Coming from the audiophile community, some reviewers have overlays of a headphones sound signature on an EQ graph and they can pick and select and overlay different headphone graphs (in different colors) to see their differences. You should do the same with the sweet spot of a paddle and then you can overlay them with different paddles to see their differences.
Cool idea. That would be informative because there's useful information not only about the overall size of the sweet spot, but it's location on the paddle face (long, narrow, wide, high, low, etc.)
John, can you please elaborate on exactly where you’re weighting the Chorus SS? Had a bit of a hard time following how you modified since your last pod review. Thank you, and I’m receiving mine tomorrow! 🙌🥊
My latest setup is the 28 gram Slyce cap on the base, and then the 1g/inch (heavier) tungsten tape starting right above the overgrip, and going up to the "H" on the SHAPESHIFTER logo along the side of the paddle
I've had this question for a couple weeks now since you've brought up that you live in a higher altitude area in Colorado. Do you think that the difference in your RPM numbers from other paddle reviewers has to do with the fact that the air is less dense where you test? I know that technique and other bodily mechanics play a component, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
That’s an interesting question. I didn’t notice any difference in spin at the Joola event in New Orleans, versus testing the same paddles at home in Colorado. I haven’t noticed much difference with temperature, either (with the exception of the Nanotac surface on Protons). So I suspect there’s not a huge difference in spin across different climates, but that’s based on a small sample size
@@johnkewpickleball Thanks for the reply! I was curious since anecdotally many players bring up the fact that regional humidity can affect ball speed quite a bit. I remember Chris Olsen bringing up the fact that playing in Florida humidity with the Gen 3 Hyperion made it feel like a more 'normal' paddle (not as powerful). I thought perhaps air density could also play a factor in how well the ball can spin.
Agree w/ Eddie on his experience w/ certification and creating a more diligent certification process through the entire design/development process of equipment. Actually, I am surprised that this wasn't similar to how it works today w/ USAP. I think you would catch a lot of issues ahead of product launch as well as be confident in your R&D in launching a certifiable product. My $.02, we won't see much benefit between UPA-A and USAP testing. The desired outcome will be achieved by both, and the differentiation will be in UPA-A's barrier to entry. Ask yourself this, what paddles have been approved that should not have been? Also, what paddles have not been approved, but should? It seems to me that USAP, outside of a huge hiccup with Gen 3, has achieved the desired outcome for testing and certification.
@@johnkewpickleball the joola ball doesn’t play so well in the hot southern climate. Out of round real quick and horrible bounces. Played the Punta Gorda and Savanah events. Got 2 more here in Florida in December
If anyone wants a great idea for a cheap and good PB Bag I found that the Swiss Army brand or similar Laptop bag from your local Thrift store can hold 3-4 paddles and my shoes and balls and accessories. Cost me $12.
There are some companies in China that are actually copying big pickleball paddle brands in the US and selling them at a very much cheaper price. With PPAtour charging paddle brands USD 100k per year and 5 K per paddle, this will only push the price for pickleball paddles to go up. And with that, more and more ppl especially those who are living in countries who earn less will definitely buy those "fake" pickleball paddles. How about tennis? Are tennis brands such as Head, Wilson, Price, etc paying this much annually and per tennis racquet? I believe PPAtour should charge according to how many paddles each company is selling. That would allow competition to be fair.
Yes, the sliding scale approach makes a lot of sense. Brands with up to two paddles pay significantly less than brands with five or more models, or something along those lines. Maybe also incentivize innovation by allowing companies to submit an application to waive the certification fees for paddles involving novel materials or construction techniques if they do their own certification testing through a third party
Love the pod John. You are the go to guy regarding scientific/quantifiable metrics for pickleball equipment and you continually come up with new measurements to help explain paddles based on real numbers. Please don't go down the rabbit hole of putting a subjective score on pop, plushness, etc. Everyone else is doing that and honestly a subjective score is a joke. To that, your paddle batttle was kind of funny but was a turn off as it seemed more like a way to get clicks/views since there was nothing scientific about it. I don't think I would watch future paddle battle kinds of episode unless the battle was a comparison of numbers and not "who played better with a paddle". Eddie may like this as he seems to be more of a touchy/feely less scientific guy but I urge you to do what you do best and stay true to that instead of getting into subjective stuff. It's not you.
I think this is a loss for the PB community. More regulation, more money talking, stifling the innovation, lack of input from the consumers, big move made by big companies. USAP had the opportunity to do it right by investing in more staff and additional throughput in the testing to handle the load, but they did not, the communication was broken , the rules unclear, "trampoline effect" and now here we are. And to have a RPM cap is going to stop the ability of the game to progress. It's different than a grit test because the paddle build has a lot to do with it along with grit. but if they cap RPM.... not good.
I hear you - the UPA-A's affiliation with the organizations they're regulating naturally feels suspicious. Hopefully they also recognize this and roll out a series of measures to ensure transparency and impartiality. But the RPM test is intriguing to me. As long as they are willing to be flexible on the limit and consider adjusting it at times (e.g., cap power, raise spin), then it might be beneficial to have a system where the output is regulated, and not the means of achieving that output. E.g., if RPM was capped at 2,500 with a standardized test, then companies could move on to more durable surfaces that maybe use a higher coefficient of friction than is currently allowable (e.g., move away from grit and RCF to something more like nanotac, or even something like Geckskin
I like the idea of recording on site, but it was really difficult to listen to on my end. Between the sound of the ball hitting the paddles and the music, it was tough to follow what y’all were saying, which is the only reason I listen
My feedback about UPA-A suggestions is that they need to be more independent and less big companies on the board. John, you should be on the board. You would be a great independent voice. Also, I like a pro-rated fee or a smaller fee. Example, $10k fee is much more reasonable than $100k to give smaller companies a chance and not such a cut line. Last thought. The end result should be minimal inflation cost passed to the consumer to pay for a paddle. I’m not paying $300 for a paddle in the future that lasts 6 months. Most companies need to be able to stay $200 and below in today’s market.
Who cares about paddle innovation when everyone is calling for limits on power, spin, and materials? Only allow a few paddles that are currently available without any further evolution. Heaven help us if we need to wear safety glasses...... it's all about keeping the game the same. Maybe let them change the color (as long as it's not green or white), graphics, and grip. But I don't know, maybe the grip is too much... I also think the practice of weighting paddles needs to be stopped, it makes the game too fast...... it's not the pickleball my grandmother and Chris played.
Regulation leads to dead weight loss in the market shared by the supplier and consumer 100% of the time. Regulation is bad. Barrier to entry is irrelevant because the market will reach equilibrium no matter what so eliminate as much deadweight loss as possible to maximize benefit to consumers and suppliers. Economics 101…
Hmmmmm. Not sure how I feel about UPA-A being a non profit. Seems like a lot of their decisions will determine how much money the PPA makes. Oh no, am I turning into a conspiracy theorist?
That's funny - my parents asked me the same thing (if that's me drumming on the intro). It's not, but I do that fill a lot (which is probably why I chose the song, ha). Maybe some day I'll set up the kit again for a quick video, but man, it is SO much effort to record with 16 microphones
Regarding your spiderchart. Have you thought about reversing the swing weight area so that lower shows deeper in that area? Then a paddle that swelled in that area would have a lower swing weight and it would be easier to visualize in relation to pop power etc.
It’s hard to believe reducing the swing weight by adding a several grams to the static weight would make paddle more maneuverable. I speculate the static weight makes a difference at some point.
It's not lowering the swing weight; only the balance point (the swing weight remains the same, for the most part). But yes, there will be a point where the static weight increase is too much of a tradeoff
so, how much does usap actually charge manufacturers just to have their paddles certified? i heard they charge per paddle? if true, then this must involve a hell lot of money for usap 😊
@@johnkewpickleball wow !! sure hell a lot of money, i hope they won't kill small paddle manufacturers in the process .. and maybe they should give barney mc callum (if he still lives or his heirs if he's not) a huge portion of that money too ..
I think in theory, yes. But it's not something I've noticed. My flicks involve very little twisting. Check out the section on Ben John's tutorial on the flick, and watch where his paddle starts and stops. There's very little if any twisting along the center axis of the paddle, and it's mostly involving a movement that will be affected by swing weight: ua-cam.com/video/pt3HWfs7YCs/v-deo.htmlsi=C39Q6XiuAssVwMak&t=416
Greetings from the OC! Eddie, it was great meeting you and Paula today in Tustin. Love the show guys. Keep up the great work.
damn they were in tustin? veterans or school lane? I should've gone :(
Congrats on the 2nd place
Eddie had quite the dance party going on behind him. 😂
Also love the Centerline shirts.
So damn comfortable.
I have these and the new Bread & Butter performance shirts.
Great pod. Thanks for the paddle testing updates- always interesting.
Coming from the audiophile community, some reviewers have overlays of a headphones sound signature on an EQ graph and they can pick and select and overlay different headphone graphs (in different colors) to see their differences. You should do the same with the sweet spot of a paddle and then you can overlay them with different paddles to see their differences.
Cool idea. That would be informative because there's useful information not only about the overall size of the sweet spot, but it's location on the paddle face (long, narrow, wide, high, low, etc.)
John, can you please elaborate on exactly where you’re weighting the Chorus SS? Had a bit of a hard time following how you modified since your last pod review. Thank you, and I’m receiving mine tomorrow! 🙌🥊
My latest setup is the 28 gram Slyce cap on the base, and then the 1g/inch (heavier) tungsten tape starting right above the overgrip, and going up to the "H" on the SHAPESHIFTER logo along the side of the paddle
I've had this question for a couple weeks now since you've brought up that you live in a higher altitude area in Colorado. Do you think that the difference in your RPM numbers from other paddle reviewers has to do with the fact that the air is less dense where you test? I know that technique and other bodily mechanics play a component, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
That’s an interesting question. I didn’t notice any difference in spin at the Joola event in New Orleans, versus testing the same paddles at home in Colorado. I haven’t noticed much difference with temperature, either (with the exception of the Nanotac surface on Protons). So I suspect there’s not a huge difference in spin across different climates, but that’s based on a small sample size
@@johnkewpickleball Thanks for the reply! I was curious since anecdotally many players bring up the fact that regional humidity can affect ball speed quite a bit. I remember Chris Olsen bringing up the fact that playing in Florida humidity with the Gen 3 Hyperion made it feel like a more 'normal' paddle (not as powerful). I thought perhaps air density could also play a factor in how well the ball can spin.
YES DRUNKCAST
Agree w/ Eddie on his experience w/ certification and creating a more diligent certification process through the entire design/development process of equipment. Actually, I am surprised that this wasn't similar to how it works today w/ USAP. I think you would catch a lot of issues ahead of product launch as well as be confident in your R&D in launching a certifiable product.
My $.02, we won't see much benefit between UPA-A and USAP testing. The desired outcome will be achieved by both, and the differentiation will be in UPA-A's barrier to entry. Ask yourself this, what paddles have been approved that should not have been? Also, what paddles have not been approved, but should? It seems to me that USAP, outside of a huge hiccup with Gen 3, has achieved the desired outcome for testing and certification.
John, what did u think of the wpt? I’ve played 2 of their events earlier this year and might play 2 more this year.
It was well-run! I went last year also, and they did a good job both years
@@johnkewpickleball the joola ball doesn’t play so well in the hot southern climate. Out of round real quick and horrible bounces. Played the Punta Gorda and Savanah events. Got 2 more here in Florida in December
But what about the Vulcan ball?
The fact that proton decided to make new paddles withOUT the use of their nano-tac, that really had them stand out in the first place, troubles me 😅
Me too.
Like preparing for delisting?
I want to see Jon and eddy optimize their pickleball balmer curves.....
Hahaha, nice!
If anyone wants a great idea for a cheap and good PB Bag I found that the Swiss Army brand or similar Laptop bag from your local Thrift store can hold 3-4 paddles and my shoes and balls and accessories. Cost me $12.
Non profit gets their money from……… UPA, so who is the whipping boy?
There are some companies in China that are actually copying big pickleball paddle brands in the US and selling them at a very much cheaper price. With PPAtour charging paddle brands USD 100k per year and 5 K per paddle, this will only push the price for pickleball paddles to go up. And with that, more and more ppl especially those who are living in countries who earn less will definitely buy those "fake" pickleball paddles.
How about tennis? Are tennis brands such as Head, Wilson, Price, etc paying this much annually and per tennis racquet?
I believe PPAtour should charge according to how many paddles each company is selling. That would allow competition to be fair.
Yes, the sliding scale approach makes a lot of sense. Brands with up to two paddles pay significantly less than brands with five or more models, or something along those lines. Maybe also incentivize innovation by allowing companies to submit an application to waive the certification fees for paddles involving novel materials or construction techniques if they do their own certification testing through a third party
Love the pod John. You are the go to guy regarding scientific/quantifiable metrics for pickleball equipment and you continually come up with new measurements to help explain paddles based on real numbers. Please don't go down the rabbit hole of putting a subjective score on pop, plushness, etc. Everyone else is doing that and honestly a subjective score is a joke. To that, your paddle batttle was kind of funny but was a turn off as it seemed more like a way to get clicks/views since there was nothing scientific about it. I don't think I would watch future paddle battle kinds of episode unless the battle was a comparison of numbers and not "who played better with a paddle". Eddie may like this as he seems to be more of a touchy/feely less scientific guy but I urge you to do what you do best and stay true to that instead of getting into subjective stuff. It's not you.
I think this is a loss for the PB community. More regulation, more money talking, stifling the innovation, lack of input from the consumers, big move made by big companies. USAP had the opportunity to do it right by investing in more staff and additional throughput in the testing to handle the load, but they did not, the communication was broken , the rules unclear, "trampoline effect" and now here we are. And to have a RPM cap is going to stop the ability of the game to progress. It's different than a grit test because the paddle build has a lot to do with it along with grit. but if they cap RPM.... not good.
I hear you - the UPA-A's affiliation with the organizations they're regulating naturally feels suspicious. Hopefully they also recognize this and roll out a series of measures to ensure transparency and impartiality.
But the RPM test is intriguing to me. As long as they are willing to be flexible on the limit and consider adjusting it at times (e.g., cap power, raise spin), then it might be beneficial to have a system where the output is regulated, and not the means of achieving that output. E.g., if RPM was capped at 2,500 with a standardized test, then companies could move on to more durable surfaces that maybe use a higher coefficient of friction than is currently allowable (e.g., move away from grit and RCF to something more like nanotac, or even something like Geckskin
This was a GREAT show! Recording on location was genius. Loved seeing what you keep in your bag. Keep up the great work.
I like the idea of recording on site, but it was really difficult to listen to on my end. Between the sound of the ball hitting the paddles and the music, it was tough to follow what y’all were saying, which is the only reason I listen
Cool, thanks for that feedback - good to know!
Ooh, sweetspot heat map😮. Plushness maping😮.
My feedback about UPA-A suggestions is that they need to be more independent and less big companies on the board. John, you should be on the board. You would be a great independent voice. Also, I like a pro-rated fee or a smaller fee. Example, $10k fee is much more reasonable than $100k to give smaller companies a chance and not such a cut line. Last thought. The end result should be minimal inflation cost passed to the consumer to pay for a paddle. I’m not paying $300 for a paddle in the future that lasts 6 months. Most companies need to be able to stay $200 and below in today’s market.
Who cares about paddle innovation when everyone is calling for limits on power, spin, and materials? Only allow a few paddles that are currently available without any further evolution. Heaven help us if we need to wear safety glasses...... it's all about keeping the game the same. Maybe let them change the color (as long as it's not green or white), graphics, and grip. But I don't know, maybe the grip is too much... I also think the practice of weighting paddles needs to be stopped, it makes the game too fast...... it's not the pickleball my grandmother and Chris played.
Regulation leads to dead weight loss in the market shared by the supplier and consumer 100% of the time. Regulation is bad. Barrier to entry is irrelevant because the market will reach equilibrium no matter what so eliminate as much deadweight loss as possible to maximize benefit to consumers and suppliers. Economics 101…
Hmmmmm. Not sure how I feel about UPA-A being a non profit. Seems like a lot of their decisions will determine how much money the PPA makes. Oh no, am I turning into a conspiracy theorist?
I'm probably in the minority, but not a fan of the recording location. Distracting with the noise in the background.
Was competing in San Clemente pre-planned or a result of having division cancelled at Dallas event?
Please do more podcast with a live match in the background. Great environment with a lively touch.
Thanks for that feedback - I was curious how this would go over
Salemae will teach you how to make hook line calls
PLAYERS PICKLEBALL uses a system to measure sweet spot size.
Eddie, you should check out No Sweat hat liners
Beautiful bromance haha
52:39 casual tweener
Eddie what hat are you wearing?
That’s the Volley Cap from Stack Athletics.
Question: JK, did you make/play drums on the intro music you use for the pod? We need some video of your kit and of you playing some drums!
That's funny - my parents asked me the same thing (if that's me drumming on the intro). It's not, but I do that fill a lot (which is probably why I chose the song, ha). Maybe some day I'll set up the kit again for a quick video, but man, it is SO much effort to record with 16 microphones
Search his drum channel, you won't be disappointed
Regarding your spiderchart. Have you thought about reversing the swing weight area so that lower shows deeper in that area? Then a paddle that swelled in that area would have a lower swing weight and it would be easier to visualize in relation to pop power etc.
Great video. John, what do you think of Hudef Viva Pro Gen 3?
Eddie in the grandstands sounds exactly like the commentators during Anakin's pod race in Phantom Menace
Thanks for your video. I have a Hudef Viva Pro Gen 3 and wonder how it compares to J2K?
Love the video. What's the difference between Hurache-X and Hudef Mage Pro?
It’s hard to believe reducing the swing weight by adding a several grams to the static weight would make paddle more maneuverable. I speculate the static weight makes a difference at some point.
It's not lowering the swing weight; only the balance point (the swing weight remains the same, for the most part). But yes, there will be a point where the static weight increase is too much of a tradeoff
so, how much does usap actually charge manufacturers just to have their paddles certified? i heard they charge per paddle?
if true, then this must involve a hell lot of money for usap 😊
Something like $2500 per paddle
@@johnkewpickleball wow !! sure hell a lot of money, i hope they won't kill small paddle manufacturers in the process .. and maybe they should give barney mc callum (if he still lives or his heirs if he's not) a huge portion of that money too ..
John, wont a super high twist weight start hampering flicks?
I think in theory, yes. But it's not something I've noticed. My flicks involve very little twisting. Check out the section on Ben John's tutorial on the flick, and watch where his paddle starts and stops. There's very little if any twisting along the center axis of the paddle, and it's mostly involving a movement that will be affected by swing weight:
ua-cam.com/video/pt3HWfs7YCs/v-deo.htmlsi=C39Q6XiuAssVwMak&t=416
Pls get rid of the Gearbox Pro Power, it's an unfair advantage with its power and can ruin the game
Stop…..buy one if you think they are that great!
@@123BV8I say the same thing with the Gen3 Joolas.
Paddle tech is perfectly fine where it is. No need to go further.