Funny thing is he was shook and was so afraid of a bigger flush that he needed to angle! I wouldn’t be surprised if he did fold if unable to see a card
Josh fucked up so bad. He bluffed … why engage in any conversation? Bro. Bro! And definitely do not play around and flip the opponent’s card. Ridiculous. No excuse.
I think Bart is spot on in the 2nd instance, the first instance I believe he is mostly correct; however Ben being upset at the fact he felt cheated is understandable, and Bart didn't agree with that emotion. Regardless if Ben won the hand, he still is forced to "trust" pokerbunny was not trying to angle him, and he clearly believes she was, which is reasonable for him to be upset at the situation. For someone with Ben's bankroll, the winning of the hand isn't of the only importance, the principle is important here as well.
@@26bisket Did you listen to Bart at all? Hell no JDogg doesn’t get to also flip his opponents card. JDogg made a bad situation much worse by demanding to see a card.
@Epictetus 35 Clearly? She appeared to be shaking after declaring all in. I think it was an honest mistake in the moment and the live stream pressure may have gotten to her.
The commentator and floor should be ashamed of themselves. Josh gets nothing from seeing one of JDog’s cards. Like Bart said, punish him with an orbit penalty or whatever, but gifting JDick the pot, after his cringeworthy self righteous whine about being the victim, is a pathetic limp wristed decision, and I can’t help but feel the fact that he was complaining the loudest contributed to the floor capitulating.
J dogg clearly took advantage of josh who definitely shouldnt discuss any agreements that might lead him to show a card when he s all in and bluffing. He seems to be maybe newer to the game and wanted to engange i some speech play that might make him look more confident/ strong in order to get a fold. For sure JDogg allowed him to flip over that card ( and made sure josh did it); thats a super dirty move to do that to a guy who is already all in and then argue to force him to show a card or forfeit the hand.
First of all, a grown man/woman should never go by the name “Poker Bunny” and or “J Dogg” … mistake number one. Secondly, I honestly felt violated on behalf of Josh in the process observing the floor give “J Dogg” permission to turn over his card. Absolutely disgusted.
The rarity of being an objective voice in poker is huge. As always, greatly appreciate the honesty, not letting anybody influence how you feel, and telling everybody. Those who are less familiar with the game really benefit from it! Keep it up Bart
WOW! What a horrible ruling on the TCH hand. 100% agree with Bart on his analysis. This is a classic case of a weak floor man who didn't take control of the situation and catered to the louder of the two. I was thinking it before Bart said it, but it clearly is an angle - by JDOGG. EDIT: After watching the "explanation" from JDOGG I am convinced this was not an angle by him. He flat out cheated.
Jdogg baited josh into making a tactical error by allowing the floor to make an egregious ruling. Shouldn't have fell for the trick. Bart is on point... As always What a great show and analysis. Josh made a bad play Jdogg is a liar and a sleazeball Commentators are boneheads
12:13 jdogg positions his cards and moves his right arm to give josh access to them, then watches josh touch them a few times. He’s clearly inviting josh to flip over a card. This is 100% an angle by him to get angry when josh chooses not to show a card. Josh gains nothing from seeing the card.
I don't think J-Dogg set the whole situation up as an angle. I think he honestly felt that Josh was offering him a situation where they would each show one card. I think the angle-y part of it was his over-the-top anger and reaction when Josh was like "wait no, why would I let you see one of my cards"
@@yikemoo It's not a fair trade though. Josh gains nothing by seeing J-Doggs card. He has no decision points left in the hand. At this point, his only play is table talk which is what all of this amounts to. J-Dogg has the same opportunity to use the table talk to his advantage without trying to leverage an unfair edge by seeing one of Josh's cards when he still has a decision to make.
Absolutely disgusting, I may choose never to play at TCH due to this poor floor decision. Flipping an all-in player's card before the potential caller has made a decision is absolutely insane. JDogg should be banned for life here and half the pot should be given back to the other player. Absolutely insane.
I was there sitting at the table during the live stream. The floor gave no permission to J-Dog to flip Josh's card over. J-Dog took it upon himself to grab his card and flip it over on his own accord
@@daviddreyfus2425 - That’s what it sounded like on the audio also - how clueless is this floor person - That should’ve killed J Dogg’s hand immediately for flipping a card in a LIVE hand without permission
Bart’s analysis is amazing. Commentator was firing at Josh without thinking and knowing what happened. J Dogg is absolutely angling. Josh said “might show” but J dogg said “allow to show”. English is not my first language too. I understand the difficulty for Josh to explain himself well and I feel sad he didn’t stand up for himself.
It's because the commentator is racist. There are many racist people who would support their own kind, even though they know they're supporting the oppressor.
Good for you for calling out JDogg on HIS angle. He was weak to not snap call and then to cry a river to see a card he was never promised to be shown. Real cowardly stuff.
JDogg is total sketch here. It was a total angle and the floor was weak in the decision. JDogg did agree to let Josh turn over his card. "Muck his hand" is a the most unreasonable thing that could have been done.
He’ll likely have a hard time winning going forward. I play with a player like that in my home casino. Buys in short and all the players trying to run him off as quick as possible. Just insufferable to play with and he gets mad, because he’s always getting stacked by rags. If I’m JDogg I would really be paying attention to what people are calling me with.
I was playing at Bay 101 in San Jose about 15 years ago when I was on the wrong side of what I consider one of the most egregiously bad floor decisions I've seen in poker and have not gone back to play there since.
But the floor said he couldn’t flip JOSHS card, then j dogg persists in his american cocky entitled tone and the floor bends to his arrogance and he flips it without shame. I wanted to punch j dogg in the face repeatedly on behalf of josh
This was the casino I was most excited to play at this summer because of all the action. This is like a nightmare it’s so unrealistic, I would never play here. I also would never be in that exact situation/ never would allow my hand to be exposed despite any terrible ruling. I would literally put my 2 cards in my pocket before I let that weasel make the floors decision for them. Idk if this was racism/stupidity/the floor choosing the squeaky wheel or a combination of multiple factors but it’s absolutely disgusting. Only way to make it right is to reimburse Josh for everything he lost, including what was in the pot on the river when he shoved and for J Dogg to not be allowed in any more stream games. Armenian Mike was banned from LATB streams for an angle shoot which was less disgusting than this imo, also at least Mike gave up the charade at some point and slid his rack over. Also that was for a lot more money than this. Just to be clear both the Mike and JDogg angles were equally disgusting and unacceptable but at least in the LATB case the floor got it right. You can find a more fair game at a Russian mob ran NYC underground club; “Pay heem. Pay dat mahn heese mahney.”
@@fiddynutz68 I said I’m not sure what factors exactly were the cause of the ruling ending up the way it was. When one persons native language isn’t English they are at a disadvantage when it comes to explaining themselves or anything. It happened here as well and because he was mild mannered and unable to properly articulate himself and is in a foreign country it likely was a determining factor as to why the floor sided with the loud mouth, far less mild mannered English speaking American who wasn’t going to accept anything other than his way and if you don’t think that constitutes a form of racism; I think you should reevaluate your outlook. The man who was essentially cheated here made a couple tweets after this happened to provide context for my opinions.
The poker bunny one was an attempted angle, but like you said pretty pointless and didn't achieve much. She was counting he chips for about 17 hours before saying all in. You always know roughly how much you have in your own stack. It was just a stupid angle because it achieved nothing, but it was angling intent.
Wow, I 100% agree that JDogg was the only one really "angling". That's insane Josh was already all in, there are no more decisions to make. Sure it's a giant miscommunication and shouldn't of happened, but JDogg essentially cheated.
Exactly. You can see from listening to Josh talk and from his comment that he is not perfectly fluent in English. How is it ok to negotiate a very advantageous deal for yourself with a non-native speaker and then whine to the floor when they stand up for themselves and don't abide by your ridiculous terms? What a scumbag. Also a shit poker player if he's going to even consider folding the backdoored flush there.
Couldn't disagree more. To say nothing changes when he flips his card is 100% wrong. When he sees the heart, he KNOWS JDogg has flush, and thus he changes his "acting". It's extra info to assist one Player... Josh. Also, it's ludicrous to claim language barrier on one hand, THEN argue you are the one who understood the discussion. Going further, I can't believe people saying JDogg obviously agreed. Where when and how? JDogg immediately said if you see mine I see yours.. JDogg FTW. You can't pick and choose rules mid hand. You can only rule on facts and evidence. The evidence (as I see it) is Josh flipped over opponents hand and adjusted his "hollywood" to suit to try to steal the win..
Also, let's not lose touch with the fact that Mr Struggles With English is the one who started the whole conversation. He did so safe in the knowledge his overbet looks super strong and yet JDogg was thinking. He now knows immediately (if he didn't already) that 9 high is no good, but more importantly he now knows that Josh doesn't have a small pair or A high ie he doesn't have a polarised light hero call, he actually has a hand. So Bart is arguing that the guy who makes a massive bluff can then commence speech play in his second language once he realises his opponent isn't snap folding, and THEN he can flip his card over and claim his opponent gave him permission without needing to reciprocate... REALLY????? 2 Clear angle shooters and Bart argues FOR both of them.... Hmmmm I think Bart wants to ensure these big game donks stay in the mix for him to collect from them. If I was a lawyer I'd argue conflict of interest here 😂
Josh clearly never has the intention of showing one of his cards when he is sitting on 9 high and neither is a heart. J Dogg's reaction is fairly scummy especially considering what's been pointed out with Josh already being all-in.
I saw the J-Dog and Josh interaction in a different UA-cam clip that was edited. I thought Josh was in the wrong in that edited clip, but seeing the full clip, I agree with Bart. J-Dog was the one who was angle shooting.
I saw the same clip. They left out the talk beforehand. It was a serious angle on JDogg's (what a name) part. Josh never agreed to turn a card but JDogg allowed Josh to turn one before any agreement. Straight angle. Having said that, never touch someone's cards whether they give you permission or not. Many casinos will kill your hand permission or not. Especially not in a situation where you get nothing out of it.
#1 is a good lesson for poker players who may be new to playing in person: even if someone invites you to, there's NO reason to touch another players' chips or cards.
The flipping of the cards thing was sort of BS but the general rule should always be never under any circumstances touch another players cards. If an agreement is made to show a card let the owner of that card do the showing.
It’s every player’s responsibility to protect their cards. Jdogg went so far as to let josh go eenie minie moe with his cards. He completely let him turn over one of his cards
The main lesson everyone would be taking back from this is the body language or tells from josh. This information is the same when ever my kids mess up and they don’t want to be called out. Clearly josh is not confident in what is going on. Garret from live at the bike will do this with time bank chips to learn your behavior and then steal your soul later on in the game.
wrong, a player cannot turn over your cards and it is not your own responsibility to stop someone doing so. It sounds like you're saying anyone at any time can turn over your cards and you must protect them, no
That could be the stupidest made-up/mis-interpreted rule ever, in cards. Imagine going before a judge, after you just shot or hit a person for touching your cards, and saying; well, the casino says that I have to protect my cards. Oh, the laughter of that alone would be priceless.
SO glad to see you point out that JDOGG is wrong here. I watched another video and felt confused by how the commentator(s) of the vid was defending him, thinking surely I'm not the only person who has noticed it is HIM angling if anything. Nice to see comment section here. Nice one Bart
I watched the same one and felt like I was taking crazy pills because they were attacking Josh rather than Mr. Scarf Indoors "J DOGG" who was clearly angling.
Commentator was right. They agreed to show each other one card. You cannot commit to an agreement at a cash game and go back on your word after you have taken advantage of the agreement. Josh is the one who needs to be banned.
@@vcraine I’d have to agree with you. The angle isn’t making Josh less committed obviously, because he’s all in. The angle is Josh creating un uneven playing field in the decision making of his opponent, skewing the evaluation by creating a distraction/disagreement. Players wouldn’t generally give up a free look at one card in Jdogs position without reciprocation, and while it’s unfortunate if there’s a language barrier, the agreement that was proposed at the table implied that each would be entitled to earning the same information from one another. If he reneges and conceals both of his cards after the agreement, it just muddies the waters and raises doubts by the acting player. Giving the all-in better an advantage beyond standard gameplay. I saw another situation recently that seemed like angling with Perssons the other day. Love him or hate him, he does bring energy to the table and he is quite effective at manipulating play with his table talk. However, his last move that night found him behind on the River, and action was on his opponent who was reaching in with 75k…Perssons throws his chip in before the acting better. He then pulls it out and I believe apologized and tells the better he can still put it in. Essentially, un-committing his call, but asserting he totally would call. Therefore the actual better in position is left having to decipher if it’s simply bad etiquette or an angle. The better was baffled and just checked…so Perssons lost the hand and pot but saved himself 75k and in turn costing his opponent the benefit of it. It seemed very coordinated on his part and if players repeat these actions they shouldn’t be dismissed as honest mistakes, they should be banned from legitimate play. We learn by our mistakes, repeating them is indicative of something else entirely.
@@vcraine Also, if Josh was sitting on a higher flush, going all in could and making the arrangement could induce Jdog to question his strength. Especially when he then refuses to show one of his cards. Had the floor failed to act as they did, there’s a legitimate question of his hand strength which could result in a fold by Jdog…however unlikely.
@@CuriosityQueue Persons is a POS and should not be allowed on any stream. If he is not angle shooting, he is being a bully. If I am running a card room, I boot anyone who pulls his kinds of nonsense more than once. I don't even think he is good for the stream.
First rule of poker. Protect your cards. If you let someone flip over your cards thats on you. How do you not snap that anyway? Let go of the purse strings Sally. Stop making the angle.
Well, he wasn't going to fold. However why wouldn't you agree to flip a card over? Especially if it gives you an advantage. I would have taken him up on that as well.
You can hear the audio when Josh is making the proposal and he CLEARLY says "if you let me see one of your cards I MIGHT consider letting you see one of mine." This was a disgusting display by J-dogg.
Classic overreaction. It happens every day in society. People take what little information they see and make presumptions without seeing or hearing all the facts.
@@JasonEmerson711 I agree . I hate that people do that. I try to hold back on things until I have some details. Especially at work. If I have some employees with a disagreement or an accusation I never jump to conclusions until I have all the information..
This video is a great example showing why Bart is as good as he is commentating on poker and these specific scenarios. The most important part of this video is the first 2:40 seconds. The backstory is so important here. If you saw this without understanding the 3-4 hrs prior, you could be sauded to think this was something it was not. Kudos to you Bart for always doing your homework.
Poker Bunny claimed it wasn't an angle and that she thought she had less. Before the all in she is staring directly at her chips, and she touches both stacks of green $1000 chips. It doesn't make any sense that she didn't know how much she was playing.
She did worse on LATB the night before. She had been going on about being up for days and being autistic (lol). Flopped the nut straight in a bomb pot, raised big, and goes "oh wait. I didn't mean .. Omg, I'm so bad at reads". No one called so it wasn't a big deal
Tanking that long with a backdoor flush is ridiculous enough. Throwing a fit after Josh is already all in is borderline insanity when we have video of him letting his card get flipped over. Never play with a dude in a scarf
@Bryan Smith Because Josh was denying that he flipped it over outside of some type of agreement. You can tell Josh has trouble expressing verbally what was going on (whether it's a language barrier or frustration overcoming ability to talk right). It's JDogg also lied to the floorman about the deal and how it was to be conducted in their agreement. THere's a reason why players at the table were split.
@@silentbovo1 the bottom line is that Josh should NEVER touch his cards. When that happens, nothing after it matters. His hand should be dead right at that moment
No angle by Poker Bunny. If you listen to her at the table for 5 mins you can deduce that it could be a common mistake for her to misjudge her stack size. TCH stream. I’ve played with both players. Josh is great for the game and the live stream. TCH should be sponsoring Josh to play because his action and personality. JDouche I mean Jdog basically put his cards out and let Josh pick one and touch his card. It wasn’t like Josh flipped the card over on the turn (which would be ridiculous) Josh had already acted so he gains nothing from seeing the 8❤️. JDouche gets all upset which is totally unjustified because he literally let Josh turn over his card. The fact that he then turned over Josh’s card which obviously gives him a massive edge in his decision. It’s not an Angle by Josh or JDouche . It’s just a mis understanding. JDouche didn’t angle him by flipping over his card . It’s just a dickhead move. He just said fuck it I’ll do it because he was upset he was in a tough spot. This actually really tilts me because Josh looks like the bad guy when in reality he is great for the game. We can also say that JDouche should have snapped called with a back door flush ESPECIALLY against Josh’s image. However, I have no room to talk because I’ve made very bad decisions on steam. My 2 cents
JDOGG did not angle. He cheated. Simple as that. Floor let him cheat. The casino owes that guy 1.5k. The floor ruling should never have been to forcibly show one of the other players cards that has no actions left. Especially when they didn't even review the footage for the agreement.
Honestly the fact that JDOGG didn’t just call is insane! Also, that he is so adamant that he gets to see his opponent’s cards. You can clearly see how Josh asks before touching JDOGG’s card, pulls his hand away then he flips it over. Also, that JDOGG don’t realize what a tell it is that Josh dont show his cards. It just makes Josh’s hand even more polarized. If he was bluffing with a flush blocker He’d willingly show it to discourage a smal flush to call. Now Josh either has two good hearts, both would discourage a call. Or a Nothing hand. JDOGG has gained information either way. But behaving like this to basicly Get to make a perfect decision is insane
Its not necessarily a tell. If Josh has nuts he woudnt want to show either to make it look like a bluff so I wouldn't read too much into it. However j dogg not snapping off backdooring the 5th nuts is super nitty. Dude is a karen with his cry rant
Completely agree with the J Dogg take. The commentator got the situation terribly wrong and should have thought about the situation for one second before reacting. He does realize thousands of people are watching this right?
Poker Bunny was clearly angling because if it was a genuine mistake, as a professional poker player she would have kept her poker face and act like nothing happened. Plus, given her hand, why would she be distraught that she went all-in. 100% angle!
@@davidw8249 yea she been in many camera but she still pretty bad on camera have you see her video. Most of the time she show her body like what she do on stream like seriously who still show her belly to people nowadays. When you are playing 10k pot you dress like you are still in high school. She have like 2 outfits from her other live poker stream and this one. She's not playing with her own money that's for sure.
@@tsze06 I’ve seen her before. She runs a poker vlog and she hustles for views trying to sit next to bigger poker celebrities. I don’t trust her one bit. I think she was hustling, even if 50% of it was subconscious. She did not play that hand in good faith. She’s been around, she’s played fairly high stakes before. She knows the rules.
This issue is very interesting for me, as a poker newbie. My opinion >> 25: 05 " josh gains nothing by seeing one of jaydog's card ... " WHY then did Josh want to see/flip over JDOG's card ?? If you flip over someone els's card .... get ready for the following : 1) If you have a gun; get ready to pull it out. 2) If you can fight ; get ready for a fight. else - Do NOT touch another person's card.
Just don't touch other people's cards . It's that simple. Plus is there a timers here. Bet already. What b.s. floor has nothing to do with it unless there's a no touch rule. There should be . Then that's dirty
Can we also all just take a second to acknowledge that it’s a pretty quick call and the fact that it’s this difficult to come to a decision to call says a lot more ab him than anything lmao.
Ben was an UBER DOUCHE after this hand…did you see when he snapped on Ron after Ron tried to showed him a hand after he folded? Acted like a total asshole as night went on
@@brianf7405 I understand not wanting a dude to stick his cards in your face all the time like you're supposed to GAF... but, holy overreaction Batman!
Wow sick angle by jdogg, the acting was pro level. He clearly let josh flip a card, and then the angle wheels start turning in Jdoggs head. Bart hit the nail on the head and the stream commentator was lost.
moment Josh turn over Jdog hand that action is in agreement turn one card for one card, when Josh said no after fact it looks sleezy/angle which made Jdog upset. Lesson here is dont talk or touch others cards even if invited to do so, leads to this kind of drama, both at fault
@@fomori2 lmao that's really terrible logic dude. You see Denzel in a movie and think it's real life? Or is it pro level acting? Lmao. You're a bufoon dude
In the second hand, I don’t think the floor permitted Jdogg to turn joshs card over. I think Jdogg realized that the worst that would happen if he did turn joshs card over is he would also get a 1 round penalty which is definitely worth it considering the magnitude of calling or folding that spot. Sitting out 1 round was worth winning a huge pot or not losing anymore in the pot
Absolutely J Dogg cheated. I would mind taking a 30 minute break if I can bank over 2K for getting an advantages, even though I didn't make decision yet. The guys is already ALL IN. His action is done. Josh is just innocent and naive to realize J Dogg putting an ANGLE job on him. It's an expensive lesson. In the future, don't play on a table is J dogg seat and expose him for who his is, freaking scumbag.
'get him out of here, he should be ejected from the game', discrimination at it's finest by TCH William when Jdog is the one who ASKED Josh to turn one of his card over.
@@anthonyf596 Perhaps you're right, but I just can't imagine he would say the same about Jdog if it was the other way round. Also William's tone with his comments were very spiteful, almost personal towards Josh. He should know that the action was already on JDOG and that Josh would gain nothing regardless of information coming alight.
Poker bunny has mentioned “I’m not trying to angle” 2 times in 2 nights. Strange because most people have never said that ever at the table. She pretended to muck a hand then calls the night before. Still undecided if she is just dumb or this is her angle.
I personally play with her a couple of times before, she is a pretty nice person but an amateur poker player, definitely not a pro. And this hand she went all in first before she said this is not a angle. Is it angling someone is you do something before action your move, not after the action? This is more like acting instead of angle someone to me.
Exactly Dan, it’s the same as giving off false tells except in a really stupid way. She isn’t trying to gain knowledge from the other player. Maybe intended, clumsy, not good for the game, but not a angle.
The JDogg Hand showed me several things. 1: JDogg is playing with rent money. 2: Poker is clearly not his game when he made his hand and has to resort to angling to make the call 3: there are gentlemen in the game and there are dirty Doggs in the game 4: incompetent floorman who tends to take the easy way out instead of making the right ruling 5:the commentator have never been to juror duty
Absolutely agree with the analysis. What JDum did was worse than an angle and pressed a verbal advantage on an opponent. Having played sports and cards in foreign countries, I know how important and difficult it is to advocate for yourself in a foreign language. TCH should impose a punishment on JDum as there is video evidence of their agreement. Gaining concrete hand information (seeing one of your opponent’s cards) when your opponent is all-in and then JDumDum flipping a card is equivalent to cheating. The ruling is absurd. I, too, will have serious reservations on playing at TCH with that terrible ruling. Whether we all think this is a snap call with a flush is irrelevant, as we do not know how often Josh bluffs/ commits all-in and multiple hands beat a ten high flush.
After hearing Bart's perspective of the second hand I actually can't believe I fell for siding with JDogg when I first heard about this. For anyone else who has changed their mind like I have this is an amazing opportunity for reflection and humility - what else could we be so certain about and also be just as wrong?
Absolutely the same for me. After I saw it the first time last week I was also on Jdogg's side simply cause for me they made the agreement, even if Josh only said "i might consider". After Barts point i kind of get that it was an angle by JDogg.
@@dougcronkhite2113 she shouldn't be at the table if that is what you honestly think. I called it before it all happened she should not be at the table.
@@dougcronkhite2113 Clearly an angle. I don't know what you're talking about. She has an extremely strong hand, and then says all in and plays the "oh nooo, don't call me I made a mistake" card. Fucking ridiculous.
angle or not, the dude is calling her shove knowing her stack. how can you angle if u r already ai??? with 1 other player in hand you can say whatever u want!
I will NEVER EVER go to ANY TCH ROOM ANYWHERE, I've been planning a trip to Austin for months, TCH is now completely off the list. This is how the dealers let people play? This is how the other players at the table let others act? This is how the floor steps in to correct a situation? This was beyond horrible, definitely some racism thrown in there too just because he's asian, this was DISGUSTING and EVERYONE AT THAT TABLE SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED!
I agree. What she did was not angling, but it was lame. Lying and deceiving your opponent is part of poker, but there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. And she did it the wrong way. It wasn't an angle, because she was already all in. But it wasn't right.
Josh: "let me help you" Jdgog:"you flip one I'll flip one" Josh: "That's to much information" Jdogg initiated the flipping which he states would have meant he was angling in Bart's interview with him. It's hard to hear on the video, but you can read his lips and now that you know what he said, it's obvious Josh didn't initiate the card flipping like jdogg claimed.
The way Jdogg says "now I get to see one of yours". He was definitely angling. I would have showed both cards just to get a tell. I saw this clip edited and the volume was low AF. Now hearing him expect to see a card still with time to act VS the other guy all in, is cowardly AF. If I ever play with him, I'd try to do this again. And we would have been boxing in the card room. 🥊
It was interesting to hear what you had to say in the TCH spot. I agree 100% that Josh has nothing to gain by flipping JDogg's hand over because his action is already complete. Not sure that I agree with the situation and the results either.
Regarding Josh, the moral of the story is to keep quiet after you've gone all in and don't play silly games that could lead to controversy. Only when the pot is awarded should you even contemplate touching someone's card, with their permission. Josh was stupid for even making the suggestion but Dogg demanding that the hand is ruled dead if one card is not exposed is very scummy 💩! In Poker Bunny's case, is a recent reg such as her really playing such a big game and not aware of her stack size!? Is she an air head or does she just pretend that she is and uses that to her advantage.🤔 I've seen her hand analysis on her channel. Don't trust anyone you don't know at the table and don't stomp off like a kid when you win a big pot. Use all the information available and make an informed but careful decision. 🐟 call, even if it was just a pot sized shove given the preflop and flop.
Bunny has also soon prior chipped up all her white chips to green. She 100% knew how many chips she had I just can’t see how she didn’t. I think part of her thing is to annoy him all night then angle him. She’s dodgy af imho.
A little awareness about Neurodivergence and Autism is called for here. I am neurodivergent too, I have ADHD, and sensory overload is quite common for me, even when I'm playing a game I have normally crushed before
So many backing josh but he caused the situation by doing something I've never seen attempted at a poker table. Why the fuck would you ever touch someone else's cards
Poker Bunny had two pair so my immediate thought she was basically saying oops because she was trying to act weak to get a call. Maybe I am wrong but how come no one mentions this? Or am I way off?
I think what is most surprising in the second hand is how the floor guy got punked by j cat and ended up doing what he said he wasn't gonna do. I would never play there again.
I mean in a way it is, because he initiated this entire kerfuffle. But jdogg continued the kerfuffle by allowing josh to flip his card. Imo they are both equally scummy, but the floor should not have gotten involved at all, hand plays as is.
What we all should really be confused about is that there had to be a breakdown of this. A player was all in. Who in the right mind would want to show a card if you had the nuts or not Side note. Loved your break down first time here. Definitely subscribing
@Epictetus 35 you can do whatever you want once you’ve committed. It was up to the other player. She was a bit stupid to overact like that but it’s within the rules for most live games, they allow table talk. You can say “gee I hope you don’t call me what a dumb play I made moving all-in.” But like 95% of the time when people act weak, especially if it’s some stupid overacting, they are strong. This guy was just tilted.
Jdogg ends up looking kinda bad if you really have all the context, and unfortunately for a lot of amateurs watching, and because of the commentator not really following the action in real time, Josh ends up looking bad, and so we got the apology. If JDogg was actually freaked out because Josh flipped his card over out of nowhere, he would have had a very different reaction. Obviously when the card was flipped over he knew what was happening, Josh just made the mistake of flipping the card himself rather than picking a card and having Jdogg flip it. I don't get involved in this stuff when I play for the most part, but in retrospect Josh should have simply stayed quiet, or for sure he should have had JDogg flip the card himself.
JDogg crying over Josh getting no info, (as Josh was already all in) JDogg just wanted free info as he was the only one gaining an advantage. Putz Move JDogg.
12:25 Go back and watch when the guy flips the card. J Dog never explicitly says he can flip the card and as soon as the card is flipped he says “Now you have to show”. Sorry, you can’t touch another player’s cards like that. You just can’t.
It’s a total angle on bunny’s part. She has performed the bunny in distress act several times! She talks strat all the time, and (less importantly) says LIKE the entire stream. To me, she’s using her act to tilt guys into doing exactly what Ben dies here. Ben knows he’s toast, but let his emotions win over his decision! I guarantee she bragged to her friends on this hand. 🎣 Berkey clearly could see through the wool she pulls over the table’s eyes on the Bike stream. Not a fan when she’s on stream. If I want to see bunnies in distress there’s other free sites to visit.
If Ben gets tilted because someone is 3 betting him all the time, maybe he should take up bowling instead. Part of playing poker is getting a base read on someone. Sounds like she is an easy read if this happens often...nothing to tilt about.
Very poor etiquette on Poker Bunny’s part. Ben has every right to be upset regardless of the hands outcome. Trying to convince your opponent you made a mistake to get a call is scummy behavior. Surprised she would pull that on the live stream. Lost a lot of respect for her. Agree 100% with Bart on the second hand.
You win ''dumbest comment of 2022 award''. Yea, poker is not about deception... You may wanna look up false tells, double reverses and a few other poker moves to trick your opponent to act weak or strong. You may wanna visit a poker room and quit the family kitchen table games.. If you lost respect for her, you must have no respect for any poker player.
Bart is wrong in the second game. The floor person explicitly says “that he would not penalize him in that moment. The penalty will be assessed later. He would sit out one round”. Therefore, J Dog decided a one round penalty was worth exposing Josh’s card. J Dog turned over a card accepting that he could only be penalized later but he would still be able to finish the hand. For the same reason that the action still had to continue after Josh flipped over an opponent’s card, the action still has to continue when J dog retaliates and does the same thing back to him. The floor judge didn’t allow the card to be turned over. J Dog just decided the risk of a penalty was worth it in that moment.
That is a ridiculous interpretation of what just happened. So you are saying that players can literally go and turn over another players cards mid hand if they are willing to take the penalty afterwards. "the risk of penalty was worth it in that moment" Absolutely retarded statement. Having to miss a round of a cash game is not a penalty, its basically a bathroom break.
So glad to hear your thoughts, Bart. I totally agree! Had an arguement in chat with a former floor manager on the TCH video who tried to tell me it is a rule that Josh's hand would be dead and it doesn't matter that it would not change the action. Glad this guy is a 'former' manager because lying about rules that don't exsist and ignoring the details would be a terrible way to manage a card room.
It IS true that in most casinos touching another player's cards deliberately would kill your own hand, so the the guy isn't lying nor is the rule made up. However, as with many poker rules, they are flexible to the circumstances and one clear, logical circumstance in which it becomes flexible is heads-up and with an agreement in place, as was the case here. As for this exact situation, it's just a shame Josh didn't emphasize the exact words he used when making the agreement; this would have helped the floor make a grounded decision.
@@noex100 With all due respect, Simon said that it is a rule AND it doesn't matter what the circumstances are or something to that effect. Show me a single Casino that has such a foolish rule without floor discression and I will be shocked. Further more Simon saw the video so knows Jdog let him do it. In Simon's own Casino there is a clear rule to protect your own cards and there is no stated rule that Josh's hand would automatically be dead without any floor discresion as Simon claimed. He did lie, but finding someone willing to lie to prove a bad point is like shooting fish in a barrel on the internet.
@@Declan4253 Floor always has discretion in such situations because, as you probably know, there is another rule (in Robert's rules and elsewhere) permitting the floor to make a ruling not perfectly conforming to the written rules but in the "best interest of the game" and spirit of fairness. All I'm saying is he is probably correct about the default rule. The default rules don't mention floor discretion because it would be redundant and is already covered by the catch-all rule mentioned above.
@@noex100 Thank you for the input. To me a 'rule' that doesn't need to be inforced by the floor based on their descretion isn't really a rule (at least not in the way the world at large views rules), but I see your point. Again, Simon was saying it was a rule and the circumstances don't matter - which I think you would agree is incorrect.
I disagree with Bart on the poker bunny hand. Even though the player isn’t confused about the actual stack sizes, she is purposely presenting her hand range as weaker. Her all in range is wider if she believes she only has $20,000 instead of $30,000 which will then induce lighter calls from a hand like KT. Is it just speech play gamesmanship? Is it an angle? I’d say it’s not a huge enough deal where she should be punished but it’s definitely a bush league cheap move. I wouldn’t have much respect for her if I was playing at the table. Get better at poker instead of trying some manipulative acting job. I agree with everything about the second hand.
My read is that she thought she had 20k, said all in, realized that she had more and put her foot in her mouth. She's aware how it came off and feels bad about it.
@@natepepin09 100%. She was obviously flustered in the moment. So she's either a world class actress giving an Oscar worthy performance to convince a guy on monkey tilt to call off light or she just made an honest mistake. Which of those seems more plausible?
Or she could just genuinely have thought they were a bit less deep. That guy has no right to whine about that, he's the fool calling off with such a weak hand there.
Josh absolutely did say if you show me a card I would "consider" showing one of mine. However, Jdogg clarified the agreement by re-stating that if he sees one of his cards he gets to see one. "otherwise I'm out". Then he turned over one of his cards. Bart should consider that Josh made the agreement fully intending to renege on it. When Josh realized his bluff wasn't going to work, he went to plant B in a desperate attempt to angle his way out.
100% accurate. The responses in the comment section are just ignorance to ethics. It doesn’t matter who gains more Josh made the choice to be an idiot so that’s on him.
This is a huge problem with these card clubs. There are floor people who have zero ability to analyze a situation in order to make a correct decision. I would love to know if Jdogg is a regular and also buddy buddy with the staff. I’ve seen many a bad decision from the floor because the dealer knows the player and so does the floor.
Notice how she moves her arm out of the line of sight of her chest, right at the point she pretends to be stupid and confused. That is the tell boys,...wise up.
great thinking. Few people would now think critically as you do. I like the analysis you have between josh and j dogg. That shows professional commentating
Poker bunny move was clearly intentional. Not in good taste but players acting like they didn't mean to bet so much is fairly common. Especially in lower stakes.
If you don't like what she did, then you shouldn't allow any table talk regarding hands. Pros won't be doing this often, but table talk is part of the game for a reason. She suckered him into calling with a weaker hand. But pokey psychology is wild. Did she all in with air and said that to try and bluff him off the pot? Does she have it and is trying to sucker him into a bad call? It's table talk.
I don't know if that was acting. IMO, she's not that smart. You always see her screwing up with handling the chips and her thoughts are like a pinball in a pinball machine. She's klutzy mentally and physically. I think she had a genuine brainfart. I do like how she set him up on major tilt though with the endless 3 raising leading to this hand. What a bad beat.
Josh said he didn't turn over the card. Of course, we could all see that he did. But I think this spot is where the language barrier comes in. Josh was simply trying to dispute what j dog was saying and didn't have the full arsenal of words at his disposal to explain his position. The fact that j dog used that to his advantage adds an extra layer of slime to his angle.
I felt that she was 100% angling. Whether it was a good or smart angle is irrelevant. Whether it worked or didn't is irrelevant, it's an angle. Should Ben have folded? Yes. But we're not talking strategy here, are we, I thought we were discussing ethics. It was an angle and unethical.
100% valid in poker. after all its a game of deceiving or trying to deceived your opponents. touching others people cards is unethical. any talking shouldn't be. it's mind and trick games and weak minds that can't handle it should't be playing poker.
I disagree. Jdogg says: "If you pick one I get to pick one. Do you want to pick one?" Josh picks one, then Jdogg immediately says: "Now I get to pick one." Josh was in the wrong for touching the cards at all, even if enticed. Even though Josh said "might" there is clearly some confusion between the 2. Josh should've pointed and made Jdogg flip it over. Then, you'd be right. If it's only a penalty to sit out, might as well flip everyone's cards over.
J Dogg wasting everyone's time when he knows he's calling with the flush is more egregious than the angle. What a tool.
Yes. If u you can't call there for the rest in that situation, you are so farking weak you just gotta go do something else.omg
Funny thing is he was shook and was so afraid of a bigger flush that he needed to angle! I wouldn’t be surprised if he did fold if unable to see a card
Josh fucked up so bad. He bluffed … why engage in any conversation? Bro. Bro! And definitely do not play around and flip the opponent’s card. Ridiculous. No excuse.
Bro I believe he was folding before he sees the card, he was desperate to see josh' card -- defo scared money josh shouldve just shut his mouth
what are you talking about? it was Josh who was wrong
Bart is spot on in both of these instances imo.
I think Bart is spot on in the 2nd instance, the first instance I believe he is mostly correct; however Ben being upset at the fact he felt cheated is understandable, and Bart didn't agree with that emotion. Regardless if Ben won the hand, he still is forced to "trust" pokerbunny was not trying to angle him, and he clearly believes she was, which is reasonable for him to be upset at the situation. For someone with Ben's bankroll, the winning of the hand isn't of the only importance, the principle is important here as well.
I agree, both analysed rather favorably
Cmon Andrew, a guy flips over your card and you’re not going to try and see one of his? Gtfo.
@@26bisket Did you listen to Bart at all? Hell no JDogg doesn’t get to also flip his opponents card. JDogg made a bad situation much worse by demanding to see a card.
@Epictetus 35 Clearly? She appeared to be shaking after declaring all in. I think it was an honest mistake in the moment and the live stream pressure may have gotten to her.
The commentator and floor should be ashamed of themselves. Josh gets nothing from seeing one of JDog’s cards. Like Bart said, punish him with an orbit penalty or whatever, but gifting JDick the pot, after his cringeworthy self righteous whine about being the victim, is a pathetic limp wristed decision, and I can’t help but feel the fact that he was complaining the loudest contributed to the floor capitulating.
J dogg clearly took advantage of josh who definitely shouldnt discuss any agreements that might lead him to show a card when he s all in and bluffing. He seems to be maybe newer to the game and wanted to engange i some speech play that might make him look more confident/ strong in order to get a fold. For sure JDogg allowed him to flip over that card ( and made sure josh did it); thats a super dirty move to do that to a guy who is already all in and then argue to force him to show a card or forfeit the hand.
His little performance is the most tilting thing I’ve seen so far this year
If Josh doesn’t get anything from flipping one of his cards, then why would he flip his opponents cards?
@@SCPokervlogs YES!!! This!!! The level of outrage he displays is teenage-drama-queen-esque
@@pepperidgedave Ding ding ding - someone who gets it. 👍
First of all, a grown man/woman should never go by the name “Poker Bunny” and or “J Dogg” … mistake number one. Secondly, I honestly felt violated on behalf of Josh in the process observing the floor give “J Dogg” permission to turn over his card. Absolutely disgusted.
I don't even see how they can or should enforce a side deal which is what that mess was since it sure wasn't poker!
The floor never gave permission, he did it himself. That's what players at the table said after.
The rarity of being an objective voice in poker is huge. As always, greatly appreciate the honesty, not letting anybody influence how you feel, and telling everybody. Those who are less familiar with the game really benefit from it! Keep it up Bart
WOW! What a horrible ruling on the TCH hand. 100% agree with Bart on his analysis. This is a classic case of a weak floor man who didn't take control of the situation and catered to the louder of the two. I was thinking it before Bart said it, but it clearly is an angle - by JDOGG.
EDIT: After watching the "explanation" from JDOGG I am convinced this was not an angle by him. He flat out cheated.
Clearly an angle? How about... clear, actual cheating and deliberate deception?
He lied to the floor and it's on camera. Shame on him
Yea, josh apologized too. Which I didn’t get. I dogg is a d bag.
Jdogg baited josh into making a tactical error by allowing the floor to make an egregious ruling. Shouldn't have fell for the trick. Bart is on point... As always
What a great show and analysis.
Josh made a bad play
Jdogg is a liar and a sleazeball
Commentators are boneheads
This happens all the time. People need to but tf up
Floorman is a coward and got strong-armed by fellow coward.
12:13 jdogg positions his cards and moves his right arm to give josh access to them, then watches josh touch them a few times. He’s clearly inviting josh to flip over a card. This is 100% an angle by him to get angry when josh chooses not to show a card. Josh gains nothing from seeing the card.
what a scumbag move from JDogg
I don't think J-Dogg set the whole situation up as an angle. I think he honestly felt that Josh was offering him a situation where they would each show one card. I think the angle-y part of it was his over-the-top anger and reaction when Josh was like "wait no, why would I let you see one of my cards"
@@yikemoo It's not a fair trade though. Josh gains nothing by seeing J-Doggs card. He has no decision points left in the hand. At this point, his only play is table talk which is what all of this amounts to. J-Dogg has the same opportunity to use the table talk to his advantage without trying to leverage an unfair edge by seeing one of Josh's cards when he still has a decision to make.
Yeah let’s just ignore josh lying being the one who flipped over a card
@@intrepidus3378 Yes, agree with you 100%. That's exactly why everyone here is losing it over J-Dogg's reaction because its so clearly out of bounds.
Absolutely disgusting, I may choose never to play at TCH due to this poor floor decision. Flipping an all-in player's card before the potential caller has made a decision is absolutely insane. JDogg should be banned for life here and half the pot should be given back to the other player. Absolutely insane.
Agree that was so unethical and an all out scam.
I was there sitting at the table during the live stream. The floor gave no permission to J-Dog to flip Josh's card over. J-Dog took it upon himself to grab his card and flip it over on his own accord
@@daviddreyfus2425 WOW! Holy fuck that's bad
@@daviddreyfus2425 - That’s what it sounded like on the audio also - how clueless is this floor person - That should’ve killed J Dogg’s hand immediately for flipping a card in a LIVE hand without permission
One of the scummiest plays I’ve ever seen. And one of the worst rulings. Times must be tough to do some shit like this over 1.5k
Bart’s analysis is amazing. Commentator was firing at Josh without thinking and knowing what happened. J Dogg is absolutely angling. Josh said “might show” but J dogg said “allow to show”. English is not my first language too. I understand the difficulty for Josh to explain himself well and I feel sad he didn’t stand up for himself.
Yi Long Mah*
It's because the commentator is racist. There are many racist people who would support their own kind, even though they know they're supporting the oppressor.
Bart is 100% right about the card flipping situation about the first situation why is it even a story
Good for you for calling out JDogg on HIS angle. He was weak to not snap call and then to cry a river to see a card he was never promised to be shown. Real cowardly stuff.
100%
Absolutely. What a pansie tank on a rivered flush.
This shit Is insane. What a piece of shit move. Complete idiots running the floor.
She angled. Bart is being an idiot.
JDogg is total sketch here. It was a total angle and the floor was weak in the decision. JDogg did agree to let Josh turn over his card. "Muck his hand" is a the most unreasonable thing that could have been done.
Scummy angle by J Dogg. Won the pot, but lost any respect other players might have for him.
He’ll likely have a hard time winning going forward. I play with a player like that in my home casino. Buys in short and all the players trying to run him off as quick as possible. Just insufferable to play with and he gets mad, because he’s always getting stacked by rags. If I’m JDogg I would really be paying attention to what people are calling me with.
He refunded Josh for the pot, allegedly. Good.
I would never play at tch Austin after this ruling. J dog angled hard and the floor backed him up. Insane
But Josh really didn't make it clear to the floor what the agreement was. Hence the ruling.
@@noex100 That agreement is irrelevant. Horrible ruling.
surprising such a bad poker room still exist
I was playing at Bay 101 in San Jose about 15 years ago when I was on the wrong side of what I consider one of the most egregiously bad floor decisions I've seen in poker and have not gone back to play there since.
But the floor said he couldn’t flip JOSHS card, then j dogg persists in his american cocky entitled tone and the floor bends to his arrogance and he flips it without shame. I wanted to punch j dogg in the face repeatedly on behalf of josh
This was the casino I was most excited to play at this summer because of all the action. This is like a nightmare it’s so unrealistic, I would never play here. I also would never be in that exact situation/ never would allow my hand to be exposed despite any terrible ruling. I would literally put my 2 cards in my pocket before I let that weasel make the floors decision for them. Idk if this was racism/stupidity/the floor choosing the squeaky wheel or a combination of multiple factors but it’s absolutely disgusting. Only way to make it right is to reimburse Josh for everything he lost, including what was in the pot on the river when he shoved and for J Dogg to not be allowed in any more stream games. Armenian Mike was banned from LATB streams for an angle shoot which was less disgusting than this imo, also at least Mike gave up the charade at some point and slid his rack over. Also that was for a lot more money than this. Just to be clear both the Mike and JDogg angles were equally disgusting and unacceptable but at least in the LATB case the floor got it right. You can find a more fair game at a Russian mob ran NYC underground club; “Pay heem. Pay dat mahn heese mahney.”
Lmao racism? I get why he's pissed he definitely thought he would be seeing a card if his was turned over, the other dude recanted.
@@fiddynutz68 I said I’m not sure what factors exactly were the cause of the ruling ending up the way it was. When one persons native language isn’t English they are at a disadvantage when it comes to explaining themselves or anything. It happened here as well and because he was mild mannered and unable to properly articulate himself and is in a foreign country it likely was a determining factor as to why the floor sided with the loud mouth, far less mild mannered English speaking American who wasn’t going to accept anything other than his way and if you don’t think that constitutes a form of racism; I think you should reevaluate your outlook. The man who was essentially cheated here made a couple tweets after this happened to provide context for my opinions.
The poker bunny one was an attempted angle, but like you said pretty pointless and didn't achieve much. She was counting he chips for about 17 hours before saying all in. You always know roughly how much you have in your own stack. It was just a stupid angle because it achieved nothing, but it was angling intent.
Wow, I 100% agree that JDogg was the only one really "angling". That's insane Josh was already all in, there are no more decisions to make. Sure it's a giant miscommunication and shouldn't of happened, but JDogg essentially cheated.
Yeah J-Dog is shady!
I agree, 'dirty dog' ! 🐕💩💩💩
Exactly. You can see from listening to Josh talk and from his comment that he is not perfectly fluent in English. How is it ok to negotiate a very advantageous deal for yourself with a non-native speaker and then whine to the floor when they stand up for themselves and don't abide by your ridiculous terms? What a scumbag. Also a shit poker player if he's going to even consider folding the backdoored flush there.
Couldn't disagree more. To say nothing changes when he flips his card is 100% wrong. When he sees the heart, he KNOWS JDogg has flush, and thus he changes his "acting".
It's extra info to assist one Player... Josh.
Also, it's ludicrous to claim language barrier on one hand, THEN argue you are the one who understood the discussion.
Going further, I can't believe people saying JDogg obviously agreed.
Where when and how?
JDogg immediately said if you see mine I see yours..
JDogg FTW.
You can't pick and choose rules mid hand.
You can only rule on facts and evidence.
The evidence (as I see it) is Josh flipped over opponents hand and adjusted his "hollywood" to suit to try to steal the win..
Also, let's not lose touch with the fact that Mr Struggles With English is the one who started the whole conversation. He did so safe in the knowledge his overbet looks super strong and yet JDogg was thinking. He now knows immediately (if he didn't already) that 9 high is no good, but more importantly he now knows that Josh doesn't have a small pair or A high ie he doesn't have a polarised light hero call, he actually has a hand.
So Bart is arguing that the guy who makes a massive bluff can then commence speech play in his second language once he realises his opponent isn't snap folding, and THEN he can flip his card over and claim his opponent gave him permission without needing to reciprocate...
REALLY?????
2 Clear angle shooters and Bart argues FOR both of them....
Hmmmm
I think Bart wants to ensure these big game donks stay in the mix for him to collect from them.
If I was a lawyer I'd argue conflict of interest here 😂
Josh clearly never has the intention of showing one of his cards when he is sitting on 9 high and neither is a heart. J Dogg's reaction is fairly scummy especially considering what's been pointed out with Josh already being all-in.
I saw the J-Dog and Josh interaction in a different UA-cam clip that was edited. I thought Josh was in the wrong in that edited clip, but seeing the full clip, I agree with Bart. J-Dog was the one who was angle shooting.
Yes he kinda did. But never touch a card of an opponent even if he agrees. Your word is nothing when it comes to the rules at the end.
Same here ... watched the TCH clip last night and read Josh's apology in comments.... j dog's a NIT/🤡
Jdogg? More like J douche
I saw the same clip. They left out the talk beforehand. It was a serious angle on JDogg's (what a name) part. Josh never agreed to turn a card but JDogg allowed Josh to turn one before any agreement. Straight angle. Having said that, never touch someone's cards whether they give you permission or not. Many casinos will kill your hand permission or not. Especially not in a situation where you get nothing out of it.
dog is obviously a clown not fit to play those things, again J-Dawg you're a clown
#1 is a good lesson for poker players who may be new to playing in person: even if someone invites you to, there's NO reason to touch another players' chips or cards.
The flipping of the cards thing was sort of BS but the general rule should always be never under any circumstances touch another players cards. If an agreement is made to show a card let the owner of that card do the showing.
Nice analysis Bart. Sad that many will dump on Josh without even thinking this through. J Dogg playing the victim here is a joke.
It’s every player’s responsibility to protect their cards. Jdogg went so far as to let josh go eenie minie moe with his cards. He completely let him turn over one of his cards
The main lesson everyone would be taking back from this is the body language or tells from josh. This information is the same when ever my kids mess up and they don’t want to be called out. Clearly josh is not confident in what is going on. Garret from live at the bike will do this with time bank chips to learn your behavior and then steal your soul later on in the game.
@@jameswill9527 Agreed. Doesn't really matter though, 99.9% of people are calling here.
wrong, a player cannot turn over your cards and it is not your own responsibility to stop someone doing so. It sounds like you're saying anyone at any time can turn over your cards and you must protect them, no
@@genapp3603 Hell sounds like the Wild West there. Son you and me are now going to peel the leather if you touch them there cards. Lol!
That could be the stupidest made-up/mis-interpreted rule ever, in cards.
Imagine going before a judge, after you just shot or hit a person for touching your cards, and saying; well, the casino says that I have to protect my cards.
Oh, the laughter of that alone would be priceless.
SO glad to see you point out that JDOGG is wrong here. I watched another video and felt confused by how the commentator(s) of the vid was defending him, thinking surely I'm not the only person who has noticed it is HIM angling if anything. Nice to see comment section here. Nice one Bart
I watched the same one and felt like I was taking crazy pills because they were attacking Josh rather than Mr. Scarf Indoors "J DOGG" who was clearly angling.
Commentator was right. They agreed to show each other one card. You cannot commit to an agreement at a cash game and go back on your word after you have taken advantage of the agreement. Josh is the one who needs to be banned.
@@vcraine I’d have to agree with you. The angle isn’t making Josh less committed obviously, because he’s all in. The angle is Josh creating un uneven playing field in the decision making of his opponent, skewing the evaluation by creating a distraction/disagreement. Players wouldn’t generally give up a free look at one card in Jdogs position without reciprocation, and while it’s unfortunate if there’s a language barrier, the agreement that was proposed at the table implied that each would be entitled to earning the same information from one another. If he reneges and conceals both of his cards after the agreement, it just muddies the waters and raises doubts by the acting player. Giving the all-in better an advantage beyond standard gameplay. I saw another situation recently that seemed like angling with Perssons the other day. Love him or hate him, he does bring energy to the table and he is quite effective at manipulating play with his table talk. However, his last move that night found him behind on the River, and action was on his opponent who was reaching in with 75k…Perssons throws his chip in before the acting better. He then pulls it out and I believe apologized and tells the better he can still put it in. Essentially, un-committing his call, but asserting he totally would call. Therefore the actual better in position is left having to decipher if it’s simply bad etiquette or an angle. The better was baffled and just checked…so Perssons lost the hand and pot but saved himself 75k and in turn costing his opponent the benefit of it. It seemed very coordinated on his part and if players repeat these actions they shouldn’t be dismissed as honest mistakes, they should be banned from legitimate play. We learn by our mistakes, repeating them is indicative of something else entirely.
@@vcraine Also, if Josh was sitting on a higher flush, going all in could and making the arrangement could induce Jdog to question his strength. Especially when he then refuses to show one of his cards. Had the floor failed to act as they did, there’s a legitimate question of his hand strength which could result in a fold by Jdog…however unlikely.
@@CuriosityQueue Persons is a POS and should not be allowed on any stream. If he is not angle shooting, he is being a bully. If I am running a card room, I boot anyone who pulls his kinds of nonsense more than once. I don't even think he is good for the stream.
Poker bunny’s “All-in oh wait”…. Was so staged. When Ben calls she flips over her cards faster than he puts a chip in 😂
The rare "Hollywood angle"
Exactly, which is why I didn’t understand why Bart gave Ben shit. He had all the right to be frustrated
@@dl5066 Boob power,some men cant overcome it
I don't believe she did anything wrong. It's classic I'm strong going to act weak behavior. Should have been an obvious fold.
@@counterweightshenanigans2808 Pls google angle shooting. Not against the rule but a terribly low move.
First rule of poker. Protect your cards. If you let someone flip over your cards thats on you. How do you not snap that anyway? Let go of the purse strings Sally. Stop making the angle.
The real angle here is JDogg thinking he would ever fold a backdoor flush there. He’s angling his own ego
Coming off like a drama queen. Is the male version of a Karen a Kevin?
Well, he wasn't going to fold. However why wouldn't you agree to flip a card over? Especially if it gives you an advantage. I would have taken him up on that as well.
You can hear the audio when Josh is making the proposal and he CLEARLY says "if you let me see one of your cards I MIGHT consider letting you see one of mine." This was a disgusting display by J-dogg.
The most cringe part of everything is the announcer...ready to kill a player and ban for life with out all the details of the situation.
Probably had a piece of the other guy
Needs to be removed from the booth!!
Classic overreaction. It happens every day in society. People take what little information they see and make presumptions without seeing or hearing all the facts.
@@JasonEmerson711 I agree . I hate that people do that. I try to hold back on things until I have some details. Especially at work. If I have some employees with a disagreement or an accusation I never jump to conclusions until I have all the information..
JDogg should serve a ban. Really disgusting. Casino should compensate Josh. The floor manager was the wheelman for a drive by. Horrible.
This video is a great example showing why Bart is as good as he is commentating on poker and these specific scenarios. The most important part of this video is the first 2:40 seconds. The backstory is so important here. If you saw this without understanding the 3-4 hrs prior, you could be sauded to think this was something it was not. Kudos to you Bart for always doing your homework.
Poker Bunny claimed it wasn't an angle and that she thought she had less. Before the all in she is staring directly at her chips, and she touches both stacks of green $1000 chips. It doesn't make any sense that she didn't know how much she was playing.
She had literally just colored up all her chips to 1k chips. She's either dumb as a bag of rocks, or angling. There's no in between.
@Duncan Donut Donut The entire song and dance after she said all in including saying "this isn't an angle" seems a lot like an angle imo
She did worse on LATB the night before. She had been going on about being up for days and being autistic (lol). Flopped the nut straight in a bomb pot, raised big, and goes "oh wait. I didn't mean .. Omg, I'm so bad at reads". No one called so it wasn't a big deal
She had also chipped up to all green chips not long before this clip. 100% an angle. She’s really strange.
Also when she turned her cards over after dude called, her body language screams "lmao gotcha!"
Tanking that long with a backdoor flush is ridiculous enough. Throwing a fit after Josh is already all in is borderline insanity when we have video of him letting his card get flipped over. Never play with a dude in a scarf
@Bryan Smith Because Josh was denying that he flipped it over outside of some type of agreement. You can tell Josh has trouble expressing verbally what was going on (whether it's a language barrier or frustration overcoming ability to talk right). It's JDogg also lied to the floorman about the deal and how it was to be conducted in their agreement. THere's a reason why players at the table were split.
Always play with someone who has scarf. They are very fishy.
@@silentbovo1 the half that support J dogg did not even Josh already ALL IN and probably didn't realize J Dogg was putting up an angle job on Josh.
@@silentbovo1 the bottom line is that Josh should NEVER touch his cards. When that happens, nothing after it matters. His hand should be dead right at that moment
Very true. The ruling by floor is completely wrong.
No angle by Poker Bunny. If you listen to her at the table for 5 mins you can deduce that it could be a common mistake for her to misjudge her stack size.
TCH stream. I’ve played with both players. Josh is great for the game and the live stream. TCH should be sponsoring Josh to play because his action and personality. JDouche I mean Jdog basically put his cards out and let Josh pick one and touch his card. It wasn’t like Josh flipped the card over on the turn (which would be ridiculous) Josh had already acted so he gains nothing from seeing the 8❤️. JDouche gets all upset which is totally unjustified because he literally let Josh turn over his card. The fact that he then turned over Josh’s card which obviously gives him a massive edge in his decision. It’s not an Angle by Josh or JDouche . It’s just a mis understanding. JDouche didn’t angle him by flipping over his card . It’s just a dickhead move. He just said fuck it I’ll do it because he was upset he was in a tough spot. This actually really tilts me because Josh looks like the bad guy when in reality he is great for the game.
We can also say that JDouche should have snapped called with a back door flush ESPECIALLY against Josh’s image. However, I have no room to talk because I’ve made very bad decisions on steam.
My 2 cents
Big thanks for the first hand input.
First thing I would say if I were the floor is "this is poker, not peek-a-boo. Protect your cards is a universal rule. Call or fold, snoop Dogg."
JDOGG did not angle. He cheated. Simple as that. Floor let him cheat. The casino owes that guy 1.5k. The floor ruling should never have been to forcibly show one of the other players cards that has no actions left. Especially when they didn't even review the footage for the agreement.
Honestly the fact that JDOGG didn’t just call is insane! Also, that he is so adamant that he gets to see his opponent’s cards. You can clearly see how Josh asks before touching JDOGG’s card, pulls his hand away then he flips it over.
Also, that JDOGG don’t realize what a tell it is that Josh dont show his cards. It just makes Josh’s hand even more polarized. If he was bluffing with a flush blocker He’d willingly show it to discourage a smal flush to call. Now Josh either has two good hearts, both would discourage a call. Or a Nothing hand. JDOGG has gained information either way. But behaving like this to basicly Get to make a perfect decision is insane
Its not necessarily a tell. If Josh has nuts he woudnt want to show either to make it look like a bluff so I wouldn't read too much into it. However j dogg not snapping off backdooring the 5th nuts is super nitty. Dude is a karen with his cry rant
jdogg was playing with scared money, thats why.
Completely agree with the J Dogg take. The commentator got the situation terribly wrong and should have thought about the situation for one second before reacting. He does realize thousands of people are watching this right?
Those announcers are God awful. Only reason I don't watch the streams.
Thousands is putting it mildly -- Probably upwards of 50-100 thousand.
Poker Bunny was clearly angling because if it was a genuine mistake, as a professional poker player she would have kept her poker face and act like nothing happened. Plus, given her hand, why would she be distraught that she went all-in. 100% angle!
Maybe she's not used to the camera but she's not angling she's just inexperience to the whole situation
@@tsze06 White knight simping fools... She is NOT use to camera? Shes been on many live streams and shes definitely used to attention... LOL
@@davidw8249 yea she been in many camera but she still pretty bad on camera have you see her video. Most of the time she show her body like what she do on stream like seriously who still show her belly to people nowadays. When you are playing 10k pot you dress like you are still in high school. She have like 2 outfits from her other live poker stream and this one. She's not playing with her own money that's for sure.
She had also chipped up all her chips to green not long prior. She 100% knew how much she had.
@@tsze06 I’ve seen her before. She runs a poker vlog and she hustles for views trying to sit next to bigger poker celebrities.
I don’t trust her one bit. I think she was hustling, even if 50% of it was subconscious. She did not play that hand in good faith.
She’s been around, she’s played fairly high stakes before. She knows the rules.
never go to Texas Card House is what I learned from the lesson, thank you Bart.
This issue is very interesting for me, as a poker newbie.
My opinion >>
25: 05 " josh gains nothing by
seeing one of jaydog's card ... "
WHY then did Josh want to see/flip over JDOG's card ??
If you flip over someone els's card .... get ready for the following :
1) If you have a gun; get ready to pull it out.
2) If you can fight ; get ready for a fight.
else - Do NOT touch another person's card.
The fact that J Dogg is doing this with the virtual nuts makes it that much more insane. J Dogg is 100% in the wrong
AhTh?
@@oma15 a back door flush is so strong you just have to pay him if he has it
Kudos to Bart for recognizing j dogg as a scum bag angler, pre meditates at that
Did you not watch the video? The opposite
Oh I see the edit, nvm
JDOGG had no idea he was going to be exposed as a scumbag in front of thousands of people. HAHA, he's never going to live this down.
Scumbags usually don't care. Unless they suffer consequences. Which is up to the rest of us.
@@The20thHijacker Which is why scumbags will continue to scumbag
Also. Love Bart’s explanation. Man he’s such a good analyzer and always make absolute sense!
Just don't touch other people's cards . It's that simple. Plus is there a timers here. Bet already. What b.s. floor has nothing to do with it unless there's a no touch rule. There should be . Then that's dirty
Can we also all just take a second to acknowledge that it’s a pretty quick call and the fact that it’s this difficult to come to a decision to call says a lot more ab him than anything lmao.
I thought the same. Slowroll imo. Nit that could be seen from space.
Fist pump snap call
scared money
Very scared
The poker Bunny hand was absolutely an angle. I was originally happy she ended up losing but then dude acted like a little crybaby.
Ben was an UBER DOUCHE after this hand…did you see when he snapped on Ron after Ron tried to showed him a hand after he folded? Acted like a total asshole as night went on
@@brianf7405 I understand not wanting a dude to stick his cards in your face all the time like you're supposed to GAF... but, holy overreaction Batman!
Wow sick angle by jdogg, the acting was pro level. He clearly let josh flip a card, and then the angle wheels start turning in Jdoggs head. Bart hit the nail on the head and the stream commentator was lost.
moment Josh turn over Jdog hand that action is in agreement turn one card for one card, when Josh said no after fact it looks sleezy/angle which made Jdog upset. Lesson here is dont talk or touch others cards even if invited to do so, leads to this kind of drama, both at fault
"Wow sick angle by jdogg, the acting was pro level."--
If it was "pro level", you wouldnt have realized it was acting.
Yeah JDogg even says "He touched my cards!" after exposing his cards and offering them to his opponent. Come on..
I would have smashed jdogg and be happy to be banned from that place! If I ever see him live then I'll take a banning for team Josh.
@@fomori2 lmao that's really terrible logic dude. You see Denzel in a movie and think it's real life? Or is it pro level acting? Lmao. You're a bufoon dude
A grown man wearing a scarf is a male Karen indicator
In the second hand, I don’t think the floor permitted Jdogg to turn joshs card over. I think Jdogg realized that the worst that would happen if he did turn joshs card over is he would also get a 1 round penalty which is definitely worth it considering the magnitude of calling or folding that spot. Sitting out 1 round was worth winning a huge pot or not losing anymore in the pot
The penalty for flipping over a card when you can still act on it should be much higher.
Absolutely J Dogg cheated. I would mind taking a 30 minute break if I can bank over 2K for getting an advantages, even though I didn't make decision yet. The guys is already ALL IN. His action is done. Josh is just innocent and naive to realize J Dogg putting an ANGLE job on him. It's an expensive lesson. In the future, don't play on a table is J dogg seat and expose him for who his is, freaking scumbag.
'get him out of here, he should be ejected from the game', discrimination at it's finest by TCH William when Jdog is the one who ASKED Josh to turn one of his card over.
Agreed this is definitely racism at play here.
Honestly felt like a combination of racism and sidling up with his buddy
Commentator should be removed from his position... he sucks
Not sure its wise to say its racist, but hes definitely wrong
@@anthonyf596 Perhaps you're right, but I just can't imagine he would say the same about Jdog if it was the other way round. Also William's tone with his comments were very spiteful, almost personal towards Josh. He should know that the action was already on JDOG and that Josh would gain nothing regardless of information coming alight.
Poker bunny has mentioned “I’m not trying to angle” 2 times in 2 nights. Strange because most people have never said that ever at the table. She pretended to muck a hand then calls the night before. Still undecided if she is just dumb or this is her angle.
I personally play with her a couple of times before, she is a pretty nice person but an amateur poker player, definitely not a pro. And this hand she went all in first before she said this is not a angle. Is it angling someone is you do something before action your move, not after the action? This is more like acting instead of angle someone to me.
Exactly Dan, it’s the same as giving off false tells except in a really stupid way. She isn’t trying to gain knowledge from the other player. Maybe intended, clumsy, not good for the game, but not a angle.
She is a wee bit dumb and still new to poker. I’ve played with her.
She is a professional poker player……
@@jakethefish3558 in 2022 she has been paying other people to play poker. She certainly isn’t getting paid.
The JDogg Hand showed me several things. 1: JDogg is playing with rent money. 2: Poker is clearly not his game when he made his hand and has to resort to angling to make the call 3: there are gentlemen in the game and there are dirty Doggs in the game 4: incompetent floorman who tends to take the easy way out instead of making the right ruling 5:the commentator have never been to juror duty
Small correction: Josh is playing with rent money that he normally uses on meth.
Absolutely agree with the analysis. What JDum did was worse than an angle and pressed a verbal advantage on an opponent. Having played sports and cards in foreign countries, I know how important and difficult it is to advocate for yourself in a foreign language.
TCH should impose a punishment on JDum as there is video evidence of their agreement. Gaining concrete hand information (seeing one of your opponent’s cards) when your opponent is all-in and then JDumDum flipping a card is equivalent to cheating.
The ruling is absurd. I, too, will have serious reservations on playing at TCH with that terrible ruling.
Whether we all think this is a snap call with a flush is irrelevant, as we do not know how often Josh bluffs/ commits all-in and multiple hands beat a ten high flush.
She tried to angle him.... Karma caught up! As a poker player we know how much money we have unless we misplace a chip or two.
After hearing Bart's perspective of the second hand I actually can't believe I fell for siding with JDogg when I first heard about this.
For anyone else who has changed their mind like I have this is an amazing opportunity for reflection and humility - what else could we be so certain about and also be just as wrong?
Ahh, the true mark of intelligence is being able to gather information, and make a decision, even if it doesnt correlate with your original sentiment.
Absolutely the same for me. After I saw it the first time last week I was also on Jdogg's side simply cause for me they made the agreement, even if Josh only said "i might consider". After Barts point i kind of get that it was an angle by JDogg.
You're referring to the moon landing aren't you?
@@dalekerr5091 Haha
I didn’t even have to hear them speak. The guy is ALL IN. He can’t gain any info. Can’t turn up his card because the other guy asks lol
Poker Bunny’s “This isn’t an angle or something” was faker than her eyelashes! 😂
If you've watched her play before, you'd see she's just not that bright.. and I don't think it's an angle.
@@dougcronkhite2113 she shouldn't be at the table if that is what you honestly think. I called it before it all happened she should not be at the table.
@@dougcronkhite2113 Clearly an angle. I don't know what you're talking about.
She has an extremely strong hand, and then says all in and plays the "oh nooo, don't call me I made a mistake" card. Fucking ridiculous.
angle or not, the dude is calling her shove knowing her stack. how can you angle if u r already ai???
with 1 other player in hand you can say whatever u want!
*** More fake
Whenever someone says this isn’t an angle, it’s for sure an angle
Back door flush is an instant call
I will NEVER EVER go to ANY TCH ROOM ANYWHERE, I've been planning a trip to Austin for months, TCH is now completely off the list. This is how the dealers let people play? This is how the other players at the table let others act? This is how the floor steps in to correct a situation? This was beyond horrible, definitely some racism thrown in there too just because he's asian, this was DISGUSTING and EVERYONE AT THAT TABLE SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED!
That counterfeit with the river 5 was justice.
I agree. What she did was not angling, but it was lame.
Lying and deceiving your opponent is part of poker, but there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. And she did it the wrong way. It wasn't an angle, because she was already all in. But it wasn't right.
agree, I'm very happy she got stacked.
@@dalekerr5091 i would definitely love to stack her as well, on a different kind of table...
I've watched this "Bunny" a few times. Her act is a goofy one. She can't possibly be be the airhead she portrays. Bart, you are way to kind.
I am not sure if she is just dumb or if she is acting
@@fsufan same but googoogaga milk
@@massivekillerorb they are nice but she’s trying to distract you on purpose.
Commentator at hustler casino was big on her side too. Even before it all happened I called that she shouldn't even be at the table.
Lol she definitely is an airhead and didn’t mean to angle
Shame on TCH for letting this happen! Boycott TCH! The floorman should be fired for backing up angling.
Josh: "let me help you" Jdgog:"you flip one I'll flip one" Josh: "That's to much information" Jdogg initiated the flipping which he states would have meant he was angling in Bart's interview with him. It's hard to hear on the video, but you can read his lips and now that you know what he said, it's obvious Josh didn't initiate the card flipping like jdogg claimed.
The way Jdogg says "now I get to see one of yours". He was definitely angling. I would have showed both cards just to get a tell. I saw this clip edited and the volume was low AF. Now hearing him expect to see a card still with time to act VS the other guy all in, is cowardly AF. If I ever play with him, I'd try to do this again. And we would have been boxing in the card room. 🥊
Poker bunny’s is absolutely an angle. Doesn’t matter that ben won or that the price after her action was known, she absolutely angled him.
That's not an angle. That's just speech play. If anything Ben is helped because he gets extra information.
It’s not an angle. She’s just awkward.
Ben shouldn't have called anyway. He's calling with one pair for $31k. Lol
@@christopherebsch3766 ua-cam.com/video/F-tI041TLI8/v-deo.html
Yea just speech play right? Can’t do this type of stuff at the poker table
@@rodb.5801 1000% an angle.
It was interesting to hear what you had to say in the TCH spot. I agree 100% that Josh has nothing to gain by flipping JDogg's hand over because his action is already complete. Not sure that I agree with the situation and the results either.
Regarding Josh, the moral of the story is to keep quiet after you've gone all in and don't play silly games that could lead to controversy. Only when the pot is awarded should you even contemplate touching someone's card, with their permission.
Josh was stupid for even making the suggestion but Dogg demanding that the hand is ruled dead if one card is not exposed is very scummy 💩!
In Poker Bunny's case, is a recent reg such as her really playing such a big game and not aware of her stack size!?
Is she an air head or does she just pretend that she is and uses that to her advantage.🤔 I've seen her hand analysis on her channel.
Don't trust anyone you don't know at the table and don't stomp off like a kid when you win a big pot. Use all the information available and make an informed but careful decision.
🐟 call, even if it was just a pot sized shove given the preflop and flop.
Bunny has also soon prior chipped up all her white chips to green. She 100% knew how many chips she had I just can’t see how she didn’t. I think part of her thing is to annoy him all night then angle him. She’s dodgy af imho.
A little awareness about Neurodivergence and Autism is called for here. I am neurodivergent too, I have ADHD, and sensory overload is quite common for me, even when I'm playing a game I have normally crushed before
Wait, she has her own poker channel with hand analysis lol
So many backing josh but he caused the situation by doing something I've never seen attempted at a poker table. Why the fuck would you ever touch someone else's cards
Poker Bunny had two pair so my immediate thought she was basically saying oops because she was trying to act weak to get a call. Maybe I am wrong but how come no one mentions this? Or am I way off?
The last one was some sneaky foreigner shit
I think what is most surprising in the second hand is how the floor guy got punked by j cat and ended up doing what he said he wasn't gonna do. I would never play there again.
Pffft, as if his behaviour is fitting of a feline. Cats are well above this monkey business.
Bro J dogg did play victim LMAO 😂
Obv. this is not Josh's fault.
I mean in a way it is, because he initiated this entire kerfuffle. But jdogg continued the kerfuffle by allowing josh to flip his card. Imo they are both equally scummy, but the floor should not have gotten involved at all, hand plays as is.
JDogg is a bully. Thanks for putting him on blast. Not really looking to play poker with someone like that.
What we all should really be confused about is that there had to be a breakdown of this. A player was all in. Who in the right mind would want to show a card if you had the nuts or not
Side note. Loved your break down first time here. Definitely subscribing
The camera following Ben all the way through the casino after the hand 😂
JDogg is the nittiest angler I have seen so far..
Seriously. All he had to do was snap call... 🤦♂
Very smart analysis on both of these Bart. Agree with you on these. You are one hundred percent right
@Epictetus 35 you can do whatever you want once you’ve committed. It was up to the other player. She was a bit stupid to overact like that but it’s within the rules for most live games, they allow table talk. You can say “gee I hope you don’t call me what a dumb play I made moving all-in.” But like 95% of the time when people act weak, especially if it’s some stupid overacting, they are strong. This guy was just tilted.
@@afwaller ua-cam.com/video/F-tI041TLI8/v-deo.html
No you cant
Jdogg ends up looking kinda bad if you really have all the context, and unfortunately for a lot of amateurs watching, and because of the commentator not really following the action in real time, Josh ends up looking bad, and so we got the apology. If JDogg was actually freaked out because Josh flipped his card over out of nowhere, he would have had a very different reaction. Obviously when the card was flipped over he knew what was happening, Josh just made the mistake of flipping the card himself rather than picking a card and having Jdogg flip it. I don't get involved in this stuff when I play for the most part, but in retrospect Josh should have simply stayed quiet, or for sure he should have had JDogg flip the card himself.
How does this guy not snap call with a flush?
JDogg crying over Josh getting no info, (as Josh was already all in) JDogg just wanted free info as he was the only one gaining an advantage. Putz Move JDogg.
12:25 Go back and watch when the guy flips the card. J Dog never explicitly says he can flip the card and as soon as the card is flipped he says “Now you have to show”. Sorry, you can’t touch another player’s cards like that. You just can’t.
It’s a total angle on bunny’s part. She has performed the bunny in distress act several times! She talks strat all the time, and (less importantly) says LIKE the entire stream.
To me, she’s using her act to tilt guys into doing exactly what Ben dies here.
Ben knows he’s toast, but let his emotions win over his decision! I guarantee she bragged to her friends on this hand. 🎣
Berkey clearly could see through the wool she pulls over the table’s eyes on the Bike stream. Not a fan when she’s on stream.
If I want to see bunnies in distress there’s other free sites to visit.
So what poker players are the biggest babies around. Just play and pay attention.
If Ben gets tilted because someone is 3 betting him all the time, maybe he should take up bowling instead. Part of playing poker is getting a base read on someone. Sounds like she is an easy read if this happens often...nothing to tilt about.
The likes and the literally's are so annoying.
@@Frostified God forbid Garrett and Bunny on the same stream!
The amount of LIKES those two will say may change Einstein’s theories!
That TCH announcer actually makes me mad how he reacts.
The hand to forehead, lol, somebody needs lessons on not over acting.
Agreed. What a drama queen!
Very poor etiquette on Poker Bunny’s part. Ben has every right to be upset regardless of the hands outcome. Trying to convince your opponent you made a mistake to get a call is scummy behavior. Surprised she would pull that on the live stream. Lost a lot of respect for her.
Agree 100% with Bart on the second hand.
the nexzt hand when ron showed his hand and he stormed off man lol
The fact you ever had respect for a girl who calls herself pokerbunny you dont know much about girls.
So you’re saying it’s scummy To
Try to deceive your opponent in a poker hand?
You win ''dumbest comment of 2022 award''. Yea, poker is not about deception... You may wanna look up false tells, double reverses and a few other poker moves to trick your opponent to act weak or strong. You may wanna visit a poker room and quit the family kitchen table games.. If you lost respect for her, you must have no respect for any poker player.
Happens every day on every poker table. “Oh dear,looks like I’m all in” he says with a big frown on his face.
Bart is wrong in the second game. The floor person explicitly says “that he would not penalize him in that moment. The penalty will be assessed later. He would sit out one round”.
Therefore, J Dog decided a one round penalty was worth exposing Josh’s card. J Dog turned over a card accepting that he could only be penalized later but he would still be able to finish the hand.
For the same reason that the action still had to continue after Josh flipped over an opponent’s card, the action still has to continue when J dog retaliates and does the same thing back to him. The floor judge didn’t allow the card to be turned over. J Dog just decided the risk of a penalty was worth it in that moment.
That is a ridiculous interpretation of what just happened. So you are saying that players can literally go and turn over another players cards mid hand if they are willing to take the penalty afterwards. "the risk of penalty was worth it in that moment" Absolutely retarded statement. Having to miss a round of a cash game is not a penalty, its basically a bathroom break.
Loved the Josh and Jdogg break down. You are 100% right, I hope you told these idiots how they were wrong when you play back there
The second hand was beyond pathetic. It was a absolute disgrace by The way Jdogg acted and the ruling by the floor.
So glad to hear your thoughts, Bart. I totally agree! Had an arguement in chat with a former floor manager on the TCH video who tried to tell me it is a rule that Josh's hand would be dead and it doesn't matter that it would not change the action. Glad this guy is a 'former' manager because lying about rules that don't exsist and ignoring the details would be a terrible way to manage a card room.
It IS true that in most casinos touching another player's cards deliberately would kill your own hand, so the the guy isn't lying nor is the rule made up. However, as with many poker rules, they are flexible to the circumstances and one clear, logical circumstance in which it becomes flexible is heads-up and with an agreement in place, as was the case here.
As for this exact situation, it's just a shame Josh didn't emphasize the exact words he used when making the agreement; this would have helped the floor make a grounded decision.
@@noex100 With all due respect, Simon said that it is a rule AND it doesn't matter what the circumstances are or something to that effect. Show me a single Casino that has such a foolish rule without floor discression and I will be shocked. Further more Simon saw the video so knows Jdog let him do it. In Simon's own Casino there is a clear rule to protect your own cards and there is no stated rule that Josh's hand would automatically be dead without any floor discresion as Simon claimed. He did lie, but finding someone willing to lie to prove a bad point is like shooting fish in a barrel on the internet.
@@Declan4253 Floor always has discretion in such situations because, as you probably know, there is another rule (in Robert's rules and elsewhere) permitting the floor to make a ruling not perfectly conforming to the written rules but in the "best interest of the game" and spirit of fairness.
All I'm saying is he is probably correct about the default rule. The default rules don't mention floor discretion because it would be redundant and is already covered by the catch-all rule mentioned above.
@@noex100 Thank you for the input. To me a 'rule' that doesn't need to be inforced by the floor based on their descretion isn't really a rule (at least not in the way the world at large views rules), but I see your point. Again, Simon was saying it was a rule and the circumstances don't matter - which I think you would agree is incorrect.
Ignore that neanderthal, he's completely wasted your time.
I disagree with Bart on the poker bunny hand. Even though the player isn’t confused about the actual stack sizes, she is purposely presenting her hand range as weaker. Her all in range is wider if she believes she only has $20,000 instead of $30,000 which will then induce lighter calls from a hand like KT.
Is it just speech play gamesmanship? Is it an angle? I’d say it’s not a huge enough deal where she should be punished but it’s definitely a bush league cheap move. I wouldn’t have much respect for her if I was playing at the table. Get better at poker instead of trying some manipulative acting job.
I agree with everything about the second hand.
My read is that she thought she had 20k, said all in, realized that she had more and put her foot in her mouth. She's aware how it came off and feels bad about it.
@@natepepin09 100%. She was obviously flustered in the moment. So she's either a world class actress giving an Oscar worthy performance to convince a guy on monkey tilt to call off light or she just made an honest mistake. Which of those seems more plausible?
Or she could just genuinely have thought they were a bit less deep. That guy has no right to whine about that, he's the fool calling off with such a weak hand there.
@@connman8d617 she certainly has plausible deniability. Idk about world class acting 🤔
Red pill
Josh absolutely did say if you show me a card I would "consider" showing one of mine. However, Jdogg clarified the agreement by re-stating that if he sees one of his cards he gets to see one. "otherwise I'm out". Then he turned over one of his cards. Bart should consider that Josh made the agreement fully intending to renege on it. When Josh realized his bluff wasn't going to work, he went to plant B in a desperate attempt to angle his way out.
100% accurate. The responses in the comment section are just ignorance to ethics. It doesn’t matter who gains more Josh made the choice to be an idiot so that’s on him.
What tilted me the most is this entire incident was unecessary. 99% if players would have called within 2 seconds in Jdogs position
Yea at least everyone knows to bluff him.
The second ruling is insane. I live in Austin and a member of TCH. Will never play there again.
This is a huge problem with these card clubs. There are floor people who have zero ability to analyze a situation in order to make a correct decision. I would love to know if Jdogg is a regular and also buddy buddy with the staff. I’ve seen many a bad decision from the floor because the dealer knows the player and so does the floor.
TCH commentator is a effin TOOL... get him off the show
Notice how she moves her arm out of the line of sight of her chest, right at the point she pretends to be stupid and confused. That is the tell boys,...wise up.
...LMAO. Tells, tells, tells, every where there's a tell. She will admit to using tit equity and that's out in the open, not a tell.
great thinking. Few people would now think critically as you do. I like the analysis you have between josh and j dogg. That shows professional commentating
Poker bunny move was clearly intentional. Not in good taste but players acting like they didn't mean to bet so much is fairly common. Especially in lower stakes.
If you don't like what she did, then you shouldn't allow any table talk regarding hands. Pros won't be doing this often, but table talk is part of the game for a reason. She suckered him into calling with a weaker hand. But pokey psychology is wild. Did she all in with air and said that to try and bluff him off the pot? Does she have it and is trying to sucker him into a bad call? It's table talk.
I don't know if that was acting. IMO, she's not that smart. You always see her screwing up with handling the chips and her thoughts are like a pinball in a pinball machine. She's klutzy mentally and physically. I think she had a genuine brainfart. I do like how she set him up on major tilt though with the endless 3 raising leading to this hand. What a bad beat.
Josh said he didn't turn over the card. Of course, we could all see that he did. But I think this spot is where the language barrier comes in. Josh was simply trying to dispute what j dog was saying and didn't have the full arsenal of words at his disposal to explain his position. The fact that j dog used that to his advantage adds an extra layer of slime to his angle.
I mean if you read Josh’s comment he says that he misspoke because he doesn’t know English well
@@Phil1053Locket I didn't read it. I'll go back and check it. That makes sense.
@@intrepidus3378 he meant “I didn’t flip over his card…without permission [sic]”
I felt that she was 100% angling. Whether it was a good or smart angle is irrelevant. Whether it worked or didn't is irrelevant, it's an angle.
Should Ben have folded? Yes. But we're not talking strategy here, are we, I thought we were discussing ethics. It was an angle and unethical.
Clearly an angle... She's making it look like a weak or a halfheartedly all in... Begging for a call for damn sure
So is it against the rules tho?
I”m agree
100% valid in poker. after all its a game of deceiving or trying to deceived your opponents. touching others people cards is unethical. any talking shouldn't be. it's mind and trick games and weak minds that can't handle it should't be playing poker.
I agree with this 100% this guy claims he won but that’s not the point! It was a clear angle and unethical
If someone just reached over and grabbed someone’s card what would be the appropriate penalty?
I disagree. Jdogg says: "If you pick one I get to pick one. Do you want to pick one?" Josh picks one, then Jdogg immediately says: "Now I get to pick one." Josh was in the wrong for touching the cards at all, even if enticed. Even though Josh said "might" there is clearly some confusion between the 2. Josh should've pointed and made Jdogg flip it over. Then, you'd be right. If it's only a penalty to sit out, might as well flip everyone's cards over.
why would Josh ever agree to that though? ask yourself that lmao