Getting the Commander X16 running
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- A discussion about what the Commander X16 is and how I went about getting it working. Sorry, I didn't record any footage on the actual troubleshooting I did, as I explain in this video.
0:00 Reenactment of getting the system working
0:28 Intro
3:15 What is the Commander X16?
19:52 How I got involved with this project
21:49 The troubleshooting steps I took to get this working
Back to normal Mail Call videos next week.
--- Video Links
Commander X16
www.commanderx16.com/forum/in...
Kevin @ Texelec X16 update videos:
• Commander X16 - Proto ...
More on the hardware updates between Revision 1 and 2 including running a game on the now working hardware:
• Commander X16 Hardware...
VERA FPGA video board designed by Frank van den Hoef:
www.commanderx16.com/forum/in...
SID tunes on the VERA: (via an emulator)
• Commander X16 : Rob Hu...
Online emulator:
www.commanderx16.com/emulator...
Emulator for Windows/Mac/Linux:
www.commanderx16.com/forum/fi...
VERA Programming Guide:
github.com/commanderx16/x16-d...
--- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.16...
Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
amzn.to/2VazxDS
www.jonard.com/Products/EX-2-...
Wiha Chip Lifter:
amzn.to/3a9ftWw
www.wihatools.com/precision-c...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress.com/item/33000...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/itm/TS100-65W-MI...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-DS...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-5-10PCS-...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32537...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/misterblack1?tab=r...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorecomputerclub.com/
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino
Outro Music:
Abyss by | e s c p | escp-music.bandcamp.com
Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
creativecommons.org/licenses/... - Наука та технологія
I love Adrian's sense of time.
I totally get it though! He doesn't truly go into detail with his fixes, unlike any of his other videos. Fascinating stuff
3:01: Whenever a UA-camr like him announces it's going to be a short video, you know it's going to be at least twenty minutes, if not some multiple of that.
@@ropersonline Really whenever Adrian says this will be short, make popcorn, you're in for a feature-length film. :B
I bet a quickie with his BF takes an hour.
Mine seems to match his pretty well. I’m autistic and wonder if he also might be. (I’ve also had “short” 60-75 minute phone calls with, say, my father about foreign train timetables decades ago.)
Fantastic work Adrian, or should I say X16cellent! You're now an official Commando. 🎉
Your friend in retro, Perifractic
Adrian: "It's a nibble sized video"
Me after 41 minutes: *burp* "That was an entire meal!"
He discussed only ONE item he received this time, instead of boxes full!
@@ruawhitepaw And there was no Haribos :-(
@@zeero4ever You haven't watched Kevin's video. There were haribo's sent allongside the board. Adrian just didn't mention it.
@@galier2 I was talking about THIS video. Adrian talks 45 Minutes about 1 Item, even without discussing Haribos ;-)
Expected a nybble, got a byte
Adrian, I really respect your humility. I think it's what makes your enthusiasm for all you do genuine.
It's pretty uncommon in my experience to see someone so tremendously intelligent and with such great analytical skills who's also modest, unassuming, and down to earth.
Intelligent? Here me out Bec tbh it’s not fair you just winged a project that is years in the making David would have researched anything for weeks before doing anything on it ... just shows the passion ain’t there and tbh you not knowing that this was David’s creation and he is the first maker of the board and concept shows a lot ... wish you would have delved into the origins and history of why David wanted to build such a board and pc if you would understand that I think it would be better if he educated him self around the board instead of making just a tech video explaining a bunch of non sense
"Not long video" he says .... 42 Minutes later ... love it :)!
I was thinking that haha. Maybe Canadians measure time in a diferent way hahah
LOL, you saved me from making the same comment. LOL
When you have watched LockPickingLawyer's videos, then you know what "not long" videos are.
Adrian's Digital Basement - Redefining 'Nibble'. LOL.
mail call mini = 45minutes at least.
not a long video = 45 minutes as well. lmao I love it.
Years ago my friend was working on an analog neural network interface and the first pcb didn’t work while the prototype wire wrap did. He worked for two days trying to find out why and couldn’t. I told him I’d take a look and in a couple hours figured out that his prototype differed from the schematic. Two input pins were crossed. A simple program change fixed it without reworking the pcb.
"Like a bloodhound, Adrian jumped on the board and literally within a few days he found the source of the problem causing most of the issues ... without him I really don't know if I would have been able to put it back together" -- Kevin Williams
High praise indeed. You sir, do have expertise. Passion and perseverance count 100x more in my book than any rote knowledge. What you don't know can be learned, but drive can't be taught, that comes from within.
Morale of the story? Always RTFM! :) Excited to see progress with this, keep it up!
A wild Ben has appeared
Hey Ben
Moral not morale.
Well DIY community moves to QA territory. Hardware industry has integrated circuit emulators for that exact reason. At some point when system scales up you can not visualize all steps at once. Very nice problem solving, you should get into commercial with these skills.
Sometimes, when you're too close, too deep, doing too many things into a project, you miss things. Happens to the best of us. Also, Kudos to you, Adrian! Troubleshooting broken, production units is very different from troubleshooting prototypes. I've seen many experienced RMA tech brought to their knees by prototypes. So, thanks for that behind the scene view and your experience!
Adrian, wow! You’ve definitely underestimated your own learning and teaching capabilities.
It’s really amazing to see how far you’ve come from the beginning of your channel, right up until now. And you’re still learning a lot of things with each repair you do. It really keeps me stimulated and I really recognize a lot of myself in your way of working.
Thank you for your awesome video’s!
I love how humble you are Adrian.
Keep up the good work!
"I'm just a hobbyist...but here's your working board"
But he doesn’t dare show it running. That’s Kevin’s privilege! :)
I'm just a hobbyist too, but I am several dozen levels below Adrian's 'hobbist' standard - top video, nice one!
yet in his compaq deskpro series he did a hex edit on one bit in the rom
Seriously, he could be making $250K a year doing this kind of work. If this was a giant company with this kind of board issue he would have saved them millions.
There is no economic incentives that exist in the modern world to spend time debugging and fixing computer hardware to the level of analysis (excepting the hardware design phase) that Adrian does with all the retro (and now neo-retro) gear that he has videoed over the past few years. Is hard to imagine that there is anyone out there that might exceed his knack for doing such repairs.
the way you go about troubleshooting bad boards has always impressed me, amazing work!
Adrian, wonderful, wonderful work. Glad to see you're helping them with this. One thing I'd suggest, that you ask them to add in the next revision is a plethora of test points. There's lots of space on the board, and adding little breakout pads for you to drop a scope probe (along with grounding points) would help troubleshooting a lot. You're definitely right about status LEDs though. Crucial for troubleshooting.
Commander X16 and Adrian Black? I'm so pulling up the chair for this one!!!1
I've been following this machine since the start and had no idea it was finished
@@thomassmith4999 iirc it isn’t
Thanks really need this today. I so upset that these things are happening in our nation. I need something like your video to help settle me down. My anxiety and blood pressure as never been so high.
My very first Z80 project worked at 4MHz. Well, not worked. The clock was 4MHz. It used 2 Z80 PIO’s, and when I went to 2.5MHz, EVERYTHING worked perfectly.
And that was my first introduction to timing diagrams and the unbelievable importance of making sure you understand what the manufacturer wants you to know via those diagrams. Tons of information in those diagrams. I borrowed a scope and found a LS138 I/O decoder that was fine at 2.5MHz, but too slow at 4MHz. I used another IC by another manufacturer (from Texas), and it worked at 4MHz and thus I learned (the very hard way) to read those timing diagrams.
That little project is still running today. (I love the Z80. It is an outstanding processor.)
Thanks for a GREAT video, Adrian! Very good to see your skills growing by leaps and bounds!!
You're too humble Adrian. It sounds like you helped the project out way more than you're taking credit for. A job well done 👍
0:06 Oscar winning performance!
Big Clive would be proud of your camera work
LOL!
BigClive would have pink jump wires :-)
A couple of years ago I stumbled on a recommended video about a C64 that was left outside to die and you got it back to life. This was the moment that I was (hesitant at first, because why another retrochannel?) certain to subscribe, because I knew you had the absolute TALENT to troubleshoot this stuff. Measurement, measurement, measurement - not obvious location, location, location. I think 8-bit guy knew this as well, as it wasn't an accident he reached out to you.
I think you sell yourself too short. You're very skilled at what you do and I love how you explain what it is you're doing. Keep up the great work and thank you for your videos!
It seems this hobbyist is the star of the show! The others involved in this project are heaping praise on Adrian for all the help he provided. I am looking forward to the final result.
Brilliant video Adrian... As you have observed.. Its the 2nd set of eyes...
Love the fact that its all my favourite retro UA-cam R's collaborating on this project..
Also love the fact that it will be ATX compatible..
When it gets to production.. There will definitely be a sale here!!
I love it when my favorite youtubers work together.
Happy to see this, watched *TexElec* discuss you helping him out on this and was hoping for an update from you. Thanks for posting.
Cheers,
Congrats on getting to the bottom of the Commander X-16 issues!!!
I'm sure you have really helped get that project going again!!
Leave it to Adrian’s excitement to make your day! God bless you
Glad to hear they've got you on the case! Can't wait to watch this later.
I must say I'm very impressed with what you've been able to do to help with this......Fantastic stuff!
Wow, great job Adrian! I’m very excited about this project and would like to get an X16 someday. You really proved the “second set of eyes” effect.
Hopefully Adrian will get an acknowledgment silkscreened on the final production boards.
He's already thanked in the user guide 😊
also congratulations! just finished this video, this is a very considerable achievement! you deserve a one-off golden board with all fixes applied!
This is such a beautiful piece of hardware. I'm overjoyed to finally see a fully-assembled example! Everyone did a fantastic job!
Glad to know you're helping with this project! Happy New Year!
I read on X16 facebook group that you helped the developers; a BIG THANK YOU! YOU ARE THE BEST!!
Well done Adrian. Happy to see this project moving forward.
I love that you helped on this project! So much looking forward seeing this project happen!
Well I confess, I'd never heard of it, so curiosity made me Google for it before watching your video. What an interesting project and I'm thrilled to see you are involved in it. A great job troubleshooting this. It's hard enough when you know how it's meant to work and perhaps have a working computer to compare against. I imagine it must be really hard when you have only one of 2 that exists. You are very modest about your skills really, I don't think many people have the skills, patience and tenacity to work out these problems and fix them. Awesome job Adrian and a nice relaxing video to hear you talking about it.
Hey Adrian! Long time watcher, first time (I think) commenter. Got to say I find your debugging/repair videos the most interesting and I learn the most from them - and I'm so glad you got to do the video on the X16. As soon as I saw Kevin's comment that you had diagnosed the issue I was keen to see a video with the details of what you'd found. So thanks for the time and effort you put into these! Cheers.
I was wondering what's happenned to the project, I'm happy that it's still going :3
Such an awesome video. I sure has been wondering about whatever happened to the Commander X16. Now I know :) and This was indeed great news, aspects and valuable information. Thanks Adrian for making this stunning video.
That's awesome work. It certainly seems like troubleshooting a design that's never worked would be a much more daunting task than troubleshooting the average production board that's failed.
It is so cool to see one of my favorite UA-camrs troubleshooting a computer that originally was the brain child of one of my favorite UA-camrs. I would love to see more of this!
Awesome work! It's always good to get a fresh set of eyes across a problem, and you definitely sell yourself short when it comes to troubleshooting these kinds of machines.
Anyway, hopefully they can make some good progress on the project now this hurdle is cleared. Can't wait to see what kind of games people can make for it!
Adrian, you are too modest. You are an excellent diagnostician.
I was wondering if you would do a video. Glad you did!
This video shows that good troubleshooting skills will allow you to become an expert in most fields you apply them to. Well done Adrian!
I look forward to your videos every week, thank you for the awesome content!
Love the perspective you bring to the X16 in this Video! Thanks!
Very enjoyable 41 minutes. I had wondered where this project stood. Great to hear another enthusiasts opinion on this device.
And while I have seen this channel floating around. This is my first time checking it out. Nice place to start.
Waiting for the X16 and the MEGA65 so thank you for getting it working sir!
Adrian: I want to be “hobbyist” like you when grow up. I am only 50 now. Greetings from Karachi, Pakistan.
heeey asian viewer! im from malaysia
@@araigumakiruno Glade to hear that. Greetings from Karachi, Pakistan.
I'm 55. When I grow up I want to be a train driver :)
Congratulations on becoming an X16 Commando.
"Just a hobbyist" ...
A very experienced hobbyist.
He shouldn't be so modest. He is very talented and an inspiration.
Ditto on the inspiration bit!!
@@Dreams_Of_Lavender a uneducated one as well
Here me out Bec tbh it’s not fair you just winged a project that is years in the making David would have researched anything for weeks before doing anything on it ... just shows the passion ain’t there and tbh you not knowing that this was David’s creation and he is the first maker of the board and concept shows a lot ... wish you would have delved into the origins and history of why David wanted to build such a board and pc if you would understand that I think it would be better
Thank you for this and all the other great videos! You've taught me a lot and it is a pleasure to watch your videos. Keep up that great work!
As far as I'm concerned, you're a hero. I have often run into problems where I just needed a different set of eyeballs on it. And it was almost better NOT to tell the person what my suspicions were as to the problem. Outstanding work on your part and also, Kudos to the entire team, because this is going to be a great project. All good wishes!
So exciting to see some more progress on this!
It is so easy to go down the rabbit-hole and that is where that second pair of eyes is invaluable. Well done Mr B!
Sometimes when things comes mad as this. Not knowing all the details on what were tried to troubleshoot it is a blessing.
Thanks for sharing it!
Adrian, thanks for donating your time to the Commander X16. I'm so excited about this project!!!
Hey great to see this project making progress and got checked and helped by my favorite retro computer channel - didn’t notice Kevin’s video though! Great work Adrian! Cheers and a happy new year to you and all your viewers!
Loved this video Adrian! I've been reliving my youth by watching retro PET/C64 & Amiga videos!
I wish I could find a car mechanic who is "not an expert" in a similar way... I love your videos, even if I don't understand everything:) Love from Hungary!
Oh heck yeah! I was hoping you would post a video about this.
Thanks for your help to get this beast working these are exiting times indeed.
You are awesome Adrian. Watched the other video and so excited to watch your video. Well done Sir.
Actually one of the earliest VERA prototypes was installed in a C64 cartridge and David Murry showed us it running on the c64.
I am so proud of Master Adrian Po! We bow to your troubleshooting abilities! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Really enjoyed the video! I can relate about the correct timing, voltage etc with my own projects! I wasn't aware that some chips need to be synced with the system clock, thanks for pointing that out! Great job on the issue hunting, a no assumption strategy often works best!
I'm continuously fascinated by how much Adrian knows about vintage technology, but not just from a historical perspective. It's knowing how the vintage tech works at such fundamental levels. Right down to even understanding what the pins do and how the ICs function. I love being educated about it.
cool! Great Job! waiting here for the command X16 to come out.
I used to be an auto mechanic but your videos having me repairing TVs and computers
I'm glad you made the BBC micro comparison, it was all I could think about while you were describing the circuit. And if you want to do some 6502 assembly and diagnostics, just fire up a BEEB it has a 3 pass in-line assembler built right into the basic interpreter and 6522 "user port" that could easily be used to program a EEPROM. The BEEB was also the machine that hosted the ARM development system so it has some pedigree!:-)
I think you’ve more than earned yourself a spot in one of the first production run Easter Eggs.
Thank you, it really does help me see the whole picture and your animated hands made the explanations all work :D
The notion that we might actually get the Commander 16 is pretty exciting. Most "new" retro machines don't tend to get too far, and the few that do make it to production tend to be pretty niche in terms of what they can do to justify their cost (the Gigatron and PE6502 leap to mind there). Many thanks for your help in keeping this excellent project afloat, hoping to have one of my own someday!
Further, yeah, now that you mention it I absolutely want that FPGA graphics board in my IIGS.
This is proper garden shed computing and its fascinating to watch. can't wait to see the finished project
goodness used to design TTL circuits back in the day, timing, and transition states is the bomb on this, yep the bbc micro is a classic example of how to manage timing transitions etc, you have to be real careful, which it sounds like you have, so kudos. Kevin must be in a big forest full of many trees, extra eye are always welcome great video Adrian. they need to reward you in gummy bears! Blinken lights would help (like the gigatron?)
I know nothing about computers. I barely know how to watch UA-cam on my Chromebook.
This video helped me understand so much about the circuitry of the stuff that I am working to trying to build.
I am mentally disabled, 66 years old and in an assisted living facility. My only workspace is on the seat of my walker next to my bed.
Its weird 10/12 years ago I used to see Kevin almost every day at work.
Great Vid! amazing how doing your own thing can get you past the other guy's hangups/misdiagnosis, even when you know less about their design. I guess it shows how much "builder bias" piles up as they're designing the board.
Very good example of the team effort method! Sharing knowledge and experience so everyone improves.
As for the bad IC socket issue, long ago I learned to never scrimp on cheap sockets. Working at an electronics manufacturer in the '70s & '80s we bought enough Texas Instruments chips that they practically gave us free sockets. But after having long sessions troubleshooting and replacing intermittent sockets, we re-spec'd the board to use machined contact sockets. They cost appreciably more, but much less in the long run, never had a socket related problem again.
I love the case mockup on their homepage, looking forward to this.
Awesome! So cool you could help out on the Commander X16!
It's such a cool project and I learned so much when worked on the iOS port of the Commander X16 emulator. It's my favored retro inspired computer and can't wait until it's available. Youre genius guys, really!
I had no idea you were working with a project like this, that's really cool
When a supposed "amateur" (with a bag of skills larger than many supposed "experts") has way, way more energy and enthusiasm than the ideator of the project itself. You would expect the 8-but guy to be announcing this actual huge milestone (well, his last statement about the project was a laconic "the second revision board does not know and we don't know why") and instead, nothing. Well, I guess he's too busy to follow his own project as a leader, oh well :D
On a brighter note, Adam: yours is one of the most entertaining and educative channels about retrocomputing and your skills seem to be ever growing. Well done, you are an inspiration.
I think this may be a bit unfair. I think when you work on a pet project for such a long time that you're really excited about, it can be extremely disheartening when you run into debugging roadblocks like this that have you running in circles. Such an emotional gut punch would explain David's terse statement and apparent lack of enthusiasm. I'm positive that David, et. al. have great appreciation for Adrian's assistance and a renewed excitement to get this computer produced and out the door.
As a communications Tech for 35 years, troubleshooting very complicated systems, a 2nd set of eyes on the trouble was golden and a must some times, it was like with 2 people working on the same problem just made it easy to figure out , plus it was alot of fun coming up with the fix. Always thought it was interesting how every tech troubleshoots differently, tho we were all trained the same. Guess its just how the brain works.
Brilliant video Adrian. Whilst I think you are being uneccesarily humble, you raise some really good points about troubleshooting that I think actually are skills that are being lost in the IT industry these days. There's nothing wrong with asking for advice, for a new set of eyes. Remember, the person asking you is absolutley counting on you having a different perspective, and the fact you are not utterly embedded in the issue is an advantage. Furthermore? I have lost count on the times where stopping and walking away from an issue has actually been the best thing. It gives your brain a chance to reset, and whilst you will no doubt go back over ground again, I always find that fresh, uncluttered reexamination derives results.
Great video Adrian. It's great to see all the 8bit computers being worked on at the moment by the community. Between this and the Mega65 and some others, it's an exciting time.
Sounds good. Thank you for your efforts Adrian.
Love it! I can't wait to see this live.
You are a wizard, and you haven't even needed to use deoxit. ;)
It's such a cool project, thanks for the in-depth look!
When I was in college, we had a digital design class; the final project was to design and implement a 4 bit processor (using all discrete logic gates!!) that could execute a shift-and-add algorithm to do a multiply. TIMING was THE problem; synchronizing between the ALU, the memory, and the 3rd part (whose name I forget) - anyway the group that got the closest could get any 2 of the subsystems talking, but not all 3 at once. TIMING, as they say, is EVERYTHING :)
very good camera angle at the end! officially approved!
Really exciting project. Time to learn 6502 assembler.
Thanks Adrian, I love your short videos :)
Great video Adrian and what a design from Kevin. This is the sort of thing back in the day I would have got involved in. Unfortunately these days I spend too long watching youtube I get nothing done. :). At work I often walk away for 30 minutes then go back and withing minutes fix something that I have spent days trying to get working, sometime you get too involved and stuck down a rabbit hole.