Your rig reminds me of the Sri Lanka style, except that uses a Y set up, with a mast and a spirit (or two masts whatever you want to call it). But apparently with that rig one side of the sail is always the leading edge and they pass the lines between the spars, or something like that. Yours looks much easier to shunt!
Zack, some serious innovation here... Cool vid back and forth in time... Your Pigeon rig is interesting engineering, shunting seems very simple. I like the idea behind it, truly enjoyed your thesis about balance differences in Atlantic Proas, vs Pacific Proas, very educating. I never thought about the differences between the two concepts. I always put off Atlantic Proas since they are high load vessels, they lean onto their amas and stress their akas... Though they are better balanced, u win some, u loose some, I guess.... Kool stuff bro, you're a Force to recognize in the world of shunting. Keep Shunting Brah, Balkan Shipyards.
I hope to put my proa in the water this summer. It will have a schooner rig with 2 square battened lugsails. At the moment my plan is to put 2 kickup rudders on the leeward side in cassettes, mounted on the crossbeams.
Great way to learn things 👍👍 is there any reason why you would make one ama and create a disbalance in course keeping instead of make two equal hulls like a catamaran or restore balance by making two amas like a trimaran ? Why would anyone hamper with the logical balance ?? Where is the advantage of making only one ama ?
Only advantage I could see would be less weight, and maybe half the width of a trimaran. I found it easy to transport with only one ama. That would all depend on the size of the boat, boat ramp, and waterway. I like how the Atlantic proa (sali to windward side, lone ama lee side) feels on the water, it has a certain "bounce" that fascinates me. The Proa has a simplicity in the 2 hulls as when a try flies a hull it just hangs there until u make the tack. The complication is the "shunt", but it has variations. I'll be messing around with this more in the future hopefully.
Hard to tell from the Marvel studio-style quick cuts, but the sketch at 11:49 looks like the flat side of the hulls are oriented opposite to how they would be on a Pacific proa, on which they would be to the lee, and it looks like this is how the boat wanted to force itself regardless of the sail's position. If I am right about that, then could that be a contributing factor to how it wants to be an Atlantic proa?
Both hulls are symmetrical. In the end of the video I paired the large symmetrical hull with an asymmetrical small hull, intended as the leeward hull. In that case it would still be Atlantic as the mast would still sit on the windward hull. As the bigger hull is windward that would also be a Harry Proa. So I guess that would make that design an "Atlantic Harry". But back to 11:29 in the vid... Only through building and trying to sail the Proa did I find out how much weather helm they have (especially down wind). It's innate in their design as they have a leeward steering oar and sail positioned almost on the very front of the leeward large hull (which reduces weather helm). I found in going Atlantic style (mast on windward hull Ama leeward) I could move the mast aft. Im still thinking about these proa boats and hope to return to it soon as working a regular job has been using up my all my free time lately. I just cleaned out the garage so that's a step in the right direction.
Thanks for your reply! I am thinking about a weekender with shallow draught but narrow enough for a decent hull speed to use a pedal propeller drive as an auxiliary for river sailing (I have access to but am not on the Great Lakes) The stability of a beachable multi-hull seems like the way to go, so the choices boil down to catamaran, Atlantic or Pacific proas since it turns out out I hate tents. I've seen debates for and against the Harry method of loading the ama to prevent it flying. Your experimentation, which could not have been easy or cheap, is very insightful for those of us who cannot afford the time or resources for the trials you do. Respect. @@zackariasthepirate
@@actual_nonsense Welcome to the club. Im interested to see what you settle on. The day camp Proa has potential. Not being in open ocean allows for a little more wiggle room design wise. Gear and the building materials can add weight fast. Less is more with the proa but can be changed to ones liking I think.
@@zackariasthepirateI live on the Missouri River, in Central montana. Where the wind is good but the waterways are relatively narrow ~1000 ft (300m). I plan to do much of my sailing on this river. Which means easy shunting is critical. Your trials are very interesting and have me contemplating the benefits of a pigeon rig
@@keernhaslem1845 The potential for a quick shunt was confirmed. My new Anole build will decide up-wind ability. The first rig worked, but I was in a tidal current area where up-wind sailing couldn't be tested due to strong currents. I hope to test the Anole in a waterway without the tidal variable. Also the Asymmetrical hull on the Anole will be more effective for the up-wind sailing test. Happy that someone can build on the tests that I did.
I understand what you wanted to do, I believe you should already know, but this type of sail is not suitable for this vessel, and this leads to a lower performance. I liked the idea of the rudders. I look forward to seeing new videos of PROA's performance in stronger wind conditions.
Thanks for the comment.. Yes fully experimental and it may not be ideal. I had the idea and the quick shunt was great, as I am in really narrow waterways right now. Also I do believe that it can be reefed, which traditional proa sails usually can't. There is room for improvement, and I think I will try a few other set-ups with this same sail rig. ZPLAA
I hope to put my proa in the water this summer. It will have a schooner rig with 2 square battened lugsails. At the moment my plan is to put 2 kickup rudders on the leeward side in cassettes, mounted on the crossbeams.
Taz, That sounds like a new thing to see. Looking forward to it! The reality test is what will tell you how it all works. Mine was very similar to the model. All went well. Be safe and enjoy. Thanks for watching the video. ZPLAA
Your rig reminds me of the Sri Lanka style, except that uses a Y set up, with a mast and a spirit (or two masts whatever you want to call it). But apparently with that rig one side of the sail is always the leading edge and they pass the lines between the spars, or something like that. Yours looks much easier to shunt!
Zack, some serious innovation here... Cool vid back and forth in time... Your Pigeon rig is interesting engineering, shunting seems very simple. I like the idea behind it, truly enjoyed your thesis about balance differences in Atlantic Proas, vs Pacific Proas, very educating. I never thought about the differences between the two concepts. I always put off Atlantic Proas since they are high load vessels, they lean onto their amas and stress their akas... Though they are better balanced, u win some, u loose some, I guess....
Kool stuff bro, you're a Force to recognize in the world of shunting. Keep Shunting Brah, Balkan Shipyards.
Thanks BSY. Always moving forward! Havaya 24 looking great!
I hope to put my proa in the water this summer. It will have a schooner rig with 2 square battened lugsails. At the moment my plan is to put 2 kickup rudders on the leeward side in cassettes, mounted on the crossbeams.
I am also looking forward to sailing my wa’apa this summer. For its first full season 🎉
Cool mane 😎
Nice stuff.
What a great channel we love art . we be following you.
Super cool. Thanks for the compliment. Always enjoy overlap of interests!
Well done.
The boat responded well. I would make a few more adjustments to it, but it works great set up that way. ZPLAA
@@zackariasthepirate Yes, you are improving a prototype, hits and misses are part of the process. I want to start my project next year.
Great way to learn things 👍👍 is there any reason why you would make one ama and create a disbalance in course keeping instead of make two equal hulls like a catamaran or restore balance by making two amas like a trimaran ? Why would anyone hamper with the logical balance ?? Where is the advantage of making only one ama ?
Only advantage I could see would be less weight, and maybe half the width of a trimaran. I found it easy to transport with only one ama. That would all depend on the size of the boat, boat ramp, and waterway. I like how the Atlantic proa (sali to windward side, lone ama lee side) feels on the water, it has a certain "bounce" that fascinates me. The Proa has a simplicity in the 2 hulls as when a try flies a hull it just hangs there until u make the tack. The complication is the "shunt", but it has variations. I'll be messing around with this more in the future hopefully.
Hard to tell from the Marvel studio-style quick cuts, but the sketch at 11:49 looks like the flat side of the hulls are oriented opposite to how they would be on a Pacific proa, on which they would be to the lee, and it looks like this is how the boat wanted to force itself regardless of the sail's position. If I am right about that, then could that be a contributing factor to how it wants to be an Atlantic proa?
Both hulls are symmetrical. In the end of the video I paired the large symmetrical hull with an asymmetrical small hull, intended as the leeward hull. In that case it would still be Atlantic as the mast would still sit on the windward hull. As the bigger hull is windward that would also be a Harry Proa. So I guess that would make that design an "Atlantic Harry". But back to 11:29 in the vid... Only through building and trying to sail the Proa did I find out how much weather helm they have (especially down wind). It's innate in their design as they have a leeward steering oar and sail positioned almost on the very front of the leeward large hull (which reduces weather helm). I found in going Atlantic style (mast on windward hull Ama leeward) I could move the mast aft. Im still thinking about these proa boats and hope to return to it soon as working a regular job has been using up my all my free time lately. I just cleaned out the garage so that's a step in the right direction.
Thanks for your reply! I am thinking about a weekender with shallow draught but narrow enough for a decent hull speed to use a pedal propeller drive as an auxiliary for river sailing (I have access to but am not on the Great Lakes) The stability of a beachable multi-hull seems like the way to go, so the choices boil down to catamaran, Atlantic or Pacific proas since it turns out out I hate tents. I've seen debates for and against the Harry method of loading the ama to prevent it flying. Your experimentation, which could not have been easy or cheap, is very insightful for those of us who cannot afford the time or resources for the trials you do. Respect. @@zackariasthepirate
@@actual_nonsense Welcome to the club. Im interested to see what you settle on. The day camp Proa has potential. Not being in open ocean allows for a little more wiggle room design wise. Gear and the building materials can add weight fast. Less is more with the proa but can be changed to ones liking I think.
@@zackariasthepirateI live on the Missouri River, in Central montana. Where the wind is good but the waterways are relatively narrow ~1000 ft (300m). I plan to do much of my sailing on this river. Which means easy shunting is critical. Your trials are very interesting and have me contemplating the benefits of a pigeon rig
@@keernhaslem1845 The potential for a quick shunt was confirmed. My new Anole build will decide up-wind ability. The first rig worked, but I was in a tidal current area where up-wind sailing couldn't be tested due to strong currents. I hope to test the Anole in a waterway without the tidal variable. Also the Asymmetrical hull on the Anole will be more effective for the up-wind sailing test. Happy that someone can build on the tests that I did.
I understand what you wanted to do, I believe you should already know, but this type of sail is not suitable for this vessel, and this leads to a lower performance. I liked the idea of the rudders. I look forward to seeing new videos of PROA's performance in stronger wind conditions.
Thanks for the comment.. Yes fully experimental and it may not be ideal. I had the idea and the quick shunt was great, as I am in really narrow waterways right now. Also I do believe that it can be reefed, which traditional proa sails usually can't. There is room for improvement, and I think I will try a few other set-ups with this same sail rig. ZPLAA
I hope to put my proa in the water this summer. It will have a schooner rig with 2 square battened lugsails. At the moment my plan is to put 2 kickup rudders on the leeward side in cassettes, mounted on the crossbeams.
Taz, That sounds like a new thing to see. Looking forward to it! The reality test is what will tell you how it all works. Mine was very similar to the model. All went well. Be safe and enjoy. Thanks for watching the video. ZPLAA
Did you ever get to splash your proa? How did the rudders work out?
@@robchynoweth I did, I used oars as rudders. There was not much wind, though. There is a video on my channel.
@@robchynoweth Yes, I used oars as rudders. There was not much wind. There is a video on my channel.