Mozart: Symphonies Nos 35 "Haffner", 36 "Linz" and 40 + 3 Piano Improvisations (download only). Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie, Bremen, Tarmo Peltokoski (cond.) DG
That was a good and honest review! Too bad we always have to cope with the all the PR and promotional bullcrap when it comes to these "prodigies". Let's just hope he turns out to be worth the hype.
I discovered Mozart's 40th by the Camerata Salzburg, no conductor. Just 36 minutes of bliss. One of the reasons why UA-cam these days is preferred by some to purchasing or even playing a CD?
That was exactly my reaction when I heard these recordings. I thought the performances were very average, and the orchestra could have played them just as well without him.
If you look back at what the great conductors in the past century were doing at 24 they were repetiteurs in opera houses or conducting in opera houses in small towns. I haven't looked into how he came to his prominence but surely he has achieved much and more than the average young conductor. He conducted Mahler and Bruckner in Hong Kong and three days later made his Proms debut conducting Shostakovich. He's perhaps conducting too many huge works at this stage and instead needs to build a solid foundation with smaller scaled works. I'm interested in young people's approach, otherwise music would be just following the same strict traditions and become stagnant. As you say don't write him off.
That album cover is slightly embarrassing. It reminds me of Harry Potter with his magic wand. I'm not knocking Tarmo or Harry or wands... just saying. Maybe that's exactly the connection the marketing folks want to make.
Do you happen to know whether the distinctive way those timpani rolls are done in the finale of the Haffner (sharp attack, then crescendo) are an interpretive decision? I don't remember anyone else who does them that way!
@@DavesClassicalGuide OK I also notice the first oboe goes to town with ornaments on the repeats in the slow movement, which you could also say is maybe his prerogative, but when the first violins do it, too (as they do), it seems to me you have to give the conductor some credit. His salon-pieces certainly betray a love of embellishment, so it's not too much of a stretch here. f Speaking of those improvisations, I especially enjoyed the Linz tango which I take as an homage to his Finnish background, the Finns have a peculiar affinity for that rhythm. Intelligence and playfulness, absolutely!
@@DavesClassicalGuide an hour after the concert in HK .. came across your video after looking him up. Honestly, his interpretation of Mahler 5 is not great in my eyes. It was a very middle-of-the-path interpretation. My words when listening were “there is nothing new, maybe because he is nothing new”. But what is worth some slight obsession is the musical and personal charisma this young guy has. As a conductor that is almost the basis for growth into something distinctive. In that regard I was extremely interested and wanted to meet this specimen of a person backstage. But he left early! Listen to his improvisations too! Those are proof that the intuitive, inventive side of him is there. Maybe he is just young in terms of his conducting.
Thanks for this - just a thought - when you provide feedback relating to the conductor giving choices that you disagree with - I, being a a non-musician, can you back them up with examples of what you like - to make your judgement more of a comparison to give an idea. E.g. you can say something like - "the first movement of the symphony is too fast, I would suggest (place in the comparison) as a nice alternative." - In that way, not only are you informing, but letting some of us learn more of the music and wishing to hear suggestions you prefer. At the moment, as a person who likes classical music but isn't as knowledgeable as you are, I find the judgements a bit vague Just a thought.
I usually offer comparisons to other recordings, but what I would really like to do is play samples illustrating the point. Unfortunately, copyright protections for bid it.
I was curious about Tarmo and listened to a few videos on UA-cam. Based on the limited number of clips that I watched, I think I would prefer the playing style of more intensities and seriousness than Tarmo's
I did a quick comparison between the new whiz kid and the old master in the Linz. It always struck me as one of Klemp's (surprisingly) vigorous recordings. Mr Tarmo logs in at 9.55/7.50/3.12/7.00 Yes, I agree with you that it seems fast. But Maestro's recording is 9.54/6.36/3.09/7.19. I agree with you: timings aren't everything. But isn't that a surprise? Klemperer's finale is hair-raising. Just checking in -/ love your videos.
It highlights the importance of phrasing and accent in creating the impression of (excessive) speed, but the Linz isn't as wacky that way as Nos. 35 and 40.
DG put mvt 1 of the 40th, mvt 2 of Linz and mvt 4 on UA-cam, so I gave a listen. I thought the 40th 1st movement had a lot of nice little details in phrasing and balance, I actually did hear some stuff in a new way. The Linz slow movement I thought was fast but certainly listenable, the orchestra played with real charm. The Haffner finale definitely suffered from the loud timpani, I wonder what the musicological justification for this is, it just seemed distracting. I detected some real creativity in the performances, although certainly no stunning revelations.
Heard enough of his Wagner to think he is just too young to specialize in Wagner-age matters and sometimes being young is a plus and sometimes being mature is more appropriate.
I appreciate the inclusion of piano improvisations in between symphonies. It makes a good break so that we can clean up our ears before listening to the next symphony, and offers an alternative to the too-reverent listening attitude. The only thing is that we, musicians who play from the score, tend to overrate improvisation skills. As though that was the mark of genius. It is not. It is only that our musical education is too segmented and does not encourage self-expression at that level. There are thousands of people who can improvise in classical and pre-classical style in a truly effective way. On the piano I can think of Andre Mehmari, who improvises on themes asked for by the audience, or Gabriela Montero. Various harpsichord and lute players can give a fully improvised concert in the style of Scarlatti or 16th century lute music. It is just another modality of music-making, which I welcome but am not baffled by.
On first hearing of this recording I just wondered why so many, such as Glenn Gould, for example, wished Mozart and Beethoven were Baroque and not 'classical.'
You're right. Very reverberant and very loud timpani. 🤮 I think by now, Harnoncourt and Gardiner are considered "old school." Still, in HIP (non-historical nor informed) recordings, I still prefer them.
I agree about the timpani prominence. Sometimes it can be exciting, but here its just annoying, and you find yourself waiting for the next time to 'duck for cover'! The sound's not that great generally, lacking in bottom end and resonance.
I listened to the 40th Symphony, First Movement. Why these period-instrument fanatics always think that the way instruments were constructed in the 17th and 18th Century should also mean that music must be performed with them completely mechanically and drained of any emotional coloring?!
There's a reason why Makela holds directorship with Chicago and concergebouw. Yes I agree most of his recordings were overrated but the hate for this kid is a little hilarious
With all the repertoire out there, it's got to be more Mozart at this late date. Yaaawn. Sure, timeless…it’s been done to death, decades and decades of recordings preserve great performances in the way pre good recorded sound couldn’t (thus the need to keep such music alive in concert halls…a situation which wasn’t necessarily even done in earlier days, thus why so much baroque era music disappeared, up until recent revivals). I’ll pass
…and if one wants to hear improvisational versions of classical music themes, there’s marvelous jazz musicians bred in that idiom such as Jacques Loussier, and John Lewis, just off the top. Sheesh
Yet another Finnish conductor! I think we need a total and complete shutdown of Finnish conducting until we can figure out what is going on. Seriously, though, why sooooo many Finnish conductors in prominent positions? Are their academies really so prolific?
I happened to like these performances, especially because some of the wind parts were more audible than usual. But those piano improvs (in the download) are embarrassing.
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The speed of the first two movements of this Haffner gave me an actual blood pressure spike that I didn’t recover from for the rest of the album.
I love how Bruno Walter says, “sing” to the orchestra. He says it with such gentleness.
This may be your sweetest, most encouraging review yet, David! 'That's a good thing! Anyone can accidentally hire studio time!'
When I was little I used to play "air timpani" with the finale of the Haffner, it is such a joy. Sounds perfect for me 😛
That was a good and honest review! Too bad we always have to cope with the all the PR and promotional bullcrap when it comes to these "prodigies". Let's just hope he turns out to be worth the hype.
His performances put a smile on my face - so did the improvs, although I won't be listening to those again any time soon.
I discovered Mozart's 40th by the Camerata Salzburg, no conductor. Just 36 minutes of bliss. One of the reasons why UA-cam these days is preferred by some to purchasing or even playing a CD?
I hope you can review Vanska's new Mahler 3rd and Michael Francis's new Beethoven Symphonies(Mahler Re-Orchestrations)❤
That's the plan.
That was exactly my reaction when I heard these recordings. I thought the performances were very average, and the orchestra could have played them just as well without him.
Agreed. This version is completely lacking in nuances. After listening to this Linz, I relistened to Mackerras'. Boy, what a difference!
If you look back at what the great conductors in the past century were doing at 24 they were repetiteurs in opera houses or conducting in opera houses in small towns. I haven't looked into how he came to his prominence but surely he has achieved much and more than the average young conductor. He conducted Mahler and Bruckner in Hong Kong and three days later made his Proms debut conducting Shostakovich. He's perhaps conducting too many huge works at this stage and instead needs to build a solid foundation with smaller scaled works. I'm interested in young people's approach, otherwise music would be just following the same strict traditions and become stagnant. As you say don't write him off.
That album cover is slightly embarrassing. It reminds me of Harry Potter with his magic wand. I'm not knocking Tarmo or Harry or wands... just saying. Maybe that's exactly the connection the marketing folks want to make.
Who are the people in the pictures? What message is looked to convey with those pictures?
The fact that your review was neutral, is a good thing. He’s got time to grow. And you didn’t come out hard negative as you did for “Ken.”
He didn't deserve a "hard negative." Ken did.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Exactly. The 'Ken Doll' "Petrushka" recording is positively atrocious. It's no exaggeration.
Agreed. That’s why on a relative scale this review was ok. I hope the guy grows to become great.
I like the use of timpani to energize Mozart. Perhaps the timpani were over done here. I need to find out.
Do you happen to know whether the distinctive way those timpani rolls are done in the finale of the Haffner (sharp attack, then crescendo) are an interpretive decision? I don't remember anyone else who does them that way!
Yes, they are, but whether the conductor's or the timpanist's I can't say.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you, I love it, it sounds fiendishly difficult to execute!
@@DavesClassicalGuide OK I also notice the first oboe goes to town with ornaments on the repeats in the slow movement, which you could also say is maybe his prerogative, but when the first violins do it, too (as they do), it seems to me you have to give the conductor some credit. His salon-pieces certainly betray a love of embellishment, so it's not too much of a stretch here. f
Speaking of those improvisations, I especially enjoyed the Linz tango which I take as an homage to his Finnish background, the Finns have a peculiar affinity for that rhythm. Intelligence and playfulness, absolutely!
I’m going to his concert with the HK Philharmonic next month with Prokofiev’s 2nd Piano Concerto and Mahler’s 5th. Should be interesting.
Hopefully.
me too
Me too, hope for the best at this stage. Prokofiev 2 is my fav concerto.
It was!🎉
@@DavesClassicalGuide an hour after the concert in HK .. came across your video after looking him up. Honestly, his interpretation of Mahler 5 is not great in my eyes. It was a very middle-of-the-path interpretation. My words when listening were “there is nothing new, maybe because he is nothing new”.
But what is worth some slight obsession is the musical and personal charisma this young guy has. As a conductor that is almost the basis for growth into something distinctive. In that regard I was extremely interested and wanted to meet this specimen of a person backstage. But he left early!
Listen to his improvisations too! Those are proof that the intuitive, inventive side of him is there. Maybe he is just young in terms of his conducting.
Well put!
Thanks for this - just a thought - when you provide feedback relating to the conductor giving choices that you disagree with - I, being a a non-musician, can you back them up with examples of what you like - to make your judgement more of a comparison to give an idea. E.g. you can say something like - "the first movement of the symphony is too fast, I would suggest (place in the comparison) as a nice alternative." - In that way, not only are you informing, but letting some of us learn more of the music and wishing to hear suggestions you prefer. At the moment, as a person who likes classical music but isn't as knowledgeable as you are, I find the judgements a bit vague Just a thought.
I usually offer comparisons to other recordings, but what I would really like to do is play samples illustrating the point. Unfortunately, copyright protections for bid it.
I was curious about Tarmo and listened to a few videos on UA-cam. Based on the limited number of clips that I watched, I think I would prefer the playing style of more intensities and seriousness than Tarmo's
I did a quick comparison between the new whiz kid and the old master in the Linz. It always struck me as one of Klemp's (surprisingly) vigorous recordings. Mr Tarmo
logs in at 9.55/7.50/3.12/7.00 Yes, I agree with you that it seems fast. But Maestro's recording is 9.54/6.36/3.09/7.19. I agree with you: timings aren't everything. But isn't that a surprise? Klemperer's finale is hair-raising. Just checking in -/ love your videos.
It highlights the importance of phrasing and accent in creating the impression of (excessive) speed, but the Linz isn't as wacky that way as Nos. 35 and 40.
DG put mvt 1 of the 40th, mvt 2 of Linz and mvt 4 on UA-cam, so I gave a listen. I thought the 40th 1st movement had a lot of nice little details in phrasing and balance, I actually did hear some stuff in a new way. The Linz slow movement I thought was fast but certainly listenable, the orchestra played with real charm. The Haffner finale definitely suffered from the loud timpani, I wonder what the musicological justification for this is, it just seemed distracting. I detected some real creativity in the performances, although certainly no stunning revelations.
Yes, but whose creativity? That's the question.
He is supposed to be a specialist in Wagner, so it will be interesting to hear what he does with those works.
Isn't everyone supposed to be a specialist in Wagner?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I certainly am, and I don't even conduct!😀
Heard enough of his Wagner to think he is just too young to specialize in Wagner-age matters and sometimes being young is a plus and sometimes being mature is more appropriate.
I appreciate the inclusion of piano improvisations in between symphonies. It makes a good break so that we can clean up our ears before listening to the next symphony, and offers an alternative to the too-reverent listening attitude. The only thing is that we, musicians who play from the score, tend to overrate improvisation skills. As though that was the mark of genius. It is not. It is only that our musical education is too segmented and does not encourage self-expression at that level. There are thousands of people who can improvise in classical and pre-classical style in a truly effective way. On the piano I can think of Andre Mehmari, who improvises on themes asked for by the audience, or Gabriela Montero. Various harpsichord and lute players can give a fully improvised concert in the style of Scarlatti or 16th century lute music. It is just another modality of music-making, which I welcome but am not baffled by.
On first hearing of this recording I just wondered why so many, such as Glenn Gould, for example, wished Mozart and Beethoven were Baroque and not 'classical.'
You're right. Very reverberant and very loud timpani. 🤮
I think by now, Harnoncourt and Gardiner are considered "old school." Still, in HIP (non-historical nor informed) recordings, I still prefer them.
I agree about the timpani prominence. Sometimes it can be exciting, but here its just annoying, and you find yourself waiting for the next time to 'duck for cover'! The sound's not that great generally, lacking in bottom end and resonance.
It reminds me of those Irish trad music sessions in in which an abusive bodhram steps in, masking the music made by the fine musicians in the session.
Any thoughts on Beethoven's relationship with the fuge?
Lots of them, but this is not the place for them.
I listened to the 40th Symphony, First Movement. Why these period-instrument fanatics always think that the way instruments were constructed in the 17th and 18th Century should also mean that music must be performed with them completely mechanically and drained of any emotional coloring?!
He is 22 and his voice sounds like he is 62. I don’t know how good he really is, but he sounds way better than Makela.
Wikipedia says he is 24, born 21 April 2000.
There's a reason why Makela holds directorship with Chicago and concergebouw. Yes I agree most of his recordings were overrated but the hate for this kid is a little hilarious
With all the repertoire out there, it's got to be more Mozart at this late date. Yaaawn. Sure, timeless…it’s been done to death, decades and decades of recordings preserve great performances in the way pre good recorded sound couldn’t (thus the need to keep such music alive in concert halls…a situation which wasn’t necessarily even done in earlier days, thus why so much baroque era music disappeared, up until recent revivals). I’ll pass
…and if one wants to hear improvisational versions of classical music themes, there’s marvelous jazz musicians bred in that idiom such as Jacques Loussier, and John Lewis, just off the top. Sheesh
Not another one!! Lol
Yet another Finnish conductor! I think we need a total and complete shutdown of Finnish conducting until we can figure out what is going on. Seriously, though, why sooooo many Finnish conductors in prominent positions? Are their academies really so prolific?
I happened to like these performances, especially because some of the wind parts were more audible than usual. But those piano improvs (in the download) are embarrassing.
I just saw the cover of the CD and I thought, oh who lets a baby conduct an orchestra?