous….
That’s awesome to hear you enjoyed them as well Gerald! I’m looking forward to Olympos!
What if the chess game feel was intended as the gods in the classic movies of greek mythology pushed the figurines of the heroes and monsters on their gaming board. Something in the style of the Clash of the Titans?
Yes, I think that could have been the case!
I really loved these books.
@@paulthomassen5007 I’m glad you enjoyed them!
@@WordsinTime I'd love to hear your take on Stephen Donaldson, Katherine kurtz, and the Alvin maker series by orson Scott card.
@@paulthomassen5007 I haven’t read them but I’ve heard good things about The Gap Cycle by Donaldson.
New Dan Simmons... Done. Cantos was amazing!
I’m glad you loved the Hyperion Cantos as well! Ilium is a bit different but shares some of the same qualities. Hopefully I enjoy Olympos too!
@@WordsinTime I was 35 in 2019. I had a stroke that took words from me. I had read Hyperion before.
The Poets story resonated with me so strongly. Especially when my mom heard my first 'F' bomb. XD
"Yeah, I can still say it"! LMAO
@@Giganfan2k1 Wow, sorry to hear that happened, but I’m glad you were able to connect to the books! I hope you are doing well!
@@WordsinTime I am living my best life. I have gained more than I have lost.
I am still trying to learn how to remember what I have read / read books.
@@Giganfan2k1 I love the attitude! Best of luck to you, and thanks for being a part of the channel!
I don't think Dr. Chase covers anything but fantasy. I haven't heard him mention Simmons at all. The one SF exception I can think of is covering the Dune film.
If you want SF videos, check out Media Death Cult channel or Raf Blutaxt. Raf is actually running a series on Simmons currently, though it may turn out more critical than you want.
Thanks for the recommendations! I follow those channels as well! I know Philip Chase focuses on fantasy, but Ilium blends some fantasy and mythology in with the sci-fi, so I think it’s something he might potentially find interesting if we can convince him to read it haha
@@WordsinTime I'm actually worried about him a bit. He got pulled into reading Bakker, which may affect his personality or outlook. Hoping he doesn't go over to the dark side.
In your discussion, you mentioned that it felt like the characters were part of a game. That’s exactly what was going on in the Iliad. The human characters were being moved around the board by the Greek gods. So, if Simmons had you feeling that, then the story was clearly influenced by the Iliad.
Thanks Tom, I think Simmons did that successfully!
almost done with the second book, it has so much depth
Yes, so many crazy ideas! I’m not sure it quite sticks the landing, but it’s an incredible adventure.
Thank you so much for your reviews! (I based my reading on some of your recommendations and haven't been disappointed yet). I wish you get more publicity :)
Thanks for the kind words Candide! I’m glad the videos have been helpful! I recently finished Olympos and had a few issues with it but still enjoyed the duology overall. Lots of crazy sci-fi ideas. Happy reading!
@@WordsinTime Honestly, I thought about rereading the Illiad by Homer, before tackling Simmons again. It was for quite a while my favourite book around when I was 17/18 (in german we have a wonderful translation by Johann Heinrich Voss that captures the verse and the semantics exceptionally) - it is such an amazing action packed, super hero gore-show and once you get into the verse, it's the verse itself that's carrying the reading on it's own. But now I am going to watch some more of your reviews :)
@@candide6005 That’s awesome, I think as a reader of The Iliad there will be lots for you to enjoy in Ilium. I’d love to hear your perspective on it!
where should I start sci-fi??
I have a video with 10 recommendations to get you started with sci-fi! ua-cam.com/video/LB4NZCS5H9I/v-deo.html
I started with Foundation series. Not bad choice.
I try not to break the spine of my books and usually fail. Unless I'm borrowing the book, then I treat it the same way I treat my infant son.
Haha I respect it!
Ambitious sci-fi seems a bit too much for me 😅 Hope book 2 sticks the landing!
Haha if you hated Hyperion, this might not work for you either.
@@WordsinTime Hate is a strong word 😅 It didn't make my rage list of the year
@@CD287- Haha that’s a win!
Yes, it's a great read (as is Olympos) but for me, the four Hyperion Cantos were far better.
@@heartaloft I preferred Hyperion but both are worth reading.
i feel nabokov's ada needs a mention in this video.
Good catch!
More ambitious than The Three Body Problem? Higher stakes than Death's End (the third book in that trilogy)?
That was one I forgot to mention at the end as the Remembrance of Earth’s Past trilogy is one of my all-time favourites. The ideas are insane!
@@WordsinTime completely agree. I was listening to it in my car and I almost ran off the road 😅
@@JohnCamacho Haha there were a couple of moments in each book that left me shook!
I read the Hyperion cantos and loooved it! Blew me away.
I’m halfway through ilium and hate it. It seems forced, trying too hard and overall stale. It’s way too out there for me.
I’m glad you loved the Hyperion Cantos! I liked the second half of Ilium more than the first half so it might be worth continuing, but the book just might not be for you. I continued with Olympos and liked aspects of it, but felt like the ending was a bit underwhelming.
I disagree about the character development. Daeman was a an unlikable spoiled brat at the beginning of the saga. He went on to challenge Caliban and face terrifying hurdles as great as any other character. Amazing development imo.
I would agree with this!
Felt the book was a big idea and poor execution, hope Olympos pulls it together.
I have a feeling Olympos goes in a bit of a different direction. I’ll find out!
@@WordsinTime I will be there with ya
@@jdracing551 Nice, I’ll let you know when I start!
I'ts been like 15 years since I read this. I remember i liked this book a lot and simmons was one of the best sff authors.Then he went mainstream, what a waste of talent.
I’m only interested in his sci-fi books, but I’ve enjoyed the Hyperion Cantos and Ilium. I’ll be reading Olympos soon!
😅I read Illium several years ago. I don't understand the Dan Simmons' hype.
His books feel like poorly written fever dreams.
They are a bit all over the place haha
One of the best scifi books I ever read
That’s awesome, I’m glad you enjoyed it too! Have you read Olympos?
@@WordsinTime I read them back to back.Great also. Its 15 years ago though.
@@olesrensen1863 Nice! Hopefully I enjoy Olympus too!
The ham-handed attempts at "comedy" throughout the book were absolutely awful. It gets worse in Olympos.
I didn’t think the book was particularly funny, except the Moravecs were occasionally amusing, and I would agree that Olympos was a step down.
How cringey was that unnecesary comment you mention, from zero to Cixin Liu's self-insert whine about men being too feminine, at a certain time in Remembrance
Haha I don’t know. I guess it’s subjective. Not bad enough to ruin the book, fortunately.