For a long time, Crest was the go-to brand for sound reinforcement systems when sound quality was the ultimate goal. And they're essentially bulletproof.
Because of your video, I just bought a VS900 to power a pair of Magnepan MG12s. Have owned them for ~10 years, but did not have an amplifier strong enough to drive them properly.
Thank you for a wonderful and amazing night while I get caught up on my paperwork. I enjoyed turning on the AC after spending my late afternoon crawling around the attic fishing wires for new lighting!
Seem to recall you doing another amp I think it was with a noisy fan keep up the great work love your videos I must do watching it now and it just before 2am here in UK
I use to have a QSC USA 850 Amp was hooked to a Pioneer sx 1280 using the preouts. I had homemade speakers with 18" subs. I used the qsc for the subs & i had and the pioneer for the mids & highs. i sold the qsc and the speakers to a DJ yrs ago but still have the 1280.
I have to say the Crest amplifier sounds amazing, it does not have typical pro amp sound. I built some Crown amps and something about them is not right, Crown amps have to much anti-oscillation compensation. Nice video I enjoyed it !
Rated 450 rms into 4 ohms. These pro amplifiers have plenty of reserve. And the kicker is they are not super expensive. They are real sleeper amplifiers. Now the variable bias (natural sound, new class a legato linear) will claim lower distortion. .003 vs .05 is splitting hairs. These ones creep up to about 1% when you get to full power but even at that, you won't hear it at that volume and the speakers will be adding their own at that sound pressure. So that is a moot point. Besides it's even order harmonics for the most part. Harmonic distortion is not real bad, intermodulation, or IMD is the nasty odd order distortion that makes cheap amps sound like crap.
I built a set of mini line-array speakers using 4x Eminence Alpha 6" mid-bass drivers and a stack of Goldwood ceramic horn tweeters -- apparently they're a hidden gem. They were built for mini PA use, and I had them running off a Crown XLS 202 at around 200W. I fired them up for testing in my garage and I don't know if I've ever felt physically assaulted by audio quite like that before. It was obviously too loud to listen to without hearing damage, but the mid-bass punch to the gut was so extreme it made me feel a bit funny after a minute or so. It was just insane. haha
This amp's input impedance is around 10kohm. Keep in mind some sources and preamps, especially tube output, will have a high ish output impedance, which will result in minor low pass filtering effects. Ideally stick with source impedance that's 1/10th the amp input impedance or less. Nice amp congrats!
Isn't that pretty typical? There's not much of a standard for line-level, since it's not balanced, and often seems to run anywhere between about 1K and 47K.
For the person who commented about the input impedance being a bit low, you can build an op amp buffer with whatever input impedance you like within reason. A 4558 should work nice. Use a pull from some old equipment or new old stock. JRC was the most common brand.
This one will accept low and high impedence. 600ohm balanced to high impedence unbalanced. There is a gain control on the back for each channel to match the input to whatever your preamp provides.
Yes these amplifiers are meant to be ran with a mixer. This is just a amplifier. Well some mixers have low gain where others have high Gain and then some have both low and high Gain that you can choose and pick from.😁 So this amplifier has a drive stage and output stage. So it doesn't come with a preamp built within the amplifier. The mixer is your preamp.😁 That's why most people that buy these amplifiers also buy a mixer and some speakers that can handle the power of the amplifier. Note pro audio speakers are designed and built differently than home audio speakers.
@@12voltvids yes I agree 💖 and yes there are some preamps and mixers that are made of very low quality and don't do well as a preamp in my personal opinion so it's good to get a nice quality one. Preferably I prefer to build my own because I can build it the way I want with the right amount of gain custom built and suitable for the amplifier that I may own.😁
@@Sans_Solo_ there was nothing wrong with the fan. It was just running too fast as this is a pro amp. I slowed it down to quiet down the air flow slightly.
Real nice. I thought the filter caps would of been bigger given the amps rating, but I don't know much about direct coupling. I have a couple nad c352 amps and the filters in there are 22000uf each! Overkill for an 80wpc amp. They need replacing as they are garbage and are bulging. Anyway great vid as always.
The caps are in parallel so you double the capacity. Also remember the voltage is much higher than most amplifiers. These ones are running at 80 volts each most amplifiers are running in the 50 to 60 volt range some even lower. Plus it's got a big transformer that can resupply those capacitors very quickly so you don't need as big a caps. A lot of amplifiers use great big capacitors because the transformer can't supply enough current constantly so you need that reserve in the filters because it takes time to charge them back up. If you have a big transformer you don't need big filters but again these are in parallel so you double the capacity they did it that way just to reduce the physical size because the two capacitors themself are smaller than one of double capacity. There's also the reliability factor having multiple caps means less heat because they're physically smaller unless he means the lifespan will be longer. these caps really aren't working that much anyway because until you're at that extreme power saturation a full power they're not being depleted. They're just sitting there fully charged filtering out the incoming AC and living happy with a nice Cool breeze blowing over them to keep them cool. These will never fail and they're good American components. None of this Chinese crap.
@@12voltvids absolutely fantastic answer- highly appreciated certainly. My family send greetings to you from Scotland. At my next opportunity I will send you some pennies for a nice bottle of wine 🙂🙂
One set of speakers I run in my home system are renkus heinz line array loaded with 12" mc cauley's and Heinz drivers into conical horn's. I don't even think McCauley's are available anymore they were the best Professional loudspeakers back in the day. The reason I say this is a good set of high quality speakers will really show you the potential of this amplifier which is nothing short of musical Nirvana.
To the man who commented that this amplifier is stupid for home use he's right that's why I use four of them. 😂 As a born music lover and musician I have heard the best money can buy even been in a professional recording studio listening to 2-inch tape with this being said I challenge anyone to find an amplifier that sounds as good as this for $200. As a matter of fact I have owned all types of power amps including crown if you like your music natural clear and articulate with a huge Sound Stage this amplifier provides that in spades and yes it can piss off your neighbors four blocks away if you're feeling naughty 😂
Absolutely. I can't get over how big the sound stage sounds on this one. Even out of small speakers this sounds incredible. I'm going to find a second one to operate in bridged mode for even more power!
@@12voltvids yes as long as I've been around audio this amplifier was the best kept secret until we came along 😂 a lot of people don't believe me when I tell them I push my crest amps with a Pioneer SX 680 used as a preamp and run a pair peavey Internationals 15" and horn running off the six 80s power. And as I have said I've heard the best systems money can buy but this setup is just magic and mind-blowing. Everything I throw at the crest comes out beautifully. Literally I feel like a little kid again every time I play something new over the system. I should mention one of my vs900 has leaking caps so it's out of commission for now would you suggest sticking with the same value caps that are in it or raise the values? Oh and have a great time with your amplifier😋
@@iggyfritz7150 I would stick with original value. The engineers that designed it know a thing or 2. Just one look at the schematic and you understand how complex this amplifier really is. They've used every trick in the book to make this thing as musical as a possibly could. I generally listen to vacuum tube apps because I like how musical they are and how big the soundstage is and when I put this one on I was listening to it and it's like wow this is as close to a full vacuum tube amp as I've ever heard a solid state amp deliver. I haven't even put my good speakers on it yet blown away by these small bookshelf speakers when I get my big speakers connected I am sure i will have a permanent smile.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me yeah I have to admit when I open this thing up I was blown away at the Quality and I think you're absolutely right about the engineers knowing a thing or two as I said I have heard some of the most expensive amplifiers out there and this one lays waste the most and would stand up to the best money can buy you found a gem I hope you have a lot of fun as I have thank you again God bless
Same here. Sounds great at low and moderate volumes. So much headroom. Have an andiosnoob cliant that rolls his eyes at pro audio saying it's crap with 1% distortion. Yes at full power 450wpc into 4 ohms it probably will hit 1% but at that volume who cares because your ears are already bleeding. At normal listening levels the distortion. Is very low .02 which is very good. My Technics is lower .003 at low level but that is a direct coupled class A
Nice amp, and some interesting approach about the cooling fan management. I've already had to replace noisy fans, and that can be as challenging as giving really interesting results, as some fan manufacturers have developed better technology, giving more air for much less noise, lower consumption and increased longevity. At least, a new identical model is generally more silent with new bearings. To get a new fan, dimensions are important, but you also need voltages and initial performances, so it's ideal to get the flow rate or CFM data at nominal voltage. If you're lucky, many of these have a sticker with references leading to data on the internet. From there, the problem could be the way the fan is regulated, as most of PC fans have 3 or 4 wires, some needing a specific drive or a resistive command load. So you have to check for a more classic 2 wires model, or something that is provided with adapters. Anyway, additional lighting is a general proof of low quality, and some brands like Noctua are way more silent than their Sunon equivalent (the brand you generally expect to find in quality industrial equipment). It's something interesting in many ways for 19" racks with UPS, servers, computers, NAS, pro audio and many other technologies requiring some forced air cooling. There's also a peculiar point when cleaning these fans, the use of air flow can induce destructive high speed, particularly with magnetic suspended models. It's better to clean the blades with a soft brush or block any rotation when using compressed gas. I've seen many high cost boomers repeatedly attacked and destroyed by the house feline! As cats hate olive oil scent, why not experiment, as it's natural and easy to find in many kitchens.
So I guess that means you like Peavey also. 😁 PV is the makers of Crest audio amplifiers. And also PV uses the Eminence speaker factory to build their custom speakers. The only speakers that PV actually makes or produces in the factory is the Peavey Black widow and the Peavey Scorpion speakers. These particular speakers are genuine PV speaker and they can handle a lot of power. And the DB levels are high. So all in all pro audio speakers are what you need to get the most out of the pro audio amplifiers. Home audio speakers will not cut it. Most home audio speakers have a low level DB and most of them also use a first order crossover. Pro audio speakers however have a high levels of DB and used second order crossovers, third order crossover and also fourth order crossovers in their speaker designs. I know this because I actually build my own pro audio custom speakers and my own pro audio amplifiers.The transistors that are used in the pro audio amplifiers are specially designed in such a way to produce high levels of Gain. And can handle high voltages of current. And also some of the transistors have a very fast slew rate as well as fast response to sound. One good example is the TLO72 op amp it has a very fast slew rate. And it is also a low noise op amp. Meaning that it produces a very high quality level of sound with a fast response to sound.
@@SS-mj2mq Now they are yes, but the 9200 is a few years old, I think it was their first line of class D amps, so it's only a 2u unit that will do 3000w x2 in 2r. It's the flagship they made after they stopped making the absolute beast that was the 10001.
@@drdyna I have an old PV 1.3 k that I completely rebuilt every transistor diode cap resistors transistors rectifier drive transistors and also the op-amps and more. It took me a month to rebuild taking all the parts out and redoing all the boards with new components I ordered all the parts direct from PV parts this thing weighs a hundred pounds and produces 2,110 watts of pure power into a 2-ohm load 1,055 watts per channel. This thing is a tank! 😂 The extra 110 watts is for headroom so that it won't clip at the 2000 watt output mark. It cost me $500 all together plus my time. I love the old amplifiers you can't beat them. Well the only thing I didn't replace was the power switch cooling fan transformer and some of the wires all other components were replaced. It's hard to find the power switch. The cooling fan is very expensive it runs off of 120 volts. And the transformers massive and it would be hard to find as well the transformer is most of the weight of the amplifier 😂 thanks for reading have a great day 🤗 well I wanted to add one more thing when you're ordering parts from PV you have to look at the schematics and give them the part numbers you can't just say I need a 3.8 k resistor or a 2.2 uf capacitor it took me forever just to get parts lol. I was on the phone for hours and hours just trying to get the parts and some were obsolete so they sent me the equivalent or cross reference parts because of the age of the amplifier but I got it rebuilt and up and running works and sounds great.
@@SS-mj2mq I can't agree with the home audio speakers bit. Home and Pro stuff are designed with _completely_ different goals. For Pro speakers, the main criteria is efficiency. Convert as much power into sound as possible, because you need a lot of sound, and lower efficiency requires higher power, and higher power is difficult to get, expensive to handle (the amp stages, cooling, cabling, everything), and turns into heat, which then _also_ has to be dealt with -- ultimately, by the voice coils and crossover components. For Home, the goal is a target response curve. Whether that's flat, smiley-EQ, and/or designed to compensate for a typical distance from walls, floors, and ceilings. A lot of power has to be "wasted" to equalize the response in the crossover, which can only shed power, not boost it. Pro speakers don't care about flat response. You're a pro, you have an EQ, so use it. Its ideal configuration depends on the venue anyway. And it's WAY more efficient to tailor the response curve at line level than at speaker level, and then amplify or bi-amplify or tri-amplify as necessary. A home speaker may be half as loud, or less, with the same power compared to a pro speaker. That negates _some_ of the power advantage that a pro amp would have, such that a pro speaker on a home amp will be pretty comparable to a home speaker on a pro amp. Using a pro speaker on a pro amp in a home is a recipe for hearing damage. There's just no need for >105dB continuous at the listening position. And if you're not going to turn it up that much, why bring out the big guns, and then deal with all the inconveniences of pro-audio gear (like lack of remote turn-on, the necessity of EQ, the RCA to XLR or 1/4" cables and Speakon connectors you'll probably have to have, loud fans, etc..) Edit: Oh, also... I wouldn't say "most" home speakers use a 1st-order xover, and that pro uses 2nd, 3rd, or 4th as a rule. Home speakers of any decent quality will have been designed with a balance of smooth XO transition and limiting distortion. Woofer cones get directional and often have response abnormalities above 1KHz, and tweeters need a higher XO point to keep from hitting excursion and power handling issues. There may only be a 1st-order filter in the XO itself, but there's a really good chance the woofer's roll-off counts as another order, and is being intentionally accounted-for. The tweeter is likely at least 2nd order, and many are 3rd. Whatever aligns the response and/or phase the best. Much of this applies to pro as well, except there's also a chance this is being done electronically before the amps, and the details depend solely on the operator's understanding of filter applications, and even how to use their equipment properly. (Although a two-way top with its own internal XO is pretty common as well.)
@@nickwallette6201 pretty much what I was saying but with less detail. You do not mix home audio and pro audio amplifiers together it just won't work but people do it but it and it does not sound good 😊 Plus home audio speakers definitely can not handle the output power of a high-end high powered professional audio amplifier. I actually build custom amplifiers from the ground up and I even build custom boxes and crossovers the big thing is for good sound quality is to get everything that you build up to correct specs and that's using a lot of math and formulas and even high grade high quality parts and so forth and so forth. That's why most of your professional amplifier designers and engineers also build speakers and mixers for their products. For example JBL suggests Crown amplifiers for their speaker products. And of course Peavey has their own line of speakers. But PV is known to have Eminence custom build their speakers as well. Want to add one more little note having the correct gauge wire is very important when it comes to high-powered amplifiers you can actually kill a amplifier or burn up the wire and even the speakers. And it's nice to have a little bit of extra headroom when it comes to your speakers also so you don't fry your speakers.😊
Tenho um QSC 1400 aqui no Brasil/Sao Paulo bem parecido na contruçao eletrica com esse modelo da Crest. sao otimos equipamentos de amplificadores de som, eu uso em casa tambem.
I picked up a VS900 from a local ham get together a few months back for $10. One channel was in protection. Easy fix though and have been running it since. Very nice sounding amp. I plan on drilling out two holes in the back right above the screw terminal inputs and installing a pair of XLR inputs. I run many pro amps and several of my home audio preamps have XLR out so that would come in very handy. Curious, did these come stock with Nichicon Muse capacitors in the amp section? I see a handful of Muse (KZ), but then in the power supply cheaper caps like Surge (brand)? Never heard of the them, but I see them and think cheap Chinese, and Illinois. Nothing wrong with Illinois, but never thought of them as great like some Nichicon and Panasonic series. Are surge decent? Anyways, if the Muse are original to the amp I may as well do a recap anyways as these are approaching what, 25-30 years of age?
25 is nothing for these. I wouldn't touch them till it is closer to 50. Remember this a direct coupled amp. The caps are just AC filters in the power supply, so they won't affect the sound. When they go bad you will know it as you will have AC hum. One of the reasons it sounds so good is because it is a direct coupled amp.
@@12voltvids so what was the purpose of using the Nichicon Muse in it? I haven’t looked at the schematic, but I’d have to assume that they’re in the signal path. Also you should look at possibly finding a preamp with a bit more output voltage. Or maybe your source is at a lower level than say a CD player (iPod for example). With this same amp my Sony ES preamp can drive the amp into clipping at like 1 o’clock on the volume. I see with your preamp you have to hit 9-10 before much output and going to 3-4 o’clock and those little polks taking it! Maybe it’s just in the video. Enjoy, wonderful amp!
@@danhorton6182 There is probably 1 on the input of each channel to negate any DC offset that could be present on input. Otherwise you would have a huge DC voltage sent to your speakers. So it is common to put a single cap at the input to block DC.
@@12voltvids right, exactly my thought, but maybe not. If you happen to open yours up again I’d be interested to know if C8, C13, C102, and C202 are 100uF 50V KZ. You don’t see these used from a factory piece unless it’s a fairly high end piece, they aren’t cheap capacitors. I assumed that they were aftermarket, but they look awfully similar in your amp.
I use 2nd-hand Crown XLS amps in my home setup. Fans don't kick on, pretty much ever. The bottom of the line 1002 model has power about equal to this crest.
Yeah Dave.......nothing like some clean music to rattle a musical typhoon through your auditory canals ( What wax ?) It even made an improved sound from my Sony desktop system with sub-woofer. By the way, what are your favorite 3 speaker design/manufacturers for floor free-standing speakers ( 12 in. woofers min ) JwgK
I'd love a crest amp. Ive had Crown K2's and QSC's in the past, But now got Peavey. and damn you should see the size of the filter caps in it :D Literally 6-7cm wide, and 7-8cm tall! 2 big huge things hahaha
Used some Crest stacks in a few clubs.. never had an issue with them. We ran sound in Mono and that's where you get some real juicy stuff going on with that Bridge. It's like.. oh that's super loud.. it's only at 4 😂 They look like Military spec inside.. nice layout never cracked one open ..because we never had to ! LOL I mostly ran Rane mixers... a great clean compliment for audio signal input.
Recently I actually went the opposite route, I downsized the amplifier section from an 80+80 W pre-amp + booster amp to an integrated 30 + 30 W. Less space, less heat, same volume with my bookshelf speakers. Unless you have very big tower speakers, you will rarely need 200 W of audio power in a home audio system. And personally I get irritated by a noisy CD player (servo noises, spindle rotation), I could not stand a fan always running no matter the speed.
Fans are good they keep everything cool. He does enemy number one for all electronics. The fan now runs at such a low speed that you can't hear it unless you put your ear right up to it. Even with no music playing you don't hear it the fan on the ceiling makes more noise.
@@Synthematix I will respectfully disagree. I have been doing a/b comparisons all night. Listening to the same music on same brand model speakers comparing my 50 watt akai and the new crest. The difference is striking. Like listening to 2 different recordings. Instruments pop in the mid-range. It sounds very much like my vacuum tube amp but with a shitload more punch. I wasn't driving ear splitting levels as I had to keep the 50wpc amp out of the red but even at this level the sound differences were incredible. I have very good hearing for my age and as a musician I listen for specific instruments as i analyze recordings. I listen for the subtile sounds and I tell you the difference is amazing. It's all about dynamics. Even at a comfortable 40 or so watts music power dynamics on the music will require power peaking at over 100 watts easily and well the 50 watt amplifier just can't manage that power. A big amp does it without a consideration. Tube amps have always have had good dynamics but to get big power on tubes requires lots of tubes and big transformers. I have always prefer the sound of tubes but this amp is changing my mind quickly. You don't see home amplifiers in recording studios, you see big professional amplifiers like this for the mix sessions.
@@12voltvids Yea, older amps do tend to sound better i dont deny that, ive got a couple of old onkyos and sonys from 1980 nothing today touches them today for sound quality, today theyre mostly plastic crap with cheap components. the best combination is a good transistor amp paired with a valve preamp. then you get the power of transistors with the warmth of tubes.
@@12voltvids I have a few pro-audio amps that I use for... well, pro-audio. My main takeaway is that they have a little more hiss, because the gain staging isn't optimized for a couple watts, it's meant to drive big speakers, and to drive them loudly, where a whisper of hiss is pretty much inconsequential. I've never done A/B comparisons to a reasonably-sized amp for home use. I've always felt that around 100 WPC is enough for anyone, unless you've got some really inefficient speakers that drop a ton of voltage in the crossover, or have a high-impedance coil, or something else exotic. Most of what most of us are willing to listen to is well within 10W, and a 10x ceiling for transients seems pretty generous. If I'm cranking it to "OSHA be gosh-darned" levels, then I can cope with a little compression. I have, however, gotten curious about using much more efficient drivers. I started a project to use some Eminence Alpha drivers in a large box, and have a couple compression drivers, with a couple matching horns to play with, and some ribbons for comparison. That little sojourn started when, for the lols, I connected a 4x10 + horn bass cab to my receiver as a center channel speaker. It wasn't HiFi for sure, but there was an incredible cinema-like clarity to the dialogue that demanded notice, and therefore, experimentation. Of course, I'm like a ferret with projects, and my "test box" has been sitting in the same place for a couple years, waiting for me to get around to feeding it test tones into an RTA, and building DSP profiles of simulated crossovers, and all the other design dirty work that goes along with it. Some day.
The crest amplifiers are still available they're owned by Peavey now. Another great amplifier if you're looking for a good North American built amplifier would be one of the new hafler amplifiers. They're made in Canada in Port Moody British Columbia by radial engineering. They also make the dinoco St 70 tube amplifier as well at the same factory in Port Moody. I would have one of their amplifiers as well but I wasn't looking to spend a bunch of bucks on a new one and I found this one for a good deal so I'm happy.
200 would be about the right price for a unit if this quality. If you look on eBay you will see that many have sold for closer to 500usd. Even 300 would be considered a good price considering what you are getting. I am totally satisfied with this one. Will hook it up to my big speakers next week.
@@12voltvids are you still using this crest amp? How did it work with big speakers? I'm thinking of picking one up locally to pair with polk sda speakers which take 300+ watts to open up.
Take it not heard of the Yamaha h-5000? 550watts per channel 8ohms. Dual mono and sounds more hifi home audio than it does Pa hence why I loved using them for live sound. Didn’t have that harshness of some of big Pa units.
@@12voltvids have to have a listen to one if I get my hands on one. Many of these pa units are being soaked up by audio buffs. Even BK electronics made some nice units and again some audio buffs are buying into those
@@23chilled for good reason. Tons of head room. The amp barely has to work. Fan noise is a common complaint. This can be mitigated by changing the low speed resistor as I did or changing the fan to a low voltage DC fan but that will require its own power supply. Don't want to induce noise into audio signal path by tapping into existing supply.
Can you tell me the IC power modular number on the IC on the back of the amplifier mounted inside i lost mine and know one knows nothing I searched the entire internet
I have a Qsc 1400 200w par channel , 16 transitors. i found fan AC at the back to noisy at low volume , i disconect the low speed , i add at the back 12vots DC and ajuste the speed for the lower noise , for security i leave the high speed fan circuit , the start the ac Fan at 50C .
@@12voltvids my motor is look like a motor of BSR turntable , i try with bigger ressitance the motor is shacking or stalling , i dont have triac on my circuit..
@@robertvirago1956 some just use a thermal switch to switch it to high speed mode when the switch is open everything goes through the resistor for the slow speed once the heat sink reaches a certain temperature of the switch mechanically closes and it gives full power works the same way. The modern way is how my amp is set up where it not only monitors the temperature but it also monitors the output power. So if I crank it up for example it doesn't have to get hot before it turns the fan speed up if I crank it up it will speed the fan up immediately the premise behind that is if it's that loud you're not going to hear it but as soon as the volume level drops the fan goes back to the solar speed so again you won't hear it the only time you would hear it is if you had been pounding it at full power and it got hot and then you suddenly turn the volume down if it had gone into thermal cooling mode the fan would continue to run for a few minutes to cool it down and then go back to the slow speed. What you have would work like that the fan would continue to run until it cooled. The new design because it puts the fan into high speed before it actually gets hot it will keep it from getting hot so once the volume is reduced the fan can slow down again because it hasn't gotten hot. Anyway I ran this at some pretty good volume yesterday and it never even got warm.
I Also use a professional amp for my home audio use but my main woofer speakers are 12 inch (750 Watt) with 2.5inch coils and they sound much better than those smaller speakers which I have tested, I am even thinking of going with 15 inch speakers with a 3.5 inch voice coil for extremely loud playing as I think the 12's are overpowered at 2/3 high volume. If you like how the Crest Amp performs with the small speakers you should try them with larger higher wattage speakers you might be blown away with the performance. Even listening at lower volume I prefer the larger speakers as they give a better "Presence" and kick to the sound that makes it more enjoyable in my opinion.
I have some big woofers in the house. 14" woofers should shake the house off the foundation nicely. The thing is I don't generally listen to music really loud I'm after the clarity. This is why over the last 40 years I've been using lower powered vacuum tube amplifiers just because of the sound. I have a couple of 110 and 120 watt per channel solid state amps and I've never been all that impressed with the sound. From what I heard with this one yesterday I was impressed with how it sounded on the small speakers I can just imagine how much better the big speakers will sound. The direct coupled amplifiers these days are very good and very transparent. Of course the advantage to having big power is not that you need big power but you need the headroom for high power transients that can come along in music. Sometimes these transients aren't even audible but when you get certain sounds that mix together they require a much larger amplified signal so that the speaker can reproduce the sound accurately and a lower powered amplifier that runs out of steam is going to distort and clip this sound. What are the benefits to using professional gear is it designed for PA use where accidents can happen. You could get feedback you could get hum you can get all kinds of stuff that happens especially on a live performance that could drive an amplifier beyond its design limit. What these commercial amps do is they have an attenuator built in they will automatically cut the level just before the amp goes into clipping. In other words compress the signal slightly to keep the amp from going into clipping thereby saving your speakers this is a feature that most consumer home amplifiers do not have. When it's not needed of course it's not going to do anything but if you ever find yourself in a situation where you have overdriven and your amp could go into clipping it's nice to know that that circuit is there. NAD we're one of the companies that had the soft clip option on their consumer amplifiers
That's into 4 ohms, per channel. This sucker will put out 1200 into 2 ohms in mono bridged mode. 8 ohms it is more like 250 per channel. Still enough to crack the plaster.
I don't know if I was being told the truth about this or not. When I was younger there was an audio shop (car audio) in my local town and I knew the guy previously he and his wife ran a Radio Shack franchise. Anyway it played out and they, well him ran the car audio for a short time. He sold an amp that guaranteed 40 watts of constant power and wouldn't clip because the amplifier chips weren't designed that way, so it was very much like commercial amps concerning the clean signal output. The power wire required was quite large for only 40 watts per channel so there may have been truth in what he told me. He explained that popular amps had a cut off if the current went too high, he said not so with this guaranteed 40 watt "no matter the frequency" amp.
Too cool I've been using this same model for the last 6 or so years. In my room the fan is too loud for my liking. . Poor thing has been switched to my more seldom rear ATMOS channel duties, as opposed to running my fronts{buzzing} Ended up switching to a similar power 3 channel Amp. without fan for my front 3. The original manual for this is neat. Has a whole page of very specific specifications. Can easily be found with google.
That's why i modded the low speed fan setting. Now it is inaudible and if I were to be pounding the music through this to the point where the fan was running you wouldn't hear it anyway. What am I application I'm not playing music at 140 decibels generally so the fan should never even get to that high-speed mode for what I'll be using this for. For me it's about sound quality. I've always used a tube amp in the past because I like the sound that two bands provide. I have a Technics SUV 9 which is a great sounding amplifier in my studio. But other vintage apps that I've been running like my sansui 9090 for example just don't seem to cut it. So I keep going back to the tube amp because of the sound. The thing is the tube amp only is 40 watts per channel, so it doesn't have the dynamic power available for some reason punchy bass. From my preliminary listing to this one I would say that that problem is solved and it sounds sweet in the mids like my tube app. You know the saying right if you can't get the mid-range right then nothing else matters. So far this one's getting everything right very impressed. Would have been a bargain that twice the price.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 clubs churches movie theaters recording studios. It's a professional amplifier not intended for use at home. home amplifiers get all the sexy meters and all the fancy finishes on them and that's what you pay for and the name of course. Professional amplifiers on the other hand are not made to look pretty all you need to know is is there power, is there signal, and is it in a fault condition. You don't need meters you don't need lights blinking away all you want is pure sound without distortion and very high power levels. This one can drive down to two ohms. So basically 4 8 ohm speakers connected in parallel. you can't do that with your run of the mill consumer amplifier it would blow up the second you turned it on. That's the difference between a professional amp and a consumer. They're overbuilt, big transformers multiple transistors in parallel so that they're never seeing full load. That's how you make them reliable. Consumer equipment on the other hand is built to the minimum spec that it has to for a light loads and for the average person that's fine. Consumer amplifiers cost a lot less to make and sell for high profit margins through their retail Network. Professional amplifiers cost more to make but are generally sold direct or through the wholesale distribution chain and there's less markup per unit on a professional amp just due to the cost of the components in it and there's a lot more in an amplifier like this that there would be in a consumer model. But the consumer model is typically dolled up to look sexy or as a professional they don't care how it looks it's all about the sound.
I remember a time when i seemed to be replacing a lot of speakers only to find that the owners were using Hi-Fi speakers rated way below the output power of these amplifiers. After some expensive bills, most of the customers got the message. I would not like to be living next door to the owners of these amps, thay are way overkill for home use.
Want to quiet (i.e. replace) the fan on my VS900 for bridged 1100 watt power to subwoofer (light use for music...not a crazy basehead!). Is the fan AC or DC? Voltage? Sources?
Id take a sansui 4000 over anything. It is still the best looking and nicest sounding SS amplifier I have heard and I have had countless amplifiers. Luxman amps are right there with Sansui IMO.
@@edwardkunath17 one word.... Sansui. I have a b3000 as well and it sounds rough. Try changing the Caps on the signal board. It will help but it's still a sansewage and will always sound like sheet like all of them. I laugh as what people pay for mediocre equipment. Once you hear what a real amplifier sounds like you will know. Incidentally you won't hear a real amplifier, you will just hear the music. An amplifier should not add or remove anything from the music. These monster commercial power amps fit the bill. This one can produce 900 watts but in reality it probably doesn't even break 20 in normal use. It has the balls to do it though if the demand is there. Even at a moderate 20 watts there are like transitions that for 1 or 2 cycles can hit 80 or more watts a peek that is 6db above the average even if just for a couple cycles for say a kick drum or some loud transition. A 12 db transition a whopping 160 watts would be needed. Amp doesn't have the balls? Then it clips and sounds bad. An amp rates at 100 watts the way the Japanese rates gear could produce 1 cycle at that power cleanly. Some would say 100 continuous both channels driven and that was true, they could output a sign wave all day at rated power but that was their absolute limit. Try to go to 101 and distortion city. This one rated 450 per channel into 4 ohms 260 into 8. That's plenty of headroom and that is what you want. the more head room the better even though 99.9% of the time it is never needed. That's also what makes the class H amplifiers so cool. NAD proneered this, but the big boys, crest, (now Peavey) QSC all do this. They have a low and high rail power supply. The low rail is lower voltage high current and the high rail is high voltage low current. Normally the amp runs on the low voltage rail. The high voltage rail is there ready to go. If a high transient comes along the high rail can instantly be switched in to allow the transient to pass without distortion and this increases your dynamic overhead without resorting to a huge transformer to have a high voltage supply always online. (as that is very inefficient)
@@12voltvids Thanks for the info--well though out. I see several subjects for a some upcoming videos here: 1.What's not so great about Sansui. 2. Different amplifier types compared. 3. Specific amp pros and con, e.g. Class B. 4. Benefits of high and low voltage rails. 5. Why Pro amps can be better than "audiophile" amps. 6. Explanation of headroom.
I can have my sub at the lowest setting in the workshop and I can hear it across the street.. those low frequencies travel.. the dB level remains super low though.. If the neighbors called the cops -they could do nothing as it doesn't show up on a meter..but you sense it. A few late nights working resulted in some comments by a neighbour to my wife..but not to me of course.
I looked up a few preamps at the vintage audio store and let's just say I can't afford one. Like the cheapest one I saw was around 400 bucks which is more than double what I paid for the amp. They had one basic preamp that they are asking $1,000 for! Are they on drugs? This preamp sounds good you know I listen to it for quite a while yesterday on stuff that wasn't coming off of my MP3 player which doesn't have the best sound to begin with. I played my CD player in and played some really good CDs and I can't fault this preamp it sounds fantastic even with everything set to flat and I'm not someone for using tone controls. With the little bookshelf speakers I would be happy with that sound in the house I was really amazed and I have never heard those speakers sound that good. To me they always sounded kind of flat probably because I didn't have an amp that was capable of driving them properly as I think four of them speakers but amplifiers I put on them in the past have sounded relatively flat and this one brought these speakers to life and they really sounded good and I was very impressed. I can't wait to hear what this does when I put them on my B&W towers.
This one does 250 into 8 ohms 450 onto 4 and can do it all day long without breaking a sweat. Parallel caps of smaller size outperform larger as the esr is lower. Oh and the g9000 is rated 160 watts, so 90 less than this one per channel into 8 ohms. Good luck. This one will run down to 2 ohms as well try that with your sansewage.
It was built in USA. The amp I would but now is i were buying new would be one of the Canadian made Hafler models. They are the industry standard these days for recording studios. The original haffler turn the solid state amp world upside down when they brought out the DH 200 mosfet amp. Still one that I would like to have. The new ones still use mosfets and deliver some of the richest sounds that I've ever heard of the solid state amp. This crust is a class A B which is very accurate they don't make them like this much anymore because of the cost and the weight. Especially for touring apps which are hold around from one venue to the next they want high power lightweight so they're all moving to class d.
They still make excellent studio quality amplifiers in Canada. Hafler are made here now. Not cheap, but less than some vintage sansui receivers have gone for.
Of course small lite speakers will sound better off a high power amp: very low output impedance act as perfect electromagnetic damper of mechanical nonlinearities and resonances.
For a long time, Crest was the go-to brand for sound reinforcement systems when sound quality was the ultimate goal. And they're essentially bulletproof.
Today radial engineering is the gold standard from what i have heard. They have the Hafler brand. Made in Canada.
Because of your video, I just bought a VS900 to power a pair of Magnepan MG12s. Have owned them for ~10 years, but did not have an amplifier strong enough to drive them properly.
Yes it has power to spare.
Thank you for a wonderful and amazing night while I get caught up on my paperwork. I enjoyed turning on the AC after spending my late afternoon crawling around the attic fishing wires for new lighting!
Ac is awesome. Enjoying my now after a long day working out in the heat all day.
Seem to recall you doing another amp I think it was with a noisy fan keep up the great work love your videos I must do watching it now and it just before 2am here in UK
I use to have a QSC USA 850 Amp was hooked to a Pioneer sx 1280 using the preouts. I had homemade speakers with 18" subs. I used the qsc for the subs & i had and the pioneer for the mids & highs. i sold the qsc and the speakers to a DJ yrs ago but still have the 1280.
Great sounding amp. Best bang for the buck. Dear I say better than the Crest V series.
I have to say the Crest amplifier sounds amazing, it does not have typical pro amp sound. I built some Crown amps and something about them is not right, Crown amps have to much anti-oscillation compensation. Nice video I enjoyed it !
Nice amp. 160 volts peak into a 4 ohm load is 6400 watts. An astonishing amount of power, even compared to modern class D standards.
Rated 450 rms into 4 ohms. These pro amplifiers have plenty of reserve. And the kicker is they are not super expensive. They are real sleeper amplifiers. Now the variable bias (natural sound, new class a legato linear) will claim lower distortion. .003 vs .05 is splitting hairs. These ones creep up to about 1% when you get to full power but even at that, you won't hear it at that volume and the speakers will be adding their own at that sound pressure. So that is a moot point. Besides it's even order harmonics for the most part. Harmonic distortion is not real bad, intermodulation, or IMD is the nasty odd order distortion that makes cheap amps sound like crap.
I built a set of mini line-array speakers using 4x Eminence Alpha 6" mid-bass drivers and a stack of Goldwood ceramic horn tweeters -- apparently they're a hidden gem. They were built for mini PA use, and I had them running off a Crown XLS 202 at around 200W. I fired them up for testing in my garage and I don't know if I've ever felt physically assaulted by audio quite like that before. It was obviously too loud to listen to without hearing damage, but the mid-bass punch to the gut was so extreme it made me feel a bit funny after a minute or so. It was just insane. haha
This amp's input impedance is around 10kohm. Keep in mind some sources and preamps, especially tube output, will have a high ish output impedance, which will result in minor low pass filtering effects. Ideally stick with source impedance that's 1/10th the amp input impedance or less.
Nice amp congrats!
I think you mean high pass filtering?
Isn't that pretty typical? There's not much of a standard for line-level, since it's not balanced, and often seems to run anywhere between about 1K and 47K.
For the person who commented about the input impedance being a bit low, you can build an op amp buffer with whatever input impedance you like within reason. A 4558 should work nice. Use a pull from some old equipment or new old stock. JRC was the most common brand.
This one will accept low and high impedence. 600ohm balanced to high impedence unbalanced. There is a gain control on the back for each channel to match the input to whatever your preamp provides.
Yes these amplifiers are meant to be ran with a mixer. This is just a amplifier. Well some mixers have low gain where others have high Gain and then some have both low and high Gain that you can choose and pick from.😁 So this amplifier has a drive stage and output stage. So it doesn't come with a preamp built within the amplifier. The mixer is your preamp.😁 That's why most people that buy these amplifiers also buy a mixer and some speakers that can handle the power of the amplifier. Note pro audio speakers are designed and built differently than home audio speakers.
@@SS-mj2mq mixer or preamp. They are both the same. It will run balanced and unbalanced equally well.
@@12voltvids yes I agree 💖 and yes there are some preamps and mixers that are made of very low quality and don't do well as a preamp in my personal opinion so it's good to get a nice quality one. Preferably I prefer to build my own because I can build it the way I want with the right amount of gain custom built and suitable for the amplifier that I may own.😁
@@SS-mj2mq the sansui I am using actually sounds really good. I would like to get a vacuum tube preamp and will look for one.
Dave FYI consider AC Infinity's axial fans.....they make some of the most powerful/quietest fans out there at any price.
Well this one is silent now.
I know you fixed this one but for future info…,AC Infinity makes some of the best quality and reasonably priced fans I have come across
@@Sans_Solo_ there was nothing wrong with the fan. It was just running too fast as this is a pro amp. I slowed it down to quiet down the air flow slightly.
Real nice.
I thought the filter caps would of been bigger given the amps rating, but I don't know much about direct coupling. I have a couple nad c352 amps and the filters in there are 22000uf each! Overkill for an 80wpc amp. They need replacing as they are garbage and are bulging.
Anyway great vid as always.
The caps are in parallel so you double the capacity. Also remember the voltage is much higher than most amplifiers. These ones are running at 80 volts each most amplifiers are running in the 50 to 60 volt range some even lower. Plus it's got a big transformer that can resupply those capacitors very quickly so you don't need as big a caps. A lot of amplifiers use great big capacitors because the transformer can't supply enough current constantly so you need that reserve in the filters because it takes time to charge them back up. If you have a big transformer you don't need big filters but again these are in parallel so you double the capacity they did it that way just to reduce the physical size because the two capacitors themself are smaller than one of double capacity. There's also the reliability factor having multiple caps means less heat because they're physically smaller unless he means the lifespan will be longer. these caps really aren't working that much anyway because until you're at that extreme power saturation a full power they're not being depleted. They're just sitting there fully charged filtering out the incoming AC and living happy with a nice Cool breeze blowing over them to keep them cool. These will never fail and they're good American components. None of this Chinese crap.
@@12voltvids absolutely fantastic answer- highly appreciated certainly.
My family send greetings to you from Scotland. At my next opportunity I will send you some pennies for a nice bottle of wine 🙂🙂
One set of speakers I run in my home system are renkus heinz line array
loaded with 12" mc cauley's and Heinz drivers into conical horn's. I don't even think McCauley's are available anymore they were the best Professional loudspeakers back in the day. The reason I say this is a good set of high quality speakers will really show you the potential of this amplifier which is nothing short of musical Nirvana.
To the man who commented that this amplifier is stupid for home use he's right that's why I use four of them. 😂
As a born music lover and musician I have heard the best money can buy even been in a professional recording studio listening to 2-inch tape with this being said I challenge anyone to find an amplifier that sounds as good as this for $200. As a matter of fact I have owned all types of power amps including crown if you like your music natural clear and articulate with a huge Sound Stage this amplifier provides that in spades and yes it can piss off your neighbors four blocks away if you're feeling naughty 😂
Absolutely.
I can't get over how big the sound stage sounds on this one. Even out of small speakers this sounds incredible. I'm going to find a second one to operate in bridged mode for even more power!
@@12voltvids yes as long as I've been around audio this amplifier was the best kept secret until we came along
😂 a lot of people don't believe me when I tell them I push my crest amps with a Pioneer SX 680 used as a preamp and run a pair peavey Internationals 15" and horn running off the six 80s power. And as I have said I've heard the best systems money can buy but this setup is just magic and mind-blowing. Everything I throw at the crest comes out beautifully.
Literally I feel like a little kid again every time I play something new over the system. I should mention one of my vs900 has leaking caps so it's out of commission for now would you suggest sticking with the same value caps that are in it or raise the values? Oh and have a great time with your amplifier😋
@@iggyfritz7150 I would stick with original value. The engineers that designed it know a thing or 2. Just one look at the schematic and you understand how complex this amplifier really is. They've used every trick in the book to make this thing as musical as a possibly could. I generally listen to vacuum tube apps because I like how musical they are and how big the soundstage is and when I put this one on I was listening to it and it's like wow this is as close to a full vacuum tube amp as I've ever heard a solid state amp deliver. I haven't even put my good speakers on it yet blown away by these small bookshelf speakers when I get my big speakers connected I am sure i will have a permanent smile.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me yeah I have to admit when I open this thing up I was blown away at the Quality and I think you're absolutely right about the engineers knowing a thing or two as I said I have heard some of the most expensive amplifiers out there and this one lays waste the most and would stand up to the best money can buy you found a gem I hope you have a lot of fun as I have thank you again God bless
Was thinking about getting a nice high powered amp for my polk towers you have inspired me to find vs900 for my system
i have a crest audio ca4 , spent 20years working hard in a nightclub. but is now mine & hardly ever gets turned up loud now
Same here. Sounds great at low and moderate volumes. So much headroom. Have an andiosnoob cliant that rolls his eyes at pro audio saying it's crap with 1% distortion. Yes at full power 450wpc into 4 ohms it probably will hit 1% but at that volume who cares because your ears are already bleeding. At normal listening levels the distortion. Is very low .02 which is very good. My Technics is lower .003 at low level but that is a direct coupled class A
Nice amp, and some interesting approach about the cooling fan management.
I've already had to replace noisy fans, and that can be as challenging as giving really interesting results, as some fan manufacturers have developed better technology, giving more air for much less noise, lower consumption and increased longevity. At least, a new identical model is generally more silent with new bearings. To get a new fan, dimensions are important, but you also need voltages and initial performances, so it's ideal to get the flow rate or CFM data at nominal voltage. If you're lucky, many of these have a sticker with references leading to data on the internet. From there, the problem could be the way the fan is regulated, as most of PC fans have 3 or 4 wires, some needing a specific drive or a resistive command load. So you have to check for a more classic 2 wires model, or something that is provided with adapters. Anyway, additional lighting is a general proof of low quality, and some brands like Noctua are way more silent than their Sunon equivalent (the brand you generally expect to find in quality industrial equipment).
It's something interesting in many ways for 19" racks with UPS, servers, computers, NAS, pro audio and many other technologies requiring some forced air cooling.
There's also a peculiar point when cleaning these fans, the use of air flow can induce destructive high speed, particularly with magnetic suspended models. It's better to clean the blades with a soft brush or block any rotation when using compressed gas.
I've seen many high cost boomers repeatedly attacked and destroyed by the house feline! As cats hate olive oil scent, why not experiment, as it's natural and easy to find in many kitchens.
The laws of physics are a bitch......FANS are loud and annoying....lol.
Again, want to replace the fan. What is it (AC or DC?) and what voltage?
Wonder what that would sound like with a pair of JBL PRX 425 2 way 15 inch speakers.
I love Crest, I have an older pro-9200 running on 240v driving my horn subs loaded with Eminence nsw6021 21" woofers :)
So I guess that means you like Peavey also. 😁 PV is the makers of Crest audio amplifiers. And also PV uses the Eminence speaker factory to build their custom speakers. The only speakers that PV actually makes or produces in the factory is the Peavey Black widow and the Peavey Scorpion speakers. These particular speakers are genuine PV speaker and they can handle a lot of power. And the DB levels are high. So all in all pro audio speakers are what you need to get the most out of the pro audio amplifiers. Home audio speakers will not cut it. Most home audio speakers have a low level DB and most of them also use a first order crossover. Pro audio speakers however have a high levels of DB and used second order crossovers, third order crossover and also fourth order crossovers in their speaker designs. I know this because I actually build my own pro audio custom speakers and my own pro audio amplifiers.The transistors that are used in the pro audio amplifiers are specially designed in such a way to produce high levels of Gain. And can handle high voltages of current. And also some of the transistors have a very fast slew rate as well as fast response to sound. One good example is the TLO72 op amp it has a very fast slew rate. And it is also a low noise op amp. Meaning that it produces a very high quality level of sound with a fast response to sound.
@@SS-mj2mq Now they are yes, but the 9200 is a few years old, I think it was their first line of class D amps, so it's only a 2u unit that will do 3000w x2 in 2r.
It's the flagship they made after they stopped making the absolute beast that was the 10001.
@@drdyna I have an old PV 1.3 k that I completely rebuilt every transistor diode cap resistors transistors rectifier drive transistors and also the op-amps and more. It took me a month to rebuild taking all the parts out and redoing all the boards with new components I ordered all the parts direct from PV parts this thing weighs a hundred pounds and produces 2,110 watts of pure power into a 2-ohm load 1,055 watts per channel. This thing is a tank! 😂 The extra 110 watts is for headroom so that it won't clip at the 2000 watt output mark. It cost me $500 all together plus my time. I love the old amplifiers you can't beat them. Well the only thing I didn't replace was the power switch cooling fan transformer and some of the wires all other components were replaced. It's hard to find the power switch. The cooling fan is very expensive it runs off of 120 volts. And the transformers massive and it would be hard to find as well the transformer is most of the weight of the amplifier 😂 thanks for reading have a great day 🤗 well I wanted to add one more thing when you're ordering parts from PV you have to look at the schematics and give them the part numbers you can't just say I need a 3.8 k resistor or a 2.2 uf capacitor it took me forever just to get parts lol. I was on the phone for hours and hours just trying to get the parts and some were obsolete so they sent me the equivalent or cross reference parts because of the age of the amplifier but I got it rebuilt and up and running works and sounds great.
@@SS-mj2mq I can't agree with the home audio speakers bit. Home and Pro stuff are designed with _completely_ different goals.
For Pro speakers, the main criteria is efficiency. Convert as much power into sound as possible, because you need a lot of sound, and lower efficiency requires higher power, and higher power is difficult to get, expensive to handle (the amp stages, cooling, cabling, everything), and turns into heat, which then _also_ has to be dealt with -- ultimately, by the voice coils and crossover components.
For Home, the goal is a target response curve. Whether that's flat, smiley-EQ, and/or designed to compensate for a typical distance from walls, floors, and ceilings. A lot of power has to be "wasted" to equalize the response in the crossover, which can only shed power, not boost it.
Pro speakers don't care about flat response. You're a pro, you have an EQ, so use it. Its ideal configuration depends on the venue anyway. And it's WAY more efficient to tailor the response curve at line level than at speaker level, and then amplify or bi-amplify or tri-amplify as necessary.
A home speaker may be half as loud, or less, with the same power compared to a pro speaker. That negates _some_ of the power advantage that a pro amp would have, such that a pro speaker on a home amp will be pretty comparable to a home speaker on a pro amp. Using a pro speaker on a pro amp in a home is a recipe for hearing damage. There's just no need for >105dB continuous at the listening position. And if you're not going to turn it up that much, why bring out the big guns, and then deal with all the inconveniences of pro-audio gear (like lack of remote turn-on, the necessity of EQ, the RCA to XLR or 1/4" cables and Speakon connectors you'll probably have to have, loud fans, etc..)
Edit: Oh, also... I wouldn't say "most" home speakers use a 1st-order xover, and that pro uses 2nd, 3rd, or 4th as a rule. Home speakers of any decent quality will have been designed with a balance of smooth XO transition and limiting distortion. Woofer cones get directional and often have response abnormalities above 1KHz, and tweeters need a higher XO point to keep from hitting excursion and power handling issues. There may only be a 1st-order filter in the XO itself, but there's a really good chance the woofer's roll-off counts as another order, and is being intentionally accounted-for. The tweeter is likely at least 2nd order, and many are 3rd. Whatever aligns the response and/or phase the best.
Much of this applies to pro as well, except there's also a chance this is being done electronically before the amps, and the details depend solely on the operator's understanding of filter applications, and even how to use their equipment properly. (Although a two-way top with its own internal XO is pretty common as well.)
@@nickwallette6201 pretty much what I was saying but with less detail. You do not mix home audio and pro audio amplifiers together it just won't work but people do it but it and it does not sound good 😊 Plus home audio speakers definitely can not handle the output power of a high-end high powered professional audio amplifier. I actually build custom amplifiers from the ground up and I even build custom boxes and crossovers the big thing is for good sound quality is to get everything that you build up to correct specs and that's using a lot of math and formulas and even high grade high quality parts and so forth and so forth. That's why most of your professional amplifier designers and engineers also build speakers and mixers for their products. For example JBL suggests Crown amplifiers for their speaker products. And of course Peavey has their own line of speakers. But PV is known to have Eminence custom build their speakers as well. Want to add one more little note having the correct gauge wire is very important when it comes to high-powered amplifiers you can actually kill a amplifier or burn up the wire and even the speakers. And it's nice to have a little bit of extra headroom when it comes to your speakers also so you don't fry your speakers.😊
Tenho um QSC 1400 aqui no Brasil/Sao Paulo bem parecido na contruçao eletrica com esse modelo da Crest. sao otimos equipamentos de amplificadores de som, eu uso em casa tambem.
I picked up a VS900 from a local ham get together a few months back for $10. One channel was in protection. Easy fix though and have been running it since. Very nice sounding amp. I plan on drilling out two holes in the back right above the screw terminal inputs and installing a pair of XLR inputs. I run many pro amps and several of my home audio preamps have XLR out so that would come in very handy.
Curious, did these come stock with Nichicon Muse capacitors in the amp section? I see a handful of Muse (KZ), but then in the power supply cheaper caps like Surge (brand)? Never heard of the them, but I see them and think cheap Chinese, and Illinois. Nothing wrong with Illinois, but never thought of them as great like some Nichicon and Panasonic series. Are surge decent? Anyways, if the Muse are original to the amp I may as well do a recap anyways as these are approaching what, 25-30 years of age?
25 is nothing for these. I wouldn't touch them till it is closer to 50. Remember this a direct coupled amp. The caps are just AC filters in the power supply, so they won't affect the sound. When they go bad you will know it as you will have AC hum. One of the reasons it sounds so good is because it is a direct coupled amp.
@@12voltvids so what was the purpose of using the Nichicon Muse in it? I haven’t looked at the schematic, but I’d have to assume that they’re in the signal path. Also you should look at possibly finding a preamp with a bit more output voltage. Or maybe your source is at a lower level than say a CD player (iPod for example). With this same amp my Sony ES preamp can drive the amp into clipping at like 1 o’clock on the volume. I see with your preamp you have to hit 9-10 before much output and going to 3-4 o’clock and those little polks taking it! Maybe it’s just in the video. Enjoy, wonderful amp!
@@danhorton6182
There is probably 1 on the input of each channel to negate any DC offset that could be present on input. Otherwise you would have a huge DC voltage sent to your speakers. So it is common to put a single cap at the input to block DC.
@@12voltvids right, exactly my thought, but maybe not. If you happen to open yours up again I’d be interested to know if C8, C13, C102, and C202 are 100uF 50V KZ. You don’t see these used from a factory piece unless it’s a fairly high end piece, they aren’t cheap capacitors. I assumed that they were aftermarket, but they look awfully similar in your amp.
I use 2nd-hand Crown XLS amps in my home setup. Fans don't kick on, pretty much ever. The bottom of the line 1002 model has power about equal to this crest.
Yeah Dave.......nothing like some clean music to rattle a musical typhoon through your auditory canals ( What wax ?) It even made an improved sound from my Sony desktop system with sub-woofer. By the way, what are your favorite 3 speaker design/manufacturers for floor free-standing speakers ( 12 in. woofers min ) JwgK
It's all about the headroom when it come to amplification IMO.
Absolutely 100% correct. Big power has plenty of reserve when though 99.9% of the time it is not needed it needs to be there for loud transients
I'd love a crest amp. Ive had Crown K2's and QSC's in the past, But now got Peavey. and damn you should see the size of the filter caps in it :D
Literally 6-7cm wide, and 7-8cm tall! 2 big huge things hahaha
Used some Crest stacks in a few clubs.. never had an issue with them. We ran sound in Mono and that's where you get some real juicy stuff going on with that Bridge. It's like.. oh that's super loud.. it's only at 4 😂 They look like Military spec inside.. nice layout never cracked one open ..because we never had to ! LOL I mostly ran Rane mixers... a great clean compliment for audio signal input.
If I can find another I will grab it for sure and run a pair in bridge mode.
Jesus Christ that's allot of power. You could power a NiN comcert with that thing.
No audio enthusiast ime would dare run bridged in a car or a home.
Recently I actually went the opposite route, I downsized the amplifier section from an 80+80 W pre-amp + booster amp to an integrated 30 + 30 W. Less space, less heat, same volume with my bookshelf speakers. Unless you have very big tower speakers, you will rarely need 200 W of audio power in a home audio system. And personally I get irritated by a noisy CD player (servo noises, spindle rotation), I could not stand a fan always running no matter the speed.
Fans are good they keep everything cool. He does enemy number one for all electronics. The fan now runs at such a low speed that you can't hear it unless you put your ear right up to it. Even with no music playing you don't hear it the fan on the ceiling makes more noise.
Enrico this kind of power for a home is plain stupid really
@@Synthematix
I will respectfully disagree. I have been doing a/b comparisons all night. Listening to the same music on same brand model speakers comparing my 50 watt akai and the new crest. The difference is striking. Like listening to 2 different recordings. Instruments pop in the mid-range. It sounds very much like my vacuum tube amp but with a shitload more punch. I wasn't driving ear splitting levels as I had to keep the 50wpc amp out of the red but even at this level the sound differences were incredible. I have very good hearing for my age and as a musician I listen for specific instruments as i analyze recordings. I listen for the subtile sounds and I tell you the difference is amazing. It's all about dynamics. Even at a comfortable 40 or so watts music power dynamics on the music will require power peaking at over 100 watts easily and well the 50 watt amplifier just can't manage that power. A big amp does it without a consideration. Tube amps have always have had good dynamics but to get big power on tubes requires lots of tubes and big transformers. I have always prefer the sound of tubes but this amp is changing my mind quickly. You don't see home amplifiers in recording studios, you see big professional amplifiers like this for the mix sessions.
@@12voltvids Yea, older amps do tend to sound better i dont deny that, ive got a couple of old onkyos and sonys from 1980 nothing today touches them today for sound quality, today theyre mostly plastic crap with cheap components. the best combination is a good transistor amp paired with a valve preamp. then you get the power of transistors with the warmth of tubes.
@@12voltvids I have a few pro-audio amps that I use for... well, pro-audio. My main takeaway is that they have a little more hiss, because the gain staging isn't optimized for a couple watts, it's meant to drive big speakers, and to drive them loudly, where a whisper of hiss is pretty much inconsequential.
I've never done A/B comparisons to a reasonably-sized amp for home use. I've always felt that around 100 WPC is enough for anyone, unless you've got some really inefficient speakers that drop a ton of voltage in the crossover, or have a high-impedance coil, or something else exotic. Most of what most of us are willing to listen to is well within 10W, and a 10x ceiling for transients seems pretty generous. If I'm cranking it to "OSHA be gosh-darned" levels, then I can cope with a little compression.
I have, however, gotten curious about using much more efficient drivers. I started a project to use some Eminence Alpha drivers in a large box, and have a couple compression drivers, with a couple matching horns to play with, and some ribbons for comparison. That little sojourn started when, for the lols, I connected a 4x10 + horn bass cab to my receiver as a center channel speaker. It wasn't HiFi for sure, but there was an incredible cinema-like clarity to the dialogue that demanded notice, and therefore, experimentation. Of course, I'm like a ferret with projects, and my "test box" has been sitting in the same place for a couple years, waiting for me to get around to feeding it test tones into an RTA, and building DSP profiles of simulated crossovers, and all the other design dirty work that goes along with it. Some day.
Have you ever worked on an onkyo M508? What is your opinion on those?
I have 2 of them. One only sounds on one side, any idea what is the problem. I like to fix it
I'm sure we used to get crest electrical items in the UK years ago.
The crest amplifiers are still available they're owned by Peavey now. Another great amplifier if you're looking for a good North American built amplifier would be one of the new hafler amplifiers. They're made in Canada in Port Moody British Columbia by radial engineering. They also make the dinoco St 70 tube amplifier as well at the same factory in Port Moody. I would have one of their amplifiers as well but I wasn't looking to spend a bunch of bucks on a new one and I found this one for a good deal so I'm happy.
Hi Sir, nice amp. how does the variable loudness control work
Same as it does on Yamaha. Adds more low end and top end at lower volumes.
Nice sound wow! Even if you paid 200 dlls is worth the effort anjoy
200 would be about the right price for a unit if this quality. If you look on eBay you will see that many have sold for closer to 500usd. Even 300 would be considered a good price considering what you are getting. I am totally satisfied with this one. Will hook it up to my big speakers next week.
@@12voltvids are you still using this crest amp? How did it work with big speakers? I'm thinking of picking one up locally to pair with polk sda speakers which take 300+ watts to open up.
@@kgu9870 absolutely. It sounds fantastic driving my B&W speakers. Shakes the walls nicely.
Take it not heard of the Yamaha h-5000? 550watts per channel 8ohms. Dual mono and sounds more hifi home audio than it does Pa hence why I loved using them for live sound. Didn’t have that harshness of some of big Pa units.
This one is not harsh. Very smooth.
@@12voltvids have to have a listen to one if I get my hands on one. Many of these pa units are being soaked up by audio buffs. Even BK electronics made some nice units and again some audio buffs are buying into those
@@23chilled for good reason. Tons of head room. The amp barely has to work. Fan noise is a common complaint. This can be mitigated by changing the low speed resistor as I did or changing the fan to a low voltage DC fan but that will require its own power supply. Don't want to induce noise into audio signal path by tapping into existing supply.
Can you tell me the IC power modular number on the IC on the back of the amplifier mounted inside i lost mine and know one knows nothing I searched the entire internet
Sorry I don't know what it is.
@@12voltvids no the numbers right there on the part I need the number that's on the part on that I see modular right on the back of the amp
hell yes
I have a Qsc 1400 200w par channel , 16 transitors. i found fan AC at the back to noisy at low volume , i disconect the low speed , i add at the back 12vots DC and ajuste the speed for the lower noise , for security i leave the high speed fan circuit , the start the ac Fan at 50C .
Well running the ac fan at low speed also solved the noise problem.
@@12voltvids my motor is look like a motor of BSR turntable , i try with bigger ressitance the motor is shacking or stalling , i dont have triac on my circuit..
@@robertvirago1956 some just use a thermal switch to switch it to high speed mode when the switch is open everything goes through the resistor for the slow speed once the heat sink reaches a certain temperature of the switch mechanically closes and it gives full power works the same way. The modern way is how my amp is set up where it not only monitors the temperature but it also monitors the output power. So if I crank it up for example it doesn't have to get hot before it turns the fan speed up if I crank it up it will speed the fan up immediately the premise behind that is if it's that loud you're not going to hear it but as soon as the volume level drops the fan goes back to the solar speed so again you won't hear it the only time you would hear it is if you had been pounding it at full power and it got hot and then you suddenly turn the volume down if it had gone into thermal cooling mode the fan would continue to run for a few minutes to cool it down and then go back to the slow speed. What you have would work like that the fan would continue to run until it cooled. The new design because it puts the fan into high speed before it actually gets hot it will keep it from getting hot so once the volume is reduced the fan can slow down again because it hasn't gotten hot. Anyway I ran this at some pretty good volume yesterday and it never even got warm.
@@12voltvids il will download the diagram of your circuit , i will try analyse how is working , thanks for explication
I Also use a professional amp for my home audio use but my main woofer speakers are 12 inch (750 Watt) with 2.5inch coils and they sound much better than those smaller speakers which I have tested, I am even thinking of going with 15 inch speakers with a 3.5 inch voice coil for extremely loud playing as I think the 12's are overpowered at 2/3 high volume. If you like how the Crest Amp performs with the small speakers you should try them with larger higher wattage speakers you might be blown away with the performance. Even listening at lower volume I prefer the larger speakers as they give a better "Presence" and kick to the sound that makes it more enjoyable in my opinion.
I have some big woofers in the house. 14" woofers should shake the house off the foundation nicely. The thing is I don't generally listen to music really loud I'm after the clarity. This is why over the last 40 years I've been using lower powered vacuum tube amplifiers just because of the sound. I have a couple of 110 and 120 watt per channel solid state amps and I've never been all that impressed with the sound. From what I heard with this one yesterday I was impressed with how it sounded on the small speakers I can just imagine how much better the big speakers will sound. The direct coupled amplifiers these days are very good and very transparent. Of course the advantage to having big power is not that you need big power but you need the headroom for high power transients that can come along in music. Sometimes these transients aren't even audible but when you get certain sounds that mix together they require a much larger amplified signal so that the speaker can reproduce the sound accurately and a lower powered amplifier that runs out of steam is going to distort and clip this sound. What are the benefits to using professional gear is it designed for PA use where accidents can happen. You could get feedback you could get hum you can get all kinds of stuff that happens especially on a live performance that could drive an amplifier beyond its design limit. What these commercial amps do is they have an attenuator built in they will automatically cut the level just before the amp goes into clipping. In other words compress the signal slightly to keep the amp from going into clipping thereby saving your speakers this is a feature that most consumer home amplifiers do not have. When it's not needed of course it's not going to do anything but if you ever find yourself in a situation where you have overdriven and your amp could go into clipping it's nice to know that that circuit is there. NAD we're one of the companies that had the soft clip option on their consumer amplifiers
the hahahaha with 450 watts
That's into 4 ohms, per channel. This sucker will put out 1200 into 2 ohms in mono bridged mode. 8 ohms it is more like 250 per channel. Still enough to crack the plaster.
I don't know if I was being told the truth about this or not. When I was younger there was an audio shop (car audio) in my local town and I knew the guy previously he and his wife ran a Radio Shack franchise. Anyway it played out and they, well him ran the car audio for a short time. He sold an amp that guaranteed 40 watts of constant power and wouldn't clip because the amplifier chips weren't designed that way, so it was very much like commercial amps concerning the clean signal output. The power wire required was quite large for only 40 watts per channel so there may have been truth in what he told me. He explained that popular amps had a cut off if the current went too high, he said not so with this guaranteed 40 watt "no matter the frequency" amp.
My VS900 arrived. How long should I warm in up on my Variac?
Warm up? Just plug it in.
Too cool I've been using this same model for the last 6 or so years. In my room the fan is too loud for my liking. . Poor thing has been switched to my more seldom rear ATMOS channel duties, as opposed to running my fronts{buzzing} Ended up switching to a similar power 3 channel Amp. without fan for my front 3.
The original manual for this is neat. Has a whole page of very specific specifications. Can easily be found with google.
That's why i modded the low speed fan setting. Now it is inaudible and if I were to be pounding the music through this to the point where the fan was running you wouldn't hear it anyway. What am I application I'm not playing music at 140 decibels generally so the fan should never even get to that high-speed mode for what I'll be using this for. For me it's about sound quality. I've always used a tube amp in the past because I like the sound that two bands provide. I have a Technics SUV 9 which is a great sounding amplifier in my studio. But other vintage apps that I've been running like my sansui 9090 for example just don't seem to cut it. So I keep going back to the tube amp because of the sound. The thing is the tube amp only is 40 watts per channel, so it doesn't have the dynamic power available for some reason punchy bass. From my preliminary listing to this one I would say that that problem is solved and it sounds sweet in the mids like my tube app. You know the saying right if you can't get the mid-range right then nothing else matters. So far this one's getting everything right very impressed. Would have been a bargain that twice the price.
It looks similar to ones I used in clubs.. maybe that's what this model is made for.. not a quiet living room?
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 clubs churches movie theaters recording studios. It's a professional amplifier not intended for use at home. home amplifiers get all the sexy meters and all the fancy finishes on them and that's what you pay for and the name of course. Professional amplifiers on the other hand are not made to look pretty all you need to know is is there power, is there signal, and is it in a fault condition. You don't need meters you don't need lights blinking away all you want is pure sound without distortion and very high power levels. This one can drive down to two ohms. So basically 4 8 ohm speakers connected in parallel. you can't do that with your run of the mill consumer amplifier it would blow up the second you turned it on. That's the difference between a professional amp and a consumer. They're overbuilt, big transformers multiple transistors in parallel so that they're never seeing full load. That's how you make them reliable. Consumer equipment on the other hand is built to the minimum spec that it has to for a light loads and for the average person that's fine. Consumer amplifiers cost a lot less to make and sell for high profit margins through their retail Network. Professional amplifiers cost more to make but are generally sold direct or through the wholesale distribution chain and there's less markup per unit on a professional amp just due to the cost of the components in it and there's a lot more in an amplifier like this that there would be in a consumer model. But the consumer model is typically dolled up to look sexy or as a professional they don't care how it looks it's all about the sound.
I remember a time when i seemed to be replacing a lot of speakers only to find that the owners
were using Hi-Fi speakers rated way below the output power of these amplifiers.
After some expensive bills, most of the customers got the message.
I would not like to be living next door to the owners of these amps, thay are way overkill
for home use.
Want to quiet (i.e. replace) the fan on my VS900 for bridged 1100 watt power to subwoofer (light use for music...not a crazy basehead!). Is the fan AC or DC? Voltage? Sources?
Ac
What fan did you use?
Does the Crest Audio VS450 sound the same built same quality..? Thanks..!! Need a spare amp / sub amp..Thanks..!!
I'm sure it does just lower power
Id take a sansui 4000 over anything. It is still the best looking and nicest sounding SS amplifier I have heard and I have had countless amplifiers. Luxman amps are right there with Sansui IMO.
I have a sansui b3000 and it sounds like shit, just like my 9090 and yes it was totally recapped. Still sounds like crap.
@@12voltvids Why would a Sansui B3000 sound bad?
@@edwardkunath17 one word.... Sansui. I have a b3000 as well and it sounds rough. Try changing the Caps on the signal board. It will help but it's still a sansewage and will always sound like sheet like all of them. I laugh as what people pay for mediocre equipment. Once you hear what a real amplifier sounds like you will know. Incidentally you won't hear a real amplifier, you will just hear the music. An amplifier should not add or remove anything from the music. These monster commercial power amps fit the bill. This one can produce 900 watts but in reality it probably doesn't even break 20 in normal use. It has the balls to do it though if the demand is there. Even at a moderate 20 watts there are like transitions that for 1 or 2 cycles can hit 80 or more watts a peek that is 6db above the average even if just for a couple cycles for say a kick drum or some loud transition. A 12 db transition a whopping 160 watts would be needed. Amp doesn't have the balls? Then it clips and sounds bad. An amp rates at 100 watts the way the Japanese rates gear could produce 1 cycle at that power cleanly. Some would say 100 continuous both channels driven and that was true, they could output a sign wave all day at rated power but that was their absolute limit. Try to go to 101 and distortion city. This one rated 450 per channel into 4 ohms 260 into 8. That's plenty of headroom and that is what you want. the more head room the better even though 99.9% of the time it is never needed. That's also what makes the class H amplifiers so cool. NAD proneered this, but the big boys, crest, (now Peavey) QSC all do this. They have a low and high rail power supply. The low rail is lower voltage high current and the high rail is high voltage low current. Normally the amp runs on the low voltage rail. The high voltage rail is there ready to go. If a high transient comes along the high rail can instantly be switched in to allow the transient to pass without distortion and this increases your dynamic overhead without resorting to a huge transformer to have a high voltage supply always online. (as that is very inefficient)
@@12voltvids Thanks for the info--well though out. I see several subjects for a some upcoming videos here: 1.What's not so great about Sansui. 2. Different amplifier types compared. 3. Specific amp pros and con, e.g. Class B. 4. Benefits of high and low voltage rails. 5. Why Pro amps can be better than "audiophile" amps. 6. Explanation of headroom.
@@edwardkunath17 great ideas for when things get slow around here if that ever happens
does it sound better than your yaquin valve amp??
Once i hook it to those speakers I will know.
Nice Repair
👍👍
And your not allowed a sub woofer because of noise
Then I wish you luck with mts 12volts with this beauty 😍 ❤️
She doesn't like subs on movies and TV. Music is different because i generally listen when nobody home. Otherwise i get yelled at to turn it down.
I don't have a Mrs, problem solved. 😀😀😀
I can have my sub at the lowest setting in the workshop and I can hear it across the street.. those low frequencies travel.. the dB level remains super low though.. If the neighbors called the cops -they could do nothing as it doesn't show up on a meter..but you sense it. A few late nights working resulted in some comments by a neighbour to my wife..but not to me of course.
Nice Amp, though your pre is giving justice to it.
I looked up a few preamps at the vintage audio store and let's just say I can't afford one. Like the cheapest one I saw was around 400 bucks which is more than double what I paid for the amp. They had one basic preamp that they are asking $1,000 for! Are they on drugs? This preamp sounds good you know I listen to it for quite a while yesterday on stuff that wasn't coming off of my MP3 player which doesn't have the best sound to begin with. I played my CD player in and played some really good CDs and I can't fault this preamp it sounds fantastic even with everything set to flat and I'm not someone for using tone controls. With the little bookshelf speakers I would be happy with that sound in the house I was really amazed and I have never heard those speakers sound that good. To me they always sounded kind of flat probably because I didn't have an amp that was capable of driving them properly as I think four of them speakers but amplifiers I put on them in the past have sounded relatively flat and this one brought these speakers to life and they really sounded good and I was very impressed. I can't wait to hear what this does when I put them on my B&W towers.
Neighbour from 4 houses down the street: "That's too damn loud!"
What? Can't hear you, my ears are still ringing.
Looking at the size of the transformer and caps, I think I'll stick with my Sansui G9000 with 180+ REAL WATTS per ch.
This one does 250 into 8 ohms 450 onto 4 and can do it all day long without breaking a sweat. Parallel caps of smaller size outperform larger as the esr is lower. Oh and the g9000 is rated 160 watts, so 90 less than this one per channel into 8 ohms. Good luck. This one will run down to 2 ohms as well try that with your sansewage.
Actually, most original fans were noisy when they were dirty. Common in the computer world.
When things weren't just 'designed' in the USA .
It was built in USA. The amp I would but now is i were buying new would be one of the Canadian made Hafler models. They are the industry standard these days for recording studios. The original haffler turn the solid state amp world upside down when they brought out the DH 200 mosfet amp. Still one that I would like to have. The new ones still use mosfets and deliver some of the richest sounds that I've ever heard of the solid state amp. This crust is a class A B which is very accurate they don't make them like this much anymore because of the cost and the weight. Especially for touring apps which are hold around from one venue to the next they want high power lightweight so they're all moving to class d.
@@12voltvids Yeah man Hafler were a game changer.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 sure were. The new ones are amazing. And made in Canada.
Wait till you hear Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon with this amp hold on to your seat😜
Oooooo good idea. DSOTM.
A time when things were made in USA 🇺🇸
They still make excellent studio quality amplifiers in Canada. Hafler are made here now. Not cheap, but less than some vintage sansui receivers have gone for.
Did you say crest was made by peavey????? And not the toothpaste-lol!!!!
Yup crest audio is owned by Peavey. They bought them in 1999. This one is 1997 vintage. I believe they production shifted to Mexico.
Of course small lite speakers will sound better off a high power amp: very low output impedance act as perfect electromagnetic damper of mechanical nonlinearities and resonances.
Big speakers benefit from good dampening too.
hurry up timer