I can't help but feel like Magistrate!Astarion would fucking HATE current Astarion 😂 (from imprisoning troublemakers to BEING the troublemaker) actually i feel like all four of the major forms of Astarion (Magistrate, Slave, Post-Cazador Spawn, and Ascendant) would hate each other. Boy changes a LOT over the centuries 😂
the funny thing is, depending on the version of D&D..there would STILL potentially be people around that would remember him. i suspect this was somethign that was left open for DLC/sequels we'll likely never get.
@@alexsolomon8127 dude his PARENTS could still be alive!! Astarion died REALLY young (39!! They mature like humans and then significantly slow down, hitting a secondary Elven Puberty in their 20's-30's and become adults at 100. Astarion was a teenager!!) considering elves can live 750 years? I think the only reason that Astarion wasn't found by his family is one of three things: his family lived in the Upper City and Cazador avoided letting his spawn hunt there so they never crossed paths, Cazador killed them, or they don't live in BG. Either anymore or they never did (my headcanon is that they never lived there. Astarion moved there on his own, which is why his grave is so...nothing. small, unnoticeable, untended...his parents had nothing to do with his funeral) Also this is Forgotten Realms, 5e.
@@alexsolomon8127 i mean I don't see anything that explicitly contradicts anything written about Spawn? There also seems to be inspiration from earlier editions too (like earlier editions talking about vampire spawn and the ability to resist their master or not. There's a, I think, wisdom saving throw to resist or be compelled. You can even see Astarion succeed or fail this exact throw in game if you play as him. Sadly it's a passive)
@@myheartismadeofstars You can't deny that Larian made changes. From Wyll losing his powers for breaking his pact (when WoTC said you lose access to FURTHER powers) to Karsus' Folly being entirely rewritten. Karsite Weave was pulled straight out Larians ass, as was his Crown. McGuffin 2.0 was a straight up retcon of how Karsus tried to become a God and failed. Changing things about Spawn? Ptfh, that'd be nothing. I mean, already we have a Day Walker. That's not supposed to happen. And because of an Illithid tadpole... That isn't instantly turning you into a squid? That some are entirely unaware of? BG3 feels closer to Homebrew than any official DnD.
Yeah!!! I think a lot of people are unaware there's another response, I only found out by looking at the datamined dialogue files! Which is a shame honestly, I think the little extra information you get when you ask him after is really interesting tbh...
Interesting that I'm just recently finding that he was supposed to have been a corrupt magistrate. I wonder why that's not something the actual game ever explored. To be fair, I think it might have made him significantly less sympathetic to many players and distracted from his character arc as a sufferer of abuse. The game itself allows you to look at him as someone who was a normal person (maybe not a saint, but not necessarily terrible either) and had the kindness and empathy tortured out of him. Personally, I think it's believable that he might have been the type of magistrate to do things like make shady decisions for his own benefit lol. But that doesn't necessarily mean he was evil or deserved what he got either. Still, I can't think of any other reason they would have left it so vague in the final product. Unless they just ended up deciding his past before becoming a vampire wasn't that relevant and they didn't need all the extra details.
I mean I actually think quite a bit was changed from his backstory from early access? And that's maybe more the reason it's not explored ingame. A lot of people citing the corrupt magistrate bit are looking at EA content and the artbook, which is pretty outdated! It might not be addressed ingame because it no longer actually applies to him. But at the same time he /was/ part of the justice system, and his backstory does still involve him causing harm to the Gur through it, which I don't think he should be absolved of at all. But at the same time, I also don't think people are correct in portraying him as like. a completely evil despot 😅 (And I also personally think the idea he's nobility/a nepo baby, which usually accompanies that portrayal is just fanon. There's far more evidence in the full release of the game to indicate he *wasn't* wealthy, rather than the other way around, which I honestly might make a video essay about hfvjgkfrjk) Personally, I think he's both supposed to represent someone who's...pretty terrible, but still didn't deserve his abuse, because nobody does. And I also think he's supposed to represent someone who did have great compassion for others (see: him being sealed underground for a year for trying to save someone soon after being turned...) But he was also someone who was capable of hurting others, which he did within the context of a system that is *designed* to harm people, in both their world and ours. And I think he's a commentary on that! And I think he's meant to be a commentary on cycles of harm and abuse, both on the personal level, and the societal level-and how to break them. Which I find really compelling actually!!! And I think you miss out on that aspect of his story both if you portray him as completely evil and corrupt, and if you absolve him of all his actions. ...I'm so sorry to ramble at you about all of this wshdvjkfbjgfk I just, have a lot of thoughts on this topic 😅 Which, again maybe I should make a video essay about? Hm...
@@magnetuning All good! I can get pretty long-winded myself when I'm interested in something, so I get it. I agree, I think Astarion is a complicated character and to deny either his good parts or his bad parts is to deny a big part of who he is. I just found it interesting because I noticed some people insist that he's pure evil and just recently, I saw someone cite his early access backstory as evidence. Which I didn't even know existed. Tbh as far as I'm concerned, anything that isn't in the game itself isn't canon. But it makes me question why the creators left the darker details on the cutting room floor, and if maybe they wanted him to come across as more sympathetic. Because if he was really some terrible corrupt member of government in life who was helping Cazador to start with, there are definitely people who would interpret what happened to him as karmic justice in some way. Seems to me like they left it purposefully vague though so people could come to their own conclusions. We know it's mentioned in game that he handed down a ruling that the Gur didn't like, but we have no idea what the nature of that ruling was as far as I'm aware. Like I said, though, I could definitely imagine him being a shady/seedy little shit, lol. He's also kind of a bigot, although it seems he's only one of many in Baldur's Gate, so XD
@@supremeoverlorde2109 agreed! People on the internet are already hating on him for all his content in the actual game and now that we know some stuff from EA the hate has gone through the roof. I also think that if the writers had included the original stuff in his story, then it would have contradicted Spawn Astarion ending, because he does say that no one cares if you kill the right people. I wonder if Astarion himself was one of those “right people” when he was a magistrate. It would have been interesting if he was one of those nobles who attended Cazador’s party. Secondly, I think people seem to not notice that he had his empathy beat out of him by Cazador lol, the whole incident where he spared a boy is enough evidence. I personally believe that he was corrupted as a magistrate but not too much, because that is how he must’ve caught Cazador’s eyes. Secondly, there are many fan theories saying that Cazador must’ve orchestrated the Gur attack on him because how come was he present at the right time and right location when Astarion was beaten to death?? Because what if his ruling was actually just, but was not beneficial for the Gur people? So many possibilities right? Sorry for randomly jumping in the comments lol, I am too excited about his storyline 😅
I can't help but feel like Magistrate!Astarion would fucking HATE current Astarion 😂 (from imprisoning troublemakers to BEING the troublemaker) actually i feel like all four of the major forms of Astarion (Magistrate, Slave, Post-Cazador Spawn, and Ascendant) would hate each other. Boy changes a LOT over the centuries 😂
the funny thing is, depending on the version of D&D..there would STILL potentially be people around that would remember him. i suspect this was somethign that was left open for DLC/sequels we'll likely never get.
@@alexsolomon8127 dude his PARENTS could still be alive!! Astarion died REALLY young (39!! They mature like humans and then significantly slow down, hitting a secondary Elven Puberty in their 20's-30's and become adults at 100. Astarion was a teenager!!) considering elves can live 750 years? I think the only reason that Astarion wasn't found by his family is one of three things: his family lived in the Upper City and Cazador avoided letting his spawn hunt there so they never crossed paths, Cazador killed them, or they don't live in BG. Either anymore or they never did (my headcanon is that they never lived there. Astarion moved there on his own, which is why his grave is so...nothing. small, unnoticeable, untended...his parents had nothing to do with his funeral)
Also this is Forgotten Realms, 5e.
@@myheartismadeofstars it's...kinda sorta 5e. larion took liberties. PARTICULARLY with vampire spawn
@@alexsolomon8127 i mean I don't see anything that explicitly contradicts anything written about Spawn? There also seems to be inspiration from earlier editions too (like earlier editions talking about vampire spawn and the ability to resist their master or not. There's a, I think, wisdom saving throw to resist or be compelled. You can even see Astarion succeed or fail this exact throw in game if you play as him. Sadly it's a passive)
@@myheartismadeofstars You can't deny that Larian made changes.
From Wyll losing his powers for breaking his pact (when WoTC said you lose access to FURTHER powers) to Karsus' Folly being entirely rewritten. Karsite Weave was pulled straight out Larians ass, as was his Crown.
McGuffin 2.0 was a straight up retcon of how Karsus tried to become a God and failed.
Changing things about Spawn?
Ptfh, that'd be nothing. I mean, already we have a Day Walker. That's not supposed to happen. And because of an Illithid tadpole... That isn't instantly turning you into a squid? That some are entirely unaware of?
BG3 feels closer to Homebrew than any official DnD.
i had no idea there was another response, for some reason i'd assumed it was only something you could ask before you learn he's a vampire. thank you!!
Yeah!!! I think a lot of people are unaware there's another response, I only found out by looking at the datamined dialogue files! Which is a shame honestly, I think the little extra information you get when you ask him after is really interesting tbh...
Interesting that I'm just recently finding that he was supposed to have been a corrupt magistrate. I wonder why that's not something the actual game ever explored.
To be fair, I think it might have made him significantly less sympathetic to many players and distracted from his character arc as a sufferer of abuse. The game itself allows you to look at him as someone who was a normal person (maybe not a saint, but not necessarily terrible either) and had the kindness and empathy tortured out of him. Personally, I think it's believable that he might have been the type of magistrate to do things like make shady decisions for his own benefit lol. But that doesn't necessarily mean he was evil or deserved what he got either.
Still, I can't think of any other reason they would have left it so vague in the final product. Unless they just ended up deciding his past before becoming a vampire wasn't that relevant and they didn't need all the extra details.
I mean I actually think quite a bit was changed from his backstory from early access? And that's maybe more the reason it's not explored ingame. A lot of people citing the corrupt magistrate bit are looking at EA content and the artbook, which is pretty outdated! It might not be addressed ingame because it no longer actually applies to him.
But at the same time he /was/ part of the justice system, and his backstory does still involve him causing harm to the Gur through it, which I don't think he should be absolved of at all. But at the same time, I also don't think people are correct in portraying him as like. a completely evil despot 😅 (And I also personally think the idea he's nobility/a nepo baby, which usually accompanies that portrayal is just fanon. There's far more evidence in the full release of the game to indicate he *wasn't* wealthy, rather than the other way around, which I honestly might make a video essay about hfvjgkfrjk)
Personally, I think he's both supposed to represent someone who's...pretty terrible, but still didn't deserve his abuse, because nobody does. And I also think he's supposed to represent someone who did have great compassion for others (see: him being sealed underground for a year for trying to save someone soon after being turned...) But he was also someone who was capable of hurting others, which he did within the context of a system that is *designed* to harm people, in both their world and ours. And I think he's a commentary on that! And I think he's meant to be a commentary on cycles of harm and abuse, both on the personal level, and the societal level-and how to break them. Which I find really compelling actually!!! And I think you miss out on that aspect of his story both if you portray him as completely evil and corrupt, and if you absolve him of all his actions.
...I'm so sorry to ramble at you about all of this wshdvjkfbjgfk I just, have a lot of thoughts on this topic 😅 Which, again maybe I should make a video essay about? Hm...
@@magnetuning All good! I can get pretty long-winded myself when I'm interested in something, so I get it. I agree, I think Astarion is a complicated character and to deny either his good parts or his bad parts is to deny a big part of who he is.
I just found it interesting because I noticed some people insist that he's pure evil and just recently, I saw someone cite his early access backstory as evidence. Which I didn't even know existed.
Tbh as far as I'm concerned, anything that isn't in the game itself isn't canon. But it makes me question why the creators left the darker details on the cutting room floor, and if maybe they wanted him to come across as more sympathetic. Because if he was really some terrible corrupt member of government in life who was helping Cazador to start with, there are definitely people who would interpret what happened to him as karmic justice in some way.
Seems to me like they left it purposefully vague though so people could come to their own conclusions. We know it's mentioned in game that he handed down a ruling that the Gur didn't like, but we have no idea what the nature of that ruling was as far as I'm aware.
Like I said, though, I could definitely imagine him being a shady/seedy little shit, lol. He's also kind of a bigot, although it seems he's only one of many in Baldur's Gate, so XD
@@supremeoverlorde2109 agreed! People on the internet are already hating on him for all his content in the actual game and now that we know some stuff from EA the hate has gone through the roof. I also think that if the writers had included the original stuff in his story, then it would have contradicted Spawn Astarion ending, because he does say that no one cares if you kill the right people. I wonder if Astarion himself was one of those “right people” when he was a magistrate. It would have been interesting if he was one of those nobles who attended Cazador’s party. Secondly, I think people seem to not notice that he had his empathy beat out of him by Cazador lol, the whole incident where he spared a boy is enough evidence. I personally believe that he was corrupted as a magistrate but not too much, because that is how he must’ve caught Cazador’s eyes. Secondly, there are many fan theories saying that Cazador must’ve orchestrated the Gur attack on him because how come was he present at the right time and right location when Astarion was beaten to death?? Because what if his ruling was actually just, but was not beneficial for the Gur people? So many possibilities right? Sorry for randomly jumping in the comments lol, I am too excited about his storyline 😅