It's best to use the packaging the Flat Top comes in when it's new or call us and we can tell you exactly how we package it if you need to get more packaging yourself. 800-707-2525
Regardless of what you think you know or don't there is a big difference in felt torque steer. The vittorazi just doesn't have very good counter balance for it and units designed to prevent felt torque only eliminate weight shift when doing it which is much worse. Plus they throw safety out the window making uncertified high hook in points and have seating at the bottom eliminating all crumple zone. There are hundreds of details to the Flat Top that make it the only unit competent pilots fly.
you're talking bullshit. Torque is a direct effect of power. torque liturally means distance times force. so if your motor can give more force, than it will have way more torque at the same 'distance'. Its just a mather of how balanced the frame is.
How close the center mass of the engine is in relation to the center of the prop makes a big difference in felt torque steer. Why argue with something so simple and obvious? You make no sense trying to talk crap about something so simple and easy to understand.
@@DellSchanze simple maths tell me that the torque of a monster 185 is 22,82 Nm. This goes through a reduction of 1/2.68. so the output torque is 61,68 Nm. Let's say that the center of mass from the engine is 5 cm from the center of rotation (which feels like a lot..) the engine weights 14,3 kg. So, that gives a total of 7,15 Nm of torque to the opposite of the engine torque. Both you and I can see that this is only a little bit more than 10 % of the given torque from the engine. So yes.. weight placement helps... But not as much as you claim. So please. Let the engineering over to the real engineers. Btw, if you want your engine to completely remove the torque under power, than the center of mass needs to be at 43 cm from the center of thrusts. Well.. now image a stronger engine..
@@DellSchanze Actually no..... I think you are confused. If the motor is mounted centrally, swinging the same prop, a more powerful engine that can accelerate the same mass faster will torque more if accelerated at the same rate. The RECIPROCATING components of the engine do not add to torque steer as you also imply. If you are talking about induced torque onto the frame, and hence the risers causing the torque steer, then I think you are probably referring to the prop axis being mounted non centrally relative to the risers , which would reduce induced torque steer, but has nothing to with the engine being more or less powerful in the way you think it does. You are confusing other design aspects that are more related to the frame and the engines mounting than the engine itself.
@@pizzamandellaxx6979 Math is simple when you have all the variables which you don't. Plus to ignore the best in the world who has actually flown them back to back and knows first hand is foolish. Especially to go as far as talking trash and trying to pretend your knowing nothing from not having all the variables somehow makes you more knowledgeable thank the one who knows from first hand personal experience. There is a reason the engineer works for the CEO not the other way around. You are fired as you show clearly your complete lack of wisdom in using available experience to learn about variables before you try to pretend you know more than one who has actually done it.
@@ArionRaine I'm not confused at all as I actually fly and test them. It's silly how those who haven't actually tested them back to back then tries to pretend their knowing nothing from not having all the variables and not having any data or testing experience somehow trumps those who have actually done it. The less powerful Vittorazi has a ton more felt torque steer than the powerful Minari and the Atom 80 which far less power than the Vittorazi 185 has over double the torque steer of the 185. The 120 that is even less powerful has even more torque steer yet. So it's really foolish and shows a lack of intelligence to pretend to know more than one who has actually done it wen you have only theory that isn't even based on having all the variables. You are not a wizard either to which I am way beyond that in reality but again use that as a screen name. You really need to listen to experts before you speak.
I set the world distance record on a 2 stroke Flat Top at 280 miles on just 3.5 gallons. There are 4 strokes but they suck comparably as you have to carry the weight on your back.
You obviously haven't flown them both. We had a bunch of people fly them back to back and every single person said the 200R was better. That's just flying it and not even counting trying to get parts or warranty for them. There are piles of years of experience on top of it just being better for it's characteristics. So instead of making an emotional response you should actually try the Flat Top 200R and see for yourself. How would it hurt you to just be honest and see the real difference?
oh my, it has been a while. Did you broke up with your wife? I adore your family 13 years ago and your nice home in Utah where you flew off your backyard.
It's false and foolish ignorance. While 200cc is going to take a tiny bit more pull than a 185 the fact is the Flat Top primarily uses the Minari without a clutch so you have the inertia of the prop acting as a flywheel that helps keep it going once turned. The vittorazi doesn't have this so you have to jerk it that much further and harder to keep the engine turning long enough for it to start. All of this is kind of a worthless conversation of ignorance though as the reality is: who gives a crap? They are both easy enough to start so it doesn't matter. What does matter BIG TIME is that the Minari has about 60% LESS felt torque because of the better engine design plus it has MORE power being a 200cc and it has much faster engine response AND it is much more reliable. The vittorazi is a pain with all sorts of funky weird issues like spark plugs popping out of the head and electrical issues that even mechanics have a hard time figuring out with a ton of other issues. The Minari doesn't have ANY of those issues. We ALL flew them back to back to back when doing the testing and 100% of us hands down chose the Minari as the much better motor. For exactly the same weight you get more power, less torque steer, much faster engine response and much better reliability with fewer issues. We literally haven't had diddly dang dong for issues with the Minari. Other than exausts cracking which is a failure rate on ALL engines just like the vittorazi you just don't have any other issues on the Minari like you do the vittorazi. So understand the foolishness of saying "EVERYONE SAYS" instead of listening to an actual expert who has massive expedrience and can explain in exacting details what the difference is and this is only a small part. Keep in mind you won't have crap for warranty with a vittorazi because they totally screwed their supply chain. So when you have a $785 exhaust crack on a vittorazi YOU will be paying for it unless you want to wait months jumping through hoops. With a Minari if you have a problem you are immediately sent a new part. So talking about which is harder to start is complete and total absurdity that completely ignores the real facts that actually make up the reason that the best paramotor in the world is using Minari now as standard and not the vittorazi. I hate flying vittorazis now. The Minari just totally spoils you. Sooo much nicer. Plus you can get it without a clutch which you just can't with a vittorazi and that is a huge factor. You have the slightest issues with the starter on a vittorazi and you are grounded. Plus you have more weight and more issues by adding complexity of the clutch. I could write a book on the difference. Never ever listen to "EVERYONE SAYING" instead of real actual experts. :)
The facts are simple as anyone can verify them. If they were not accurate there would be many who have flown both trying to refute the facts I've shared. Hmm zero have tried to refute the facts as anyone that has flown both knows what I'm talking about. You who knows nothing just has to talk trash in ignorance though huh?
Mmm that girl! So much fun aye Dell. I had to watch the opening of the video a few times before I took in your words. Of course 🤣
Yea I adore my girlfriend. She is really wonderful and sweet.
You talk about putting a paramotor on a plane. What recommendations do you have on a case to transport it safely as a checked luggage
It's best to use the packaging the Flat Top comes in when it's new or call us and we can tell you exactly how we package it if you need to get more packaging yourself. 800-707-2525
But tucker recommends vitorazi, and he’s the number 1 paramotor UA-camr
Well now you know he is not #1 and doesn't actually know what he is talking about.
@@DellSchanze what about the purchase price comparison, u missed dat part?
Who makes d menary engine n can u buy it separately?
How much does it cost?
N who's dat girl 😍
That's funny 🤣🤣
How much did the walk through cost ya there at the video openening????... . We ALL know u ain't pulling that bro!
Are you talking about my fiancé in a very not cool way or am I missing what you are saying?
Do you accept trade in discounts if I want to swap my 185 for the new 200 for my flat top?
For sure. Give us a call. 800 707 2525
Comparison video on engines would be good to see..thx dell
I have tons of other video showing the differences but this one just explains it in more details so people can understand.
I’ve never felt my vittorazzi torque at all. Not once. Feels so smooth
Regardless of what you think you know or don't there is a big difference in felt torque steer. The vittorazi just doesn't have very good counter balance for it and units designed to prevent felt torque only eliminate weight shift when doing it which is much worse. Plus they throw safety out the window making uncertified high hook in points and have seating at the bottom eliminating all crumple zone. There are hundreds of details to the Flat Top that make it the only unit competent pilots fly.
you're talking bullshit. Torque is a direct effect of power. torque liturally means distance times force. so if your motor can give more force, than it will have way more torque at the same 'distance'. Its just a mather of how balanced the frame is.
How close the center mass of the engine is in relation to the center of the prop makes a big difference in felt torque steer. Why argue with something so simple and obvious? You make no sense trying to talk crap about something so simple and easy to understand.
@@DellSchanze simple maths tell me that the torque of a monster 185 is 22,82 Nm. This goes through a reduction of 1/2.68. so the output torque is 61,68 Nm. Let's say that the center of mass from the engine is 5 cm from the center of rotation (which feels like a lot..) the engine weights 14,3 kg. So, that gives a total of 7,15 Nm of torque to the opposite of the engine torque. Both you and I can see that this is only a little bit more than 10 % of the given torque from the engine. So yes.. weight placement helps... But not as much as you claim. So please. Let the engineering over to the real engineers. Btw, if you want your engine to completely remove the torque under power, than the center of mass needs to be at 43 cm from the center of thrusts. Well.. now image a stronger engine..
@@DellSchanze Actually no..... I think you are confused. If the motor is mounted centrally, swinging the same prop, a more powerful engine that can accelerate the same mass faster will torque more if accelerated at the same rate. The RECIPROCATING components of the engine do not add to torque steer as you also imply. If you are talking about induced torque onto the frame, and hence the risers causing the torque steer, then I think you are probably referring to the prop axis being mounted non centrally relative to the risers , which would reduce induced torque steer, but has nothing to with the engine being more or less powerful in the way you think it does. You are confusing other design aspects that are more related to the frame and the engines mounting than the engine itself.
@@pizzamandellaxx6979 Math is simple when you have all the variables which you don't. Plus to ignore the best in the world who has actually flown them back to back and knows first hand is foolish. Especially to go as far as talking trash and trying to pretend your knowing nothing from not having all the variables somehow makes you more knowledgeable thank the one who knows from first hand personal experience. There is a reason the engineer works for the CEO not the other way around. You are fired as you show clearly your complete lack of wisdom in using available experience to learn about variables before you try to pretend you know more than one who has actually done it.
@@ArionRaine I'm not confused at all as I actually fly and test them. It's silly how those who haven't actually tested them back to back then tries to pretend their knowing nothing from not having all the variables and not having any data or testing experience somehow trumps those who have actually done it. The less powerful Vittorazi has a ton more felt torque steer than the powerful Minari and the Atom 80 which far less power than the Vittorazi 185 has over double the torque steer of the 185. The 120 that is even less powerful has even more torque steer yet. So it's really foolish and shows a lack of intelligence to pretend to know more than one who has actually done it wen you have only theory that isn't even based on having all the variables. You are not a wizard either to which I am way beyond that in reality but again use that as a screen name. You really need to listen to experts before you speak.
She sure is beautiful, does she fly?
Not yet but hopefully in the future.
Bring back your trophy girlfriend .
Lol she is soooo beautiful huh?!
No one makes a four stroke yet?? Give up a little power but much better fuel economy.
I set the world distance record on a 2 stroke Flat Top at 280 miles on just 3.5 gallons. There are 4 strokes but they suck comparably as you have to carry the weight on your back.
First
Na Moster 185 all the way. Who you kidding! Lmao
You obviously haven't flown them both. We had a bunch of people fly them back to back and every single person said the 200R was better. That's just flying it and not even counting trying to get parts or warranty for them. There are piles of years of experience on top of it just being better for it's characteristics. So instead of making an emotional response you should actually try the Flat Top 200R and see for yourself. How would it hurt you to just be honest and see the real difference?
oh my, it has been a while. Did you broke up with your wife? I adore your family 13 years ago and your nice home in Utah where you flew off your backyard.
She divorced me and is already remarried. So I'm enjoying my freedom and my absolutely beautiful girlfriend.
Everyone I talk to say the Minari is hard to start compared to the vitorazzi.
It's false and foolish ignorance. While 200cc is going to take a tiny bit more pull than a 185 the fact is the Flat Top primarily uses the Minari without a clutch so you have the inertia of the prop acting as a flywheel that helps keep it going once turned. The vittorazi doesn't have this so you have to jerk it that much further and harder to keep the engine turning long enough for it to start.
All of this is kind of a worthless conversation of ignorance though as the reality is: who gives a crap? They are both easy enough to start so it doesn't matter. What does matter BIG TIME is that the Minari has about 60% LESS felt torque because of the better engine design plus it has MORE power being a 200cc and it has much faster engine response AND it is much more reliable. The vittorazi is a pain with all sorts of funky weird issues like spark plugs popping out of the head and electrical issues that even mechanics have a hard time figuring out with a ton of other issues. The Minari doesn't have ANY of those issues. We ALL flew them back to back to back when doing the testing and 100% of us hands down chose the Minari as the much better motor. For exactly the same weight you get more power, less torque steer, much faster engine response and much better reliability with fewer issues. We literally haven't had diddly dang dong for issues with the Minari. Other than exausts cracking which is a failure rate on ALL engines just like the vittorazi you just don't have any other issues on the Minari like you do the vittorazi.
So understand the foolishness of saying "EVERYONE SAYS" instead of listening to an actual expert who has massive expedrience and can explain in exacting details what the difference is and this is only a small part. Keep in mind you won't have crap for warranty with a vittorazi because they totally screwed their supply chain. So when you have a $785 exhaust crack on a vittorazi YOU will be paying for it unless you want to wait months jumping through hoops. With a Minari if you have a problem you are immediately sent a new part. So talking about which is harder to start is complete and total absurdity that completely ignores the real facts that actually make up the reason that the best paramotor in the world is using Minari now as standard and not the vittorazi. I hate flying vittorazis now. The Minari just totally spoils you. Sooo much nicer. Plus you can get it without a clutch which you just can't with a vittorazi and that is a huge factor. You have the slightest issues with the starter on a vittorazi and you are grounded. Plus you have more weight and more issues by adding complexity of the clutch. I could write a book on the difference. Never ever listen to "EVERYONE SAYING" instead of real actual experts. :)
Who’s your new girlfriend???
Ah that's Rhea. She is awesome. Can't wait to set some world records with her as she is only 79 lbs. Such a sweetie.
Your entire video seems to be speculative!
The facts are simple as anyone can verify them. If they were not accurate there would be many who have flown both trying to refute the facts I've shared. Hmm zero have tried to refute the facts as anyone that has flown both knows what I'm talking about. You who knows nothing just has to talk trash in ignorance though huh?