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I wonder if there were people who would always claim to have NO moral or ethical beliefs at all, among these thousands of the examined patients, like antisocial elements, members of crime gangs, even killers etc.. Because it would be interesting to find out that a person who wouldn't feel any empathy in life, who would never think about other people's feelings, would suddenly be able to feel all the pain he/she had caused to others; where would they get the notion of good and bad etc at the moment they die, if according to the antisocial or sociopathic view of life, they were never able to feel or understand these moral concepts in their life?
It is easy reasoning, consciousness (thoughts, memories... etc) are not physical entities they don't have (energy, mass, charge, momentum, velocity, acceleration, etc ..) so they cannot emerge miraculously from (causally limited) physical things like electrochemical activity, They are not like na + cl = nacl Na is physical cl is physical and Nacl is still physical. Non-physical from the limited physical = something from nothing which is logically impossible if you aren't an omnipotent entity, only God can create from nothing because he is not causally limited. 😁
All Parnia is trying to do here is provide some kind of a mechanism (spikes of brain activity during CPR) for how this whole experience could possibly take place. Science needs a mechanism to account for out of body/external visual awareness and there isn't one. No one observing a patient's comatose/dead body see's anything leaving it, or floating above it and yet that is what is happening. The mind, the self = soul? somehow, in a way we don't understand and probably never will, becomes detached from the brain. If you can't accept this, then you have to deny or debunk hundreds (or now thousands) of reliably witnessed case studies from medical professionals, bearing in mind if just one of those cases happened the way they said it did, materialism is falsified. Personally, I don't think these spikes of activity are anything to do with it, because it contradicts his own previous work. In Aware 1, the 57 year old social worker who reported a remarkable out of body experience during an attempted catheterisation, described leaving his body before any CPR had taken place. So how could some spikes of brain activity during CPR account for that? They can't. Furthermore, those reported 'spikes' well into CPR from Aware 2 may have been something else, an artifact etc. So why has Parnia (who is an expert on all this) chosen to link NDE/RED to these spikes. IMHO, only because he is certain now that patients are actually having these experiences when they are dead and that is impossible according to mainstream science. And as he can't invoke disembodied minds (which has no scientific basis) or the soul (self) as a mechanism (obviously) he has been forced to use spikes of perceived brain activity in order to get his paper accepted for publication. Nothing has changed. Until he is able to capture a target hit (thereby proving consciousness can act independently of the brain) this theory will likely be utilised.
They are debunked by definition, they are anecdotes. Anecdotal testimony, despite being many of them, is pseudoscience. And what are you talking about regarding OBES, it's already been explained by neuroscience, look up the term autoscopy. OBEs are caused by a disturbance or stimulation to the temporoparietal junction/cortex. Nothing paranormal about this, purely a brain phenomena. That also explains why no one (other than in BS anecdotal stories that can't be verified) never, ever, see the symbols or pictures placed near the ceiling. They don't leave their body, they just think/feel they do. You seem to think that hearsay anecdotes from "medical professionals" equals some kind of evidence, despite the fact that these testimonies NEVER shows up once the patient is in a controlled study/experiment. Am I understanding your correctly?
Yes, but how to get freaking people, hospitals to start looking into this, its mega important. people cant accept it. i say its probably true, but without target
@@outcastpov9366 True but it's extremely unlikely that it's anything more than a brain phenomena. Whenever science tested this it's been falsified in real studies and experiments. Google "autoscopy" regarding OBEs. It's already regarded as a brain phenomena caused by disturbance within or to the temporoparietal junction or cortex. Science and especially neuroscience can explain a lot of this already.
@@outcastpov9366 Anecdotes for centuries without any other shred of evidence is basically worthless. It's an interesting brain phenomena though. The OBEs too, it's called "autoscopy", google it. Out of body experiences is caused by a disturbance in the temporoparietal junction or cortex. Science and neuroscience in particular pretty much solves this a long time ago.
The subconscious & unconscious is much more powerful than we think and they have their own judgements. Our subconscious and unconscious even affects us during life. Consciousness is just 3% of our thoughts, desires, wants, beliefs etc. Subconsciousness is 97%. We know all these things. I think this guy is mixing the fact that the brain can in some cases have its life extended to the complex systems in societies that affect humans and their actions, like for example poverty, socioeconomic inequality these situations define ppls brains & many of their actions. If you want better actions change the epigenetics & en environment ppl have to endure which shapes their brains. It is one thing to say the brain can live for some time after what we call death if given the right.chemicals. But it us very different to say that ppl that are brought back stress the importance of ethical behaviour. Usually humans are doing that even during life. You probably know about ppl in life that tear their brains apart after not being polite to another person. Our subconscious is 97% of our decisions. Some ppl seem to choose better coz they are in a better socioeconomic position. The system for many decades has pur many humans in a scrambling position for their lives. Why don't you ppl think in systems add the dots and listen to peter joseph? You would have a greater grasp in the real world not only on the academic & university world. INFO
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I wonder if there were people who would always claim to have NO moral or ethical beliefs at all, among these thousands of the examined patients, like antisocial elements, members of crime gangs, even killers etc.. Because it would be interesting to find out that a person who wouldn't feel any empathy in life, who would never think about other people's feelings, would suddenly be able to feel all the pain he/she had caused to others; where would they get the notion of good and bad etc at the moment they die, if according to the antisocial or sociopathic view of life, they were never able to feel or understand these moral concepts in their life?
Knowing this no one would opt for cremation.
Why?
It is easy reasoning, consciousness (thoughts, memories... etc) are not physical entities they don't have (energy, mass, charge, momentum, velocity, acceleration, etc ..) so they cannot emerge miraculously from (causally limited) physical things like electrochemical activity,
They are not like na + cl = nacl
Na is physical
cl is physical and
Nacl is still physical.
Non-physical from the limited physical = something from nothing which is logically impossible if you aren't an omnipotent entity, only God can create from nothing because he is not causally limited. 😁
All Parnia is trying to do here is provide some kind of a mechanism (spikes of brain activity during CPR) for how this whole experience could possibly take place. Science needs a mechanism to account for out of body/external visual awareness and there isn't one. No one observing a patient's comatose/dead body see's anything leaving it, or floating above it and yet that is what is happening. The mind, the self = soul? somehow, in a way we don't understand and probably never will, becomes detached from the brain.
If you can't accept this, then you have to deny or debunk hundreds (or now thousands) of reliably witnessed case studies from medical professionals, bearing in mind if just one of those cases happened the way they said it did, materialism is falsified. Personally, I don't think these spikes of activity are anything to do with it, because it contradicts his own previous work.
In Aware 1, the 57 year old social worker who reported a remarkable out of body experience during an attempted catheterisation, described leaving his body before any CPR had taken place. So how could some spikes of brain activity during CPR account for that? They can't. Furthermore, those reported 'spikes' well into CPR from Aware 2 may have been something else, an artifact etc.
So why has Parnia (who is an expert on all this) chosen to link NDE/RED to these spikes. IMHO, only because he is certain now that patients are actually having these experiences when they are dead and that is impossible according to mainstream science. And as he can't invoke disembodied minds (which has no scientific basis) or the soul (self) as a mechanism (obviously) he has been forced to use spikes of perceived brain activity in order to get his paper accepted for publication. Nothing has changed.
Until he is able to capture a target hit (thereby proving consciousness can act independently of the brain) this theory will likely be utilised.
They are debunked by definition, they are anecdotes. Anecdotal testimony, despite being many of them, is pseudoscience. And what are you talking about regarding OBES, it's already been explained by neuroscience, look up the term autoscopy. OBEs are caused by a disturbance or stimulation to the temporoparietal junction/cortex. Nothing paranormal about this, purely a brain phenomena. That also explains why no one (other than in BS anecdotal stories that can't be verified) never, ever, see the symbols or pictures placed near the ceiling. They don't leave their body, they just think/feel they do. You seem to think that hearsay anecdotes from "medical professionals" equals some kind of evidence, despite the fact that these testimonies NEVER shows up once the patient is in a controlled study/experiment. Am I understanding your correctly?
Yes, but how to get freaking people, hospitals to start looking into this, its mega important. people cant accept it. i say its probably true, but without target
@@Macceeebeing anecdotal means not very reliable but not debunked by definition
@@outcastpov9366 True but it's extremely unlikely that it's anything more than a brain phenomena. Whenever science tested this it's been falsified in real studies and experiments. Google "autoscopy" regarding OBEs. It's already regarded as a brain phenomena caused by disturbance within or to the temporoparietal junction or cortex. Science and especially neuroscience can explain a lot of this already.
@@outcastpov9366 Anecdotes for centuries without any other shred of evidence is basically worthless. It's an interesting brain phenomena though. The OBEs too, it's called "autoscopy", google it. Out of body experiences is caused by a disturbance in the temporoparietal junction or cortex. Science and neuroscience in particular pretty much solves this a long time ago.
The subconscious & unconscious is much more powerful than we think and they have their own judgements. Our subconscious and unconscious even affects us during life. Consciousness is just 3% of our thoughts, desires, wants, beliefs etc. Subconsciousness is 97%. We know all these things. I think this guy is mixing the fact that the brain can in some cases have its life extended to the complex systems in societies that affect humans and their actions, like for example poverty, socioeconomic inequality these situations define ppls brains & many of their actions. If you want better actions change the epigenetics & en environment ppl have to endure which shapes their brains. It is one thing to say the brain can live for some time after what we call death if given the right.chemicals. But it us very different to say that ppl that are brought back stress the importance of ethical behaviour. Usually humans are doing that even during life. You probably know about ppl in life that tear their brains apart after not being polite to another person. Our subconscious is 97% of our decisions. Some ppl seem to choose better coz they are in a better socioeconomic position. The system for many decades has pur many humans in a scrambling position for their lives. Why don't you ppl think in systems add the dots and listen to peter joseph? You would have a greater grasp in the real world not only on the academic & university world. INFO
Wishful thinking? I WANT it to be true, but we have to wait for the counter arguments.
This is the counter argument believe it or not.
Dude there has been u clearly haven't researched nde well enough within the skeptical community