Criminally Underrated Movies episode 5 - THE BLACK HOLE (1979)
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Detailed study of one of the most misunderstood sci-fi movies of all time ... Disney's sci-fi epic The Black Hole (1979). Includes a response to Neil Degrasse Tyson's comments that the film is supposedly the most scientifically inaccurate ever made. This video written, edited and narrated by Rob Ager.
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Thanks Rob!
Thanks Rob! Hey, could you do a Criminally Underrated Movie episode for Jacob's Ladder?
Wow I've never seen that one@@Otaku155.
That'd be great if Rob did and I could watch it and then watch Jacob's Ladder the first time with knowledge of what to pay attention to / more focus. Great suggestion Otaku!
The ending of Reinhardt eternally trapped in Maximilian in the flames of hell scared the crap out of me as a five year old. Disney went dark on this one.
My look at it is a monkey's paw wishgranting for Reinhardt- life everlasting, but in a shell of his creation
I had nightmares about Max attacking me with his blender attachments for years. Saw this when I was 9. My first thought was with this movie, what the hell kind of propulsion would get them to a black hole? Enjoyed the heck & was my favorite Disney movie for a long time.
It was a BS ending though
@@misterx3188 they left it for you to decide what happens to the crew
Yes for me Maximilian was very intimidating from the start, tall, red, never speaks! I remembered him more than any other character. Reminds me somewhat of the James Bond character Jaws - he freaked me out as a kid too for similar reasons.
_Alien,_ _Star Trek: TMP,_ _The Black Hole_ - 1979 was the year of the majestic, gothic space horror film. Each, a masterpiece in it's own way.
Fantastic observation thanks.
Well Stated Cap!
ABSOLUTELY!!! GREAT CALL, Captain!!! You've listed 3 of my favourite films of all time, man!
Movies used to be so damn good and worthy of going to the theater.
Only one masterpiece in that list.
I respect that you refer to Episode IV A New Hope as STAR WARS - a stand alone movie.
The end scene of seeing Rhinehart and Maximilian combined into one is hell of his own making
from a real mad artist, fcking love it
@@gavinclark6891Doesn't Rinehart have " the traits " of Stockton Rush ?
Greetings Tom Belgium.
My parent took me to the drive-in to see this. I've never forgotten how cool that was, watching The Black Hole under the real night sky!
Saw this at the theatre too when I was 5 years old and the ending still freaks me out
I was also taken to the drive and to see this when I was very young and I had a very similar experience I just vaguely remember being kind of creepy
Some kids have all the fun... 😥
I havent' seen it myself, but seeing that someone who copied by UA-cam Name is recommending it, and so is rob Ager, then I guess I must watch it.
Wow! 😃
I don't care what anyone says, for me, the death scene with B.o.B. is one of the best in it's time. Roddy McDowall and Slim Pickens, their voice acting in that scene transcended the limits of their robot depictions. And really even the eye movements of the robots was quite well done. It was a quite touching, and always will be.
And moment when VINCent looks back at him….damn…
It's a great scene but kinda weird that the robots are the emotional heart of this film.
The eyes are painted with buttons for pupils. I couldn't get past that.
I can vouch for the emotional impact of this movie since I was 9 when I viewed it in the theatre. Overall, my memory is that this movie was heavy and dark with only the good gourmet robots providing any respite. Maximillian was more evil and intimidating than Darth Vader in my boyhood mind and I can still feel my horror when the gold mask was removed from one of the Dr. Rhinehardt's crew. Seeing Luke's aunt and uncle fried by the Empire didn't phase me two years earlier, but the look on that crewman's face still haunts me. Should have been Pg-13, but I don't think they had that rating back then. Thanks for the memories.
Same age as me then, good stuff as it was made for the theatre and would loose a bit of magic at home.
They didn’t have PG-13 until The Second Indiana Jones movie
I love this movie. I saw it in the theater when I was very young. My dad took me. And after the show, he bought me the t-shirt (yes, back then, theaters would sometimes sell film merch, too!), and when I begged and begged for him to take me back to see it the VERY NEXT DAY, he caved and did it. Since then, this film has stuck in my brain, and even now, many, many years later, I'll revisit it from time to time with a full watch. And I still love it today just as much as I did when I was a kid.
I saw this in the theater when I was 8 years old. The opening title sequence was very effective in the dark theater and big screen, giving a very strong sense that the audience was floating over the grid. The shot of the gigantic fireball elicited gasps from many in the audience. Both the grid sequence and the fireball left lasting impressions on me.
This movie (1979) was based on Forbidden Planet (1956), not Star Wars (1977).
Also, the scene when the ship is totally black but then lights up is awesome.
With you on that one, Joe. That opening sequence was awesome.
@@bigneiltoo Holy crap, Kirk, that part was huge.
Love this movie! As a kid I found Maximillian more menacing than Darth Vader.
yes
Good… Good…
Same here.
he is!
Yeah, being silent an non-human(?) was very scary.
I saw this movie in the theater along with Star Trek: The Motion Picture on the same night. I was nine years old at the time. A very happy memory.
me too I was six - and Moonraker also
I was 8! I loved it
I was 11, saw it on New Year's Eve 1980. Also a great memory.
Thank you for this. I get tired of people complaining about the scientific feasibility of movies. It's easy to find things that aren't accurate in movies. If they want real life, they shouldn't watch TV or movies. They are, as you said, meant to entertain. Which they do when people just watch instead of nitpicking
My theory of the ending is Reinhardt is cursed to spend eternity in hell trapped within Maximilian's robotic frame. This is Reinhardt's personal punishment in hell. The robed skeletal figures are a representation of Reinhardt's crew that he now commands from the mountaintop. Not the souls of the actual crew but a representation in hell. It's a scene from Dante's inferno which they referenced to earlier in the film. At the bottom of the mountain is the burning remains of the USS Cygnus.
Reinhardt ate from the same tree Adam and Eve did...
Maximillian Schell is imprisoned in Maximillian’s Shell…. Whoa!!!
@@allthingsnerd.4484 Word.
This movie really is like "Dante's Inferno" in space. The parallels are everywhere. As I got older, it was just something else to admire about the movie.
I never knew what was with the ending as a kid but I think something like this came to mind.
Regarding John Barry, it's worth adding that in 1979 he composed the scores for not only Moonraker and The Black Hole, but also Starcrash! A total of three Star Wars-inspired (or at least "greenlit due to the success of") films with Barry scores in the same year. His talent was staggering.
I liked Barry’s soundtrack for the King Kong remake (1976)
@@austintrousdale2397 Yes! My favorite Barry score. It evokes a mood of mystery and tragedy and romance. I love it.
@@austintrousdale2397 Incredible soundtrack!
And 13 years later...Dances With Wolves. R.I.P John Barry
I don't think anybody would like to be remembered for anything associated with Starcrash lol
One of my old time favorites. With John Barry’s beautiful film score, I can watch this movie repeatedly and it never gets old.
I wish they would release a decent blu ray. The one they did release was only marginally better than the dvd. And it was bare bones. The dvd has a few interesting extras.
At 1:33:12. In the novelization of the movie by Alan Dean Foster, Holland and Kate do have a romantic relationship, which is established very early on in a scene aboard the Palomino, including banter between them where they discuss adopting Vincent when they get back to Earth. This scene was supposedly filmed for the movie, but was cut from the final theatrical version.
I had the action figures; they were surprisingly good. Especially the robots. Maximillian utterly terrified me as a kid, & I never got over BO.B, the old robot, dying.
they recently made new ones that are amazing. if thats your thing check them out. Diamond select toys. still in circulation.
@@culturewarrior2012 Interesting info!
I still have my VINCENT hanging out on the bookshelf to this day.
I only had the sleeping bag, I guess my action figure budget was taken up with Star Wars back then
I had the Black Hole book and record.
Me neither cried my fucking eyes out in the theatre and got nothing but derision and a scolding from my old man.
God he was such an insensitive prick that day.
His death fucking broke me..
Big time. (B.o.b)
I still choke up when I watch that movie and that scene...
I really miss the Disney which made movies like this rather than just endless watered down sequels and remakes. First saw this as a kid and was absolutely convinced for years that I'd imagined it until I randomly saw it on TV one afternoon a few years ago!
The scene when Maximilian smashes through the wall with the red background is cinematic perfection.
I love this age of Disney, so many well-crafted, dark films, I'm glad to have grown up with them. Although I only first saw this one as an adult, on a big screen in a private theater. Amazing experience, both as a cinematic experience and as a startling reminder of visiting Epcot as a small child in the 80s and early 90s. Disney needs to remember the company they used to be, even at their previous low points.
This film is a masterpiece. As a child I loved the robots and the massive ship they explore. As an adult I see all of the clever choices in storytelling. This really was Disney at it's finest...and bravest.
Yeah,
*spoilers*
Zombies in a Disney movie... who ever saw THAT coming?
Yeah, no.
I 100% agree and with this review rating this film as "8 out of 10".
U sir are spot on a true masterpiece indeed 🧐
So glad someone was able to analyze the real meaning of the film. It was only a “science fiction” on the surface. This film was more fantasy, dreamlike, and spiritual at its core. The sci-fi and science of the movie was never to be taken literally. That is exactly what I understood from it when I was kid watching it in the theaters those years ago.
100%
It's not a total loss - John Barry's music is great, the atmosphere is both epic and haunting, Roddy McDowall and Slim Pickens voicing the robots provided a lot of charm, and it is surprisingly cerebral compared to the film it was trying to emulate.
My dad took me to go see this when I was a kid. Back then on the big screen it seemed as real as anything could feel. It was really awesome...one of my favorite memories!
The ending sequence also reminds me of the “Night on Bald Mountain/Ave Maria” vignette in _Fantasia_.
It’s great that Disney tried something so bold and original. I saw this in the theater when I was eight years old, and I’m sure it scarred me for life. _laughs_
That's a brilliant observation and even though I love Fantasia that link never even occurred to me. You hero.
Spot on!
I thought the ghost was Dr Reinhardt resurrected with that hair.
You must be 54?
Tron was bold and original. AND GOOD! Very, very GOOD.
Looking forward to watching this. The Black Hole was one of my favourite movies when I was a kid, saw it at the cinema when it came out, and I still love it now.
me too! Had a few of the figures, too loved the Maximillian figure - couldnt find VinCENT anywhere though!
Ohhhh yeah! I had the read-along storybook with the record! Maximilian scared the crap out of me!
I saw this when I was extremely young: it left a huge cinematic impression on me. The end was far beyond my level of comprehension but its vagueness left a huge impression in my memory.
I have long believed that Maximilian's brain was actually Frank McRae. This would make Reinhardt's punishment even more poetic.
whoa, I never even put that together. It would make sense.
To your point on the effects compositing issues, I took the time to remaster the bluray release of this movie, performing much of the individual scene and colour correction of which you speak. I can confirm that it does benefit it greatly, and having managed such tweaks myself it's ultimately a surprise on the technical level that Disney didn't take the time, especially given that they did perform some work on it.
Ah, you worked on the transfer. Thanks for your work. I enjoyed watching it in HD. EDIT: Just saw your response that you have been working on a private compositing correction transfer. Would love to see that.
Too bad the Blu Ray isn't available at stores. The DVD transfer was terrible,wires visible and everything. It could really use a good fixing up but it's far too niche a film for them to give it the full treatment like a 4K release would need.
The bit that gets me is that score. Stunning. Sadly the film is just a bit underwhelming.
McDowell's voice is great too.
*You probably don't remember but Shredded Wheat had a tie in with it.
The toys were quite frankly (to use a good NW word) "shite".
@@kellinwinslow1988 That's why I've been doing all this work.. I chose it as one of my favourite films to work as an experiment to see how much I could learn and how far I could push the software I'm using (DaVinci Resolve). Alex's outfit is now as blue throughout as I can make it, and not teal, whilst still honouring the colour balance against the blue screen for the whole. I'm also trying my artistic hand at refining the matte work (just compensating for the technical aspects - no changes or disrespect to the artists actual work), and mopping up the wire removal - they caught some obvious ones but missed others on the bluray..
@@BURP39R I do remember that - they were transfers in that pack weren't they?
It left a big impression as a kid. Max scared me - but rewatching it, the cute robots were charming but they eyes were a bit too cheap. Old movies make new movies look dumb. Going by memory I'd give it an 8. With realism I agree as long as you're not dealing with every day life it doesn't matter.
Word-some heady scary stuff for kids....
The novelization of The Black Hole is actually very good, fills in some information the film doesn't. Such as the Captain and the female scientist were having affair. That may have been very subtlety hinted at in the film but not fully explored.
@Black Lesbian Poet No. But I enjoy being offended. Tell me more!
i enjoy the detailed walkthrough ager gives for his reasoning and rationale behind his criticisms. has convinced me of some ideas i initially believed to be far fetched
A long but affectionate, articulate, thoughtful and occasionally cheeky review that I enjoyed more than I expected. And yes, I watched this on the big screen way back in '79, and vividly remember being in awe by the opening sequence and the haunting music.
Thank you for this this effort (I realize how much work this must have been), you made me re-appreciate a guilty pleasure of mine.
As for science in the film, the one thing that often gets overlooked, perhaps due to the gothic design ethos of the three ships; The Cygnus, Palomino, and probe ship, that the Palomino maneuvers around the massive Cygnus using very realistic Newtonian physics, even shutting off her main engines once inside the anti-gravity field to coast along with her small reaction control thrusters to do slight changes in her velocity vector, even moving over the ship with them and the thruster firings match those directional changes well!
It dawned on me a few years back: What if The Black Hole was the prequel to Event Horizon? Max evolved to the point he could possess organic and non organic material. Max becomes the grim reaper taking souls back to his hell version multiverse.
Interesting…👍🏽
Oh hell yeah! Love both movies! They are true gems.
"The Black Hole" takes place in 2130. I don't remember if it's said in the film, but when looking for the year in which the events of the film take place, I found 2130. As for "Event Horizon" it takes place in 2047. In reality it would rather be "Event Horizon" the unofficial prequel to "The Black Hole". But I consider to takes place in the same universe.
Yes! Thank you for posting about this movie. This movie somewhat traumatized me as a kid; it has such an eerie story, soundtrack and mood throughout the film.
I for one always think there’s a merciless effect of fear that exudes from the robot guards on the ship. Maximilian was very ominous and a fresh and different figure himself that projected that theme of doom.
Watching as a kid I would imagine being chased down by the guards and/or Maximilian along those long hallways of the ship… very creepy mental imagery.
My hat's off to Bob Herron, Ernest Borgnine's stunt-double of many years, who we recently lost. He worked on The Black Hole, and was also Kahless the Unforgettable (amongst other roles) in the original Star Trek.
The film of The Black Hole has a spiritual ending, full of symbolism, (I always felt that the Cygnus crew were bearing witness to Reinhardt's punishment in Hell!), but if you'd prefer a more literal and perhaps scientific interpretation, I recommend Alan Dean Foster's novelisation. It features the original Christmas-orientated opening scene, a few specifics of the Palomino's interior, (there's a compact gym!), and details how Holland's crew survived their perilous trek across the Cygnus. Dan Spiegel's six issue comic, released in Europe and South America (but cancelled early in the States) followed the crew to the alternate Universe, where they encountered another Old Bob, the Palomino-2, and... an alternate Reinhardt!
Maybe one day, Holland's crew will ask Vincent to reverse the course that Reinhardt plotted through the Einstein-Rosen bridge, and return themselves to Earth.... 🚀🌍
Your excellent analysis really inspired me to the point where I have just bid on a Blu Ray copy of the Black Whole. While I am 70, and have always enjoyed SciFi, I never saw the movie when it came out or to date. Probably overly influenced by the negative critical reaction. Thank you for turning me on to this movie!
Hey Rob. Lucky me: I did saw The Black Hole in theater when I was a kid. In school, they took us one wednesday morning at the local theater and showed it to us. It was a memorable experience. The illuminated ship stays in my memory for years.
Watched it as a kid (about 8yrs old) and was fascinated by it.
Not hiding mature themes from kids is what makes movies like UP so timeless
Watched it as a kid ... the death scene where the robot kills the the guy with blades was a bit disturbing.
I saw UP as an adult and I still have to talk about it with my therapist....
@@pauliedibbs9028How does that make you feel.....?
@@ArmonMitchell lmao
@@bobbygoestoabyss6624 It's handled with care though. I loved it as a little kid in the cinema. They shouldn't wrap kids in so much cotton wool. Representations of death are important for children's development.
There is a making of the black Hole that I've seen that points out that the heaven and hell ending was actually created by the VFX team because everyone, including Disney had given up on the project before it had finished. The VFX team was told to create an ending so they did.
I've read assorted reports about how the ending came about. Whoever did it I think they did a decent job. Similar thing happened with Star Trek TMP. They didn't have and ending as they were shooting but eventually came up with one that fitted very well.
the ending was the only good part of the movie...
The ending is basically how "Dante's Inferno" ends. We've toured hell, now Heaven is next up.
@@Pantheragem i would have loved to see a black hole movie where it interpretes event horizon as the gate of hell, where they fall into infinity through all steps of hell and then it ends in utter darkness and cold. And then it fades from dark blue greenish shadows slowly into black while screams are slowly muted and then total silence for a minute or so. The end. But then its not a family picture any more of course. But I would like to see that type of movie.
Just funny that the film already made had references to the ending sprinkled throughout.
This is the most eloquent and meticulous Niel deGrasse Tyson burn video on youtube 🤣
Jokes aside though (but not really), great video as always, Rob. Thanks. And yes, like many others, this movie was legit frightening and tense to me when I watched it as a kid.
Agreed. Neil deGrasse Tyson's outlandish criticism of this film only serves to reveal his gimmicks to garner audiences that have no mental capacity for intellectual or philosophical thought.
@@rezenpm Tyson seems to be on a crusade to be as pedantic as possible. When Top Gun: Maverick came out, he tried to trash it on Twitter by insisting that Maverick could not have survived an ejector seat bale-out of his disintegrating Mach 10 research aircraft. He got dogpiled hard by people describing actual crew-escape capsules which exist in real life and which could conceivably cushion the blow and give him a chance.
@@Ensign_Cthulhu He's the original, "Well, actually" troll. 🤣
The meteor looks amazing. The scene itself might not be realistic but the practical effects itself looks REALLY good.
@53:00
Reinhardt actually says, "More light."
This is a direct quote of Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe's legendary dying words. Goethe is known for his 19th century play about Faust, who makes a deal with the devil to acquire forbidden knowledge and power.
@58:54
I think this part is pretty cut and dried sequence with not much extra to read in to it. It's an angelic figure guiding them to the heavenly new world of Revelation 21:1, the new world with no oceans (also mentioned ironically during the climax of Cameron's Titanic).
I don't know if it was verified or part of the Alan Dean Foster novelization, but there are some fans who believe that Kate McCrae's father is actually inside Maximilian, and that Maximilian retains McCrae's anger towards Reinhardt, which is why Reinhardt is worried Maximilian might turn on him. It might also explain why Reinhardt whispers to Kate "protect me from Maximilian!"
No, the novelization is pretty clear that Frank McCrae was killed, along with a good number of the Cygnus crew who mutinied with him, and those that survived suffered the fate of being turned into the humanoid robots. It also gets pretty dark as Old Bob has to explain the details in this version of the process as far as he can understand it, and how there is no hope of ever saving or restoring the remaining crew. Death really is their only release, and the Palomino crew needs to get off and get away from the Cygnus as fast as they can.
My brother in law got me The Black Hole on DVD and Krull on Blu-Ray for Christmas a couple of years ago. I was lucky enough to watch both movies on the big screen when they were released. The Black Hole came from a time when Disney took risks and ended up releasing some fantastic movies including Condorman, Tron and The Black Cauldron. Absolutely brilliant story telling from a time we’ll never see again
Oh yea Krull! I forgot about that one, another fun movie from back in the day. I always wanted a Glaive
I loved seeing this on the big screen and it was a true epic spectacle. But the funny thing was all the parents that brought their kids along expecting it to be a cutesy kiddie flick, but got a shock when Dr. Durant is murdered by Maximilian using those whirling blades, and a number of them fled the cinema as fast as their legs could take them!
Absolutely phenomenal video! I will never be able to unhear “encased in a Maximilian shell”. Thank you! One of my all time favorite movies since my first viewing (my first VHS rental in 1985). I still think about this movie all the time. Really appreciate all the details and deep dive.
This wasn't quite Disney's last foray into darkness. A few years later they would adapt Ray Bradbury's 'Something Wicked This Way Comes' - and produce another underrated movie.
I’ve seen that movie countless times but it’s been so long that I barely remember it
You forget “Return to Oz” which has more than a couple of forays into dark subject matter - including the less often discussed abuses conducted in the name of psychology and psychiatry, via electroshocking.
@@EmilyGloeggler7984 Was aware of 'Return to Oz' but didn't know it was a Disney production - that's a great shout.
I think this soundtrack is one of the best ever made for a movie - it truly fits the movie and the themes of it...
Yeah it's astoundingly good. Someone posted the expanded score here on YT and I was over the moon.
@@collativelearning What if Mr. Tyson can't handle the spiritual themes of the movie, so he got so triggered by it that he has to block them out of his mind. To do it he lashes out and has to tell himself that the depiction of the black hole (and the ending) is not scientific and therefore reassure himself that it doesn't apply to his life. So spiritually dead that he operates like a neurotic and if he could be honest identifies more closely with the Perkins character or perhaps even Reinhardt than any of the others in the film, all "science" and nothing else. Spiritually blinded to the point of being absurd. How can a child see easily what he cannot?
Still one of my favorite movies to watch. Event Horizon reminded me a lot of this movie in many many ways.
YES !!! Definitely could see the inspiration in Event Horizon. Gothic ships 🎸
“You know that Disney movie Black Hole?”
“Yeah.”
“What if a black hole went to hell and we get some adult film actors to portray a cannibal blood orgy that happens when you enter?”
“Sounds great. Cowboy Curtis and Jurassic Park nerd should definitely be involved.”
“Definitely.”
My guess is that they were using a very fast lens for the scenes in the Robot shooting gallery; f0.9 with a very high focal length. The problem with this is that you end up with an extremely narrow depth of field, which would explain why the background ends up out of focus.
Holy crap! Talk about starting off my Wednesday morning on a pleasant note. I woke up this morning to an hour an 45 minute free Rob Ager video.
Yeah, this is a fantastic analysis.
Almost two hours for free? You're certainly spoiling us. If my memory serves me right, this was actually the first proper science fiction I ever saw and when I was probably far too young. So while it doesn't hold up all that well in technical terms - IMO - it will always have a special place in my heart.
The Cygnus always strikes me as a Baroque Orangery in space ... which somehow matches with especially the dinner scene with chandeliers. I've seen the film twice on the big screen (different friends wanting to see it) and it blew me away, with my friends rather being very silently afterwards. It wasn't the sci fi space opera they were expecting.
I had the Vincent figure as a kid and my family terrier chewed it up pretty bad. I got my mom to buy me another and when she went to throw away the old one I stopped her and said, No Mom, that’s Bob!
Only saw this in the past few years, born in '99, shown by my Dad, who saw it as a kid. I fell in love with it, even if parts are kinda goofy, nothing beats Max's design and that ending!
I saw "The Black Hole" in cinema when I was 14. The title sequence and music were marvelous, and the moment when the lights of the Cygnus were switched on was a real WOW.
And Maximillian is IMO one of the most impressive movie villains of all times only topped by Darth Vader.
Looking at the end I see a lot of parallels to the last sequence of Disney's "Fantasia". Maximilian stands there like the Chernobog in "Night on Bald Mountain" and the tracking shot through the gothic arcs is very similar to the beginning of the "Ave Maria"-Sequence.
Funny, when I was looking up the artwork of Peter Ellenshaw who worked in The Black Hole, I came across some of his designs for Fantasia and the similarities were striking. could have added a decent section to the vid on that point alone. cheers.
Ah, Fantasia. I have a strong nostalgia for that film, very atmospheric, and The Rite of Spring section is damn dark. And yes, the endings of both movies do bear striking resemblances.
This movie terrified me when I saw it just once around age 6. I never thought about it again though I vaguely recalled liking Vincent and some of his lines. Seeing your analysis helps settle some of that trauma from way back, understanding it a lot more with your explanations.
At 1:20:43, the patches make sense since the Cygnus herself is identified as the "United States: Space Probe One U.S.S. Cygnus".
Palomino I believe also has a U.S.S. before her name, but we don't know if she's a more international effort, hence no specific nation's flag. Yvette Mimieux's character seems to have a bit of an accent suggesting she's not American, so who knows?
I'll be 100% honest: given the heavenly tunnel initially appears WITHIN the "Reinhardt's personal hell" sequence I read the robed woman as being an angelic old man & the other side of Reinhardt. Watched this purely thanks to this video and I don't regret it.
Gosh that exactly how it seamed to me when I first watched!
I always thought the cathedral exit and the angel flying though was guiding the probeship survivors through to safety(either Heaven, or an alternate universe that the Black Hole in our universe was a White Hole in its universe).
Same. As a kid, I interpreted the tunnel as representing salvation for Reinhardt. As for the probe crew I believed they had escaped death into a parallel universe. As an adult now, I feel the interpretation offered by this study makes a lot more sense.
I can see A LOT of "Event Horizon" in this movie. From the beginning when the small ship is pulling up and examining the big, dark, hauntingly gothic ship, to the crazed-out doctor in command of the whole thing. The Black Hole in "The Black Hole" being rebranded as the black core in the Event Horizon. Even the name "Event Horizon" is derived from the event horizon of a black-hole (the event horizon is the "point of no return" for light and ANYTHING that goes near an actual black hole). And, the crazed-out doctor in "Event Horizon" being a rebrand of the crazed-out doctor in "The Black Hole."
Seems like "Event Horizon" is a re-make of "The Black Hole." All they did was replace the "evil robots" with just the concept of evil, itself.
Yes, like a pure horror version.
@@collativelearning Except going outside is a really, really bad thing in Event Horizon. Terrifying scene that I still remember from a movie which I suspect doesn't totally hold up now. Although Larry Fishburne is the most genre-savvy character in any film ever:
Crew see video of screaming, torment and body horror - "We're leaving".
Brilliant line.
Oh right.
@@KrillLiberator It's a pity for Fishburne's character that the malign influence permeating the ship is just as genre-savvy as he is.
I have wished to do a deep-dive dissection of this film, but I knew I could never do it justice. You, sir, have done a fantastic job. I recognize the flaws of this film but still rank it among my most favorite. Also, the musical score by John Barry is my absolute favorite. I listen to it (the soundtrack CD) from beginning to end ant least 3-4 times per year. It will never grow old because it is an absolute masterpiece. BTW: the over/under blasters are fantastic and the sounds they make are THE BEST laser sounds ever conceived. Great job! I bow to you.
Totally agree with your assertion about the sound design and the blaster fix- never forgot that sound and have tried to duplicate it since the 80s! That Xf has had components show up as before/after sweetening in animated shows such as GIJoe and others- never fully playing it out.
As far as I’m concerned, Vincent is the best robot/droid made- ESP, Multi tooled who also follows Asimov’s Law of Robotics.
Definitely underrated as a film.
@@RusSEAL The best I can describe the blaster sound is "hot electricity".
I saw this on release in 79 and it left a deep impression. I was a Star Wars kid, my brother a Trekkie so was schooled on various flavors of sci fi presentation, but this film was different. It had a melancholic vibe with the empty ship, lost to records for 20 years or however long it was; the feeling of being marooned on this space cathedral being steered into certain doom by a madman and Maximilian was terrifying. The sentry robots were cool, VINCENT was a unique design and the most reassuring character in the cast. Great work and hope it becomes more appreciated over time.
I cannot believe I have never heard of this film. I will certainly watch it now. The robots look funny and I like it when you mix psychological drama, whilst maintaining humour and fun. Another Rob Ager classic. Barry Norman (RIP) eat your heart out.
Keep your expectations low.
@@TankUni a good man knows his limitations.
I'm so glad you covered this. I rewatched this film for the first time since I was a kid and I was pleasantly surprised by how much I really enjoyed it. Its story had more depth than I realized. I'm glad someone else finds this film underrated .
Maximilian was the best and scariest robot in a movie, The scene where Reinhardt whispers "Protect me from Maximilian" Chilled me as a kid.
At 1:20:40, the U.S. flags on the uniforms makes sense since the Cygnus is a ship built and apparently operated under the authority of the government of the United States of America. Vincent specifically states "United States Space Probe One. U.S.S. Cygnus." and this in context to him calling out previous spacecraft and space station silhouettes by national origin. U.S.S. is a standard prefix for ships in active U.S. Navy service, so the Cygnus is a space-going U.S. Navy vessel and or Space Force vessel.
Yep, Harry even talks about how Reinhardt had taken his own personal dreams and through his sheer personality and charisma had been able to make his ideas seem to the public, and most importantly the US Congress’ Space Appropriations Committee to be national priorities and so to fund the construction of what seems to be implied to be the largest American starship ever built, its mission having been a failure with a loss of dozens of lives and no doubt hundreds of billions of dollars in the vessel itself seems to have truly influenced later space developments as Palomino is conducting the exact same mission at a fraction of the size and I’m sure a fraction of the cost
Yeah I loved this… Disney’s Darkest.
How far they have fallen.
Def more interesting than the new Star Wars movies !
@@collativelearning
_”These are not the _*_sequels_*_ you are looking for”_ 😏
@@jewelcitizen2567 Haha
Have you seen The Black Cauldron or Dragonslayer? Both are 80’s dark Disney. Also check out The Last Unicorn.
@@lunarvision “You can find them if you are brave… They passed down these roads long ago and the Red Bull ran close behind them and covered their footsteps… See ya later Alligator!”
I haven't seen this movie in almost 40 years and the memory of Old Bob's death actually had me tear. I can vividly remember that old man voice speaking. It's funny how formed we are by our early exposure to the concept of death. I have had plenty of real death that sits less in my long term memory than this fictional one. Strange.
Yes! So stoked to see you do an analysis on this! This is one of my favorite movies of all time and I'm always happy to see it get some more love and recognition. I first saw it when I was around 7 or 8 and even then I was always attracted to how eerily dark and nightmarish this film is, especially for Disney, and Maximilian is such a cool antagonist. :D
Neil DeGrasse Tyson failed to take into account the Cygnus' anti -gravity tech (and that of its probe ship), which would explain why the crew was not spaghettified
I’m not sure that would prevent spaghettisation though it’s all guessing… but being that black holes distort time and space we could imagine maybe what would seem to be deadly might be just an external perception and the effect might not be as damaging for the subject under the close distance to the black hole … at least it’s fun to imagine, all being speculation.
Roddy McDowell!!! Will throw quotes from this film forever. Saw it on release at age 19. You wouldn't believe how good the Score is inside a Theatre. Playing the ST at home has required it being cranked for 43 years now.
"All sunshine makes a desert."
I saw The Black Hole in theaters in 1979, at the age of 12. Absolutely LOVED it, and still do. It has its flaws, but I think they add to its charm. The ending is one that I understand, too. Reinhart (deservedly) ends up in Hell, trapped forever in a prison of his own making; Maximillion's shell (pun intended).
I know that it's not scientifically accurate, but I still love the plot points. The music is top notch, and one of the best soundtracks ever produced.
I have bought this movie at least 6 times. VHS copies of both "Pan and Scan" and Widescreen, DVD copies of both formats, the Blu-Ray version, and on iTunes. I had many of the action figures, as well as models of VINCent, Maximillion, and the USS Cygnus. The Cygnus model is larger than the model of the Battlestar Galactica that I have. I still have the ship models and action figures. The robot models were lost years ago.
Edit: 59:20 - The "woman/angel" as you call it.... that's straight up "Jesus Christ". Look at the pose of the figure. Crossed feet and arms outspread. The pose of someone who has been crucified. The symbolism is pretty clear, he passed judgment on Reinhart and delivered him to his punishment.
This was the first movie I watched in the cinema and, as an 8 year old, it totally blew me away. I became obsessed with it and probably watched it about a thousand times having recorded it off the TV a few years later.
It wasn't the concept or the story that I particularly loved about it - which is why I wouldn't care too much for a remake. For me, it's all about the way it is.
My father took me to see this in the last single screen grand theaters in our area. We were the only ones there, it was epic.
This is ranks as one of my favorite space films and one of favorite memories of my father.
Maximillian really steals the show as a villain. Or should I say “the” villain. The movie definitely has some flaws but it’s still a good one.
An iconic, evil robot design. Genus.
Maximilian Salamanca
I was six in '79 saw Moonraker, "Motion Picture" and "Black Hole" all in the theater. Yes, the meteor on big screen was huge lol. But the "white light" on Enterprise bridge during "V'ger infil" was more intense lol. all those movies that induced epilepsy hello Poltergeist lol.
Your analysis is terrific; of note: I had the Gold Key/Disney comic book adaptation - should be noted final panel is a "epilogue" to how the film ends: the Palomino is shown landing on a "Garden of Eden-esque" "Heaven" anticipating the Genesis planet at the end of ST2: WoK - the crew has disembarked and is outside amongst lush palms and vegetation, marveling at their "new home" - seemingly able to breathe like as if they'd say landed in Griffith Park in L.A. or something lol.
I have the Alan Dean Foster "novelization" kicking around somewhere. Not sure how that ends
The cartoon eyes of the robot was a last minute fix for a technical problem. The designer of the robots intended for the eyes to be animated by CRT screens like the one in the center of his chest but they couldn't get them to work right and were very hard to see on camera and since they needed to start filming within days, the only option was the one we end up seeing in the film.
With rewatching this I noticed something I never thought about before. The twin laser design of the guns, a kind of dangerous symmetry, another hint at the geometrical representation of danger and death. Just like Reinhardt and Maximilian being a lethal symmetry of one another, and Max's twin death blades.
Thank heavens finally said this was a classic sci-fi movie. I had a copy on tape as a kid and loved it!!
I was about 5 or 6 when my parents were watching this in the living room and i watched it and it scared me A LOT. The clones when they took the masks off them creeped me out. the damaged robot sacrificing himself for them from the evil robot made me so sad too. I remember thinking “i wouldn’t have let him do that i would’ve told him he was gonna be ok and to come with us” bc my lil mind couldn’t process him dying. And that scene where the evil space captain guy is in space and he’s like holding the evil robot and then the next scene where he’s IN THE ROBOT GOING INTO THE BLACK HOLE seriously SCARED me as a kid. Maybe i should rewatch it lol
Thank you so much for this review! I genuinely believe that listening to your essays over the years has been a tremendous benefit to my own critical thinking. I'm a huge fan of your work.
I let out an exasperated "Thank you!" when you addressed the harsh, unfair scrutiny critics gave to the scientific inaccuracies of the film's spiritual message. You articulated the absurdity of this notion wonderfully.
I've had memories of this movie for decades and I could never figure out what movie it was I had rented. The title didn't ring a bell, but as soon as I saw those "over/under" blasters my childhood memories of it came flooding back. You mentioned at one point how the blasters look claw or pincer-like, ant-like. For your consideration, I perceived it as pitchfork like and this is paralleled by the Cygnus' engines. I know you brought up pitchforks elsewhere, but perhaps you hadn't noticed this particular wrinkle and would get a kick out of it.
Sorry for rambling. I love your analysis. And thank you for putting these long form essays on UA-cam just recently for us plebs!
Brilliant, BRILLIANT review!!! I loved the movie as a kid - had it on tape - and now I admire it even more! Had no idea it was so, so deep. A masterpiece.
I remember watching The Black Hole as a child on The Disney Channel when it was a new pay channel around ‘83. I remember it being “weird” from my point of view but I was mesmerized at the same time. There are parts that don’t get explored enough as an adult, however, it has an undeniable charm and grandness to it. The classically trained actors are great. You definitely can’t go wrong with Robert Forrester, Ernest Borgnine, and Anthony Perkins either. It’s definitely a film you turn down the lights and crank up the surround sound!
Love this movie. Totally under rated. Great channel and great reviews! Thank you!
I always thought the ending of 2001 was pretty obvious.
Dave learns that the universe is all about change and rebirth into a higher plane of existence. That the universe is infinite because nothing truly dies.
Great review of this movie, especially the ending. I was always confused by the ending as a kid. Most other reviews don't even try to explain it like you did.
Neil DeGrasse "I am a scientist and you are racist, I can tell" Tyson :D
Stopped watching this video when he popped up and was apparently being taken seriously.
@@MrBlueSky1978 He wasn't being taken seriously. He was getting ripped :)
44:39 "high IQ adult physicist, like Neil Degrasse Tyson..." now that's sarcasm.
A very underrated & now kinda forgotten movie is "The Wild Geese" from 1978, one of my favorites!
Somehow nobody seems to speak about this one today, or even know about it, which is a bloody shame. 🤔
I love The Wild Geese and have wanted to do a video on it for ages. Marvelous film
@@collativelearning Ah, finaly, a man of culture... 😬👍🏻
Thank you for such an in-depth review. This has been one of my all-time favorite movies, since seeing it in the theater as a child. I really liked the majority if your ideas for the remake. I have always worried that a remake would hurt the original, but you have great ideas. You need to write that script. The only idea that I personally would skip is maybe the Vincent as furniture treatment because he is the film to me. You presented many things that I somehow missed over the last four plus decades. Nice job on finding all of the little details that I overlooked. I kept rewinding parts to study them. You managed to use really clear video footage which I appreciated. Thanks again.
Big thumbs up for calling Neil deGrasse Tyson pedantic. He's an arrogant twat, and a few years ago Obama's "science advisor" engaged in an attempt to deem political opposition "unscientific". Science is NEVER dogmatic, Science is an ongoing discussion, a huge collection of research, interpretations and often conflicting opinions.
The Black Hole had quite an impression on me as a kid. The eerie funeral processions of what was left of the crew were scary.
Woah, Tyson tried that? I haven't read much about him, just watched his ridiculous comments on The Black Hole. He seems more like an arrogant, over-confident salesman than a scientist from what I've seen.
Neil "The Gas, Try some"... May actually be a Black Hole. Although I have no proof of this. Black Holes Matter!
I appreciated not cutting him any slack too. I'd sure enjoy a nod to that hubris in the remake. Maybe the Cygnus was doing fine but then starts cracking when it turns out Dr. Hans T. Reinhardt, in love with his own views, discounted some alternate theory. Adding the T in dialog with the full name on the book handed to Durant wouldn't be too obvious would it?
I think Tyson has let his fame get to his head
I read in a scientific article a couple years ago that there is a theory if a black hole is big enough it could have two singularities instead of one. The presence of two singularities could make it possible to travel through on one of them. So this movie had it correct all along. Take that Tyson LMAO! Peace.
OMG, I LOVE your reviews!! Finally found a professional critic who I share similar tastes with!!
I’ve loved The Black Hole since I was a toddler (yes). Still have the old pop-up book. Always found it a deeper & darker, family cult classic. Yeah, it’s cheesy at times…but there’s a lot going on, with big ambitions, hypnotic, retro deep-space ambiance, and violence. One of the first to utilize cgi as well.
Love your analysis - spot on as always!!
Fellow pop-up book owner here 😄 Unfortunately, lost it a long time ago, but great memories 👍
Thanks Rob for making a great video on this movie. Always loved this film since I was 8 years old when it came out. So little discussion about this film out there so it’s great to see someone make a detailed study of it.
Loved this. "Criminally Underrated Movies" is my favorite series that you do.
Great choice……a film I love still after all these decades (and it has an epic score). Looking forward to listening 👍🏻
Loved this movie since I was a kid. I would listen to the soundtrack over and over again.
That, sir, was an absolutely brilliant analysis of The Black Hole, one of my favourite childhood films and one I was lucky enough to see on the big screen at its release when I was 9 years old. Every comment you made, I completely agree with and I like your ideas for a remake. Having worked in cinema for much of my career, when people ask me which is my favourite Disney movie, I say The Black Hole, and people are usually like, "...waaht??". A massively underrated film. Your video here was the video I didn't know I needed to see, until now!
Spaghettification seems ridiculous to me. They say it's because the gravity at your feet when getting close to the singularity is stronger than the gravity at your head (providing you're falling in that way) so you stretch out. But surly you'd just break apart rather than stretch. We're not Stretch Armstrong. Bone shatters, skin rips and fluids disperse. Also if light can't escape then I can't see how anything denser or more complex than single particles or even just potons can exist inside the event horizon anyway.